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Metagame Terastallization Tiering Discussion [ UPDATE POST #1293]
- Thread starter Finchinator
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Oh boi I sure do love using Roaring Moon to check Chi-Yu but oops, it turned out to be Tera Fairy and it OHKOd it. S tier mechanic. /s
Oh boi I sure do love using dragonite to check garchomp but oops, it turned out to be choice band outrage instead of bulky rocky helmet and it OHKOd it. S tier mechanic. /s
252+ Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 337-397 (104.3 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
None of those examples are even close lol. Your opponents hidden power type does not literally change whether or not your attacks can even affect the Pokémon.
well tera its powerful, but also on this gen we have some broke mons too that are not banned and that only good answer its a tera pokemon. I have to tested more, but for the moment I think tera have to stay.
if results that its to broke, it have to go banned but fully, that thing of only ban some tera types i think only would makes things harder to understant.
if results that its to broke, it have to go banned but fully, that thing of only ban some tera types i think only would makes things harder to understant.
After playing a lot of games on the ladder (mid low but still having a good time), I'm finding tera to be quite balanced. There are a lot of good walls right now, in Dondozo, Clodsire, Skeledirge, corviknight, etc... And each takes their shot at walling major tera threats, with Dondozo tanking physical sweepers and Clodsire doing well on the special side. I feel it's more of banning rough tera Mons first. Then, if there is a tipping point, and tera is the major issue everyone says it is, then it should be suspected. But, right now, it's fine imo.
Actually, some arguments here made feel that the "Terastal Clause" is actually viable.
I mean, it's not an item like Mega Stone or Z-Crystal, but it is something that can be coded, right?
Whats the difference between "Lucario with Lucarionite is OP for this tier" and "Roaring Moon with Terastal is OP for this tier"? One item, of course. But this item gives +100 stats and new ability. It's complex but it is the only way to try and balance out this system without creating an imaginary item, because it nerfs the abusers not the machanic itself.
A good example of pokemon that is really good and balanced with terastal is Garganacl, usually Ghost. It's different than having a Fairy/Flying/Super Stab Roaring Moon at +2/+2.
I mean, it's not an item like Mega Stone or Z-Crystal, but it is something that can be coded, right?
Whats the difference between "Lucario with Lucarionite is OP for this tier" and "Roaring Moon with Terastal is OP for this tier"? One item, of course. But this item gives +100 stats and new ability. It's complex but it is the only way to try and balance out this system without creating an imaginary item, because it nerfs the abusers not the machanic itself.
A good example of pokemon that is really good and balanced with terastal is Garganacl, usually Ghost. It's different than having a Fairy/Flying/Super Stab Roaring Moon at +2/+2.
ok no wonder... ur playing semi stall or stall.... They are able to take hits and wall threats.. but when its balance or offense trying to revenge those pokemon it becomes impossible.... lets play a game show machine... lets spin the wheel of which of the possible types the roaring moon can be. 25%/33% chance to win depending on what types u consider viable. Like how do you reasonable revenge a pokemon where u have no idea what type it could be weak to. Mach punch breloom sure can deal with it... oh it tera'ed into flying, dragon, or fairy
That is not the point. Games can be won or lost based on a wrong prediction. Many mons in past gens could run multiple hidden power sets to check what the team needed and net useful KO's. Your argument falls short on the simple premise that just as hidden power cannot be changed mid battle, neither can the tera type chosen before the start of the match. Bluffing hidden powers was a major part of the meta that decided many games, that was also an act of concealment used to corner your opponent into situations that favored you.
There are 18 tera types, but the majority of pokemon will only ever run their STAB tera types and 1-2 coverage tera types. If something has a blatant x4 weakness, you should absolutely assume it runs a tera type to beat said weakness. Just as well, concealment of unique tera typings is no different than concealing an item, ability, or move.
As someone who started competitive in gen 3, an era before team preview, this mechanic reminds me of my times playing in the Advanced Meta game. Not knowing what your opponent had in the backline made both players play more cautiously. If there was an unrevealed pokemon in the back line, no choice band user would do something as foolish as locking in a normal, fighting, or ground move on the chance of a remaining pokemon being something immune unless the choice player had a massive lead or it was early in the game. Tera type is no different in that regard. The longer an opponent forgoes using it, the more likely it is something they are saving either an end game surprise or they simply can't use it to get out of a situation. If your entire gameplay crumples because a singular non boosted pokemon changed to a new type, then that shows how little you were prepared and how more prepared your opponent was, and vice versa.
As discussed many times, this creates a revolving door effect which makes tiering tougher. You can't arbitrarily say that one pokemon is a better tera type user than the other simply because it is good at it, then ban it from using it. Because what happens is something takes its place, players complain, and then you start the process over again with a new pokemon.
The reason this worked for Mega's is due to the limiting nature of the mechanic. If the base form wasn't broken, but the Mega was, then ban the mega. This does not work with Tera because the mechanic does not actually boost any stats. A tera Dark scarf roaring moon is no faster than tera fairy scarf roaring moon or a scarfed non tera roaring moon, unless of course the ev/iv's are different.
Terastilization as a mechanic affects every pokemon in the exact same way, no questions asked. Nothing gets a dramatic boost and every mon has access to the same tera types. Therefore, the blame can only be placed on the Pokemon for being good. I hate when people keep using Roaring Moon as an example because the fact is it's a base 590 stat pokemon that is amazing. With or without Tera, its a good pokemon.
At no point did he say he was playing stall, he said that there are walls. Nothing more. Terastilization is not a win button. If you are committing to a specific style of play when you create a team, you are committing to that styles weaknesses as well.
"There are a lot of good walls right now, in Dondozo, Clodsire, Skeledirge, corviknight, etc... And each takes their shot at walling major tera threats, with Dondozo tanking physical sweepers and Clodsire doing well on the special side"
they are all used on the same team.... 3 unaware mons on one team is very anti offense. Yeah but balance also has these issues, so does HO and BO... how do u know what is a valid mon to revenge with if you do not know what is able to counter it
You seem to think my problem is with prediction, that's not true. I started competitive in gen 3 too and prefer metas without team preview, just for the record. Running a different move to deal with a different situation is not the same as having a button that you can press (which doesn't even use your attack for the turn) that can cause your pokemon to change it's type completely. And then also, as an added bonus, this free button allows you to give your pokemon an 80 pwr attack that can also be of any type.
It's like hidden power... just without any drawback and it punishes your opponent severely for guessing incorrectly.
My suggestion is to have 2 OUs similar to how SWSH had one for NatDex and one for not. Just have one with Tera and one without.
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With Terastalization currently legal in OU, if I want to cover all my bases, I've got to build to deal with, among other mons:
I've previously noted in https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...rage-fist-update.3710915/page-64#post-9410390 and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ering-discussion.3711465/page-12#post-9413905 that mons suddenly start having fewer - likely often drastically fewer - checks when they can tech into any single type they want, thus increasing the need to put in multiple checks for the same mon in the same team of mine. Here's hoping these multiple checks for various mons overlap with each other and check larger swathes of the meta between them (e.g. Breloom for regular Chien-Pao and regular Iron Treads and Steel Dragapult, Lokix for regular Chien-Pao and some regular Gholdengo and regular Dragapult, Scizor for regular Chien-Pao and regular Iron Valiant and Fairy Dragapult)! Alternately, you can consider the OU meta to contain many, many different mons with the same species, movepool, and base stats but completely different typings.
Which Other Metagame involves each mon of the same species to essentially be considered as multiple mons with the same movepool and base stats but completely different typings? Camomons! It's a venerable metagame with much tactical thinking and much hand-wringing in the teambuilder that's survived multiple generations and is beloved in enough circles. There are still ways to build decent to good teams in Camomons, the same people pour themselves into the meta and construct those decent to good teams (compare the councils of Gen 7 Camomons, Gen 8 Camomons, and Gen 9 Camomons - note that the Gen 8 and Gen 9 councils have all the same members, with some of those members posting at the start of the Gen 8 thread and/or constructing sample teams for it significantly earlier than the end of Gen 8, but do note that the Gens 7 and 8 councils do not share any members), and it's quite likely that the same people perform well in tournaments (see the winners of these three tournaments - note that the SS Camomons Send-Off Tournament was won by Gen 8 council member Siamato and the Camomons Isle of Armor Launch Tournament was won by Andyboy, Gen 7 but non-Gen 8 council member). There's still set scouting, type scouting, tactical sacrifices, and choosing the right (often Choiced) move for all possibilities of the opposing team when it's your turn. But since there are effectively a metric funk-ton of mons to check in the teambuilder in Camomons and seemingly not enough team slots to check them all, what's their philosophy of how willing they are to throw in the towel for portions of the meta when it comes to teambuilding? See this great post (portion) from Gen 9 and Gen 8 Camomons council member ponchlake (emphasis mine):
- Dragon/Ghost Dragapult
- Ghost Dragapult
- Steel Dragapult
- Fairy Dragapult
- Fire/Ghost Skeledirge
- Fairy Skeledirge
- Dragon/Dark Roaring Moon
- Flying Roaring Moon
- Steel Roaring Moon
- Dark Roaring Moon
- Fighting/Ghost Annihilape
- Fairy Annihilape
- Water Annihilape
- Rock Garganacl
- Flying Garganacl
- Poison Garganacl
- Fighting Garganacl
- Ghost Garganacl
- Ground/Steel Iron Treads
- Electric Iron Treads
- Water Iron Treads
I've previously noted in https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...rage-fist-update.3710915/page-64#post-9410390 and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ering-discussion.3711465/page-12#post-9413905 that mons suddenly start having fewer - likely often drastically fewer - checks when they can tech into any single type they want, thus increasing the need to put in multiple checks for the same mon in the same team of mine. Here's hoping these multiple checks for various mons overlap with each other and check larger swathes of the meta between them (e.g. Breloom for regular Chien-Pao and regular Iron Treads and Steel Dragapult, Lokix for regular Chien-Pao and some regular Gholdengo and regular Dragapult, Scizor for regular Chien-Pao and regular Iron Valiant and Fairy Dragapult)! Alternately, you can consider the OU meta to contain many, many different mons with the same species, movepool, and base stats but completely different typings.
Which Other Metagame involves each mon of the same species to essentially be considered as multiple mons with the same movepool and base stats but completely different typings? Camomons! It's a venerable metagame with much tactical thinking and much hand-wringing in the teambuilder that's survived multiple generations and is beloved in enough circles. There are still ways to build decent to good teams in Camomons, the same people pour themselves into the meta and construct those decent to good teams (compare the councils of Gen 7 Camomons, Gen 8 Camomons, and Gen 9 Camomons - note that the Gen 8 and Gen 9 councils have all the same members, with some of those members posting at the start of the Gen 8 thread and/or constructing sample teams for it significantly earlier than the end of Gen 8, but do note that the Gens 7 and 8 councils do not share any members), and it's quite likely that the same people perform well in tournaments (see the winners of these three tournaments - note that the SS Camomons Send-Off Tournament was won by Gen 8 council member Siamato and the Camomons Isle of Armor Launch Tournament was won by Andyboy, Gen 7 but non-Gen 8 council member). There's still set scouting, type scouting, tactical sacrifices, and choosing the right (often Choiced) move for all possibilities of the opposing team when it's your turn. But since there are effectively a metric funk-ton of mons to check in the teambuilder in Camomons and seemingly not enough team slots to check them all, what's their philosophy of how willing they are to throw in the towel for portions of the meta when it comes to teambuilding? See this great post (portion) from Gen 9 and Gen 8 Camomons council member ponchlake (emphasis mine):
Perhaps the real question we need to ask ourselves when it comes to Terastalization is how matchup-fishy do we want Gen 9 OU to be? Camomons themselves implies to outright admits that it's more matchup-fishy than OU due to throwing in the towel more often when it comes to fully checking mons. And it's quite possible that we ban fewer mons and/or we do not ban or restrict Terastalization if we accept Gen 9 OU to be significantly more matchup-fishy than Gen 8 OU simply because, with that acceptance of matchup-fishiness, we no longer feel the need to bring in multiple checks for the same mon quite as strongly, and therefore we start to ignore that measuring stick for how broken a mon is.
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Banning a mechanic is a very big deal, so it’s important to think through what we know about it.
The first thing that should be looked at would be whether the mechanic is uncompetitive. What does uncompetitive mean?
Using tera as defensive augmentation can also buy a free turn, but it requires skill to be used correctly. A close comparison to this is the pre team preview era where If you had to play more conservatively and cTera Fighting your Garganacl, for example, you can beat Kingambit, yes, but Faries and Roaring Moon’s Flying tera set are now a problem. Once again, this can be a factor in victory, but it has sufficient counterplay if an opposing team is built well, since most pokemon are unlikely to be useless against a single-typed pokemon. They should at least be able to deal neutral damage. I find this generally Competitive, since no pokemon is going to be hard stonewalled by a single type unless a mistake was made in the builder. This encourages good mid ground plays while still leaving room for risk if you so desire.
Augmenting existing STAB is probably the weakest option, but an option nonetheless. Allowing something like Chi-yu or Chien-pao to get a free* life orb boost is kinda dumb sometimes. However, it comes with a price. Tera Fire Chi-yu is a powerful attacker, but it loses its Sucker Punch resistance as a price. Using offensive Tera also requires analysis and game knowledge, even with its strength, and I think it’s Competitive.
Next, we have the unpredictability of the mechanic. It’s more predictable than you may think, since each pokemon has maybe 2 viable tera types. Anything else is a matchup fish, and yes, that may win some games, but it’s just that: inconsistent. A good example is how I use Tera Electric Great Tusk on one of my teams to bait Corviknight and Dondozo, which my team can struggle with, along with the added benefit of an emergency Roaring Moon check. The difference between unpredictability and uncompetitiveness would be if the unpredictability is too much of a factor in games. If my opponent uses Tera Water their Annihilape early on, for example, I now don’t have to worry about Tera on other pokemon. I know some arguments say that “every turn is a 50/50”, but that really isn’t the case. Usually Tera wants to be used efficiently, so using it to win a kill on a random turn on an offensive mon just slows the game down. Bulky Offense and Balance benefit from this the most since BO can take a hit and use the info to their advantage, and Balance can utilize their defensive core to take a hit, scout the Tera, and keep going. If you lose an offensive pokemon, it’s just “oh well”. I’ve personally never played a game where I went “My opponent didn’t deserve to win that” with Tera. It’s more likely a “My opponent outplayed me by preserving their Tera while I used mine early” or “my opponent used their Tera more efficiently”. Using Tera efficiently is a human skill, so it can also be learned when people will us it, and thus it is competitive.
The control of Tera is fully in the players hands. Predictions based off of metagame knowledge can be made, and reminder that there is only one use of Tera per game. Tera has so far proven to be more decentralizing than a broken factor.
For determining if Tera is too offensively strong here is a power table for all of the mechanics off of a 90 base power Surf.
Out of these, Z Moves have the most immediate power, while Same Type Tera, Different Type Tera, Gems, and Max Geyser are all at the same power.
Turn 2 total base power skyrockets for Dynamax thanks to the rain boost, up to 180 instant base power. Gems are now the weakest, and Z moves and Different Type Tera are tied. Turn 3 Different Type Tera is in second, Z Moves and Same Type Tera are tied, and Gems is far behind while Dynamax has a solid lead.
Tera is by far the most skill based mechanic thats been added as a generational gimmick. On paper, yes, Tera does look broken. 18 types, free stab or Adaptability boost, any pokemon, no held item. However, Tera in practice is very balanced, and even acts as a decentralizing factor. First off, Tera has probably the biggest downside out of any mechanic thus far: While yes, you do change your, say Annihilape to a Water type. However, this only changes a few matchups. Ghost and Fairy are now neutral, but you are now weak to Electric and Grass. Fighting is also now a neutral matchup. An example is that you have your Annihilape against a Dragapult. You can tank the Shadow Ball now, but Pult’s trusty friend Meowscarada loves this change since it can now crit through your defenses with a super effective Flower Trick.
As far as ban options go, I see three options.
No Ban
Tera Preview
Outright Ban
No other options have really appealed to me and don’t really either represent the mechanic, in-game mechanics, or gut the mechanic completely.
Personally, the more the meta develops, the more I lean towards No Ban, because of Tera being more of a problem solver than it is a problem.
Edit: wow I wrote so much. Bet I contradicted myself somewhere in here, but that’s a lot of points. I’m gonna go sleep now bye
The first thing that should be looked at would be whether the mechanic is uncompetitive. What does uncompetitive mean?
Above is an argument about what defines “Uncompetitive” from the Ubers Shadow Tag suspect. Now the big question is: “How does this relate to Tera?” Well, Tera is somewhat of an odd case. In theory, it’s a new mechanic that can allow a pokemon to win a free turn in some scenarios that you can decide before battle. Tera’s biggest offender of this is allowing setup sweepers to gain an extra free turn or avoid being revenge killed. How much of a problem is this in reality, though? Roaring Moon is a very used example, so let’s go through its options. Most people argue that Tera Steel and Tera Flying can be used to win it many scenarios, but you have to pick which ones. Tera Flying is strong offensively, but weaker defensively, since Fairy types still hit you for huge damage, and Ice types are still a huge issue. Conversely, Steel lets you beat Fairy and Ice types in exchange for making Ground and Fighting types more of an issue. This looks unpredictable, right? Wrong. Play it from the Roaring Moon player’s perspective. If you come in on an ice or fairy type, you are likely Tera Steel, and a good opponent would know that. However, coming in against a Fighting type is Tera Flying. If you bring your Tera Steel moon in while bluffing Tera Flying, you can win, but it’s not a risk you want to take. If your opponent switches in a wall, like, say Dondozo(which is very common as a setup sweeper on BO teams), either type now has you screwed, as Dozo starts cursing up and doesn’t give a shit about your Tera Flying Acrobatics. In this case, Tera being a factor encourages safer play, which I find to be Competitive.
Using tera as defensive augmentation can also buy a free turn, but it requires skill to be used correctly. A close comparison to this is the pre team preview era where If you had to play more conservatively and cTera Fighting your Garganacl, for example, you can beat Kingambit, yes, but Faries and Roaring Moon’s Flying tera set are now a problem. Once again, this can be a factor in victory, but it has sufficient counterplay if an opposing team is built well, since most pokemon are unlikely to be useless against a single-typed pokemon. They should at least be able to deal neutral damage. I find this generally Competitive, since no pokemon is going to be hard stonewalled by a single type unless a mistake was made in the builder. This encourages good mid ground plays while still leaving room for risk if you so desire.
Augmenting existing STAB is probably the weakest option, but an option nonetheless. Allowing something like Chi-yu or Chien-pao to get a free* life orb boost is kinda dumb sometimes. However, it comes with a price. Tera Fire Chi-yu is a powerful attacker, but it loses its Sucker Punch resistance as a price. Using offensive Tera also requires analysis and game knowledge, even with its strength, and I think it’s Competitive.
Next, we have the unpredictability of the mechanic. It’s more predictable than you may think, since each pokemon has maybe 2 viable tera types. Anything else is a matchup fish, and yes, that may win some games, but it’s just that: inconsistent. A good example is how I use Tera Electric Great Tusk on one of my teams to bait Corviknight and Dondozo, which my team can struggle with, along with the added benefit of an emergency Roaring Moon check. The difference between unpredictability and uncompetitiveness would be if the unpredictability is too much of a factor in games. If my opponent uses Tera Water their Annihilape early on, for example, I now don’t have to worry about Tera on other pokemon. I know some arguments say that “every turn is a 50/50”, but that really isn’t the case. Usually Tera wants to be used efficiently, so using it to win a kill on a random turn on an offensive mon just slows the game down. Bulky Offense and Balance benefit from this the most since BO can take a hit and use the info to their advantage, and Balance can utilize their defensive core to take a hit, scout the Tera, and keep going. If you lose an offensive pokemon, it’s just “oh well”. I’ve personally never played a game where I went “My opponent didn’t deserve to win that” with Tera. It’s more likely a “My opponent outplayed me by preserving their Tera while I used mine early” or “my opponent used their Tera more efficiently”. Using Tera efficiently is a human skill, so it can also be learned when people will us it, and thus it is competitive.
The control of Tera is fully in the players hands. Predictions based off of metagame knowledge can be made, and reminder that there is only one use of Tera per game. Tera has so far proven to be more decentralizing than a broken factor.
For determining if Tera is too offensively strong here is a power table for all of the mechanics off of a 90 base power Surf.
| Gems | Z Moves | Dynamax | Tera(same type) | Tera(different type) | |
| Turn 1 | 135 | 180 | 130 | 120 | 135 |
| Turn 2 | 225 | 270 | 310 | 240 | 270 |
| Turn 3 | 315 | 360 | 490 | 360 | 405 |
Out of these, Z Moves have the most immediate power, while Same Type Tera, Different Type Tera, Gems, and Max Geyser are all at the same power.
Turn 2 total base power skyrockets for Dynamax thanks to the rain boost, up to 180 instant base power. Gems are now the weakest, and Z moves and Different Type Tera are tied. Turn 3 Different Type Tera is in second, Z Moves and Same Type Tera are tied, and Gems is far behind while Dynamax has a solid lead.
Tera is by far the most skill based mechanic thats been added as a generational gimmick. On paper, yes, Tera does look broken. 18 types, free stab or Adaptability boost, any pokemon, no held item. However, Tera in practice is very balanced, and even acts as a decentralizing factor. First off, Tera has probably the biggest downside out of any mechanic thus far: While yes, you do change your, say Annihilape to a Water type. However, this only changes a few matchups. Ghost and Fairy are now neutral, but you are now weak to Electric and Grass. Fighting is also now a neutral matchup. An example is that you have your Annihilape against a Dragapult. You can tank the Shadow Ball now, but Pult’s trusty friend Meowscarada loves this change since it can now crit through your defenses with a super effective Flower Trick.
As far as ban options go, I see three options.
No Ban
Tera Preview
Outright Ban
No other options have really appealed to me and don’t really either represent the mechanic, in-game mechanics, or gut the mechanic completely.
Personally, the more the meta develops, the more I lean towards No Ban, because of Tera being more of a problem solver than it is a problem.
Edit: wow I wrote so much. Bet I contradicted myself somewhere in here, but that’s a lot of points. I’m gonna go sleep now bye
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Well for one, you have to objectively look at the situation. I think it's fair to say that all mons have natural counters and pokemon that revenge kill it. But there have been few teams to exist in the history of the game that have the answer to near everything. And often those teams that did exist now have Pokemon that were banished to higher tiers for that exact reason.
Otherwise, it entirely depends on the game state. If you allow a Roaring Moon to get a +3 DD off and your last bastion of hope too kill it is a priority mach punch from Breloom, then that says more about how the game played out to get to that point than the fact that your opponents Roaring Moon may or may not be Tera Fairy. I think it is safe to say that the longer a match progresses without the use of a tera type, the higher the likelyhood the opponent is using theirs defensively.
Oh there are considerable draw backs too Terastilization, many people just cover their ears and close their eyes and pretend not to hear or see it. Some such are:
1) The earlier you use it, the worse it tends to be
2) No actual stats change
3) Becoming a monotype takes away the benefits of secondary types, as well as the weaknesses (with the exception of STAB). Example: Fire types can now be burned if they Tera into anything else.
Tera blast is also a worse hidden power because including it in a set also means that you are commiting too that Pokemon terastilzing, which you may not want to do, eating up a move slot and taking away needed coverage.
People act like Terastilization always gives you the perfect type to get yourself out of a situation, when the fact is that it most of the time does not. In fact, most people completely ignore the idea of using neutral moves to knock out threats if they can.
As I have said many times in this thread. A singular type change is not an auto win button. It's demeaning to players who play smart about how they utilize the mechanic when others clearly use it poorly. Furthermore, if a game state was left in such shambles because one Pokemon changed it's type mid battle, then that says more about the state of how that game was actually going and the pokemon that were brought to the game. Terastilization is not a mechanic where you can use it turn 1 and gain immediate profit for the rest of the game.
I am not a good player, don't have too much of value to say, but reading this post reminded me of something. The first part of the post makes it sound like there are infinitely more things to cover and account for, but you can kind of tell (or at least eliminate) some tera types from looking at the team composition. If the team already has Rotom-Wash, the Skeledirge is probably not going to be running Tera-Water. Likewise, its not just that the opponent has more things you need to account for, but you yourself have more options to choose from. Its not like you have a selection of 6 Pokemon vs a team of 6 Pokemon with 6 tera types. You have a team of 6 Pokemon with 6 of their own Tera types vs a team of 6 Pokemon with 6 tera types. You too have more options in team building to construct a team to account for different threats, not just raising the skill ceiling but also making a much more interesting dynamic at teambuilding alone. Based on other replies here, such as Advaita's post below, I see more merit and skill potential in allowing this mechanic to shine over OU. I personally havent had an experience where I thought the mechanic was unfair, just that Tera-Water Palafin (now banned) and Tera-whatever Roaring Moon (on the radar) felt a bit unfair to play against.With Terastalization currently legal in OU, if I want to cover all my bases, I've got to build to deal with, among other mons:
...etc., etc., etc.
- Dragon/Ghost Dragapult
- Ghost Dragapult
- Steel Dragapult
- Fairy Dragapult
- Fire/Ghost Skeledirge
- Fairy Skeledirge
- Dragon/Dark Roaring Moon
- Flying Roaring Moon
- Steel Roaring Moon
- Dark Roaring Moon
- Fighting/Ghost Annihilape
- Fairy Annihilape
- Water Annihilape
- Rock Garganacl
- Flying Garganacl
- Poison Garganacl
- Fighting Garganacl
- Ghost Garganacl
- Ground/Steel Iron Treads
- Electric Iron Treads
- Water Iron Treads
I've previously noted in https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...rage-fist-update.3710915/page-64#post-9410390 and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ering-discussion.3711465/page-12#post-9413905 that mons suddenly start having fewer - likely often drastically fewer - checks when they can tech into any single type they want, thus increasing the need to put in multiple checks for the same mon in the same team of mine. Here's hoping these multiple checks for various mons overlap with each other and check larger swathes of the meta between them (e.g. Breloom for regular Chien-Pao and regular Iron Treads and Steel Dragapult, Lokix for regular Chien-Pao and some regular Gholdengo and regular Dragapult, Scizor for regular Chien-Pao and regular Iron Valiant and Fairy Dragapult)! Alternately, you can consider the OU meta to contain many, many different mons with the same species, movepool, and base stats but completely different typings.
Which Other Metagame involves each mon of the same species to essentially be considered as multiple mons with the same movepool and base stats but completely different typings? Camomons! It's a venerable metagame with much tactical thinking and much hand-wringing in the teambuilder that's survived multiple generations and is beloved in enough circles. There are still ways to build decent to good teams in Camomons, the same people pour themselves into the meta and construct those decent to good teams (compare the councils of Gen 7 Camomons, Gen 8 Camomons, and Gen 9 Camomons - note that the Gen 8 and Gen 9 councils have all the same members, with some of those members posting at the start of the Gen 8 thread and/or constructing sample teams for it significantly earlier than the end of Gen 8, but do note that the Gens 7 and 8 councils do not share any members), and it's quite likely that the same people perform well in tournaments (see the winners of these three tournaments - note that the SS Camomons Send-Off Tournament was won by Gen 8 council member Siamato and the Camomons Isle of Armor Launch Tournament was won by Andyboy, Gen 7 but non-Gen 8 council member). There's still set scouting, type scouting, tactical sacrifices, and choosing the right (often Choiced) move for all possibilities of the opposing team when it's your turn. But since there are effectively a metric funk-ton of mons to check in the teambuilder in Camomons and seemingly not enough team slots to check them all, what's their philosophy of how willing they are to throw in the towel for portions of the meta when it comes to teambuilding? See this great post (portion) from Gen 9 and Gen 8 Camomons council member ponchlake (emphasis mine):
Perhaps the real question we need to ask ourselves when it comes to Terastalization is how matchup-fishy do we want Gen 9 OU to be? Camomons themselves implies to outright admits that it's more matchup-fishy than OU due to throwing in the towel more often when it comes to fully checking mons. And it's quite possible that we ban fewer mons and/or we do not ban or restrict Terastalization if we accept Gen 9 OU to be significantly more matchup-fishy than Gen 8 OU simply because, with that acceptance of matchup-fishiness, we no longer feel the need to bring in multiple checks for the same mon quite as strongly, and therefore we start to ignore that measuring stick for how broken a mon is.
I guess to be more explicit with my stance, I am in favour of No Ban.
Gonna link that Advaita wall in the spoiler below since I mentioned it in my comment.
I'd like to preface this post by saying I don't find Tera as restricting as many people say in this thread. People act like this is the second coming of Dynamax when it's not even close. Dynamax was literally a free Power Construct Zygarde with multiple Contrary Draco Meteors... It was absolutely braindead compared to Terastallization and I'm glad it got banned. Mind games are not uncompetitive. They are perfectly fine within reasonable limit. I see Turn 5 in this game the same way I play around something like Z-Freeze Shock Kyurem-B in SM. I can either a) scout / mid-ground around Tera or b) go for the immediate prediction in this case. The fact he brought Kingambit in so recklessly also screams the potential swap to either Ghost- or Flying-type. Here is another high ladder game that demonstrates how you can scout Tera instead of going for an immediate prediction (Turn 25). Overall, the mechanic does have a bit of guessing involved but it's not anything overly egregious like a lot of the "every turn is a 50/50!!!" arguments in this thread are making it out to be. I will demonstrate more of these scenarios in the replay section, but in short I do not think Terastallization is worth taking tiering action on yet because its applications are mostly balanced offensively and defensively:
Adding STAB is one of the most common ways Terastallization is abused-- Volcarona's Giga Drain, Dragonite's Extreme Speed, Roaring Moon's Acrobatics... and a lot of users of this application tend to be predictable! When someone sends out one of the aforementioned Pokemon, any competent player knows what Tera most of these Pokemon settle with. Roaring Moon is the most versatile of all the Tera users in this category, but I would rather see a Suspect Test for it vs banning Tera in order to limit it. Second of all, not every Pokemon has the versatility of a Roaring Moon. I have experimented with unique sets such as Tera-Psychic Volcarona to get past Unaware Clodsire, but overall the set is an inconsistent matchup fish. While one can argue there are "too many possibilities", the reality of the situation is that most people on the higher end of competitive play are not going to pull up with Tera-Bug X-Scissor Iron Valiant, then proceed to sweep you 6-0.
This is definitely a bit extreme so I'd like to display a more realistic example. Here is my Round 2 tournament replay of the No Johns SV Release Tournament. Turn 17 reveals that my opponent's Volcarona has a tech in Tera Blast-Ice. It is clear that the intention of this set is to snipe Dragonite and defensive Garchomp. However, I did not have either of these Pokemon. Thus, all the set really accomplished was get phazed out then die to Sacred Sword later due to how awful Ice is defensively. If my opponent was the standard Giga Drain or Bug Buzz, my opponent could have preserved his Tera for something else and not be forced to burn it off to chip my Ting-Lu. Matchup fishes have existed for generations at this point, and using unique Tera sets still have an opportunity cost (albeit less compared to Z-Moves due to having no item lock). Overall, I find this aspect of Terastallization to be balanced.
Another common way Terastallization is abused is by switching to "S-Tier" defensive typings such as Fairy, Water, and Steel. Skeledirge prefers Fairy as it allows it to function as Unaware Clefable did in previous generations, while still abusing what makes the base form great in Torch Song, Slack Off, and Will-O-Wisp. Even on more niche Pokemon, competent players can predict what typings are most likely to come out. Turn 50 of this high ladder match I played today is a great example. I was testing Arcanine and my opponent made a great play of clicking Ice Spinner, which covers both the possibility of me Terastallizing into a Fairy-type and also the potential Ting-Lu sack. There are only so many consistent typings that defensive Pokemon like to use. The final thing I would like to say is that defensive Tera will not cost entire games. For example, even if Clodsire surprises your Espathra by Tera'ing into a Dark-type, the most it will be doing is dropping a Toxic or 40% with Earthquake. I find this application of Terastallization to be balanced. I actually think it's healthy because of the breathing room it can provide teams not only in the builder, but also in practice.
Offensive Applications - Compounding STAB
The fact that you can basically give any of your Pokemon an Adaptability boost can feel unfair at times. Chien-Pao goes from a great Pokemon to a Suspect Test worthy candidate by Tera'ing into an existing stab such as Ice or Dark. Chi-Yu is another Pokemon that goes from balanced to unmanageable defensively because Tera'ing into a Dark-type drops your weakness to Stealth Rock and allows you to cleanly 2HKO would be counters such as Clodsire. Dragapult is another offender as Choice Specs Dragapult has historically been held back by its low power, but by compounding your Ghost-type stab, it becomes stupid to deal with considering its 142 base speed tier. The only opportunity cost with the latter is you have to drop your Dragon-type defensively, but the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.
While I do find this aspect of Tera to be unbalanced, I don't think it's unmanageable. A lot of Pokemon do lose their ability to consistently counter threats, but this does not effect many checks. Iron Valiant is still revenge killing a Chien-Pao, even if it's a +2 Tera-Dark Adamant Life Orb Sucker Punch. Tera can even be used reactively to deal with these proactive strategies such as Tera'ing Gholdengo into a Fighting-type. More defensive playstyles are effected the worse by this but this isn't anything new. Every generation has playstyles that are more dominant than the others, and despite this, defensive playstyles are still thriving in current SV OU. I have seen many players on the higher end of the ladder using stall, and, as we saw in the SV Release Tournament, balance and BO are very much viable! This is most likely due to us getting 3 new great Unaware users (all of which use Tera amazingly btw); the recent bans of Palafin and Iron Bundle have also allowed for more flexibility in the teambuilder of all archetypes as we can see in z0mog's series.
Defensive Applications - The Best Offense Is A Good Defense
I could not find a simpler way to phrase this so I'm going to start off with an example. Kingambit has been using Tera-Flying recently, even though none of its stabs benefit from it. Why? Because it allows you 1v1 Great Tusk. Annihilape is another good example as changing to the Water- or Normal-type limits the amount of the options to revenge kill it, where the Ghost / Fighting typing would otherwise fall short with its common weaknesses to Moonblast and Shadow Ball. Similar to Roaring Moon, I'd rather see tiering action on Annihilape instead of axe'ing Tera. Finally, we have the aforementioned Gholdengo turning into a Fighting-type to check Sucker Punch users such as Chien-Pao in a pinch. While this form of Tera is very powerful, it's not outright winning games as we can see in the replays below. In the case of Flying-type Kingambit, Great Tusk can still get meaningful chip with Knock Off, while Ice Spinner is a very viable option on its own. This form of Tera is very balanced because the metagame can adapt to it and I'd actually argue it promotes more creativity in the teambuilder.
____
I have only touched the surface of what this mechanic can be used in, and the mechanic is balanced in more ways than it is unbalanced in my opinion. It can be used to spinblock, absorb Toxic Spikes, and many more! I know the council wants to do something about the mechanic before majors but I don't think leaving it untouched is going to make SPL feel any less competitive. Here's why:
Round 2 of No Johns has shown a massive increase in competitive quality. Round 1 was a complete disaster with all the cheese, Palafin, and Iron Bundle, but with these being banned, I believe Tera truly adds something special to this metagame. I'd like to take a small sample size in order to reiterate this and the points I have made above:
Round 2 [Bracket B]
Competitive
Uncompetitive
No Effect
iKiQ vs mushamu
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724353956
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724365543
Game 1: No significant uses of Tera
Game 2: Chi-Yu is able to overload Clodsire due to the initial critical hit. I blame this more on hax because if he did not crit, iKiQ would have no reason to Tera. From mushamu's side, Tera-Flying Roaring Moon, a standard set, is accounted for in both iKiQ's teambuilding and plays here. The second critical hit was annoying, but most likely would not have mattered with Helmet Garchomp in the back. Even with Tera, I don't think there were any overly unbalanced sequence of plays in this game.
velvet vs Lusa
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724584897-gwtwmf5e845732jo952tq5srtsiefl1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724604689-udm3pf6jc7lt6e62pn1w0s6390rwfobpw
Game 1: Iron Valiant's Tera here allows Lusa to avoid a potential speed tie kill from velvet's Iron Valiant. Tera is a major factor here but it doesn't outright win Lusa the game as the counter play still would have existed via Extreme Speed had velvet won the tie. Tera's inclusion here doesn't make this game any less competitive than it could have been without the mechanic.
Game 2: Tera-Ghost Ting-Lu is phenomenal teambuilding from velvet's side to force chip damage on Annihilape. I absolutely loved that interaction. Lusa's use of Tera will probably be more controversial, but I stand by this opinion that Shadow Ball was never the play. If Lusa ended up being the Tera-Water or Tera-Fairy set, Shadow Ball would not have killed and you'd still lose another Pokemon in this exchange. Tera-Normal was a very real possibility as well (ends up being the case). My suggestion? Trick could have avoided all of this, allowing you to keep Corviknight late-game for Dragonite. The reality of the situation is that Annihilape is the main culprit for the uncompetitive aspect of this game, not Tera itself.
bdov vs jay
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724725212-a7rvd199j439cmbysgz5i8cc2z2it38pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724729269-vqg762sqqhbg6obsjskj1pcijmr31tqpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724739495-m9sinajqne96ha17c0mgon9wlvohx47pw
Game 1: Game was done at the point Kingambit swapped to Tera-Flying, but I can see why someone would find that interaction as uncompetitive, despite myself touching on it in the intro and in "Defensive Applications - The Best Offense Is A Good Defense."
Game 2: Fairy Skeledirge is to be expected at this point, and jay was prepared on how to manuever around it.
Game 3: No significant uses of Tera.
So Noisy vs Z Strats
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724864509-apwokgtmavy17p0h5he1qjr9vwke02kpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724867338-c4exe0jbihgo8ev6ttrcly2xrliy18rpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724872048-2kd2jwkawef9vrsnep569ipmkvsz0ggpw
Game 1: Sucker Punch would not have killed even without Tera and Tera-Fairy Espathra is to be expected at this point.
Game 2: Pretty lame game tbh, but once again, I'd rather see tiering action on Annihilape instead of banning the mechanic. Annihilape is one of the most broken Pokemon in the tier right now and Tera simply just enhances these already insane capabilities.
Game 3: Amazing interaction here. So Noisy goes for the mono-Dark typing to get the safe Swords Dance on even the potential Tera-Fighting Gholdengo. However, he reveals to be Normal- here in fact. Really cool dynamic and I love the layers it adds here. Even with So Noisy's great play, Tera alone does not win him the game as Z Strats Dragonite is able to clutch up both the game and the series.
Round 2 [Bracket C]
Competitive
Uncompetitive
No Effect
EVIL z0mOG vs ChrisPBacon
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1723742393-bcaial1zh6jggnkjt75xzel0ryf3f55pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1723747896-7axef3ymgdol3lnap8fzch2eotr1ou8pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1723753725-ewe544oognox9edw7nbfi5w6och88jjpw
Game 1: No significant uses of Tera.
Game 2: Annihilape proves why it is on the radar with its phenomenal balance breaking. Not even a Tera-Dark Dark Pulse from Chi-Yu can swing the favor into ChrisPBacon's way. Once again, I'd like to see tiering action on Annihilape instead of banning Tera.
Game 3: Steel-Tera is a bit overkill vs Blissey and Tera wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game, but one can argue whether or not the damage boost here is considered balanced, which I talked about in "Offensive Applications - Compounding STAB."
3d vs TPP
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1723807633-hvpfpejqndnbg9uwaicsv5jv30g6i4zpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1723813451-5togbz7o2qucnq75r8gs39aytebk0gipw
Game 1: Changing to pure Fire-type allows Chi-Yu to avoid the KO from Focus Blast. This was definitely an unexpected turn of events, but TPP was already in an unloseable position at that point. Overall a great game, albeit 1-sided.
Game 2: Great interaction. With Iron Moth using Tera-Fairy to boost Dazzling Gleam, 3d was forced to Tera-Normal as a response. This is an example of using Tera reactively and I found the sequence to be really cool.
bilb owo vs Mewthree69
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724389059
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724405009
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1724420701
Game 1: Mewthree69 uses his Tera-Ground to combat the standard Earthquake set. bilb owo, however, catches Mewthree69 off guard by revealing a non-standard Dragonite set with Tera-Fire Punch. As you can see, this set has its flaws because he did not get the fish he wanted and its lack of Extreme Speed. Tera was not used nor meant to outright win the game. It was just a great interaction and I loved the extra layers it added to this match.
Game 2: Tera-Electric secures the KO on Corviknight, albeit unnecessary. Tera was a non-factor here, and the fact it was used yet didn't affect the game is a testament by itself.
Game 3: Tera-Flying Roaring Moon won the game but bilb owo had counter play to it in Thunder Wave. He just got hax'd. Competent players have shown how well they can prep for the norm in their teambuilding.
MZ vs Toustar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1725067991
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1725073563
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1725079503
Game 1: Great interaction right here. Tera-Normal is the norm when it comes to Dragonite sets and Toustar shows his skill in the teambuilder by tech'ing Tera-Ghost on Chien-Pao. However, MZ scouts for that possibility by sacking Cyclizar, easily the most useless member on the team. Very complex layers added to the game due to Tera and I found this game to be very competitive, and one of the best examples on the list.
Game 2: No significant uses of Tera.
Game 3: Ghost Tera on Chien-Pao allows it to cheese past Corviknight in theory, but it wasn't revealed whether that attacking move was Body Press or Brave Bird. The final interaction is 100% uncompetitive though as Gholdengo would have forced a potential 50/50 but because of Iron Valiant's Tera-Steel, Toustar was automatically placed into the checkmate position.
_____
There is still skill involved in Tera-based SV games.
I actually think there is more skill when it comes to building this generation.
Tera is just as good when used reactively, vs being used proactively.
Tera adds more layers to the game, and not in an extremely unhealthy way Dynamax did.
Based on this sample size, most of the games are either a) improved or b) not effected by Terastallization's inclusion. The amount of games in the red will decrease as the metagame continues to develop, especially if you ban Pokemon such as Annihilape which is the main culprit of most of the "uncompetitive" games highlighted above. Thus, I support no tiering action. Thank you for reading.
- Even a +0 roaring moon can make a guessing game and just invalidate a counter at the press of a button. If it forces something out you are not playing blind into what tera can it be, no info what so ever, and trying to guess a counter is just unhealthy.
- Yes, all archetypes have natural counters but the only way to deal with defensive tera's is to use stall since it doesnt give a crap about it. You litterally have to guess a 50/50 offensively to see if your counter is actually going to deal with it effectively
I have a question for you all:
Does anyone really need the double STAB part of Tera?
I asked this before, but I think it got drowned out within a larger post of mine. To me, the part of Tera that actually makes it good and promotes creativity is changing to different types. And though that comes with some inherent problems, I suspect this is largely what people like about it. On the other hand, the double STAB bonus is just pure brute force with no creativity. That part of Tera has practically no redeeming qualities, in my opinion, and only creates balance issues when you combine the double STAB damage multiplier with item and ability damage multipliers.
How do you guys feel about this?
Does anyone really need the double STAB part of Tera?
I asked this before, but I think it got drowned out within a larger post of mine. To me, the part of Tera that actually makes it good and promotes creativity is changing to different types. And though that comes with some inherent problems, I suspect this is largely what people like about it. On the other hand, the double STAB bonus is just pure brute force with no creativity. That part of Tera has practically no redeeming qualities, in my opinion, and only creates balance issues when you combine the double STAB damage multiplier with item and ability damage multipliers.
How do you guys feel about this?
As a Gen 9 OU teambuilder, I actually think that the most balanced use of Terastalization is neo-Adaptability STAB. When making mons survive certain KOs and KO back by setting EVs and items, I already account for Choice Band, Choice Specs, and Life Orb when possible, so I already account for neo-Adaptability STAB Choice Scarf and Leftovers sets. For example, I configured my favourite set of Gholdengo EVs to never be OHKOd by non-crit, pre-Tera Choice Band Iron Valiant Knock Off and Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball after Stealth Rock. This is good because no Special Attack EVs Gholdengo guaranteed OHKOs Iron Valiant back with Make It Rain and can use Spell Tag to guaranteed OHKO Dragapult back with Shadow Ball (and still has a chance to OHKO Dragapult back with Leftovers instead of Spell Tag).
Therefore, when it comes to neo-Adaptability STAB Tera, you only need to worry about it when it is combined with boosting items and/or extra resistances/neutralities.
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I also agree that combining the clauses is the only way to "balance" the Mechanic, if they really want to salvage it.
Only being able to select one Terastallized Pokémon in the Teambuilder, and your opponent knowing what it is, seems like a good solution going forward if they really don't want to outright ban it.
Solves the unpredictability outright, with the only 50/50 turns being reduced to ones spawned by one Pokémon per team. Very similar to some Mega Evolutions in that way.
Anything else doesn't solve the problem, which is that even an educated guess at (or outright knowing) each Pokémon's Tera type on team preview doesn't mean you know which one is Terastallizing, which can often lead into your Check/Revenger getting wrecked.
some people here haven't had the pain of losing a game to choice scarf excadrill on ladder and it shows
Tera's pretty predictable if you are good. Personally I would say I have a high prediction rate, maybe >90%, on my opponents' terastalizes - it's just people below a certain skill level who can't read the game state correctly who think it's "random". Even when you're not sure, you can hedge your bets eg: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1727637413-kegcsy6975mr5lftvg6o0ho5i15v5xwpw
In this replay I substitute on turn 12, because I know he's gonna tera this gives me the ability to respond accordingly. Now I know what you're thinking, "this guy is just some 1200 elo scrub where's a replay vs someone good?"
Well look no further than this:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1727687025-qq09doa2poxx7y2lkxndvo4crz6yc7dpw
This guy is 1382, well above the elo average of 1246.3. Mayhaps on turn 9 he terastalizes and I predict it easily (for those who don't understand, most people would have clicked crunch as it is super effective but instead I clicked ice spinner because I knew 100% he would change to tera fighting). Anyone who is familiar with game theory and can read the gamestate sufficiently can do this.
You getting tera'd is predicting, you know that right? Instead of predicting by switching you can predict by tera and snatch the gamestate out of someones hand.
Rank screenshot for legitimacy:
Considering the elo average (1246.3) I feel this is more than qualified to have a worthy opinion on the subject. Also I know many good players like Xtra$hine and Mushmunkey, they will back me up.
For anyone interested in improving I recommend reading "Competition, Collusion, and Game Theory" by Lester G. Telser
In this replay I substitute on turn 12, because I know he's gonna tera this gives me the ability to respond accordingly. Now I know what you're thinking, "this guy is just some 1200 elo scrub where's a replay vs someone good?"
Well look no further than this:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1727687025-qq09doa2poxx7y2lkxndvo4crz6yc7dpw
This guy is 1382, well above the elo average of 1246.3. Mayhaps on turn 9 he terastalizes and I predict it easily (for those who don't understand, most people would have clicked crunch as it is super effective but instead I clicked ice spinner because I knew 100% he would change to tera fighting). Anyone who is familiar with game theory and can read the gamestate sufficiently can do this.
You getting tera'd is predicting, you know that right? Instead of predicting by switching you can predict by tera and snatch the gamestate out of someones hand.
Rank screenshot for legitimacy:
Considering the elo average (1246.3) I feel this is more than qualified to have a worthy opinion on the subject. Also I know many good players like Xtra$hine and Mushmunkey, they will back me up.
For anyone interested in improving I recommend reading "Competition, Collusion, and Game Theory" by Lester G. Telser
honestly I'd also recommend reading "How To Beat Pokèmon X and Y" by Little Timmothy. He goes really in-depth about how to beat Diantha of the Elite 4.
The biggest problem with this argument is two big reasons.
1) You are not privy too your opponents Moveset, item list, ev/iv spread, or abilities. You can make educated guesses based on past experience and if you are experienced with a match up you can often predict what is coming because it is considered a "common set". As of right now, we have no such "common sets" or even proper tiers for pokemon yet. So claiming " I have no info so I can't counter it" shouldn't even be an argument when what is "meta" hasn't even been properly defined. There are many sets running around of common pokemon with a variety of ev spreads and item choices, even without the use of Terastilization.
2) Even if you don't have an idea of what someones tera type is, the fact that they haven't revealed it yet should be equally as telling. If you can identify something as a major potential threat, then you should respect it, regardless of what tera type it is. The fact that you can see what the opponents mons are in the preview already speaks volumes. Because just like your sizing up their team, they are equally trying to figure out which of their pokemon can deal with your priority attackers and potential sweepers. Did you ever stop to consider what happens if they terastilize into a scarfer that they don't know is scarfed? They can just as easily burn their tera without gaining any momentum.
I think if the mechanic existed as you could only tera into your STAB, it would honestly would be unbalanced. Double STAB as a standalone mechanic only serves too boost mons that are already offensive. Z Moves make a good comparison. If you wanted the pure damage value of z moves, you would never slap them on a tank, you would want too on something that is fast or hits hard. While the option to double STAB is strong for already offensive mons, the idea that defensive mons can wall them out with their own new type helps keep them in line. Furthermore, because being able to turn into any type is on the table, mons that have OU niches but are better in lower tiers can actually capitalize on the double STAB for the much needed boost in power, even if it isn't that much.
obviously tera is very polarizing right now and it has been pretty difficult to reckon with it all as tier leader, so i went into my thoughts in longer-form
Even if I don't agree with all your takes on the subject, it's awesome to hear from your perspective considering well, at the end of the day you and your council have a lot of the call.
It's starting to seem at least personally like this may be the largest split opinion on a competitive Pokemon subjective I've seen, how this ends will be interesting to see
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