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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
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I tried Trick Room HO so you don’t have to
So moving aside from ban discussions, I was trying to meet reqs with a Trick Room team because I hate myself, started 11-1, and then the next game I ran into Choice Specs Tera Dark Chi-Yu who just one shotted all my TR setters including flinching through my Colbur Berry Bronzong because of course it does.
Has anyone had success with Trick Room in SV? From my recent experience, we do have a number of good TR abusers, but severely lacking in the setter department at the moment. Here's a breakdown
Trick Room setters:
The structure I like to use for TR HO in NatDex is a suicide lead like Diancie, a bulky mid-game setter like Hatterene/Cress, and an third who is self-sufficient like Reuniclus or Magearna.
For the suicide lead, without Diancie, I find that TR doesn't have any good hazard setter that does not auto lose to Ghost/Dark.
I had to use SDef Colbur Berry Bronzong as a budget Diancie, but did you know Bronzong lost Explosion? Steel Beam still exists but it's way less reliable if your opponent knows what they are doing. Btw run Heatproof, so you don't lose to Chi-Yu Flamethrower. You don't care about taking Earthquakes nearly as much because you want to Steel Beam yourself out of there.
Klefki is an option that doesn't lose to Ghost/Dark, gets Spikes, and has a way to suicide with Steel Beam, but ironically feels a bit too bulky to get down to 50% on turn 3 reliably against some teams. Fairy Lock is a pretty neat tech too, which all but guarentees your sweepersa free turn to do whatever they like.
Scream Tail is pretty nice, but simillarly doesn't have a way to pivot out after TR. And the Eject Button build you can run on normal builds don't work here because you get bounced out before you get TR up. I have tried Perish Song into SR into Trick Room, which actually does give you a free turn to set up, but it feels a bit too slow to pull off at times.
For the bulky midgame setter, we are a lot more fortunate
Hatterene is obviously really solid as always, especially when she can Tera Dark in a pinch, which is something I have adapted after losing to the Chi-yu in the abstract. Definitely the premium option here. Untauntable is a neat bonus, but every other TR user can just runs Mental Herb anyway. The real cherry on the cake is actually Healing Wish, because you get to suicide, boost Kingambit to full, and give him another stack of SO on top of everything.
Slowking is kinda cool with a pivot move, but Chilly Reception's lack of negative priority kinda hurts because it turns into a fast switch under TR. Mental Herb + Regenerator unironically feels better than Oblivious even though the latter blocks Taunt. Future Sight misses timing.
Everything else just feels baaaaaad.
For the self-sufficient setter, we are again severely lacking,
Mimikyu being the only usable one who doesn't feel like I'm going through hoops, but even then it is severely lacking in terms of power. Being a physical attacker especially hurts because it overlaps with many of good TR abusers we have this gen. I've also tried using him as a suicide lead with Curse to kill himself when he's low, but Disguise kinda makes it unreliable. Overall, I don't like him that much this gen.
Not exactly what one think about when one says bulky, or slow, except it kinda works actually, either as this slot, or the previous slot. Reaches 324/251/265 bulk which can actually be respectable, hits pretty hard even uninvested and most importantly gets very powerful utility moves such as Memento and WoW.
As for special attacking TR setters, Room Service Armarouge and Iron Valiant are surprisingly viable here. Their base speed are pretty high, but that actually gives them the flexibility to attack out of TR, with Room Service fixing their high speed inside TR. They have enough firepower to function without an item, and the most important thing they offer is that they are able to take down sturdy physical walls like Dondozo.
Trick Room attackers:
We have a lot of great abusers this gen, but the unfortunate part is that the best ones are all physical attackers. Doesn't matter, because the physical attackers we have right now just break everything if you can get TR up. Kingambit and Iron Hands are the ones I used the most, and the main reason why I even consider TR to be viable at the moment.
The good:
This is the biggest auto-include as an TR abuser imo. Everyone has faced this thing outside of TR, but it's a completely different beast inside of it. SO is especially synergistic with the suicide heavy nature of the playstyle, and you just get to Kowtow Cleave through everything without worrying about Sucker Punch mindgames. The Ghost/Dark resist + Tera Flying/Water also provides extremely valuable resistance to the biggest breakers in the tier. And as usually, if you manage to weaken the opponent enough, or manage to get an SD up, you can win outside of TR with it as well.
If anyone has faced Conkeldurr or Mega Heracross under TR in past gens, Iron Hands is Conkeldurr, but with the option of Swords Dance. Basically nothing is tanking any hits from this if you manage to get an SD off, and you can Tera Flying after TR wears out to continue getting free kills as they wishfully send in their Garchomp, hoping to nail you with EQ. Or you can just start attacking without needing SD thanks to Booster Energy because CC + EQ/Ice Punch + Thunder Punch already hits everything anyway.
Choice Specs Freeze Dry I mean 
Choice Specs Hyper Voice
Tanky Belly Drum abusers with access to priority outside of TR. Cetitan feels more reliable at the moment thanks to Ice Shard being better for killing things after TR ends, but Azumarill is slightly better matched into Chi-Yu and Annihilape. If running a Belly Drummer specifically, refrain from using Slowking because as mentioned above, Chilly Reception is a fast switch under TR.
Slow enough with a Brave nature, and just hits really hard off the bat. As a Fighting type, does stack some weakness with Iron Hands as a TR sweeper. I personally find Iron Hands to be better here generally because I like having Electric type coverage, but does have the advantage of not stacking Ground weakness with Kingambit.
The bad:
Weak STAB moves, no priority, lack coverage. Just a bad Kingambit. I guess we can say that his position is very sus. (He's not Ground weak so he's good rrrrriiiiight???)
Specs Eruption sounds good until you realise it is a hazard meta. Setting up sun for Tusk feels good until you realise TR would have ended before you got to Tusk. Setting up sun is actually a detriment because it gets your entire team killed by Roaring Moon and Chi-Yu once TR ends. Don't use this in TR, this isn't VGC.
dont
The ugly:
These are pretty good ngl, but they have some weird intricacies to make them work.. Try at your own risk.
Magnezone really fell off this gen because all the best Steel types either beat him or can just switch out of him, but Analytic with Tera Steel is surprisingly good in TR. Flash Cannon outright 2HKOs 240/0 Iron Treads for switching in, and pretty much every thing else because apparently we don't have 4x resists at the moment.
Strictly worse than Iron Hands imo, but definitely viable (another Ground weakness stacked btw; why is everyone ground weak?)
I love and hate the fact that Tera Bug Flash Fire BU is a thing. But in TR, I think Tera Fighting/Fairy is better as it puts you in a better position against the usual threats to TR like Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao and Dragapult. Taunt is my favorite move in the game, which he can actually fit in a moveslot.(Oh hey, another natural Ground weakness)
Never tried him, I just put him here because he's very ugly.
Conclusion:
Trick Room is very fun, and I'm gonna try to meet reqs with it, even if the inherent problems of the strategy makes it a very big challenge. But it's fun who cares. Setters are weaker than ever because the top of the meta is dominated by powerful Ghost/Dark attackers who often just OHKO all your setters, but the abusers are also more insane than ever, especially Kingambit and Iron Hands (did I mention they are weak to Ground?). I want my last dance with TR before Tera's inevitable ban/limitations bring the stacking Ghost/Dark/Ground weakness back. Also I hate stupid fish. Give me back Diancie and Uxie.
pokepaste of current version if you hate yourself too (seek help)
Edit: I forgot to mention that the best TR abusers are weak to Ground.
So moving aside from ban discussions, I was trying to meet reqs with a Trick Room team because I hate myself, started 11-1, and then the next game I ran into Choice Specs Tera Dark Chi-Yu who just one shotted all my TR setters including flinching through my Colbur Berry Bronzong because of course it does.
Has anyone had success with Trick Room in SV? From my recent experience, we do have a number of good TR abusers, but severely lacking in the setter department at the moment. Here's a breakdown
Trick Room setters:
The structure I like to use for TR HO in NatDex is a suicide lead like Diancie, a bulky mid-game setter like Hatterene/Cress, and an third who is self-sufficient like Reuniclus or Magearna.
For the suicide lead, without Diancie, I find that TR doesn't have any good hazard setter that does not auto lose to Ghost/Dark.
I had to use SDef Colbur Berry Bronzong as a budget Diancie, but did you know Bronzong lost Explosion? Steel Beam still exists but it's way less reliable if your opponent knows what they are doing. Btw run Heatproof, so you don't lose to Chi-Yu Flamethrower. You don't care about taking Earthquakes nearly as much because you want to Steel Beam yourself out of there.Klefki is an option that doesn't lose to Ghost/Dark, gets Spikes, and has a way to suicide with Steel Beam, but ironically feels a bit too bulky to get down to 50% on turn 3 reliably against some teams. Fairy Lock is a pretty neat tech too, which all but guarentees your sweepersa free turn to do whatever they like.Scream Tail is pretty nice, but simillarly doesn't have a way to pivot out after TR. And the Eject Button build you can run on normal builds don't work here because you get bounced out before you get TR up. I have tried Perish Song into SR into Trick Room, which actually does give you a free turn to set up, but it feels a bit too slow to pull off at times.For the bulky midgame setter, we are a lot more fortunate
Hatterene is obviously really solid as always, especially when she can Tera Dark in a pinch, which is something I have adapted after losing to the Chi-yu in the abstract. Definitely the premium option here. Untauntable is a neat bonus, but every other TR user can just runs Mental Herb anyway. The real cherry on the cake is actually Healing Wish, because you get to suicide, boost Kingambit to full, and give him another stack of SO on top of everything.Slowking is kinda cool with a pivot move, but Chilly Reception's lack of negative priority kinda hurts because it turns into a fast switch under TR. Mental Herb + Regenerator unironically feels better than Oblivious even though the latter blocks Taunt. Future Sight misses timing.Everything else just feels baaaaaad.
For the self-sufficient setter, we are again severely lacking,
Mimikyu being the only usable one who doesn't feel like I'm going through hoops, but even then it is severely lacking in terms of power. Being a physical attacker especially hurts because it overlaps with many of good TR abusers we have this gen. I've also tried using him as a suicide lead with Curse to kill himself when he's low, but Disguise kinda makes it unreliable. Overall, I don't like him that much this gen. Not exactly what one think about when one says bulky, or slow, except it kinda works actually, either as this slot, or the previous slot. Reaches 324/251/265 bulk which can actually be respectable, hits pretty hard even uninvested and most importantly gets very powerful utility moves such as Memento and WoW.As for special attacking TR setters, Room Service Armarouge and Iron Valiant are surprisingly viable here. Their base speed are pretty high, but that actually gives them the flexibility to attack out of TR, with Room Service fixing their high speed inside TR. They have enough firepower to function without an item, and the most important thing they offer is that they are able to take down sturdy physical walls like Dondozo.Trick Room attackers:
We have a lot of great abusers this gen, but the unfortunate part is that the best ones are all physical attackers. Doesn't matter, because the physical attackers we have right now just break everything if you can get TR up. Kingambit and Iron Hands are the ones I used the most, and the main reason why I even consider TR to be viable at the moment.
The good:
This is the biggest auto-include as an TR abuser imo. Everyone has faced this thing outside of TR, but it's a completely different beast inside of it. SO is especially synergistic with the suicide heavy nature of the playstyle, and you just get to Kowtow Cleave through everything without worrying about Sucker Punch mindgames. The Ghost/Dark resist + Tera Flying/Water also provides extremely valuable resistance to the biggest breakers in the tier. And as usually, if you manage to weaken the opponent enough, or manage to get an SD up, you can win outside of TR with it as well. If anyone has faced Conkeldurr or Mega Heracross under TR in past gens, Iron Hands is Conkeldurr, but with the option of Swords Dance. Basically nothing is tanking any hits from this if you manage to get an SD off, and you can Tera Flying after TR wears out to continue getting free kills as they wishfully send in their Garchomp, hoping to nail you with EQ. Or you can just start attacking without needing SD thanks to Booster Energy because CC + EQ/Ice Punch + Thunder Punch already hits everything anyway. Choice Specs Hyper Voice Tanky Belly Drum abusers with access to priority outside of TR. Cetitan feels more reliable at the moment thanks to Ice Shard being better for killing things after TR ends, but Azumarill is slightly better matched into Chi-Yu and Annihilape. If running a Belly Drummer specifically, refrain from using Slowking because as mentioned above, Chilly Reception is a fast switch under TR. Slow enough with a Brave nature, and just hits really hard off the bat. As a Fighting type, does stack some weakness with Iron Hands as a TR sweeper. I personally find Iron Hands to be better here generally because I like having Electric type coverage, but does have the advantage of not stacking Ground weakness with Kingambit.The bad:
Weak STAB moves, no priority, lack coverage. Just a bad Kingambit. I guess we can say that his position is very sus. (He's not Ground weak so he's good rrrrriiiiight???) Specs Eruption sounds good until you realise it is a hazard meta. Setting up sun for Tusk feels good until you realise TR would have ended before you got to Tusk. Setting up sun is actually a detriment because it gets your entire team killed by Roaring Moon and Chi-Yu once TR ends. Don't use this in TR, this isn't VGC. dontThe ugly:
These are pretty good ngl, but they have some weird intricacies to make them work.. Try at your own risk.
Magnezone really fell off this gen because all the best Steel types either beat him or can just switch out of him, but Analytic with Tera Steel is surprisingly good in TR. Flash Cannon outright 2HKOs 240/0 Iron Treads for switching in, and pretty much every thing else because apparently we don't have 4x resists at the moment. Strictly worse than Iron Hands imo, but definitely viable (another Ground weakness stacked btw; why is everyone ground weak?) I love and hate the fact that Tera Bug Flash Fire BU is a thing. But in TR, I think Tera Fighting/Fairy is better as it puts you in a better position against the usual threats to TR like Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao and Dragapult. Taunt is my favorite move in the game, which he can actually fit in a moveslot.(Oh hey, another natural Ground weakness) Never tried him, I just put him here because he's very ugly.Conclusion:
Trick Room is very fun, and I'm gonna try to meet reqs with it, even if the inherent problems of the strategy makes it a very big challenge. But it's fun who cares. Setters are weaker than ever because the top of the meta is dominated by powerful Ghost/Dark attackers who often just OHKO all your setters, but the abusers are also more insane than ever, especially Kingambit and Iron Hands (did I mention they are weak to Ground?). I want my last dance with TR before Tera's inevitable ban/limitations bring the stacking Ghost/Dark/Ground weakness back. Also I hate stupid fish. Give me back Diancie and Uxie.
pokepaste of current version if you hate yourself too (seek help)
Edit: I forgot to mention that the best TR abusers are weak to Ground.
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For sure, I did some calcs for fun on Blissey (Which I think most of the community would argue is a very good Special Defensive Wall)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 550-648 (77 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 466-549 (65.2 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 415-489 (58.1 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Oh and none of these calcs take into any account of Tera Type Fire (Which would've probably dropped Blissey with Overheat in the first calc)
Tyranitar with Assault Vest (252 HP / 252 SpD) I would say is probably a check if it's not running Tera Type Fight (Tera Blast) lol.
Skeledirge is actually pretty good under Trick Room because of Torch Song. It's really nice to have a reliable special Trick Room abuser given that it's generally much easier to find physical ones.So moving aside from ban discussions, I was trying to meet reqs with a Trick Room team because I hate myself, started 11-1, and then the next game I ran into Choice Specs Tera Dark Chi-Yu who just one shotted all my TR setters including flinching through my Colbur Berry Bronzong because of course it does.
Has anyone had success with Trick Room in SV? From my recent experience, we do have a number of good TR abusers, but severely lacking in the setter department at the moment. Here's a breakdown
Trick Room setters:
The structure I like to use for TR HO in NatDex is a suicide lead like Diancie, a bulky mid-game setter like Hatterene/Cress, and an third who is self-sufficient like Reuniclus or Magearna.
For the suicide lead, without Diancie, I find that TR doesn't have any good hazard setter that does not auto lose to Ghost/Dark.
For the bulky midgame setter, we are a lot more fortunate
Everything else just feels baaaaaad.
For the self-sufficient setter, we are again severely lacking,
Trick Room attackers:
We have a lot of great abusers this gen, but the unfortunate part is that the best ones are all physical attackers. Doesn't matter, because the physical attackers we have right now just break everything if you can get TR up. Kingambit and Iron Hands are the ones I used the most, and the main reason why I even consider TR to be viable at the moment.
The good:
Choice Specs Freeze DryI mean
The bad:
The ugly:
These are pretty good ngl, but they have some weird intricacies to make them work.. Try at your own risk.
Conclusion:
Trick Room is very fun, and I'm gonna try to meet reqs with it, even if the inherent problems of the strategy makes it a very big challenge. But it's fun who cares. Setters are weaker than ever because the top of the meta is dominated by powerful Ghost/Dark attackers who often just OHKO all your setters, but the abusers are also more insane than ever, especially Kingambit and Iron Hands (did I mention they are weak to Ground?). I want my last dance with TR before Tera's inevitable ban/limitations bring the stacking Ghost/Dark/Ground weakness back. Also I hate stupid fish. Give me back Diancie and Uxie.
pokepaste of current version if you hate yourself too (seek help)
Edit: I forgot to mention that the best TR abusers are weak to Ground.
If you want a TR abuser that could help your ground weakness, Arboliva could maybe do it. It also has a Ghost immunity. Though I've personally been disappointed by most of my attempts to make Arboliva work in OU.
Toedscruel isn't normally thought of as a Trick Room setter. However, it does have unique typing that isn't weak to Ghost and/or Ground. This is rare for a setter and could possibly make it slot better onto certain teams. Spore could also potentially be used to buy time. I have not tried it as a setter, however, so this is purely theoretical. I only know based on testing it as a hazard clear option that it can work in OU if the niche is right.
I have experimented with Espeon as a suicide Trick Room lead and it didn't go the best. I ran Red Card. The idea was to rely on Magic Bounce to ensure the opponent couldn't set up while you set up the Trick Room and then take a hit. But there are a lot of faster pokemon and/or Scarfers with U-Turn that make this strategy incredibly inconsistent. Espeon is also outclassed by Hatterene in nearly every way except speed.
I also had the thought of having both Espeon and Hatterene on the same Trick Room team to counter hazard stack, but the shared Ghost weaknesses could prove problematic. One could try a normal type setter for the Ghost immunity, but the only ones available are Indeedee, Farigiraf, Girafarig, Oranguru, and Stantler. I would probably try Indeedee-F or Oranguru if anything. But I'm not sure running 3 psychic setters is viable.
Stantler is the only non-Psychic type Normal setter, but I don't know if that's enough to make up for actually having to a run Stantler. Would Stantler get Eviolite now because of Legends or is S/V not clever enough to account for the Wyrdeer evolution before Home?
BlackKnight_Gawain
PUPL Champion
Lowkey, I'd give Gengar a C- just for being able to bait ghost spam into Destiny Bond esp after they tera, but that's just me. Absolutely fucking hilarious sweeping statement tho, because it absolutely slaps rn in UU and draft so it's technically correct in the latter case.
Unaware mons in general go super crazy on the low ladder, especially the ones that can sweep like curse Dondozo or torch song Skeledirge.
EDIT: Whoops accidental one liner. Anyone got any anti-meta picks they love to use? I'm having a fun time with Tera Bug Ceruledge, absolute fiend of a mon.
Skeledirge is pretty good actually, and could definitely work once we get more reliable setters. My biggest problem with it is that it lacks a bit of immediate power and by the time it gets enough boosts to be a threat, TR would have ended, at which point it poses no threat, while stacking weaknesses with most TR cores, which makes it hard to switch out from. Ceruledge who shares the same typing and I’ve praised also boosts its bulk, while having a rather favorable matchup into the TR destroyer trio of Chiyu, Chienpao and Dragapult thanks to Flash Fire, Bitter Blade and Shadow Sneak, and has a better time going Tera Bug/Grass than Dirge.
Arboliva is too slow to get started. If you boom out of Bronzong, or Healing Wish out of Hatterene, you are getting a free switch to whatever. On turn 3, Arboliva is going to move first, hit for pitiful damage without Grassy Terrain, get hit, and Grassy Terrain is only in effective for 2 turns in TR. By the time you set up TR again, Grassy Terrain would have ended so you can’t use it to pivot to your next abuser either.
Toedscruel is terrible for setting up TR because it is neither self-sufficient, not able to pivot out to another abuser safely. It is still heavily threatened by Chien-Pao and Chi-yu, like any other TR setter.
Btw the whole Ground weakness thing is meant as a joke. In practice you are getting a free switch into your abusers, and one of Kingambit, Iron Hands whatever your third dedicated abuser is going to Tera into Flying or another type that resists it. The biggest weakness that is inevitably stacked is mainly Ghost/Dark because those are what actually prevents you from reaching your win con.
Honestly, that’s how I arrived at Room Service Iron Valiant, which sounds so dumb, but also deals with all the inherent weakness of the strategy. Regardless, I’m really looking forward to Home, because Ursuluna, Wyrdeer, and Hisuian Braviary are all looking to be absolute monsters.
Decided to try TR for a couple games because of this conversation and it is fun, but I still have the same issue as usual with it. Just too few turns and weak setters. You first have to set it up, then a turn to die/switch to your threat and if you want to set up an SD too you basically have 2 free turns under TR and that's it. Getting it back up during end-game is tough too. It's decently viable, but I feel like it largely hinges on how strong Kingambit is late-game. If that mon didn't exist it would be so much harder.
I ended up using Rabsca and Toedscruel as setters because Revival Blessing allows me to sac more aggressively and Spore could give me some free turns. I wasn't able to fit in hazards, because while running Spikes on Toedscruel I never found turns to get them up. Maybe I should give Bronzong another chance. Armarouge seems like a decent option too for a special setter. Skeledirge was too slow to get going in my experience.
(Edit: Actually, maybe WP Ting-Lu or something could work in TR as well.)
https://pokepast.es/057510016c50dfe5
I ended up using Rabsca and Toedscruel as setters because Revival Blessing allows me to sac more aggressively and Spore could give me some free turns. I wasn't able to fit in hazards, because while running Spikes on Toedscruel I never found turns to get them up. Maybe I should give Bronzong another chance. Armarouge seems like a decent option too for a special setter. Skeledirge was too slow to get going in my experience.
(Edit: Actually, maybe WP Ting-Lu or something could work in TR as well.)
https://pokepast.es/057510016c50dfe5
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I was thinking how Oricorio-Baile is actually one of the best counters of Volcarona:
-Resists Fire and Giga Drain, Volcarona can only hit it with Psychic
-Auto-sets Quiver Dance if Volcarona uses it, has its own Quiver Dance too so it can get +2 Sp.Atk/Sp.Def/Speed in 1 turn
-Auto-uses Fiery Dance if Volcarona uses it, hitting it back with neutral damage
-Can recover damage with Roost
-Resists Fire and Giga Drain, Volcarona can only hit it with Psychic
-Auto-sets Quiver Dance if Volcarona uses it, has its own Quiver Dance too so it can get +2 Sp.Atk/Sp.Def/Speed in 1 turn
-Auto-uses Fiery Dance if Volcarona uses it, hitting it back with neutral damage
-Can recover damage with Roost
Kingambit and Iron Hands are really hard carrying the entire archetype because they are so good at securing kills for the 2-3 turns they are out, and can often survive 1-2 addition turns after that.
Rabsca I tried for a bit, but the move order really felt awkward to me. If you don’t run Memento, a smart player will not let you sack off Rabsca. But even with Memento, TR RB Memento burns 3 turns, whereas RB first means you can’t even TR most of the time. But sometimes getting RB into Kingambit might be game winning, so I can definitely see the appeal.
I’m very interested by the choice of Booster Energy instead of Room Service on your Iron Valiant. I personally like Room Service a lot because it lets you under speed Corviknight but the added power boost definitely looks very appealing. During your testing, have you had any trouble with under speeding specific threats? Also curious how has TR Valiant been performing for you in general because using a 116 speed mon as a TR sweeper was definitely the craziest thing I said all week)
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Valiant was a bit of a mixed bag. I found that without a boosting item it just didn't hit hard enough, and the only relevant thing you're underspeeding with Room Service is Corviknight as you said. I found that if they have Corv I would just not set up TR and just snipe it with Tbolt outside of it. I'm strongly considering replacing it, or maybe even going full speed + BE to clean up without TR.
Also on the topic of Rabsca, it can hit surprisingly hard if they try to ignore it. Most offensive mons would be 2HKO'd, while on the fatmons or steels you can often just hard switch.
I wish to Nominate Gengar to the B- rank.
1LDK is correct in what she said.
Gengar does face competition from other Ghost Pokémon.
Gengar is both Ghost & Poison.
Gengar has these types naturally which doesn’t require a player to use their Terra.
Grimsnarl + Cyclizar + Epsthra with 3 other sweepers is a popular set up.
A lot of players using the above set up have been running Grimmsnarl has their main lead Pokémon.
The reason Grimmsnarl has proven to be a very good lead is because it has access to Both Screens & It has the move Taunt.
- Grimmsnarl has the option on what Screen it wishes to put up to minimize damage.
- Grimmsnarl has the option to Taunt to prevent enemy from setting up Hazards.
Grimmsnarl ability to do all the above things as elevated his usage in Gen 9.
Grimmsnarl ability to do all the above things as rewarded Grimmsnarl with an SV OU Viability Rank of “A”
With Grimmsnarl on the rise and very popular among players, A question naturally arose among players.
”What counters Grimmsnarl”?
Gengar counters Grimmsnarl!
I can’t even take the credit for using Gengar to beat Grimmsnarl because that honor goes to Ash Ketchum in the below Video.
Ash beat Grimmsnarl with Gengar and we can as well.
Gengar could be used as Anti-Lead to counter Grimmsnarl Leads.
The following Damage Calculations show how easy it would be for Gengar to beat Grimmsnarl.
252+ SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Grimmsnarl: 410-486 (104 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Most Grimmsnarl are not even max HP invested so it would be easy OHKO.
An even if the Grimmsnarl retreats or Enemy uses another Lead in preparation for Gengar.
The Fact still remains that Gengar is still great Special Attacker and his presence on the Roster caused the enemy to play in awkward way which could make them very uncomfortable.
Gengar strong stats, great move pool, & unique typings allow Gengar the ability to be an excellent Pokémon.
1LDK is correct in what she said.
Gengar does face competition from other Ghost Pokémon.
However, What separates Gengar from other Ghost Pokémon is his duo Typing.
Gengar is both Ghost & Poison.
Gengar has these types naturally which doesn’t require a player to use their Terra.
Grimsnarl + Cyclizar + Epsthra with 3 other sweepers is a popular set up.
A lot of players using the above set up have been running Grimmsnarl has their main lead Pokémon.
The reason Grimmsnarl has proven to be a very good lead is because it has access to Both Screens & It has the move Taunt.
- Grimmsnarl has the option on what Screen it wishes to put up to minimize damage.
- Grimmsnarl has the option to Taunt to prevent enemy from setting up Hazards.
Grimmsnarl ability to do all the above things as elevated his usage in Gen 9.
Grimmsnarl ability to do all the above things as rewarded Grimmsnarl with an SV OU Viability Rank of “A”
With Grimmsnarl on the rise and very popular among players, A question naturally arose among players.
”What counters Grimmsnarl”?
Gengar counters Grimmsnarl!
I can’t even take the credit for using Gengar to beat Grimmsnarl because that honor goes to Ash Ketchum in the below Video.
Ash beat Grimmsnarl with Gengar and we can as well.
Gengar could be used as Anti-Lead to counter Grimmsnarl Leads.
The following Damage Calculations show how easy it would be for Gengar to beat Grimmsnarl.
252+ SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Grimmsnarl: 410-486 (104 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Most Grimmsnarl are not even max HP invested so it would be easy OHKO.
An even if the Grimmsnarl retreats or Enemy uses another Lead in preparation for Gengar.
The Fact still remains that Gengar is still great Special Attacker and his presence on the Roster caused the enemy to play in awkward way which could make them very uncomfortable.
Gengar strong stats, great move pool, & unique typings allow Gengar the ability to be an excellent Pokémon.
have you tried Expert Belt? sure the boost is lower, but most Iron Valiants I´ve met get at most 1 or 2 attacks before dying
also, since your doing quark drive mons how about you try to add Pincurchin or dare I say, manual electric terrain? since pincurchin is slow as fuck, in TR is the fastest Spikes setter in the game, this is all theorymonning sure but could work
I really liked Valiant so far because it was able to heavily threaten Choice-locked Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao and set up TR if I can't afford to Tera Hatterene.
I did not actually have as much trouble with power because I have been using Pixie Plate Valiant for the entire generation, so I'm more comfortable with the damage rolls I'm getting. I went with Room Service to underspeed Corviknight, but the more important underspeed was 140 Spe Kingambit who kills with Iron Head or threatens a SD.
However, I am actually considering raising the speed a bit to speedcreep Chi-Yu outside of TR, while keeping Room Service to go lower during TR, but I am probably gonna try those things out on a fresh account because I really can't afford to lose my win streak on my suspect alt at this point.
As for Rabsca, maybe I just tried to push for Memento too much. Gonna test out having a second coverage move and see how it does.
Thanks!
First of all, im not a girl, theres no girls on the internet (unless proven otherwise)
Second, wrong thread
third, grimm does run HP investment because prankster does most of the work, and since grimm has prankster, he just sets up Light Screen and
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Grimmsnarl through Light Screen: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and this does not stop screens, also gengar cannot stop Cyclizar withou Focus Miss, and loses hardcore against Espathra
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
Did you seriously use an anime battle to back your case up in a competitive environment?
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
I’m actually gonna toss Player J a bone here and go to bat for Gengar because I’ve been using a silly strat on several different Pokémon that absolutely preys on unwary Grimm leads and that I think could also work for Gengar: Clear Amulet. It prevents Grimmsnarl from being able to execute Parting Shot, so it has to hard switch or be 2HKO’d by Sludge Wave. Considering that most Grimms aren’t hard switching out of Gengar on turn 1 and are either running only Spirit Break or no attacks at all, you can even combine it with disruptive tools like Mean Look, Reflect Type, Taunt, Hypnosis, Skill Swap, or Encore/Disable, or even run Brick Break to ahahahaha just kidding why is Gengar even on the VR this mon sucks in the current meta
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I mean you’re joking but I actually want to try that out lmao, I’m certain I could get at least 1 player to rage quit on the ladder.
Clear amulet seems like a really cool item, too bad it looks like it’s not that great in singles.
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
Oh yeah, it’s great if you want to stop people from getting easy reqs for the suspect test by just copy-pasting a sample team, but it’s not exactly gonna get you reqs of your own. It’s one of those temp6t-style “trolling decent players on low ladder” sets.
…eh, screw it, here’s a dumb set if you really feel like pissing in someone’s cereal.
Gengar @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Cursed Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mean Look
- Skill Swap
- Taunt
- Sludge Bomb
Comes in on Grimm and Mean Looks while it sets up a screen, then Taunts as it attempts to Parting Shot. If it’s got Light Screen, you can hit it with a Sludge Bomb before stealing Prankster; if not, steal Prankster right away and then go for the Sludge Bombs (Taunt will run out but it won’t matter). If Cyclizar comes in after you’ve got Prankster, Taunt it so it can’t Shed Tail. If Espathra comes in and it’s not behind a sub, Taunt to prevent it from boosting/subbing and Tera Steel to resist both its moves.
(Note: Do not actually run this.)
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What's everyone's opinion on Meowscarada?
I feel like I see the Choice Banded set way too often and it's usually running:
- Flower Trick
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
Has anyone been running Trick on their choice set or does someone use something other than choice items?
I feel like I see the Choice Banded set way too often and it's usually running:
- Flower Trick
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
Has anyone been running Trick on their choice set or does someone use something other than choice items?
I saw a few wth Play Rough, something that really fucks my Garchomp, who would otherwise be able to tank a Flower Trick reasonably, i have never seen Sucker Punch, maybe because they die too soon, who knows
I see Band, Scarf and Boots. Play Rough, Low Kick and Spikes are other options I've seen.
Thoughts on scarf Gholdengo with dazzling gleam and fairy type tera? There are so many dark Pokemon running around and focus blast's 70% accuracy feels bad. Also changes Gholdy's dark type weakness to a resistance. Think it might help against Kingsgambit and Great Tusk.
Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
The problem with most Tera types for Gholdengo is you no longer block Rapid Spin and you use up your Tera. I've heard of people use Tera Steel for the Make It Rain nuke or Tera Ghost for a nuke that still blocks spin. But the default typing is good enough where you generally don't want to mess with it too much, especially for defensive Tera on a set with no recovery.
I did sometimes do that with Tera Normal when Houndstone was a thing. Except that was to counter the Last Respects win con. I'm not sure if Trading Tera for a single KO is worth it most of the time.
As for Kingambit and Great Tusk, I wouldn't bother with Fairy Tera for just that. Great Tusk doesn't have the best special defense, so Ghost STAB should be fine. Fairy is only neutral on Kingambit because of its Steel typing.
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