Unpopular opinions

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

They may or may not show up again in future if they feel like it (I doubt), but I don't think we'll ever get more of them nor any comparable "pokemon specific" mechanic. At least not in the mainline games.

We probably will see Megas again someday, but mainly if they do show up they'll be in a future game centered around Hoenn or Kalos when we revisit those regions again in the future. Why those two regions specifically? Because Mega Evolution from a lore point of view is pretty strongly associated with Kalos and Hoenn and the phenomenon behind it is mainly taking place in those two regions where Mega Evolution energy is prominent and the Mega Stones were all discovered there.

Their philosophy with super mechanics these days is to rotate old ones out and create a new one introduced in every generation, and each generation's "super mechanic" from a lore standpoint is entrenched in that generation's flagship region's lore. Z-Moves were the super mechanic of Gen 7 and lore-wise it's strongly attached to Alola, Megas and Z-Moves were both removed from Gen 8 and Dynamax was the super mechanic of Galar, and we all know that's associated with Galar. Meanwhile, Dynamax itself was removed in Gen 9 and now we have Terastal, which is strongly associated with Paldea.

And we all know full well at this point that once we get into Gen 10 that Terastal will be out the door and a new super mechanic will take its place. And that super mechanic will be associated with Gen 10's flagship region.

With that said, when we revisit these regions again the corresponding super mechanics will return with them for sure, because from a lore standpoint each super mechanic's in-universe phenomenon is strongly associated with the region it debuted in (Megas are also associated with Hoenn due to ORAS being Gen 6).

They just had a shift in philosophy and decided that the supermechanic must be generic

As I said, it's also a philosophy of rotating new gimmicks in and old ones out every time. Z-Moves and Dynamax are both gone, the former was also dropped after Alola, and Dynamax was now dropped after Galar.

I think Terastal handles being "generic" the best, however, because it's so generic that no one gets special treatment ie a special version of Terastal, Z-Moves and Dynamax tried to be generic but also specific at the same time: you had generic versions of Dynamax and Z-Moves but then certain mons also had signature Z-Moves or special versions of Dynamax called Gigantamax.

 

[Worldie]

With that said, when we revisit these regions again the corresponding super mechanics will return with them for sure, because from a lore standpoint each super mechanic's in-universe phenomenon is strongly associated with the region it debuted in (Megas are also associated with Hoenn due to ORAS being Gen 6).

I think the main contrast between Megas and the other mechanics is that Megastones weren't inherently associated with a region or phenomena.
They were just these things that put in the bracer would let the appropriate pokemon megaevolve.

Z-moves were designed as "almost generic", as a implied connection with Alolan territory was stated but tecnically I don't recall any specific energy shenenigans connected to them. I assume that while designing SM and USUM, they still hadn't fully decided if they wanted to discontinue mechanics or not. I vaguely remind reading that Megas were actually originally not meant to be present in SM and keeping them in was a decision made at later date (and also why they are never used during the game and only show up in the Battle Tree and in the postgame story in USUM which features dimension travel shenenigans).

However once they fully committed to the super mechanic discontinuation, both Dynamax and Terastal were heavily designed "in lore" to have a deep connection with some natural phenomena only present in Galar / Paldea and not present elsewhere.

 

[pika pal]

We probably will see Megas again someday, but mainly if they do show up they'll be in a future game centered around Hoenn or Kalos when we revisit those regions again in the future. Why those two regions specifically? Because Mega Evolution from a lore point of view is pretty strongly associated with Kalos and Hoenn and the phenomenon behind it is mainly taking place in those two regions where Mega Evolution energy is prominent and the Mega Stones were all discovered there.

Their philosophy with super mechanics these days is to rotate old ones out and create a new one introduced in every generation, and each generation's "super mechanic" from a lore standpoint is entrenched in that generation's flagship region's lore. Z-Moves were the super mechanic of Gen 7 and lore-wise it's strongly attached to Alola, Megas and Z-Moves were both removed from Gen 8 and Dynamax was the super mechanic of Galar, and we all know that's associated with Galar. Meanwhile, Dynamax itself was removed in Gen 9 and now we have Terastal, which is strongly associated with Paldea.

And we all know full well at this point that once we get into Gen 10 that Terastal will be out the door and a new super mechanic will take its place. And that super mechanic will be associated with Gen 10's flagship region.

With that said, when we revisit these regions again the corresponding super mechanics will return with them for sure, because from a lore standpoint each super mechanic's in-universe phenomenon is strongly associated with the region it debuted in (Megas are also associated with Hoenn due to ORAS being Gen 6).

I think the main contrast between Megas and the other mechanics is that Megastones weren't inherently associated with a region or phenomena.
They were just these things that put in the bracer would let the appropriate pokemon megaevolve.

Z-moves were designed as "almost generic", as a implied connection with Alolan territory was stated but tecnically I don't recall any specific energy shenenigans connected to them. I assume that while designing SM and USUM, they still hadn't fully decided if they wanted to discontinue mechanics or not. I vaguely remind reading that Megas were actually originally not meant to be present in SM and keeping them in was a decision made at later date (and also why they are never used during the game and only show up in the Battle Tree and in the postgame story in USUM which features dimension travel shenenigans).

However once they fully committed to the super mechanic discontinuation, both Dynamax and Terastal were heavily designed "in lore" to have a deep connection with some natural phenomena only present in Galar / Paldea and not present elsewhere.

What I find funny is that Paldea kind of went back a bit to the "not hard-locked" approach to the gimmick in the region's lore with Terastalizing.

In Gen 8, Dynamax was explicitly only doable in Galar because it depended on an energy that only existed there from Eternatus and was just part of the environment that they drew up in the Stadiums and such. By comparison, Megas and Z-Crystals had regions of origin, but were conducted primarily using objects that simply occur naturally in those regions; though in Z-Moves's case, they kind of overlap with Ultra Space energy if I recall, so you could also just bring them back in any game where the Ultra Beasts make an in-story appearance rather than being strictly-mechanical transfers. Most of the Journeys anime had Megas and Z-Moves come from outside Galar and brought back, while to my recollection any on-screen Dynamax happened in a Galar setting battle, so the company doesn't stick hard and fast to the idea these mechanics can't travel, they simply choose not to (which was arguably one reason the cut mechanics were heavily criticized despite being shown prominently in the anime).

Terastal sort of returns to the previous approach, with enough wiggle room to go whichever way they choose. Terastal crystals only occur in the Great Crater of Paldea as the origin/source of the Phenomena, but it's not the means the player or other characters use to employ it, that instead being the Tera Orbs. The Tera Orbs are explicitly designed to allow Terastalization to be done away from the source Crystals, and seem at least commonplace enough that a student at the Region's biggest school can simply request to receive one despite the Crater itself being off-limits. They can be recharged as part of a routine service like visiting a Pokemon Center compared to how even Galar had Centuries-off Energy concerns about Dynamax for most of the plot, and at no point is the mechanic itself brought up as dangerous, simply serving as an energy source for the actual conflict that caps off "The Way Home".

In short, Terastal as a mechanic the trainers invoke is once again tied to an object that can be taken out of the environment rather than the environment itself within the lore of Gen 9. That said they also added the aspect that Pokemon have inherent Tera Types which is the closest thing to an out they would have in future media, by simply saying the actual Pokemon are incompatible with Terastal outside of Paldean Origin (compared to how any instance of Gengar can Mega Evolve if given a Gengarite). Gen 9's DLC has us going outside of Paldea with explicit mention of another region (compared to Gen 8's being remote but still Galarian areas), so this suggests we can take Terastal outside Paldea and it should work unless the lack of it ends up being the Gimmick of the DLC (pending how they handle Terapagos), which I'm skeptical about since Dynamax/Gigantamax came up frequently in Gen 8's DLC content even if not within its sub-plots.

 

[Worldie]

In short, Terastal as a mechanic the trainers invoke is once again tied to an object that can be taken out of the environment rather than the environment itself within the lore of Gen 9. That said they also added the aspect that Pokemon have inherent Tera Types which is the closest thing to an out they would have in future media, by simply saying the actual Pokemon are incompatible with Terastal outside of Paldean Origin (compared to how any instance of Gengar can Mega Evolve if given a Gengarite). Gen 9's DLC has us going outside of Paldea with explicit mention of another region (compared to Gen 8's being remote but still Galarian areas), so this suggests we can take Terastal outside Paldea and it should work unless the lack of it ends up being the Gimmick of the DLC (pending how they handle Terapagos), which I'm skeptical about since Dynamax/Gigantamax came up frequently in Gen 8's DLC content even if not within its sub-plots.

Tbfh I think there's just a misunderstanding of how the "another region" thing works, because ultimately they say "another region", but it may just well be another part of Paldea OR something that is still somewhat related to the Terastal phenomena.

Most notably, with the actual DLC pack name being "The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero", I am somewhat confident that both DLC substories will end up tieing with the SV story, and that the Terastal Phenomena will be present in both the subacquatic academy and this ""other region"".
(Also, let's be honest, we know that the "other region" will just be the hidden area of the map on north east....)

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

(Also, let's be honest, we know that the "other region" will just be the hidden area of the map on north east....)

I wouldn't say that. The "other region" of part 1 "The Teal Mask", aka Kitakami, seems to be a totally different landmass from Paldea, and it's a school sponsored field trip to another land that has basically a completely different culture from Paldea, seemingly more Japanese-esque. I think this is a completely and utterly separate landmass from Paldea. It's probably going to be a totally separate region in a technical sense: we're going to have two regions in one game again with this I imagine except unlike Johto/Kanto where that was one landmass, these are two separate landmasses entirely. Ogerpon and the three heroes also suggest that this place has its own culture.

I think that hidden area of the map on the northeast is likely where Part 2 of the DLC, or "The Indigo Disk", will take place. While Part 1 is a school trip to another region, Part 2 seems to be taking place closer to Paldea (if not outright in Paldea itself), considering it's focusing on Terapagos the "Disk Pokemon", who is known to be in Area Zero, and it's starring the player being an exchange student in the Blueberry Academy, which was stated in all official information to be a sister academy to the Naranja/Uva Academy. The fact that the Blueberry Academy and Naranja/Uva Academy are sibling schools means that the Blueberry Academy is very likely close in location to Paldea as a result, so I think that hidden area is where the Blueberry Academy and its associated lands are.

The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero's added locations in other words are, from what I can gauge from it, basically taking SwSh's Expansion Pass structure and doing it in a more extreme manner. Part 1 of SwSh's DLC, aka "The Isle of Armor", took place on a nearby island, which Part 1 of SV's DLC, "The Teal Mask", is doing a more extreme version of by taking place in what is basically another region, aka Kitakami, which is presumably far far away from Paldea. Part 2 of SwSh's DLC, aka "The Crown Tundra", takes place in mainland Galar in the southern part of the landmass (aka same landmass), which Part 2 of SV's DLC will likely also do by taking place in that whited out area in the northeast, which is clearly also an extra landmass and related bodies of water that are still part of Paldea.

 

[Yung Dramps]

They may or may not show up again in future if they feel like it (I doubt), but I don't think we'll ever get more of them nor any comparable "pokemon specific" mechanic. At least not in the mainline games.

On this note, I can't help but wonder if the megas were all broken meme is in part the result of a "fox and the grapes" effect. The fanbase has been made to reluctantly realize that nearly 50 highly publicized and largely well-liked alternate super forms have been expunged from the main series with no clue when or even if they'll return, so from there they come up with this stuff to rationalize their absence being a good thing. It's kinda like what Ironmage said but with a slightly different relationship, not so much "Megas being cut was good and just" as "Megas are cut? Well, actually, they always sucked". Those sound kinda similar but there's different vibes to them

 

[Local Dog]

On this note, I can't help but wonder if the megas were all broken meme is in part the result of a "fox and the grapes" effect. The fanbase has been made to reluctantly realize that nearly 50 highly publicized and largely well-liked alternate super forms have been expunged from the main series with no clue when or even if they'll return, so from there they come up with this stuff to rationalize their absence being a good thing. It's kinda like what Ironmage said but with a slightly different relationship, not so much "Megas being cut was good and just" as "Megas are cut? Well, actually, they always sucked". Those sound kinda similar but there's different vibes to them

I feel like people are a lot more positive on megas after they were cut. When they were there, people criticized that they were just the regular mon but bigger, that GF only gave megas to already strong and popular mons and that the mechanic was half-baked. Frankly, all of these are legitimate

 

[pika pal]

I feel like people are a lot more positive on megas after they were cut. When they were there, people criticized that they were just the regular mon but bigger, that GF only gave megas to already strong and popular mons and that the mechanic was half-baked. Frankly, all of these are legitimate

GF took that personally and then every single one of these problems happened/was amplified when Dynamax came to be, which is around the time I noticed a lot of the Mega negativity take a backseat even if not necessarily disappear. Got some perspective.

 

[Samtendo09]

GF took that personally and then every single one of these problems happened/was amplified when Dynamax came to be, which is around the time I noticed a lot of the Mega negativity take a backseat even if not necessarily disappear. Got some perspective.

While I did liked the concept of Dynamax, the execution all-around felt too half-baked to male it worth it, and it does not help that the mechanic itself went too far. Kaiju battles are a potential, but this ain’t cutting it.

But that doesn’t stop me from deprecating Mega Evolution. If anything, I used to be very positive with Mega Evolution, despite issues of their own. But as time passes, while cutting it is not an ideal solution, I did realizes that the flaws were way worse than I thought.

Between too much bias on fan favorites, abysmal balancing act with Mega Evolution, pushing things too far with Mega Rayquaza and the Primal Reversions, tiring out too fast with the designs, the risk of far worsened item bloating and so on… I don’t think Mega Evolution returning is going to please everyone if some of these flaws aren’t addressed, or worse, have these flaws amplified to the point people don’t want them anymore.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

GF took that personally and then every single one of these problems happened/was amplified when Dynamax came to be, which is around the time I noticed a lot of the Mega negativity take a backseat even if not necessarily disappear. Got some perspective.

Also not only that, but Dynamax amplified/created all of those problems while being significantly less interesting than both Z-Moves and Mega Evolution both from a gameplay and a flavor point of view.

Regardless of what you think about Mega Evolution from an execution standpoint, one cannot deny that Megas are genuinely interesting and in many ways fun both from a gameplay and flavor standpoint. Mega Evolutions are effectively an evolved form of the mon who Mega Evolves, they have a brand new appearance that is a progression of their original form, they are the pinnacle of their evolutionary line. And there's a lot of new designs that came from it. And battle wise, they have higher stats in some areas, in many cases different abilities, new type combos, different stat builds, and whatnot: they're like a new and stronger Pokemon. It's a very fun mechanic, with the Pokemon capable of it basically unlocking their "ultimate forms", with the flashy new and standout designs, and mechanically they change with new battle capabilities or just being stronger overall.

Dynamax on the other hand isn't anywhere near as interesting. It's not only insanely overpowered and broken, but mechanically it's active for three turns, involves spamming Max Moves for stat boosts/weather/terrain, and then wears off. No fundamental stat boosts to the Pokemon either: it's a temporary generic HP boost but the rest of the Pokemon's stats are fundamentally similar. But flavor wise it's also pretty bland: it's basically "haha Pokemon goes giant". No new design, it's literally just the mon but super large. Now there are a few cases where they do have a new design, Gigantamax, but in those cases gameplay wise that's still not as unique as Mega Evolution, as there are no stat changes, ability changes, or anything: just a unique signature G-Max Move which can be in many cases inferior to the base Max Move. There's not enough of a difference there to justify the different special form that mon has access to, unlike Megas where the mon fundamentally changes in many ways and gets stronger in a genuinely fun way.

I suppose that's where my issue with Dynamax as a mechanic is: aside from the fact that it was insanely busted and overpowered and required no skill for its use, it's just too boring for how strong it is. The generic version of it is literally "haha Pokemon goes giant sized", and while there's a "special" version of it that changes appearance, the ones who got it feel cynically motivated and there's not enough of a difference between their special G-Max forms and the generic Dynamax version to justify the different form (it's literally just one special move that can be in many ways inferior to the base Max Move), and mechanically it's also basically nothing more than an HP boost and special generic high powered moves that cause powerful secondary effects to an extremely overpowering degree: in other words, it's overpowered in a really boring way. There's no real depth to the mechanic whatsoever.

Even Z-Moves, while not as interesting to me as Mega Evolution or Terastal, had more interesting things going for them because status Z-Moves had a variety of interesting effects if used with certain non-damaging moves to a point where you could feasibly justify even using otherwise useless or situational non-damaging moves on a moveset for an interesting effect with a Z-Crystal in tow.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

A lot of the Gmax moves had the same or very similar animations than their max move counterpart, and all of them but the Galar starters' had identical base powers to their max move counterpart, which made them feel even less like unique moves in their own right and more like "it's just the regular max move but we swapped out the effect for a different effect".

 

[Cheryl.]

Not sure if this is unpopular now but I'm gonna say it anyways. I still have my problems with Z-moves but I do miss how they made pretty much EVERY move useful. Event-exclusive stuff like Happy Hour and Celebrate became actually good moves with Z-power, Conversion became one of the most interesting moves Pokemon's ever had with its Z-move's effect, and even Splash had niche uses with a random +3 Attack boost. Where I have problems is with how hard it buffed already attacking moves, but I definitely miss its effects on other usually useless moves.

 

[Samtendo09]

I suppose that's where my issue with Dynamax as a mechanic is: aside from the fact that it was insanely busted and overpowered and required no skill for its use, it's just too boring for how strong it is.

The bolded part is also what I had issue with Mega Salamence, Mega Metagross, Gen 8 Zacian, Calyrex and it’s two steeds, Magearna, Mega Rayquaza, Palafin’s Hero form, both Koraidon and Miraidon (moreso the latter), Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, and I’d argue Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle. Of course the last one being overpowered compared to the sorry excuse of a joke called Delibird is pure hilarity, but that’s not the point.

What they have in common is snowball like crazy or focus so much on damage and speed that it counters and checks are too limited even in friendly online plays, because GF keep forgetting how too important Speed stat is. Most of them are far less problematic in Doubles, due to nature of Double targeting and more ways for Speed Controls, which is why the power creep is not immediately apparent for Game Freak as VGC is Double-oriented. Even then, Gen 8 Zacian, Shadow Calyrex and Magearna still took things too far without bringing anything new to the table.

 

[Sonikku A]

WeedleTwineedle is proof that Doubles/VGC is better than singles for competitive

I will forever love their strats, memes, and unironically having a team be;
Cherrim
Relicanth
IndeedeeF
Ninetales
Grookey
Eiscue

And

Chansey
Hitmontop
Entei
Eternatus
Stonjourner
Escavalier

 

[NaturalTropius]

Personally? I thought megas were super cool! I was also 10 years old when they were revealed. Now that I'm 20, I still really like a bunch of the designs, but I'm not torn up that they're gone.

 

[Coronis]

Most of them are far less problematic in Doubles, due to nature of Double targeting and more ways for Speed Controls, which is why the power creep is not immediately apparent for Game Freak as VGC is Double-oriented.

Thats the whole point. They couldn’t really give a fuck about Singles because its not the official meta.

Its interesting to me of course, since there are barely any double battles in game.

Also unpopular opinion that is more competitive than ingame but w/e; team preview ruined competitive. Thats why I’ve only ever played Randbats when I occasionally go back on PS. You don’t get to see your opponents teams ingame, and it limits any gimmick/surprise strategies severely. Booooring.

 

[Worldie]

I'd point that TECNICALLY singles also has a official meta, that being BSS, which however follows significantly different ruleset than 6v6 singles.
The bring 6 pick 3 format, item clause, no transfer moves, etc significantly change the dynamics of the game.

As for team preview... while I agree that team preview kills most gimmmick and surprise strats, I disagree that it ruined competitive.

I would point to Freezai's video about open team sheets where he goes over a similar point: while it does reduce the amount of viable options, there are some toxic mechanics at play during actually big events with the information games, where people would basically be punished for playing early, being famous, or just having their match shown.
With knowledge of the opponent teams, the result of the match is more dependant on the skill of the players.

 

[Sonikku A]

The Show 6 but pick 3 is a generally good format. Team preview doesn't dictate moves used either

 

[Worldie]

The Show 6 but pick 3 is a generally good format. Team preview doesn't dictate moves used either

Agree, I am a big fan of both the BSS and VGC format, where you actually can carry separate team styles, multiple gimmick users (like multiple megas in gen 6-7) or "specific counters" without actually gimping yourself, and pick the ones you feel most appropriate for a given match.

 

[Candelia]

Dunno if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I'd say that Mimikyu should get rebuffed in some way. Might be my blind hatred towards the electric rat, or my salt towards the Disguise nerf, I just want my lil rag to be good again.

 

[DreamPrince]

Dunno if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I'd say that Mimikyu should get rebuffed in some way. Might be my blind hatred towards the electric rat, or my salt towards the Disguise nerf, I just want my lil rag to be good again.

Disguise nerf was probably due to Mimikyu being the best Pokemon in BSS. Since most of the West is unaware of BSS, Mimikyu has always been one of the best Pokémon in BSS thanks to Disguise being a Free Focus Sash, and that huge in 3v3 since it is very fast paced format. It has been very versatile as well, ranging from Swords Dance to Curse and Trick. People would often Sash Mimikyu as well in Gen 7 prior to the nerf.

 

[Hugin]

Not sure if this is unpopular now but I'm gonna say it anyways. I still have my problems with Z-moves but I do miss how they made pretty much EVERY move useful. Event-exclusive stuff like Happy Hour and Celebrate became actually good moves with Z-power, Conversion became one of the most interesting moves Pokemon's ever had with its Z-move's effect, and even Splash had niche uses with a random +3 Attack boost. Where I have problems is with how hard it buffed already attacking moves, but I definitely miss its effects on other usually useless moves.

Yes. Give every move a base power boost(or BP+bonus effect)? Boring. Make Mirror Move boost your attack and call a Z-Move? That's interesting and requires timing to use properly.

So Dynamax made every non-attack move Protect+ because of course it did.

 

[Candelia]

Yes. Give every move a base power boost(or BP+bonus effect)? Boring. Make Mirror Move boost your attack and call a Z-Move? That's interesting and requires timing to use properly.

So Dynamax made every non-attack move Protect+ because of course it did.

I definitely agree, Dynamax could've been taken a more interesting way instead of "oooo big nombrs big ataks monke brain go hohohohohoho".

They could've even just gone with Protect moves going to Protect+ while stat boosts and whatnot had some cool lookin' effect like Z-Moves did.

 

[Sonikku A]

On one hand, Dynamax turning status moves to protect 2.0 helps for unpredictability

On the other hand, Z move tier status moves would help WeedleTwineedle a lot

The gains are better than the cons

 

[Pikachu315111]

And we all know full well at this point that once we get into Gen 10 that Terastal will be out the door and a new super mechanic will take its place. And that super mechanic will be associated with Gen 10's flagship region.

Hm, I'm curious to see what they would do for Gen 10. 10 is a pretty significant number, and though the super mechanics are linked to a certain generation GF can just as easily decide another region has the super mechanic (whether it be naturally or something manmade). I've thought up of a possible plausible way of combining the mechanics together (as well at letting you use them multiple times), so I'm sure GF can too.

A lot of the Gmax moves had the same or very similar animations than their max move counterpart, and all of them but the Galar starters' had identical base powers to their max move counterpart, which made them feel even less like unique moves in their own right and more like "it's just the regular max move but we swapped out the effect for a different effect".

So these are facts, where's the (unpopular) opinion?

Dunno if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I'd say that Mimikyu should get rebuffed in some way. Might be my blind hatred towards the electric rat, or my salt towards the Disguise nerf, I just want my lil rag to be good again.

Maybe give it a Signature Move that works alongside the changes: Patch Up. Only works if Disguise is broken. When used it repairs Disguise and heals Mimikyu 1/16th of its max HP every turn unless Disguise is broken again.