I'll agree once I can recognize that it has indeed branched instead of just taking a turn. If and when there's a recent ambitious game that focuses on the parts of the series I want to get out of a cartridge (as distinct from BDSP not changing any major aspects and thus accidentally keeping what brought me into the series), I'll cut Let's Go, Legends, and the open-world parts of SwSh and SV some slack. Unfortunately, I can't bring myself to do that right now.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
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The last non-remake "traditional" mainline games were XY, a decade ago. Sun/Moon and sequels completely changed the gym challenge, eliminated HMs, and went with a very different map style. Let's Go was a remake and also was Let's Go. Sword/Shield then even got rid of the Ride replacements to HMs and went with an open world section and pokes visible in the overworld, as well as completely changing the E4. And then SV did...all of that. I don't know what the next games will bring, but "Linear 8 gyms into the E4 with the standard battle system" doesn't seem in the cards.
Open world, exclusively overworld-visible pokemon, 3 storylines, E4 not being the start of the postgame...I really enjoyed it, but it was definitely about as far from a mainline game as it's possible to be without major mechanic changes.
AKA the general problems with Mega Pokemon, especially those of "weaker" or "niche" Pokemon who weren't given OP stat increase, Type change or new Ability. Not to mention all Mega Pokemon (except Rayquaza) need to give up their Item slot further holding back the lower tier Mega Pokemon.
Saying all this, I wonder if Mega Pokemon ever came back it should be redone. It was their first attempt at a Super Mechanic, I don't think anyone would blame them for a redo. Obviously don't toss out the designs, but I would take to heart what worked with Super Mechanics after Mega. Like one thing I would suggest without getting into hypotheticals: Allowing any Pokemon on your team capable of Mega Evolving to do so without giving up the Item slot. Give that flexibility which Dynamax and now Terastal have.
Well, how much is that the concept's fault and how much is it GF's? The failings of Legends story I don't think is because the concept was bad but more on GF's shoulder of just not knowing what story to tell. You would think with two former warring clans (a peace which is only a recent thing so tensions should still high between the two; and I mean that in a "your clan has killed members of my family" way and not the schoolyard squabbling the two leaders have with each other) who still have clashing beliefs would be enough to make a conflict out of. But no, for some reason at the end of the main game your boss goes crazy, blames you for all that's happening, most everyone turn on you for no reason, and you now have to figure out how to fix everything before they get themselves all killed (and possibly destroy the world). Like, if you didn't want to present the Galaxy Expedition Team as all good guys that's fine, there are ways to do that like misunderstanding the clans which only worsen their rivalry.
Also how much is that Legends just being the first game in its subseries so for fans expecting a typical Pokemon adventure would be taken aback to how it was setup? The game seemed to wanted to lean more on the catching side of the franchise than the battling, thus simplified the battling mechanics (which included no Abilities) while expanding on your catching capabilities. This is present in the Noble Battles where it's as much as you dodging around the Pokemon and finding moments to throw balms at it (and while you can battle the Noble, you can beat them without battling). And of course they could always improve the battling mechanics, add back in most Abilities, and have more Trainers to battle. They just wanted to do something very different, and now having done so, can take what they learn and improve the experience all around.
Now, I will agree not every gen needs a Legends game, BUT there are some which I wouldn't mind be interested in seeing. We can skip Gen I & II. I guess ORAS did add an interesting history with the Draconid people in III but I feel that just works as simple backstory so skip. Gen V I think could have an interesting Legends game as much about the old Unova kingdom and the two prince brothers is left up in the air; and I see plenty of room where they could potentially do some plot twists. Gen VI has the Kalos war but considering how that ends probably not something GF wants to follow-up on. Gen VII is an interesting case as they could expand the definition of what the "Legend" series is and have it focus on dimension jumping. Gen VIII is sort of like Gen III where there is past story but it's better as backstory, though it would clear up exactly WHAT happened in with the original Darkest Day. And finally Gen IX had a whole history class worth of potential Legends story.
Wish they got someone to make another Colosseum, or at least Colosseum-like. Sadly part of the charm of Colosseum was that you could do Pokemon battling in 3D (as in using 3d models not 3d effectt)!... which meant when Pokemon switched to 3d in Gen VI killed the appeal of those games. Well, in theory, there was much more to games like Colosseum and even Battle Revolution than just having 3d battles, but question is does GF and the Pokemon Company see that.
If only.
Would like to see that too, but there may be one thing holding that back: GameFreak. GF seem determined to make it so only THEY can make mainline Pokemon games, but they're not big enough to make more than one at a time.
I say it all depends on the story they want to tell. Granted, a lot of these stories do feel they're partially made seeing ways they can re-structure a Pokemon League, but that doesn't mean we won't ever see the traditional formula of Gen I-VI ever again (though I think things like challenging the E4 in any order and maybe now challenging the Gyms in any order may be standard unless the story decides it wants to be linear like back in the old days). Let's see:
Alola: Island Challenge instead of Pokemon League. Reason for this is because the game IS the telling of the creation of Alola's Pokemon League. Thus young trainers went on a rite of passage stemmed from ancient traditions for their journey.
Galar: A Professional Pokemon League. This is very much them playing with the Pokemon League concept, treating it as if it was a major sport like Soccer. Each Type had a Gym with them all battling each year to determine which 8 is placed in the Major League for participating trainers (all who need to get a sponsor) to travel around too. And with the idea the Major League are the "best of the best", also makes sense that instead of an Elite Four to just have a part of the Champion tournament be where those Gym Leaders (and the participant trainer who defeated all the other trainers that got all the Badges) battle one another in a knock-out tournament where one of them could be the one to challenge and defeat the Champion.
Paldea: An academic venture. This one is partially story as I don't think you need to be part of the Academy to challenge the Paldea League. But, since the player is, the story treats it as something connected to the major class assignment "Treasure Hunt". It's the closest to go back to the 8 Gyms, 4 Elite Four, but with the twist the Gyms can TECHNICALLY be battled in any order (they they still have set levels so there is an order you can generally follow) and there's TWO Champions. I feel that latter point is more emphasized and what makes the Paldea League different; Champion in Paldea is just a title with the one who acts as the final boss of the League being called the "Top Champion", a position that's more a job and they seem to have it until they quit. Development wise I also feel this is GF trying to think where they can go with the Pokemon League concept after Galar (kind of hard to make a follow-up Champion after Leon, the Champion of Champions).
So, what story would Gen X think of (keeping in mind that it's Gen X, or rather Gen 10, the main series games finally hitting two digits in the number of core series titles).
Sorry, meant 2026, which now I guess is perfectly reasonable if they for ONCE took some years off to polish the game.
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Why 2028 specifically?
Maybe he means 30 years since R/B release in English? Wouldn’t really make sense tbh surely they’d go with 2026 and the original Jap games, like how the 25th anniversary was 2021.
That's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure if I'd missed something.
Do'h, yeah, I meant it to be the 30th Anniversary. Shouldn't write posts 1 in the morning before going to bed...
Do'h, yeah, I meant it to be the 30th Anniversary. Shouldn't write posts 1 in the morning before going to bed...
It's a bad habit I'm equally guilty of, dw.
I know he gets hate for being budget Hau, but honestly I liked Hop's story. Being the kid brother of the most famous Trainer in the region is hard, and putting that pressure on himself is so tough. I think what really hits home is when you realize that he's the only rival in the entire franchise (except for Blue's Raticate and we know how that goes, and N who specifically uses Pokemon he caught lying around) to drop a Pokemon from his team at any point in the story (though he brings them back later once he has his reckoning at Circhester), and they're the Pokemon that he started with in Wooloo and Corvisquire. Bede's insult hit deep and he's desperately willing to do anything to beat you and prove himself, including boxing his best friends.
I think what really drives home the point is the Max Raid battle with Eternatus. His Dubwool, for this battle specifically, has had Cotton Guard replaced with Take Down (though it will pretty much only ever use Double-Edge). He might not be the most skilled trainer, but by god he's going to have the heart of one.
I think what really drives home the point is the Max Raid battle with Eternatus. His Dubwool, for this battle specifically, has had Cotton Guard replaced with Take Down (though it will pretty much only ever use Double-Edge). He might not be the most skilled trainer, but by god he's going to have the heart of one.
I think it's kind of unfair to look at Mega Evolution in the same vein as the super mechanics that came afterwards, because while it may technically be a super mechanic from a gameplay mechanics standpoint, the design philosophy behind it is completely different from that of future super mechanics, in that it's an extremely specific and personalized transformation power-up whereas future super mechanics tried to be more general, especially Terastal which is a completely general and universal power-up transformation with absolutely no specific/special version of it assigned to any Pokemon.
Mega Evolution is more in line with say, cross gen evolutions or regional forms in that the Mega Evolution itself is functionally an entirely new and different Pokemon in its own right. It's an individualized set of stat boosts to the Pokemon who gets it and oftentimes the Pokemon changes its ability or in some cases type combination, effectively creating a functionally different Pokemon from the base form. In some cases it may very well just be the mon but stronger, but oftentimes the Mega Evolved version of a Pokemon often functions completely differently, and different Megas often occupied different niches. You had some Megas which were offensively oriented and basically hard hitters like Charizard Y, Gardevoir, and Medicham, but on the other hand you had plenty of more defensively oriented Megas like Aggron, Sableye, and Audino who were more enhanced walls/annoyers that played more on defensive utility. And then you had different Megas serving different purposes across the tiers.
In that sense it's quite different from the later super mechanics and shouldn't really be looked at in the same thought process. Megas are basically evolved forms of the mon they derive from in their own right and like any Pokemon, some are bound to be less good than others: such is the nature of individual Pokemon in general.
The only "general" mechanic thus far that has really been particularly flexible in how it can be used is Terastal since Terastal despite being on the far opposite end of Megas in that it's completely general and universal, is functionally from a gameplay standpoint an in-battle transformation like how Mega Evolution is, except it takes being a general transformation and fully commits to it, in that unlike Megas which were individual stat boosts and ability changes, Terastal is oftentimes a simple type change and/or type boost that is activated by the transformation and the mon itself is functionally the same barring the boost to type and oftentimes the change in type. That said, that aspect of Terastal is very much a part of Terastal's individuality as a mechanic and what makes Terastal, well, Terastal.
Likewise, Mega Evolution stands out on its own because its unique trait is being a specific/personalized transformation that involves unique stat boosts to individual Pokemon who get it and oftentimes a fundamental change in the Pokemon. It fully committed to being a specified mechanic for certain Pokemon only and went in on making the most of it in that regard.
Z-Moves and Dynamax were functionally as battle mechanics effective nuke buttons. While Dynamax/Gigantamax "technically" was a transformation, it was one that lasted three turns, and the whole thing was effectively boosted nuke moves that had universal secondary effects (admittedly making for a rather boringly overpowered mechanic that I have openly expressed my dislike for), or in the case of G-Max a specialized secondary effect of a G-Max Move, and Z-Moves were effectively a one-use nuke button in a battle, not an actual change in the mon.
A bit of a rant but I feel like homogenizing super mechanics to make them similar to each other basically robs them all of what makes them distinct from each other, so I don't think "redoing" Megas would be a good idea. I do feel different people would feel differently about each super mechanic depending on what they want from a super mechanic, but each mechanic inherently had a different design philosophy from the get go and not all of them were inherently intended as "super nukes". They're all functionally different from each other.
Like Mega Evolution are basically designed as honorary new Pokemon and are an in-battle transformation, Z-Moves are basically a widespread one-use nuke button, Dynamax is basically "nuke buttons that cause different battle effects for three turns", and Terastal is basically a generalized in-battle transformation that involves type change/type boost.
Mega Evolution was very much effective at what it was aiming to do, which was to be a personalized buff for specific Pokemon, and fully went in on that, being new designs that were an evolution of the base mon's design (thus having new designs to stand out to fans), being stat boosts, ability changes, and in some cases a type combo change to effectively create a fundamentally new Pokemon. But like all Pokemon, there's always going to be some that are more effective than others: that's just the nature of Megas being effectively new Pokemon in their own right, and they're subject to that same power scaling that all ordinary Pokemon are subject to, but just about all of them were improvements to the original Pokemon.
So in that sense it really isn't comparable to future mechanics which tried to be more generalized. But those future mechanics shine best because they're more generic. Terastal is a completely general transformation mechanic that is designed to be a generic transformation that any Pokemon can use, and that's its individuality and defining trait as a super mechanic. Z-Moves are a one-use nuke button, and that's all they are. Dynamax in my opinion was fundamentally flawed from its conception but it took being a "nuke button move" to the extreme, basically its entire use was nuke moves with secondary effects, either homogenized universal ones or specific secondary effects for G-Max.
Really the main thing when we see a game with Megas again (ie Kalos or Hoenn revisit) wouldn't be to "redo" them but to simply expand on their use, perhaps by just having more mons that can Mega Evolve and getting more creative with the changes and stat boosts they do to future Megas whenever they revisit it. It's not meant to be a generic power-up and shouldn't try to be generic in any way, because the future mechanics work as general mechanics since they were designed as such from the onset but Megas aren't designed as such. If I wanted a generic power-up, I would just have Terastal or Z-Moves for that since that's their job as super mechanics.
Different super mechanics are different from each other, and that's how it should be if they want to keep making different ones.
On the topic of Mega Evolution, it's not quite an unpopular opinion, but my unpopular... perspective(?) is that I never wanted my favourite Pokemon to get Mega Evolutions, even back in the heyday of the mechanic. The weaknesses of a Pokemon are part of the whole package of why I like it, so I don't really want some massive buff for them, nor do I want a lateral move that just adds item/mechanical bloat as a core part of their identity moving forward. The one-and-done nature of Megas also made me super apprehensive about the prospect: there's nothing anyone can do if you don't like the design or feel like the Mega's concept is too far from what you liked about the original. This is especially problematic if the Mega is strong enough to catapult the Pokemon into viability and/or popularity, overshadowing the original entirely.
Of course, this is true of regular evolutions too, but the design philosophy of Megas often makes them more extreme in appearance and therefore more polarising. Additionally, some of the dex entries for Megas point to an increased, unsustainable level of aggression, inconvenience, and sometimes pain brought about by the power boost. They're no longer animals with a relationship to their surrounding ecosystem, but instead something scarier and almost artificial. That's not really the vibe I'm after for my favourite Pokemon!
This was definitely part of the inspiration for my Beedrill solo XY challenge (apart from having limited options for 3DS challenges due to only having one game and system, hah). The Mega was the only thing that made it relevant and I wanted to see if I could make it work without it.
I remember back in the optimistic days of early SwSh speculation thinking about how to allocate the potential possibilities for a particular mon:
- Megas were the preferred option for most fully evolved mons, since they offered the possibility of bringing in a new concept in addition to enhancing an existing one
- Z-moves are preferred in the case of a mon with an identity-defining Status move. It doesn't even need to be technically a signature item since it can simply apply to the main move instead.
- GMax would mostly be reserved for mons with item-tied identities (which would include many NFEs due to Eviolite), possibly branching out into other mons with complete concepts and a singular effect for a damaging move (Dhelmise was my prime example for this group)
I can't imagine deciding whether to play a new game based on whether my favourite Pokemon got buffs haha, but I enjoy this idea that your favourites need to get stronger to keep your interest, if only because it buries Karen's stupid monologue for good.
Ultimately, I think there are two competing brands of cynicism at play here. Most people see it as a sign of laziness and greed if Game Freak don't keep giving their old favourites new toys to play with, whereas I just don't trust Game Freak to buff my favourites in a way that I'll actually like.
Ultimately, I think there are two competing brands of cynicism at play here. Most people see it as a sign of laziness and greed if Game Freak don't keep giving their old favourites new toys to play with, whereas I just don't trust Game Freak to buff my favourites in a way that I'll actually like.
And then there's the majority, people like me who don't care at all and play Pokemon games just cause they like pokemon, and the presence or not of their favourite does not influence if they will play the game or not, and do not think there is any lazyness on GF part, in fact there is just workplace abuse and refusal to hire more (or more competent) people
- Dexit is not a big deal.
- Attack removal is a sin however.
- Gen 2 good
- Gen 5 White 2 has one of the best postgame of All time.
-Even after 100 hours+ of White 2 I still hate most of Gen 5 Mon Designs so, SO much. Only a handful are decent.
- Gen 6 Starter Trio is one of the best of them all.
- Attack removal is a sin however.
- Gen 2 good
- Gen 5 White 2 has one of the best postgame of All time.
-Even after 100 hours+ of White 2 I still hate most of Gen 5 Mon Designs so, SO much. Only a handful are decent.
- Gen 6 Starter Trio is one of the best of them all.
I'm right there with you! Most of my favs were dexited in Gen 8 and it had zero impact on my decision to pick up Shield. Also I should have clarified that by 'most people' I meant 'most people who are heavily invested in this discourse' which naturally excludes the sensible people who don't get so worked up about all this haha.
How dare you. Karen’s speech is amazing and always will be.
1. In what way do you mean that? I would say in general Dexit is a big deal, especially for long time players, BUT there are certainly aspects of Dexit people had issue with that in a bigger picture isn't, as you said, a big deal.
2. While there are certainly Moves I would not have removed, there are also Moves I totally get them removing. However another aspect of this is them removing a Move due to the complexity of it but not then replacing it with a Move which fills the role most were using it for. Two examples that come to mind is Scald and Return.
Scald is a good example of how to replace a Move, Scald was too powerful with its Burn effect so instead essentially replaced it with Chilling Water that still did the main function Scald was so liked for (if not better): decreasing the Attack stat.
Return is a bad example as it was used as the go-to high powered Normal attack. They got rid of it as it was too gimmicky, dealing with a statistic which otherwise had nothing to do with battle, BUT they then never replaced it with a new high power Normal-type Move. Not all Pokemon get Slash, Body Slam or Strength, all which are generally weaker than Return. They needed something like a 100 Power, Physical Normal-type Move that most Pokemon get, and to balance it out just have it have like 5 PP; maybe as a callback to Return have it be a Move a Move Tutor will only teach to a Pokemon with high Friendship, therefore still requiring that stat being high in-game but still separate from battle mechanics.
4. White 2 specifically? What about Black 2? Though I would agree, while I feel the story of those games is a stepdown from the original BW, for the content those games offer they're one of the best in the franchise. Excited that Chuggaaconroy has started his LP of it!
5. Mind if I ask two things for this point?
One, what exactly about the designs of the Pokemon don't you like, point out a few examples if you don't mind (and why those aren't a problem on the ones you find decent)?
Two, you have not experienced this same feeling for other generations? Mind you, Gen V is the gen that had the most Pokemon introduced, Gens II through IV usually only brought in around a 100 new Pokemon, and Gens VI+ kept under 100 new species (not counting new forms). To put into perspective, if you disliked at least half of the Pokemon from Gen V and Gen VII, for Gen V that's about 75 Pokemon and for Gen VI that's about 35; this is because Gen VI only had 71 new species of Pokemon, meaning the amount of Pokemon you don't like from Gen V equals the amount of Pokemon that's been generally introduced each gen after V (and in comparison those gens are going to have a lower amount of Pokemon you don't like which could give the illusion you hate Gen V's design more when infact it's still a 50/50 split).
6. They're fine. I'll say this, while they sort of started the tradition of the Starters final form resembling a human archetype, I feel they did it the "best" with the middle evos giving a clear indication where the evolution line was going as well as the final form both fitting in with the region but also having a sort of naturalistic aspect.
"I love Dark-type Pokémon because they're so strong. Also, only selfish people think of Pokémon as strong or weak".
Karen is awful.
You're telling me the woman who wouldn't use a Sneasel until it evolved despite being a Johto Dark specialist is full of shit?
It didn't affect mine either in that I had no interest in picking up Gen 8 anyway
.Real talk though, I don't mind the absence of my favorites from a base game for one Gen if the game makes efforts to either improve or introduce equally fun Pokemon to use. Gen 9 for example finally addressed my biggest issues with things like Shroomish or early-game Electrics by having them appear as Tera Raids/Encounters in the low level dens, fixing availability and movesets (in Shroomish's case being late-Spore evolution) for the early game while cutting out too much randomization in hunting for them. I don't need the same good mons every gen, just give me something as fun to go through the game with. Also 2 Gens of absence in a row would be when they start pushing things for me, though there is a fairly small roster of mons where that is the case as of now so I'll let it pass until Gen 10.
I don't think its fair to lay this strictly on Megas. The forms were introduced in Gen 6 and clearly not regarded the way Gen 7's Dex entries would have you believe, mostly viewed as awe-inspiring transformations borne out of bonds with trainers or an Apex form in the case of Mega Rayquaza (who conveniently does NOT have an Alola Dex entry like the others hmm suspicious). This is honestly something I resent Gen 7 for, applying its already at-times-edgy Pokedex entries to an entire mechanic retroactively that directly contradicts the prior depiction, seemingly just to get some cheap "ZOMG Kids game is dark" talk out of the fanbase (that evidently worked). A particularly cynical part of me would think it was a Dex writer spiting the designer who said they had to throw Megas in at the last minute, or it feels like someone on the team saying "don't use those horrible old Megas, just stick to the new Cool Dance Power moves, the Pokemon like that better see?"
I also find the perspective on "overshadowing" in viability/popularity overblown, because most Mega receivers were either already popular designs that were never going to go away, or they were mons who, while they had favorites of course, were borderline non-existent in terms of merchandise or fan presence until a Mega brought them attention. In terms of merch a lot of mons like Mawile or Sableye didn't exactly have much presence before their Megas got them into the club, and if we're talking viability, no one in VGC or Singles gave half a hoot about Charizard until the Megas, so it was less "overshadowed" and more "worth acknowledging in the first place" under that particular criteria. So it's not like you went from "Some Mawile Merch to all Mega and no Base", the base form didn't really have much attention or discussion on it to be overshadowed in the first place without Mega Coattails to ride.
This concern would require a moderately-popular base form that was then replaced by an Uber Popular Mega, the only cases for arguing that I can picture being Kangaskhan (who by design is the least fundamentally changed look), Pinsir, maybe Altaria and the Hoenn starters.