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SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion
- Thread starter Jellicent
- Start date
Whilst I’m sketchy on WHO it was, it was someone who works on the anime currently, an interview came out a few weeks (maybe a few months?) ago that stated there is potential for Ash to return, and if he does, he will be 10
whilst I would love for Ash to return, it needs to be truly impactful to Liko’s character (as I assume she is going to be the “main” character of she and Roy) and not just some sloppy fan service.
my ultimate want for that would be something similar to how Aang appeared to Korra in LoK but that would require a pre-existing relationship and that’s not happening. Either way, I just hope it’s done right lol
whilst I would love for Ash to return, it needs to be truly impactful to Liko’s character (as I assume she is going to be the “main” character of she and Roy) and not just some sloppy fan service.
my ultimate want for that would be something similar to how Aang appeared to Korra in LoK but that would require a pre-existing relationship and that’s not happening. Either way, I just hope it’s done right lol
I'd even say further evidence of this is that next episode Ash is going up against a batch of Pokemon Hunters. The Rocket Trio have a history of going up against bigger villains when they appear (sometimes even forming a temporary truce with the twerps, like when Hunter J first appeared).
Going to predict that, just as things are looking bad for Ash and he's otherwise "done" for, the Rocket Trio will swoop out of nowhere and save him (we don't really need to see them reunite on-screen as we've seen it happen plenty times before, let them have their big damn hero moment).
And after that, who knows. I'd agree with the idea of them quitting Team Rocket, though that's also kind of just leaving the "fate" of Team Rocket (and Giovanni) go unanswered. If I were writing things, I would have the Rocket Trio indeed agree to quit Team Rocket are the end of next episode, but then in one of the last few scenes of the last episode Giovanni appearing in front of the Rocket Trio as they're wondering down a road wondering what should they do now. At first shocked, they muster up the courage to tell him they quit... only for Giovanni to then tell them that's alright because he's disbanding Team Rocket... for now. Turns out the international police have gotten pretty close to Giovanni's whereabouts so he has decided to go underground. However, he says he and Team Rocket will come back one day, and that he has a secret mission he only can entrust with the Rocket Trio who has been his most loyal agents. Not only does he let them keep all their old Pokemon (maybe also Delibird, Pelipper and the Rocket Prize Master), he also gives them one of his secret bank accounts so that they have the funds needed to do the mission and the rest "a bonus". Thus we end Team Rocket more permanently, not only has the main branch disbanded and Giovanni going into hiding, but the Rocket Trio finally are given their dues; respect from the boss, all of their Pokemon, and plenty rich.
Was there any question why they were on there?
Though interestingly Landau doesn't have a partner even though he's the one with the most Pokemon-based design (as Yung Dramps has accepted as his master).
It was a decent episode. Breakdancing Amoongus is always nice and we did see some old Pokemon at least being acknowledged that didn't make in the episode. But it is still not like seeing them reunite with Arbok and Weezing.
It also doesn't look like any of the Pokemon got any new moves but I like Giovanni finally acknowledging the work of Jesse, James and Meowth. Even sending their Pokemon back without any hint they were doing some bothersome stuff. They were even got something to eat delivered. Neat.
It also doesn't look like any of the Pokemon got any new moves but I like Giovanni finally acknowledging the work of Jesse, James and Meowth. Even sending their Pokemon back without any hint they were doing some bothersome stuff. They were even got something to eat delivered. Neat.
The interview in question was misconstrued by Dogasu, and for the record the person being interviewed was Kunihiko Yuyama, who is the owner of OLM (the studio that does the Pokemon anime) and who was the executive director of Ash's story from OS to SM and the creative director for Journeys.
Here's what he actually said:
"As the forever 10 year old, Ash has always traveled carrying the feelings of being a a 10 year old from the viewers on his back. The journey is still going on somewhere, and will continue in everyone's hearts, but nothing lasts forever. If I had any parting words, they would be bon voyage, I hope we get to meet again somewhere. Best Wishes! Have a great trip!".
Frankly Ash's tenure as main protagonist of the anime is over as we all know, and with Yuyama stepping down I think Ash will never actually appear as a protagonist again. PM23 has Yuyama completely hands off and he's passed the torch to the newer staff of OLM to take the reins for Liko's story.
With that said, I could see Ash being mentioned in passing every now and then from here on out, as a shout-out to his legacy. Especially since he's leaving on a high note being the World Champion and a living legend as the greatest Trainer who ever lived, that of course means that he's basically a legendary figure in-universe now. He's always on a journey, so he's still out there, and no one really knows where he is at any given point. But he could occasionally be mentioned as the living legend he is, being a great legendary Trainer that many aspiring and new Trainers alike dream of becoming like someday.
But for now that's as far as I'd expect in terms of Ash being acknowledged again in the future. Maybe in Gen 10 and beyond we could see him in person for guest appearances like his friends have made every now and then. For PM23 specifically I would much prefer to keep Ash's presence in the anime to a minimum. Liko is the first new protagonist for the Pokemon anime in a long time, and she's got some big shoes to fill following in the footsteps of a character who has been iconic for so long. She needs to stand on her own two feet as a protagonist and be able to forge her own identity and her own story outside of Ash's shadow. Ash can be acknowledged in passing every now and then, but for now with Gen 9's anime I'd rather not see him in a significant capacity else they risk him overshadowing Liko and Roy in what is supposed to be their new story to tell.
I just wish it didn't take them this long to realize Pokemon could go go on with new characters. If the show ended 10-15 years ago it would have had tighter continuity and a stronger ending. I remember people speculating the end of Ash since the Johto/Hoenn/DP days and it makes you wonder if the series ended back then, and then bringing in new leads from the games, would have worked over a decade ago.
So am I missing something that says Liko is specifically the new main character? Like, Roy is always shown right aside Liko, to me that tells me he's as much as the main character as Liko is.
I assume Liko and Roy will be co-protagonists like Ash and Go were, especially since the set-up of the new series seems very similar to Journey's in general where they'll be exploring all regions rather than just being in Paldea.
At the very least though, I hope Liko challenges Gyms. We got robbed out of a female companion doing Gyms forever because Ash would always do them, so the female companion had to either do Contests or just....nothing at all. With Ash no longer around, there's nothing preventing the writers from finally having the main female do the Gym challenge. Let her do the Paldea Gym leaders.
At the very least though, I hope Liko challenges Gyms. We got robbed out of a female companion doing Gyms forever because Ash would always do them, so the female companion had to either do Contests or just....nothing at all. With Ash no longer around, there's nothing preventing the writers from finally having the main female do the Gym challenge. Let her do the Paldea Gym leaders.
Oh no I'm not saying that Roy isn't a main character for this new series, of course he's a protagonist in a way as well. They're doing the dual protagonist style that Ash and Goh were in Journeys once again.
I'm highlighting Liko specifically however in that while Liko and Roy are pulling the dual protagonist style of cast for Gen 9's anime, it does seem however that Liko will be the more prominent of the two a la Ash, ie she's the main main character of the show like Ash has historically been. While they've both been shown, Liko has always been more prominent between the two, the latest trailer showed more scenes of her and none from Roy, and it seems she's the primary focus while Roy's story will be secondary. And when the highlight case members, Liko is shown first, and she's always more in the front in posters that show them together suggesting she's the more prominent main character of the two who has the more prominent story that will get the spotlight. I do think she'll be more of the direct successor to Ash in that regard, and I think she's the one between the two who will get bigger focus, and her story will also involve her being the battler of the two. Whether that be taking on Paldea's Gym Challenge to some extent or doing a special spin on what Ash has historically done. In other words, I think she's the "Ash" between the two so to speak.
Using the directly preceding series, Journeys, as an example, seeing as how this season is taking after the format Journeys took with Ash and Goh being "dual protagonists", Roy seems more like the "Goh" of the duo, who is also a co-star of the show, but ultimately his story is seemingly still going to be the secondary focus compared to Liko and he won't be the main battler of the two. It's like how when they pulled the Ash+Goh duo for Journeys, ultimately Ash was still the bigger focus with him taking on the World Coronation Series, while Goh was still secondary and his story involved catching Pokemon and later meeting Mew. In that sense Roy is taking more after Goh, and I think his story will involve something other than hardcore battling and basically be a secondary perspective and story that the Gen 9 anime will tell, with Liko being the primary one in that sense.
Hopefully that clears things up.
Alright, I can see that. Though are they pushing Liko because she is as you describe, the primary main protagonist, OR are they pushing her because she's a cute anime girl.
Because the series hasn't even started and already I'm feeling sorry for both of them. Roy is being forgotten despite having his own mystery hook which possibly relates to a Shiny Rayquaza, and Liko is having a batch of expectations being put upon her as the one who'll succeed Ash even though we have no clue what her goals are or if they involve battling. Until they say something specific, I'm just going to treat these characters are blank slates.
Liko is getting pushed as the newer Ash probably because they want it to be a distinct break.
If Roy was pushed he'd probably just been seen as the Ash expy (he's even from Kanto); he keeps the various male design ethos Ash has cycled through so like I feel the comparisons are going to happen anyway. Liko by virute of being a girl and not playing into those design tropes gets to stand out more.
Which is to say she's pushed because she's the primary protagonist and a cute anime girl.
If Roy was pushed he'd probably just been seen as the Ash expy (he's even from Kanto); he keeps the various male design ethos Ash has cycled through so like I feel the comparisons are going to happen anyway. Liko by virute of being a girl and not playing into those design tropes gets to stand out more.
Which is to say she's pushed because she's the primary protagonist and a cute anime girl.
In the Pokemon Theme thread I made a post of a neat little remix the Official Pokemon Channel commission from the artist Night Tempo which mixed the anime's Japanese and English first openers:
The reason I'm posting it here because the Japanese Official Channel also released a special video. According to Google translate, in the
Shinjuku Station on it's "Shinjuku Wall 456" they'll be broadcasting a video showcasing all of Ash's achievements, friends, and Pokemon using all the LEDs screens. However for those who can't see it they posted it on the Youtube channel:
The reason I'm posting it here because the Japanese Official Channel also released a special video. According to Google translate, in the
Shinjuku Station on it's "Shinjuku Wall 456" they'll be broadcasting a video showcasing all of Ash's achievements, friends, and Pokemon using all the LEDs screens. However for those who can't see it they posted it on the Youtube channel:
Rumour has it a certain bird is returning in next week's episode
New details on the "mysterious guy" - his name is Amejio - the others featured at a group of explorers; Jill and Conia.
There's also a new video focuses on Amejio
Also another new character called Gurumin who is a video maker, but his identify is a secret;
And our last ever trailer for Ash & Pikachu's adventure
Spoilers for today's episode - I haven't seen it but I've seen clips and basically;
New details on the "mysterious guy" - his name is Amejio - the others featured at a group of explorers; Jill and Conia.
There's also a new video focuses on Amejio
Also another new character called Gurumin who is a video maker, but his identify is a secret;
And our last ever trailer for Ash & Pikachu's adventure
Spoilers for today's episode - I haven't seen it but I've seen clips and basically;
no latias capture, and Movie 5 is now canon as they show Bianca during the end scene
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Movies being canon/non-canon is mostly fan speculation with no actual word from the creators of the anime themselves due to continuity errors(which happens all time with animated movies based on anime that run alongside said anime due to different people often working on them). The only movies that are any close to being confirmed to being created with the intention of being non-canon to the anime are the three from Gen VII/VIII because the first one was a retelling of parts of the original anime and the latter two are sequels to that.
Seems like the anime will end open ended for Ash and TR, which works in case they want to revisit them for movies or specials down the line. It actually works better this way, Ash was never going to stop traveling and if TR and Giovanni ever get a proper conclusion I'd rather see a special or movie dedicated to it.
Also minor spoiler here, but Ash, Misty and Brock will split up again before Ash heads back to Pallet alone in the last ep. Not that surprising but I saw speculation they would continue to travel together off-screen. Misty will likely return to the Gym and Brock to his doctor duties.
Also minor spoiler here, but Ash, Misty and Brock will split up again before Ash heads back to Pallet alone in the last ep. Not that surprising but I saw speculation they would continue to travel together off-screen. Misty will likely return to the Gym and Brock to his doctor duties.
Ha ha, Bill reference.
Rainbow Rocket movie when?
I didn't know what to think about Team Rocket's episode last week but now I can say I was enjoying it until the last 5 minutes. Glad to see all the TR gang teaming up but then Latias comes in and quickly defeats them so we can move on to the next episode's plot, that was disappointing. After that, Team Rocket discuss with themselves and break up the team...huh? This was doing waves on social media, "Team Rocket Dissolves After More Than 20 Years", and yet now that I got to watch this series I can say it came with 0 buildup whatsoever, a rushed moment just to shock viewers. It sucks bc they could've had them separate in earlier episodes and having them rekindle throughout. But this close to the end, now the show has to juggle that plus Ash's finale, so it's going to feel rushed. At worst, they are staying separated as a way to hook viewers to watch the new series, for the possibility to watch them together again...
Ngl that moment was so forced it reminded me to the freakin Scooby Doo movie, yup that low.
Episode 10 was just fine, that Alto Mare cameo confused me more than making me nostalgic bc I thought it was clear this Latias isn't the same one from the movie, is she her successor? Also why they don't trust humans? Aren't Bianca and Lorenzo taking care of them like they did with the previous Lati@s duo? Eh, not a fan of leaving things open ended here...
Ngl that moment was so forced it reminded me to the freakin Scooby Doo movie, yup that low.
Episode 10 was just fine, that Alto Mare cameo confused me more than making me nostalgic bc I thought it was clear this Latias isn't the same one from the movie, is she her successor? Also why they don't trust humans? Aren't Bianca and Lorenzo taking care of them like they did with the previous Lati@s duo? Eh, not a fan of leaving things open ended here...
I have to say, I loved the latest Episode of Pokemon. Pokemon Heroes may not be my favorite movie, but I kinda like that Latios and Latias went to the town where we first saw them animated it and even seeing the girl from the movie implying these Latias and Latios are the successors of the movie ones even if the movie and anime aren't canonically related in the minds of the authors, but more an easter egg.
But really, we need to see Pidgeot back.
Of all Pokemon that need to come back, it has to be him because Ash promised to pick him up again.
But really, we need to see Pidgeot back.
Of all Pokemon that need to come back, it has to be him because Ash promised to pick him up again.
That was added in the English dub by 4kids. The original Japanese version had no such line at all.
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Yeah, this actually felt like a last minute decision cause there been plenty (and could have been plenty) of opportunities not just in these episodes but during Journeys (the writers knew they were retiring Ash) to feature a Legendary and have Ash think back to his movie adventure with that character:
Mewtwo (M01 & 16): The only other confirmed movie cameo, though at that time was purely fanservice so I thought nothing of it. Cause otherwise, if they had planned ahead to do some quick cameo of movie characters, at the end of the episode they could have Ash also think of the other time he had an adventure with Mewtwo and we see a scene of the M16 Mewtwo visiting with the Genesect Army in the Absentia Natural Park.
Lugia (M02 & Whirl Islands): Another one they could have had a two-fer with. After the Lugia Raid episode could have had a quick scene of Melody practicing her ocarina looking out onto the three islands & one with an slightly older Oliver riding on the back of an also slightly older (though much bigger) Silver.
Unown (M03): After resolving the problem of a group of Unown which were keeping a town in permanent night due to a little girl not wanting to part with her Cleffa friend, could have seen how Molly was doing (since she'll be slightly older, maybe show she is now on her own Pokemon journey and show she caught the early stages of some of the Pokemon she used in the movie).
Lucario (M08 & Riley): Ash got a Riolu which evolved into a Lucario and connected to it via aura. Now the main standout NPCs of that movie were Sir Aaron and Lucario, who are dead, so I guess we don't need a cameo of other characters from that movie. But what would have been nice to see was Riley. Would have been an easy setup too: though connected via aura Ash and Riolu are having problems syncing up. Ash remembers about Riley and goes to see him and ask if he could help and Riolu get on the same wavelength. And hey, Riley in the anime is an Aura Guardian (infact in the episode they met him he said he was in-training, so they could reveal Riley has since become a master). Maybe have Ash help Riley with some Aura Guardian business, and as a more synced Ash & Riolu leave back to Cerise Labs, we could fade to inside Cameran Palace where we see Queen Ilene and her attendants walking past the painting of Sir Aaron and his Lucario.
Dialga, Palkia, & Arceus (M10, 11, & 12): I forgot that the Sinnoh Journey episodes are actually their own specials called the "Arceus Chronicles". Well, anyway, in the last episode when the day has been saved and time & space has returned to normal could have seen some scenes/characters from those movies. I'm imagining for M10 just a quick shot of Alice & Tonia in the garden with Darkrai hanging about. And they could combine M11 and 12 together by having Newton (and maybe a casually dressed Zero, showing he has reformed) meeting with Sheena and Kevin showing them the Time-Space Axis.
And from there if they wanted to include cameos from other movies they would have needed to have an episode with the Legendary or Titled Pokemon in it.
From Bulbapedia: "Latios and Latias going to Alto Mare at the end of this episode references the fact that many individuals of their species come and go from the city. This was originally revealed in the prologue of Pokémon Heroes: Latios & Latias, which was cut from the dub."
While not necessarily intentional, the end of the episode had the feel of a nice bookending parallel to the beginning of the games.
I have always seen this as more of a problem of people caring too much about continuity when the staff just want to make a lighthearted episodic show, they are fine if 90% of the material has no relevancy to whatever story they want to tell this time, movies can be as canon as any random episode that doesn't affect the plot, they may reference them or contradict them depending on what they want to do this time.
Also, people just assuming the dub doesn't change important dialogue just makes the problem worse.
I watched the Japanese version recently and there he said he would pick him up later.