Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

Pikachu315111 said:
Since the only Pokemon that can learn Teleport naturally are Psychic-types and all other examples are TMs, maybe for the non-Psychic-types they aren't exactly using psychic powers to Teleport but are using their connection to their Poke Ball to just recall them back into it. It looks like its teleporting but its just going back inside its Pokeball. For Wild Pokemon that leaves them confused and think the battle is over. It originally failed in Trainer Battles before Let's Go because it was considered the Pokemon forfeiting the battle, however starting from Let's Go (and in the core series SwSh) it has been ruled as just a variant of a switching move.
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This doesn't work considering its out-of-battle effect. Don't forget that Teleport primarily exists as a convenience tool, allowing you to leave a dungeon easily. This means that a Pokémon that can use Teleport is capable of teleporting matter as complex as its trainer, 6 Pokémon if the trainer has a full party, and all the belongings inside the trainer's bag out of an entire cave, to a specific point just outside the door.

So basically, the only Pokémon that should be able to learn Teleport is Hoopa lol. This is a case of "gameplay trumps logic" and I think that's fine. Now that Teleport has a useful in-battle effect, it's distributed much less widely.
 
Celever said:
This doesn't work considering its out-of-battle effect. Don't forget that Teleport primarily exists as a convenience tool, allowing you to leave a dungeon easily. This means that a Pokémon that can use Teleport is capable of teleporting matter as complex as its trainer, 6 Pokémon if the trainer has a full party, and all the belongings inside the trainer's bag out of an entire cave, to a specific point just outside the door.

So basically, the only Pokémon that should be able to learn Teleport is Hoopa lol. This is a case of "gameplay trumps logic" and I think that's fine. Now that Teleport has a useful in-battle effect, it's distributed much less widely.
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Technically Teleport's distribution is about the same.
It stopped being a TM in gen 2 and was not brought back until Let's Go, which gave it the effect....and then has a 1:1 Teleport learn set with gen 1. Literally the only "new" Pokemon to get Teleport learned it naturally (Elgyem learned it by breeding and was the only one to do so gens 5-7, and now learn it in its levle up moveset) or was Alola Exeggutor in Let's Go.


Depending on if you're official-only or a showdown/unofficial person it's either retained the same Net Loss since gen 3 or remained basically the same since its introduction
 
Not a move, but an ability. Flare Boost. Do you even remember this ability even existed ? If you don't, I don't blame you. Its not a bad ability by any means, it increases the Sp.Atk by 50% if the user is burned, making its a special guts. The problem is that its the signature abilitiy of the Drifloon line, but everyone knows that Unburden is what gives them their niche, and they are too slow to take advantage of it. And despite being introduced in Gen 5, it remains their signature ability to date. It is strange. Bulbapedia speculates that it might be a reference to how Hot Air Balloons use heat to inflate themselves, and the Drifloon line are based on hot air balloons, but I think this reference is too trivial to keep this ability a signature ability.
 
DreamPrince said:
Not a move, but an ability. Flare Boost. Do you even remember this ability even existed ? If you don't, I don't blame you. Its not a bad ability by any means, it increases the Sp.Atk by 50% if the user is burned, making its a special guts. The problem is that its the signature abilitiy of the Drifloon line, but everyone knows that Unburden is what gives them their niche, and they are too slow to take advantage of it. And despite being introduced in Gen 5, it remains their signature ability to date. It is strange. Bulbapedia speculates that it might be a reference to how Hot Air Balloons use heat to inflate themselves, and the Drifloon line are based on hot air balloons, but I think this reference is too trivial to keep this ability a signature ability.
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I don't think Game Freak is purposefully keeping it a signature ability. It's just a difficult ability to justify flavor-wise. The Pokemon has to have some association with fire, but it also can't be Fire-type because then it would be immune to burns. Not a lot of Pokemon can claim that, and even for the ones that do like Gourgeist and Weezing, Flare Boost is still competing with a bunch of other abilities, and only a max of three can be chosen.
 
DreamPrince said:
Not a move, but an ability. Flare Boost. (...) Bulbapedia speculates that it might be a reference to how Hot Air Balloons use heat to inflate themselves, and the Drifloon line are based on hot air balloons, but I think this reference is too trivial to keep this ability a signature ability.
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DrPumpkinz said:
It's just a difficult ability to justify flavor-wise. The Pokemon has to have some association with fire, but it also can't be Fire-type because then it would be immune to burns.
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Just also want to mention its Japanese name is "Burn Rampage". Because of that, I don't think it's Drifloon's Signature Ability just because hot air balloon use hot air to rise up, but may also be a reference to how many lighter then air gasses are extremely flammable. Like, in addition to their Aftermath Ability, it makes me wonder if they really are referencing the Hindenburg disaster.

But yeah, taking the names into account DrPumpkinz is likely correct. In addition, Flare Boost also doesn't negate Burn damage which is a strike against it. It's an Ability that maybe needs some buffing and a Pokemon specifically designed to have it. I would toss out ideas, but that's going into wishlisting territory and honestly more of a project for the CAP team if they care. If I WERE to suggest at least some Types:
  • The most obvious ones would probably be Ground & Rock as there are flammable minerals and Rock-types would resist the Fire-type damage which would be the normal way Pokemon get Burned (I said NORMAL, I know there's Flame Orb, Will-O-Wisp, Scald, and Scorching Sand). Problem is those Types generally aren't Special Attackers.

  • There's of course always Grass-types, but you gotta find the right species of plants and then figure out a design around it. To toss some out there, the classic burn remedy Aloe plant is fire-resistant, Sage is also, some trees like the Eucalyptus grow their branches high-up in a "crown" so when there's a fire only its strong bark is slightly burned, etc.. The only issue I see here is that GF would be hard not to want to make this a form transformation which either requires a new mechanic added to Flare Boost or, more likely, a completely new form changing Ability.

  • Dragon would be a good Type, though probably hard-pressed not to just make it part Fire-type. Maybe scour mythical creatures and see if there's maybe a Fairy or Ghost which is associated with fire?

  • Steel has the same concept but also issues as Ground & Rock, but with the added problem of being weak to Fire.

  • Fighting, Psychic, and Dark could maybe put a spiritual/mental aspect to it; Fighting probably wouldn't see much benefit being more a Physical Type but Psychic and Dark could.

  • Maybe with a stretch they could use Bug and Poison?

  • I would pay to see them do this with an Ice-type, lol.
 
Siggu said:
With the Drifloon line being hot air balloons, Flare Boost works in that those balloons need fire to actually accomplish their purpose, so we'd need something that cannot work properly unless fire is applied on them, cannot produce said fire on their own, and isn't a Fire-type Pokémon.
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The Koffing line perhaps?
 
Siggu said:
With the Drifloon line being hot air balloons, Flare Boost works in that those balloons need fire to actually accomplish their purpose, so we'd need something that cannot work properly unless fire is applied on them, cannot produce said fire on their own, and isn't a Fire-type Pokémon.
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Not necessarily. As I noted above, it's Japanese name is "Burn Rampage", and yes that is important as GF bases what Pokemon get what Ability (and Moves) depending on its Japanese name cause, you know, they're a Japanese developer.

"Burn Rampage" on its own simply sounds like, when the Pokemon is Burned, it enters a heightened state of mind of anger & fury and just starts blasting away at things (likely because the Burn makes it painful to move so it's standing still blasting away).

Now, being applied to the Drifloon family certainly gives it another context: whatever they're filled with it likely now combusting and I guess they're releasing the increased energy through their Special attacks. Does this mean what I said above is wrong about the concept behind the move? Not at all, if anything Drifloon's reasoning of getting the Ability shows how the concept can be adapted between different Pokemon. Giving some more in-depth examples:

  • Ground/Rock/Steel-type: As I said, there are flammable minerals. Can make a Pokemon out of that mineral, make it a special attacker (maybe finally make that tank Pokemon, or at least one with a cannon/ammunition barrel), and then have the idea that when burned it readily reacts to the mineral the Pokemon is made of and the Pokemon transfer the sudden energy created from the release into increasing its cannon fire. Another idea is making a non-Fire-type furnace/stove/engine Pokemon which its implied is burning material to fuel itself and Burning it is only giving it more energy (if you make it a steam-based Pokemon could also make it part Water-type).

  • Grass-type: This would probably fall back into my "face value" description of the Ability. You'd just have a Grass-type based on a plant that is fire-resistant and, because of that, one of its gimmicks is that it gets Flare Boost as an Ability. Now from here it depends on what they think the "Burn" status is doing. If they think the "Burn" status actually means the Pokemon is on fire, they could make it so that the Grass-type is trying to put itself out via releasing extra amount of energy its able to drain from the flaming Burn. If they're going with "Burn" as in it leaves a painful wound that has likely damaged tissue, they could say the Grass-type has a coping mechanism which releases pain-relieving enzymes which the Pokemon partly uses to increase its Special power to defend itself while healing and/or because it's now in an euphoric state and thus is no longer holding back.

  • Dragon-type: Could take this a few ways. Maybe have a peaceful Dragon species which turn super violent if they feel a prolonged sense of pain (or a Dragon species always looking for a fight which turn into berserkers when Burned). Have a Dragon species that in ancient times breathed flames but no longer, but when Burned are able to call back up that ability in a form or increased Special power.

  • BTW, these ideas aren't exclusive and can probably mix them together. Have a Plant Dragon, or do that Tank Dragon concept which Hydreigon was supposed to be, or a Grass-type that grows in certain soil gaining aspects of the minerals it grew in. Just something to keep in mind as I go on.

  • Fighting/Psychic/Dark-type: The concept here would be mind over matter: turning pain into strength through willpower. For a Fighting-type they could have a ki channeler based Pokemon that when burned uses the constant pain to heightened their senses and focus the adrenaline into their special attacks... OR, you know, make them a Physical Attacker and give them the Guts Ability cause it follows the same logic. But I mention it, not only because its still an option, but also because this could work for a Psychic-type. It's just instead of ki it's some other kind of spiritual energy. Heck, could make a sort of pyrokinetic Pokemon that doesn't use "normal fire" but instead "psychic energy in the form of fire" and being Burned just helps them perfect their craft. Dark-types I see being the berserker kind, give a justification for it having a high sensitivity to heat and you probably are good to go. Or we could take the Galarian Moltres route and go abstract, make it a smokey or dark energy monster which feeds on fury & negative thoughts and being burned just increases it in both the physical and mental sense.

  • Fairy/Ghost-type: As I said, if there's any fairies or ghosts that use or associated with fire that could also be a potential route to go down.

  • Bug-type: To go into specifics what I'm thinking, maybe a sort of bombardier beetle or stink bug/stink bomb Pokemon where normally its perfectly fine & able to spray the chemical liquid to attack BUT if an outside source burns it causes a chemical reaction in the liquid which increases its Special attacks (notably moves which uses its liquids).

  • Poison-types: Continuing on the chemical idea, well Poison-types are essentially a "catch all" Type for any biohazard material like poisons, acids, pollutants, bleach, and other chemicals. And many chemicals are reactive to fire so there's plenty of possibilities there. Maybe do a Steel/Poison incinerator Pokemon, normally slowly burns the garbage it collects but when Burned it burns the garbage faster so increases the energy it releases.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
  • Dragon would be a good Type, though probably hard-pressed not to just make it part Fire-type. Maybe scour mythical creatures and see if there's maybe a Fairy or Ghost which is associated with fire?
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Honestly if Ninetales wasn’t a thing, a Fairy or Ghost typed mythical fox/kitsune would be a good option because of foxfire and fairy lights. There are also many plants and ecosystems in Mediterranean climates (like California or… the Mediterranean) that depend on wildfire for their reproductive cycles, so a Grass type based on that could also be cool.

Also, another iteration of a Pheonix could be cool. One that isn’t constantly burning—maybe a Fairy/Flying type. Phoenixes in mythology aren’t always burning, oftentimes it’s just for their funeral/rebirth pyre.
 
I don't know if this feels odd to anybody else, but Sharpedo don't learning Nasty Plot always felt strange to me, since it is part of the "evil type", and a nasty plot seems something very evil to do (so much it's a dark-type move). You could say that actual sharks aren't evil, and that they attack other creatures to survive or for instinct, which is something plausible, ngl. But if that's the case why a bat (Zubat), which might also attack other animals for instinct learns it? A hypothesis i have is that it's because the relationship between Bats and Vampires, whick would also make sense with the japanese name of Nasty Plot, Sinister Plot, and in most of the cases, vampires are sinister creatures.
But why a Freaking NUT (seedot) learns it!? I can understand why Nuzleaf and Shiftry learns it, since they already have the dark type and are based on the Tengu, which is a sinister figure. But what is the nastiest thing a nut can do? Fall in your head? If someone has a good explanation to it, I'll be very glad to hear it, because I can't think about anything that explains this
 
memebitatxt. said:
But what is the nastiest thing a nut can do? Fall in your head? If someone has a good explanation to it, I'll be very glad to hear it, because I can't think about anything that explains this
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Seeds of evil
As for Sharpedo, it's probably cuz he's Atk oriented instead of special, though special is decent still
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Sonikku A said:
Seeds of evil
As for Sharpedo, it's probably cuz he's Atk oriented instead of special, though special is decent still View attachment 376829
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Didn't stop them from giving Sceptile Swords Dance event though it has a higher Special attack. Seriously it has no way of boosting it's special attack outside of Berries and Lightning Rod in it's Mega form

I will never not complain about this
 
Chadlad50 said:
Didn't stop them from giving Sceptile Swords Dance event though it has a higher Special attack. Seriously it has no way of boosting it's special attack outside of Berries and Lightning Rod in it's Mega form

I will never not complain about this
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To be fair, with those stats I can see it using both attacking stats and making it work.
 
The Mind Electric said:
To be fair, with those stats I can see it using both attacking stats and making it work.
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Unfortunately with power creep it's pretty hard to make 85 attack work even in lower tiers. Granted I'm not sure how well it'd do with Nasty Plot (or Tail Glow please give it Tail Glow) but right now it's PUBL with 0 viable strategies at all, and I'm not sure if it ever ran Swords Dance sets while it was allowed in PU. I wasn't around when it was allowed but my guess is it abused Thwackey's Grassy Surge and ran a Grassy Seed + Unburden cleaner set. That actually could work with a Swords Dance set, since it gets extra bulk from the seed, but given it's frailty even with a defense boost I feel like it probably ran Special sets.

In it's Mega Form it's attack stat is a little better but that incredible 145 Special attack stat gives you the stink eye when you use physical sets. Doesn't help that since it's a Mega you can't use a Choice Band on it. After all Dragapult gets away with an only decent special attack stat since it can use Choice Specs to boost it and it has a massive speed stat, something M-Sceptile could do in theory if it had an open item slot...but it doesn't.

in general Sceptile definitely needs a special boosting move (Tail Glow!!!) and, arguably more importantly, a wider special movepool. While I'm here Typhlosion needs that too, give it Energy Ball or something. My biggest hope is a new Hisuian form with secondary STAB, Fire/Dark or Fire/Ground would be awesome
 
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memebitatxt. said:
I don't know if this feels odd to anybody else, but Sharpedo don't learning Nasty Plot always felt strange to me, since it is part of the "evil type", and a nasty plot seems something very evil to do (so much it's a dark-type move). You could say that actual sharks aren't evil, and that they attack other creatures to survive or for instinct, which is something plausible, ngl. But if that's the case why a bat (Zubat), which might also attack other animals for instinct learns it? A hypothesis i have is that it's because the relationship between Bats and Vampires, whick would also make sense with the japanese name of Nasty Plot, Sinister Plot, and in most of the cases, vampires are sinister creatures.
But why a Freaking NUT (seedot) learns it!? I can understand why Nuzleaf and Shiftry learns it, since they already have the dark type and are based on the Tengu, which is a sinister figure. But what is the nastiest thing a nut can do? Fall in your head? If someone has a good explanation to it, I'll be very glad to hear it, because I can't think about anything that explains this
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Sharpedo doesn't strike me as the scheming type. It strikes me as the "no thoughts just kill" type.
 
Siggu said:
Considering it took Gengar FOUR generations to be able to learn Nasty Plot...
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That was most likely a balance concern more than anything, or just not wanting Gengar to be a setup sweeper. It just took until Gen 8 before Game Freak abandoned any sense of restraint or mechanical elegance and just made every decision with about the same kind of thought as most posts in this thread.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Sharpedo doesn't strike me as the scheming type. It strikes me as the "no thoughts just kill" type.
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Sonikku A said:
As for Sharpedo, it's probably cuz he's Atk oriented instead of special, though special is decent still
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Well Crawdaunt, another Water/Dark with similarly aggressive, combative no-holds-barred behavior gets Nasty Plot. It even has the same high-attack-but-decent-SpA situation as Sharpedo, so it does seem odd that the shark doesn't get the move...
 
BoomFantastic said:
Well Crawdaunt, another Water/Dark with similarly aggressive, combative no-holds-barred behavior gets Nasty Plot. It even has the same high-attack-but-decent-SpA situation as Sharpedo, so it does seem odd that the shark doesn't get the move...
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It's likely a combination of Crawdaunt being much slower, already being balanced around learning Swords Dance, and Gen 8 TRs being Gen 8 TRs.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
That was most likely a balance concern more than anything, or just not wanting Gengar to be a setup sweeper. It just took until Gen 8 before Game Freak abandoned any sense of restraint or mechanical elegance and just made every decision with about the same kind of thought as most posts in this thread.
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Yeah, something similar happened with mons like Kyurem and Hydreigon with Dragon Dance. Even though it makes sense they got DD since the start, they didn't added it until gen8 for balance reasons, which might also be the reason Garchomp still doesn't have it.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
That was most likely a balance concern more than anything, or just not wanting Gengar to be a setup sweeper. It just took until Gen 8 before Game Freak abandoned any sense of restraint or mechanical elegance and just made every decision with about the same kind of thought as most posts in this thread.
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Of course there's no longer a need to think about long-term balance. If Nasty Plot Gengar is a problem, then the next game can just remove Gengar, Nasty Plot, or both. There, problem solved.

(for the record, I don't think this is a good philosophy to follow even if I do think that it's contributed to mons suddenly getting much stronger movepools.
 
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