Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think it's extremely hard to justify using Gallade while Iron Valiant exists.
Being so heavily outclassed in speed as well as Valiant being able to reliably run a mixed offensive set offsets the slight power decrease it has compared to sharpness Gallade, especially against most bulky mons that mainly spec into one defensive stat (like Dondozo or Clodsire) makes me feel like there isn't a huge reason to slot it currently.


Mixed Valiant:
:iron_valiant:
Iron Valiant @ Life Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Psyshock / Thunderbolt
- Agility / Thunderbolt



Gallade's setup sets are also heavily outclassed by booster energy valiant with SD,

Setup Valiant (Speed Boost Booster)
:iron_valiant:
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy / Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast / Spirit Break
- Knock Off / Psycho Cut



Overall I'm just not convinced of it being above D rank while Iron Valiant exists
252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dondozo: 200-238 (39.6 - 47.2%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dondozo: 247-292 (49 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dondozo: 141-166 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- 91.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dondozo: 175-207 (34.7 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Mainly for calcs like these as well as gallade having psychic stab for amoongus and clodsire. Also gallade has less 4MSS (due to psychic stab) as well as easier time fitting in coverage for mons like dengo and corv. Sure valiant can be more versatile but that doesn't mean (in my opinion) that gallade should be D rank
 

viivian

OU's sweetheart
is a Tiering Contributor
Nah, this mon is still ok due to its ability to pivot into some of the strongest Special Attacks in the tier like Chi-Yu's Specs Overheat and either recover off the damage or punish switch-ins with a crippling Thunder Wave. I've been running Shadow Ball on it as well, making its MU w/ Gholdengo not too too bad since it can chunk it for a decent amount of damage + fish for SpDef drops and the move is quite helpful vs Skeledirge too since Thunder Wave paras + Shadow Ball SpDef drops mean Blissey does quite solidly in the 1v1 MU most of the time unless Dirge Teras. The Ape MU is problematic for it, however.
blissey gets 2HKO'd by tera fire chi-yu's specs fire blast, its shadow ball cannot even guarantee a 3HKO against gholdengo and gets nailed by tera fighting focus blast in return and HATES the myriad of powerful physical attackers such as great tusk, chien-pao, roaring moon, the aforementioned annihilape and so on and so forth. i think dropping it is very fair due to it having poor MUs against most of the metagame
 
blissey gets 2HKO'd by tera fire chi-yu's specs fire blast, its shadow ball cannot even guarantee a 3HKO against gholdengo and gets nailed by tera fighting focus blast in return and HATES the myriad of powerful physical attackers such as great tusk, chien-pao, roaring moon, the aforementioned annihilape and so on and so forth. i think dropping it is very fair due to it having poor MUs against most of the metagame
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 162-192 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 468-552 (71.7 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Fair but granted its focus miss)
Calcs using the gen 8 ubers special wall set
 
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 162-192 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 468-552 (71.7 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Fair but granted its focus miss)
Calcs using the gen 8 ubers special wall set
The correct calc including Beads of Ruin is:

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 288-340 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

and most blisseys are max physdef anyways
 
Time for my monthly post for ou! Here are some noms that mfs agree with.

S rank

:gholdengo: S-> S-/A+: alr yeah it blocks a lot of hazards, spin control, is a nice scarfer/nasty plot breaker… but yeah its gotten a LOT easier to play around, shud be bumped down imo.

:dragapult: S- -> A+: theres hella darks running around, so much priority and a lotta cplay to specs and the more common variant, dd. If played right its very dangerous, but overall i do not think it deserves the same level as chi yu.

Nvm imma finish this after the tera suspect
 
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 162-192 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 468-552 (71.7 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Fair but granted its focus miss)
Calcs using the gen 8 ubers special wall set
max hp, max sp. def blissey, that is the set ran by the SS Ou sample team... and if ur balance that is just a MU that is gonna suck to face against.. and offense can just check it short time and make it take hazard damage and out offense it...
 

Pluim

formerly goodra4thewin
Just wondering, why is Umbreon D? What miniscule niche does it have to not be UR? It lost toxic and heal bell this generation and faces competition with Ting-Lu which can do what it dose but better.
 

Taka

coastin' like crazy
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
PUPL Champion
To follow up with an earlier post, I've been playing a lot more ladder again after I finished getting suspect reqs, and I've been using this Sandy Shocks sample team, along with some other Sandy Shocks builds: https://pokepast.es/c53823afa90e6122

1671994255871.png
D to C+:


Sandy Shocks in the current metagame is a lot better than I initially thought, to say the least. It isn't necessarily meta defining or easy to slot onto most teams, but it has quite a few niches that work well in this metagame:

1. Very good against common balance cores. This mon is not only a ground that not only threatens Dondozo and Corviknight out, but also can pivot into other strong offensive threats, and set hazards.

2. Matchups well into Gholdengo/Glimmora teams. Although it isn't incredibly bulky or fast, the ability to force out Gholdengo and lay hazards down is still an incredible niche, and it can always pivot.

3. Incredible matchup into Sun teams. Nearly everything on sun is threatened to be OHKOed or 2HKOed by Specs Sandy Shocks. Granted, it can't switch in, but being able to outspeed the majority of the playstyle outside of Roaring Moon while making it hard for them to bring in threats like Chi-Yu or Tusk makes it incredible.

Some calcs in Sun:

252 SpA Choice Specs Sandy Shocks Earth Power in Sun vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chi-Yu: 356-422 (141.8 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Sandy Shocks Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 453-534 (122.1 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Sandy Shocks Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roaring Moon: 208-246 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO






Granted, it has issues such as being somewhat prediction reliant when playing teams with a ground + Corv, but that issue also exists for the opposing player. Furthermore, it is difficult to bring in occasionally, but when you can pivot it in, it forces progress against many common playstyles.
 
Just wondering, why is Umbreon D? What miniscule niche does it have to not be UR? It lost toxic and heal bell this generation and faces competition with Ting-Lu which can do what it dose but better.
Lost Toxic but gained a new Move, Thunder Wave. Pdef Umbreon is probably the best Foul Play user and one of the only viable Wishers (Blissey lost Wish). Checks things like DD Dragonite or Pult very well.
 
I think it's extremely hard to justify using Gallade while Iron Valiant exists.
Being so heavily outclassed in speed as well as Valiant being able to reliably run a mixed offensive set offsets the slight power decrease it has compared to sharpness Gallade, especially against most bulky mons that mainly spec into one defensive stat (like Dondozo or Clodsire) makes me feel like there isn't a huge reason to slot it currently.


Mixed Valiant:
:iron_valiant:
Iron Valiant @ Life Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Psyshock / Thunderbolt
- Agility / Thunderbolt



Gallade's setup sets are also heavily outclassed by booster energy valiant with SD,

Setup Valiant (Speed Boost Booster)
:iron_valiant:
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy / Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast / Spirit Break
- Knock Off / Psycho Cut



Overall I'm just not convinced of it being above D rank while Iron Valiant exists
Like someone else said above, gallade can break dondozo without being forced out by yawn, and it doesn't suffer from 4mms as much.

Something I'd like to add is that another advantage that gallade has is that it can switch in and set up multiple times, since iron valiant loses its booster energy after its first attempt. Yes, you can set up with valiant without the booster energy, but an unboosted valiant doesn't have the same "win the game" potential as a +2 gallade.
 
Why the hell is meowscarada so low and quaquaval so high... Like what??? Can someone explain because meowscarada is better than quaquaval 100% .__. Like drop quaquaval to B and raise meowscarada and pawmot to A- or smth

Can someone explain please?
Quaquaval finds a lot of great setup opportunities with Aqua Step and can easily snowball out of control with Moxie. It is held back a bit (similar to Espathra) in that it is not threatening without boosts. It is not even remotely the same type of threat as the others you listed so the comparison is not helpful. Anyway, if you want to post nominations, you generally should include actual reasons and not just state opinions with nothing to back then up.
 
Quaquaval finds a lot of great setup opportunities with Aqua Step and can easily snowball out of control with Moxie. It is held back a bit (similar to Espathra) in that it is not threatening without boosts. It is not even remotely the same type of threat as the others you listed so the comparison is not helpful. Anyway, if you want to post nominations, you generally should include actual reasons and not just state opinions with nothing to back then up.
For what I have seen, it suffers a lot for the 4 moves syndrome. bulk up sets get easily revenged by priority or +speed booster energy users against offense and against bulky teams stuff like toxic, Donbozo, iron defense users, whirlwind/dragon tail or even some of the few encore users in the tier can stop it easily since it isn't that strong.
In my opinion it tries to take Palafin's role but it is much worse on it and other set up Pokemon are just better.
 
Why the hell is meowscarada so low and quaquaval so high... Like what??? Can someone explain because meowscarada is better than quaquaval 100% .__. Like drop quaquaval to B and raise meowscarada and pawmot to A- or smth

Can someone explain please?
Quaquavel has a nice typing that is very practical in general, with resistances to Chien-Pao stabs which it can then use to threaten damage. Aqua Step granting it a speed boost actually makes it not as easy to play around with offensive resists. For example Specs Dragapult cannot take Aqua Step into Ice Spinner if spikes are up. It also has (imo) underexplored options like bulky pivot sets with roost to better check stuff like Chien-Pao. Meowscarada I would argue has issues with being prediction reliant which can cause it to give up some momentum if it clicks the wrong move on banded sets, while other sets are not especially strong due (as in power) due to how Protean works this gen. It is a decent revenge killer though, but I really think B is a suitable place for it atm.
 
:meowscarada: B -> B+
This thing has the power of greninja and fucking weirdos on its side and it shows, flower trick is a move that lets it immediately put grimmsnarl team on the backfoot, and knock off is a wonderfully powerful utility move for a choice band mon to have. Couple this with stab u-turn, and choice band meowscarada is able to chunk mons every time it hits the field before even selecting a 4th move, and it has options, being able to run strong priority with sucker punch, set hazards with spikes or tspikes, or even chunk corviknight with tpunch, all the while changing its defensive typing which may be useful in some fringe scenarios, like changing to electric vs a bb corv. Along with this great tusk’s almost landorus-esque utility is great for it as it means that there’s popular bulky ground type to threaten out and knock off.
However the most important thing for this mon is easily its speed, being able to outspeed an unboosted valiant is amazing, not mentioning the myriad of threats slower than that like iron moth and annihilape, which it can crit through its bulk ups.

:slowking: B+ -> C/D
I don’t need to explain this fuck you

:floatzel: C -> B-
It’s the current rain sweeper of choice, and though pelipper has multiple sets it can run what with specs existing, it deserves to be in the same tier as the birb.
 
Last edited:
Bold choice to go with the fuck you rather than an explanation when explanations are needed for nominations
To put it bluntly, the metagame is largely physical, and what special threats do exist aren’t covered by slowking what with them being dark and ghost types, it got chilly reception but that really can’t keep it afloat against gholdengo, chi-yu, and the physical attackers that can and will bully it.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
To put it bluntly, the metagame is largely physical, and what special threats do exist aren’t covered by slowking what with them being dark and ghost types, it got chilly reception but that really can’t keep it afloat against gholdengo, chi-yu, and the physical attackers that can and will bully it.
I have nothing against your nomination and agree to some extent; next time just include these few sentences in the initial. Imagine the thread if everyone just says “I want X” with no explanation — it would be kinda barebones. Thanks for expanding!
 

memesketch

won't look back, i must shine
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Spent enough playing this meta that I wanted to add some personal thoughts and some noms of my own

Rises

:chi-yu: -> S
If it wasn't unwallable with Specs alone, Tera Fire and sun tip it way over the edge. Throw Nasty Plot, Wisp, and Tera Grass into the mix and it can just wear down or shred through the chosen few that can stomach its STABs. Way too much guesswork goes into trying to deal with it, and its checks generally have no reliable recovery or are very passive or niche. To top it off it's great against offense with a Speed tier way too good for a breaker of its caliber, huge resistances to Sucker Punch and Gholdengo's STABs, and the option of Scarf. Versatile, reliable, unpredictable, meta warping and defining. Best mon in the tier, and there's hopefully a ban coming its way soon to show for it.

:annihilape: -> S-
Everyone who's gone against this thing knows the deal. So, so hard to deal with. The fact that you generally have to go about dealing with Rest Ape and Taunt Ape in different ways makes it very tough to rein in if it gets going and you guess wrong (or even if you guess right most of the time). Same deal with the different Tera types it can choose from. Warps the meta by invalidating slow teams and pivoting playstyles that feed Rage Fist and forces them to either scramble for niche answers or just lose to it.

:chien-pao: -> S-
Much more individually potent than the rest of A+ (barring Ape). You could argue Valiant, but that's easier to check as a whole because mons that resist its STABs are in decent supply and it's easier to revenge kill than the dog, barring relatively weak Booster Energy sets. What really makes Chien-Pao stand out for me is that it poses such an immediate threat in a metagame where many of the top HO mons rely on extensive setup. Being one of, if not the best revenge killer and general anti-offense mon in the tier helps its case just as much. Add in that it can break its own checks down with insanely strong Tera STABs and it's hard to argue that Chien-Pao isn't a top 5-6 mon in the current meta.

:garganacl: -> A+
Probably the hardest mon in the tier to consistently take down, and the best defensive Tera mon in the tier. Tera Fairy alone blanks every Dragon in the tier, most Chien-Pao, and Annihilape, which just about nothing else out there can do, and Tera Water and Poison have similarly impressive résumés. Recover and the status immunity are insanely valuable, and Salt Cure hugely complements its longevity by making it seriously difficult to switch into and forcing progress against every playstyle. In addition, it can be a wincon with ID+Body Press or Block, or it can experiment with coverage like EQ and Heavy Slam, and all these traits together allow it to pivot into and 1v1 almost anything it wants. Oh, and they went overboard making this thing immune to Tspikes. I know I'm saying a lot that's been said already, but this absolute behemoth carried my reqs run and I've been called dishonest more than once for using it as much as I do. Crazy accusations, I know. Bottom line, Garganacl is truly phenomenal and deserves to rise to A+.

:breloom: -> A-
Underrated and underutilized force in this tier. Gholdengo or not, Spore is still unbelievably valuable. Mach Punch gives it serious utility against the various Dark-types in the meta, and Sash sets can get off a free Spore or a valuable hit against an Iron Valiant or Espathra that thinks it's about to run away with the game. Tera Fire, in my opinion the best set, frees Breloom up tremendously by dispatching the Spore absorbers, and its other new toys in CC, Gunk, and Bulldoze leave no bulletproof checks and open up options such as Band to wreak havoc on bulky teams. It helps that Breloom has a naturally solid matchup against much of the defensive meta, most importantly Ting-Lu. Not the easiest threat to build around, but so rewarding when utilized correctly that I believe it warrants a rise to A-.

:ceruledge: -> B (at least B-)
Kudos to Ceruledge, not many mons like it survive the "new toy syndrome" phase. It found a new lease on life with those defensive Tera Flash Fire sets, it provides a lot more utility than expected and can send a lot of offensive builds packing if it gets a good chance to set up. Beating Great Tusk with Bulk Up is a huge draw, as is outspeeding Gholdengo. A decently strong Shadow Sneak is always good to have as well. Still struggles to make headway against defensive teams, but it's taken on a niche as a credible offensive threat worthy of a rise to the B ranks.

:floatzel: -> C+ or B-
Dracovish on a budget. Rain's resident sweeper for the moment. The sheer power of Tera Water Wave Crash gives it a sufficient edge over Barraskewda, since the ability to just click one move and drop resists is absolutely invaluable for a rain team.

:sandy-shocks: -> C or C+
Has an interesting niche with a very difficult to block Volt Switch. STAB Earth Power and Tera Ice are huge assets that pick apart common Ground-types, and because of Sandy Shocks's good SpAtk it hits most targets fairly hard. A great Speed tier is what really sets it apart from Rotom-W, outspeeding threats like Chi-Yu, Gholdengo, and Baxcalibur that Rotom-W usually falls short of. Also has the option of Stealth Rock.

Drops

:kingambit: -> A
Great mon, lots of lategame potential with Supreme Overlord. Its ability can limit it, though, because preserving Kingambit's bulk to force it into a do-or-die situation late in the game takes away from the tank role it may need to fulfill earlier on. In addition, by the time Kingambit can get a significant boost from Supreme Overlord, a teammate may have already Terastallized, so it may not be able to use the defensive Tera that would allow it to set up against and beat a check such as Great Tusk. The meta's unkindness to Sucker Punch users is most problematic, with various fast Dark- and Fighting-types being among the best Pokemon in the tier and techs such as Tera Fighting Gholdengo and Tera Fairy or Will-O-Wisp Dragapult being possibilities as well. Kingambit just doesn't quite have the consistency or the overall potency to be worthy of A+.

:iron-treads: -> A-
Rapid Spin users are so important in this meta, and I can see where Iron Treads fits in as a fast, Gholdengo-smacking alternative to Great Tusk. Knock Off and Volt Switch are both amazing to have. The main problem with Iron Treads is that it doesn't really defensively answer many offensive staples other than Espathra in practice - the Dark neutrality and Ground and Fighting weaknesses pose huge problems for it, and together with its lesser offensive presence, it's just usually outclassed by Great Tusk.

:barraskewda: -> C
Hand in hand with the Floatzel rise. Despite better coverage and Speed, it just can't match Floatzel in terms of damage output, so it finds itself just barely outclassed right now.

:tyranitar: -> C+
Really only checks one or two good Pokemon that have ample ways around it. Not the offensive behemoth it used to be with Choice Band either, stuck in a meta with more dominant Rock-resistant Pokemon than ever before, especially Great Tusk. Gonna be a tough generation for the king.

Also agree with these noms:

:hatterene: -> A
:volcarona: -> A
:iron-hands: -> A-
:azumarill: -> B+
:toxapex: -> B+

-------------------
:dragapult: -> A+
:iron-moth: -> B+
:blissey: -> B-
:lokix: -> D
 
:chien-pao: -> S-
Much more individually potent than the rest of A+ (barring Ape). You could argue Valiant, but that's easier to check as a whole because mons that resist its STABs are in decent supply and it's easier to revenge kill than the dog, barring relatively weak Booster Energy sets. What really makes Chien-Pao stand out for me is that it poses such an immediate threat in a metagame where many of the top HO mons rely on extensive setup. Being one of, if not the best revenge killer and general anti-offense mon in the tier helps its case just as much. Add in that it can break its own checks down with insanely strong Tera STABs and it's hard to argue that Chien-Pao isn't a top 5-6 mon in the current meta.
I was thinking of making this nom, but after using this mon quite a bit, IDK if it is really that much better than Valiant. I am running both on the same team w/ a Choice item (Band on Pao, Specs on Valiant) and the weakness to Rocks really hurts in this meta, esp since it can be hard to get them off the field. A lot of the time, it feels like the best course of action is to just Tera Dark ASAP to lessen the impact of Stealth Rock, which certainly does help for breaking purposes but can be a risky play since you don't have Tera to help keep other threats in check. Compounding this issue is Rocky Helmet being a pretty common item, meaning that its prone to taking a lot of chip damage by just attacking. While Specs Valiant is weaker and slower, it does feel like it has a bit more flexibility in how often it can switch in & out of bad situations. Its also not THAT hard for it to beat some of its checks and counters either (a predicted Psyshock is doing, like 80+ to Clodsire, Gholdengo doesn't exactly like taking repeated Moonblast or Thunderbolts, etc).

Like, I'm not against this mon rising to S- at all, as its strength and speed are unparallel (Tera Dark Crunch does like 77% to Corv), but its weaknesses feel more noticable than some of the S-Rank threats.
 

memesketch

won't look back, i must shine
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I am running both on the same team w/ a Choice item (Band on Pao, Specs on Valiant) and the weakness to Rocks really hurts in this meta, esp since it can be hard to get them off the field.
Completely agree with this and the other points on Valiant, just want to expand on my position a little. I get that the extreme hazard weakness is really annoying and can limit its opportunities to come in, it's the mon's main problem. At the same time, I've found that part of it is counteracted by the fact that Chien-Pao itself has such a strong matchup against the spinblockers and most of the resident hazard setters in the tier. Plus we're tending to increasingly see it paired with reliable methods of hazard removal when it is running CB/LO, not just Tusk and Corv but anti-meta stuff like Hatt, Treads, offensive Glimm. And a lot of BO and balance teams repurpose it as a cleaner, giving it freedom to use Boots and negating the issue entirely, which I've used recently to huge success. As a final point, you could say almost everything I just said about Chi-Yu as well, which similarly struggles with hazards but adapts and receives support in the same manner to remain supremely threatening.

Compounding this issue is Rocky Helmet being a pretty common item, meaning that its prone to taking a lot of chip damage by just attacking.
This is why I personally think it should almost always run crash, it helps so much with avoiding chip damage. The most common helmet mons also just get folded by crash, and it adds another level to why I think Pao is so good, cause with that Speed it can just sometimes just pull a Weavile and win the game off a crash flinch. I know the main problem helmet poses is that you can try to play around it with a core like Helm Tusk + Dozo or Helm Pex + Ting-Lu, but Pao is so strong that it can often just brute force these kinds of cores with Tera Band and good prediction or SD before they can chip it down enough.
 
ok maybe im crazy but ive been putting in some work with :golduck: -> C. Been using NP / Ice Beam / Surf / Grass Knot and at +2 it OHKOs Dondozo as well as Tera Water Garganacl and Annihilape. Floatzel can struggle to break through those fat water types and Clodsire so having strong natural Grass coverage with Swift Swim is really strong. I've been building rain and struggling a bit to break through Clodsire + Dondozo but Golduck can abuse them both to no end while still having a very good base speed tier in the rain.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top