SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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What kind of veil do we suppose this is? How are people prevented from approaching exactly? Yes, I know, this one's meant to be vague and mysterious, I'm just curious...
Probably your typical "Lost Woods" thing. You enter the general vicinity if the Southern Island, maybe a fog or slight visual distortion starts happening, and before you realize you've been turned around and heading back from where you came with no clue what course you took.

I mean they could also have just tied it to "use Recoil moves X times"
We're talking about the same people who designed Galarian Yamask's ludicrous evolution method.

So I was thinking how weird it is that Cyrus is 27 despite looking way older.

Then I was thinking how creepy it is that the protagonists are all ~11 years old despite looking older.

Than I was thinking how weird it is that 10 is considered old enough in the Pokemon world to leave home and live on your own.

What if humans in the world of Pokemon just age faster than humans in our world?
Cyrus being 27 despite looking older is a point of his character (I forgot who, but someone in the game even mentions the difference between age and appearance so it's on purpose). I think they were trying to get across that Cyrus is such a nihilist about how things are he doesn't care to keep up his personal appearance that goes beyond being healthy. Being Cyrus's main objective is recreating the universe in his image, why should he care when it won't matter if he gets his way or die trying (or, as it turns out, choosing to be left behind in a pocket dimension without space or time or any living creature; alone at last in a world without spirit).

Recent protags I think have been in their midteens. Obviously they don't mention exact age, but starting with the Gen V character which I believe a discussion in an artbook with Sugimori reveals they were designed to be older than previous protags and this looks to have carried over (except for remakes such as ORAS, Let's Go, and BDSP).

There was an interview with Tajiri I think recently where he explained that for Gen I he based it on his childhood experience of him and his friends riding as far as they could on their bikes before having to turn back. I take this to maybe meaning originally the Kanto region isn't meant to be as big as an entire state but more the size of a local network of close communities, a size which one could ride all around of on a bike. Gen II expanded upon that idea as it was based on the next threshold in his life: getting to ride on the train and visit far away cities and towns. While in the actual games you can only go back and forth between Johto and Kanto, in the beta remember that Kanto was severely shrunken down to fit at best as it could into a city space. While later on it was said Iwata helped compressed the game so they could fit a more "complete" Kanto in, I wonder if they did originally want to make Kanto only as big as a city to get across the feeling of you're using the Magnet Train to travel long distances between major cities now. Nowadays the canon seems to be that, though the player may feel they're on a grand expanding adventure, in-world they're honestly not travelling that far or for that long and there's adults all around & safe places to go. Of course no one would ever expect for a kid to get tangled up in a conspiracy by an evil team who are planning on using a Legendary's power to take over the world, but you're just that special you not only do discover it but are able to handle the situation.

As I said, in-world, I think only a few days or weeks pass. Enough time to theoretically fit in all that happened during the main story & post game stuff, but not so much time that the player and everyone around them would have experienced any major aging change.

In Legends Arceus, Pokeballs are a semi-recent invention brought to Hisui by the Galaxy Team, yeah?

And the Noble Pokemon are descendants of blessed ancient Pokemon?

(Hisuian Electrode)

What the hell are you?
What's funny is Laventon only barely comments on it. Voltorb "happens to resemble a Pokeball" and Electrode has the same composition as an Apricorn.
So from what it sounds like it's just a derivative of an Apricorn that serendipitously resembles the later invented Poke Ball.

Though, since the Poke Balls in Legends: Arcues are improvements upon the Apricorn Poke Balls, that means the Apricorn Poke Balls must exist. And the Apricorn Poke Balls were presented as being essentially the "first Poke Balls" as they're just a hollowed out Apricorn. Sinnoh does have a connection with Johto, heck Sinnoh is now the second region to have shown at one point been able to grow Apricorn trees, so could be possible the invention made it over to Hisui. And though it seemingly didn't take off there, it somehow left a mark via Hisuian Voltorb becoming a thing. Maybe has to do with Arceus?

Actually, expanding on that theory, since the plot of L:A also involved Arceus sending the player back in time, I guess there's also the possibility of Arceus deciding to seed (no pun intended) the Voltorb family throughout Pokemon history upon its accidental creation when the first manufactured Poke Ball was made. Why would it do that? Well, with how important the Poke Ball is, or at the very least the Poke Ball symbol, maybe it holds importance to Arceus and by placing the Voltorb family throughout history it may subconsciously push forward the Poke Ball concept into humanity's mind to invent it as early as possible.

Here's some bizarre headcanon for you: Anorith is the result of convergent evolution, and is not actually the direct counterpart to the real-life Anomalocaris.
I know a lot of people who like paleontology hate how GF has botched how old the fossil Pokemon should actually be (since it's not that hard to even search up), so my personal headcanon is that the Pokedex is full of it. Not like we haven't come across a Pokedex entry that seems off or even wrong before, it could very easily be so here or has outdated info that no one but those who use the Pokedex would see (and I imagine actually scientists would use academic notes then a device a regional professor had a few kids help fill out).

Like, maybe the player character was told by some random NPC "oh, that fossil is like 300 million years old" and the player just took it as fact and wrote it down in the Pokedex. Meanwhile I'd say their placement in the history of the Pokemon world is actually identical to their real world counterpart.

I'm more bothered that he attends the same tournament that Red and Blue are a part of. Are Red and Blue the only people in the Kanto League to even see Giovanni? If so, was Giovanni avoiding contact with them since they were in different tournament brackets? Was Team Rocket even that threatening or well known in Unova?
Blue probably didn't know Giovanni was the head of Team Rocket. He just battled Giovanni for the badge (and being Giovanni was more waiting for Red than Blue, Giovanni probably just either threw the match or used Blue to test his team so didn't care if he lost; "there, you won, congrats, here's your badge, now get out of my Gym").

As for Red, being Giovanni disbanded Team Rocket right in front of Red and vowed to start anew, Red would have probably just let him be. As far as he can tell he's not running a criminal organization nor is he hurting anyone, best to leave him to his own devices cause he may very well start causing trouble if pressured.

Or, if you want to look at it from an Interpol perspective (assuming Red reported Giovanni's reappearance to them), this could be the first sighting of Giovanni in possibly YEARS. Sure they could rush in and arrest him, hoping he doesn't get spooked and run away, or they could let him go about his day while they know where he is, having people spy on him, both to see if they could potentially discover anything they'd otherwise have to coerce out of him & to figure out when would be the best possible moment to arrest him.

The PWT is definitely one of those not really canon type deals, in that it absolutely exists in-universe but the full scope of it and how many people are there are not, and Giovanni is just there for fanservice.
Really they should have included Koga for the same reasons (since even if he's not the leader now, he still used to be one) but i guess their "no e4" rule won out over that
Not to mention, if you think about it, the PWT should also have a batch of other characters we've never seen before who were either former Gym Leaders or new Gym Leaders (revealing some of the Gym Leaders we knew had retired). Also there's the issue where some of the children/teenager characters should be either late teens/young adults now.

what did pokecharms trainer card maker mean by this
At the time I remember Pokecharms had quite a big list of custom made trainer sprites, many which were from anime & manga (both well known and obscure). My guess is it was probably either added as a joke & was forgotten about or whoever approved it was sent it as a random trainer sprite with no context and approved it as on the surface nothing looks wrong about it. Now whether people have reported the sprite we don't know, if no one did well they probably didn't know it was even there among the hundreds of other; if it was reported well then its a bigger mystery why it wasn't removed.

Of course, that rhetorical question is placed under the assumption that from the moment BDSP was conceived it was always intended as a stiflingly safe recreation of OG DP with little new brought to the table.
BDSP was very likely an afterthought, the BDSP we know now was created as a last minute decision, DP remakes were originally supposed to look more like SwSh but then turned into Legends: Arceus
That's always been my theory. Though I don't think BDSP was made to appease the "corporate overlords" but rather, after being a bit into Legends development and all the references to Sinnoh being included (notably the ancestors), GF decided that they did need actual Sinnoh remakes so gave ILCA (who had worked on HOME so they've already done work with Pokemon and likely were still available) the opportunity though under very strict guidelines. BDSP doesn't exist to be a remake like the previous remakes, it exists to remind old players and inform new players about Sinnoh and its characters so that they would get *most* of the references in Legends: Arceus. Oh and it comes with a $60 price tag. Oh and even though we have characters who references characters introduced Platinum they're not going to have any of the meaningful Platinum content. #GameFreakLogic

And then Noctowl... it's just an owl. No clock imagery or abilities, no weird leg thing. Most of its Pokedex entries just describe the powers and abilities of real-life owls, with two of them mentioning that it sometimes flips its head around like Kaepora Gaebora when it wants to think deeply, which just seems like pretty standard folklore owl behavior.
Maybe a case of wanting both a cartoony and realistic owl? As R_N noted, beta Noctowl kept with the cartoony aspect of Hoothoot (and I agree with their assessment about the clock elements, they were pretty much added just because of the new time mechanic as Hoothoot was one of the Pokemon used to feature it). But I wouldn't be surprised if some point during development they took a harder look at the Hoothoot line and thought "Hoothoot is cute but only vaguely resemble an owl. Does Noctowl really need to resemble it that closely or could we make it a more mature looking owl?".

The fact that Chuck, a Fighting-type gym leader, gives out the Stormbadge has always made me wonder if (some) gym badges are tied to their town or city rather than their specific gym leader.

The names of badges generally quite specifically reflect the typing of their gyms: Boulderbadge for Rock, Cascadebadge for Water, etc. But there are a few which don't - Rainbow for Grass, Balance for Normal, Cobble and Rumble for Fighting, Fen for Water. And then of course there's the most famous case. Sabrina gives out the Marshbadge while Koga gives out the Soulbadge. Yes, out-of-universe this seems like a pretty cut and dry error. But who's to say the Saffron Gym Leader wasn't once a Poison-type trainer, and Sabrina just inherited the badge? Sure you can make a vague connection with a stormy disposition or a fighter having the ferocity of a storm (Chuck's description is "His roaring fists do the talking" which does bring certain stormy associations to mind). But it's not inconceivable that Cianwood's gym was originally founded as a Water or even Flying gym given its location, and why it gives out the Stormbadge.

We know that several gym leaders have additional duties connected to their local areas - Morty explicitly says that Ecruteak's gym leader has to learn and be an expert on all of Ecruteak's myths and legends, and it's implied that Pastoria's gym leader has to maintain and protect the Great Marsh. So that probably does influence what type the gym leaders of those areas end up being - given the preponderance of mediums and sages in Ecruteak, it's hard to imagine the leader there being anything other than Ghost, Dark, or Psychic. Similarly, considering what's in the Great Marsh, the leader of Pastoria's gym could easily use Poison- or Grass-type Pokemon instead of Water (all of which suit the Fen Badge very well) but it's difficult to imagine a Fire-type trainer being accepted or even interested as the Pastoria gym leader. Pewter City's character is strongly shaped by being a town at the foot of the mountains (the city's sobriquet, of course, is "a stone gray town"); it may be that Pewter City has only ever had Rock-type gym leaders because of that heritage.

Blue, of course, inherits the Earthbadge from Giovanni and doesn't change the name.

Going against this idea is the fact that we do see a badge go from one gym to another. Cheren inheriting the Basic Badge from Lenora would seem to imply that that is Unova's official Normal-type badge and that there can only be one Normal gym in Unova, with whoever runs it having to use that badge. But both these ideas could exist together - Nacrene City has no gym in B2W2, so it's not inconceivable that it simply passed the legacy onto Aspertia.
Ooh boy, a lot to talk about here! Best to go one at a time:
  • Badge Representation: As you've noted, Badges can reference one of three things: The Type, the Town/City, or the Gym Leader.

  • Japanese Badges/Colors Of Kanto: As Siggu brings up, we have to also keep in mind the Badges have different names in Japan. While the Kanto Badges were named after the Gym's Type in English (mostly), in Japan they were named after the color they were. Of course the colors were picked to reference the Types. Won't go over them all as some many are obvious, though I do feel some could be looked into:

    * Thunder/Orange: A bit odd it's not the color usually associated with electricity, yellow, though I imagine with Sabrina's being the Gold Badge they wanted a more unique color.
    * Rainbow: Now in addition to maybe referencing how flowers come in a wide range of colors, it's also a reference to Celadon City's Japanese name: Tamamushi City. "Tamamushi-iro" refers to a specific shade of green that certain Jewel Beetles are. So it's understandable why the English translator would choose a shade of green. However a thing about Jewel Beetles is that their shells are iridescent; while green seems to be their base color, in the light their shells will flash a whole spectrum of colors (which also slightly goes into the City's theme of being a sort of cultural center of Kanto). Hence why Celadon's Badge is the Rainbow Badge.
    * Soul/Pink & Marsh/Gold: First off, note the "mix-up" thing only refers to the English names of the Badges. Makes more sense for the poisonous ninja to be associated with marshes and the powerful psychic with the soul. Also, while "Soul" would reference Sabrina's Type specialty, Marsh may have have been picked as it could be stretched to fit all three criteria: Marshes have certain poisonous/acidic aspects to them, Fuchsia City (and the connected Safari Zone) has a few ponds in it possibly hinting it to be close to a wetland, and wetlands like marshes and swamps would be pretty ideal locations for a ninja to stealth around. So, why "Pink" in the Japanese version? Well, buckle up for this one. The "Pink" the Japanese Badge is referencing isn't exactly the English pink. The Japanese "pink" in this case is the color associated with the peach blossom. Peaches are member of the Prunus genus which includes apricots. Why did I just include that random fact? Because Koga's Japanese name is "Kyo", which is the apricots Japanese name. BTW Koga's Badge isn't a heart, it's supposed to be in a shape of Tabi socks which have been associated with ninjas, yet another example of the badge referencing the Gym Leader aside from name. Thankfully where "Gold" comes from is more simple: for some reason, gold is just associated with psychic powers in the Pokemon franchise; my best guess why that is maybe because the occult has ties with alchemy and one of alchemy's goals was making gold out of lead.
    * Earth/Green: While an obvious connection between Ground representing Earth thus nature thus green color, I'm more curious was it always the Green Badge from the start. Cause it would make more sense to give the Grass-type Gym Leader the Green Badge, and the reason she doesn't is because they chose to have her Badge represent the name of the Gym's City instead. So was it always the case Erika gave the Rainbow Badge and Giovanni the Green Badge or did Erika originally have a green badge, they got to Giovanni, realized the color that would make most sense in brown, and decided for a more memorable badge and checked with other color they could give him instead, coming to green by making Erika's badge reference Celadon's name (in Japanese).

  • Gym Type Change/Storming Chuck: Very true, it's a reasonable idea that, while probably first needs to be approved by the League, that a Gym can change its Type specialty if it switches Gym Leader. But, then again, it would also come to reason that the new Gym Leader would then introduce a new Badge that more represents them & their Type. Chuck's Badge is a closed fist, that's definitely a Badge designed for a Fighting-type Gym. Why would he then keep an old Badge's name instead of calling the new badge something like the "Fist" or "Martial" Badge? This combined with the Japanese name being "Shock Badge" (which I guess is in reference to a shockwave or simply striking your opponent so hard that you physically stun them) means I think the name of the Badge is just referencing Chuck's "roaring" personality. Actually, this reminds me that there is a Fighting-type Move called "Storm Throw" (it was actually Throh's Signature Move). I checked its Japanese name which not only is "Mountain Throw" but leads to a link which reveals that is actually a name of a throw used in Judo. Now I think Chuck is meant to be more of a karate expert though he could have partook in some Judo on the side, looks strong enough he can throw someone around (infact when you meet him in the Johto games he throws a big rock next to him to show how strong he is).

  • Blue Holding Down The Gym: Blue becoming the Viridian Gym Leader always felt like something he was doing on the side. Like, it wasn't until Let's Go he really showed any enthusiasm about the position, before then he was more focused on having been a Kanto Champion. And even though Let's Go has him proudly proclaiming to be the Gym Leader for now on, I can also see that just being proud boasting at the moment (also Let's Go is a different timeline). Heck, we know Blue isn't Gym Leader anymore because he became the co-leader of Alola's Battle Tree alongside Red. So I don't think we can really count how Blue handled taking over the Viridian Gym since, at least in the core series, he wasn't too invested in it so didn't really change much. Also Blue taking over was a joke in the original Japanese as Blue's Japanese name is Green. So we have Green giving out the Green Badge, which fits with his personality as he can be egotistical.

  • Basic Cheren: I don't think its that the Basic Badge is "the Unova Normal Badge" but rather the Basic Badge fits both Lenora and Cheren. The Basic Badge is based on a (spine of a) book, it's a Badge that doesn't reference its Type but the Gym Leader (and maybe the location you get it, but not the City/Town entirely). For Lenora it fits with her being a museum curator and her Gym being a library. For Cheren it fits as he originally was depicted as the studious type in BW and he's the head teacher of Aspertia's Trainer School. With Lenora retiring (likely to spend more time on her work and hobbies), my guess is that Cheren simply asked Lenora if he could give out the Basic Badge feeling it suits him both in character and that he's the new Normal-type Gym Leader. Cheren likely could have created a new Badge, but he already saw an appropriate Badge existed and is not being used.
On the topic of gyms, what word do people in the Pokemon world use when referring to places where people (or I guess Pokemon too) work out and exercise? There are a few dojos dotted around, but that carries connotations of martial arts as opposed to more general fitness. Does that distinction not exist in the Pokemon world? Or do they still refer to fitness places as gyms and differentiate them from capital-G Gyms through context?
Well if they don't want to use Gym I guess they could use "Fitness Center" or "Health Club"? But I don't think anything is wrong with also calling it a Gym. Maybe a "Fitness Gym" or "Workout Gym" if there must be a difference. I also imagine context would make it clear what someone means when they're going to the "Gym" which one they mean.

Yesterday, I was thinking about a couple of European localisation changes in Pokémon games:
  • They removed part of the ledge in Victory Road B1F in Ruby and Sapphire.
  • We all know about Registeel in Diamond & Pearl.
But wait! There's more! These are only the case in non-English European versions. Why would they program it that way? Does Game Freak have something against the British? The Diamond & Pearl one particularly baffles me, because at least it seems like RSE only had one language per cartridge:

...So it's possible that the version sold in the UK has exactly the same ROM as the American version.
Very likely the same ROM (in UK versions have they ever used the UK version of words instead of the English, like the Department Store having a "life" instead of an "elevator"). Not only that, but since they're either likely the same ROM or close enough it only took a few days to make the UK version, they likely would have the alpha version ready to be sent out if not packaged. Therefore if they make any European changes and want it to be in the UK version they would have to recall all the copies, some which have likely already been shipped. They would likely just replace them with new carts, but the question then becomes what do they recall with the recalled carts? Do they go through the process of unpackaging them (possibly having to discard the package), reprogramming the cart, and then re-package? Or would they just destroy them as reprogramming would be a major hassle. So, yeah, guessing thy just decide the changes aren't big enough to outweigh the cost of a recall.

Someone on the production team might have had a long memory.
Reminds me how the music for HGSS's Pokewalker & Let's Go's Communication Channel is the printing error music for the GB Printer and XY's Victory Road is an unused Gen I track that might have been met as a leitmotif for Giovanni when you encounter him:


There's one animal that hasn't been retconned out of Pokémon: coral. It's appeared in games from at least Ruby and Sapphire to as recent as New Pokémon Snap, where it co-exists with Corsola. They probably got away with it because corals are basically wannabe plants, but I like making observations.
All coral are actually really old Corsola. Corsola keep on growing and growing as they age and, unless their branches are cut off, they eventually get to a state where they're so overgrown they regress into a sedimentary life style on the ocean floor losing their limbs, face, and organs.

FINALLY CAUGHT UP! And I did so because I came across a new mystery:

An old 2021 Pokemon merch collab was brought to my attention. It was called "Gararu Nyasunohi" (which I think translates to Galarian Meowth Day?) and the idea behind it was Galarian Meowth inviting a batch of the other cat Pokemon to hang out. In addition to Galarian Meowth and Perrserker we got your usual suspects like normal Meowth (to have a Gen 1 rep), Skitty, Glameow, Purrloin, Espurr, and Litten. Missing a gen 2 rep, they included Sneasel which has enough cat-like traits to pass. And with that we have every gen represented... so then comes the oddball. If you click the link you'll see the art drawn by the collab artist, Kino Takahashi, and you may notice a random Trubbish has been included. But it's not just in the drawing, the collab merch does indeed include Trubbish.

So is Trubbish a cat Poekmon? Were the trash bag ties also supposed to double as cat ears and we never got it? Or is there another reason why it was included, like it's Kino Takahashi's favorite Pokemon?
 
Very likely the same ROM (in UK versions have they ever used the UK version of words instead of the English, like the Department Store having a "life" instead of an "elevator"). Not only that, but since they're either likely the same ROM or close enough it only took a few days to make the UK version, they likely would have the alpha version ready to be sent out if not packaged. Therefore if they make any European changes and want it to be in the UK version they would have to recall all the copies, some which have likely already been shipped. They would likely just replace them with new carts, but the question then becomes what do they recall with the recalled carts? Do they go through the process of unpackaging them (possibly having to discard the package), reprogramming the cart, and then re-package? Or would they just destroy them as reprogramming would be a major hassle. So, yeah, guessing thy just decide the changes aren't big enough to outweigh the cost of a recall.
That makes sense for Ruby and Sapphire, but every DS game released in Europe has all its languages on one cartridge.
 
There's one animal that hasn't been retconned out of Pokémon: coral. It's appeared in games from at least Ruby and Sapphire to as recent as New Pokémon Snap, where it co-exists with Corsola. They probably got away with it because corals are basically wannabe plants, but I like making observations.
i thought earth fish and insects remained as is, especially under the original premise that pokemon are monsters who can shrink
 
The Rotom items that Ginter sells. Did they just fall out of the hole in the sky and he lugged the washing machine, electric fan, fridge, oven, and lawn mower back to Jublife Village? Also, what happens to wild Pokemon when they faint? Do they just fall over and disappear forever?
 
The Rotom items that Ginter sells. Did they just fall out of the hole in the sky and he lugged the washing machine, electric fan, fridge, oven, and lawn mower back to Jublife Village? Also, what happens to wild Pokemon when they faint? Do they just fall over and disappear forever?
the implication is a lot of ginter's wares are from rift and he's just selling weird boxes based on assumption.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
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Also, what happens to wild Pokemon when they faint? Do they just fall over and disappear forever?
I think the whole "Pokemon can shrink and grow" explanation is applied here in that the Pokemon shrink to stop battling. Personally, I just assume the shrinking animation is just standard video game affair and the Pokemon runs away after being beaten unchanged.
If we go by anime logic, fainting in the anime is usually depicted as the Pokemon falling over with spirals in their eyes, effectively appearing unconscious. The games just usually depict their sprite disappearing by dropping down the screen or the model falling over and then shrinking into disappearance, but that's mostly game limitations to portray fainting. In reality they probably just fall over unconscious and it's clear to the Trainer that they are unable to continue battling. Eventually they recuperate and then just continue their lives as normal until another Trainer arrives to either capture them or defeat them.
 

Yung Dramps

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Ok so when people complain about the animations for flying mons like skarm and tropius it's often brought up how it was done this way for XY's Sky Battles but like... is there any actual proof of this? It's an explanation that never really sat well with me simply because Sky Battles are just such an underutilized thing in XY that it's hard for me to believe that the animation department was made to bend over backwards for them. In fact Tropius and Xatu, two of the animations people complain about the most aren't even IN the Kalos dex!
 
Ok so when people complain about the animations for flying mons like skarm and tropius it's often brought up how it was done this way for XY's Sky Battles but like... is there any actual proof of this? It's an explanation that never really sat well with me simply because Sky Battles are just such an underutilized thing in XY that it's hard for me to believe that the animation department was made to bend over backwards for them. In fact Tropius and Xatu, two of the animations people complain about the most aren't even IN the Kalos dex!
No but considering how specific Sky Battle regulations are, it would be mighty coincidental that of all the birds to make permanently airborne it just so happened to land on pokemon like Xatu, who are just never shown flying in most capacities, unless the intent was the flesh out the ability to have more sky battle-capable Pokemon (which yes DOES have trickle down dumb decisions but we don't have time to get into all that)


Wouldn't surprise me if Sky battles were at one point in development meant to be more present and maybe even have a dedicated mode, honestly.
 
Ok so when people complain about the animations for flying mons like skarm and tropius it's often brought up how it was done this way for XY's Sky Battles but like... is there any actual proof of this? It's an explanation that never really sat well with me simply because Sky Battles are just such an underutilized thing in XY that it's hard for me to believe that the animation department was made to bend over backwards for them. In fact Tropius and Xatu, two of the animations people complain about the most aren't even IN the Kalos dex!
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sky_Battle#Eligible_Pok.C3.A9mon

If you look on Bulbapedia's ineligible Pokemon for Sky Battles, all the levitating/Flying Types cannot be used, even if they can truthfully fly in canon, like Shaymin-Sky and Hawlucha. This is proof that the models ( whether they are airborne or not ) determine whether can participate in Sky Battles.
 

Yung Dramps

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The Confusing, Contradictory Conundrum of Overworld Pokemon in Sword & Shield
If you've ever been in discussions about SWSH's development, you may have come across this interview with Ohmori and Masuda on the official Pokemon website. Among other tidbits here and there, the most fascinating part comes at the very end:

"One thing we didn't originally intend to implement in Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield was having Pokémon roaming around in the field. After Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee! were released and we saw how popular the feature was, we worked hard to bring it over to Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield for a lot of the Pokémon and adjusted the balance of the games to make it work."

This passage and its claims have been met with mixed reactions by those who've read it. Some admire Game Freak being so receptive to fans liking a new feature. Others label this a damning indictment against the state of development and the audacity to try to crowbar in a major feature this late. Regardless of how you feel, the simple fact of the matter is this: This statement does not make any sense with what we know of SWSH's development cycle.

1651910209914.png

You remember that series of beta leaks? The latest of which is dated May 25, 2018? Well here's a screenshot of the barely completed Wild Area from one of those betas, and huuuuh would you look at that overworld Pokemon are definitely implemented and being tested, albeit in an obviously deeply incomplete form. Again, while I don't know which of the 3 builds this screenshot is from, at the absolute latest this is from May 25, 2018. I'm pretty sure you can immediately see how flagrantly this flies in the face of the interview claim that overworld Pokemon weren't even a consideration until LGPE released and the feature was praised by audiences. Note that wording by the way: They explicitly say when LGPE released. That right there eliminates the possibility of some kind of internal focus testing for Let's Go in early 2018 or late 2017 yielding positive results from playtesters which inspired the SWSH team.

After thinking over any way to reconcile this massive contradiction I am only capable of concluding that Masuda & Ohmori either exaggerated or flat-out lied about this particular development detail in a misguided attempt to make Game Freak look better. No, this explanation doesn't sit right with me either, it seems just as weird and out of character as you think, but I only default to it because all the alternatives seem even more outlandish:

  • The interviewee(s) had faulty info about development: Only believable if it was some relatively low ranking employee doing the deed, completely impossible for the main producer and director in unison.
  • At some point between the May 25th build and LGPE's release they were somehow having so much trouble implementing overworld Pokemon they momentarily gave up only to get a second wind and work overtime to get it done, motivated by the reception to Let's Go: No. Just no. This is way too romantic and too late in the dev cycle to be realistic to me. If LGPE got it working fine while having to stick to Kanto map design, what could the SWSH team's problem have possibly been?
  • The SWSH betas are an incredibly elaborate hoax: lol
I dunno, is there some obvious explanation I'm missing here? Do fill me in if that's the case.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Maybe they meant specifically for routes? Like, the wild area would have Pokemon wandering around, but the routes would have stuck to the traditional random encounter method.
Maybe? I'd need more detailed info on if the betas corroborate this tho, specifically the May 25 build. Cutting room floor's page on it leaves a lot to be desired
 
After thinking over any way to reconcile this massive contradiction I am only capable of concluding that Masuda & Ohmori either exaggerated or flat-out lied about this particular development detail in a misguided attempt to make Game Freak look better. No, this explanation doesn't sit right with me either, it seems just as weird and out of character as you think, but I only default to it because all the alternatives seem even more outlandish
I'd like to propose a different vein of thought: that while Masuda & Ohmori's statement is untrue, it wasn't necessarily their fault that it was so.

Ultimately, this interview (and others) is marketing propaganda - TPC publishes such articles to promote their rose-tinted narrative of the franchise. For example, this article states things like "We always take player feedback into consideration" or "We always want to come up with new surprises for our players with each new Pokémon game. This is our first time introducing free camera movement in the series, so we're excited to see how our players will respond to it once they get their hands on the games". The first statement is flatly untrue, and the second is incredibly dumb beacuse every RPG that's not trying to emulate a retro style already has free-cam - there's nothing to learn from adding it.

Game development is, obviously, nothing like what they state. It's difficult, with lots of aggravation and conflict due to the nature of a collaborative project. Rarely do large studios not have issues with crunch culture and systemic abuse. GF's horrifically brutal 3 year dev cycle is a clear testament to this. It's sad, but it's reality. But, this is a reality that the TPC doesn't want publicized (obviously).

So what does that all mean? It could mean one of three things:
1) Masuda & Ohmori deliberately modified their statements in the interview beacuse they were conscious of the need to promote GF's image (as you've stated).
2) Masuda & Ohmori gave an interview, but TPC modified the interview statements to better fit their goals for Pokemon's public image.
3) Masuda & Ohmori never even given an interview, and the entire article was crafted by TPC for the purposes of advertisement.

Personally, I would assume it's one of the latter two. In interviews with outside individuals/media, the interviews are similarly rose-tinted, but they tend to always skirt around game development questions. Even when they get pressed on such questions such as Dexit, they'll only make vague statements. It's easier to spin the positives of features than it is to actively spin details on game development. Hence, they avoid it. But, in a vacuum where they can rewrite the narrative at their own leisure, they might be more willing to do so.

Ultimately, it's unlikely that we'll ever know what actually transpired. But, it's important to understand the context of this and future interviews. It's an advertisement, and should be thusly interpreted as such.
 

Coronis

Impressively round
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Maybe? I'd need more detailed info on if the betas corroborate this tho, specifically the May 25 build. Cutting room floor's page on it leaves a lot to be desired
Yeah reading the interview I immediately assumed that it was referring to Pokemon roaming the actual routes, which makes more sense to me. Ofc always take any interview with any current employee of any company with a grain of salt.
 
So why does Porygon2 exist, anyway?

Porygon2 is one of the oldest Gen 2 Pokémon in concept, since an early design of it existed in the Gold SpaceWorld demo from 22nd November 1997... less than a month before Denno Senshi Porygon aired. In the intervening time between then and the games' release, why didn't someone go, "maybe we should cut this Pokémon so we can distance ourselves from this controversy?" Of course, this was before The Pokémon Company existed, so OLM probably weren't breathing down Game Freak's necks... which brings me to my next point.

Porygon has a cameo in Pokémon 4Ever, so what was stopping them from putting Porygon2 in the anime? From what I've heard about the Gen 2 anime, I'm starting to wonder if OLM had no idea it existed.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
So why does Porygon2 exist, anyway?

Porygon2 is one of the oldest Gen 2 Pokémon in concept, since an early design of it existed in the Gold SpaceWorld demo from 22nd November 1997... less than a month before Denno Senshi Porygon aired. In the intervening time between then and the games' release, why didn't someone go, "maybe we should cut this Pokémon so we can distance ourselves from this controversy?" Of course, this was before The Pokémon Company existed, so OLM probably weren't breathing down Game Freak's necks... which brings me to my next point.

Porygon has a cameo in Pokémon 4Ever, so what was stopping them from putting Porygon2 in the anime? From what I've heard about the Gen 2 anime, I'm starting to wonder if OLM had no idea it existed.
Honestly I don't think there's much overlap. It's it's a games=/=anime issue.

Porygon and its evolutions have been restricted to cameos in the anime, but there's nothing to indicate that it was ever intended to be suppressed in the games. Multiple trainers have used members of the line, even in GSC - it's not a hidden Pokemon no-one talks about - and it obviously got a further evolution in Gen IV (unlike Jynx which is a much more concrete case of TPC trying to avoid giving that Pokemon any prominence). It even got a community day in Pokemon Go, which I can say with some certainty Jynx will never have.

It was only ever Japan that really had an issue with Porygon, and that's why it has been kept out of the anime. While of course that filters through to the rest of the world, the controversy clearly didn't reach as far as the games. No one, afaik, has ever complained about Porygon being in the games - it's the anime that was specifically the problem.

Hell, if you want to get all conspiracy theorist about it, someone at Pokemon clearly agrees that the controversy was overblown (though the tweet being deleted makes me wonder who exactly this was posted by).

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Yeah reading the interview I immediately assumed that it was referring to Pokemon roaming the actual routes, which makes more sense to me. Ofc always take any interview with any current employee of any company with a grain of salt.
I would inquire if this was an interview that was officially published in English, or if it was a Japanese-only interview that non-official (relative to Pokemon) news outlets translated to publish about SwSh. The latter case would lend credence to a "lost in translation" take on that statement. Note that all the following I bring up is speculation since I do not know Japanese well enough to verify any myself.

For another example, there's been some recent interview lines circulating about FF16 where apparently a line about "The game is almost complete" that stems from a Japanese line closer to "The game is coming together very well" that someone I interacted with speculated was a misinterpretation to the effect of "the game has come together" or something similar. With that kind of example, I could see a mix up of "field" for a term more specifically referring to the routes at minimum, or even just way more translation-telephone changes of meaning in the interview that could snowball into such a misinterpretation: another proposal I have would be the statements of Let's Go "released" could be referring to a few things if mistranslated.

- Overworld Pokemon were always planned but was fine-tuned based on LGPE feedback
- The plan to release LGPE (i.e. the game getting to a state of being developed for a deadline instead of just an idea they bounce around but don't move ahead with), which could have happened much earlier than the formal release date, and then deciding "if we're doing it for this game why don't we do it for SwSh too?" In this case the positive reception would be because it was big in Go, leading to LGPE being made, rather than LGPE being positively received post-release suddenly prompting the feature
 
The interview was posted on Pokemon.com. It was kind of a brief aside.

Anyway it seems pretty obvious to me that they jsut meant the normal routes. The Wild Area was always being positioned as SWSH's big new thing and it was absolutely designed ground up to have Pokemon roaming around; the betas back this up.

Meanwhile the normal routes clearly aren't fully designed for having pokemon roaming around. They're often fairly cramped, not a ton of pokemon can spawn at once because they just over take your movement. And honestly most Pokemon kind of blend into route grass way more than in the wild area


Like this doesnt seem like a big fuck up mystery here
 
I was just reminded of a question I posed on Bulbagarden a while ago: why is the Pokémon representation in Smash Bros. so limited in scope?

The only spinoffs to ever be represented in are Snap (ZERO-ONE trophy in Melee) and Detective Pikachu (spirit in Ultimate, but I'm guessing it was more to tie into the movie). It can't be because Smash Bros. focuses on the main series of video game franchises, or else there wouldn't be multiple Mario Kart stages. Additionally, the Pokémon spirits in Ultimate were almost all Pokémon species using their Dream World artwork, and non-playable humans rarely got trophies. The only Pokémon items are Poké Balls. Is The Pokémon Company really overprotective of how the brand is represented in crossovers?
 
I was just reminded of a question I posed on Bulbagarden a while ago: why is the Pokémon representation in Smash Bros. so limited in scope?

The only spinoffs to ever be represented in are Snap (ZERO-ONE trophy in Melee) and Detective Pikachu (spirit in Ultimate, but I'm guessing it was more to tie into the movie). It can't be because Smash Bros. focuses on the main series of video game franchises, or else there wouldn't be multiple Mario Kart stages. Additionally, the Pokémon spirits in Ultimate were almost all Pokémon species using their Dream World artwork, and non-playable humans rarely got trophies. The only Pokémon items are Poké Balls. Is The Pokémon Company really overprotective of how the brand is represented in crossovers?
It's likely exactly that, yes. I'm fairly sure Sakurai's named them at one point or another as a company that he has to work very closely with.
Some IP holders are more of a pain than others.
ZERO-One trophy and the Stadiums probably get to be the only special exceptions because HAL Labs were the ones who helped create Smash 64 & Melee.

Although with Pokemon I think "the only items" being Pokeballs, an entire subset of items that has dedicated summons for that one single series, is a bit underselling what they're getting in return lol.

Here's another fun aspect to what can only be considered their strange regulations: Brawl's stickers & Ultimate's Spirits all generally use the stock art you'd expect so you'd expect Pokemon to use Sugimori artwork but...no!
In Brawl every single Pokemon sticker is a render of the model used in the game and in Ultimate's base game all (except for Detective Pikachu) used the "pokemon center" artwork and neither Red or Leaf got to have their artwork and just have their smash renders. The post-release Let's Go spirits were the first time they used any artwork for the games and the SWSH Spirit Event was the first time Sugimori's artwork was used in Smash at all.
 

Pikachu315111

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That makes sense for Ruby and Sapphire, but every DS game released in Europe has all its languages on one cartridge.
Here's my thinking:
  • Start with the Japanese Version (V1).
  • US gets V1 & translates into English (V2).
  • UK get V2 & translates it into all other languages (V3).
  • V3 starts getting packed for UK as copies are sent to other countries.
  • Other countries get V3 though by then some changes have been demanded and are made (V4).
i thought earth fish and insects remained as is, especially under the original premise that pokemon are monsters who can shrink
Normal fish and bugs have been mostly retconned out at this point now that we have a decent amount of fish and Bug-type Pokemon. They also notably try to ignore showing or mentioning meat whenever they cam, though in instances they can't they do imply Pokemon (or at least Pokemon parts) are eaten. Of course they never go into detail about how Pokemon are prepared for legal consumption.

The Rotom items that Ginter sells. Did they just fall out of the hole in the sky and he lugged the washing machine, electric fan, fridge, oven, and lawn mower back to Jublife Village? Also, what happens to wild Pokemon when they faint? Do they just fall over and disappear forever?
In what terms do you mean by your second question?

If you mean what happens in a normal battle when a Wild Pokemon faints, I always imagined the Pokemon's HP isn't how much life it has but rather how much energy it's willing to expend battling before turning running away (and a trainer's Pokemon understands when a Pokemon reaches that point the battle is over).

If you're talking about Pokemon who appear in the Time Rifts, I imagine they're just teleported back to the time and place they were teleported from.

The Confusing, Contradictory Conundrum of Overworld Pokemon in Sword & Shield
If you've ever been in discussions about SWSH's development, you may have come across this interview with Ohmori and Masuda on the official Pokemon website. Among other tidbits here and there, the most fascinating part comes at the very end:

"One thing we didn't originally intend to implement in Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield was having Pokémon roaming around in the field. After Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee! were released and we saw how popular the feature was, we worked hard to bring it over to Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield for a lot of the Pokémon and adjusted the balance of the games to make it work."

(...): This statement does not make any sense with what we know of SWSH's development cycle.

You remember that series of beta leaks? The latest of which is dated May 25, 2018? Well here's a screenshot of the barely completed Wild Area from one of those betas, and huuuuh would you look at that overworld Pokemon are definitely implemented and being tested, albeit in an obviously deeply incomplete form. (...)

After thinking over any way to reconcile this massive contradiction I am only capable of concluding that Masuda & Ohmori either exaggerated or flat-out lied about this particular development detail in a misguided attempt to make Game Freak look better. No, this explanation doesn't sit right with me either, it seems just as weird and out of character as you think, but I only default to it because all the alternatives seem even more outlandish.

(...)

I dunno, is there some obvious explanation I'm missing here? Do fill me in if that's the case.
While I wouldn't put it pass Masuda (and Ohmori) to lie to make GF look good, at the same time there's no reason to lie about something like this.

The only thing I can think of is that what we're seeing in the screenshot is them testing out special encounters, Pokemon who would appear on the overworld. If what they say is true, I could still see those Pokemon having been originally planned but when Let's Go took off and people liked seeing Pokemon roaming around they made it so the Wild Area would not only have those special Pokemon walking around but grass/water/sand would generate Pokemon to wander round like they did in Let's Go. They don't consider the special Pokemon to be the same as the grass spawn Pokemon.

I was just reminded of a question I posed on Bulbagarden a while ago: why is the Pokémon representation in Smash Bros. so limited in scope?
It's likely exactly that, yes. I'm fairly sure Sakurai's named them at one point or another as a company that he has to work very closely with.
Some IP holders are more of a pain than others.
Yup, PUSA (EDIT: Meant Pokemon Company) Pokemon Company is VERY protective even if it's another branch of Nintendo handling it. It's why Animal Crossing generally doesn't have any Pokemon items (with rare exceptions such as a Pocket Pikachu during the GameCube era and a Let's Go promotional event). It's also why Mario Maker's Pokemon sprites do not have any special sound effects or mechanics, they only approved of the sprites and that's probably only because of the Amiibo.

You'll also note that the Brawl Stickers and Ultimate Spirits are only of Pokemon except for Red & Leaf; no other trainer artwork (and while I get why, they could pair a notable trainer with their ace Pokemon).
 
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The Confusing, Contradictory Conundrum of Overworld Pokemon in Sword & Shield
If you've ever been in discussions about SWSH's development, you may have come across this interview with Ohmori and Masuda on the official Pokemon website. Among other tidbits here and there, the most fascinating part comes at the very end:

"One thing we didn't originally intend to implement in Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield was having Pokémon roaming around in the field. After Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee! were released and we saw how popular the feature was, we worked hard to bring it over to Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield for a lot of the Pokémon and adjusted the balance of the games to make it work."

This passage and its claims have been met with mixed reactions by those who've read it. Some admire Game Freak being so receptive to fans liking a new feature. Others label this a damning indictment against the state of development and the audacity to try to crowbar in a major feature this late. Regardless of how you feel, the simple fact of the matter is this: This statement does not make any sense with what we know of SWSH's development cycle.

View attachment 423706
You remember that series of beta leaks? The latest of which is dated May 25, 2018? Well here's a screenshot of the barely completed Wild Area from one of those betas, and huuuuh would you look at that overworld Pokemon are definitely implemented and being tested, albeit in an obviously deeply incomplete form. Again, while I don't know which of the 3 builds this screenshot is from, at the absolute latest this is from May 25, 2018. I'm pretty sure you can immediately see how flagrantly this flies in the face of the interview claim that overworld Pokemon weren't even a consideration until LGPE released and the feature was praised by audiences. Note that wording by the way: They explicitly say when LGPE released. That right there eliminates the possibility of some kind of internal focus testing for Let's Go in early 2018 or late 2017 yielding positive results from playtesters which inspired the SWSH team.

After thinking over any way to reconcile this massive contradiction I am only capable of concluding that Masuda & Ohmori either exaggerated or flat-out lied about this particular development detail in a misguided attempt to make Game Freak look better. No, this explanation doesn't sit right with me either, it seems just as weird and out of character as you think, but I only default to it because all the alternatives seem even more outlandish:

  • The interviewee(s) had faulty info about development: Only believable if it was some relatively low ranking employee doing the deed, completely impossible for the main producer and director in unison.
  • At some point between the May 25th build and LGPE's release they were somehow having so much trouble implementing overworld Pokemon they momentarily gave up only to get a second wind and work overtime to get it done, motivated by the reception to Let's Go: No. Just no. This is way too romantic and too late in the dev cycle to be realistic to me. If LGPE got it working fine while having to stick to Kanto map design, what could the SWSH team's problem have possibly been?
  • The SWSH betas are an incredibly elaborate hoax: lol
I dunno, is there some obvious explanation I'm missing here? Do fill me in if that's the case.
It could also be they just don't remember things properly. It's pretty easy to see a line from "We ought to do overworld pokes at some point, but it's too hard...Oh people really liked Go, we should look at overworld pokes again...seems difficult, but we're going to try adding it to Let's Go and Gen 8...Okay people really liked that part of Let's Go, we're keeping them in all future games" get misremembered 4 years later as "people loved them in Lets Go so we added them to SwSh." Especially with how much things shift during development in general, I think there's a lot of wiggle room before I'd call anything a lie.
 
I'll add that for Brawl, all of the stickers were of the in-game renders of the models used. For Ultimate, they used the Pokemon Global Link/ Dream World artwork for all base game spirits except Red, Leaf, and Detective Pikachu. The Sw/Sh spirits added later used the Sugimori official art instead.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
It could also be they just don't remember things properly. It's pretty easy to see a line from "We ought to do overworld pokes at some point, but it's too hard...Oh people really liked Go, we should look at overworld pokes again...seems difficult, but we're going to try adding it to Let's Go and Gen 8...Okay people really liked that part of Let's Go, we're keeping them in all future games" get misremembered 4 years later as "people loved them in Lets Go so we added them to SwSh." Especially with how much things shift during development in general, I think there's a lot of wiggle room before I'd call anything a lie.
This gets into a separate question of "Would Game Freak have eventually done overworld Pokemon without the influence of Go?". While obviously we can't ever know for sure, my current inclination is a fairly solid "Yes". Maybe it would've taken a game or 2 longer, but in the end I can't help but feel like actually showing Pokemon living and inhabiting the world was bound to happen as hardware advanced and the company got more to grips with 3D design and how it could be used to make the world of Pokemon feel more and more alive, to say nothing of the broader shift of the JRPG genre away from random encounters.

The only thing I can think of is that what we're seeing in the screenshot is them testing out special encounters, Pokemon who would appear on the overworld. If what they say is true, I could still see those Pokemon having been originally planned but when Let's Go took off and people liked seeing Pokemon roaming around they made it so the Wild Area would not only have those special Pokemon walking around but grass/water/sand would generate Pokemon to wander round like they did in Let's Go. They don't consider the special Pokemon to be the same as the grass spawn Pokemon.
If this is the case I reckon they would've been a bit more specific, no? "We originally only had a few fixed spawns in the Wild Area but after LGPE's reception we expanded the scope of overworld Pokemon significantly". Then again the said can be said for the "not originally on standard routes" idea, so...

In fact, now that I think about it I don't even buy into that hypothesis anymore. While often rudimentary the SWSH routes do have instances of fixed Pokemon encounters with special behaviors which seems like something very much deliberately thought out from the onset of design: My main two examples are the Route 2 island Obstagoon and the Route 8 Falinks that march through the tunnels. Yeah at this point I'm rolling with BlizzardHero's hypothesis this interview is bogus lol.
 

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