Completely agree with the sentiment that Wake is absurdly strong. It’s basically Chi-Yu 2 like the only reliable switch in to this thing defensively is Water Absorb Clodsire lmfao. Spam this shit while it lasts because it will not last long here.Well, FWIW, I just finished myexercisingtesting with the Sun team I built. Got 7 games in within an hour and a halfish. 6 of those games were Little Timmy Ubers players.
I went undefeated. 7-0-0, saw most of the Ubers tier being played with the only ones I didn't run into being Bundle, Stone, Cyc, Espa, and funni fish. I even had a Sun mirror match that was... Interesting to play. I won because my Hat got to +2 and lived damage roll on 1.
Some notes from my time:
1. Wake is an absolute MONSTER. Like, this thing is NOT okay lmfao. You absolutely blow things up with Sun boosted Specs Hydro Steams, and forget about the Draco damage. I only Terastalized it once, and that was to ensure it didn't die to Dragapult randomly. (Seriously, you outpace non-Scarf Pult by a mile with Proto Speed Timid.)
2. Torkoal is kind of a sitting duck most of the time. Even with max SpAtk it just didn't quite do a whole lot outside of burning a duck and setting the Sun. I might try throwing Rocks onto it too so I have 2 rockers.
3. Unga Bunga Boongus over here hits like a TRUCK. Sucker Punch was a very useful utility against a couple of Pokemon, and Bullet Seed just sort of nuked a few things. I also learned that it outpaces defensive Sylveon, which was nice.
4. I only "had" to Tera like... 3 times, and 2 of those were on Dengo itself. I guess the coverage on Wake isn't necessary at all with the absolute Fat Man Mini Nuke of a Pokemon we have here. Seriously, it one-shot a Fluttermane.
5. Grass Wake didn't really show up often as a necessity. Maybe Steel would've been the better pick, to snipe the most common Fairies.
6. Tusk is a beast of a tank under Proto, and I don't know if I want to keep my Hat as a Phys Def CM set or a full SpDef set.
7. I could probably see Wake getting axed. This thing is just too strong.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Actually, AV Azumarill is an excellent check to this.
244 SpA Choice Specs Suicune Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 97-114 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO (Same power as Hydro Steam)
244 SpA Choice Specs Suicune Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 73-87 (21.4 - 25.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 390-458 (115 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
AV Azu is about to see a huge rise in popularity in response to this thing.
Edit: Thought I'd explain this a bit. The Hydro Pump here was set to 240 (so sun halves it to 120, which is the power of Hydro Steam in Sun.) So the numbers should be the same.
Also this Azu is a build of mine I enjoy using. 252 Atk / 132 SpDef / 124 Speed with Assault Vest.
It checks the sun variant but on rain you run specs pump and uh
252 SpA Choice Specs Suicune-Ohio Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Rain: 135-159 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Nice switchin bro, would be a shame if something happened to it
Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Tera Blast
this thing is not ok LOOOOOL
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Tera Blast
this thing is not ok LOOOOOL
Side note: Thanks for the devs getting these mons up so quickly, really appreciate it.
Now back to the discussion at hand, I have to thank the council, the voters, and everyone who submitted surveys up until this point, it has brought to a point where I thought the metagame was becoming way more balanced in comparison to the days we had Chi-Yu, Pao, Ape, Espathra running around wild. Walking Wake is literally nostalgia to the broken mons we had running around, it needs to be going to uber via suspect voting or quickban (preferably suspect voting but I'll take what I can). Hydro Steam hits so damn hard (Increasing to 120 BP) without STAB calculated and then you add Tera Water and you put a Choice Specs / Scarf ontop to it sitting under Sun (Protosynthesis) it hits too damn hard for something that is just low effort spamming.
I'll be fine with whatever results but I just seen a huge uptick in the metagame becoming unbalanced again.
Now back to the discussion at hand, I have to thank the council, the voters, and everyone who submitted surveys up until this point, it has brought to a point where I thought the metagame was becoming way more balanced in comparison to the days we had Chi-Yu, Pao, Ape, Espathra running around wild. Walking Wake is literally nostalgia to the broken mons we had running around, it needs to be going to uber via suspect voting or quickban (preferably suspect voting but I'll take what I can). Hydro Steam hits so damn hard (Increasing to 120 BP) without STAB calculated and then you add Tera Water and you put a Choice Specs / Scarf ontop to it sitting under Sun (Protosynthesis) it hits too damn hard for something that is just low effort spamming.
I'll be fine with whatever results but I just seen a huge uptick in the metagame becoming unbalanced again.
After Rocks, yes. But that 34% is pretty favorable, and trading Azu for this behemoth is a pretty damn good trade, IMO. Azu doesn't do much vs Rain as a whole in general.
Yeah, I'd be more than fine seeing a sus test for this thing. I'd even grind out the reqs for it because hooooly mother of god is this thing dumb lol.
It's less of a matter of "would you take that roll" (I wouldn't) and more "wtf this poke casually has a chance to 2hko its best check to one variant this is not okay"
I also just tend to assume Rocks are up at any given point, they're very difficult to keep off the field.
34% is not favorable at all for something that's supposed to be the main stop to Walking Wake, even if hazards aren't up. That's a 3HKO, meaning Azu can only act as a switch-in one time. No sane Wake user is gonna stay in vs an Azu at 66% health.
early impressions is I would rather see it quickbanned. It has some decent natural bulk, with specs in sun you can EV it to get the proto speed boost, with specs this thing hits unimaginably hard, like really really hard, and it can't be outsped by anything unboosted, and has very little switch ins. It's not pao/yu level but with sun support it's faster and way more spammable.
Both of these ARE true, but just as any circular debate here, it's always in a vacuum. I do not doubt that this mon could or will be problematic, but Azu is an option here.
Also, Wish passing is a thing.
I've been running a set similar to this. It's also Specs but I use Tera Steel instead of Tera Grass:Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Tera Blast
this thing is not ok LOOOOOL
Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Tera Blast
I tried to experiment a little with corviknight+spite so I will make the opponent's PP dissapear much faster.
It didn't work well but I feel that it was because I did something wrong.
I believe that if used properly, spite can make it hard if not impossible for walls to heal themselves now that recovery options have only 8 PP.
It didn't work well but I feel that it was because I did something wrong.
I believe that if used properly, spite can make it hard if not impossible for walls to heal themselves now that recovery options have only 8 PP.
Unfortunately it is super super hazard weak and has no recovery, meaning that it will quickly get worn down into range of being picked off as it switches in. If hazards are up at any point, it switches into it only once and gets 2HKOd next time. Even when trying to check sun variants (and this is discounting the use of Tera which makes azu much shakier no matter what).
We uh ...don't exactly have a long list of wish passers who are viable or splashable.
It might be the New Toy Syndrome acting up again, but I'm finding Specs Walking Wake completely impossible to check defensively if Sun is up. It's got that Kartana Speed tier and Hydro Steam plus Protosynthesis plus Tera Water ensures that it has a nice, consistent, spammable move with zero drawbacks. The tier has a huge shortage of bulky Water resists that don't require you blowing your one-time Tera and it's even blowing past resists under the right circumstances.
Max HP Tusk:
Uninvested Gyarados; admittedly a shitmon in OU but still a mon with 95/100 special bulk and a Water resistance thinking it was even remotely capable of switching into it.
I'm not gonna jump the gun on this thing being broken quite yet, but I'm really interested in seeing what sort of defensive counterplay folks will opt to run to keep it in check. Because at a glance, this thing is strooooong for how fast it is. You can't change the weather against it because it blows opposing weather setters up with Hydro Steam alone (think Specs Volcanion's Steam Eruption and what that mon did for Ox Hail last gen) and TTar is mediocre right now regardless of how badly it gets demolished by Hydro Steam, and this thing's defensive typing is better than Volcanion's in some respects (trades a Fairy resist for a Fairy weaknesses, no Ground/Rock weaknesses, keeping a Grass neutrality, and the same 4x Fire resist) with an extremely good Speed tier Volcanion just doesn't have.
If folks are gonna start running Tera Fairy Water Absorb Clodsire or Utility Umbrella on something like Azumarill specifically to check this, I don't know if I'll be a big fan of its influence in this meta.
Max HP Tusk:
Uninvested Gyarados; admittedly a shitmon in OU but still a mon with 95/100 special bulk and a Water resistance thinking it was even remotely capable of switching into it.
I'm not gonna jump the gun on this thing being broken quite yet, but I'm really interested in seeing what sort of defensive counterplay folks will opt to run to keep it in check. Because at a glance, this thing is strooooong for how fast it is. You can't change the weather against it because it blows opposing weather setters up with Hydro Steam alone (think Specs Volcanion's Steam Eruption and what that mon did for Ox Hail last gen) and TTar is mediocre right now regardless of how badly it gets demolished by Hydro Steam, and this thing's defensive typing is better than Volcanion's in some respects (trades a Fairy resist for a Fairy weaknesses, no Ground/Rock weaknesses, keeping a Grass neutrality, and the same 4x Fire resist) with an extremely good Speed tier Volcanion just doesn't have.
If folks are gonna start running Tera Fairy Water Absorb Clodsire or Utility Umbrella on something like Azumarill specifically to check this, I don't know if I'll be a big fan of its influence in this meta.
Meanwhile I'm already running Water Absorb Clod cause I know people
I'm having some Pao flashbacks right now...
Honestly would be surprised if wake stays in this tier for more than a week. I’ve only played with it for an hour, but it’s way better than I expected.
The fact that sun boosts it’s main stab and you get a sun boost from protosynthesis on top of that makes it super strong and super fast. In addition it has good stats, coverage, and offensive typing to make it a complete monster. Not to mention it’s got reasonable bulk and defensive typing to find plenty of opportunities to switch in.
The fact that sun boosts it’s main stab and you get a sun boost from protosynthesis on top of that makes it super strong and super fast. In addition it has good stats, coverage, and offensive typing to make it a complete monster. Not to mention it’s got reasonable bulk and defensive typing to find plenty of opportunities to switch in.
Seriously, I came here excited to try Iron Leaves who countered 4/5 walls in the tier with my new fun Magnezone and Eject Button Toxapex and I got ran over by 5 sun teams in a row, what the actual hell man...
For real though, azumarill is finding such consistency this gen countering so many op threats, it's probably the best and only counter to this new mon aswell which is sad, great gen for it. Hope in dlc new ways to counter it are found cause it's absurd the destruction it can do with specs + protosynthesis.
Iron Moth was a great spd wall before, sad such a big threat came in and ended that plan aswell. Scarf Garchomp and Scarf Sandy Shocks are pretty good rn, since many teams like rain/sun have frail pokemon that get hit hard by them, literally won a game just using tera dragon outrage garchomp. I still want to test scream tail as a wall for walking wake, but I don't want to say for it to be banned so quick when were still barely any hours into this new meta.
Now that iron leaves is in OU gallade will drop in the viability list.
Maybe it will get completely kicked out.
It barely had a niche and now it has severe competition.
Maybe it will get completely kicked out.
It barely had a niche and now it has severe competition.
how are the two even remotely comparable i genuinely do not understand
that's so true, how did i not think of this earlier? man, game freak really does not want gallade to succeed with this newfound competition. can't believe how those old geezers are treating my boy...
in all seriousness, though, what sort of mental gymnastics do you have to go through to unironically justify such a take? how does iron leaves compete with gallade in any way that other fighting and/or psychic types didn't already like gallade's very own future counterpart, iron valiant? i just don't get why leaves in particular is somehow the nail in gallade's coffin? Soiramio3000, what exactly do you mean by this? i'm legit curious at this point
"And from that day he got the title of BANNED DEUCER, because his biggest sin, was speaking the truth"*Takes his aim off of Garganacl for suspect testing and puts it towards Walking Wake*
Do I have to make another 10-page manifesto on Sylveon?
Anyway, I have been also experimenting with Wake, and it's kinda nuts, it deals an insane amount of damage with specs, speed investment timid lets it get 348 which is cool but not enough to outpace Iron Moth so Quark Drive mons get another W, its a fun mon, honestly, I would wait for the meta to settle down again before taking a decision on it, even if that means having to wait for another week for a Garganacl suspect test
But this point, I'm this close to just giving up on this crusade
Okay, this game is DISGUSTING.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1810355985-10l0w94m7oyomd1bz8fyqn1gk44jqcdpw
There was so much crit hax going on all the way to the end of the game. I had maybe... TWO turns of hax in my favor (one crit and one burn) that actually did something for me.
I swear, PS does not like me tonight. Also Wake is a stupid mon, lol.
Edit: Went back and counted. 4 turns of hax for me 6 for them. (5 of which was them critting me, 4 of which were in a row twice.) God PS doesn't like me lol.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1810355985-10l0w94m7oyomd1bz8fyqn1gk44jqcdpw
There was so much crit hax going on all the way to the end of the game. I had maybe... TWO turns of hax in my favor (one crit and one burn) that actually did something for me.
I swear, PS does not like me tonight. Also Wake is a stupid mon, lol.
Edit: Went back and counted. 4 turns of hax for me 6 for them. (5 of which was them critting me, 4 of which were in a row twice.) God PS doesn't like me lol.
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Walking Wake is absolutely much more of a problem than Garganacl ever was. Hydro Steam getting a power boost in Sun means that one downside to being a Water-type just goes completely out of the picture. With this combination of speed, power, coverage, and bulk, I see Walking Wake being the next quickban. There is hardly any workable defensive counterplay to Walking Wake in Sun outside of Water Absorb Clodsire and AV Azumarill.
to be fair, two things garg has trouble switching into just dropped. who knows, they might knock it down a peg
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