I would personally try to fit sludge wave on the scarf set, as it is very strong against tapu fini, koko and clef(can OHKO koko and almost OHKO the others, and obviously specs can OHKO all of them), and it can OHKO rilla on the switch which can take you out with glide from high percentages otherwise. It also gets an OHKO on lele most of the time while shadow ball just misses out which can be relevant. Trick and destiny bond might be too many somewhat situational moves on the same set, so you might want to swap one of them out for sludge wavety! i really like the idea of a scarf gengar getting surprise kills on pult, however i dislike the sub set because of the abundance of pult making it hard for it to do its thing. i also think that choice specs can function as a really cool wallbreaker. if you dont mind, could you please let me know how you feel abt these sets?
Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Gengar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
-
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NP 3 attacks is the most efficient for me. Gengar is thoroughly outclassed by Dragapult in this gen so you have to make use of what gengar has over Dragapult: far greater power, nasty plot, poison stab for fairies, wide movepool. Nasty plot sets take full advantage of these traits and make gengar a potent weapon against slower, bulkier teams.
The restriction of a choice item isn't my favourite as scarf gengar can only just about OHKO Dragapult and scarf Kartana, it doesn't really do much else as the most common speed boosting threats don't fear a scarf gengar all that much. Specs is decent but Dragapult is just better at it, just due to the completely different support required to use, which factors in greater speed and U-turn, although Dragapult is comically weak compared to gengar.
Gengar is at its most effective when it uses substitute shenaniganry with either nasty plot or a stall breaker set with taunt/wisp/both, taking advantage of forced switches. These sets suffer Dragapult even more, but at least they are effective partners for it and can be absolutely aggravating if there is no enemy Dragapult in sight
The restriction of a choice item isn't my favourite as scarf gengar can only just about OHKO Dragapult and scarf Kartana, it doesn't really do much else as the most common speed boosting threats don't fear a scarf gengar all that much. Specs is decent but Dragapult is just better at it, just due to the completely different support required to use, which factors in greater speed and U-turn, although Dragapult is comically weak compared to gengar.
Gengar is at its most effective when it uses substitute shenaniganry with either nasty plot or a stall breaker set with taunt/wisp/both, taking advantage of forced switches. These sets suffer Dragapult even more, but at least they are effective partners for it and can be absolutely aggravating if there is no enemy Dragapult in sight
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Also, I want to mention nasty plot as a potential move on scarf gengar. yes, nasty plot. scarf gengar is nothing more than decent against offense, but most of the time you face balance teams. with trick+nasty plot, you have immense freedom. you can choose to be a revenge "killer"/speed control until it's time to cripple a wall, and then you can become extremely threatening against the defensive core. scarf np gengar can actually be a decent set (of course with dual stab, cut with that focus blast bs I ain't clicking that move). you can catch a pult off guard but also be actually useful somewhere else.ty! i really like the idea of a scarf gengar getting surprise kills on pult, however i dislike the sub set because of the abundance of pult making it hard for it to do its thing. i also think that choice specs can function as a really cool wallbreaker. if you dont mind, could you please let me know how you feel abt these sets?
Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Gengar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
Nice role compression strategy! It also can catch the opponent off guard too since they might think they are facing Scarf Gengar until suddenly you trick their Blissey or something and all of a sudden they have a terrifying wallbreaker suddenly spurring into action lol.
-----
On a separate note, I'd like to inquire about the viability of Gravity and how it is best used.
i've actually used scarf np gengar earlier this gen, i might try it out now. anyway, thank you!
I haven't experimented with gravity but the easiest way to use it is probably with a powerful ground type or if you're running nasty plot tornadus-t and you don't want to miss. the best gravity strategy i've seen is gravity gigalith + cb excadrill sand core, you just click earthquake and things die. with all of the grass spam flying around, building such a team is very difficult, but it's probably doable somehow.
another potential user is landorus-t itself (what can't he do?), more specifically sd lando, as it can use it to ease prediction and pummel would-be-counters like corviknight. smack down accomplishes similar feats but it doesn't ease prediction nearly as much.
gravity sinergyzes well with spikes stacking or even sticky web, but hdb has to be taken into account
all in all, it doesn't sound more than a hard to pull off gimmick to me, but maybe more experienced players who tried one of these strategies know better.
This is a good summary ^^
If you want to use Gravity, ground type teams in monotype sometimes use it- that's probably the only real use of it in any tier that I can recall (except for gravity+hypnosis shenanigans in doubles, which I believe is banned in DOU now)
Try to replace sub with taunt and choose focus sash as an item. Taunt will makes blissey useless and sash is the item that can make you win 1vs1 againts pult at full hp.
Ok, these people telling you Gravity isn't worth it, they are smart. They mean well.
But there are somethings in this world that you can only understand with a stupid unga bunga brain.
https://pokepast.es/4cc42ba35d8f86e1
This is the legendary JT sand; Blunder didn't create it but he popularized it on YouTube. This is definitely a gimmick team but it is probably the best full gravity team someone could hope to make in gen 8 OU (maybe with some slight variation, this was designed for like Dec 2020-Jan 2021 meta but it still works, mostly). The basis is that under gravity in sand, choice band excadrill is unstoppable, which is mostly true.
The moveset for Excadrill is somewhat malleable. The pokepaste has EQ/Iron head/Aerial Ace/High Horsepower. Aerial Ace is basically exclusively for buzzwole. The other move to consider is poison jab (almost exclusive for tangrowth in sand). Ideally you want all 5 of moves but something has to give. If you cut either aerial ace or poison jab, buzzwole or tangrowth respectively will be almost impossible to deal with, you are gonna need to hope to toxic them and wear them down a little to even have a chance. The other option is to cut EQ for just high horsepower, this is mostly ok but missing that 5% will end you sometimes.
Rillaboom is also a big issue but can be managed with proper prediction/careful play, especially with high horsepower on Exca, since even then it will not want to switch in much.
Outside of this specific team, I have seen gravity in two different circumstances in OU:
1) On lando to force out corviknight or keep rocks up against it. It is debatable whether this is better than smack down, I would generally say smack down is better unless you have a specific set of team mates that could take advantage of gravity and you are not particularly weak to it.
2) on Teleport Blissey/Porygon2, to set up for team mates (you can kind of think of it like a future sight of sorts), but I think this is kinda inconsistent.
EDIT: In case this wasn't clear, I also think this team is gimmicky/not consistent, but I think this is as good as you will get for a full gravity team. (also I do think it's really fun ladder team if you don't mind the bad matchups with grass types).
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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-558713
I think you need an actual visual from tour play to help answer this cause the answers above are very vague without context or not helpful. Would not recommend using the team posted above as its very outdated and 6-0d by Rillaboom/Kartana even if you'll manage some wins on ladder.
From my personal first-hand experience Bharath_TheBest vs Lopunny Kicks (now Punny), which was an SM OU game. It was in SPL and went 1000 turns, which resultet into an auto-tie. But there could very well be longer tour games in smogon history.
Edit: ABR vs Tele with 1287 turns was the longest played game, but BTB and Punny are close enough for that spot as well.
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In my personal opinion, no. Blissey’s horrible defense stat basically means that every EV counts, and the more you divvy away from it, the more you’re vulnerable to physical chip damage, which is especially worrisome against U-turn Pokemon like Dragapult or Tapu Koko that Blissey may be typically pressed to check, and more readily hurting its value as a Special wall and making it all the easier to overwhelm by other common threats in the long term.
Moreover, having a Pokemon to alleviate pressure against Focus Blast specifically is not really too tall an order either, especially with Blissey to easily take off the difference against its other attacks.
I agree with ausma's post above, but if you still want to be able to do this, you'd be much better off running an EV spread of 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD bold rather than taking the EVs out of defense, as Blissey's HP is so ridiculously high anyway that the % difference in physical bulk is smaller while still obtaining the same overall special bulk. (You can run 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD too, but 8 HP / 248 SpD just stops the sliver of a chance of two absolute-max rolls screwing you over.)
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Hey- I’m building a stall, and I’m using Chansey over Blissey (which is its own topic but I have good Knock absorbers and good hazard control so I feel like I can afford to drop Blissey in this case) but I’d like the difference between 4 HP / 252+ Def / 252 SpD and 248 HP / 252+ Def / 8 SpD explained in terms of overall bulk, if that’s ok.
Hello everyone!
I am quite new to competitive Pokemon, but put in some grind on the OU ladder. I was mostly using teams build by other players, but I really wanted to build something on my own and came up with this bulky offense team built around dancing Volcarona and Dragonite. I am not sure if I am right at this thread, but I don't really know where to go. I just want someone to take a look and tell me, if I am missing something or if the team looks solid enough to reach new heights on the ladder. My success with this team is quite ok, but people on low ladder always struggle against setup. Anyway, lets dive into it!
THE CORE:
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 16 SpA / 112 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Roost
- Quiver Dance
EVs outspeed up to
at +1 and OHKO 
with Flamethrower at +0. Rest is dumped into HP and Def while having a Calm Nature to maximize the SpD boost of Quiver Dance. Moves are pretty standard, going for roost to keep 
healthy to abuse the incredible bulk after some Quiver Dances.
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 40 Def / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dual Wingbeat
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
The EVs OHKO a full HP invested with Dual Wingbeat while outspeeding everything up to 
at +1. Rest is dumped into HP and Def to maximize bulk with Multiscale. Thanks to Multiscale you can almost guarantee a turn to setup when you bring it in safely. As said above I think it's not optimal to build a bulky set without recovery, so I'm going for Roost over additional coverage. Checks 
with EQ.
SPEED CONTROL AND REVENGE KILLERS:
Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Trick
Misty Terrain protects and 
from toxic. Moonblast OHKOs 
which is still faster than both our setups sweepers at +1. Trick helps to break stall teams. EVs standard, Ice Beam to threaten the ever present 
.
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
This boi comes in to revenge kill mainly
, and 
as long as the sash is up. Since this needs hazards to be removed, I added NP and Focus Blast to give 
another option to be useful in case I don't manage to Defog or there is nothing to revenge kill.
DEFENSIVE BACKBONE & HAZARD CONTROL:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
Pretty standard set. Rips holes into teams, breaks
and eats fairy and ice moves thrown at . EVs outspeed the standard 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe set. Sets rocks.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Defog
Not much to say here. Role compression.
All in all the team is fun to use and I think it covers many common threats, but I really appreciate any type of advice. Feel free to ask questions!
Thanks in advance and best wishes!
I am quite new to competitive Pokemon, but put in some grind on the OU ladder. I was mostly using teams build by other players, but I really wanted to build something on my own and came up with this bulky offense team built around dancing Volcarona and Dragonite. I am not sure if I am right at this thread, but I don't really know where to go. I just want someone to take a look and tell me, if I am missing something or if the team looks solid enough to reach new heights on the ladder. My success with this team is quite ok, but people on low ladder always struggle against setup. Anyway, lets dive into it!
THE CORE:
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 16 SpA / 112 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Roost
- Quiver Dance
EVs outspeed up to
at +1 and OHKO with Flamethrower at +0. Rest is dumped into HP and Def while having a Calm Nature to maximize the SpD boost of Quiver Dance. Moves are pretty standard, going for roost to keep healthy to abuse the incredible bulk after some Quiver Dances.Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 40 Def / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dual Wingbeat
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
The EVs OHKO a full HP invested
with Dual Wingbeat while outspeeding everything up to at +1. Rest is dumped into HP and Def to maximize bulk with Multiscale. Thanks to Multiscale you can almost guarantee a turn to setup when you bring it in safely. As said above I think it's not optimal to build a bulky set without recovery, so I'm going for Roost over additional coverage. Checks with EQ.SPEED CONTROL AND REVENGE KILLERS:
Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Trick
Misty Terrain protects
and from toxic. Moonblast OHKOs which is still faster than both our setups sweepers at +1. Trick helps to break stall teams. EVs standard, Ice Beam to threaten the ever present .Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
This boi comes in to revenge kill mainly
, and as long as the sash is up. Since this needs hazards to be removed, I added NP and Focus Blast to give another option to be useful in case I don't manage to Defog or there is nothing to revenge kill. DEFENSIVE BACKBONE & HAZARD CONTROL:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
Pretty standard set. Rips holes into teams, breaks
and eats fairy and ice moves thrown at . EVs outspeed the standard 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe set. Sets rocks.Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Defog
Not much to say here. Role compression.
All in all the team is fun to use and I think it covers many common threats, but I really appreciate any type of advice. Feel free to ask questions!
Thanks in advance and best wishes!
Hello everyone!
I am quite new to competitive Pokemon, but put in some grind on the OU ladder. I was mostly using teams build by other players, but I really wanted to build something on my own and came up with this bulky offense team built around dancing Volcarona and Dragonite. I am not sure if I am right at this thread, but I don't really know where to go. I just want someone to take a look and tell me, if I am missing something or if the team looks solid enough to reach new heights on the ladder. My success with this team is quite ok, but people on low ladder always struggle against setup. Anyway, lets dive into it!
THE CORE:
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 16 SpA / 112 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Roost
- Quiver Dance
EVs outspeed up to
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 40 Def / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dual Wingbeat
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
The EVs OHKO a full HP invested
SPEED CONTROL AND REVENGE KILLERS:
Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Trick
Misty Terrain protects
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
This boi comes in to revenge kill mainly
DEFENSIVE BACKBONE & HAZARD CONTROL:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
Pretty standard set. Rips holes into teams, breaks
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Defog
Not much to say here. Role compression.
All in all the team is fun to use and I think it covers many common threats, but I really appreciate any type of advice. Feel free to ask questions!
Thanks in advance and best wishes!
Hello,
your team doesn't look bad but I would not use Focus Sash on Gengar, since your team lacks an immediate wallbreaker, I would use Choice Specs instead. You can go with bulky Defog Dragonite as well to support your team and give up Defog on Lando-T to make it Stone Edge to threaten Landorus-T, Tornadus-T, and Zapdos, but in overall the team doesn't look that bad, If you want to get that team rated however you can ask in the Rate my Team subforum, or if you want to post teams which are more of a fun approach you can post them in the SWSH OU Bazaar.
But this thread especially is moreso used for answering questions around OU such as metagame trends, Pokemon sets, and any other similar kinds of questions. Hope that helped! :)
Funniest tour game ever in your opinion?
My favorite is the one with that funny shadow tag team in gen 7ou
My favorite is the one with that funny shadow tag team in gen 7ou
Sirfetch’d @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- First Impression
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
Sirfetch’d @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Grassy Glide
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance
First is band. Second is when paired with Rilla/Bulu.
Helmet and Leftovers are better in most circumstances from a teambuilding perspective outside of using a specific hard stall.
Which is better between corviknight & skarmory in this set? :
Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Body Press
- Roost
- Spikes
Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Body Press
- Roost
- Spikes
it depends on the team, because; you cant just compare them two and say corv is better or something.
These two while they cover same things would be different depending on teams. Corviknight can function as a pivot with U-Turn and remove hazards with defog, and can actually invest defense into special defense to better take hits from Tapu Lele and Dragapult. Skarmory on the other hand is able to provide Spikes for teams and can also phaze set up mons with Whirlwind. At the end of the day it all comes down to the team and which one fits in better.
Thank you for answering, I'd try to build standard balance/bulky offense team, these is the other 5 Mons :
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Future Sight
- Teleport
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- U-turn
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic
I can't decide between skarmory or corviknight in the last slot
Easily Corviknight goes along here with the momentum provided in the team and gives the team a defogger, and helps checks offensive grasses, weavile, and Urshifu-R by punishing with Rocky Helmet.
If corvi, should I go brave bird or u-turn? (body press is a must for max def)
and skarm can also learn defog but not u-turn, also can deal bigger body press damage with its better def
U-Turn is fine here to add more momentum to the other U-Turn users, also you can actually run a spread of 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD that way Corviknight can take hits from Tapu Lele and Dragapult this also relieves pressure of having Heatran and Slowking from being overwhelmed.