Aaaaaand Teraligatr just got banned. Thanks to everyone involved.
I kinda get why they did it but wow, what a mess.
Ice-types finally getting a bone for managing to keep STAB Ice Beam without the horrendous typing tho.
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Pokemon Scarlet & Violet - 18th Nov 2022! **OFFICIAL INFO ONLY**
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
I kinda get why they did it but wow, what a mess.
Ice-types finally getting a bone for managing to keep STAB Ice Beam without the horrendous typing tho.
Teraligatr?Aaaaaand Teraligatr just got banned. Thanks to everyone involved.
I kinda get why they did it but wow, what a mess.
Ice-types finally getting a bone for managing to keep STAB Ice Beam without the horrendous typing tho.
I never remember the whole name of the mechanic.
Even if the mechanic gets axed, I like what they did here compared to what we initially thought it was. Changing to a different Tera type would have been really niche, whereas now, its more akin to a straight power-up that will give each Pokemon a different way of using the mechanic. And for what its worth, I do not think this mechanic will result in absolute chaos since not all of Garchomp, Weavile, etc. can use the mechanic at the same time. Now, I'm still expecting the mechanic to get banned, but I think it will be fun to experiment with while it lasts.
I’m really disappointed with the news about how Terastallizing still uses your original STABs.
This really makes the mechanic far less interesting and ruins a bunch of the nuance it otherwise could have offensively.
No longer do dual types have to compromise their STAB, indirecting buffing Pokemon Monotypes and Pokemon with weaker types.
No longer do you have to consider the weight of keeping your original STAB for the rest of the game or nabbing a KO.
And while I still don’t see Terastallizing getting completely axed even with this, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. Pokemon certainly will get banned because of it. You do have to keep in mind that it’s only 1 typing that gets buffed on 1 Pokemon, and the bigger buff is non-STAB.
For comparison;
Flamethrower has 90 BP normally.
Buffed by Z Crystal it gets 175 BP.
Buff by Dynamax it gets 130 BP and has a Max Effect.
STAB makes Flamethrower effectively 135 BP.
Z-Crystal+STAB makes it effectively 262.5 BP.
Max Move+STAB makes it effectively 195 BP and has that Max Effect.
Super STAB makes it effectively 180 BP.
Yeah, there is some nuance given that Dynamax and Tera Pokemon can hold something other than Z Crystals, but Z moves (and Dynamax (fuck Dynamax)) made up for that by removing Drawbacks from moves while not having things like Choice Lock or Recoil, and also bypasses Protect.
With that in mind, I say that Tera is inbetween Z moves and Dynamax, closer to Z moves. I’m still disappointed about it however.
This really makes the mechanic far less interesting and ruins a bunch of the nuance it otherwise could have offensively.
No longer do dual types have to compromise their STAB, indirecting buffing Pokemon Monotypes and Pokemon with weaker types.
No longer do you have to consider the weight of keeping your original STAB for the rest of the game or nabbing a KO.
And while I still don’t see Terastallizing getting completely axed even with this, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. Pokemon certainly will get banned because of it. You do have to keep in mind that it’s only 1 typing that gets buffed on 1 Pokemon, and the bigger buff is non-STAB.
For comparison;
Flamethrower has 90 BP normally.
Buffed by Z Crystal it gets 175 BP.
Buff by Dynamax it gets 130 BP and has a Max Effect.
STAB makes Flamethrower effectively 135 BP.
Z-Crystal+STAB makes it effectively 262.5 BP.
Max Move+STAB makes it effectively 195 BP and has that Max Effect.
Super STAB makes it effectively 180 BP.
Yeah, there is some nuance given that Dynamax and Tera Pokemon can hold something other than Z Crystals, but Z moves (and Dynamax (fuck Dynamax)) made up for that by removing Drawbacks from moves while not having things like Choice Lock or Recoil, and also bypasses Protect.
With that in mind, I say that Tera is inbetween Z moves and Dynamax, closer to Z moves. I’m still disappointed about it however.
- I'm really curious about the in-game clock if it's not tied to the real-life one. I'm not surprised if GF wants to avoid the exploit in SwSh that allows the player to reroll a Dynamax Den.
- Weather that affects the player? Does that mean we'll get the grand return of DPPt's fog and marsh tiles?
- RIP Move Deleter
Day/Night cycle is probably so its easier for people who have a busier schedulle. A lot of people's routines usually makes it near impossible to play during daytime when the game usues an irl clock. Making it have its own indpendent day/night cycle lets people play at both day and night times regardless of how available they are irl
Asfor the weather i'm pretty sure that's moreso meant to mean "The player has animations that react to the weather in the overworl"
B-But Trainer Battles give you money!
*Tommy Wiseau voice* Oh hi, Tornadus/Thundurus/Landorus! Anyway, how's your VGC life?
And apparently, you have to repeat this a few more times.
Prediction time: the big boss of Team Star is a mechanic and former car collector who is an older relative of Penny and sends her to spy on the player's academy to steal Sada/Turo's research papers on the Raidons, so the boss can create their own legendary bike to take over the region or something because they believe school sucks. (Think Mewtwo but as a motorbike.)
I know we've already learned this, but WHY. I'm normally against levelled opponents, but Pokemon demands you be relatively close in level to the enemy in order to have an even fight. Why have an open world and then make the battles far less interesting if you don't go the "correct" way?
Yeah, the clothing bugs me. Everything else with customization sounds great, but limited clothing is not. And that inevitably means when they release DLC with "Spend 999,999 in-game and $30 out-of-game to get this one outfit that isn't a school uniform", every single person is going to wear it. Kommo-O all over again.
Not a fan of the new Tera mechanics. The old way was a tactical decision, where you had to balance changes to both defense and offense. This is just a buff for sweepers. Yawn.
80 bp Terablast is fine. I was expecting Weather Ball mechanics, but I'm guessing they didn't want to risk TB being better than most coverage moves.
The more footage I see of the Team Star fights, the more dull it looks - I mean, you’re just auto-battling ‘mons that do almost nothing besides stand there. The final battle at least offers something of substance, but as is there appears to be very little of substance.
Grunt battles (and Brassius' design) makes me want to see the whips back.
You know how some Trainers in Red and Blue wield whips? And you are planned to fight alongside your Pokémon, until Sugimori IIRC said "wait, that's redundant"?
I don't know you, but against gangsters, it would be nice for the player character to carry an emergency weapon. Not necessarily a gun, but a blunt improvised weapon like a stick, an umbrella, a
For me I'm actually still on the fence about it now since it's still just word of mouth of some suspiciously specific numbers and seems unintuitive. In the end we'll just need to wait for the game to be playable to find out the truth of tera interactions either way since nothing official has painted a clear picture altogether.
Guys no way we actually cracked it
I'm not sure how much nuance and not-just-a-buff-for-sweepers you two expected from "just slap Adaptability on everything".
I think what they actually meant is "there would have been more thought about giving adaptability but losing second stab permanently", while as we know now, there's actually no downside on a teralyze other than the defensive affinity chart change
It does make sense when you remove smogon simulators from your brain for a minute or 2. Think about it: Any pokemon can turn into anyone one of the 18 types, but its also latent, each one attached to a pokemon the moment you catch it. Why would your big mechanic make you get a disadvantage for using it when rng decides your type? There would be no point in using the weirder tera types at all, like say bug, if you had no stab to use it on. Even if theoretically there is some item to swap tera types, its 100% gonna be an endgame item.
Competitvely speaking, as in VGC, you dont get any inate stat or health buffs from terastylizing, and its 2 v 2. Again, why would you lose your stab, especially dual stabs, in such a fast paced environment? GF always wants their mechanic to be front and center, there shouldnt ever be a time where someone goes "Actually, I dont need to use terastal on this team"
Competitvely speaking, as in VGC, you dont get any inate stat or health buffs from terastylizing, and its 2 v 2. Again, why would you lose your stab, especially dual stabs, in such a fast paced environment? GF always wants their mechanic to be front and center, there shouldnt ever be a time where someone goes "Actually, I dont need to use terastal on this team"
People might be underestimating the defensive utility of this change. Being able to defensively change your type to remove a weakness to a specific threat, without the expected loss of power on your counterattack, is something I can see being used to neutralise an opposing sweeper. It's something you can reasonably plan ahead of time (just pick a type that covers your weaknesses), and just the threat of it might have the Ditto-esque effect of stopping your opponent getting too greedy.
It probably won't do much for stall (unless we see gimmicky sets like bulky mons terastalising to Fighting to give itself SR resistance and STAB on Body Press), but that was always going to be limited to specialised uses like giving yourself poison immunity, but this seems like something balance teams might want to do a lot and will get more use out of than HO mons which are often going to fold to non-SE hits regardless,
The scariest things about this change are IMO:
- Not losing your secondary STAB while buffing your primary one, which isn't necessarily a power increase over the expected monotype spam strategy but does substantially increase the number of mons that can pull it off effectively.
- The fact that pretty much any lossless buff is enough to push a lot of mons over the edge from scary to outright broken. (Arguably this was a problem with Megas and Z-moves aswell even with the item slot restrictions, and to some degree it suggests that generational mechanics in general can't comfortably fit into a singles meta that wants to accommodate defensive playstyles.)
- The fact this mechanic has a lot of potential to add lots of 50/50s to the meta and reduce skill expression, now that its usage is less inherently predictable; this aspect, as I understand it, was a huge part of the problem with Dynamax.
It probably won't do much for stall (unless we see gimmicky sets like bulky mons terastalising to Fighting to give itself SR resistance and STAB on Body Press), but that was always going to be limited to specialised uses like giving yourself poison immunity, but this seems like something balance teams might want to do a lot and will get more use out of than HO mons which are often going to fold to non-SE hits regardless,
The scariest things about this change are IMO:
- Not losing your secondary STAB while buffing your primary one, which isn't necessarily a power increase over the expected monotype spam strategy but does substantially increase the number of mons that can pull it off effectively.
- The fact that pretty much any lossless buff is enough to push a lot of mons over the edge from scary to outright broken. (Arguably this was a problem with Megas and Z-moves aswell even with the item slot restrictions, and to some degree it suggests that generational mechanics in general can't comfortably fit into a singles meta that wants to accommodate defensive playstyles.)
- The fact this mechanic has a lot of potential to add lots of 50/50s to the meta and reduce skill expression, now that its usage is less inherently predictable; this aspect, as I understand it, was a huge part of the problem with Dynamax.
Terra types sound insane.
You change your type but you still have STAB to your original moves, and Terra Blast is a base 80 move that can be both physical or special.
Lets look at some scary examples
Cloyster now becomes a ground type which not only lets it put Pex in a bodybag but it still retains its Ice stab. The only thing that resists Ground/Ice are things like Washtom. So yeah, your fck’d.
Volcarona can now choose a multitude of types meaning it is no longer shackled by its dreaded 4x rock weakness. Now it can mow past Tran and Ttar all while retaining two of its stabs.
Gyarados can be Terra Type Water, lose its 4x electric weakness, while blasting out hard hitting Waterfalls.
Azumarill, Belly Drum, Terra Type, nuff said.
You change your type but you still have STAB to your original moves, and Terra Blast is a base 80 move that can be both physical or special.
Lets look at some scary examples
Cloyster now becomes a ground type which not only lets it put Pex in a bodybag but it still retains its Ice stab. The only thing that resists Ground/Ice are things like Washtom. So yeah, your fck’d.
Volcarona can now choose a multitude of types meaning it is no longer shackled by its dreaded 4x rock weakness. Now it can mow past Tran and Ttar all while retaining two of its stabs.
Gyarados can be Terra Type Water, lose its 4x electric weakness, while blasting out hard hitting Waterfalls.
Azumarill, Belly Drum, Terra Type, nuff said.
While I still don't believe Terastal should be autobanned, I think it should at least be played with to see if it is what we think it is, I now wouldn't be surprised if it does get banned 'cus it no longer has the drawback of losing your old STABs which is pretty huge.
I was scrolling through a reddit thread about the previews and I saw this comment that brought up something I haven't seen mentioned yet:
"Multiple previews have mentioned that the Mela fight is actually pretty difficult, with Torkoal having drought and her ace nearly wiping their teams and even one shotting their water types."
Drought Torkoal with a mystery guy who can kill Water types... that's pretty wild for a boss in the 20s ngl
"Multiple previews have mentioned that the Mela fight is actually pretty difficult, with Torkoal having drought and her ace nearly wiping their teams and even one shotting their water types."
Drought Torkoal with a mystery guy who can kill Water types... that's pretty wild for a boss in the 20s ngl
From what I remind, the main problem with Dynamax wasnt exactly the unpredictability, but the fact that Dynamax would also allow a lot of pokemon to just snowball out of control, due to the secondary effect of Max moves.
Anything that could have access to Max Airstream, even without stab, would keep gaining speed, certain sweepers could safely eat hits they had no business to eat with the 2x HP to activate weakness policy, not even mentioning stuff like Moxie Airstream spam.
While unpredictable, as long as Teralyzing doesnt potentially transform *every* pokemon in a potential game ender, it may still not be as banworthy as people make it be, and if anything it may just be specific abusers like Beast Boosters or stuff like that who may be.
(Thinkin of it, suddently Kartana and Pheromosa became 10x scarier actually having good stabs o_O)
I think the idea is that you can explore the enemy base finding items/journal entries/etc without having to deal with a Zubat/Raticate grunt every 10 steps, and at the end your team will have gained some XP, you'll have found items, but you're healed up and ready for the boss fight. All while the base still feels full of enemies.
Whether it works or not is definitely going to be a question, though.
I was expecting:
You can Tera a sweeper into it's own type to stack multipliers(any given Swift Swim mon)
You can Tera a sweeper into a coverage type to hit counters(Dragons into Steel for Faries that don't expect coverage)
You can Tera a mon you need to survive to shore up a weakness(weather setters/set-up sweepers vs priority/weird defensive profiles)
You can Tera a mon to solve specific problems(hazard-setters into Ghost to spinblock for themselves)
Option #1 was already anticipated to be very good. This makes it so that you don't have to give up a secondary STAB to do it. Meanwhile, option #2 is now also really good, since you still have your original STAB and can just have insane coverage. But the other 2 options, which are the ones that involve cleverness, do not care about STAB and are therefore made a lot worse compared to the first two with this reveal.
I disagree that options 3 and 4 don't benefit.
Option 3 benefits because you can now shore up that weakness without compromising your existing offensive power, so it covers you for any situation you already get the KO but need to take a hit first, and it also means e.g. Pelipper can retain its offensive presence without just dying to electric moves.
Option 4 doesn't benefit suicide leads much, but does benefit mons that set hazards and serve any other role, and from what I gather suicide leads aren't really meta anymore. Plus you can always pull double duty -- we're talking about hazard setters turning into Ghost types purely to spinblock, but Ghost is notable for also being one of the best offensive types in the game for three generations running and it's not a terrible defensive type either (especially since there are a couple of good reasons for why Fighting might be a common Terastal type on defensive teams).
Did Mela get Flannery's Torkoal somehow?
You know, the one with Overheat?