Yep, it's very much locked to late-game. All the dynamax dens require 5-stars, the Lake of Outrage spawns are lvl 50, and Route 10 is, of course, endgame. Why, WHY does GF hate Ice-types so much?
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Probably because of Freeze in Gen 1.
I don't think it's deliberate. They are probably going in a "Ice-types live in cold regions" -> "Cold regions are harsh" -> "Harsh regions are late-game" kind of logic.
(Which is funny as I've started playing Puyo Puyo Chronicle, as the English patch has been released, and the cold region is the second one you visit)
Last edited:
I really cannot see pidgey having any charm at all. It's just a bit of a lame bird with a very lame evolution line and boring movepool
Well, the entire line is cute, and Pidgeotto was my favourite early-game bird until Fletchinder was introduced...
It is not an unpopular opinion, but it is good to remember that several if not most single-staged Pokémon tend to be unpopular for one or more of the following reason:
To keep in-track of this thread’s name, I got an opinion that might be unpopular.
A Pokémon’s design shouldn’t be the only thing that matters to a Pokémon. The reason is that like art is subjective, design is subjective, and a design that is perceived as great can also be a trap for severe disappointment, i.e. awkward or weak stats, poor movepool, out-of-the-way obtention or convoluted evolution method, to the point it can hurt one’s perception to that Pokémon greatly.
There is a reason why a thread about disappointing Pokémon despite looking good initially exists.
- Lacking stats or poor stat distribution, or poor movepool for the moment it is obtained, and a lack of evolution leading to further disappointment.
- Generally seen as unappealing or even outright appaling for the general audience. This problem is not exclusive to single-staged or once-single-staged Pokémon in general, but it is very prevalant.
- Out-of-the-way or late-game combined with high rarity.
- Strictly overshadowed by what came before (i.e. Turtonator being overshadowed by Torkoal).
- Too gimmicky for its own good.
To keep in-track of this thread’s name, I got an opinion that might be unpopular.
A Pokémon’s design shouldn’t be the only thing that matters to a Pokémon. The reason is that like art is subjective, design is subjective, and a design that is perceived as great can also be a trap for severe disappointment, i.e. awkward or weak stats, poor movepool, out-of-the-way obtention or convoluted evolution method, to the point it can hurt one’s perception to that Pokémon greatly.
There is a reason why a thread about disappointing Pokémon despite looking good initially exists.
Unironically I think you aren't wrong.
Almost every RPG usually has that design archetype for ice region. Cold > Harsh > Difficult to survive in > High level / endgame regions.
There are exceptions obviously but it's *usually* the case.
I think Ice type pokemon are just unfortunate victim of a common JRPG trope.
Interesting references:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfThreateningGeography
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlippySlideyIceWorld
Heavily disagree on the cute part, these birds give me no emotion other than "wow, this sure one of the most birds of all time". Though taste is subjective
I think the Gen 1 games' myriad of glitches adds to the generation's unique appeal. The games themselves as they were intended to be played are obviously awesome in and of themselves, but the sheer volume of ways you could unravel them is something special, and is a part of Gen 1's appeal that sadly, no remake can ever recapture.
The elemental monkeys are cool and underrated for ingame use. The Pansear line in particular has only gotten better as of Gen 6 due to the Incinerate buff. And Simisear just looks cool.
Good Shiny colors > ugly Shiny colors >>>>> not being able to tell it's Shiny until it sparkles
It's OK to like either Plusle or Minun without automatically lumping the two together.
Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee are good games.
PWT >>>> Battle Frontier
Z-Moves > Mega Evolution >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dynamax
Phione's cute appearance validates its existence as a Pokémon, even in spite of being objectively inferior to Manaphy in terms of viability in every way conceivable.
The elemental monkeys are cool and underrated for ingame use. The Pansear line in particular has only gotten better as of Gen 6 due to the Incinerate buff. And Simisear just looks cool.
Good Shiny colors > ugly Shiny colors >>>>> not being able to tell it's Shiny until it sparkles
It's OK to like either Plusle or Minun without automatically lumping the two together.
Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee are good games.
PWT >>>> Battle Frontier
Z-Moves > Mega Evolution >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dynamax
Phione's cute appearance validates its existence as a Pokémon, even in spite of being objectively inferior to Manaphy in terms of viability in every way conceivable.
You're just mad birds mistake you for a tree
It's kinda funny how later Gen Birds mostly are obvious for origin, but 1s are an amalgation of sorts
Pidgey is a Waxwing/Sparrow, and raptor beak mix, Pidgeotto/Pidgeot is like a sparrow/cockatoo/eagle/hawk mix. Fearow is a vulture, crane, and some other thing. Even Duduo/Dodrio is weird given its crane beak, raptor feet, and ostrich/emu body
Zapdos could be a hummingbird for all we know, Articuno initially had a parrot beak that became more like a sparrows, and Moltres is the only one distinct that's a
This is weirder given many water mons are blatantly solo for origin, and GFs 1996 dex book addresses why
So I wouldn't say they were lazy, even if colors are drab. It's just like birds irl, their unique features are easily taken for granted
Last edited:
Being the first gen bird I think that what they were going for, lol. Still, Pidgeot does rock that crest.
"It's not my fault your hair isn't as luxurious as mine. Don't hate the player, hate the game."
We found him. The only one who voted for Simisear!
Let's Go: Nowadays I don't think anyone has anything really against Let's Go (especially after GF backpedaled saying it wasn't part of the core series, just the main series). At most people still don't like how the GO Mechanic was forced in and essentially replaced Wild Battles.
PWT & Battle Frontier: Why not both? And they don't need to be separate, I can think of a few ways of combining them. Also where are the Elite Four, PWT, they're just as memorable as the Gym Leaders & Champions?
Phione: Eh, I think they could still do a bit more with it. Like, it's a offspring of a Legendary Pokemon, surely it could be given some special things so that it's not just an inferior Manaphy. Personally I think it should get a Signature Move where it temporarily transforms into a Manaphy (but with Phione's color scheme), showing that deep down it does have a power of a Legendary, it just needs to consciously activate it.
Gen 1 Glitches: Honestly I agree. I feel like Pokemon Red is a ton more interesting to revisit compared to something like the original Super Mario Bros. You could even compare it to Super Mario 64.
Monkeys: I don't care about the Fire or Water monkeys but I actually like Pansage and Simisage. Nothing crazy, but it's not a bad design at all. Weird how monkeys are some of my favorite animals and yet the only ones I like are Simisage and Oranguru (maybe Primeape, he's funny)
Shinies: Hard disagree. Atleast with barely changed Shinies, it doesn't actively make the Pokemon worse. For a design like Garchomp and Gengar, I'm glad their shinies don't make them look awful, even if they're very boring and plain.
LGPE: These games definitely have stuff going for them but I couldn't get into it because of the catching mechanic.
Gimmicks: I'd have to say Z-Moves > Dynamax > Megas. This is mostly from a casual standpoint. I honestly like a lot about Z moves. I like the goofy dances, the powerful animations, the names, how they replace "badges" in USUM. They feel especially epic in the Anime. Dynamax is also cool too, I like how epic it makes battles feel in the game. Megas are fine, but I have a lot to pick with them. For one, it completely ruined the chances of Pokemon like Mawile, Bannete, and Sableye ever getting evolutions. That's fucking annoying. I also dislike how they were handled in game. In a standard X playthrough, you only get access to the Kanto starters Megas, Mega Ampharos (for some reason), Mega Lucario, Mega Gengar I think, and Mega Abomasnow. Everything else is locked behind post-game. While I like how they make weak Pokemon stronger, it also kinda feels...artificial? In a way. Like yeah now Mawile is good, but only in this temporary form. Competitive wise Megas quash the other two though.
Phionne: I'd agree if Manaphy wasn't way cuter than Phionne
LOOK AT MAH SWEEPBeing the first gen bird I think that what they were going for, lol. Still, Pidgeot does rock that crest.
"It's not my fault your hair isn't as luxurious as mine. Don't hate the player, hate the game."
wish this reappeared, but alas. Anime screwed over unique 1 traits
I don't find sobble cute and instead a bit weird looking (I know I'm gonna get a billion replies saying YoU'rE tHe ReAsOn iT cRiEs)
Goodra is ugly and the psuedo legend title should've gone to Noviern
Vivillion is the cutest thing ever and the pattern thing is cool
USUM are the best games
Goodra is ugly and the psuedo legend title should've gone to Noviern
Vivillion is the cutest thing ever and the pattern thing is cool
USUM are the best games
Fax
Legit, the whole "Starters are forcibly made to a set personality" since Gen 5 has been limiting, and typically just flanderized by the anime. 5 ironically managed to deter it with the inverse for the anime, but mostly the scheme is already there
same with big head syndrome. RSE was pushing it, but then FRLG blatantly made Charmander and Bulba forcibly bloated
Sobble is both of these. Big head, and flanderized
Since the BDSP leaks have made this a topic of discussion again, I just wanna say no matter how my opinions on that game change overtime I cannot and will not ever give credit to HGSS for "preserving Crystal's additions". The reason for this is simple: What even was there to preserve? Crystal did not make anywhere near the degree of changes to the original the likes of Emerald and Platinum did. Acknowledging Crystal was literally as easy as just shoving in a handful of Eusine and Suicune mini-cutscenes, and you cannot seriously argue that those would be enough to significantly affect the game's quality if they weren't around. I guess there was also the beasts getting remixes of their Crystal-only themes but every remake has remixed songs from the enhanced versions so that doesn't count.
There was the odd egg and certain Crystal encounters like early game Phanpy and Sneasel in the Ice Cave. Granted, HGSS does let you obtain Misdreavus and Murkrow before Kanto, but you sadly can’t obtain Dusk Stone before the E4, meaning you are stuck with unevolved Pokémon unless you trade with the Sinnoh games.
HG/SS also preserved everything nobody wanted it to preserve. Strange, this all feels very familiar.
HGSS actually removed one particularly great thing from Crystal, and that's that they got rid of Kris and replaced her with the inferior Lyra as the girl protagonist.
Kris is the OG girl protagonist and her inclusion in Crystal was a huge, huge deal back in Crystal's release. And she's a great protagonist design, she's just got that proper "Trainer out on an adventure" vibe in her design that really works.
HGSS for whatever goddamn reason decided to replace her with the infinitely inferior Lyra, who while by no means a bad design, is by all means a step down from Kris and also does a huge disservice to her since Kris was the very first girl protagonist in the Pokemon series and the ORIGINAL: such disrespect! Lyra isn't a bad design, per se, but she definitely doesn't have that Trainer out on an adventure to catch Pokemon and battle vibe that Kris nailed, and she's also inferior to Ethan/Gold who is also a peak protagonist design in and of himself.
That was an utter disservice to one of the biggest things Crystal introduced, I mean Kris deserves to be treated better than that. HGSS completely disrespected Kris and her legacy.
Kris is the OG girl protagonist and her inclusion in Crystal was a huge, huge deal back in Crystal's release. And she's a great protagonist design, she's just got that proper "Trainer out on an adventure" vibe in her design that really works.
HGSS for whatever goddamn reason decided to replace her with the infinitely inferior Lyra, who while by no means a bad design, is by all means a step down from Kris and also does a huge disservice to her since Kris was the very first girl protagonist in the Pokemon series and the ORIGINAL: such disrespect! Lyra isn't a bad design, per se, but she definitely doesn't have that Trainer out on an adventure to catch Pokemon and battle vibe that Kris nailed, and she's also inferior to Ethan/Gold who is also a peak protagonist design in and of himself.
That was an utter disservice to one of the biggest things Crystal introduced, I mean Kris deserves to be treated better than that. HGSS completely disrespected Kris and her legacy.
HGSS didn't include early-game Phanpy, or Teddiursa come to that. Sneasel cannot be caught in the Ice Path in HGSS either. In fact, I'm not sure HGSS retained any of the tweaks Crystal made to Pokemon availability.
We should be grateful they bothered to include the Odd Egg at all, because otherwise it followed GS's distributions very closely.
The Odd Egg from Crystal ISN'T in HGSS, though. The closest thing to it are the slugma, mareep, and wooper eggs you can grab in violet city if you give Primo a certain combination of phrases that are based on your ID number.
That's what I meant to say, sorry if it was unclear.
And yes they did that. They did those very small additions even though they didn't affect the game's quality. So BDSP, are you gonna include such easy/throw away inclusions? Oh, no, you're just gonna keep on following the blueprints of Diamond & Pearl even though Platinum used those blueprints and the sticky notes of what Platinum did are right there and you can easily implement without going off course... no, just ignore those, add in the major NPC's Platinum teams post game and everything will be a-okay!...
I can think the only reason they changed Kris from Lyra is because they suddenly decided the player characters should resemble their mother and, well, Kris has blue hair. We'll just ignore the easy explanation that maybe the father has blue hair (or this is anime land thus that doesn't matter, or who's to say the player isn't adopted and it doesn't matter if they are or not), but for whatever reason they decided before Gen VI that was important thus out with blue-haired Kris, in with brown-haired Lyra. It's the only explanation I can think of.
However, even with her removal as playable character, she should have been somewhere in HGSS. Like, maybe make her a new "normal" rival since Silver isn't your typical Rival. Or if not a normal Rival, maybe a rival for the Pokeathlon. Because it is disrespectful to the first female player character to just leave them out because of a sudden character design philosophy change. At the very least she's in Masters (EX) so not totally forgotten.
I like Lyra. I think she looks cuter. But I never played the original GSC, so that never bothered me. HGSS were my first Johto games, so Lyra is more iconic to me. But you do have a fair point. On the bright side, she and Lyra are in Masters, so she hasn’t been completely forgotten; not to mention her English Dub is Cherami Leigh, one of the greatest English VAs.
Last edited: