Unpopular opinions

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
  1. Dexit is not a big deal.
  2. Attack removal is a sin however.
  3. Gen 2 good
  4. Gen 5 White 2 has one of the best postgame of All time.
  5. Even after 100 hours+ of White 2 I still hate most of Gen 5 Mon Designs so, SO much. Only a handful are decent.
  6. Gen 6 Starter Trio is one of the best of them all.
1. In what way do you mean that? I would say in general Dexit is a big deal, especially for long time players, BUT there are certainly aspects of Dexit people had issue with that in a bigger picture isn't, as you said, a big deal.

2. While there are certainly Moves I would not have removed, there are also Moves I totally get them removing. However another aspect of this is them removing a Move due to the complexity of it but not then replacing it with a Move which fills the role most were using it for. Two examples that come to mind is Scald and Return.
Scald is a good example of how to replace a Move, Scald was too powerful with its Burn effect so instead essentially replaced it with Chilling Water that still did the main function Scald was so liked for (if not better): decreasing the Attack stat.
Return is a bad example as it was used as the go-to high powered Normal attack. They got rid of it as it was too gimmicky, dealing with a statistic which otherwise had nothing to do with battle, BUT they then never replaced it with a new high power Normal-type Move. Not all Pokemon get Slash, Body Slam or Strength, all which are generally weaker than Return. They needed something like a 100 Power, Physical Normal-type Move that most Pokemon get, and to balance it out just have it have like 5 PP; maybe as a callback to Return have it be a Move a Move Tutor will only teach to a Pokemon with high Friendship, therefore still requiring that stat being high in-game but still separate from battle mechanics.

4. White 2 specifically? What about Black 2? Though I would agree, while I feel the story of those games is a stepdown from the original BW, for the content those games offer they're one of the best in the franchise. Excited that Chuggaaconroy has started his LP of it!

5. Mind if I ask two things for this point?
One, what exactly about the designs of the Pokemon don't you like, point out a few examples if you don't mind (and why those aren't a problem on the ones you find decent)?
Two, you have not experienced this same feeling for other generations? Mind you, Gen V is the gen that had the most Pokemon introduced, Gens II through IV usually only brought in around a 100 new Pokemon, and Gens VI+ kept under 100 new species (not counting new forms). To put into perspective, if you disliked at least half of the Pokemon from Gen V and Gen VII, for Gen V that's about 75 Pokemon and for Gen VI that's about 35; this is because Gen VI only had 71 new species of Pokemon, meaning the amount of Pokemon you don't like from Gen V equals the amount of Pokemon that's been generally introduced each gen after V (and in comparison those gens are going to have a lower amount of Pokemon you don't like which could give the illusion you hate Gen V's design more when infact it's still a 50/50 split).

6. They're fine. I'll say this, while they sort of started the tradition of the Starters final form resembling a human archetype, I feel they did it the "best" with the middle evos giving a clear indication where the evolution line was going as well as the final form both fitting in with the region but also having a sort of naturalistic aspect.
 
I'm right there with you! Most of my favs were dexited in Gen 8 and it had zero impact on my decision to pick up Shield. Also I should have clarified that by 'most people' I meant 'most people who are heavily invested in this discourse' which naturally excludes the sensible people who don't get so worked up about all this haha.
It didn't affect mine either in that I had no interest in picking up Gen 8 anyway :totodiLUL:.

Real talk though, I don't mind the absence of my favorites from a base game for one Gen if the game makes efforts to either improve or introduce equally fun Pokemon to use. Gen 9 for example finally addressed my biggest issues with things like Shroomish or early-game Electrics by having them appear as Tera Raids/Encounters in the low level dens, fixing availability and movesets (in Shroomish's case being late-Spore evolution) for the early game while cutting out too much randomization in hunting for them. I don't need the same good mons every gen, just give me something as fun to go through the game with. Also 2 Gens of absence in a row would be when they start pushing things for me, though there is a fairly small roster of mons where that is the case as of now so I'll let it pass until Gen 10.

what do we think the average word count on a ScraftyIsTheBest post is

On the topic of Mega Evolution, it's not quite an unpopular opinion, but my unpopular... perspective(?) is that I never wanted my favourite Pokemon to get Mega Evolutions, even back in the heyday of the mechanic. The weaknesses of a Pokemon are part of the whole package of why I like it, so I don't really want some massive buff for them, nor do I want a lateral move that just adds item/mechanical bloat as a core part of their identity moving forward. The one-and-done nature of Megas also made me super apprehensive about the prospect: there's nothing anyone can do if you don't like the design or feel like the Mega's concept is too far from what you liked about the original. This is especially problematic if the Mega is strong enough to catapult the Pokemon into viability and/or popularity, overshadowing the original entirely.

Of course, this is true of regular evolutions too, but the design philosophy of Megas often makes them more extreme in appearance and therefore more polarising. Additionally, some of the dex entries for Megas point to an increased, unsustainable level of aggression, inconvenience, and sometimes pain brought about by the power boost. They're no longer animals with a relationship to their surrounding ecosystem, but instead something scarier and almost artificial. That's not really the vibe I'm after for my favourite Pokemon!
I don't think its fair to lay this strictly on Megas. The forms were introduced in Gen 6 and clearly not regarded the way Gen 7's Dex entries would have you believe, mostly viewed as awe-inspiring transformations borne out of bonds with trainers or an Apex form in the case of Mega Rayquaza (who conveniently does NOT have an Alola Dex entry like the others hmm suspicious). This is honestly something I resent Gen 7 for, applying its already at-times-edgy Pokedex entries to an entire mechanic retroactively that directly contradicts the prior depiction, seemingly just to get some cheap "ZOMG Kids game is dark" talk out of the fanbase (that evidently worked). A particularly cynical part of me would think it was a Dex writer spiting the designer who said they had to throw Megas in at the last minute, or it feels like someone on the team saying "don't use those horrible old Megas, just stick to the new Cool Dance Power moves, the Pokemon like that better see?"

I also find the perspective on "overshadowing" in viability/popularity overblown, because most Mega receivers were either already popular designs that were never going to go away, or they were mons who, while they had favorites of course, were borderline non-existent in terms of merchandise or fan presence until a Mega brought them attention. In terms of merch a lot of mons like Mawile or Sableye didn't exactly have much presence before their Megas got them into the club, and if we're talking viability, no one in VGC or Singles gave half a hoot about Charizard until the Megas, so it was less "overshadowed" and more "worth acknowledging in the first place" under that particular criteria. So it's not like you went from "Some Mawile Merch to all Mega and no Base", the base form didn't really have much attention or discussion on it to be overshadowed in the first place without Mega Coattails to ride.

This concern would require a moderately-popular base form that was then replaced by an Uber Popular Mega, the only cases for arguing that I can picture being Kangaskhan (who by design is the least fundamentally changed look), Pinsir, maybe Altaria and the Hoenn starters.
 
Also 2 Gens of absence in a row would be when they start pushing things for me, though there is a fairly small roster of mons where that is the case as of now so I'll let it pass until Gen 10.
I agree to this but only to some degree.

In the current state, yes I'd be a tiny bit annoyed if by the end of gen 9 we don't have the entire pokedex available in a Switch game.
However, with the dex continuing to expand and not looking like ending, assuming the current scenario is kept (thus without considering legendaries, only between half and 2/3rds of the available pokemon are actually available in a given gen), it may eventually come to a point where even having 700 mons per gen wouldn't cut it because 700 wouldn't even be half of the pokemon available, and certain mons may skip 2 gens in a row.

(That said you know my generic unpopular opinion about Dexit, which is, portability shouldn't have ever been a thing in first place and introducing portability in gen 4 was a shortsighted mistake)
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
"I love Dark-type Pokémon because they're so strong. Also, only selfish people think of Pokémon as strong or weak".
She's a Dark-type Specialist, is it surprising she's a hypocrite?

You're telling me the woman who wouldn't use a Sneasel until it evolved despite being a Johto Dark specialist is full of shit?
Well obviously she likes Weavile but doesn't like Sneasel.
 
I also find the perspective on "overshadowing" in viability/popularity overblown, because most Mega receivers were either already popular designs that were never going to go away, or they were mons who, while they had favorites of course, were borderline non-existent in terms of merchandise or fan presence until a Mega brought them attention. In terms of merch a lot of mons like Mawile or Sableye didn't exactly have much presence before their Megas got them into the club, and if we're talking viability, no one in VGC or Singles gave half a hoot about Charizard until the Megas, so it was less "overshadowed" and more "worth acknowledging in the first place" under that particular criteria. So it's not like you went from "Some Mawile Merch to all Mega and no Base", the base form didn't really have much attention or discussion on it to be overshadowed in the first place without Mega Coattails to ride.
I mean, I don't mind if my favourite Pokemon have next to no fan presence or merchandise. Like it's not going to fill me with pride to see my special little guy finally being appreciated by the fanbase. My ability to enjoy my favourites is completely independent of anyone else's opinion on them (except when I like a design partially because it's funny how much other people hate it)

I'm not going to pretend any of this is a real problem, but my point was simply that sudden Mega-induced popularity for your favourite mon is slightly annoying if you don't really like the Mega, in the same way that it's slightly annoying when your favourite artist releases an album you don't really like that catapults them from a successful-but-under-the-radar career into mainstream popularity. There's this inextricable popular association between the thing you love and this thing you don't particularly care for.
 
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ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I'm not going to pretend any of this is a real problem, but my point was simply that sudden Mega-induced popularity for your favourite mon is slightly annoying if you don't really like the Mega, in the same way that it's slightly annoying when your favourite artist releases an album you don't really like that catapults them from a successful-but-under-the-radar career into mainstream popularity. There's this inextricable popular association between the thing you love and this thing you don't particularly care for.
I think that's just kind of the thing that comes with adding onto things that already exist. Even before Megas we had this happen a lot with the traditional cross-gen evolutions.

While from a battling standpoint even back then new evolutions were an upgrade to an already existing Pokemon to make them stronger, at the same time from a design standpoint many of them were divisive among fans over the years. Like Rhyperior for instance was quite heavily divisive as a design among fans ever since it existed, being added onto the rather popular Rhyhorn line. Many people like Rhydon but a lot of people who liked Rhydon weren't so warm to Rhyperior, feeling there was a dissonance between it and Rhydon or that Rhyperior's design lost a lot of what made Rhydon's design great to them. Many of the Gen 4 ones for instance were pretty divisive among many fans, particularly the likes of Magmortar, Probopass, Lickilicky, and whatnot. I know Magmortar is kinda not very warmly received in particular.

You had some who were pretty well received from a design standpoint like Electivire and Weavile, while others...really didn't totally take off. Not because they were inherently bad per se, but because they were adding onto something that already existed and in many cases, many people liked them, so some fans were not happy with seeing a design that rubbed them the wrong way being attached as an evolved form of a Pokemon that they really liked over the years.

Even now with them doing some cross-gen evolutions every now and then in recent games (and even with regional forms) this kind of stuff happens. Kingambit for instance is a strong evolution of Bisharp and is an incredibly strong Pokemon, but I know quite a few people who have said that they weren't satisfied with how Kingambit turned out or some people who felt that it wasn't really necessary (I myself like Kingambit even if it's attached to Bisharp who has been a long time favorite of mine). I know a lot of people who were dissatisfied with Dudunsparce as an evolution to Dunsparce. Meanwhile regional forms have always been a YMMV due to being associated with mons that already exist.

There's always a bit of a your mileage may vary in that regard when you add something to a thing that already existed. On one hand these things can improve a mon that needs it from a gameplay standpoint, but from a design standpoint many people may or may not take well to seeing these additions to something that already existed that they like, especially if it rubs them the wrong way relative to the original thing.
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
I think that's just kind of the thing that comes with adding onto things that already exist. Even before Megas we had this happen a lot with the traditional cross-gen evolutions.

While from a battling standpoint even back then new evolutions were an upgrade to an already existing Pokemon to make them stronger, at the same time from a design standpoint many of them were divisive among fans over the years. Like Rhyperior for instance was quite heavily divisive as a design among fans ever since it existed, being added onto the rather popular Rhyhorn line. Many people like Rhydon but a lot of people who liked Rhydon weren't so warm to Rhyperior, feeling there was a dissonance between it and Rhydon or that Rhyperior's design lost a lot of what made Rhydon's design great to them. Many of the Gen 4 ones for instance were pretty divisive among many fans, particularly the likes of Magmortar, Probopass, Lickilicky, and whatnot. I know Magmortar is kinda not very warmly received in particular.

You had some who were pretty well received from a design standpoint like Electivire and Weavile, while others...really didn't totally take off. Not because they were inherently bad per se, but because they were adding onto something that already existed and in many cases, many people liked them, so some fans were not happy with seeing a design that rubbed them the wrong way being attached as an evolved form of a Pokemon that they really liked over the years.

Even now with them doing some cross-gen evolutions every now and then in recent games (and even with regional forms) this kind of stuff happens. Kingambit for instance is a strong evolution of Bisharp and is an incredibly strong Pokemon, but I know quite a few people who have said that they weren't satisfied with how Kingambit turned out or some people who felt that it wasn't really necessary (I myself like Kingambit even if it's attached to Bisharp who has been a long time favorite of mine). I know a lot of people who were dissatisfied with Dudunsparce as an evolution to Dunsparce. Meanwhile regional forms have always been a YMMV due to being associated with mons that already exist.

There's always a bit of a your mileage may vary in that regard when you add something to a thing that already existed. On one hand these things can improve a mon that needs it from a gameplay standpoint, but from a design standpoint many people may or may not take well to seeing these additions to something that already existed that they like, especially if it rubs them the wrong way relative to the original thing.
Truth be told, the reason many people didn’t like their designs are mostly due to nostalgia bias, and the massive fanabse means an ever clashing “don’t fix what’s not broken” or “I want something new” mentalities doesn’t help their case, making the fanbase come off as ungrateful. While I can see where people are coming from with Rhyperior and Magmortar and the likes, I fail to see why some people call the likes of Dusknoir (it have faults battle-wise, even still), Kingambit and Magnezone mediocre or garbage if they don’t provide a reason other than “it’s ugly” or “boring”.

It’s not a problem exclusive to cross-gen evos, as it also happens to Baby Pokémon, Ultra Beasts, and Paradox Pokémon. Even Legendary Pokémon and Mythical Pokémon came into fire since the mid 2000s.
 
I mean, I don't mind if my favourite Pokemon have next to no fan presence or merchandise. Like it's not going to fill me with pride to see my special little guy finally being appreciated by the fanbase. My ability to enjoy my favourites is completely independent of anyone else's opinion on them (except when I like a design partially because it's funny how much other people hate it)

I'm not going to pretend any of this is a real problem, but my point was simply that sudden Mega-induced popularity for your favourite mon is slightly annoying if you don't really like the Mega, in the same way that it's slightly annoying when your favourite artist releases an album you don't really like that catapults them from a successful-but-under-the-radar career into mainstream popularity. There's this inextricable popular association between the thing you love and this thing you don't particularly care for.
More or less agree. I suppose it's an unpopular opinion that I couldn't care less whether my favorite Pokemon Infernape received a Mega evolution. I think it's perfect the way it is.

The only reason I even slightly care is due to the rivalry within the fanbase with respect to Sinnoh and Hoenn's starter trios for the title of best/most popular in the franchise. Sometimes Hoenn fans will bring up their starters having Mega evolutions as a reason to rank them above Sinnoh's, which can be mildly annoying. But in a vacuum I really couldn't care less whether Sinnoh's starters have or don't have Mega evolutions. I think they're close to perfect just the way they are.
 

Coronis

Impressively round
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I think that's just kind of the thing that comes with adding onto things that already exist. Even before Megas we had this happen a lot with the traditional cross-gen evolutions.

While from a battling standpoint even back then new evolutions were an upgrade to an already existing Pokemon to make them stronger, at the same time from a design standpoint many of them were divisive among fans over the years. Like Rhyperior for instance was quite heavily divisive as a design among fans ever since it existed, being added onto the rather popular Rhyhorn line. Many people like Rhydon but a lot of people who liked Rhydon weren't so warm to Rhyperior, feeling there was a dissonance between it and Rhydon or that Rhyperior's design lost a lot of what made Rhydon's design great to them. Many of the Gen 4 ones for instance were pretty divisive among many fans, particularly the likes of Magmortar, Probopass, Lickilicky, and whatnot. I know Magmortar is kinda not very warmly received in particular.

You had some who were pretty well received from a design standpoint like Electivire and Weavile, while others...really didn't totally take off. Not because they were inherently bad per se, but because they were adding onto something that already existed and in many cases, many people liked them, so some fans were not happy with seeing a design that rubbed them the wrong way being attached as an evolved form of a Pokemon that they really liked over the years.

Even now with them doing some cross-gen evolutions every now and then in recent games (and even with regional forms) this kind of stuff happens. Kingambit for instance is a strong evolution of Bisharp and is an incredibly strong Pokemon, but I know quite a few people who have said that they weren't satisfied with how Kingambit turned out or some people who felt that it wasn't really necessary (I myself like Kingambit even if it's attached to Bisharp who has been a long time favorite of mine). I know a lot of people who were dissatisfied with Dudunsparce as an evolution to Dunsparce. Meanwhile regional forms have always been a YMMV due to being associated with mons that already exist.

There's always a bit of a your mileage may vary in that regard when you add something to a thing that already existed. On one hand these things can improve a mon that needs it from a gameplay standpoint, but from a design standpoint many people may or may not take well to seeing these additions to something that already existed that they like, especially if it rubs them the wrong way relative to the original thing.
WHO DOESNT LIKE DUDUNSPARCE?! SHOW ME, THEY MUST SUFFER
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
"I love Dark-type Pokémon because they're so strong. Also, only selfish people think of Pokémon as strong or weak".

Karen is awful.
Slightly tangential, but this makes me think me of the quiz in Dragon's Den.

QuestionCorrect answer(s)Wrong answer(s)
What are Pokémon to you?PalC / AllyHGSS
Friend
UnderlingC / JuniorHGSS
What helps you to win battles?Strategy
RaisingC / TrainingHGSS
Cheating
What kind of Trainer do you wish to battle?AnybodyC / AnyoneHGSSTough personC / StrongHGSS
Weak personC / WeakHGSS
What is most important for raising Pokémon?Love
Knowledge
Violence
Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. Which is more important?BothToughC / StrengthHGSS
WeakC / WeaknessHGSS

Considering that the answers are pretty self-evident it's quite funny that Clair states she hasn't been confirmed; I like to imagine that she's taken the quiz every week for years and years and still hasn't grasped the correct answers because she's just that boneheaded and stubborn. We obviously don't know what answers she gave to the quiz but given the way she's characterised it seems like she'd struggle with #3 and #5 in particular:

1682416848358.png
 
Slightly tangential, but this makes me think me of the quiz in Dragon's Den.

QuestionCorrect answer(s)Wrong answer(s)
What are Pokémon to you?PalC / AllyHGSS
Friend
UnderlingC / JuniorHGSS
What helps you to win battles?Strategy
RaisingC / TrainingHGSS
Cheating
What kind of Trainer do you wish to battle?AnybodyC / AnyoneHGSSTough personC / StrongHGSS
Weak personC / WeakHGSS
What is most important for raising Pokémon?Love
Knowledge
Violence
Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. Which is more important?BothToughC / StrengthHGSS
WeakC / WeaknessHGSS

Considering that the answers are pretty self-evident it's quite funny that Clair states she hasn't been confirmed; I like to imagine that she's taken the quiz every week for years and years and still hasn't grasped the correct answers because she's just that boneheaded and stubborn. We obviously don't know what answers she gave to the quiz but given the way she's characterised it seems like she'd struggle with #3 and #5 in particular:

View attachment 511538
Question 3 there bugs me. No, I don't want to fight weak trainers, I'm not Nemona. Let them get better first so it's a fair fight, neither of us gets anything out of me stomping them.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Question 3 there bugs me. No, I don't want to fight weak trainers, I'm not Nemona. Let them get better first so it's a fair fight, neither of us gets anything out of me stomping them.
The counterargument against that is that by battling a weak trainer you're doing them a favour, because it's a learning experience for them and you can show them how to get better. That's how the games usually frame it, anyway. One could also posit that it's an exercise in moderation for you, the tougher trainer, if you're intentionally easing up and giving them a chance to win rather than just steamrollering over them but really it's more for the less capable person's benefit. In Clair's case specifically, she's a gym leader and a clan chieftain who has a responsibility (and practical interest) in ensuring that her students and underlings are capable battlers; it doesn't really speak highly of her leadership skills or her clan's reputation if everyone but her is pathetically weak. We see that other gyms do also encourage their trainers to keep improving; there's a Lass in Whitney's gym who mentions that she's tried repeatedly to defeat her.

If you follow the line of thinking that gym leaders scale their teams for each individual trainer, then it's literally in their job description to accept a challenge from anyone (we'll ignore Norman saying "there's no challenge for me to fight a greenhorn trainer" but I think that's less about him outright refusing to fight a weak trainer and more about him specifically wanting you, his child, to grow).

There's also the attitude the game implies your answer gives - by saying "I only want to battle tough people" you're suggesting that only they are worthy of your time, whereas saying "I only want to battle weak people" implies you just want to dominate everyone with minimal effort. By saying "anyone" you're expressing that you're a fair person who'll give everyone your time and consideration, and are willing to be friends with anyone. It's a decent moral, as they go.
 
Slightly tangential, but this makes me think me of the quiz in Dragon's Den.

QuestionCorrect answer(s)Wrong answer(s)
What are Pokémon to you?PalC / AllyHGSS
Friend
UnderlingC / JuniorHGSS
What helps you to win battles?Strategy
RaisingC / TrainingHGSS
Cheating
What kind of Trainer do you wish to battle?AnybodyC / AnyoneHGSSTough personC / StrongHGSS
Weak personC / WeakHGSS
What is most important for raising Pokémon?Love
Knowledge
Violence
Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. Which is more important?BothToughC / StrengthHGSS
WeakC / WeaknessHGSS

Considering that the answers are pretty self-evident it's quite funny that Clair states she hasn't been confirmed; I like to imagine that she's taken the quiz every week for years and years and still hasn't grasped the correct answers because she's just that boneheaded and stubborn. We obviously don't know what answers she gave to the quiz but given the way she's characterised it seems like she'd struggle with #3 and #5 in particular:

View attachment 511538
I'd also say that I'm not a huge fan of the wording change to question 1 in HGSS. While 'underling' has clear ideas of superiority, 'junior' feels like it might brush up too close to a teaching context. It's called a Trainer after all, and there's going to be some amount of EVs and TM usage before a mon you just met in the grass reaches full potential.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
I'd also say that I'm not a huge fan of the wording change to question 1 in HGSS. While 'underling' has clear ideas of superiority, 'junior' feels like it might brush up too close to a teaching context. It's called a Trainer after all, and there's going to be some amount of EVs and TM usage before a mon you just met in the grass reaches full potential.
Yeah that's a weird one. "Junior" has always felt vaguely affectionate to me so doesn't instantly signal the contempt or detachment that "underling" does. Though I think that changing "raising" to "training" feels more sensible.

HGSS makes some other weird scripting choices, I've always thought the English localisation was a bit... iffy, to put it mildly.
 
Question 3 there bugs me. No, I don't want to fight weak trainers, I'm not Nemona. Let them get better first so it's a fair fight, neither of us gets anything out of me stomping them.
The counterargument against that is that by battling a weak trainer you're doing them a favour, because it's a learning experience for them and you can show them how to get better. That's how the games usually frame it, anyway. One could also posit that it's an exercise in moderation for you, the tougher trainer, if you're intentionally easing up and giving them a chance to win rather than just steamrollering over them but really it's more for the less capable person's benefit.
Given Nemona was brought up, isn't this literally what her goal as your rival is? She brings up training a new team specifically to pace herself alongside you until you become a Champion that she can challenge on equal terms.

I think as far as that question goes, the idea is that if you only want to fight Strong Trainers, you look like early DP Paul saying "you're worthless and not worth my time" to people like Ash, while only challenging Weak Trainers makes you look like a coward who wants to win more than self-improve.

I think that's just kind of the thing that comes with adding onto things that already exist. Even before Megas we had this happen a lot with the traditional cross-gen evolutions.

While from a battling standpoint even back then new evolutions were an upgrade to an already existing Pokemon to make them stronger, at the same time from a design standpoint many of them were divisive among fans over the years. Like Rhyperior for instance was quite heavily divisive as a design among fans ever since it existed, being added onto the rather popular Rhyhorn line. Many people like Rhydon but a lot of people who liked Rhydon weren't so warm to Rhyperior, feeling there was a dissonance between it and Rhydon or that Rhyperior's design lost a lot of what made Rhydon's design great to them. Many of the Gen 4 ones for instance were pretty divisive among many fans, particularly the likes of Magmortar, Probopass, Lickilicky, and whatnot. I know Magmortar is kinda not very warmly received in particular.

You had some who were pretty well received from a design standpoint like Electivire and Weavile, while others...really didn't totally take off. Not because they were inherently bad per se, but because they were adding onto something that already existed and in many cases, many people liked them, so some fans were not happy with seeing a design that rubbed them the wrong way being attached as an evolved form of a Pokemon that they really liked over the years.

Even now with them doing some cross-gen evolutions every now and then in recent games (and even with regional forms) this kind of stuff happens. Kingambit for instance is a strong evolution of Bisharp and is an incredibly strong Pokemon, but I know quite a few people who have said that they weren't satisfied with how Kingambit turned out or some people who felt that it wasn't really necessary (I myself like Kingambit even if it's attached to Bisharp who has been a long time favorite of mine). I know a lot of people who were dissatisfied with Dudunsparce as an evolution to Dunsparce. Meanwhile regional forms have always been a YMMV due to being associated with mons that already exist.

There's always a bit of a your mileage may vary in that regard when you add something to a thing that already existed. On one hand these things can improve a mon that needs it from a gameplay standpoint, but from a design standpoint many people may or may not take well to seeing these additions to something that already existed that they like, especially if it rubs them the wrong way relative to the original thing.
I think this is particularly contentious with Megas and Evolutions because they serve as progress/a cap for the Pokemon in at least that original incarnation, compared to split evolutions like Gallade or Regional forms being variations that co-exist with them. So while I disagree with several cases, I get why someone would dislike something like a Mega Audino or Bisharp evolving to Kingambit because it suggests that many general buffs/QoL improvements like Signature moves, stat tweaks, etc. will be focused on that form instead of the one they prefer to play as, which you could kind of see with something like Blastoise only getting the much-appreciated Shell Smash after its Mega form got Dexited (since Mega Launcher would make its Coverage way stronger as a Sweeper like that).

Dudunsparce I want to note feels like a case of a joke most people get, but your reception depends on how funny you found it. Dunsparce has always felt like a mon where the joke is, good or not, it's deliberately boring and simple, so the Evolution being extremely basic feels like a progression of that. The thing there is that the joke is based on how the franchise regards or acts with Dunsparce moreso than being directly apparent in its design for a simple evo like, say, Tandemaus/Maushold.
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
Given Nemona was brought up, isn't this literally what her goal as your rival is? She brings up training a new team specifically to pace herself alongside you until you become a Champion that she can challenge on equal terms.

I think as far as that question goes, the idea is that if you only want to fight Strong Trainers, you look like early DP Paul saying "you're worthless and not worth my time" to people like Ash, while only challenging Weak Trainers makes you look like a coward who wants to win more than self-improve.


I think this is particularly contentious with Megas and Evolutions because they serve as progress/a cap for the Pokemon in at least that original incarnation, compared to split evolutions like Gallade or Regional forms being variations that co-exist with them. So while I disagree with several cases, I get why someone would dislike something like a Mega Audino or Bisharp evolving to Kingambit because it suggests that many general buffs/QoL improvements like Signature moves, stat tweaks, etc. will be focused on that form instead of the one they prefer to play as, which you could kind of see with something like Blastoise only getting the much-appreciated Shell Smash after its Mega form got Dexited (since Mega Launcher would make its Coverage way stronger as a Sweeper like that).

Dudunsparce I want to note feels like a case of a joke most people get, but your reception depends on how funny you found it. Dunsparce has always felt like a mon where the joke is, good or not, it's deliberately boring and simple, so the Evolution being extremely basic feels like a progression of that. The thing there is that the joke is based on how the franchise regards or acts with Dunsparce moreso than being directly apparent in its design for a simple evo like, say, Tandemaus/Maushold.
Both buffing the Pokémon and giving it’s higher-power-level state like an evolution or Mega Evolution would be a great compromise, though it has to be handled carefully.

I also want to add that buffing a Pokémon with weak BST when they are not supposed to be powerful to begin with isn’t going to respect the lore. It will be hard to take seriously a Luvdisc having the same BST of a Torkoal since Luvdisc isn’t supposed to be even a decent battling Pokémon to begin with. In this case, unless they already reached the third stage of their evolutionary line, I’m all for giving them an evolution.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Late to the Karen party, but I think the intent is she's making a jab at Silver specifically for being a shitheel the entire game. He's been on the same journey as you and it's entirely possible they met. Curious as to what the Japanese script is like there.

Alternatively, since she only makes her famous quip after losing, she's just being salty.
 
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Castersvarog

formerly Maronmario
Dudunsparce I want to note feels like a case of a joke most people get, but your reception depends on how funny you found it. Dunsparce has always felt like a mon where the joke is, good or not, it's deliberately boring and simple, so the Evolution being extremely basic feels like a progression of that. The thing there is that the joke is based on how the franchise regards or acts with Dunsparce moreso than being directly apparent in its design for a simple evo like, say, Tandemaus/Maushold.
Personally, I love that they gave it an evolution, it desperately needed one, but I feel like they should have done something more then just going ‘Here’s Dunsparce but we copy-pasted the body one or two times more.’ They wouldn’t even have to do much I feel, just make the segments into a proper snake body instead of something that’ll get me suspended if I say it, give it bigger wings, and there you go. Would have still be simple sure but it at least would have looked a little neater.
 
Dunsparce was perfect just the way it was and did not need an evolution, but Dudunsparce was the best thing that could have come from a Dunsparce evolution. Fuck trying to "fix" Dunsparce's humble appearance, just have the evolution be two Dunsparces clipping into each other.
With the bonus special form of THREE !

Honestly, the whole Dudunsparce is just a genius move.
It's just "more Dunsparce". Perfection.
 
I would love to see Showdown on the Switch that utilizes your Pokémon in Home and items on your save files. Don’t know how it would work without getting independent game journalists angry.
 

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