(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Pikachu315111]

You know what I really want this route trainer to have on his team? What's that? Did you say the exact same pokemon you can encounter in the tall grass three steps away, except two levels higher? Yes, that's correct!

Seriously, the roster is so big these days, how is this still a design decision they are making. It's so crushingly boring.

How about this: Every normal trainer will have their team randomized each playthrough. They'll obviously use Trainer Classes to determine a scope as some train a certain kind of Pokemon (and it'll be com mons, obviously no Legendaries), but overall every time you face say a Swimmer you don't know what Water-type they'll send out.

 

[Magnus0]

You know what I really want this route trainer to have on his team? What's that? Did you say the exact same pokemon you can encounter in the tall grass three steps away, except two levels higher? Yes, that's correct!

Seriously, the roster is so big these days, how is this still a design decision they are making. It's so crushingly boring.

This is something I really like about HGSS. A lot of random trainers use cool and rare Pokemon, even Pokemon that aren't available until much later. The trainers on route 34 are a good example imo. Brandon has a Mareep, which the player is most likely familiar with, but then he also has a Snubbull, which is a 1% encounter. Gina uses a Bulbasaur, which isn't even available at all until post game. There's also Ian, who has a Mankey and a Diglett. These are pretty common and regular Pokemon, but by placing them on this early route, the player can look up their location in the pokedex and plan out their team in advance. I know I really wanted to catch a Vulpix in my first playthrough, because the firebreather in Union Cave had one.

Btw, why is Samuel's Rattata 5 levels lower than the Rattata's in the grass around him? The level HGSS curve is so frustrating, because the devs aren't even trying.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

This is something I really like about HGSS. A lot of random trainers use cool and rare Pokemon, even Pokemon that aren't available until much later. The trainers on route 34 are a good example imo. Brandon has a Mareep, which the player is most likely familiar with, but then he also has a Snubbull, which is a 1% encounter. Gina uses a Bulbasaur, which isn't even available at all until post game. There's also Ian, who has a Mankey and a Diglett. These are pretty common and regular Pokemon, but by placing them on this early route, the player can look up their location in the pokedex and plan out their team in advance. I know I really wanted to catch a Vulpix in my first playthrough, because the firebreather in Union Cave had one.

I mostly agree, it is a bit boring when route trainers only use Pokémon that are found on the same route as the trainer in question. But they shouldn’t go too far in the other direction either. I think the trainer with a Bulbasaur on Johto Route 34 that you mentioned is a good example of where they did just that. When can you get a Bulbasaur of your own in the Johto games (without trading)? In G/S/C, not at all! You have to transfer it from R/B/Y. In HG/SS, it is post-game only. Even worse, it is only available after you have beaten Red! And yet, there’s an early-game trainer who has one on her team. That’s almost an insult to the player.

I have another example which is similar, but not quite as bad. In the Hoenn games, there are several trainers at the Dewford Gym who uses Meditite. When is the first opportunity for you to catch a Meditite of your own? At Mt. Pyre, which is only accessible after the 6th Gym! Not quite as bad as the Bulbasaur, but still fairly annoying.

I think they need to find a middle ground of some point, so that trainers don’t just use Pokémon that are available on the same route, but where they at the same time don’t use Pokémon that are only available to the player much later (or sometimes not available at all, like with Bulbasaur in G/S/C).

…

With that said, on to other things. I have an annoyance of my own that I wanted to share. I have never really liked the concept of roaming legendaries, at least not before Gen 6. While I have always found them annoying to hunt down and catch, there is one certain game pair where it is especially frustrating. A certain pair of remakes. And for once, it is not HG/SS. No, the games I am talking about are FR/LG.

I recently got to experience the pain of hunting down a roamer in FR/LG. In the past, I never bothered to catch Entei in LeafGreen or HG/SS because I didn’t need it. I wasn’t planning on using it for battles or anything in either of the games, and I already had it registered in my Pokédex. I had traded over one from Colosseum in Gen 3, and obtained it through transfer from Gen 3 as well as through the shiny event in Gen 4. But now, I decided to finally get around to catching it. I caught it in SS a few days ago, and yesterday I caught it in LG as well. I wanted to share my experiences with it and since it will mostly be negative, this thread feels like the right place for it.

To start with, what makes it so annoying to catch roamers in FR/LG? Many things. The most notable is the way you have to track them down with the Pokédex. Unlike in most other games, the Pokédex does not “save” at the point in the dex where you last checked a Pokémon. So in FR/LG, if you go to the Pokédex, scroll down to the roamer, then exit, and then enter again, you have to scroll all the way down to the roamer again. Every single time. It is just so inconvenient and frustrating compared to how it is done in other games. You have to do a long scroll down to the legendary beasts if using National Mode. Fortunately, Entei has a slight edge over the others as it goes faster to scroll down to it in A to Z mode since its name starts with an E, which means that it is quite high up there. Sadly, the same can’t be done for Raikou and Suicune since they are much further down.

I really like FR/LG on the whole, and I think the Pokédex in them is great too, generally. It has many great and fun features, including some that aren’t even present in most other Pokédexes. But it is without any doubt the worst in the series when it comes to tracking down roamers. Unfortunately, the problems don’t end there. When you get into battle with the roamer, there’s Roar. Raikou and Entei knows it, but Suicune doesn’t since they kept its level-up movepool from Crystal (this almost makes me wish I had picked Charmander as my starter instead of Bulbasaur). If the roamer uses Roar to cancel the battle against you in Gen 3, it will be lost forever afterwards. Which apparently isn’t supposed to happen, it is a glitch. This does fortunately not happen in Gen 4, if they use Roar there, they will still be roaming around afterwards. Either way, that is another thing you need to be prepared for when hunting Raikou or Entei in FR/LG.

In order to avoid this, I had made preparations. On Emerald, I had trained two Smeargle just so I could catch Entei. One with Mean Look/Taunt/Spore/Baton Pass, the second with False Swipe/Taunt/Spore/Recover, both holding a Leftovers. I had also trained them until their Speed stat would be enough to always outspeed Entei. In retrospect, something like Swords Dance or Screech might have been better on the second one since I never used Recover, but it still worked. Anyway, I traded them over to LG, then I was ready to hunt down Entei.

After an initial painful 20 minutes or so of hunting, I finally managed to get on the same route as Entei and get into battle with it. It started out well, but it turned out that my strategy to Mean Look, Taunt, Spore and then Baton Pass wasn’t as foolproof as I had thought. Because, as I learned the hard way, Taunt only lasts 2(!) turns in Gen 3, and unlike in the later generations, it doesn’t give out a message when it is over. So my first encounter with Entei ended with it Roaring me away because I hadn’t re-taunted it, meaning that it would be lost forever if I had saved afterwards. Which I didn’t.

Instead, I reset the game and tried again. Fortunately, my second attempt went much easier and better. I managed to get on the same Route as Entei immediately, which was nice. And now that I had learned that Taunt only lasts 2 turns (I looked it up on Bulbapedia), I made sure to renew its Taunt every other turn unless I had a free chance to put it to sleep with Spore instead. While it was taunted and sleeping, I was slowly bringing its HP down to 1 with False Swipe. It took many hits, the Smeargle I had trained for this was pretty weak and far from optimal, which is why I think Swords Dance or Screech might have been better since I never used Recover. I also had to renew Spore and Taunt a lot, I got close to running out of PP many times. Thankfully, I had lots of Ethers and Elixirs on the game, so renewing the PP was no problem. Entei also has Pressure which wasted my PP pretty quickly. Finally, once it was at 1 HP, sleeping and taunted, I could start trying to catch the beast. It only took 7 Timer Balls, which was fewer than I had expected. I didn’t really get the opportunity to throw that many balls because I had to do so many other things during the battle instead.

I am very happy to have caught it, now I won’t ever have to go through the pain of doing that again. Unless I decide to replay FR/LG in the future for some random reason. But I don’t think I will.

Here are some pictures of my Entei, because why not?

Pictures

It has a useless Nature and garbage IVs (which is due to yet another glitch), but it doesn’t matter because I am not planning to use it for anything, I just wanted to catch it for the sake of actually having caught it.

So that’s it for roamers in FR/LG. In comparison, how is it to hunt down roamers in other games? I decided to make a short list. It is generally a lot easier in the other games than in FR/LG.

G/S/C: Not sure if I ever tried it in these games back in the day, but I believe the Pokédex “saves” at the last Pokémon you viewed here? Which should make it somewhat manageable at least.
R/S/E: I believe the Pokédex “saves” here as well, but even if it doesn’t, you can instantly scroll to the bottom to find the info for the Lati@s.
D/P/P: The best games for tracking down roamers because you can instantly see any changes to the roamer location on the touch screen with the Marking Map. There’s no need to open any menu which makes the whole thing very efficient and convenient. The only negative is that you cannot see the location of a specific roamer if you have multiple roamers out at the same time. But that’s not really a problem if you ask me. I consider D/P/P to be the best games for tracking down roamers.
HG/SS: The roamers can be seen on the PokéGear Map, it even lets you see exactly where a specific roamer is located. In the past, I used to think this was painful compared to D/P/P, but I have changed my mind about it. While it is slightly less convenient compared to D/P/P since you need to open a menu, it is a pleasure compared to the pain it is in FR/LG.
B/W: Pretty simple, you can immediately see if Tornadus/Thundurus are on the same route as you because they cause stormy weather. They also only appear in specific locations depending on the time of day. Bulbapedia had the full info, find it below:

Unlike other generations, the roaming Pokémon's location varies depending on the time of day. At night, between midnight and morning, the Pokémon can only be encountered in Routes 12, 13, 14 and 15, in the morning it can only be encountered in Routes 2, 3 and 18, during the daytime it can only be encountered in Routes 4, 5 and 16, in the evening it can only be encountered in Routes 6, 7 and 8 and at night before midnight it can only be encountered in Routes 9, 10 and 11.

X/Y: Mostly fine because the Pokédex “saves” here as well, but the best thing is that you don’t need to actually fight the bird while it is roaming. You just have to get into battle with it 11 times, then it will be a regular legendary encounter at the Sea Spirit’s Den. So that’s really good.
S/S (Crown Tundra): This is my favorite way of how they have handled roamers in the series. You have to hunt them down, but they are visible on the overworld, there’s no need to use the Pokédex or a map or something. And once you find them, you get to battle them regularly instead of being forced to prevent them from running away. It was really great, and if they choose continue with more roamers in the future, I hope they will build upon this way of utilizing them instead of how they were handled in past games and generations.

I am very happy that there were no roaming legendaries in B2/W2, OR/AS or the Gen 7 games. I am especially happy when it comes to how they did in OR/AS, where they changed the Lati@s from roaming in the originals into becoming a gift Pokémon instead. I really hope future remakes follow in their footsteps.

That’s my big rant on roaming legendaries. I still need to catch Entei in HG, which will happen relatively soon, though I am going to do some other things in the game first. Then I’ll be done with roaming legendaries for the time being, and hopefully forever.

 

[Magnus0]

I mostly agree, it is a bit boring when route trainers only use Pokémon that are found on the same route as the trainer in question. But they shouldn’t go too far in the other direction either. I think the trainer with a Bulbasaur on Johto Route 34 that you mentioned is a good example of where they did just that. When can you get a Bulbasaur of your own in the Johto games (without trading)? In G/S/C, not at all! You have to transfer it from R/B/Y. In HG/SS, it is post-game only. Even worse, it is only available after you have beaten Red! And yet, there’s an early-game trainer who has one on her team. That’s almost an insult to the player.

I actually like that random trainers use starter Pokemon, because it seems more realistic to me. The player character isn't the center of the universe, you know. I also think it feels more rewarding when you beat a trainer that had the same opportunity as you (getting a starter) compared to a trainer that only uses common Pokemon.

 

[mertyville]

Minus Emerald, the Roamer glitch is makes catching Roaming Pokemon pointless unless you want to fill your dex.
Sadly I refuse to restart Emerald since completing stuff in it took so much time. And even an 0 iv in almost everything Timid Latias does a decent job for the Battle Tower. At least for me. Without a Lati I can't see how to finish the win streak there.

As for catching the beast in FRLG, I went never bothered using the Pokedex. Just went into the building that leads to veridian forest and exited it going just through one line with repel on over and over until I get an encounter.
I softresetted a Timid Suicune which I transfered as trade bait once I got a better iv Suicune in Colosseum. Softresetting in Colosseum is much more annoying in my opinion than hunting roamers, because at least you can safe up a Master Ball or something.
Meanwhile encountering in Colosseum is determining it's nature.
You can't wait until you get the Master Ball since by then it's nature won't change from your first encounter.

 

[Ironmage]

A complete edge case that happens to bother me at this moment:

There is a very short list of moves that will automatically thaw the user out if they are frozen. Explosion is not on that list.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

I actually like that random trainers use starter Pokemon, because it seems more realistic to me. The player character isn't the center of the universe, you know. I also think it feels more rewarding when you beat a trainer that had the same opportunity as you (getting a starter) compared to a trainer that only uses common Pokemon.

That's fair. I agree that starters should be used more by regular trainers and that they should be less "elusive" in the games. As it is now, they are mostly limited to the player, rivals and other "special" trainers, and they are rarely found in the wild. I do not approve of that. But at the same time, I don't think that random NPCs should be using a starter from another region, one which you can't get yourself until much later in the game (or not get at all). At least they should not be doing that early on in the games. I think it would have been fine if this Bulbasaur trainer appeared during the post-game instead. Or if she just had a Chikorita instead of a Bulbasaur. But hey, it's Johto, so of course they can't focus too much on showcasing the actual Johto Pokémon.

As for the player character being the center of the universe... I guess they are? It is a game after all, and it is you, the player, who should get the main focus.

Those are my opinions at least. Feel free to disagree.

Minus Emerald, the Roamer glitch is makes catching Roaming Pokemon pointless unless you want to fill your dex.
Sadly I refuse to restart Emerald since completing stuff in it took so much time. And even an 0 iv in almost everything Timid Latias does a decent job for the Battle Tower. At least for me. Without a Lati I can't see how to finish the win streak there.

As for catching the beast in FRLG, I went never bothered using the Pokedex. Just went into the building that leads to veridian forest and exited it going just through one line with repel on over and over until I get an encounter.
I softresetted a Timid Suicune which I transfered as trade bait once I got a better iv Suicune in Colosseum. Softresetting in Colosseum is much more annoying in my opinion than hunting roamers, because at least you can safe up a Master Ball or something.
Meanwhile encountering in Colosseum is determining it's nature.
You can't wait until you get the Master Ball since by then it's nature won't change from your first encounter.

Or if you are like me and want to complete everything just for the sake of having completed it. I can't imagine the pain of having to play through FR/LG three times to get all roamers for the Pokédex, the mere thought of it makes me very happy that I have Colosseum.
I would also love to get a Lati@s with a useful Nature and good IVs in Gen 3, but there's no way I'm ever restarting my Emerald. And I'm too lazy to learn Gen 3 RNG anyway. Plus, the only thing I really have left to get at the Frontier is the Gold Symbol from the Factory, where a Lati@s of my own won't help.

That's a good strategy, but it requires you to have a Pokémon at level 49 or below as your lead (my Smeargle is at level 61). If I only had been in possession a Master Ball on Gen 3, it would have been so much easier to get Entei... but now it is done, so no need to dwell on it anymore.
I'm not sure if I agree about it being more annoying in Colosseum. I remember that I SRed for "good" Suicune and Raikou during my third playthrough of Colosseum many years ago, but I don't recall finding it that annoying. I just bought a ton of Scents and used them until I had unlocked the Nature of the beast, then kept on trying again and again until I had a useful Nature and "good" IVs (in reality, they were probably quite bad). I don't remember them being all that hard to catch either tbh.

 

[mertyville]

Or if you are like me and want to complete everything just for the sake of having completed it. I can't imagine the pain of having to play through FR/LG three times to get all roamers for the Pokédex, the mere thought of it makes me very happy that I have Colosseum.
I would also love to get a Lati@s with a useful Nature and good IVs in Gen 3, but there's no way I'm ever restarting my Emerald. And I'm too lazy to learn Gen 3 RNG anyway. Plus, the only thing I really have left to get at the Frontier is the Gold Symbol from the Factory, where a Lati@s of my own won't help.

That's a good strategy, but it requires you to have a Pokémon at level 49 or below as your lead (my Smeargle is at level 61). If I only had been in possession a Master Ball on Gen 3, it would have been so much easier to get Entei... but now it is done, so no need to dwell on it anymore.
I'm not sure if I agree about it being more annoying in Colosseum. I remember that I SRed for "good" Suicune and Raikou during my third playthrough of Colosseum many years ago, but I don't recall finding it that annoying. I just bought a ton of Scents and used them until I had unlocked the Nature of the beast, then kept on trying again and again until I had a useful Nature and "good" IVs (in reality, they were probably quite bad). I don't remember them being all that hard to catch either tbh.

About Emerald I feel the same which is why I used a worse Latias from Saphire instead.

I softresetted the dogs myself, and it took forever from starting the game, getting to the right trainer, beating every unnessecary Pokemon and weakening the doggo without killing it.
The worst to softreset personally was Entei. Never got Modest Nature and kept all the ones with Naughty because they had good ivs.
Raikou with Naive Nature. I caught two decent Suicune. One Bold and the other Modest. They replaced my Timid Suicune from LG.

I use the Master Ball Glitch in Emerald to catch majority of the legendaries in LG. And use the Master Ball you are given immediately for the beast since the roamers are triggered after giving both Ruby and Saphire.

 

[Pikachu315111]

A complete edge case that happens to bother me at this moment:

There is a very short list of moves that will automatically thaw the user out if they are frozen. Explosion is not on that list.

Well first let's note Explosion isn't a Fire-type move but a Normal-type. This is an important thing to note as, unlike how we typically think of what an explosion is (heat, concussive force, shrapnel, smoke, possibly toxic chemicals) the Move which Pokemon are able to do seems to only be the concussive force and pure/element-less energy. So what usually melts the ice entombing the Pokemon isn't there.

"Well, it's a still massive amount of concussive force being releases". True, if the energy being expelled is all from within the Pokemon then that alone would either cause the ice to crack apart and possibly melt from passive heat the energy would cause being used. Therefore, since it doesn't, there must be some other factors to Explosion causing it not to work. I have two thoughts:

1. Since the expelling of energy is not from an opening but all over the Pokemon's body, not to mention it's just a release of energy which doesn't cause permanent damage to the Pokemon aside from knocking it out (but this could because it used up all its accessible energy), the Pokemon may require some space around it. Many reasons/excuses why this could be, but the point is since the ice is directly surrounding the Pokemon so much so it's preventing it from moving (I would also say cuts them off from the air but I'm assuming the magical ice somehow lets anyone it in breathe through it; we know they're not in a state of suspended animation as our Pokemon can hear our orders) means the energy can't be properly released. Reasons/Excuses: The Pokemon first has to gather the energy on its surface to assure even release all over and/or doesn't permanently hurt itself, to build up the energy the Pokemon slightly increases in size which it can't do if entombed in ice, it tries to release the energy but since it's entombed the energy nullifies and/or is absorbed back into the Pokemon.
   
   
2. It's not fully internal energy being used but also the Pokemon requires absorption of surrounding environmental energy. Once again, a number of reasons/excuses why a Pokemon would need to do that, but if that's the case then once again being covered in ice would prevent the Pokemon from doing that. Reasons/Excuses: The Pokemon simply doesn't have enough internal energy for the massive amount of damage it wants to do, in order to hit all targets and/or do minimal damage to the surrounding area need the environmental energy to familiarize itself quickly.

 

[Sonikku A]

I actually like that random trainers use starter Pokemon, because it seems more realistic to me. The player character isn't the center of the universe, you know. I also think it feels more rewarding when you beat a trainer that had the same opportunity as you (getting a starter) compared to a trainer that only uses common Pokemon.

Honestly this is only an issue cuz of other starters not being accessible at all
Legit, where do the professors get them?

 

[Siggu]

Honestly this is only an issue cuz of other starters not being accessible at all
Legit, where do the professors get them?

I'm surprised the whole "Where do Professors get groups of three starters from?" thing hasn't even been given a mention (even if as a joke) so far in the games so far.

It could be as simple as showing pairs of fully-evolved starters in the breeding building, or something like that, but nope...

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I actually like that random trainers use starter Pokemon, because it seems more realistic to me. The player character isn't the center of the universe, you know. I also think it feels more rewarding when you beat a trainer that had the same opportunity as you (getting a starter) compared to a trainer that only uses common Pokemon.

Absolutely agree. It breaks the immersion for me that I (and my rival) are seemingly literally the only people in the region who managed to get these Pokemon. I can buy them being highly rare species but not THAT rare.

The Kanto games and DPP do this really well imo; lots of random NPCs have (sometimes more than one) starter Pokemon. They're rare but not nonexistent; there's even a guy in Kanto's Victory Road who has, iirc, all three starters. And these are likely not Pokedex holders, just your average joes.

I'm surprised the whole "Where do Professors get groups of three starters from?" thing hasn't even been given a mention (even if as a joke) so far in the games so far.

It could be as simple as showing pairs of fully-evolved starters in the breeding building, or something like that, but nope...

In GS, Elm mentions that the starters are all rare Pokemon "that we recently found"; Crystal amends this to say that he personally caught them. RSE and DPP both very lightly imply that the starters are valuable research specimens as well. In RBY Oak just says "I used to have lots of Pokemon, now I just have these three left" as if they're just any old Pokemon he caught.

What's interesting is that the games never really identify the starters as "the starters"; they're your first Pokemon, but they're not identified as the ironclad "starter Pokemon of this region". Lots of NPCs mention getting other Pokemon as their first one. USUM is the only game where the trio in that region are explicitly identified as "the starter Pokemon new trainers in the Alola region must choose from", as if it's some sort of special tradition, and even in that instance other trainers who did the Island Challenge don't all have Alola starters of their own.

 

[NaturalTropius]

USUM is the only game where the trio in that region are explicitly identified as "the starter Pokemon new trainers in the Alola region must choose from", as if it's some sort of special tradition, and even in that instance other trainers who did the Island Challenge don't all have Alola starters of their own.

Actually, even that's a bit inaccurate. Those are the ones *Hala* gives out, not the one that *every* Kahuna does. Nanu is shown giving new challengers a choice of three different Alolan Meowth.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Actually, even that's a bit inaccurate. Those are the ones *Hala* gives out, not the one that *every* Kahuna does. Nanu is shown giving new challengers a choice of three different Alolan Meowth.

You're right, I'd completely forgotten that bit. Ages since I played USUM, should give it another go sometime.

I was going by Kukui's quotes on Bulbapedia; the below line is actually from Masters EX:

"These three are the Pokémon that new Trainers in the Alola region can choose from to be their first partner Pokémon."

Which sort of implies that those three are the standard set, but that might just be an overgenerous reading.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Nanu is shown giving new challengers a choice of three different Alolan Meowth.

Well let's not take that instance as hard proof all Kahuna give out their own Starters. While a neat idea (doubt GF will ever do it, though would be interesting for a fan game to think of doing something like that), that entire scene was meant to be a joke on how lazy/nonchalant Nanu is. After the kid picks a Meowth and leaves Nanu even complains about the kid not wanting to start on "Hala's island". The fact Nanu specifically mentioned Melemele Island being the starting point, and the description of the Meowth he gives subtly assignment each the Grass/Fire/Water Type triangle, I think is enough to prove Rowlet, Litten, & Popplio as the traditional Starters. You're supposed to start on Melemele where Hala gives you the Alolan Starter, hence why the Island Challenge starts there.

Now, as we've seen, the kid was determined to get a Starter from Nanu and he's likely not the only kid who wanted to get their Starter from the Kahuna of their island. So the question is do all the Kahuna have access to getting a Rowlet, Litten, & Popplio? If they do, it's obviously something they'd have to at least make a request to be sent over to them to give. Nanu, being Nanu, likely doesn't want to deal with the paperwork but still has to perform his Kahuna duty if the kid insists on it so just gives the kid one of his Alolan Meowth. Afterall, at least to Nanu, as long as its a Pokemon the trainer starts out with it counts as a "Starter Pokemon" to them. Meanwhile Olivia and now Hapu would probably care a little bit more to make sure any trainer that comes to them starts off on the right track (or at the very least actually offer a choice).

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I don't know if this is true across all canons, but in some canons it's implied that starters are raised in a special breeding ground until they are ready to be used by a Trainer. The anime canon made this implied as we see Mudkip and Froakie being raised in special breeding places.

But in general it does seem like the starter choices are specifically selected by the professors for the most part, except maybe in Alola. They're pretty rare sights in their own regions, and Oak specifically mentions in HGSS that Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle are rare sights in Kanto. Elm mentions he and his cohorts found Chikorita, Cyndaquil, and Totodile, and vice versa, and Birch and Rowan had the Poke Balls for the respective starters in their bags, and in Unova and Kalos the starters were specifically gifts from Juniper/Sycamore respectively.

In general it would seem at the very least the starter Pokemon are uncommon Pokemon that the Professors came across and found during their research excursions. The big exception though is Galar, since Leon gives you the starters and not the professor, which raises the question of how Leon of all people got ahold of them to begin with. Interestingly, Steven in HGSS also has the Hoenn starters to give out.

Granted, as a side note to the availability of starters outside of the lab and in the hands of selected Trainers in-game, there was the case of Kalos in the Friend Safari post-game where the Kalos starters can actually be caught in the wild if you managed to find a friend code that has them, and Kanto/Sinnoh have normal chaps use the starter mons. Galar also has that one Breeder in the Wild Area who has all three of them.

They're pretty vague about how the starters are actually found in the games, but it does seem like they're just very uncommon, possibly endangered species, that are used as starters specifically by the professors as special research subjects, perhaps, that they also distribute to new Trainers who end up visiting them. It's interesting to think about.

 

[DreamPrince]

I don't know if this is true across all canons, but in some canons it's implied that starters are raised in a special breeding ground until they are ready to be used by a Trainer. The anime canon made this implied as we see Mudkip and Froakie being raised in special breeding places.

But in general it does seem like the starter choices are specifically selected by the professors for the most part, except maybe in Alola. They're pretty rare sights in their own regions, and Oak specifically mentions in HGSS that Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle are rare sights in Kanto. Elm mentions he and his cohorts found Chikorita, Cyndaquil, and Totodile, and vice versa, and Birch and Rowan had the Poke Balls for the respective starters in their bags, and in Unova and Kalos the starters were specifically gifts from Juniper/Sycamore respectively.

In general it would seem at the very least the starter Pokemon are uncommon Pokemon that the Professors came across and found during their research excursions. The big exception though is Galar, since Leon gives you the starters and not the professor, which raises the question of how Leon of all people got ahold of them to begin with. Interestingly, Steven in HGSS also has the Hoenn starters to give out.

Granted, as a side note to the availability of starters outside of the lab and in the hands of selected Trainers in-game, there was the case of Kalos in the Friend Safari post-game where the Kalos starters can actually be caught in the wild if you managed to find a friend code that has them, and Kanto/Sinnoh have normal chaps use the starter mons. Galar also has that one Breeder in the Wild Area who has all three of them.

They're pretty vague about how the starters are actually found in the games, but it does seem like they're just very uncommon, possibly endangered species, that are used as starters specifically by the professors as special research subjects, perhaps, that they also distribute to new Trainers who end up visiting them. It's interesting to think about.

Adding on to this, I believe that RS Anime had an episode that reveals that starters are bred and raised differently, specifically on farms before being sent to a Professor, in this episode it was a Mudkip farm.

 

[Pikachu315111]

DreamPrince , you may want to re-read you above message and correct something in it. I think you meant Mudkip farm.

Starter Origins:
Though let us not forget the cases where in Alola, using the Island Search feature, you can find different region Starters in the wild. Also in Gen VI, specifically ORAS, we had Birch in the post game somehow having Starters from other regions to let you pick one of with the other two mysteriously disappearing. And jump forward to Galar we have Mustard who gives out the Gen I Starters as well as there seemingly being a never ending supply of Starters Evos in the Dynamax Adventures. And now we have Pokemon Legends coming out revealing at least Johto, Unova, and Alola have had their Starter selections decided for decades while Sinnoh you can catch what would become thier Starters still in the wild.

A problem we have here is what is considered canon and what is just there for gameplay purposes to give the player a rare Pokemon. Sometimes its obvious what isn't canon like the Island Search, Friend Safari, Birch in ORAS post game, etc. but other times they don't seem to make a distinction like with the Dynamax Adventure. Then there is the canon ones which goes against normal conventions like Mustard. And who knows if Legends will address this, like would we see the process of how Turtwig, Chimchar, and Piplup were chosen to be Sinnoh's Starters? If so, would that have an implication on the wild ones we've seen. Would those be secluded locations that are made into sanctuaries for the purpose of raising the Starters?

They're pretty vague about how the starters are actually found in the games, but it does seem like they're just very uncommon, possibly endangered species, that are used as starters specifically by the professors as special research subjects, perhaps, that they also distribute to new Trainers who end up visiting them. It's interesting to think about.

That all said, I do agree with the above quote. Well, not that they're endangered, but more that they are special breeds (think designer breeds of dogs & cats) that have been hand selected to help with Pokemon research by being given to Professor assistants, new Pokemon trainers, and other individuals for either raising or believing they would have the keen sense to give a trainer they trust the Starter.

 

[The Mind Electric]

In general it would seem at the very least the starter Pokemon are uncommon Pokemon that the Professors came across and found during their research excursions. The big exception though is Galar, since Leon gives you the starters and not the professor, which raises the question of how Leon of all people got ahold of them to begin with. Interestingly, Steven in HGSS also has the Hoenn starters to give out.

It seems likely to me, if the starters are rare Pokémon that only professors with a deep understanding of how the critters work can consistently find, that the professors would trust champions with tenure and respect among the people of a region with some starters of their own to give away. Based on what I remember of Steven's dialogue from HG/SS, I don't think those games take place in a world where Wallace replaces Steven, so Steven's probably been champion of Hoenn for a long time by the time he gets starters to give away. I can't speak for Leon because I haven't played those games yet, but it's kind of hard to not know that Leon is the unbeatable Galar champion, in case we haven't mentioned it yet, so he could have gotten his in a similar way.

Makes sense to me. Champions who keep the title for a long time are probably pretty wise people, so it follows that they can probably be trusted to identify the right people to receive starters.

 

[DreamPrince]

DreamPrince , you may want to re-read you above message and correct something in it. I think you meant Mudkip farm.

Starter Origins:
Though let us not forget the cases where in Alola, using the Island Search feature, you can find different region Starters in the wild. Also in Gen VI, specifically ORAS, we had Birch in the post game somehow having Starters from other regions to let you pick one of with the other two mysteriously disappearing. And jump forward to Galar we have Mustard who gives out the Gen I Starters as well as there seemingly being a never ending supply of Starters Evos in the Dynamax Adventures. And now we have Pokemon Legends coming out revealing at least Johto, Unova, and Alola have had their Starter selections decided for decades while Sinnoh you can catch what would become thier Starters still in the wild.

A problem we have here is what is considered canon and what is just there for gameplay purposes to give the player a rare Pokemon. Sometimes its obvious what isn't canon like the Island Search, Friend Safari, Birch in ORAS post game, etc. but other times they don't seem to make a distinction like with the Dynamax Adventure. Then there is the canon ones which goes against normal conventions like Mustard. And who knows if Legends will address this, like would we see the process of how Turtwig, Chimchar, and Piplup were chosen to be Sinnoh's Starters? If so, would that have an implication on the wild ones we've seen. Would those be secluded locations that are made into sanctuaries for the purpose of raising the Starters?



That all said, I do agree with the above quote. Well, not that they're endangered, but more that they are special breeds (think designer breeds of dogs & cats) that have been hand selected to help with Pokemon research by being given to Professor assistants, new Pokemon trainers, and other individuals for either raising or believing they would have the keen sense to give a trainer they trust the Starter.

Ooops. That was a big blunder. Dang autocorrect.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

But in general it does seem like the starter choices are specifically selected by the professors for the most part, except maybe in Alola. They're pretty rare sights in their own regions, and Oak specifically mentions in HGSS that Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle are rare sights in Kanto.

Well, except for when they're not. Weirdly they seemed to decide after the first generation that starters should be much more exclusive (the Sinnoh games are a notable exception due to the Pokedex requirements)

Kanto: numerous NPCs use one or more starters
Johto: literally no one aside from the rival uses a starter (apart from Cal who is debatable as there's a chance some players will never see him), though many NPCs in both Kanto and Johto still do use Kanto starters. Notably, unlike later generations, Johto starters don't even appear in the Battle Tower
Hoenn: literally no one aside from the rival uses a starter
Sinnoh: several NPCs, including Gym Leaders and Elite Four, use a starter
Unova: no NPCs other than Hugh and the opposite-gender character in B2W2 use a starter
Kalos: no NPCs other than the rivals use a starter
Alola: iirc no NPCs other than Hau and Kukui use a starter (though as I said it's been a while since I played so happy to be corrected)
Galar: iirc no NPCs other than Hop and Leon use a starter (again, happy to be corrected)

In general it would seem at the very least the starter Pokemon are uncommon Pokemon that the Professors came across and found during their research excursions. The big exception though is Galar, since Leon gives you the starters and not the professor, which raises the question of how Leon of all people got ahold of them to begin with. Interestingly, Steven in HGSS also has the Hoenn starters to give out.

As others have said, it seems fairly likely that champions can be entrusted to give out starters. Special note is made in SwSh of Leon taking an interest in the player and Hop and intervening to endorse them; champions, much like professors, are likely to be able to spot talent and to be trusted to act responsibly in that regard.

That said, Steven having the Hoenn starters is probably more about him being the only Hoenn character to appear in HGSS imo - it feels incredibly out of place. They obviously wanted to make the Hoenn starters available somehow. It's not too much of a leap to imagine, say, Phoebe or Flannery appearing instead and performing the same role.

Also in Gen VI, specifically ORAS, we had Birch in the post game somehow having Starters from other regions to let you pick one of with the other two mysteriously disappearing.

Much as in Emerald, this doesn't bother me. It doesn't seem at all a stretch that professors would entrust each other with starters from other regions. If Birch isn't qualified to receive a set of coveted and rare starter Pokemon, who is?

 

[Pikachu315111]

Alola: iirc no NPCs other than Hau and Kukui use a starter (though as I said it's been a while since I played so happy to be corrected)
Galar: iirc no NPCs other than Hop and Leon use a starter (again, happy to be corrected)

While not any random trainer, there are two notable NPCs which use their region Starters:

• Alola: In USUM, Teacher Emily in the Trainer School on Route 1 uses the Starter strong against yours as a "final test".
• Galar: In the Wild Area you can find Pokemon Breeder Chloe every once in a while (multiple times if you dedicate looking for her) who uses the Galar Starters, evolving them at certain points after progressing through the game (though oddly waits till after becoming Champion to fully evolve them; heck, she doesn't evolve them to their second stage until defeating Kabu even though by the time you face Milo yours would have likely evolved! If you're trying to remember, it would be around Bea/Allister that your Starter would have or be close to fully evolving).

 

[R_N]

in contrast to Legends Arceus' box art, which i really like, the BDSP boxarts are just bad

The "mainline" pokemon games have got to get their graphic design together this is ridiculous

 

[The Mind Electric]

in contrast to Legends Arceus' box art, which i really like, the BDSP boxarts are just bad

The "mainline" pokemon games have got to get their graphic design together this is ridiculous

First thing I thought of.

 

[mertyville]

Something that bothered me a little is that Necrozma can fuse with Solgaleo and Lunala.

Kyurem fusing with Reshiram or Zekrom, that kinda makes sense since they were once Pokemon together. But how does Necrozma absorbing Solgaleo or Lunala specifically make sense? Why can it turn ultra when holding a Z-Crystal while being fused and not without it? Nothing in terms of lore explains it. Eternatus is responsable directly to Dynamax so you would expect it to be able to have a unique form of it's own. Also why does Coloress have 2 devices to fuse Necrozma and not just one that does both? It's very confusing. I honestly don't mind it ripping off Kyurem if it was well reasoned. It feels like the game designers thought it was cool and put it in the game without any thought.