SPOILERS! Pokemon Legends: Arceus *Leak Thread*

DrPumpkinz said:
Honestly, seems like a case of Pheromosa. Its marketing and name all pointed to a Pokemon who used pheromones to enamore anything, but then that goes completely ignored in both its Pokedex entries and its moves, instead focusing on its speed, its kicks, and its very unhealthy fear of uncleanliness.
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That did occur to me in writing, but it also took me on another flight of fancy I'd like to share if you don't mind my changing the subject.

What if Springtide Storm is implemented with a chance of "omniboost" in PLA because its intended effects aren't actually used in the game?

Consider that every other cloud genie storm deals in status effects—Bleakwind with frostbite, Wildbolt with paralysis, Sandsear with burn. One might suppose that the Love-Hate Pokémon's unique storm should also carry a status effect (or two), infatuation being the prime candidate and confusion being a close second. The move's flavor text ("fierce winds brimming with love") screams that it was made to spread status of this nature. The catch is that infatuation and confusion are not functional status conditions in its debut game. Hence the move deals in raw buffs/debuffs instead.

Since we can mostly agree the unholy lovechild of Moonblast and Ancient Power would be disastrously unbalanced in a traditional Pokémon game, I'm willing to entertain the idea that Springtide Storm will be retooled with infatuation (Incarnate) and confusion (Therian) status condition riders in future titles. Maybe there is even room for flinching, since flinching doesn't exist in PLA either. It's admittedly all speculation on my part. Maybe it is born out of disappointment in Pheromosa. I just think there are numerous healthier and more flavorful ways to implement a storm of love and hate than what PLA has given us with its very restricted range of status effects.
 
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The omniboost and its flipside, which I think is an omnideboost, is also just an arceus thing because moves that change stats just...work like that in this game, for some reason.
Like Calm Mind is an omniboost in this game.

It's more likely that Springtide will just have a chance to raise/lower something like Special Attack/Special Defense at once, personally.

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Also I gotta wonder, is Calaba meant to be anyone's ancestor? There's so few wholly-original characters in the game I'm always second guessing myself. Same with the restaurant guy who I can only pin down to Cilan (green hair, restaurant) or Aaron (...g-green hair, really that's it) at best so he might just be original too.
 
R_N said:
The omniboost and its flipside, which I think is an omnideboost, is also just an arceus thing because moves that change stats just...work like that in this game, for some reason.
Like Calm Mind is an omniboost in this game.

It's more likely that Springtide will just have a chance to raise/lower something like Special Attack/Special Defense at once, personally.
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I would draw your attention back to this post by sb879.

The internal data remains more specific than what we see in PLA. The game reads Calm Mind as a boost to all attacking and defending stats, but it's still coded strictly in terms of SpA and SpD. To name a similar example, Flash Cannon internally checks for a SpD drop, but the game applies it to both defenses. The data dump makes this distinction for new moves as well: Take Heart deals strictly in SpA and SpD(?), much like Calm Mind.

The trouble is that the same cannot be said of Springtide Storm. Unlike Calm Mind, it actually uses the same stat modifiers as Ancient Power. Springtide Storm is coded to raise the five main stats all at once, even speed. It just happens that PLA processes them both the same way.

Calm Mind being an omniboost is an Arceus thing. Springtide Storm being an omniboost is how it's written.

This is all to say that, if Springtide Storm were to arrive in a traditional Pokémon game in its current state, it would not function like Calm Mind. It would be something far more threatening. Whereas Take Heart and (seemingly) Victory Dance are already balanced for normal play, Springtide Storm is not. It would genuinely need to be rewritten if it were to lose the omniboost, and a rewrite throws open the doors to all manners of change. Maybe the added effect will be brought in line with Calm Mind and Take Heart. Maybe the added effect will be altered to infatuation, flinch, or something else entirely. My point is that these are all changes, all in the same ballpark, and the real question is which route GameFreak will find most sensible from a design standpoint.
 
The Crusade said:
I would draw your attention back to this post by sb879.

The internal data remains more specific than what we see in PLA. The game reads Calm Mind as a boost to all attacking and defending stats, but it's still coded strictly in terms of SpA and SpD. To name a similar example, Flash Cannon internally checks for a SpD drop, but the game applies it to both defenses. The data dump makes this distinction for new moves as well: Take Heart deals strictly in SpA and SpD(?), much like Calm Mind.

The trouble is that the same cannot be said of Springtide Storm. Unlike Calm Mind, it actually uses the same stat modifiers as Ancient Power. Springtide Storm is coded to raise the five main stats all at once, even speed. It just happens that PLA processes them both the same way.

Calm Mind being an omniboost is an Arceus thing. Springtide Storm being an omniboost is how it's written.

This is all to say that, if Springtide Storm were to arrive in a traditional Pokémon game in its current state, it would not function like Calm Mind. It would be something far more threatening. Whereas Take Heart and (seemingly) Victory Dance are already balanced for normal play, Springtide Storm is not. It would genuinely need to be rewritten if it were to lose the omniboost, and a rewrite throws open the doors to all manners of change. Maybe the added effect will be brought in line with Calm Mind and Take Heart. Maybe the added effect will be altered to infatuation, flinch, or something else entirely. My point is that these are all changes, all in the same ballpark, and the real question is which route GameFreak will find most sensible from a design standpoint.
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Oh in that case I think it will be exactly as broken as it reads as and they won't truly care.

It has 5 PP and 80 accuracy and a 30% chance to raise all stats while in its normal form (& if you're using Contrary you dont want this at all) specifically. I can easily see how they'd go "yeah that's fine" and move on with their lives.
 
I like the new status effect from Stone axe and that new dark move. Hope it stays. If stealth rocks deals by switch a little damage and status like... Interesting if they add that effect to Wood hammer, and some more moves in future. We didnt get no new sound moves? What moves could be in bomb and bullet category? Interesting could lack of new abilities and lack of abilities be a sign that we get gen 9 focused on them? Theory with buffed abilities anyone?
 
R_N said:
Also I gotta wonder, is Calaba meant to be anyone's ancestor? There's so few wholly-original characters in the game I'm always second guessing myself. Same with the restaurant guy who I can only pin down to Cilan (green hair, restaurant) or Aaron (...g-green hair, really that's it) at best so he might just be original too.
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This actually got me thinking: what if some of the characters without clear parallels in the modern day are teasers for future characters? I guess only time will tell...
 
DrPumpkinz said:
This actually got me thinking: what if some of the characters without clear parallels in the modern day are teasers for future characters? I guess only time will tell...
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It wouldn't surprise me if they do this eventually, just because it's such an easy thing to do and the series loves referencing itself, though I doubt any of them are necessarily going to show up in gen 9.
I think it's fine for Hisui to have some of its own identity without being tied to call forwards and "we put this in to specifically reference in the next games"


The Diamond Clan has pictures of who I assume are the founders of the village and I find it interesting how apparently they descend in some fashion from an ancestor of Alder.
 
Omegagross said:
I could be mistaken, but apparently GF might internally consider the new Pokemon as part of Gen 9. Their asset index numbers are 1001 through 1007. For anyone who doesn't know, all Gen 1-5 Pokemon have asset numbers (i.e. how their texture files or cry audio files are named) identical to their National Pokedex numbers, but starting from XY, all Gen 6 Pokemon have an asset number in the 700s (Furfrou: 701, Hoopa: 774), all Gen 7 Pokemon are numbered from 801 (Mareanie) to 892 (Melmetal), and all Gen 8 Pokemon are numbered from 901 (Nicket) to 990 (Regidrago).

I personally don't think it means anything significant (I still personally group Melmetal with Gen 8 despite it being indexed as part of Gen 7) and ultimately the line between generations has been getting blurrier, but I found it interesting nonetheless.
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Now that Khu has said DLC is coming I am sure the reasoning for the jump to 1001 was because more Pokemon are coming and they would've gone past 999.
 
Lord Godwin said:
Does anyone remember where's the list of Pokemon in and out Hisui vs Platinum Pokedex?
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In the DP part of the Sinnoh Dex, but not hte Hisui Dex:
Goldeen
Seaking
Meditite
Medicham
Hoothoot
Noctowl
Wooper
Quagsire
Wingull
Pelipper
Girafarig
Azurill
Marill
Azumarill
Feebas
Milotic

In the Platinum Dex, but not the Hisui Dex:
Swablu
Altaria
Houndour
Houndoom
Tropius
Absol (this one surprises me a lot)

In the Hisui Dex, but not the Platinum dex. Bold being ones that, uh, obviously don't exist at the time.
Rowlet
Dartrix
Decidueye
Cyndaquil
Quilava
Typhlosion
Oshawott
Dewott
Samurott
Sylveon
Stantler
Wyrdeer
Paras
Parasect
Kleavor
Qwilfish
Overqwil
Petilil
Lilligant
Teddiursa
Ursaring
Ursaluna
Goomy
Sliggoo
Goodra
Spheal
Sealeo
Walrein
Growlithe
Arcanine
Basuclin
Basulegion
Vulpix
Ninetales
Voltorb
Electrode
Sneasler
Bergmite
Avalugg
Zorua
Zoroark
Rufflet
Braviary
Heatran
Regigigas
Cresselia
Tornadus
Thundurus
Landorus
Enamorus
Arceus
Phione
Shaymin
Darkrai
 
The Crusade said:
What if Springtide Storm is implemented with a chance of "omniboost" in PLA because its intended effects aren't actually used in the game?

Consider that every other cloud genie storm deals in status effects—Bleakwind with frostbite, Wildbolt with paralysis, Sandsear with burn. One might suppose that the Love-Hate Pokémon's unique storm should also carry a status effect (or two), infatuation being the prime candidate and confusion being a close second. The move's flavor text ("fierce winds brimming with love") screams that it was made to spread status of this nature. The catch is that infatuation and confusion are not functional status conditions in its debut game. Hence the move deals in raw buffs/debuffs instead.
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Enamorus' out-of-battle whirlwinds can confuse the player character, so confusion seems likely to me.
 
mattgcn said:
There's a flag! It's Spark, Volt Tackle and Wild Charge.
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I just noticed that Spark has a brand new EffectSequence in the move data. I assume it is for the new effect (paralysis and snapping out of drowsiness), otherwise I am not sure what it could be.

Also, looking at the EffectSequence data for the new moves is interesting, since it reveals what moves were the basis for a lot of them.
  • Mountain Gale is based on Icicle Crash - listed as a flinching move (EffectSequence 31), has the same flinch rate.
  • Shelter is based on Iron Defense - EffectSequence 51, largely the same other than different PP and speed modifiers to offset the addtional Obscured status
  • Wildbolt Storm is based on Thunder and Bleakwind Storm is based on Hurricane - listed with EffectSequence 152 and EffectSequence 333, respectively. I wonder if that means they have perfect accuracy in rain too?
  • Victory Dance is based on Bulk Up - both use EffectSequence 208 and have very similar data, other than the additional Primed status for Victory Dance. Of course, it is also listed as Dance move.
  • Headlong Rush is, for whatever reason, based on Power-Up Punch - Not only do both use EffectSequence 374, but Headlong Rush also kept the punching move flag! This is all so bizarre, since Headlong Rush ended up with a very different effect than Power-Up Punch, and could just have been lumped together with Close Combat instead. Makes me think that Headlong Rush started out as a very different move at first.
While Wave Crash has a new EffectSequence (504), it seems like it was based on Flare Blitz, since it has the (unused) Defrost flag.

There are so many oddities in the PLA move data that I still can't wrap my head around, however. Some of the new moves (e.g. Dire Claw, Sandsear Storm etc.) use the default EffectSequence (damaging moves with no additional effects), even though they do have additional effects.
Magma Storm still uses the trapping move EffectSequence ID, even though it is supposedly a burning move in PLA. Is there something more to it?
Also, I'm not sure why some data seemingly appears twice, but under differently named headers (eg. FPower vs Power).
 
AmbientDinosaur said:
I just noticed that Spark has a brand new EffectSequence in the move data. I assume it is for the new effect (paralysis and snapping out of drowsiness), otherwise I am not sure what it could be.

Also, looking at the EffectSequence data for the new moves is interesting, since it reveals what moves were the basis for a lot of them.
  • Mountain Gale is based on Icicle Crash - listed as a flinching move (EffectSequence 31), has the same flinch rate.
  • Shelter is based on Iron Defense - EffectSequence 51, largely the same other than different PP and speed modifiers to offset the addtional Obscured status
  • Wildbolt Storm is based on Thunder and Bleakwind Storm is based on Hurricane - listed with EffectSequence 152 and EffectSequence 333, respectively. I wonder if that means they have perfect accuracy in rain too?
  • Victory Dance is based on Bulk Up - both use EffectSequence 208 and have very similar data, other than the additional Primed status for Victory Dance. Of course, it is also listed as Dance move.
  • Headlong Rush is, for whatever reason, based on Power-Up Punch - Not only do both use EffectSequence 374, but Headlong Rush also kept the punching move flag! This is all so bizarre, since Headlong Rush ended up with a very different effect than Power-Up Punch, and could just have been lumped together with Close Combat instead. Makes me think that Headlong Rush started out as a very different move at first.
While Wave Crash has a new EffectSequence (504), it seems like it was based on Flare Blitz, since it has the (unused) Defrost flag.

There are so many oddities in the PLA move data that I still can't wrap my head around, however. Some of the new moves (e.g. Dire Claw, Sandsear Storm etc.) use the default EffectSequence (damaging moves with no additional effects), even though they do have additional effects.
Magma Storm still uses the trapping move EffectSequence ID, even though it is supposedly a burning move in PLA. Is there something more to it?
Also, I'm not sure why some data seemingly appears twice, but under differently named headers (eg. FPower vs Power).
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I've been interpreting FPower as "float power" i.e. it's the move power stored as a floating-point number rather than an integer. The distinction is important depending on how calculations are performed (a float of 25 being divided by 2 gives 12.5, but an integer being divided by 2 rounds down to 12 so that the result is also an integer)
 
While it's disappointing that Kleavor having Sheer Force kills the prospect of Technician Accelerock, Kleavor does do something that I appreciate quite a bit.

Some retroactive branched evolutions will involve ability changes (and often appearance changes) that make it extremely obvious that they were later additions to an already-existing family. Gallade is the most egregious example of this. Ralts, Kirlia, and Gardevoir all have Synchronize, Trace, and Telepathy, while Gallade has Steadfast and Justified. It really sticks out like a sore thumb and makes it harder for me to enjoy the family as a whole.

When I first saw that Kleavor had dropped Technician in favor of Sheer Force, I thought they had done it again. And to be fair, they kinda did. Scyther and Scizor are easily the most iconic users of Technician, and it's defined the way they play ever since Gen 4. However, Kleavor is actually not as much of a sore thumb as I initially thought. While it dropped Technician, it kept another one of Scyther's abilities, one that Scizor didn't. It kept its hidden ability Steadfast.
 
NealIRC said:
Apologies if this has been posted. But going back to Khu's riddles about Gen 9 news being in April.

Then for Pokemon day end of Feb., I guess that means we're expecting DLC news for PLA? Boy, can't wait. You know they won't just stop at 242.
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Khu has pretty fervently denied gen 9 being in 2022. He said Centro was “retweeting bs” when he was talked to about it.

So imo it’s probably PLA dlc news in april.
 
R_N said:
In the Hisui Dex, but not the Platinum dex. Bold being ones that, uh, obviously don't exist at the time.
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Of the pokemon in this list, most fit a few categories
-Are Pokemon new to legends
-Are Hisuian Forms
-Evolve into Pokemon new to legends
-Evolve into Hisuian Forms
-Are Legendaries introduced in the Sinnoh games which don't appear in the Sinnoh dex because uh idk

A few extra have some sort of very clear stipulation. Thundurus, Tornadus, and Landorus are all counterparts to the new Enamorus; Sylveon evolves from Eevee and didn't exist until Gen 6.

The only pokemon which don't fit a category are

Paras / Parasect
Spheal / Sealeo / Walrein
Vulpix / Ninetales (Kantoian and Alolan)
 
Ironmage said:
I've been interpreting FPower as "float power" i.e. it's the move power stored as a floating-point number rather than an integer. The distinction is important depending on how calculations are performed (a float of 25 being divided by 2 gives 12.5, but an integer being divided by 2 rounds down to 12 so that the result is also an integer)
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Ah, I see. That's crucial for the damage calc function. Still not sure why there is both a FEffectSequence and a EffectSequence field. Those values aren't integers used for calculations, those are numerical IDs for move effects (likely used in a switch statement with corresponding cases).

DrPumpkinz said:
While it's disappointing that Kleavor having Sheer Force kills the prospect of Technician Accelerock, Kleavor does do something that I appreciate quite a bit.

Some retroactive branched evolutions will involve ability changes (and often appearance changes) that make it extremely obvious that they were later additions to an already-existing family. Gallade is the most egregious example of this. Ralts, Kirlia, and Gardevoir all have Synchronize, Trace, and Telepathy, while Gallade has Steadfast and Justified. It really sticks out like a sore thumb and makes it harder for me to enjoy the family as a whole.

When I first saw that Kleavor had dropped Technician in favor of Sheer Force, I thought they had done it again. And to be fair, they kinda did. Scyther and Scizor are easily the most iconic users of Technician, and it's defined the way they play ever since Gen 4. However, Kleavor is actually not as much of a sore thumb as I initially thought. While it dropped Technician, it kept another one of Scyther's abilities, one that Scizor didn't. It kept its hidden ability Steadfast.
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I'm wondering what moves Kleavor will end up with that can benefit from Sheer Force. Rock Slide will likely be the main pick as the Rock-type STAB, but Kleavor currenty doesn't have access to any physical Bug-type moves boosted by Sheer Force (neither in its PLA learnset or via Scyther in other games). So fingers crossed for Lunge or Skitter Smack in upcoming games.

Steadfast is actually kinda neat for Kleavor, since it is in a pretty good speed tier to take advantage of it. Slow enough to actually get flinched by other pokémon, but fast enough to get any use out of the speed boost. Also, resisting Fake Out is a nice bonus.
 
AmbientDinosaur said:
but Kleavor currenty doesn't have access to any physical Bug-type moves boosted by Sheer Force (neither in its PLA learnset or via Scyther in other games). So fingers crossed for Lunge or Skitter Smack in upcoming games.
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Well to be fair, it's not like bugs really run bug stabs other than U-turn 90% of the time, bug is such a bad offensive type...
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Some retroactive branched evolutions will involve ability changes (and often appearance changes) that make it extremely obvious that they were later additions to an already-existing family. Gallade is the most egregious example of this. Ralts, Kirlia, and Gardevoir all have Synchronize, Trace, and Telepathy, while Gallade has Steadfast and Justified. It really sticks out like a sore thumb and makes it harder for me to enjoy the family as a whole.
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I like Gallade but there are so many things that kind of sour my enjoyment of it. The ability thing is a big one (it’s not like Telepathy or Trace don’t make sense for it?), but not retyping it Fighting/Fairy back in XY such a big missed opportunity! Especially in a region with literal castles and knights. It’s literally a Fairytale Knight!

Not to mention genderlocking it to male is weird and creates this awkward asymmetry with Gardevoir. Like the lack of shared abilities, it just serves to make Gallade feel distinct from and just kind of tacked onto the family. I actually think it’s really cool that Gardevoir isn’t genderlocked despite having traditionally feminine design elements (bonus points for its name literally being “sir knight” juxtaposed against those feminine design elements). But then why would they make Gallade male only? It arguably uses even less gendered design features than Gardevoir and doing so feels like an awkward step back.
 
Idk I'm not usually that fussed about new evolutions and evolutionary branches being 'too different' from the existing line, but I'd absolutely find it jarring and incongruous if they'd retyped Gallade to Fairy/Fighting, given that Psychic has always been the primary type of the Ralts line.

Also, they probably would've then been forced to either give it Play Rough (pls no) or create a signature physical Fairy move for Gallade, which might have been cool but definitely would've taken it further away from its evolutionary line and made it feel more 'tacked on'.
 
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