I’m predicting 70-80. Seems the most reasonable in terms of power.
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- Thread starter DHR-107
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You also have to consider learning the move is not necesary for the mon to tera. It's true that if you teach tera blast to something, the team works in a way that that mon is suposedly your wincon in most cases, but depending on the circumstances or MU, you could also end up teraing something else with no tera blast. The cost of this is sacrificing 1 move in 1 of your mons. Keep in mind that even if you dont have terablast, changing your typing could be enough to guarantee 1 to 2 free turns of extra setup, and that in itself is enough to win a battle in OU.
I still think that some ppl is severly understimating, specially in modern Pokémon games where powercreep became this absurd, where this kind of monsters live in OU, how dangerous is this sudden change of typing for most broken setup sweepers.
No, I mean, consider that Tera Blast is available to every Pokémon (bar the usual gimmick suspects, I imagine). Giving it 90-100 BP would make it a top-tier move of almost every type, even 70-80 would make among the best moves of like half the types out there. I don't think Game Freak would make such a widespread move to be that powerful, because it would make so many other moves obsolete. It would eliminate the advantage some Pokémon have in knowing rare, but more powerful moves of their type. I mean, what would be the point of being one of the rare few 'mons to get Icicle Crash, if literally every Pokémon out there can learn Better Icicle Crash by default? What would be the point of Icicle Crash at all? And thus, pretty much every other physical Ice-type move? Having access to different moves is one of the main things that differentiate Pokémon, and that all goes out of the window if every Pokémon has access to one of the strongest moves of every type once Terastalized. It gives the best option to everyone, which reduces the difference between Pokémon down to pure stats.
Or in short, If Tera Blast is too powerful, it will just outclass every option and make movepool differences between Pokémon mostly void. Hence why I think it will remain at a modest BP like Hidden Power, which faced the exact same issue.
But you’re forced to use your once-per game Terastallization to get said coverage. That’s big. And 70-80 is still weaker than Surf, Thunderbolt, the aforementioned Icicle Crash, etc.
I’ll count up moves per type/category and see if it really would be the best widespread move in about half of them but I wouldn’t think so, with stuff like Sludge Bomb, Ice Beam, arguably Flare Blitz existing. Really the only things I can think of are special Fighting and physical Electric. Maybe physical Flying if you say Brave Bird doesn’t have enough distribution and Dual Wingbeat is worse?
Unless Heatran Teras to Grass, which seems possible.
Also one thing to keep in mind is that Tera Blast is a Normal Type move Until you Terastallize. The point in having a Pokemon with Icicle Crash is the fact that it will have Icicle Crash regardless if it Terastals to Ice because there will be battles where you won't want to Terastallize certain Pokemon due to what your opponent has meaning you won't get that Better Icicle Crash that battle.
I do agree that 90 - 100 is too strong though. Once the base power of Tera Blast goes over 80 then pretty much every normal type 'mon takes it no matter what since they can still use it even when not Terastallized.
So? Have you forgotten Return, a move that existed for 20 years and that every Physically oriented Normal type ran? And that many previously good Normal types fell off like rocks in SwSh because of its removal? If it's 100 power it can function as a proper replacement, and due it functioning like Photon Geyser, potentially also benefit the Specially oriented Normals without Hyper Voice or Boomburst access.
To follow up on that post:
Normal physical: Body Slam, arguably Double-Edge
Normal special: Hyper Voice, Tri Attack
Fire physical: Fire Punch comes close, arguably Flare Blitz
Fire special: Flamethrower, Heat Wave, Lave Plume, arguably Overheat
Water physical: Liquidation, Waterfall
Water special: Surf, Scald
Grass physical: Leaf Blade, Seed Bomb
Grass special: Energy Ball, Giga Drain, arguably Lead Storm
Electric physical: Thunder Punch comes close, arguably Wild Charge
Electric special: Thunderbolt, Discharge, arguably Thunder
Ice physical: Icicle Crash, Ice Punch comes close
Ice special: Ice Beam, arguably Blizzard
Fighting physical: Brick Break and Drain Punch come close, arguably Close Combat
Fighting special: arguably Focus Blast
Poison physical: Poison Jab, arguably Gunk Shot
Poison special: Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave
Ground physical: Earthquake, Stomping Tantrum, DrilRun
Ground special: Earth Power
Flying physical: Dual Wingbeat comes close
Flying special: Air Slash comes close, arguably Hurricane
Psychic physical: Zen Headbutt
Psychic special: Psychic, Psyshock, Extrasensory
Bug physical: Leech Life, Lunge, X-Scissor
Bug special: Bug Buzz
Rock physical:
Rock special: none really
Ghost physical: Poltergeist
Ghost special: Shadow Ball
Dragon physical: Dragon Claw, arguably Scale Shot
Dragon special: Dragon Pulse, arguably Draco Meteor
Dark physical: Knock Off
Dark special: Dark Pulse
Steel physical: Iron Head
Steel special: Flash Cannon
Fairy physical: Play Rough
Fairy special: Moonblast, Dazzling Gleam
All of these have equal or higher (or extremely close in the case of the Punches and Air Slash) power than 80, very good distribution among Pokemon of their types, and no major accuracy/recoil/stat drop drawbacks (except for the “arguably” ones) with some rarer moves like Triple Axel and Brave Bird also being as good. And yes, some of these aren’t common as coverage, but once you’re Terastal, it isn’t coverage: it’s a STAB move.
So overall, the only type/category combos that lack widespread moves stronger than an 80 BP Tera Blast (disregarding “comes close” and “arguably”) are physical Fire, physical Electric, physical Ice if you don’t count Icicle Crash as widespread (a bit more than half of Ices learn either it or Triple Axel), physical Fighting, special Fighting, physical Flying, special Flying, and special Rock, only 8 of 36 type/category combos, and let’s be real Flare Blitz and Close Combat are better than 80 BP Tera Blast, with the 75 BP moves being pretty much just as good. Also note that I said 70-80, so a 70 BP Tera Blast would trim down all but special Fighting as type/categories that lack a widespread alternative. Actually the Punches don’t have that good distribution but it’s significant enough.
Hey, that means Pory-z will be a very flexible Tera user as it would have a main stab better than Tri-Attack regardless of it teralizing or not during the battle.
But yeah I doubt Tera blast would replace the stab of every other type, for example Electivire may get a better Stab but that means your Tera user has to be Electivire instead of Zeraora who would be good even if you are in a game were a Tera electric wouldn't help.
I had not forgotten that. Hence why i said "Pretty much every normal type takes it". There is no way a normal type 'mon would pass up an 85+ base power STAB, physical or special, that also keeps being STAB if they Terastallize.
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Confirmed no. The language is "show its true power" which to me implies (alongside how the move functions in general) its Weather Ball/Terrain Pulse but for Tera Types and will probably be 50 BP unterra'd and 100 BP post-terra
but they haven't actually said as such
You do realise that the checks to the teratyped pokemon change when they teratype right? in case of volcarona, assuming it teratypes into something like ground it
- loses a third on it's fire move's power (and bug if that's relevant)
- gains a different set of weaknesses, which can be exploited by pokemon who could previously not harm volcarona at all
Do you realise that each of those points are actually addresed in the same post you are quoting, and that it is irrelevant wheter Volc loses or not, or gains new checks, since those Pokémon in your team compos arent actually checks to anything nor designed to be so?
To be clear, your Tornadus-T will not suddenly become a check just because Volc has changed its typing. Now it is a +2 +2 instead of a +1+1 because the mon you had in your team designed as a check for volc is no longer, so its either dead or you've to switch again because that mon you were suposed to check is boosting in your face or can OHKO you, and the difference in a real battle scenario is that most of those Pokémon that you can "improvise as new checks" aren't so, because they are either dead or already chipped too (something you wont let your check happen to him, but oh, surprise, those werent checks of anything in the first place, so you didn't care about their HP)
+2 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 331-390 (91.4 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
And now, tell me who your check is in a "real" scenario. The mons you didn't preserve because they fulfilled other roles and there was 0 reason for you to maintain them alive/at high HP after doing their work just in the case Volcarona was the one Pokémon in your opposing team teralizing and also teralizing specifically to psychic type?
Also no, the pokemon that ran Return were pokemon that usually didnt get Double Edge. With Double Edge (or in some cases, Body Slam) they would have rather ran these. It wasn't a case of "return being good", rather a case of not having anything better to run.
And that's a good thing because these goofballs insist on having Giga Impact/Hyper Beam be those janky moves that no one ever uses (besides Lance) even though they've removed most of the type's reliable STAB options, namely Return.
Physical Normal-types SUCK right now. They need something.
80 would be acceptable if Normal mons could get something else, but even at 90, a lot of other moves have side effects that make them more interesting options to run, like TBolt's chance to paralyze.
Also, don't forget, Tera Blast needs to be viable enough for mons to actually use their rarer Tera types, like for example Water Gardevoir. It doesn't learn a viable Water move otherwise. If they went out of their way to create a move just to make these kind of options viable, it's expected that it will be good enough to warrant playing around with that gimmick.
Depends. Not all mons want to deal with all that recoil damage, like say, Snorlax.
I'm hoping the STAB bonus is only ×2 not ×2.25. I hope tera blast is 80 bp max. Pretty sure it will be 80. I don't see it being any more than that. Also hoping the unique mons from arceus legends are in the game but maybe that's wishful thinking because DLC is all the craze these days. I'm not really worried if tera gets banned as I can just play with friends on showdown using custom rules. It would be nice if it stayed but I just don't see it because it pushes too many Pokemon over the edge. Or maybe same type terra only will be banned which would be great alternative. Can't wait for november to come. Also please gamefreak get rid of the 20 minute timer in wifi battles.
We saw a Zoroark-H so we know at least some Hisui mons are in the game
Thats awesome. I did not know that.
Which Pokemon do you guys think would be great to Terrastalize, both for Pokemon confirmed to be in the game and those yet to be confirmed? If Terra Blast has solid BP, I could see something like DD Dragonite enjoying good Flying STAB if it gets in the game, and Avalugg could be interesting since you can finally ditch its Ice Typing.
Dragonite might also like Ground to take advantage of Earthquake, and not being forced to run Tera Blast frees up a moveslot that would be pretty useless when not Terastal. Especially because DNite has very bad 4MSS as is.
Pelipper might appreciate Tera, becoming a non-Water type lets it check stuff that its Water teammates can’t, and it alleviates the horrendous weakness stacking that plagues rain teams.
Steel type Dragonite is going to be hard to take down. With Multiscale in tact it basically has no weaknesses and plenty of 4x resistances. Also immune to toxic and immune to chip damage.
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How is this scenario any different from a regular lure? To use the Volcarona vs Heatran example, how is it different from this:
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Heatran: 332-392 (86 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
In fact, it might even better for the Heatran user if Volcarona tera'ed compared to Scorching Sands, since then it is a Ground type and the Heatran user can use their ground check to check Volcarona, compared to having to deal with a regular Volcarona with a fainted Heatran.
There's no ground check because your ground check is something you keep with you when theres a necesity for it. You don't preserve your ground check healthy against a tera psychic volc (as in the example, which was with a pex not a tran, btw). That's the entire point of it.
It's different by nature; if you scout for an attack you probably have or should have answers should your designed check not work against the mon its supposed to check. That's why it is a check in the first place. But ultimately, you are fighting either against volc or sands volc. You can condition the entirety of your team against that thought and preserve something else just in case.
You are not preserving anything against tera volc (im saying volc but you can change it with anything you want) because volc stops from being volc or volc + ssands and becomes volc + literally any tipe in the game with a free setup at worst. Which, roughly, translates into a 700 SpA mon with coverage and a STAB you cannot know beforehand. So, esentially, you dont know what you are fighting against until its already too late.
But let's just wait until the games release so we can see for ourselves the difference.
The ones who doesn't need Tera Blast will be a bit better. So pokemon with great coverage will be priority picks for Terastal. Dragonite is a good example, and so is almost every Gen 1 pokemon with wonderful movepools, like Tauros for lower tiers, and Mew that can be anything. There are also those pokemon that have insanely high base power moves and don't get stab on it, like Rayquaza and Toxtricity.
And also the dual types who would like to get rid of one of it's types, like Stakataka, Arctozolt, and even Volcanion.
I belive spending a move slot with tera blast will be a last resource for a pokemon to get rid of counters/checks. I mean... Cool your Volcarona get rid of Heatran... But now it has only Ground Stab with low BP. Unless unexpected things happens, like rain water volcarona with Roost/QD/Hurricane/Tera Blast.
There is also the possibility of Tera Blast creating something like Fire-type Magnezone... And this would be boosted lol.
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Don't forget being a pure Steel Type with reliable recovery in Roost, not seen at all besides Skarmory after using Roost.