See my comment above about speed. They have the opportunity to fix some pretty big issues here. I think the remake has justified its existence, though the extent of the fixes remains to be seen.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I'll ignore the blasphemous takes on this page just so we don't go off-topic.
For those saying stuff like this, and therefore on-topic:
The two biggest complaints about Plat are the slow engine and the HM issues all but forcing people to have a Bibarel with them at all times.
The engine isn't even the same and it's clearly faster. It's not like SwSh had a coffee break every time you clicked Close Combat on a Blissey either.
If they add a portable PC, then field moves are guaranteed to not be problems regardless of how they implement them.
If you want to add DP problems, the biggest one was the Dex and that's another non-factor now.
BDSP directly addresses issues that plagued Gen 4 as a whole. I can only describe this post as hating. The only significant, non-subjective (Artstyle is entirely subjective unless it causes gameplay issues.) loss known so far is the Battle Frontier.
Speaking of which...
I can see the future. It is bright. BDSP sits at the top with Platinum as the undisputed GOATs of the classic main series games.
SInnoh Gang neva lost. (Except against Cynthia.)
For those saying stuff like this, and therefore on-topic:
The two biggest complaints about Plat are the slow engine and the HM issues all but forcing people to have a Bibarel with them at all times.
The engine isn't even the same and it's clearly faster. It's not like SwSh had a coffee break every time you clicked Close Combat on a Blissey either.
If they add a portable PC, then field moves are guaranteed to not be problems regardless of how they implement them.
If you want to add DP problems, the biggest one was the Dex and that's another non-factor now.
BDSP directly addresses issues that plagued Gen 4 as a whole. I can only describe this post as hating. The only significant, non-subjective (Artstyle is entirely subjective unless it causes gameplay issues.) loss known so far is the Battle Frontier.
Speaking of which...
I can see the future. It is bright. BDSP sits at the top with Platinum as the undisputed GOATs of the classic main series games.
SInnoh Gang neva lost. (Except against Cynthia.)
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!
But legit, the fact that DP is slower than RS, has worse mon and type distribution than RS (partially thanks to Cross evos, as much as I like them), garbage mechanics in honey and the great marsh, and spammed HMs (though Day Night cycles returning is nice), and then having the audacity of pulling an RGBY where Girantina is just sitting randomly in a cave, pitiful mon rep in some gyms that rival's Gen 2s idiocity (rip Fire), AND removing Emerald's Frontier makes me wonder how the hell the region wasn't criticized on first reception like RS was. Heck, Cynthia if not for her team is literally a Steven clone story and personality wise (to the point the leaked protos literally use him as a placeholder for her). Heck, Cyrus barely has a motive in DP
And in terms of fixing for the 3rd region, Plat mainly fixed Girantina's entrance massively Ala Distortion World (still one of the best in mainline), Cyrus getting more motives, added Battle Frontier, and the dex getting an overhaul. Sadly despite speed fixes, it's still slower than Gen 1-3, and HM spam is still pitiful
Even without Frontier, I'm gonna say it. BDSP will literally be better than OG Gen 4 + Plat to play through. I'm sorry, but Gen 4 was riding off of the coattails of Gen 2 nostalgia, and HGSS sealed that
I mean, if the FPS is really that bothering, there are better options than forking 60 dollars...
...the game speed being slow is not a framerate issue. It was legit choice
GF can very easily make HP bars drain fast, surf speed fast. The code for HP is literally reused from Gen 2/3
Worth is inherently subjective, and even if you specifically may not find BDSP worth the purchase, that doesn't mean other people think the same. There's a difference between saying a game should never have happened because it's not something you like and simply realizing it's not for you and simply not bothering with the purchase. Plus, do keep in mind there is an audience of new kids who started with SM or SwSh who probably will get into these games and this will be their first time experiencing Sinnoh so that's immediately an audience that such a product is viable for. If someone finds worth in BDSP, that's their choice in the end. In the end, the only person who decides whether it's worth forking money over for a product is the person themselves, and that's entirely their choice to make whether they find a product worth it or not.
Take Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee for instance. I don't like the direction that game takes, and it has nothing that appeals to me in particular. Does that mean I sit here whining that it should never have existed or that it's not worth forking money over for? No. I understood that product wasn't for me, and decided I didn't want to spend 60 on a product that has nothing that appeals to me, and I simply never bought it, moved on to find something else worth my time, and frankly, I probably never will buy it. If other people found it worth paying for? Then that's on them. In the end, a product's worth is entirely in the eyes of a consumer, and if someone considers such a product like BDSP to be worth it, but someone else doesn't, then it's on them to make the decision of whether they consider it worth buying.
It's a good thing BDSP and Legends manifested in two separate products that are in two totally different directions. Both of them cater specifically to different crowds and they know that, and you are not obligated to buy both. If Legends appeals to you but BDSP does not, then just buy Legends and don't bother with BDSP. Likewise if the reverse holds true. I may not like games like Let's Go, but that doesn't mean other people can't enjoy it if they felt it was worth it. If they like it, then that's their choice in the end. Nothing to do with me. I'll just buy things that I think are worth my purchase and not bother with something that I don't think is worth my time. In the end, when it comes down to it, I'm the only one who gets to decide whether something is worth it for me, and likewise another person should decide on their own whether a product is worth it or not.
Your arguments are meaningless in the face of this.
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!
But legit, the fact that DP is slower than RS, has worse mon and type distribution than RS (partially thanks to Cross evos, as much as I like them), garbage mechanics in honey and the great marsh, and spammed HMs (though Day Night cycles returning is nice), and then having the audacity of pulling an RGBY where Girantina is just sitting randomly in a cave, pitiful mon rep in some gyms that rival's Gen 2s idiocity (rip Fire), AND removing Emerald's Frontier makes me wonder how the hell the region wasn't criticized on first reception like RS was. Heck, Cynthia if not for her team is literally a Steven clone story and personality wise (to the point the leaked protos literally use him as a placeholder for her). Heck, Cyrus barely has a motive in DP
And in terms of fixing for the 3rd region, Plat mainly fixed Girantina's entrance massively Ala Distortion World (still one of the best in mainline), Cyrus getting more motives, added Battle Frontier, and the dex getting an overhaul. Sadly despite speed fixes, it's still slower than Gen 1-3, and HM spam is still pitiful
Even without Frontier, I'm gonna say it. BDSP will literally be better than OG Gen 4 + Plat to play through. I'm sorry, but Gen 4 was riding off of the coattails of Gen 2 nostalgia, and HGSS sealed that
How so? I honestly think Sinnoh Ash is probably the best he has been. He's still Ash, but he now acts as if he has three/four regions of experience under his belt. Yes, Tobias was BS, but it also showed how Ash has progressed they needed to pull out a trainer with a team of Legendaries to beat him and Ash held his own when no other trainer couldn't.
The true regression didn't start until Gen 5 when, man, I don't even know what the writers were thinking with some of the choices they did (and I mean before the earthquake, because we should have been introduced to Team Plasma long before then in my opinion).
Actually I think the more target audience are those who never played Gen 4 before. I get the feeling from FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS that they wanted those games to appease/entertain/surprise both veteran players and new players alike. To be fair it was sort of easy for them as by the time those games came out some major new mechanics had been introduced: FRLG had the Special Stat split & Abilities (& I guess Steel & Dark-types though there weren't really prevalent), HGSS also had Abilities & the Physical/Special split, and ORAS brought in Mega Evolutions & Fairy-types. In addition the games expanded on the story: FRLG had the Sevii Islands which included additional Team Rocket stuff, HGSS gave the Rocket Admins identities, and ORAS really gave the villain team admins & bosses some more identity. Finally all of these games art style was updated to match the recent gens.
I'm not getting any of that from BDSP. If you played the original there has yet to be shown a reason to play the remakes, even if your a Sinnoh fan unless you have no way of playing the old Gen IV games and have an itch to play through them again.
To be fair I would assume they will have some bone to throw for veterans.
Maybe a postgame episode or something like that.
...or there won't be one and the only real reason for a veteran to pick them up would be availability of pokemon otherwise unavailable in the wild in SwSh, or maybe the presence of Tutors / different TMs for expanded moveset that will impact competitive, which is also a realistic option.
(In fact we already saw some ""returning"" moves and I will be interested in seeing if these will actually show up in SwSh at later update)
It is my chance to play the Sinnoh games without using an emulator (or Twilight Menu++) to me.
Funnily, that's also the case for me.
I owned (or played on emu) at least one Pokemon game from all generations *except* gen 4, so even if BDSP were complete garbage I'd still end up buying them regardless for the sake of actually knowing the Sinnoh story on a higher grade than "ha ha Cyrus go brrr"
Missed the whole Battle Frontier discussion from a few pages ago, but I want to say this: while I like the Battle Frontiers (and battling in Battle Facilities in general), I do not consider a Battle Frontier to be the most important thing in the series. I think they are fun but not downright necessary. I wouldn't say no to a Frontier appearing again, but I do not downright need it. And, sad as it may sound (and this is probably very unpopular), I feel that Battle Frontiers are a thing of the past nowadays. The last time we got one was in HG/SS, which were released 11-12 years ago. And even so, the Frontier in those games was just copypasted from Platinum, which means it has been 12-13 years since we got a new Frontier.
There has also only been two Battle Frontiers in the entire series, and it never really felt like a staple feature in the series to me. I also remember that in the past, during the Emerald days at least, there were a ton of players who were not interested in the Frontier at all, both casual, hardcore and competitive players. While there were also many like myself who were interested in the Frontier, our interest always felt a bit niche compared to the fandom on the whole. Can't speak for how it was during the Platinum/HG/SS days since I wasn't really active in the fandom back then, but that's what I remember from the Emerald days at least. So, because of that, I can fully understand why GF have chosen to not include a Battle Frontier in the more recent games and generations.
From my five favorite Pokémon games (B/W, B2/W2, X/Y, OR/AS, US/UM), not a single one has a Frontier. In the four latest generations, I have also found myself being satisfied with just the standard Facility and 1-3 extra facilities. So I do not need a Frontier to get the most enjoyment out of a Pokémon game. Spoilers for BD/SP: While I am still unsure about getting SP, the lack of a Frontier does not really matter all that much to me and it is not among the reasons I am unsure about getting the game. But if this had been just a few years ago, I would probably not have gotten the game just because of the lack of a Frontier. Similar to how I didn't get OR/AS upon release because they didn't have a Frontier... but I later got them anyway and had tons of fun with them. The Maison ended up being more than satisfying enough. I have also become more of a casual player lately, so I don't really think I would have the time/interest to play in a Frontier if it were to return.
So that's my view on that. Now, to something else. I have a new possibly unpopular opinion, somewhat related to the above. While I don't need the Battle Frontier to return, there's a similar feature which I have always wanted to return: Black Tower/White Treehollow from B2/W2. Or some sort of spritual successor to them. With the ability to switch betwen them of course, giving you the ability to have both in the same game just like in B2/W2. Don't know if that is unpopular, but it is at least an opinion I don't think I have ever seen posted anywhere before. While I don't really need them to return, just like with the Frontier, I would honestly much rather see the return of some new area similar to them than the return of a Battle Frontier. I have been thinking about Black Tower/White Treehollow a lot lately, as well as gone back to battling in them for a bit, and I have to say that they are two of my favorite areas/places/facilities in the whole series. I also think they are highly underappreciated since they are rarely discussed anywhere. Don't know about anyone else, but that's how I feel.
There has also only been two Battle Frontiers in the entire series, and it never really felt like a staple feature in the series to me. I also remember that in the past, during the Emerald days at least, there were a ton of players who were not interested in the Frontier at all, both casual, hardcore and competitive players. While there were also many like myself who were interested in the Frontier, our interest always felt a bit niche compared to the fandom on the whole. Can't speak for how it was during the Platinum/HG/SS days since I wasn't really active in the fandom back then, but that's what I remember from the Emerald days at least. So, because of that, I can fully understand why GF have chosen to not include a Battle Frontier in the more recent games and generations.
From my five favorite Pokémon games (B/W, B2/W2, X/Y, OR/AS, US/UM), not a single one has a Frontier. In the four latest generations, I have also found myself being satisfied with just the standard Facility and 1-3 extra facilities. So I do not need a Frontier to get the most enjoyment out of a Pokémon game. Spoilers for BD/SP: While I am still unsure about getting SP, the lack of a Frontier does not really matter all that much to me and it is not among the reasons I am unsure about getting the game. But if this had been just a few years ago, I would probably not have gotten the game just because of the lack of a Frontier. Similar to how I didn't get OR/AS upon release because they didn't have a Frontier... but I later got them anyway and had tons of fun with them. The Maison ended up being more than satisfying enough. I have also become more of a casual player lately, so I don't really think I would have the time/interest to play in a Frontier if it were to return.
So that's my view on that. Now, to something else. I have a new possibly unpopular opinion, somewhat related to the above. While I don't need the Battle Frontier to return, there's a similar feature which I have always wanted to return: Black Tower/White Treehollow from B2/W2. Or some sort of spritual successor to them. With the ability to switch betwen them of course, giving you the ability to have both in the same game just like in B2/W2. Don't know if that is unpopular, but it is at least an opinion I don't think I have ever seen posted anywhere before. While I don't really need them to return, just like with the Frontier, I would honestly much rather see the return of some new area similar to them than the return of a Battle Frontier. I have been thinking about Black Tower/White Treehollow a lot lately, as well as gone back to battling in them for a bit, and I have to say that they are two of my favorite areas/places/facilities in the whole series. I also think they are highly underappreciated since they are rarely discussed anywhere. Don't know about anyone else, but that's how I feel.
That's fair. I also really like Black Tower/White Treehollow as a kind of dungeon crawl facility a la Battle Pyramid in some ways. In fact that in combination with the PWT almost completely made up for the lack of Frontier in B2W2 for me. And while a Frontier isn't exactly a staple in the main series, some form of enhanced post game battle facility does feel like a staple to me in the best main series Pokémon games. My top four of Platinum, Emerald, HGSS and B2W2 all contain one of these. To me it's practically a requirement for a game to include something like that to be in the discussion of the best in the series. That might seem unfairly harsh but it's a credit to those games as far as the standards they set.
I'm still hopeful BDSP can compete with FRLG and ORAS for the best non-HGSS remake because that seems like a good, feasible goal. But the margin for error to compete with those top four is razor thin and omitting the Frontier without an adequate replacement is, at least for me, a pretty glaring omission.
Yeah I mean the Frontier was never a staple, but maybe it should have been. Yung Dramps realized it a few pages ago, but I wasn't aware it was even ambiguous at the time. It wouldn't have been hard to take the tower framework they had and just make a few rooms, use the same sets and make facilities, especially in comparison to some of the stuff they did. Heck, it wouldn't have been hard in DP to start off on the right foot with a Frontier rather than wait for Platinum. After all, Crystal first introduced the Tower and they put it in RS rather than holding off for Emerald. Masuda's interview was always an insult and that's how I took it at the time. Rather than replace the Frontier with something else substantial, the most I can expect from postgame or DLC is an easy fetch quest, some high level boss fight you're nevertheless overlevelled for, or Legend catching. Dexit was rough but by the time it hit they had reached a place where I didn't have a reason to transfer my old pokes anyway.
So yeah. I still love pokemon for what it is, but they don't make the games for me anymore. And I know I'm a minority, and I know I can't do anything about it. But that doesn't stop me from hoping for better, expecting better, cause stranger things have happened. BDSP so far seems to be faithful enough and It'd be nice enough to enjoy a good out of the box experience again. If they give me a reason to play for 500 hours again that's a nice bonus.
So yeah. I still love pokemon for what it is, but they don't make the games for me anymore. And I know I'm a minority, and I know I can't do anything about it. But that doesn't stop me from hoping for better, expecting better, cause stranger things have happened. BDSP so far seems to be faithful enough and It'd be nice enough to enjoy a good out of the box experience again. If they give me a reason to play for 500 hours again that's a nice bonus.
If you talk to the Game Freak Director in HGSS he says that remaking an old game for the present time is a challenge since it has the appease the fans of the original while "not doing the same thing over again". To bring back memories while creating a new experience.
I don't get that from BDSP either, Granted, it's another dev team but the director is from GF...
Regardless, ILCA must be included in the 'obligatory Game Freak building' and hopefully some words about finally outsourcing after so many years lol
Excuse me sir, are you *daring* to say you want to have fun playing a game?
Please, get out, we don't do that here.
Since we're kind of on the topic here's a truly unpopular opinion: I actually like regions that force you to use HMs. Part of the team building challenge for me is not just crafting a good battling team but also a team that can traverse difficult terrain. It's not an inconvenience for me as much as a fun challenge. It's one of the reasons I like Hoenn and Sinnoh so much because it feels like a true accomplishment to have not just defeated every trainer but also successfully built a team that can navigate the regions without HM slaves.
And trust me it is possible to navigate both without Zigzagoon and Bibarel. It just requires planning. I understand HMs are not everyone's cup of tea but for me it adds to the richness and challenge of a region to have them implemented as roadblocks. Particularly Victory Roads which are supposed to serve as a rite of passage, should have a fair number of them. Hoenn and Sinnoh's Victory Roads were very well designed in my opinion due in some part to this reason.
And trust me it is possible to navigate both without Zigzagoon and Bibarel. It just requires planning. I understand HMs are not everyone's cup of tea but for me it adds to the richness and challenge of a region to have them implemented as roadblocks. Particularly Victory Roads which are supposed to serve as a rite of passage, should have a fair number of them. Hoenn and Sinnoh's Victory Roads were very well designed in my opinion due in some part to this reason.
I've only played 1 Pokemon game with HMs and I thought they were fine, and even a little fun (Pokemon X). But my issue is I have a lot of fun building up good movesets in a casual setting, which is hard to do if you have to load up on really crappy moves in order to progress.
That's where my main issue lies: Most of the moves stink even casually. I'm not talking about like, Fly. That move is mediocre competitively but it's perfectly alright in a casual game since AI are stupid and don't know what "switching out" means. I mean the moves like Cut, Rock Smash, Defog. None of these moves are useful even in the most casual of environments. Cut is outclassed by another HM in the form of strength, Rock Smash is usually outclassed by almost any attacking move (the defense drop can be useful but I'd rather use another 40BP Fighting move like Power Up Punch). And Defog...
If HMs were at the very least decent casually like Fly, I'd have no problem. I love the idea of HMs as a concept...but execution wise they should be reworked or stay gone. My idea is to make it so you get the ability to use a "Hidden technique" and a TM for a move that can be used for that hidden technique, like Rock Smash, but down the line you could use almost any Fighting type move for that same function, so you still need your Pokemon to help you traverse through the region but you can do it with actually useful moves. It does remove a bit of the "challenge" or need to plan out your moves if you can just use almost any move for the technique, but I think it's a fair trade to not have to use an HM Mule or load up otherwise worthless moves on your team.
That's where my main issue lies: Most of the moves stink even casually. I'm not talking about like, Fly. That move is mediocre competitively but it's perfectly alright in a casual game since AI are stupid and don't know what "switching out" means. I mean the moves like Cut, Rock Smash, Defog. None of these moves are useful even in the most casual of environments. Cut is outclassed by another HM in the form of strength, Rock Smash is usually outclassed by almost any attacking move (the defense drop can be useful but I'd rather use another 40BP Fighting move like Power Up Punch). And Defog...
If HMs were at the very least decent casually like Fly, I'd have no problem. I love the idea of HMs as a concept...but execution wise they should be reworked or stay gone. My idea is to make it so you get the ability to use a "Hidden technique" and a TM for a move that can be used for that hidden technique, like Rock Smash, but down the line you could use almost any Fighting type move for that same function, so you still need your Pokemon to help you traverse through the region but you can do it with actually useful moves. It does remove a bit of the "challenge" or need to plan out your moves if you can just use almost any move for the technique, but I think it's a fair trade to not have to use an HM Mule or load up otherwise worthless moves on your team.
Another thing with HMs is that, for some (mainly looking at Cut/Rock Smash&Climb/Waterfall), you have to use them over and over and over on the same damn overworld element.
Seriously, I smashed that rock an hour ago, how come another one took its place already? Are we somehow dealing with sentient roc- wait a minute.
But for real, constantly mashing A in caves, with unskippable animations to boot, can become a real pain real fast. Not to mentions it means you have ro bring you HM mons if you want to backtrack.
I would like for some sort of flag to be added that tells the game 'okay, this element has already been dealt with', kind of how Strength boulder stay in their hole for the entire game (may be a recent QoL change?). If you come across such an element and press A, the boulder crumbles/the tree gets cut, with only the overworld animation playing and no team requirements.
That, imo, would allow balance between layers of exploration and being a general annoyance.
Seriously, I smashed that rock an hour ago, how come another one took its place already? Are we somehow dealing with sentient roc- wait a minute.
But for real, constantly mashing A in caves, with unskippable animations to boot, can become a real pain real fast. Not to mentions it means you have ro bring you HM mons if you want to backtrack.
I would like for some sort of flag to be added that tells the game 'okay, this element has already been dealt with', kind of how Strength boulder stay in their hole for the entire game (may be a recent QoL change?). If you come across such an element and press A, the boulder crumbles/the tree gets cut, with only the overworld animation playing and no team requirements.
That, imo, would allow balance between layers of exploration and being a general annoyance.
That was added in Gen V, when Strength was changed from "Hey, let's put a Sokoban puzzle for no reason" to "Use this to open alternate or better paths to backtrack".
If I may ask, what hack did you make?
That's the thing, I really like overworld puzzles and things like that as a break in the pacing of the game. It's just that half the time in Pokemon they're not that good. "Use Cut" is not a puzzle, TRICK MASTER. I'd love more OG Strength puzzles, one-way routes, and other cleverness, but they've gotten rid of a lot of that as they phazed out HMs.
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