Choice Scarf Magnezone < Magneton ?

froggy25

froggy25

Bye RNGmon
is a Researcher Alumnus
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/magnezone

With the suggested EV spread 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe and Hasty / Naive / Timid nature; Magnezone gets these stats :
359 SpA ; 351 speed with the Scarf.

Now, a Choice Scarf Magneton :

• with 26 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spe and Modest / Mild / Rash Nature gets this stats :
372 SpA ; 351 speed with the Scarf.

• with 54 Atk / 252 SpA / 204 Spe and Hasty / Naive / Timid nature outspeeds Jolly Dugtrio / Sceptile / etc :
339 SpA ; 373 speed with the Scarf

• with 30 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe and Hasty / Naive / Timid nature outspeeds Jolly Weavile :
339 SpA ; 384 speed with the Scarf

Thanks to his better speed, I think that Magneton is a better choice than Magnezone for the Choice Scarf set.
His defenses are weaker, but he's faster, and some Pokémon gets U-Turn in order to help him to switch in, so it's not a problem imo.

I hope I don't make a mistake by posting this thread in Stark Mountain.
 
Heh, that's interesting.

Nevertheless, I'd still use Magnezone even with the slightly lower SpA, because Magnezone's Defenses are a lot higher...
 
Yea, thats the only thing that concerned me with this. I mean, Magnezone can survive a few special attacks even without a defensive nature.
 
You have to take into account Magnezone's far better defenses (extra base 20 in each defensive stat), as it lets him switch in far easier, and an extra base 10 Attack for going boom. While that boasts some more SpA it's inferior in every stat besides that and speed.
 
Magneton is a better Choice Scarfer because if you use Naive / Hasty / Timid you can outrun Dugtrio with Scarf, which Magnezone can not.
 
NFE at the moment, their should be a magneton analersys, like syther and scizor.

also there is the surprise factor, if you use magneton it is odvious that you are useing scarf (or are stuipd/have an amazing new moveset) with zone it is quite a surprise.
 
Magnezone is superior to Magneton in every way except speed.


But that 10 base speed can let it outspeed crap like Metagross. I'd prefer a Choice Specs Magneton. It lets it massacure the steels it traps.
 
lol,Blue harvest and me think alike. I use a Choice Specs magnezone in ALL MY TEAMS. makes dents in anything. I fany of you ever rated my team you see the average damages it does to Cress/Bliss :D
 
Due to its shithouse movepool ScarfTon is pretty much confined to Explosion, Flash Cannon, Thunderbolt and Hidden Power. For that reason I'd prefer to drop its speed to 249 to outrun just Dugtrio for more Attack EVs, so it can at least do something when it goes Boom. Your call though. You should mention Dugtrio imo.
 
Nu uh.

ScarfZone is a deadly beast.

The thing is, Electric/Steel is the most defensive type in the game, with 12 resistances. Those resistances are wasted on Magneton, who is a glass cannon. Magnezone has the highest Sp.Atk of any Electric pokemon, and with a Scarf and Naive he can reach 360, enough for most base 100 pokemon.

Magnezone@Choice Scarf
Flash Cannon
Thunderbolt
HP [Ice]
Explosion
Nature: Naive
Evs: 52Atk/206Sp.Atk/252Spd

The above is what i use, and he can outspeed the 600 Dragons, and most other pokemon that underestimate him (Medicham, Infernape, Porygon-Z) and take them down, but he can take hits while doing it as well, which makes him my choice.
 
Deco said:
Heh, that's interesting.

Nevertheless, I'd still use Magnezone even with the slightly lower SpA, because Magnezone's Defenses are a lot higher...
Click to expand...
Err, Magnezone has superior SpA...

I wouldn't use a Choice Scarf Magnezone purely for the fact that it doesn't even outspeed Base 115 Pokes. Plus, it has a poor movepool, so it doesn't hit a whole lot Super-Effective unlike certain Choice Scarfers, and doesn't have ridiculously powerful STAB attacks, so I'd just use a bulkier set, with Subsitute to make up for the poor speed.
 
When I made the Peer Edit for Magnezone, I almost wanted to ditch Scarf Magnezone altogether. The only real benefits:

* Getting the drop on Base 110s or less
* With some Speed EV investment, he has a chance of outspeeding Starmie
* You have a very (and I mean very) slim chance of outspeeding Base 115s. If and ONLY IF they failed a bit on their Speed IV and you passed with flying colors (in other words, if Azelf had roughly 27 IV and Magnezone had 31).

Still, I wouldn't use Scarf Magnezone nor Magneton, because both have better things to do. Magneton may be an NFE, but still has (usually) the same job as Magnezone, and Magnezone has much superior defenses to take advantage of the 12 resistances (you could pull 13 with Magnet Rise, or immunity, whatever).

EDIT: Some more info. Anti, the same argument could go toward Magnezone can outspeed Adamant Dugtrio, or Modest Alakazam. It is not common, yes, but it's still possible. Neutral 125s are also outspeed IIRC by Scarf Magnezone.

Speaking of Magnezone... I probably should look at that again. <_<;
 
There's more situations where Magnazone is still the better option. I still don't think Magneton has any uses over it's father, Magnazone.

Dugtrio, who? This is DP.

Weavile won't be getting a KO on Magnazone anyway.
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
Err, Magnezone has superior SpA...

I wouldn't use a Choice Scarf Magnezone purely for the fact that it doesn't even outspeed Base 115 Pokes. Plus, it has a poor movepool, so it doesn't hit a whole lot Super-Effective unlike certain Choice Scarfers, and doesn't have ridiculously powerful STAB attacks, so I'd just use a bulkier set, with Subsitute to make up for the poor speed.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but the fact that, when you see a Magneton, you already know the opponent is using it just for the Speed. But wait, Magneton has just a paltry 70 base Speed, why would someone want that crappy speed again?

Someone who want to slap a Scarf on him and try to surprise someone!

Oh wait, that's the only use for Magneton. There goes the element of surprise.
 
Choice Scarf Magnezone has won me more battles than anything else, because no one expects it.

It kills Salamence and Gyarados for me, because they almost never switch out of something they can easily kill... It gets revenge kills on things like Infernape that have taken a little Life Orb damage or something... It just surprises everyone and gets kills that way.

I run TBolt/HP Ice/Explosion/Sleep Talk. He absorbs sleep for me too. No one expects Sleep Talked Explosion, right?

I lead with him; he traps lead Bronzongs and Skarmories... I just have to watch out for the Bronzongs that pack EQ. ._.
 
Taylor said:
There's more situations where Magnazone is still the better option. I still don't think Magneton has any uses over it's father, Magnazone.

Dugtrio, who? This is DP.

Weavile won't be getting a KO on Magnazone anyway.
Click to expand...
If they had banned all pre-DP Pokemon, the metagame would suck.

Huh? Gyarados who? This is DP.
 
RiptideFugitive said:
I run TBolt/HP Ice/Explosion/Sleep Talk. He absorbs sleep for me too. No one expects Sleep Talked Explosion, right?
Click to expand...

Right. Not even you, lol.

And you posted it in a way it made me like the idea. I'll try it someday (I just need to stop with my Magnet Rise addiction ._.).

And people really lead with Skarmory? That's news to me.
 
I run a

Magneton @ salac Berry
Magnet Pull: Timid
4 Defense, 252 Speed, 252 Special Attack
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Endure
Toxic

this was my magneton in advance to counter Dugtrio's that trap me.
 
RiptideFugitive said:
It gets revenge kills on things like Infernape that have taken a little Life Orb damage or something... It just surprises everyone and gets kills that way.
Click to expand...

I don't really think that's much of a point for the scarfzone cause. A smart player would smell something's up when you switch magnezone into infernape, who packs two STAB'ed moves that are both SE vs 'zone, you'd be a fool to switch that slow thing into infernape unless it was scarf'ed.
 
Fierce Deity said:
Those resistances are wasted on Magneton, who is a glass cannon.
Click to expand...
No. 50 / 95 / 70 w/ 12 resistances is not a glass cannon. 360 Speed is stupid. At least drop it to 351.

Colonel M said:
When I made the Peer Edit for Magnezone, I almost wanted to ditch Scarf Magnezone altogether. The only real benefits:

* Getting the drop on Base 110s or less
* With some Speed EV investment, he has a chance of outspeeding Starmie
* You have a very (and I mean very) slim chance of outspeeding Base 115s. If and ONLY IF they failed a bit on their Speed IV and you passed with flying colors (in other words, if Azelf had roughly 27 IV and Magnezone had 31).

Still, I wouldn't use Scarf Magnezone nor Magneton, because both have better things to do. Magneton may be an NFE, but still has (usually) the same job as Magnezone, and Magnezone has much superior defenses to take advantage of the 12 resistances (you could pull 13 with Magnet Rise, or immunity, whatever).

EDIT: Some more info. Anti, the same argument could go toward Magnezone can outspeed Adamant Dugtrio, or Modest Alakazam. It is not common, yes, but it's still possible. Neutral 125s are also outspeed IIRC by Scarf Magnezone.

Speaking of Magnezone... I probably should look at that again. <_<;
Click to expand...
You argue against yourself in your own post. "Some more info. Colonol M, the same arguement could go toward Magnezone can out speed Modest Azelf."

Mario with Lasers said:
Oh wait, that's the only use for Magneton. There goes the element of surprise.
Click to expand...
It's not about the element of suprise. It's about Dugtrio not being able to kick you in the proverbial steel balls.
 
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