Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

BoomFantastic said:
Well Crawdaunt, another Water/Dark with similarly aggressive, combative no-holds-barred behavior gets Nasty Plot. It even has the same high-attack-but-decent-SpA situation as Sharpedo, so it does seem odd that the shark doesn't get the move...
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Crawdaunt shows some sense of intelligence. It's not super aggressive because it's competing for food or a mate, the dex entries just make it out to be a bully who greedily wants an entire lake/pond for itself. Also, when ITS in a weakened state (has just molted or one of its pincers break off), it turns cowardly and hides away until it's strong again. It's fighting because it like to fight, it's showing intelligent intent to cause harm. Crawdaunt be like (speak in your best mobster voice): "This is a nice lake/pond you got here, I'LL TAKE IT! EVERYONE OUT! Huh, you wanna fight me? YOU wanna fight ME. Do you know WHO I am? PINCER TO THE FACE! GET OUT AND STAY OUT! Yeah, who's next? I see you hidin' over there! OUT YOU GO! EVERYONE gets an eviction notice! Oh, ANOTHER wise guy, huh? PINCER TO YOUR- OH SHI! My pincer broke! Ugh, ugh, YOU GOT OFF EASY! Gotta hide, gotta hide...".

Sharpedo is just an eating machine. It sees anything it considers food, it first charges at them at full speed possibly trying to swallow in one bite or give a big crunch before the opponent knows what happened. Then, if it doesn't eat its prey in one gulf, it viciously flails and bites until either it's knocked out/forced away or kills its prey and eats it. Then it goes about it's business until spotting the next thing it wants to eat. There's really no thinking, no plotting, just "EAT. EAT. EAT. EAT. EAT. EAT.".
 
Ironmage said:
Of course there's no longer a need to think about long-term balance. If Nasty Plot Gengar is a problem, then the next game can just remove Gengar, Nasty Plot, or both. There, problem solved.

(for the record, I don't think this is a good philosophy to follow even if I do think that it's contributed to mons suddenly getting much stronger movepools.
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This is pretty much an accurate assessment of how Game Freak operates tbh. They've introduced some pretty broken aspects which they've then gone on to nerf (Gale Wings, Parental Bond, Pixilate, Disguise, Soul Dew, and of course Aegislash all come to mind). There's even a quote from an interview I've read where the developers say that they create new Pokemon by observing which Pokemon are most commonly used during official tournaments, and designing new Pokemon that can counter them. Not the best design philosophy.
 
green_typhlosion said:
they create new Pokemon by observing which Pokemon are most commonly used during official tournaments, and designing new Pokemon that can counter them. Not the best design philosophy.
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Disagree.

In fact, observing the meta, identifying elements that lack viable counterplay and designing champions new entries designed to provide the counterplay that is lacking is a pretty solid balancing strategy if you don't rely on aggressive patching but rather on bi-yearly releases (generations, pretty much, as there's never been "in gen" balance changes yet).
The introduction of the new anti-intimidate mechanics for example was pretty successful in VGC, and even brought new interesting viable picks like Entei or Mamoswine that were unthinkable before in a Lando-T + Incineroar-infested meta.

That'd also explain why they introduced HDB despite noone ever using entry hazards in VGC: I suppose they heard that there was a lot of complaint about stealth rock.
(Ironic how now instead people complain that HDB are broken cause they negate hazards instead huh).
 
Worldie said:
Disagree.

In fact, observing the meta, identifying elements that lack viable counterplay and designing champions new entries designed to provide the counterplay that is lacking is a pretty solid balancing strategy if you don't rely on aggressive patching but rather on bi-yearly releases (generations, pretty much, as there's never been "in gen" balance changes yet).
The introduction of the new anti-intimidate mechanics for example was pretty successful in VGC, and even brought new interesting viable picks like Entei or Mamoswine that were unthinkable before in a Lando-T + Incineroar-infested meta.

That'd also explain why they introduced HDB despite noone ever using entry hazards in VGC: I suppose they heard that there was a lot of complaint about stealth rock.
(Ironic how now instead people complain that HDB are broken cause they negate hazards instead huh).
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Gamefreak's way of doing it isn't always the greatest but I do think observing the meta and reacting to it with things to counter it is a good idea, if they're not going to do balance changes.

Although if you ask me, I think in-gen Balance updates could be a good idea to try out. Granted it's not as easy to do with 400-800 Pokemon in the game compared to other games that do balance changes, but I'd be interested to see how that works.
 
Chadlad50 said:
Although if you ask me, I think in-gen Balance updates could be a good idea to try out. Granted it's not as easy to do with 400-800 Pokemon in the game compared to other games that do balance changes, but I'd be interested to see how that works.
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They've actually """tried""" this gen, a bit. One of the VCG seasons for example had a "ban the 10 most used pokemon", and they've tried "no dynamax" as well to shape things up.

Variable VGC formats are the closest we can get to "in-gen" patches and honestly I do appreciate that they are trying... albeith, sadly, they aren't exactly good at identifying how to make a e-sport work and shape a meta just yet.

Anyway I feel we're kinda steering off topic for this specific thread, I suppose we could continue this in one of the other more appropriate threads (idk, unpopular or stuff) instead in case :blobwizard:
 
Hydro Pump became a TR in Generation 8 and I was looking through the list of Pokemon that could learn it and... what? Not only those in the picture, but Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Drakloak and Dragapult as well. The Bagon line at least has the excuse of having gotten it through an event back in the day.
 

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guys the ret said:
Hydro Pump became a TR in Generation 8 and I was looking through the list of Pokemon that could learn it and... what? Not only those in the picture, but Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Drakloak and Dragapult as well. The Bagon line at least has the excuse of having gotten it through an event back in the day.
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To be fair if dragon (or draconic) pokemon can spout fire, I don't see why they can't also spout water
 
guys the ret said:
Hydro Pump became a TR in Generation 8 and I was looking through the list of Pokemon that could learn it and... what? Not only those in the picture, but Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Drakloak and Dragapult as well. The Bagon line at least has the excuse of having gotten it through an event back in the day.
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The Bagon line has always gotten it by breeding, hasn't it?

Lickitung, Kangaskhan, Rhydon, and Tyranitar are to some degree all based on the "kaiju" trope: big Godzilla-esque monsters which show up to destroy cities. These sorts of monsters are often shown to be breathing fire, capable of swimming, and occasionally having various elemental powers, which explains the affinity Pokemon like that have to elemental moves. Outside of that, Tyranitar, Salamence, and Hydreigon are pseudo-legendaries and Lickitung and Kangaskhan are Normal-type, both archetypes of Pokemon which typically have very wide and diverse movepools.

Drakloak and Dragapult are much simpler to explain: they're based on a type of salamander once thought to have been descended from dragons but in reality more closely related to crocodilians. This is reflected in their in-universe lore, as they are stated explicitly to have once been a water-dwelling spcies:

Sword Pokedex entry: After being reborn as a ghost Pokémon, Dreepy wanders the areas it used to inhabit back when it was alive in prehistoric seas.
 
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It was pointed out to me the other day that until Gen V, no Ice-type could learn Haze naturally despite it being an Ice move. Articuno gets it via purification in XD and Amaura gets it via breeding, but Cryogonal is the only Ice-type to learn Haze via level up. Overwhelmingly, those that do get it are Poison, Dark, Ghost, Fairy, and Water. Some amusing discrepancies arise because of this:
  • Vaporeon gets both Haze and its counterpart Mist, but Glaceon does not get either
  • Spectrier gets it and thus so does Calyrex when they're combined, but Glastrier does not
  • Lots of Ghost types get it, but Froslass, the sole Ice/Ghost type, is a notable exception
 
Why are Haze and Mist Ice-type, anyway? Mist is just fine water droplets suspended in the air, and Haze is... mist but with filthy water? (I'm not really sure what the move Haze is supposed to be; most depictions of it look like smoke and soot. Whatever it is, it ain't ice).
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Why are Haze and Mist Ice-type, anyway? Mist is just fine water droplets suspended in the air, and Haze is... mist but with filthy water? (I'm not really sure what the move Haze is supposed to be; most depictions of it look like smoke and soot. Whatever it is, it ain't ice).
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Can't answer that, but wanted to point out Haze's Japanese name translates to "Black Mist" while Mist's Japanese name translates to "White Mist". In a sense, both are mist in a sense, but one is "dark" and the other is "light".

Just wanted to point that out.
 
ScraftyIsTheBest said:
Can't answer that, but wanted to point out Haze's Japanese name translates to "Black Mist" while Mist's Japanese name translates to "White Mist". In a sense, both are mist in a sense, but one is "dark" and the other is "light".

Just wanted to point that out.
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This is why for the 14th movie giveaway event, Reshiram learns Mist while Zekrom learns Haze. Incidentally, Reshiram learning Mist makes it the first Fire type to learn an Ice type move at the time.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Why are Haze and Mist Ice-type, anyway? Mist is just fine water droplets suspended in the air, and Haze is... mist but with filthy water? (I'm not really sure what the move Haze is supposed to be; most depictions of it look like smoke and soot. Whatever it is, it ain't ice).
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The amount of Poison-types which learn it would seem to suggest so. Not sure how that removes stat changes, though...
 
Ironmage said:
Mist/haze/smoke just has that effect for some reason, though it is actually surprisingly consistent. Stat drops are prevented by (white) Mist and the White Smoke ability, while stats are reset by Black Mist/Haze and Clear Smog.
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I guess the smoke works as a sort of protective aura, in the case of Mist and White Smoke. Like, with Leer for instance, the foe adopts a threatening grimace to make the target lower its guard, but if it's partially concealed in smoke or mist? They can't fully see the target so their attempt doesn't work.

(Might or might not be a coincidence that I watched the first Sherlock Holmes movie the other day and have been thinking a lot about that fireplace smoke scene)
 
Just a little oddity I noticed about Ho-oh and Lugia. Doesn't really need explaining; I just thought it was neat.

Ho-oh is the more offensive of the two, but its signature move Sacred Fire has a defensive special effect (high burn chance). Lugia is the more defensive of the two, but its signature move has an offensive special effect (high crit chance).
 
Extrasensory has a weird distribution, especially in it's debut generation. It was the signature move of Nuzleaf in gen III, which is odd not only because Nuzleaf isn't a psychic type, but also because it's not even a fully evolved Pokemon. It's just kind of a random Pokemon to give a signature move to. The only other mons that get extrasensory in gen III are Spoink, Stantler and Whismur. Spoink and even Stantler make some sense, because of their affinity for the psychic type, but why Whismur? Why not Baltoy and Chimecho? Weird choice.

There are a lot of legendaries that learn the move, but there are some oddities. Firstly, many psychic type legendaries don't learn extrasensory, like Celebi, the lati twins or Deoxys. This not really a problem, but it makes the choice to give it to Pokemon like the legendary dogs, Ho-oh and Reshiram all the more random. I also found it odd that Landorous and Tornadus get the move, but not Thundurus. Some other Pokemon that get it without having a strong association with supernatural/psychic powers include Greninja, Zorua, Cyndaquil, Roselia and Drampa.
 
Magnus0 said:
Extrasensory has a weird distribution, especially in it's debut generation. It was the signature move of Nuzleaf in gen III, which is odd not only because Nuzleaf isn't a psychic type, but also because it's not even a fully evolved Pokemon.
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And because it's of a type that is immune to the move.
 
Magnus0 said:
Extrasensory has a weird distribution, especially in it's debut generation. It was the signature move of Nuzleaf in gen III, which is odd not only because Nuzleaf isn't a psychic type, but also because it's not even a fully evolved Pokemon. It's just kind of a random Pokemon to give a signature move to. The only other mons that get extrasensory in gen III are Spoink, Stantler and Whismur. Spoink and even Stantler make some sense, because of their affinity for the psychic type, but why Whismur? Why not Baltoy and Chimecho? Weird choice.

There are a lot of legendaries that learn the move, but there are some oddities. Firstly, many psychic type legendaries don't learn extrasensory, like Celebi, the lati twins or Deoxys. This not really a problem, but it makes the choice to give it to Pokemon like the legendary dogs, Ho-oh and Reshiram all the more random. I also found it odd that Landorous and Tornadus get the move, but not Thundurus. Some other Pokemon that get it without having a strong association with supernatural/psychic powers include Greninja, Zorua, Cyndaquil, Roselia and Drampa.
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This reminded me that Typhlosion gets Extrasensory

Not a useful coverage move like Earth Power, Energy Ball, or anything else. Nope, Extrasensory. I guess it's decent against Toxapex if Typhlosion could even spell "OU"
 
I would say that Whismur gets it because its good hearing is analogous to the "perception" part of "extrasensory perception" but not only is the move completely unrelated to ESP (its description and japanese name indicate that it's just some nebulous weird power) but also Whismur doesn't have super hearing. I was mixing it up with Clefable, who despite having nebulous weird powers does not learn Extrasensory. This move kinda seems like the Shock Wave or Water Pulse of Psychic moves, where it's just like "yeah let's give this thing a suboptimal Psychic move, why not"

Siggu said:
And because it's of a type that is immune to the move.
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That doesn't really have anything to do with it being weird.
 
Block's a weird move, isn't it? Well actually it isn't but I'm going to take issue with the move description this time around.

Prevents escape - okay, cool, with you so far. How exactly isn't made clear in its introductory generation but, as is typical of a lot of moves, the mechanics of how it actually works are elaborated upon in later generations when the description box becomes a bit roomier.

The user blocks the target's way with arms spread wide to prevent escape.

Right, okay, that makes sense for the Pokemon which learn it. Snorlax, Nosepass, Bronzong, Tangrowth, Bastiodon, Mr Rime, Stonjourner, Landorus. All fat, bulky, tactile, or statue-esque species which can feasibly use their considerable bulk to bar your way. But who gets it by breeding?
  • Exeggcute, which doesn't have arms
  • Onix, which also doesn't have arms
  • Snorunt, which doesn't have... you see where I'm going with this, right?
  • Dwebble, which has tiny pincers that you'd struggle to describe as arms
  • Tirtouga, which, surprise surprise, does not have arms
  • Honedge, which hey guess what guys, it doesn't have arms!
  • Rolycoly, which... three guesses what I'm going to say
The thing is, this move makes sense for the majority of those. One can quite easily imagine the likes of Crustle, Steelix, Coalossal, and Carracosta using this move. But why specify arms? Why not just say "it uses its body to bar the foe's way" or something similar? Is it just a translation goof?
 
green_typhlosion said:
Block's a weird move, isn't it? Well actually it isn't but I'm going to take issue with the move description this time around.

Prevents escape - okay, cool, with you so far. How exactly isn't made clear in its introductory generation but, as is typical of a lot of moves, the mechanics of how it actually works are elaborated upon in later generations when the description box becomes a bit roomier.

The user blocks the target's way with arms spread wide to prevent escape.

Right, okay, that makes sense for the Pokemon which learn it. Snorlax, Nosepass, Bronzong, Tangrowth, Bastiodon, Mr Rime, Stonjourner, Landorus. All fat, bulky, tactile, or statue-esque species which can feasibly use their considerable bulk to bar your way. But who gets it by breeding?
  • Exeggcute, which doesn't have arms
  • Onix, which also doesn't have arms
  • Snorunt, which doesn't have... you see where I'm going with this, right?
  • Dwebble, which has tiny pincers that you'd struggle to describe as arms
  • Tirtouga, which, surprise surprise, does not have arms
  • Honedge, which hey guess what guys, it doesn't have arms!
  • Rolycoly, which... three guesses what I'm going to say
The thing is, this move makes sense for the majority of those. One can quite easily imagine the likes of Crustle, Steelix, Coalossal, and Carracosta using this move. But why specify arms? Why not just say "it uses its body to bar the foe's way" or something similar? Is it just a translation goof?
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I'm pretty sure Pyukumuku also gets block too right? I mean it technically does have an arm I guess, but I mean...it's also a foot tall, I can't imagine it's arm is that much larger
 
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