SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

I was only considering typing, but fair enough.

Though Marowak-A (and all of the listed Ghosts actually) can just be smacked by what little coverage Toxtricity does get (Snarl/Hex).

There is 4 move slots syndrome right there, though.
Volt Switch, Overdrive and Boomburst are non negotiable, but those 2 moves you mention need to compete with the poison STAB. Poison STAB is useful to deal more damage to certain bulky Grass and Fairy Mons, like AV Tangrowth for example.

Fuck Toxtricity though, it's an ugly Mon and I don't want it to be good.
 
There is 4 move slots syndrome right there, though.
Volt Switch, Overdrive and Boomburst are non negotiable, but those 2 moves you mention need to compete with the poison STAB. Poison STAB is useful to deal more damage to certain bulky Grass and Fairy Mons, like AV Tangrowth for example.

Fuck Toxtricity though, it's an ugly Mon and I don't want it to be good.
Actually Toxtricity doesn't run Poison stab in Gen 8 RU (where it currently resides), it runs Overdrive, Boomburst, Snarl, and Volt Switch.

Also STAB Punk Rock boosted Boomburst outdamages SE STAB Sludge Bomb.
 
I'm also not sure we should be counting Kartana as "potentially capable of taking special hits" even if it does resist.

Despite the low bulk, Kartana's typing is good enough where with investment it can actually live some special hits and threaten back 1hkos. In both Smogon and VGC, specific investment to live certain hits is not uncommon, expecially if it lets it come in and delete a lategame wincon like say, Kyogre or Xerneas.
I got ninjad by Cuddly but you get the jist of it.

Choice Specs Tera-Normal Punk Rock Boosted Boomburst

252+ SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 328-387 (107.8 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The new Dracovish

Snippet about ursaluna

So allow me to do one simple remark about all this crap.

It's pointless. I can go pick up the OU tier list, and i don't even have to go further than A rank to see a bunch of pokemon that would make much better use than literally anything that can be proposed.

You (not ad hominem, just "you" as reader generically) have to understand that pokemon is not a 1v1 game, it's a 6v6 (or 4v4 or 3v3 depending on format).
While using Terastalyze to make a generic lower tier trashmon good against higher tier ones may seem funny on paper, there's always the problem you're investing a team slot + the entire mechanic on it instead of... on a good pokemon instead!
Why would you bring Toxtricity or Ursaluna when you could instead have good pokemon and have the flexibility to Terastalyze Tapu Koko or Landorus-T or Weavile or Urshifu or <insert list from OU>, or in case of Ubers, instead of G-darmanitan or Mewtwo or Arceus or whoever the heck you want?
What is the point to invest a entire team slot + basically mandate the mechanic to be used on that pokemon when you could instead use a good one? You want to make a youtube video about a PU pokemon trashing on low ladder Ubers? Sure by all means do it, that's what certain youtubers do half of the time but I'll be more impressed when you actually do that in a tournament or in VGC, which surprise surprise, these same youtubers bring normal team comps to because they actually like winning, expecially if there's money involved.

On the topic of VGC, VGC is the *only* place where you *may* see dedicated Terastalyze pokemon, due to the nature of the format. For the same reason you see Blast Burn Charizard, or full inaccurate/2 turn moves Dialga, Fly Landorus-Therian and Thundurus, etc, the nature of the format lets you actually leave behind 2 pokemon, so if you have a pokemon that mandates using the mechanic on them but it's a bad matchup, you aren't actually penalyzed.
VGC even saw things like double-mega comps in previous gens, for same reason, you were not penalyzed by having a pokemon that can't function if the other is there, because you can pick which to bring and both serve their purpose in the 4v4 scenario.

But when it comes to Smogon format, you'd be effectively "wasting" a team slot on top of nerfing your composition by not having the versatility the mechanic offers. The payout has to be absolutely hilarious for this to be worth it. There's a reason after all for which for example Mega Beedrill or Mega Pidgeot was never seen in OU: you invested the mega slot in a pokemon that cannot function without it, and gave up the option to run... idk, an actually good mega. Meanwhile Mega Mawile and Mega Sableye actually saw play (Sableye even getting banned in one gen) because the trade off for dedicating the team slot + gimmick to that pokemon was so good it was worth using a pokemon that cannot function without it.
Sure Tera/Dynamax are different from megas since "everyone can use them", but that only makes the problem worse, as instead of 10 competitors, you have a entire tier (or more) of better users than <insert generic lower tier trashmon>.
 
You’d be surprised since Kartana’s most common item in VGC is Assault Vest and that’s 55% usage. For perspective, Life Orb has 15% usage on Kartana in VGC. And most common EV spread is this;
Jolly 68/20/4/0/196/220

Yup. I played a lot of VGC in SM and would often run max Spd and pour the rest to maximize special bulk. Bc it's base SpDef is so low, every single point you put in matters so much more.
 
Ursaluna talk is one of those things that I just silently file away in my "Electivire" cabinet

it just sort of has The Vibe
Well, at least differently from Electivire, Ursaluna actually has stabs that don't suck, so there's that :tymp:

I still doubt it'd be a OU-worthy competitor, there's just a ton much better ground types, but in UU or lower tiers, uh sure why not. I think it's miles better than anything Electivire has going for it.
 
Why would you bring Toxtricity or Ursaluna
Using Toxapex for defensive calcs earlier probably wasn't the best example since I'm thinking more in terms of VGC where, like you said, dedicated Tera Pokémon will be more common.

I'll concede that Normal Tera Toxicity probably won't see much high tier usage since it's so slow but I disagree with your assessment of Ursaluna. I see Ursaluna being quite good in OU.
 
To be fair, Ursaluna does sound devastating vs defensive teams even without Terastal (which I still think will be banned), without being bad vs offensive ones.

Before DLCs dropped and all the f***ing legendaries OU stables returned, both Obstagoon and Conkeldurr were OUs and hard to counter. Ursaluna has higher bulk than both and much more powerful Facade than Obstagoon. At +2, even Skarmory is 2HKOd and ground resistant Ghosts can be covered by Crunch or Fire Punch. Maybe when DLC drops, Ursaluna will fade away, but in early meta it does look like a serious OU threat.
 
Guys, let's not forget about a Bisharp evo that can run superstab sucker punch.

And the new physical Fire/Ghost that is described as "quick" and has stab signature fire-type draining move.
Yeah, quick. And Vikavolt is blazing fast.

I wouldn't put too much stock in flavor descriptions but I don't expect it to be slow either. Maybe 80-85 Spd. 90 with a little luck.
 
I feel like when teambuilding in all formats you're going to want to have at least two 'mons that you're going to prioritize terastalling as part of your gameplan in most situations, kinda like how Dynamax was.
Yes, but the key aspect of this is that it's usually pokemon that "want to", not that "need to".
You want to be "in a ideal scenario I tera this guy, but i can also tera this or that if necessary", not in "i want to tera this guy, and if i can't do that i lose"
 
I’m gonna be so annoyed if Tera gets banned, the last thing I want is for a repeat of early gen 8, which I would consider one of the absolute worst metas in Pokémon’s history.
define "early gen 8" cause that crosses like 4 different very distinct metas, cause imo post dmax ban but pre-home was good actually it was just post-home that was garbage, not trying to derail the thread, just curious
 
To be fair, Ursaluna does sound devastating vs defensive teams even without Terastal (which I still think will be banned), without being bad vs offensive ones.

Before DLCs dropped and all the f***ing legendaries OU stables returned, both Obstagoon and Conkeldurr were OUs and hard to counter. Ursaluna has higher bulk than both and much more powerful Facade than Obstagoon. At +2, even Skarmory is 2HKOd and ground resistant Ghosts can be covered by Crunch or Fire Punch. Maybe when DLC drops, Ursaluna will fade away, but in early meta it does look like a serious OU threat.
My main concern with Ursaluna is that it's basically a slow bulky mon with a mediocre defensive typing... weak to water and fighting is a huge problem even in limited metas is scary.
Its redeeming point is that it's immune to ghost AND electric, but even then, these types usually carry supereffective coverage.

The only scenario where I can see Ursaluna being a OU-viable poke is that the fact it can basically eat will o wisps from ghost types for breakfast, and basically ends up joining Melmetal in the "i'm slow with no recovery, but if you dare take a hit you just die and you *will* take at least a hit" club.

Now, VGC however, this thing in trick room does look legitimately monkaS tier, I won't deny that. Basically Snorlax but better as it can enable disquake combos while also not caring of status and having strong spammable stabs.
 
My main concern with Ursaluna is that it's basically a slow bulky mon with a mediocre defensive typing... weak to water and fighting is a huge problem even in limited metas is scary.
Its redeeming point is that it's immune to ghost AND electric, but even then, these types usually carry supereffective coverage.

The only scenario where I can see Ursaluna being a OU-viable poke is that the fact it can basically eat will o wisps from ghost types for breakfast, and basically ends up joining Melmetal in the "i'm slow with no recovery, but if you dare take a hit you just die and you *will* take at least a hit" club.

Now, VGC however, this thing in trick room does look legitimately monkaS tier, I won't deny that. Basically Snorlax but better as it can enable disquake combos while also not caring of status and having strong spammable stabs.

I think that calling it's defensive typing mediocre isn't really correct, in essence, it's a pure ground that trades a ghost immunity for a fighting weakness, which in singles kind of balances itself out in most scenarios, and pure ground itself is a pretty good defensive typing, a water weakness isn't the best, but it's good bulk and the fact that it doesn't care about burns means that it can shrug off random scalds with relative ease, and while the fighting and ice weaknesses aren't ideal, those alone won't be enough to discredit a pokemon even if they're slow, this pokemon hits harder than conk while having a better defensive profile, it's gonna be ou viable, at least for the initial meta
 
I’m gonna be so annoyed if Tera gets banned, the last thing I want is for a repeat of early gen 8, which I would consider one of the absolute worst metas in Pokémon’s history.
That had more to do with a bunch of things besides the main gimmick being banned. HDBs and Teleport buff contributed way more to that disaster, mostly because they didn’t get banned. Hopefully they get nerfed Gen 9, don’t exist, or Smogon actually takes action.
 
tbf I do think Ursaluna's gonna be a bit of a matchup fish in singles, defensive teams don't really have much counterplay at all but low speed+burn chip is a death sentence vs offensive teams. It benefits a lot more from a doubles format where you can have a teammate like Whimsicott or Amoonguss cover for those weaknesses with redirection/speed control, letting Ursaluna throw out STAB Guts Facades with relative impunity.
 
define "early gen 8" cause that crosses like 4 different very distinct metas, cause imo post dmax ban but pre-home was good actually it was just post-home that was garbage, not trying to derail the thread, just curious
I’m talking home/early isle of armor, where teleport was actually broken and clefable should have been suspected. It seems like the OU council have learned how to handle DLCs quite a bit better, so I’m hopeful we won’t get a fiasco like that happening again. It was genuinely a mess for quite a while
 
I think that calling it's defensive typing mediocre isn't really correct, in essence, it's a pure ground that trades a ghost immunity for a fighting weakness, which in singles kind of balances itself out in most scenarios, and pure ground itself is a pretty good defensive typing, a water weakness isn't the best, but it's good bulk and the fact that it doesn't care about burns means that it can shrug off random scalds with relative ease, and while the fighting and ice weaknesses aren't ideal, those alone won't be enough to discredit a pokemon even if they're slow, this pokemon hits harder than conk while having a better defensive profile, it's gonna be ou viable, at least for the initial meta
Yeah but that was kinda the point I wanted to make: sure while there's limited dex, I don't doubt it may be OU material.
But I see it falling at very least to UU if not lower as soon as "full" pokedex is released and the usual suspects come back.

There's one pokemon that in some way looks a lot like Ursaluna, that's Hippowdon.
Slow ground type, massive attack for a defensive poke, and solid defensive stats. However Hippowdon is kinda carried by having reliable recovery and setting sand which on its own chips enemies and enables sand teams, Ursaluna "as of now" only has being a status absorber on its side. Will likely need something else to be actually strong. Maybe some insane move or access to recovery for example.
 
Yeah but that was kinda the point I wanted to make: sure while there's limited dex, I don't doubt it may be OU material.
But I see it falling at very least to UU if not lower as soon as "full" pokedex is released and the usual suspects come back.

There's one pokemon that in some way looks a lot like Ursaluna, that's Hippowdon.
Slow ground type, massive attack for a defensive poke, and solid defensive stats. However Hippowdon is kinda carried by having reliable recovery and setting sand which on its own chips enemies and enables sand teams, Ursaluna "as of now" only has being a status absorber on its side. Will likely need something else to be actually strong. Maybe some insane move or access to recovery for example.
Considering it gets a ground type close combat, I think that fills the “insane move” category.
 
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