Unpopular opinions

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
K so I'm also late to the Karen party because I diverted to a different topic but fuck it: I never really read her as a hypocrite and I think that to do so is kind of a wild reach.

From the context of what she says, it's clear that she's talking about "strong" and "weak" as objective qualities; i.e. what the vast majority of people consider strong or weak. It's a call not to follow the crowd, and that's how I've seen most people interpret it over the years. And she's praising you for beating her so the unspoken implication is that you live up to her ideal: "Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites".

It may well be a jab at Silver, who throughout his arc seems to prioritise catching Pokemon he already considers strong. But it works more broadly as a general statement.

Her saying that Dark types are strong is fine because they're her favourites (leaving aside the fact that she only uses three - you can argue game balance, but there's a lore reason that works alongside her lack of a Tyranitar: perhaps it's simply not her favourite. Personally, I've always liked that she uses Vileplume, I think it's an underused Pokemon in general). To provide an analogy, if I were to state that a particular man/woman is attractive, most well-adjusted people wouldn't take that as me authoritatively stating that "everyone finds this woman/man beautiful". It's me announcing my preference, and trusting that whoever I say it to is secure enough not to start arguing with me (yes, some people will insist that beauty is objective but they're morons and safely ignored).
 
Are we aware of Nintendo’s recent shenanigans?
You mean the part where they got a certain mr Bowser to pay 30% of his earnings to them for the rest of his life?

:wo:

Nintendo will *not* let people use their stuff, let alone Pokemon. Whatever deals they may have with Showdown, if any, these aren't public knowledge but they've not allowed anyone that isn't GameFreaks or directly linked to GameFreaks (aka, ILCA) to connect in any way to their games since gamecube era, to the point that the even virtual console version of Stadium cannot connect to Home.
 
to the point that the even virtual console version of Stadium cannot connect to Home.
I think the idea that Stadium would be able to connect to home is an unrealistic and dumb wish-fufillment idea. The first two gens work so different internally from Gen III onwards that the "transfer" from the virtual console games to Bank is less of an actual transfer and more of it creating as close to a duplicate as possible using later gen mechanics while simultaneously deleting the original version of that Pokemon. The idea of converting Pokemon from Home into ones that could function in either stadium game is just not possible without wasting a lot of time and resources, especially due to how different DVs and Stat Experience are to IVs and EVs, not to mention stuff like moves from later gens and other such things.

The only way I could ever see any sort of external connectivity is if they added the Gameboy Pokemon titles for the Switch Online service.
 
K so I'm also late to the Karen party because I diverted to a different topic but fuck it: I never really read her as a hypocrite and I think that to do so is kind of a wild reach.

From the context of what she says, it's clear that she's talking about "strong" and "weak" as objective qualities; i.e. what the vast majority of people consider strong or weak.
She refers to Dark type Pokémon being strong as part of why she loves them, and the rest of her intro dialogue reads as pretty arrogant. Like seriously.

"I am Karen of the ELITE FOUR. You're (player name)? How amusing. I love dark-type Pokemon. I find their wild, tough image to be so appealing. And they're so strong. Think you can take them? Just try to entertain me. Let's go."

She's just oozing pride and arrogance in the strength of her Dark type Pokémon. Her line after defeat doesn't sound anything like the same person. Her liking Dark type Pokémon doesn't make it okay to take this haughty attitude about how strong they are.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
She refers to Dark type Pokémon being strong as part of why she loves them, and the rest of her intro dialogue reads as pretty arrogant. Like seriously.

"I am Karen of the ELITE FOUR. You're (player name)? How amusing. I love dark-type Pokemon. I find their wild, tough image to be so appealing. And they're so strong. Think you can take them? Just try to entertain me. Let's go."

She's just oozing pride and arrogance in the strength of her Dark type Pokémon. Her line after defeat doesn't sound anything like the same person. Her liking Dark type Pokémon doesn't make it okay to take this haughty attitude about how strong they are.
That's something all Elite Four and Gym Leaders do, though. Boasting about your power in an attempt to intimidate your foe has been an accepted part of human conflict for... well, for pretty much all of human history actually, but there's countless examples in GSC alone of other bosses doing it (emphasis my own).

"WAHAHAH! So you've come this far! Let me tell you, I'm tough! My Pokémon will crush stones and shatter bones! Watch this! Urggh! ... Oooarrgh! There! Scared now, are you? What? It has nothing to do with Pokémon? That's true! Come on. We shall do battle!"

"I am Clair. The world's best dragon master. I can hold my own against even the Pokémon League's Elite Four. Do you still want to take me on? ...Fine. Let's do it! As a trainer, I will use my full power against any opponent!"

"Wow, it's not often that we get a challenger from Johto. I'm Brock, the Pewter Gym Leader. I'm an expert on Rock-type Pokémon. My Pokémon are impervious to most physical attacks. You'll have a hard time inflicting any damage. Come on!"

"Hey, little tyke! I have to hand it to you. It may not be very smart to challenge me, but it takes guts! When it comes to electric Pokémon, I'm number one! I've never lost on the battlefield. I'll zap you just like I did my enemies in war!"

"Yo! Finally got here, huh? I wasn't in the mood at Cinnabar, but now I'm ready to battle you. … You're telling me you conquered all the Gyms in Johto? Heh! Johto's Gyms must be pretty pathetic then. Hey, don't worry about it. I'll know if you are good or not by battling you right now. Ready, Johto Champ?"

"Welcome to Pokémon League, <player>. Allow me to introduce myself. I am Will. I have trained all around the world, making my psychic Pokémon powerful. And, at last, I've been accepted into the Elite Four. I can only keep getting better! Losing is not an option!"

"I am Bruno of the Elite Four. I always train to the extreme because I believe in our potential. That is how we became strong. Can you withstand our power? Hm? I see no fear in you. You look determined. Perfect for battle! Ready, <player>? You will bow down to our overwhelming power! Hoo hah!"

Falkner's quote even alludes to the fact that people routinely banter about specific Pokemon types being weak or strong, so he feels compelled to defend their honour:

People say you can clip Flying-type Pokémon's wings with a jolt of electricity... I won't allow such insults to bird Pokémon!

It doesn't necessarily invalidate her stance to say both things. As I said, her opening remark is her stating her belief in the power of Dark-type Pokemon and challenging the player to try and defeat her - it's literally "I think that Dark-type Pokemon are powerful; if you disagree, prove me wrong."

And when you do... she acknowledges that, and says that she likes your style. In general, a lot of Gym Leaders and Elite Four are like this in earlier gens: brash and confrontational when you challenge them, and grudgingly respectful once you win. Even the nicer ones tend to say things like "don't get cocky just because you beat me, you're still not as hot as you might think". Even if she still thinks Dark-types are the best, she's admitting her respect for you winning with a (presumably) balanced team.
 
Last edited:
That's something all Elite Four and Gym Leaders do, though. Boasting about your power in an attempt to intimidate your foe has been an accepted part of human conflict for... well, for pretty much all of human history actually, but there's countless examples in GSC alone of other bosses doing it (emphasis my own).

"WAHAHAH! So you've come this far! Let me tell you, I'm tough! My Pokémon will crush stones and shatter bones! Watch this! Urggh! ... Oooarrgh! There! Scared now, are you? What? It has nothing to do with Pokémon? That's true! Come on. We shall do battle!"

"I am Clair. The world's best dragon master. I can hold my own against even the Pokémon League's Elite Four. Do you still want to take me on? ...Fine. Let's do it! As a trainer, I will use my full power against any opponent!"

"Wow, it's not often that we get a challenger from Johto. I'm Brock, the Pewter Gym Leader. I'm an expert on Rock-type Pokémon. My Pokémon are impervious to most physical attacks. You'll have a hard time inflicting any damage. Come on!"

"Hey, little tyke! I have to hand it to you. It may not be very smart to challenge me, but it takes guts! When it comes to electric Pokémon, I'm number one! I've never lost on the battlefield. I'll zap you just like I did my enemies in war!"

"Yo! Finally got here, huh? I wasn't in the mood at Cinnabar, but now I'm ready to battle you. … You're telling me you conquered all the Gyms in Johto? Heh! Johto's Gyms must be pretty pathetic then. Hey, don't worry about it. I'll know if you are good or not by battling you right now. Ready, Johto Champ?"

"Welcome to Pokémon League, <player>. Allow me to introduce myself. I am Will. I have trained all around the world, making my psychic Pokémon powerful. And, at last, I've been accepted into the Elite Four. I can only keep getting better! Losing is not an option!"

"I am Bruno of the Elite Four. I always train to the extreme because I believe in our potential. That is how we became strong. Can you withstand our power? Hm? I see no fear in you. You look determined. Perfect for battle! Ready, <player>? You will bow down to our overwhelming power! Hoo hah!"

Falkner's quote even alludes to the fact that people routinely banter about specific Pokemon types being weak or strong, so he feels compelled to defend their honour:

People say you can clip Flying-type Pokémon's wings with a jolt of electricity... I won't allow such insults to bird Pokémon!

It doesn't necessarily invalidate her stance to say both things. As I said, her opening remark is her stating her belief in the power of Dark-type Pokemon and challenging the player to try and defeat her - it's literally "I think that Dark-type Pokemon are powerful; if you disagree, prove me wrong."

And when you do... she acknowledges that, and says that she likes your style. In general, a lot of Gym Leaders and Elite Four are like this in earlier gens: brash and confrontational when you challenge them, and grudgingly respectful once you win. Even the nicer ones tend to say things like "don't get cocky just because you beat me, you're still not as hot as you might think". Even if she still thinks Dark-types are the best, she's admitting her respect for you winning with a (presumably) balanced team.
My counter argument is that you can see a distinction in several of these lines between when the characters are gassing up their own ability (Chuck, Will, Bruno, Falkner, and even Clair ironically enough) vs specifically trying to undermine yours in the pre-battle boasting (Lt. Surge, Blue, and Karen as some are discussing). The latter are in 2 cases coming from characters who are generally depicted as arrogant and not particularly approachable/polite in most multimedia depictions of the that timeframe in-universe, be it them or counterparts like Blue-Gary (and Blue still acknowledges you as a Champ and basically says "maybe the Gyms suck, but I'll let you speak for yourself in battle" which suggests he's trying to push your buttons to get a harder fight). Karen talking a big game before the battle is in character, but she's specifically talking in a way that brushes off your ability despite getting to where you are.

"My Pokemon are so tough. Think you can take me on? Just try to entertain me" in most other contexts is used to denote a character who assumes they'll win for sure and is mostly hoping they have to put in an amusing amount of effort (you see a lot of this with arrogant Shonen villains like Frieza in Dragon Ball, or even just joke memes like UI Shaggy). Karen's line would make much more sense to me coming from someone like Bruno, whose pre-battle quote is still very much a "this is how I view strength, show me how you do" kind of spiel.

I think the part I take umbrage with is some of the word choices muddying the sentiment. Pokemon being "strong or weak" is not just down to perception, even within context there is a clear discrepancy between the ability of several Pokemon to battle, such that many clearly are better at avoiding conflict or alluded to multiple times in the dex as fighting dirty or hiding/being weak from informational sources. Some Pokemon simply are not meant for battling by depiction, so it doesn't make one a skilled trainer to try pushing them into something they're not suited for rather than playing to what they are capable of. This also can depend retroactively on if "Trainer" refers specifically to just anyone who partners with Pokemon or specifically Battlers (as opposed to Coordinators, Breeders, people Employed with them, Performers, etc.), though I won't harp on this too much for Gen 2.

Besides that, "truly skilled" is another word I don't like, because as many a strawman takedown will show, it gives this impression that using the best performing Pokemon instead of a mish-mash of Pokemon you like, ability or synergy be damned, takes less skill as a trainer. It's a subject you can't escape when looking at competitive where stuff like CHALK or Restricted Centralization happens in VGC, or Smogon OU is centered heavily around whatever Ground or Ghost mon of a given gen. Trying to use your favorites doesn't indicate skill unless you can take them far competing with others, and if you have multiple favorites, what happens if they don't compete well together; A lot of my favorites include stuff like Toxicroak, Chandelure, Tinkaton, and Bisharp/Kingambit. Is it skillful to use a bunch of them knowing I'll crumple to basically anything with Earthquake? And does this mean I'm more skilled for finding teammates to help my otherwise troubled favorites, or that I should be trying to make this disparate-battling team of Mons I like work anyway?

I'd harp on this a lot less if the word had been something like "dedicated" or "devoted" for the trainer, as it is a better reflection of trainers who try to make a few favorite mons work as compared to those who try to find the most effective battle strategies first. Suggesting it's a matter of skill rings a bit hollow coming from main-game as well because putting aside my gripes about difficulty or AI, you can count the battles that you can't just Unga-through with neutral/SE moves on one hand in any given game (Misty's Starmie, Whitney's infamous Miltank or Morty's Gengar, Lenora's Watchog, Totem Mimikyu, etc), so this isn't a context where using your favorites over the "best" stuff takes significantly more skill or effort unless the player is totally unfamiliar with Pokemon's basic mechanics.
 

Coronis

Impressively round
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
My counter argument is that you can see a distinction in several of these lines between when the characters are gassing up their own ability (Chuck, Will, Bruno, Falkner, and even Clair ironically enough) vs specifically trying to undermine yours in the pre-battle boasting (Lt. Surge, Blue, and Karen as some are discussing). The latter are in 2 cases coming from characters who are generally depicted as arrogant and not particularly approachable/polite in most multimedia depictions of the that timeframe in-universe, be it them or counterparts like Blue-Gary (and Blue still acknowledges you as a Champ and basically says "maybe the Gyms suck, but I'll let you speak for yourself in battle" which suggests he's trying to push your buttons to get a harder fight). Karen talking a big game before the battle is in character, but she's specifically talking in a way that brushes off your ability despite getting to where you are.

"My Pokemon are so tough. Think you can take me on? Just try to entertain me" in most other contexts is used to denote a character who assumes they'll win for sure and is mostly hoping they have to put in an amusing amount of effort (you see a lot of this with arrogant Shonen villains like Frieza in Dragon Ball, or even just joke memes like UI Shaggy). Karen's line would make much more sense to me coming from someone like Bruno, whose pre-battle quote is still very much a "this is how I view strength, show me how you do" kind of spiel.

I think the part I take umbrage with is some of the word choices muddying the sentiment. Pokemon being "strong or weak" is not just down to perception, even within context there is a clear discrepancy between the ability of several Pokemon to battle, such that many clearly are better at avoiding conflict or alluded to multiple times in the dex as fighting dirty or hiding/being weak from informational sources. Some Pokemon simply are not meant for battling by depiction, so it doesn't make one a skilled trainer to try pushing them into something they're not suited for rather than playing to what they are capable of. This also can depend retroactively on if "Trainer" refers specifically to just anyone who partners with Pokemon or specifically Battlers (as opposed to Coordinators, Breeders, people Employed with them, Performers, etc.), though I won't harp on this too much for Gen 2.

Besides that, "truly skilled" is another word I don't like, because as many a strawman takedown will show, it gives this impression that using the best performing Pokemon instead of a mish-mash of Pokemon you like, ability or synergy be damned, takes less skill as a trainer. It's a subject you can't escape when looking at competitive where stuff like CHALK or Restricted Centralization happens in VGC, or Smogon OU is centered heavily around whatever Ground or Ghost mon of a given gen. Trying to use your favorites doesn't indicate skill unless you can take them far competing with others, and if you have multiple favorites, what happens if they don't compete well together; A lot of my favorites include stuff like Toxicroak, Chandelure, Tinkaton, and Bisharp/Kingambit. Is it skillful to use a bunch of them knowing I'll crumple to basically anything with Earthquake? And does this mean I'm more skilled for finding teammates to help my otherwise troubled favorites, or that I should be trying to make this disparate-battling team of Mons I like work anyway?

I'd harp on this a lot less if the word had been something like "dedicated" or "devoted" for the trainer, as it is a better reflection of trainers who try to make a few favorite mons work as compared to those who try to find the most effective battle strategies first. Suggesting it's a matter of skill rings a bit hollow coming from main-game as well because putting aside my gripes about difficulty or AI, you can count the battles that you can't just Unga-through with neutral/SE moves on one hand in any given game (Misty's Starmie, Whitney's infamous Miltank or Morty's Gengar, Lenora's Watchog, Totem Mimikyu, etc), so this isn't a context where using your favorites over the "best" stuff takes significantly more skill or effort unless the player is totally unfamiliar with Pokemon's basic mechanics.
Slight over analysis I feel.
 
The key difference between Karen and all the other NPCs mentioned is that she specifically says she loves Dark types because they're strong. That isn't boasting of her own Pokemon's strength or her ability as a trainer, but that she likes Dark types because they're strong by nature. For her to go on to say that thinking of Pokémon in terms of weak or strong is selfish is absolutely hypocritical. She says skilled trainers should fight with Pokémon they like, and the Pokémon she likes, she likes because they're strong.
 
The interesting part of her saying that Dark types are strong is that they aren't. I mean, ignoring Gen II's lack of options in general, which is it's own thing, the flavor for Dark types is that they're sneaky, underhanded attackers. Bite, Feint Attack, Thief...they trick you and fight dirty to win, which makes having Karen brag about how straightforwardly powerful the type is seem odd.
 
I enjoy using mixed attackers more than specialized/minmaxed Pokémon during ingame runs. Pokémon like Charizard, Decidueye, and Swampert can run all the moves they can learn effectively, while Pokémon like Cinderace and Primarina are rather limited to use their optimal moves.

Both are effective ingame, but I prefer to get creative sometimes.

IMO Toxic competitive players are more annoying since they love to shit on people trying out unorthodox sets. I remember someone who called me stupid for running AoA Mega Blastoise because "it should always run Rapid Spin".
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Many of the Gen 4 ones for instance were pretty divisive among many fans, particularly the likes of Magmortar, Probopass, Lickilicky, and whatnot. I know Magmortar is kinda not very warmly received in particular.

You had some who were pretty well received from a design standpoint like Electivire and Weavile, while others...really didn't totally take off.
I find many of the cross gen evos people don't like try to do something else with the Pokemon, a departure from a theme the previous stage had (or direction the evolution chain was going if it was added onto a 2 stage family): Going through the cross gen evos (also not doing any Regional or Branched as those are meant to be a departure from theme):

Crobat (Liked): There's not a lot to go on from Golbat. The major change between Zu' to Gol' is that it gained eyes and (usable) feet (and I guess a bigger mouth that not takes up most of its body. So they just continued adding body parts, notably a second pair of wings and little hands on its top pair of wings (and more developed eyes). Oh, and for some reason reversing its color scheme, guess it does make it stand out more.

Annihilape (Liked): Design-wise there's little difference between it and Primeape, but of course that was on purpose. Building off Primeape's lore, notably that dark Pokedex entry about it dying if it got too angry... well, it happened, and it became a vengeful Ghost-type! It doesn't need to look that much different, just a gloomier palette, its wrist bands damaged, and hair flowing because its ethereal now.

Magnezone (Liked): First Magneton is three Magnemites magnetically "stuck" together, and Magnezone is now them literally stuck together. It not resembling a flying saucer isn't too out there are the Magneton species always did look a bit alien, or at least sci-fi machine drone being.

Steelix (Liked): Rock snake becomes steel/diamond snake.

Lickilicky (Disliked): Now, it's not that Lickilicky is that big of a departure from Lickitung, BUT it's not a direction people were expecting. It goes from a chameleon with emphasis on its tongue to a rotund bipedal with aristocrat-like body designs. And, while the tongue is still present, the rotund body is the first thing that draws your attention. Now, I don't know what direction I would have gone with a Lickitung evo, but I feel keeping the tongue as the center of attention rather than inflating its bland body would be the starting point.

Rhyperior (Disliked): Before Gen IV the thing with the Rhyhorn family had always been the horn. It's a rock rhino, as a Rhyhorn it charges horn first and when it evolves the horn becomes a drill. It's all about the horn... so obviously Rhyperior focuses on body armor and arm cannons. Yeah, it's horn drill is still there, but while Rhydon you can see being flexible enough to headbutt its horn down onto an opponent (possibly grabbing them before doing so). But Rhyperior looks too bulky to do that, making it horn drill feel just decorative.

Blissey (Liked): For having to work with a REALLY simple design like Chansey, they did the best they could in a logical direction of a nurturing Pokemon become a nurse (possibly inspired by Chansey's role as signature assistant to Nurse Joy in the anime, which just gives it further bonus points).

Tangrowth (Neutral): It's just a bigger Tangela with arms now. While certainly not "ruining" the design or theme, also doesn't really push it forward either. If anything, and in my opinion, it makes it look less interesting. Tangela was just this random bundle of detailed tangled vines with a pair of red shoes. Tangrowth simplifies the vines by having the "visible" ones just hanging threads and the "shoes" becoming stubbed feet attached to black legs; and despite the legs looking part of Tangela's "hidden" body, the arms are vines? So are they its actual arms or just vines its controlling like arms, and why do they have red tips? Yes, I know it's supposed to look like a shaggy caveman, but even on that front I feel it fails. Croconaw looks like a caveman, this just looks like a relative of Cousin Itt but without the funny hat and glasses.

Kingdra (Liked): Just taking the seahorse's relations to dragons to its most logical conclusion.

Mr. Rime (Liked): Granted its an evolution of a Regional Variant, BUT it does start out as a normal Mime Jr. so I'll count it. If anything it being an evolution of a Regional Variant helps it. Had it been an evolution to normal Mr. Mime might have felt a bit jarring for it to go from a mime to a vaudeville tap dancer, but G-Mr. Mime sets up for it nicely and expands the theme of the entire family to being "entertainers" than just mimes & clowns.

Scizor & Kleavor (Liked): I'll let this one be a two-fer. Scyther's key feature is its blade arms, so its evolutions also focus on a weapon-based arm.

Electivire (Liked): Electabuzz is based on an oni (with Elekid just being a smaller, simpler 'Buzz with a funny prong head, which could be seen as horns which kept with the oni theme). While oni are a specific kind of Yokai, their depiction can vary. Thus, while Electivire may take additional design inspirations from apeman cryptids like Sasquatch and the Yeti, there are also hairy oni like the Namahage.

Magmortar (Disliked): Magmar for all intents and purposes is a magma duck. Magmortar is a big-lipped fat guy (already often associated with "ugly" designs). Just, every aspect of Magmar's design that made it cool (haha, temperature joke) they just went wrong with Magmortar. Yes, people made fun of Magmar's head bumps, but it kept it looking like a duck (I know, odd as ducks don't have that kind of head) as well as having a protruding bill (Magby would cement these traits as part of the family). It's fire pattern was simple yet recognizable, and while having normal hands it had a long tail with a flame tip. Magmortar goes all in on the cannon arms that is de-emphasizes everything else. The head is made more simple and the beak is shoved so close it looks like a giant lip you'd seen in old racist cartoons, the fire detailing it made very abstract with a sudden out-of-place inclusion of pink leg joints, and the fire tail is just made with wavy red blob that is supposed to look like fire. How this got approved I don't know.

Porygon2 & Porygon-Z (Liked): Another double, though this time it's two evos one after the other. And makes sense, being its Porygon, the computer program Pokemon. And following the theme, on-going programs need updates & improvements which is what Porygon2 demonstrates (among some other themes like an evolving AI and also technology become smaller & lighter as it progresses). Porygon-Z can be seen as a departure of that set up theme, though I would say that's due to Porygon2 demonstrating it perfectly they wanted to highlight another idea concerning updates: when it goes wrong (and possibly the idea of a rogue AI). And Porygon-Z does just a good job of it as Porygon2 did with Porygon. Whereas 2 is just a smoothed out version of Porygon, Z is 2 but twisted around; it's legs are now arms and its neck is now a horn/antenna resulting in the head just floating unconnected to the body. It's pretty brilliant.

Togekiss (Liked): Honestly the Togepi family is already a strange one. Togepi is an ambiguous creature hatching from an egg which evolves into a fairy. There's really no "rules" that Togekiss had to follow aside being a flying creature, and so it went with that: it became bird-like. And, while hard to explain, it works. If I had to try to put it in words, I would say Togekiss "bookends" the family with its design evolving it further into a flying animal (though still remains amorphous you could say it resembles a stylized spirit or even angel) but its round shape relates to Togepi being a hatchling which wears its egg shell as a protective pajama (and also birds lay eggs, obviously).

Ambipom (Disliked): Well, we were bound to get to one that went against my suggestion. Ambipom is not a departure from Aipom, it's the logical progression: It goes from a monkey with a tail hand to a monkey with TWO tail hands. But maybe that is the issue: Ambipom just didn't change enough. Because aside from the two tail hands, what else changed about it? It got longer? If anything that works against it, Aipom is at least cute cause its small, Ambipom is approaching an uncanny valley that I would compare to "Ugly Sonic". And what does Ambipom do with its two tails that is any different from Aipom? Ambipom feels like a middle stage, one that's designed to be a connection between the simple basic stage and the complex final stage that explains why it needs all those tail hands. Maybe one day Ambipom you'll evolve out of your awkward teenage phase you're stuck in at the moment.

Yanmega (Liked): A common joke with Pokemon who evolution stages are similar to one another is that you can tell them apart because the basic stage has cute eyes and the final stage has angry eyes. While there is body change between Yanma and Yanmega, in the end they're both still giant dragonflies. The difference is that Yanma looks friendly (not sure if cute is exactly the right word in this case) while Yanmega looks like it wakes up everyday choosing violence. And this works, Yanma as a solo Pokemon never had the looks (or the stats) to be a Pokemon you'd have on a serious team; Yanmega does (both appearance and stats).

Honchkrow (Liked): And here's another going against what I suggested, maybe. Before Gen IV many assumed part of Murkrow's design took from witches, such as having a pointy hat and it's tail looking like a broom's bristles (and idea further supported by the anime where Ash & co. encountered a witch-in-training who's Pokemon partner was Murkrow). So you'd think an evolution of Murkrow will go along a witch or magic route. But instead it became a mob boss. Odd at first, but then again, Murkrow's hat could also resemble a gangster's fedora (and a common decoration for fedoras was sticking a feather in its band). Also, its dex entries never really linked it to anything, it was just a mischievous bird that led people astray and liked shiny things. Which, hey, you can twist into saying something gangsters do. All they need is a godfather to get them working as an organization. Also, with Mismagius taking the witch route, they were probably more looking for the open interpretation. All they needed was a good design and, yeah, Honchkrow very much led to a good design.

Mismagius (Liked): It starts as a floating head, so evolves to have a general "body" while also keeping the stereotypical "bedsheet" ghost shape. And while I could go into its origins which don't exactly 1:1 relate to witches (or magic really), I think there focus here was more on the red jewels. The way they're worn by Misdreavus gives her a fancy lady-like vibe, so when it evolves it extends down into a dress; where the witch aesthetic came from maybe wanting to do something more with the hair than just longer. Whatever the case, I think it works out.

Farigiraf (Liked): Getting to the newest evos now where the lines between keeping in theme and departure becomes blurry. Farigiraf straddles that line the closest, and does so with such sheer audacity that, from what I can tell, it won everyone over upon its debut and we learned more about it. A hypothetical Girafarig evo has been discussed for years, most turning the tail head into a fully developed head in some way. To combine the heads together where the tail head now serves as a protective hood for the main head is such an inspired idea as it keeps the general idea of Girafairg but puts a new spin which makes sense for it to be an evo.

Dudunsparce (Likedisliked): I like it. I hate it. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. This is dumb and a waste. This is ingenious and worth it. You're hot than you're cold, you're yes than you're no. This is what Dunsparce would want to evolve into. Dunsparce deserved better. I am THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGAAAA@Aa#&%$1!...
... Sorry about that, my left and right side of my brain just had an argument, it was all about my thoughts on Dudunsparce. Dudunsparce... I think defies analysis. It's as if GF asked Dunsparce itself what would it want to evolve into and it said "I dunno, double of me, maybe three?" and went off that. It is the Dunsparce of evolutions. It's Dunsparce but most every trait is doubled; Dunsparce squared! And the cherry on top is that it has a rare form, and the only thing the rare form does is add a third body segmet; doesn't even triple all body traits, just adds a third segment and calls it a day. It's an evolution Dunsparce is proud of, but then again it didn't aspire to much anyway so probably a bad idea to ask it in the first place.
... Okay, I had my fun, here's my serious thoughts. I feel everyone was split when it was first discovered/leaked(?). I was on the disliking side initially, and I'll admit I'm still a bit disappointed (mainly with its lackluster stats and same Abilities), but getting a better look at it and having time to think, I get it. Because, if you look at most fanmade evos, they really want a departure from what Dunsparce is. Dunsparce is based on a rather lowkey Yokai and most fanmades I've seen turns it into a mesoamerica feathered serpent deity; aka the Magikarp treatment. But there was a reason behind Magikarp (and Feebas) doing that; Dunsparce doesn't. Now, Bulbapedia lists a few interesting origins for its design, one being a larger serpent Yokai, so I think a lot of thought did go into Dudunsparce. It felt like a personal challenge GF gave themselves: can they make a good design by not changing Dunsparce much but stretching that definition to its absolute limit? And on that thought, yeah, it's a nice design; but it could have been more.

Gliscor (Liked): Just a bigger, meaner Gligar.

Weavile (Liked): And just a more "royal" Sneasel. Weavile is actually an interesting case as, like many Pokemon, it's sort of a mixture of a few animals and legends attached to it. For Sneasel's case it's a feline-weasel. For Sneasel (and Weavile of course) that weasel inclusion is important because it's based on the kamaitachi yokai. But for Weavile, it leans on the feline in a brilliant way: Egyption worship of felines. It turns the odd feather ear Sneasel had (originally just to reference the kamaitachi being a whirlwind yokai) and turns it into a full headdress resembling Egyption fashion (yes, feathered headdresses are more a Native American thing but they used it as sort of a connecting point; one Gen later we get Braviary so it's all good). Infact, keeping in pattern with doing everything opposite of Weavile, Sneasler more sticks with its kamaitachi origin becoming slender, claws lengthening, and its feather growing longer and ribbon-like. Even if you like Sneasler more than Weavile, still gotta give Weavile it due credit as without it Sneasler wouldn't have anything to be opposite of.

Ursaluna (Neutral): I don't mind Ursaluna for all it's trying to do, but I can understand those who liked Ursaring not liking the execution of the design. Like most of the Hisuian Evos/Forms, its based on something from Ainu culture, and in this case it's a very notable one: Kim-un-kamuy, the divine spirit (kamuy) of bears & mountains. The Ainu practiced bear worship, and the connection between bear and mountains is because the native bear species, Ussuri brown bear, make their dens in excavated burrows (and their connection to peat from some turning old coal mines into dens). So the theme is all their... but, as I said, the execution is the issue. I get representing a mountain is easier with it being a quadruped, but it just looks dirty than like a mountain. And while what they did with the eyebrows is a neat idea (with the circle on its head looks like a moon with clouds in front of it), it also unfortunately makes it look old. They tried for mountain bear god, but to some what they got was dirty old bear that fell forward and can't get up.

Mamoswine (Liked): While probably "neutral" initially, I think overtime it went into Liked territory after seeing it didn't actually change much from the Swinub family. At first it does, changing into a mammoth from a boar, but there's two (possibly three) factors in play: (1) Most obvious is both are/can be "woolly" species, (2) there were giant ancient boar species (or pig-like like the Entelodont, aka the "Hell Pigs"), and possibly (3) the first drawing reconstruction of a mammoth, which looked more like a boar than an elephant because the artist went off just the remains that were discovered (which of course didn't include the trunk as it either rotted away or was eaten by wild animals). Mamoswine may be a slight side-step in design to the Swinub family, but I argue it still keeps within the general theme.

Wyrdeer (Liked): It's an older, wiser Stantler.

Probopass (Disliked): While probably more have gone more "neutral" on it, I feel that's just from getting used to the design rather than the design making some sense over time. Now, to give credit, Probopass looks like what a Moai Statue likely did when it was made, with eyes made of white coral & obsidian and a hat-like structure called a pukao, and parts of it painted red. Note that ones with pukao were likely based on people with higher status, likely chieftains whose hair were tied in topknots the pukao are meant to replicate, so Probopass is a "chief" hence why it has the "mini-noses", they are its subjects. Alls well and good for a pretty neat design... let's ruin it by giving it a mustache for no reason! They could have done a number of things to references its magnetic properties (make the mini-noses out of metal to better explain how its controlling them), but I guess they thought with the mustache it looked a little like Mario, thought it was funny, and decided to keep it. And yes, I know about the Wooly Willy toy, I don't think that was a factor nor does it make anymore sense.

Roserade (Liked): Roselia was always presented as a suave Pokemon, so makes sense it would evolve into a Pokemon which wouldn't look out-of-place at a masquerade party.

Dusknoir (Liked): At first it would feel like Dusknoir is a big departure from Dusclops, but the thing is that Dusclops was a departure from Duskull. The family was never based on a singular ghost or spirit, and if anything Dusknoir goes backwards in development by floating around again. But it does share the main traits with its prevos: a singular big red eye, some sort of face design, and seemingly wearing a cloak/bandages.

Kingambit (Neutral): Our last Pokemon, bet you weren't expecting this jump! Yeah, due to Gen V being a point where they stopped cross gen evos until recently, really no Pokemon species that debut in Gen IV and beyond got a cross evo... except Bisharp this recent gen. Considering their slight Shogi/Chess theme, took them 13 years to complete this evolution line, but better late than never I suppose. Kingambit is an interesting design as, to reference its a leader, part of its design is that it's a throne. I think had they stopped there that would be fine, but then they went an extra odd step: they made it have beetle aesthetics. I sort of get it, it goes with the throne theme and its Signature Move, as well maybe referencing it looking like a Kaman Rider villain, but its prevos didn't have these beetle traits (unless you stretch it with their heads being kabuto helmets) so it sort of comes out of nowhere.


Slightly tangential, but this makes me think me of the quiz in Dragon's Den.

Considering that the answers are pretty self-evident it's quite funny that Clair states she hasn't been confirmed; I like to imagine that she's taken the quiz every week for years and years and still hasn't grasped the correct answers because she's just that boneheaded and stubborn. We obviously don't know what answers she gave to the quiz but given the way she's characterised it seems like she'd struggle with #3 and #5 in particular:
I also think the Dragon Den's Master purposely gave you softball questions because Clair is currently being a jerk and he wants to teach her a lesson. Note what he says:

Meeting With Player: "Hm... Good to see you here. No need to explain why you came. Clair sent you here, didn’t she? That girl is a handful... I am sorry, but I must test you. Not to worry, you are to answer only a few questions. Ready?"

Says To Clair After Player Passes: "Clair! This child is impeccable, in skill and spirit! Admit defeat and confer the Rising Badge! ...Or must I inform Lance of this?"
And keep in mind you can't fail the test, he'll accept any answer and still say you care deeply about your Pokemon. The only difference between failing and passing the test is whether the Dratini you get knows Extreme Speed. So, while in one way he was judging the player, it was also a lesson to Clair to not be selfish and refuse her duties just because she was bested, especially when she herself has a lot to learn.

I imagine the questions Clair has to answer are probably harder and have definite wrong answers (and likely more Dragon-type related):

Master: Ready Clair? First question: Where do Dratini shed their skin?
Clair: Easy! Under a protection of a waterfall.
Master: Second question: How long is Dragonair?
Clair: 4 meters.
Master: Third question: What is Dragonite's top flight speed?
Clair: Approximately 2,505 km/h, fast enough to travel around the entire planet in 16 hours.
Master: Fourth question: Kindgra often accidentally create whirlpools how?
Clair: *Yawns* By yawning.
Master: Hmm... fifth question: How many Dragon-type Pokemon originate from Kanto & Johto?
Clair: We just covered them all, 4.
*SMACK!*
Clair: OW! Have you forgotten how to count old man?
Master: *Hands Clair a magazine article* A newly researched phenomenon from the Kalos region has the ability to turn some Pokemon into Dragon-types, some which originated from here.
Clair: Mega Evolution? Charizard and Ampharos?! HOW was I supposed to know THAT?
Master: As a Dragon Master to-be you should be aware of ANY new development on Dragon-types. Lance gave me this magazine article a week ago after hearing about Mega Evolution from a Champion colleague of his.
Clair: Sorry I'm not as well connected as Mr. Dragon Champion...
Master: WHAT was that?
Clair: I'll do my due diligence and learn all I can of the Dragon-type before my next test, Master. Stupid Kalos, stupid Mega Pokemon, don't even have a Mega Kingdra...

Question 3 there bugs me. No, I don't want to fight weak trainers, I'm not Nemona. Let them get better first so it's a fair fight, neither of us gets anything out of me stomping them.
I'd also say that I'm not a huge fan of the wording change to question 1 in HGSS. While 'underling' has clear ideas of superiority, 'junior' feels like it might brush up too close to a teaching context.
Honestly all the questions & answers could use a bit of a touch up:
  1. What are Pokemon to you? Friends, Partners, Pets
  2. What helps you win battles? Strategy, Training, Charm
  3. What kind of Trainers do you like battling? Willing, Worthy, Easy-Going
  4. What is important for raising Pokemon? Love, Knowledge, Achievements
  5. What kind of Pokemon do you want to train? Trusting, Powerful, Devoted
Then again, these questions were written with kids in mind so probably didn't want to make them too ambiguous. So, taking my 3rd question as example, Willing/Worthy/Easy-Going has the same context as Anyone/Strong/Weak but the latter are words kids of any age will understand.

Though in regards to the 3rd and 5th question, even written as simply as they are I feel there is also lost context (and is sort of meant to be an in-world view).
Why would you want to fight "weak" trainers? Well, who decided the trainer was "weak"? In theory, any trainer can be capable of giving you a tough battle, you don't know until you battle them. Judging a trainer of being "strong" or "weak" either requires previous knowledge of them, which means you battled them, or you're judging them by an outside factor such as appearance or age. And one trainer may be "weak" to you is "strong" to someone else and vice versa. As Trainers you're responsibility is to battle other Trainers to strengthen your Pokemon, in both physical body and your bond of friendship, it doesn't matter how you consider the opponent outside of the moment of battle.
Why are "weak" Pokemon important? While a lot of the logic above also applies here, if we're talking in terms of experience a "weak" Pokemon can become a "strong" Pokemon via training. Your Starter ain't going to make a dent against any of the Champion's Pokemon, but by the time you face them that Level 5 shrimp is now a Level 50+ powerhouse with a party of Pokemon who probably also went through a similar transition.

Given Nemona was brought up, isn't this literally what her goal as your rival is? She brings up training a new team specifically to pace herself alongside you until you become a Champion that she can challenge on equal terms.
Except Nemona still uses the same team she's been training up since the start. Infact, despite at one point saying she's going to train up dozens of Pokemon, she never changes her party at all. It's disappointing, like what was the team Nemona used to become Champion? Is that still her strongest team? Had she made a stronger team since then? You can't honestly tell me all the Pokemon on the team she trained up against us is her best team.

K so I'm also late to the Karen party because I diverted to a different topic but fuck it: I never really read her as a hypocrite and I think that to do so is kind of a wild reach.
She can still be a hypocrite but be totally sincere in her thoughts:
  • She loves Dark-types because one of the things she sees in them is that they're strong.
  • When she loses she says "strong" and "weak" are selfish perceptions. Truly skilled trainers win with their favorites.
All these things together are hypocritical, that's a fact. It forms a circular logic which both defends and defeats itself: Karen thinks Dark-types are strong > Strong/Weak are selfish terms > Skilled Trainers win with favorites > Karen's favorite Pokemon are Dark-types > Repeat. In her statement she makes it sound like Selfish and Skilled Trainers are opposites, yet, according to Karen's circle logic, that would mean she considers herself both Selfish & Skilled. Which is very possible and something she may very well agree with, but still means she's a hypocrite (one that's willing to indulge in her hypocrisy).

Her liking Dark type Pokémon doesn't make it okay to take this haughty attitude about how strong they are.
She's a Dark-type Trainer who relishes the Type. Remember, in Japan, the Type is called "Evil"-Type. It makes total sense she acts all haughty.

The interesting part of her saying that Dark types are strong is that they aren't. I mean, ignoring Gen II's lack of options in general, which is it's own thing, the flavor for Dark types is that they're sneaky, underhanded attackers. Bite, Feint Attack, Thief...they trick you and fight dirty to win, which makes having Karen brag about how straightforwardly powerful the type is seem odd.
So, I think one of the main problems here is that, generally, we have no clear idea about Karen's personality. Her dialogue for the Johto games are, well, see the conversation we're having. Problem is, for the main games, this is ALL we have for her. We never see her outside of the League and I don't think there's even an NPC which talks about her (and only FRLG had something like the Fame Checker which is a real shame). BUT there is sid games.

First is Stadium 2. From Karen's dialogue in that game, it does seem to portray her as a cocky character who REALLY gets into the battle, showing her true emotions each moment, but than once the battle is over she puts back on her poker face.
She boasts about herself before battle (she even downplays the other three Elite 4 members).
During battle she's critical of her Pokemon's performance, shows anger & annoyance when on the losing end, but cheerfully teases when things are going her way.
And when she wins or the player forfeits she's pretty nonchalant about it. She doesn't act as if she won a battle, she acts as if she knew she was going to win so when she does it's not a big deal.
But if she loses she starts off with a bit of a tantrum, recomposes herself, and than just says to go face the Champion as if she wasn't just about to curse us out a few seconds ago.

Before battle:
"I am Karen. Would you care for a showdown with my Dark-type Pokémon?"
"I am unlike the three you've already met."

One of her lines sending out her next Pokemon:
"<Pokémon>, don't fail me!"

One of her lines recalling her Pokemon:
"You're no good for this!"

Own Pokemon faints:
"Hmm... Is that how you want to play it?"

Own Pokemon lands a critical hit:
"We weren't deliberately aiming for the weak spot."

Commanding her Pokemon to use Swagger:
"<Pokemon>, be proud--Swagger."

Successfully confusing or flinching the player's Pokemon:
"So? Isn't it outstanding?"

After being defeated:
"No! I can't win. How did you become so strong?"
"I will not stray from my chosen path."
"The Champion is looking forward to meeting you."

After winning:
"That's about what I expected."
"Well, that was relatively entertaining."
"Come visit me anytime."

If the battle ended in a draw:
"A draw...? But how...?"

If the player runs from the battle:
"You're going to reappraise matters, aren't you?"


However, than we come to the most interesting one: Masters EX. While made by a 3rd party, I imagine every piece of dialogue is approved by the Pokemon Company, so it's official.

When interacting with her in the menu interface she does keep her boastful attitude. Her special log-in conversation is where we first get a glimpse of a deeper personality:
  • In the morning she mentions she's not a morning person and tells you it's not good to sleep in late (I think implying she thinks you stayed up all night & morning).
  • In the afternoon that's when her Pokemon start itching for a battle, and encourages us to eat a healthy meal before battle is key.
  • Finally, in the evening, she admires the night and the stars but says it's never good (for a lady) to miss her beauty sleep.
Next are her battle quotes which include lines such as "Strut your stuff", "Work it!", and a few which include the word "style". And combined with what she said about beauty sleep (which won't be the only time the topic of beauty comes up with her), is Karen supposed to be a model? I never got that implication about her character before now.

Anyway, now we start getting into the Story/Event dialogue.
Sticking to her Dark-type preference, she has a few interactions with other Dark-type trainers such as Grimsley and Marnie. From what I can get they sound like positive interactions, nothing much else to gleam.
Skipping ahead to her Sync Pair Story:

It starts with her telling you not to let your guard down. After you agree with her, she mentions there's a loose thread on your clothes and pulls it out. She then berates you because you let your guard down:

"You still don't get it, do you?"
"If my intentions had been malicious instead of helpful just now, you'd already be reduced to a pile of cinders."
"That's why I told you—you can't afford to let your guard down."
"You need to be fully aware, right down to the seams on your clothes. Bad people will invent all sorts of reasons to approach you."
After agreeing again, she commends you for being adaptable, which is something she & Houndoom can't relate to.

(You don't adapt and change?) "No, we don't. To live life following the advice of others..."
"That just wouldn't be in our nature."
(Why not?) "To put it simply, we want to be free to live however we want to."
"We tend to favor that sort of unrestrained lifestyle."

"Likewise, we don't stop anyone else from doing what they want to do, either."
"That being said, you should still straighten up your appearance and try not to give your opponent an opening."
"Besides, if you possess true, genuine power, you won't need to change yourself anyway."
After noticing you not flinching when Houndoom howls and muses on that for a bit, she ends the event with the following:

"Trainers like you should battle with whatever Pokémon they want and however they wish."
"You have your own way of doing things, and so do I..."
"I hope someday we can see how our differences measure up in battle. I'll be looking forward to it."


So Karen believes she's unable to adapt because she lives her life freely. And though she won't stop anyone from doing what they want, she will still tell you what she's thinking such as if someone she trusts (like the player here) is leaving themselves too open for someone malicious to get close and harm them. A small bit of that hypocrisy she's known for, but more context to it shows how it's nothing which conflicts with her ideology.

Finally some random conversations you can have with her in the Pokemon Center. The notable ones:
  • Her love for Dark-types started with Umbreon. Going into its attacks, she muses how her tactics must be infuriating for her opponents and loves how Dark Moves outwit and counter.
  • She spends most of her time in Kanto battling League challengers and how she and her Dark-types "usually has them in the palm of our hand". Just knowing your opponent's Type isn't enough, got to know and form a strategy with your own Pokemon. She also mentions that people think Dark-types don't play fair just because of their Move's names, but understanding move effects isn't something that's unique to Dark-types.
  • Concerning Type Matchups, tells a quick story how she faced a Trainer who insisted on battling with their first Pokemon despite having a disadvantage. First time she won, but next time they won. Type Matchup may be important, "but sometimes victory can be achieved using something more precious than that". She admires trainers who stand by their beliefs; "may be a bit self-centered, but it means they've got the power to do something great".
  • And for the the final one I'll quote it as it goes into detail about what she means by weak and strong Pokemon:
    "There's no such thing as a strong Pokémon or a weak Pokémon, as far as I'm concerned."
    "Every Pokémon is unique in its own way—it's up to the Trainer to figure out how best to utilize that."
    "Any trait can be turned into an advantage as long as you love and encourage your Pokémon."
    "Even if some people might call them weak, I never give up on the Pokémon I love."
    "It's precisely because I love them that I'm able to see all of the good in them."
    "Then again, I'm sure none of this comes as a surprise to you."
So, there, that's Karen for you! An unconformative free spirit with a zest for Dark-types, battling, and beauty.
 
Roserade (Liked): Roselia was always presented as a suave Pokemon, so makes sense it would evolve into a Pokemon which wouldn't look out-of-place at a masquerade party.
Despite the name, it actually took me long enough to realize the intention of Roserade's mask and cape that my previous perceptions stuck around. I interpreted them as leaning into a superhero aesthetic. Combined with its appearance in PMD being alongside Gallade and Rhyperior, this meant that my perception of Roserade as an evolution was also that it dropped its previous concept for its weapon arms (pokedex says whips, but I've internalized as cannons instead due to Rosearde being Special-leaning). Not that I was or am complaining about that. I never much cared for 'flowers are pretty' as a mon concept.

Of course, I also thought for quite a while that Magnezone was a step too far as an evolution as it no longer had an important aspect of the previous entries: their cuteness.
 
I find many of the cross gen evos people don't like try to do something else with the Pokemon, a departure from a theme the previous stage had (or direction the evolution chain was going if it was added onto a 2 stage family): Going through the cross gen evos (also not doing any Regional or Branched as those are meant to be a departure from theme):

Crobat (Liked): There's not a lot to go on from Golbat. The major change between Zu' to Gol' is that it gained eyes and (usable) feet (and I guess a bigger mouth that not takes up most of its body. So they just continued adding body parts, notably a second pair of wings and little hands on its top pair of wings (and more developed eyes). Oh, and for some reason reversing its color scheme, guess it does make it stand out more.

Annihilape (Liked): Design-wise there's little difference between it and Primeape, but of course that was on purpose. Building off Primeape's lore, notably that dark Pokedex entry about it dying if it got too angry... well, it happened, and it became a vengeful Ghost-type! It doesn't need to look that much different, just a gloomier palette, its wrist bands damaged, and hair flowing because its ethereal now.

Magnezone (Liked): First Magneton is three Magnemites magnetically "stuck" together, and Magnezone is now them literally stuck together. It not resembling a flying saucer isn't too out there are the Magneton species always did look a bit alien, or at least sci-fi machine drone being.

Steelix (Liked): Rock snake becomes steel/diamond snake.

Lickilicky (Disliked): Now, it's not that Lickilicky is that big of a departure from Lickitung, BUT it's not a direction people were expecting. It goes from a chameleon with emphasis on its tongue to a rotund bipedal with aristocrat-like body designs. And, while the tongue is still present, the rotund body is the first thing that draws your attention. Now, I don't know what direction I would have gone with a Lickitung evo, but I feel keeping the tongue as the center of attention rather than inflating its bland body would be the starting point.

Rhyperior (Disliked): Before Gen IV the thing with the Rhyhorn family had always been the horn. It's a rock rhino, as a Rhyhorn it charges horn first and when it evolves the horn becomes a drill. It's all about the horn... so obviously Rhyperior focuses on body armor and arm cannons. Yeah, it's horn drill is still there, but while Rhydon you can see being flexible enough to headbutt its horn down onto an opponent (possibly grabbing them before doing so). But Rhyperior looks too bulky to do that, making it horn drill feel just decorative.

Blissey (Liked): For having to work with a REALLY simple design like Chansey, they did the best they could in a logical direction of a nurturing Pokemon become a nurse (possibly inspired by Chansey's role as signature assistant to Nurse Joy in the anime, which just gives it further bonus points).

Tangrowth (Neutral): It's just a bigger Tangela with arms now. While certainly not "ruining" the design or theme, also doesn't really push it forward either. If anything, and in my opinion, it makes it look less interesting. Tangela was just this random bundle of detailed tangled vines with a pair of red shoes. Tangrowth simplifies the vines by having the "visible" ones just hanging threads and the "shoes" becoming stubbed feet attached to black legs; and despite the legs looking part of Tangela's "hidden" body, the arms are vines? So are they its actual arms or just vines its controlling like arms, and why do they have red tips? Yes, I know it's supposed to look like a shaggy caveman, but even on that front I feel it fails. Croconaw looks like a caveman, this just looks like a relative of Cousin Itt but without the funny hat and glasses.

Kingdra (Liked): Just taking the seahorse's relations to dragons to its most logical conclusion.

Mr. Rime (Liked): Granted its an evolution of a Regional Variant, BUT it does start out as a normal Mime Jr. so I'll count it. If anything it being an evolution of a Regional Variant helps it. Had it been an evolution to normal Mr. Mime might have felt a bit jarring for it to go from a mime to a vaudeville tap dancer, but G-Mr. Mime sets up for it nicely and expands the theme of the entire family to being "entertainers" than just mimes & clowns.

Scizor & Kleavor (Liked): I'll let this one be a two-fer. Scyther's key feature is its blade arms, so its evolutions also focus on a weapon-based arm.

Electivire (Liked): Electabuzz is based on an oni (with Elekid just being a smaller, simpler 'Buzz with a funny prong head, which could be seen as horns which kept with the oni theme). While oni are a specific kind of Yokai, their depiction can vary. Thus, while Electivire may take additional design inspirations from apeman cryptids like Sasquatch and the Yeti, there are also hairy oni like the Namahage.

Magmortar (Disliked): Magmar for all intents and purposes is a magma duck. Magmortar is a big-lipped fat guy (already often associated with "ugly" designs). Just, every aspect of Magmar's design that made it cool (haha, temperature joke) they just went wrong with Magmortar. Yes, people made fun of Magmar's head bumps, but it kept it looking like a duck (I know, odd as ducks don't have that kind of head) as well as having a protruding bill (Magby would cement these traits as part of the family). It's fire pattern was simple yet recognizable, and while having normal hands it had a long tail with a flame tip. Magmortar goes all in on the cannon arms that is de-emphasizes everything else. The head is made more simple and the beak is shoved so close it looks like a giant lip you'd seen in old racist cartoons, the fire detailing it made very abstract with a sudden out-of-place inclusion of pink leg joints, and the fire tail is just made with wavy red blob that is supposed to look like fire. How this got approved I don't know.

Porygon2 & Porygon-Z (Liked): Another double, though this time it's two evos one after the other. And makes sense, being its Porygon, the computer program Pokemon. And following the theme, on-going programs need updates & improvements which is what Porygon2 demonstrates (among some other themes like an evolving AI and also technology become smaller & lighter as it progresses). Porygon-Z can be seen as a departure of that set up theme, though I would say that's due to Porygon2 demonstrating it perfectly they wanted to highlight another idea concerning updates: when it goes wrong (and possibly the idea of a rogue AI). And Porygon-Z does just a good job of it as Porygon2 did with Porygon. Whereas 2 is just a smoothed out version of Porygon, Z is 2 but twisted around; it's legs are now arms and its neck is now a horn/antenna resulting in the head just floating unconnected to the body. It's pretty brilliant.

Togekiss (Liked): Honestly the Togepi family is already a strange one. Togepi is an ambiguous creature hatching from an egg which evolves into a fairy. There's really no "rules" that Togekiss had to follow aside being a flying creature, and so it went with that: it became bird-like. And, while hard to explain, it works. If I had to try to put it in words, I would say Togekiss "bookends" the family with its design evolving it further into a flying animal (though still remains amorphous you could say it resembles a stylized spirit or even angel) but its round shape relates to Togepi being a hatchling which wears its egg shell as a protective pajama (and also birds lay eggs, obviously).

Ambipom (Disliked): Well, we were bound to get to one that went against my suggestion. Ambipom is not a departure from Aipom, it's the logical progression: It goes from a monkey with a tail hand to a monkey with TWO tail hands. But maybe that is the issue: Ambipom just didn't change enough. Because aside from the two tail hands, what else changed about it? It got longer? If anything that works against it, Aipom is at least cute cause its small, Ambipom is approaching an uncanny valley that I would compare to "Ugly Sonic". And what does Ambipom do with its two tails that is any different from Aipom? Ambipom feels like a middle stage, one that's designed to be a connection between the simple basic stage and the complex final stage that explains why it needs all those tail hands. Maybe one day Ambipom you'll evolve out of your awkward teenage phase you're stuck in at the moment.

Yanmega (Liked): A common joke with Pokemon who evolution stages are similar to one another is that you can tell them apart because the basic stage has cute eyes and the final stage has angry eyes. While there is body change between Yanma and Yanmega, in the end they're both still giant dragonflies. The difference is that Yanma looks friendly (not sure if cute is exactly the right word in this case) while Yanmega looks like it wakes up everyday choosing violence. And this works, Yanma as a solo Pokemon never had the looks (or the stats) to be a Pokemon you'd have on a serious team; Yanmega does (both appearance and stats).

Honchkrow (Liked): And here's another going against what I suggested, maybe. Before Gen IV many assumed part of Murkrow's design took from witches, such as having a pointy hat and it's tail looking like a broom's bristles (and idea further supported by the anime where Ash & co. encountered a witch-in-training who's Pokemon partner was Murkrow). So you'd think an evolution of Murkrow will go along a witch or magic route. But instead it became a mob boss. Odd at first, but then again, Murkrow's hat could also resemble a gangster's fedora (and a common decoration for fedoras was sticking a feather in its band). Also, its dex entries never really linked it to anything, it was just a mischievous bird that led people astray and liked shiny things. Which, hey, you can twist into saying something gangsters do. All they need is a godfather to get them working as an organization. Also, with Mismagius taking the witch route, they were probably more looking for the open interpretation. All they needed was a good design and, yeah, Honchkrow very much led to a good design.

Mismagius (Liked): It starts as a floating head, so evolves to have a general "body" while also keeping the stereotypical "bedsheet" ghost shape. And while I could go into its origins which don't exactly 1:1 relate to witches (or magic really), I think there focus here was more on the red jewels. The way they're worn by Misdreavus gives her a fancy lady-like vibe, so when it evolves it extends down into a dress; where the witch aesthetic came from maybe wanting to do something more with the hair than just longer. Whatever the case, I think it works out.

Farigiraf (Liked): Getting to the newest evos now where the lines between keeping in theme and departure becomes blurry. Farigiraf straddles that line the closest, and does so with such sheer audacity that, from what I can tell, it won everyone over upon its debut and we learned more about it. A hypothetical Girafarig evo has been discussed for years, most turning the tail head into a fully developed head in some way. To combine the heads together where the tail head now serves as a protective hood for the main head is such an inspired idea as it keeps the general idea of Girafairg but puts a new spin which makes sense for it to be an evo.

Dudunsparce (Likedisliked): I like it. I hate it. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. This is dumb and a waste. This is ingenious and worth it. You're hot than you're cold, you're yes than you're no. This is what Dunsparce would want to evolve into. Dunsparce deserved better. I am THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGAAAA@Aa#&%$1!...
... Sorry about that, my left and right side of my brain just had an argument, it was all about my thoughts on Dudunsparce. Dudunsparce... I think defies analysis. It's as if GF asked Dunsparce itself what would it want to evolve into and it said "I dunno, double of me, maybe three?" and went off that. It is the Dunsparce of evolutions. It's Dunsparce but most every trait is doubled; Dunsparce squared! And the cherry on top is that it has a rare form, and the only thing the rare form does is add a third body segmet; doesn't even triple all body traits, just adds a third segment and calls it a day. It's an evolution Dunsparce is proud of, but then again it didn't aspire to much anyway so probably a bad idea to ask it in the first place.
... Okay, I had my fun, here's my serious thoughts. I feel everyone was split when it was first discovered/leaked(?). I was on the disliking side initially, and I'll admit I'm still a bit disappointed (mainly with its lackluster stats and same Abilities), but getting a better look at it and having time to think, I get it. Because, if you look at most fanmade evos, they really want a departure from what Dunsparce is. Dunsparce is based on a rather lowkey Yokai and most fanmades I've seen turns it into a mesoamerica feathered serpent deity; aka the Magikarp treatment. But there was a reason behind Magikarp (and Feebas) doing that; Dunsparce doesn't. Now, Bulbapedia lists a few interesting origins for its design, one being a larger serpent Yokai, so I think a lot of thought did go into Dudunsparce. It felt like a personal challenge GF gave themselves: can they make a good design by not changing Dunsparce much but stretching that definition to its absolute limit? And on that thought, yeah, it's a nice design; but it could have been more.

Gliscor (Liked): Just a bigger, meaner Gligar.

Weavile (Liked): And just a more "royal" Sneasel. Weavile is actually an interesting case as, like many Pokemon, it's sort of a mixture of a few animals and legends attached to it. For Sneasel's case it's a feline-weasel. For Sneasel (and Weavile of course) that weasel inclusion is important because it's based on the kamaitachi yokai. But for Weavile, it leans on the feline in a brilliant way: Egyption worship of felines. It turns the odd feather ear Sneasel had (originally just to reference the kamaitachi being a whirlwind yokai) and turns it into a full headdress resembling Egyption fashion (yes, feathered headdresses are more a Native American thing but they used it as sort of a connecting point; one Gen later we get Braviary so it's all good). Infact, keeping in pattern with doing everything opposite of Weavile, Sneasler more sticks with its kamaitachi origin becoming slender, claws lengthening, and its feather growing longer and ribbon-like. Even if you like Sneasler more than Weavile, still gotta give Weavile it due credit as without it Sneasler wouldn't have anything to be opposite of.

Ursaluna (Neutral): I don't mind Ursaluna for all it's trying to do, but I can understand those who liked Ursaring not liking the execution of the design. Like most of the Hisuian Evos/Forms, its based on something from Ainu culture, and in this case it's a very notable one: Kim-un-kamuy, the divine spirit (kamuy) of bears & mountains. The Ainu practiced bear worship, and the connection between bear and mountains is because the native bear species, Ussuri brown bear, make their dens in excavated burrows (and their connection to peat from some turning old coal mines into dens). So the theme is all their... but, as I said, the execution is the issue. I get representing a mountain is easier with it being a quadruped, but it just looks dirty than like a mountain. And while what they did with the eyebrows is a neat idea (with the circle on its head looks like a moon with clouds in front of it), it also unfortunately makes it look old. They tried for mountain bear god, but to some what they got was dirty old bear that fell forward and can't get up.

Mamoswine (Liked): While probably "neutral" initially, I think overtime it went into Liked territory after seeing it didn't actually change much from the Swinub family. At first it does, changing into a mammoth from a boar, but there's two (possibly three) factors in play: (1) Most obvious is both are/can be "woolly" species, (2) there were giant ancient boar species (or pig-like like the Entelodont, aka the "Hell Pigs"), and possibly (3) the first drawing reconstruction of a mammoth, which looked more like a boar than an elephant because the artist went off just the remains that were discovered (which of course didn't include the trunk as it either rotted away or was eaten by wild animals). Mamoswine may be a slight side-step in design to the Swinub family, but I argue it still keeps within the general theme.

Wyrdeer (Liked): It's an older, wiser Stantler.

Probopass (Disliked): While probably more have gone more "neutral" on it, I feel that's just from getting used to the design rather than the design making some sense over time. Now, to give credit, Probopass looks like what a Moai Statue likely did when it was made, with eyes made of white coral & obsidian and a hat-like structure called a pukao, and parts of it painted red. Note that ones with pukao were likely based on people with higher status, likely chieftains whose hair were tied in topknots the pukao are meant to replicate, so Probopass is a "chief" hence why it has the "mini-noses", they are its subjects. Alls well and good for a pretty neat design... let's ruin it by giving it a mustache for no reason! They could have done a number of things to references its magnetic properties (make the mini-noses out of metal to better explain how its controlling them), but I guess they thought with the mustache it looked a little like Mario, thought it was funny, and decided to keep it. And yes, I know about the Wooly Willy toy, I don't think that was a factor nor does it make anymore sense.

Roserade (Liked): Roselia was always presented as a suave Pokemon, so makes sense it would evolve into a Pokemon which wouldn't look out-of-place at a masquerade party.

Dusknoir (Liked): At first it would feel like Dusknoir is a big departure from Dusclops, but the thing is that Dusclops was a departure from Duskull. The family was never based on a singular ghost or spirit, and if anything Dusknoir goes backwards in development by floating around again. But it does share the main traits with its prevos: a singular big red eye, some sort of face design, and seemingly wearing a cloak/bandages.

Kingambit (Neutral): Our last Pokemon, bet you weren't expecting this jump! Yeah, due to Gen V being a point where they stopped cross gen evos until recently, really no Pokemon species that debut in Gen IV and beyond got a cross evo... except Bisharp this recent gen. Considering their slight Shogi/Chess theme, took them 13 years to complete this evolution line, but better late than never I suppose. Kingambit is an interesting design as, to reference its a leader, part of its design is that it's a throne. I think had they stopped there that would be fine, but then they went an extra odd step: they made it have beetle aesthetics. I sort of get it, it goes with the throne theme and its Signature Move, as well maybe referencing it looking like a Kaman Rider villain, but its prevos didn't have these beetle traits (unless you stretch it with their heads being kabuto helmets) so it sort of comes out of nowhere.
Alright, imma slap my opinions onto this

Crobat: Honestly liking Crobat's design less over time. The first 2 are monstrous...then Crobat reverses color scheme with a tiny mouth with bad teeth. Very bad teeth... Probably gets rejected for its poor dental health. The jaundice doesn't help
Bellossom: Hey, you missed this! Find the tidbit on it initially being darker skinned in dev interesting. Sadly final's safer green skin is meh, but the concept is decent.
PS: it has nothing underneath the skirt!
Annihilape: The best evolution of his anger concept. He's unbound! The personification of being a Grouch! All he needs is a trash can and a song number...
Politoed: ...looks like a preevo somehow. I prefer the SW97 version a lot more. Otherwise, it's the King('s Rock) of Dorks - Kevin
Hitmontop: Even worse than Politoed for looking young. Vastly prefer SW97's more monstrous version. Otherwise he looks like something a twig like me can bully
Slowking: Dignified, with a splash of a funny collar. Wonder if it was based on the anime ep Psyduck got bit on the head...still needs pants...
Magnezone: I like the UFO inspiration, some with flashing magnets. Remedies the "durr, it's only just 3 of them together". Also fixes its depth perception
Steelix: Almost perfect...but the checker teeth are dumb. But that's a minor fault. Though it isn't winning beauty contests with that smile
Blissey: Girl is fluffy and running with it! She's no longer the nurse's assistant, she IS the doctor! Complete with many harmful status moves!
Lickilicky: Suffers from Gen 4 syndrome: blatantly fat, and overdecorated for pattern. It's ugly
Rhyperior: Ok so it's Gen 4 syndrome AND has an ugly color palette. It uglier
Tangrowth: C'mon, bother to draw all vines! The fat boot feet suck
Mr. Rime: He's adorable! Everyone calling this line a pedo needs to apologize
Scizor: Scissors
Kleavor: Rock. Wait, steel beats rock in pokemon-
I like both, though Kleavor's face could be better
Electivire: Better than Elekid (yeah that's right!), though I don't like how neat the stripes are. Should be messier. The red wires are ehhh
Magmortar: Gen 4 syndrome. You hate to see it
Porygon2: Literally metaballs and subdivision, mixed with the dipping bird toy. Nice!
Porygon Z: Shame it came out before Vista. Would've been extremely meta of poor security updates. ***BLUE SCREENS***
Togekiss: I LOST MY ARMS!!!
Ambipom: On one hand, I don't like Aipom to begin with. On the other hand (yes this is intentional), the red tipped fingers in Ambi are really ugly. But I'm biased, so
Yanmega: Proto is better in not being boxy, but final is still cool. Shame it's Bug/Flying
Honchkrow: Funny enough, Gen 2 dev Murkrow WAS meant to have witch influences. Interesting to see they instead turned it into a mafia boss. Though keep it away from tasteless trilby wearing "nice guys", it doesn't deserve that trash. Too boss for that
Mismagius: Built in shade. Perfect for hot- oh wait, it's nocturnal....It's still purty!
Farigiraf: ok, now we need an even taller one...
Dudunsparce: Meh. Imagine if this was its evo instead...
Gliscor: Wings need to be connected to arms
Weavile: Till this day, people debate whether it's a cat or weasel...
Sneasler: It's a cat. Same with Trubbish
Ursulana: It's funny how this made everyone realize that the anime depiction of Ursaring being a rampaging aggressive mon is wrong. It was meant to be more reserved and sleepy, even dopey when eating
That said this design is ugly with how mud caked and fat it is
Mamoswine: Gen 4 syndrome. He's too fat and bald, give me more organic body humps and hair!
Wyrdeer: Kinda feels like a Sawsbuck winter alt instead of evo. Feel they could do more with it
Gallade: Outside blade arms, it feels a bit too basic waist down. The internet got further villified in Gardevoir being feminine sadly
Probopass: God those eyes are ugly. Should've went with the Nigel Thornberry beta one here...
Roserade: Not as bad as Tangrowth, but they should've drawn each rose. But Tuxedo mask vibes work
Dusknoir: Grovyle...how many shippers do we have?
Froslass: Why is it female exclusive? Glalie didn't even benefit from the Sp/Phy split. Ah well, it's nice
Kingambit: He can't walk. Mon became Joe Swanson. At least he looks cool
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Alright, imma slap my opinions onto this

Bellossom: Hey, you missed this! Find the tidbit on it initially being darker skinned in dev interesting. Sadly final's safer green skin is meh, but the concept is decent.
PS: it has nothing underneath the skirt!

Steelix: Almost perfect...but the checker teeth are dumb. But that's a minor fault. Though it isn't winning beauty contests with that smile

Kleavor: Rock. Wait, steel beats rock in pokemon-
I like both, though Kleavor's face could be better

Togekiss: I LOST MY ARMS!!!

Honchkrow: Funny enough, Gen 2 dev Murkrow WAS meant to have witch influences. Interesting to see they instead turned it into a mafia boss. Though keep it away from tasteless trilby wearing "nice guys", it doesn't deserve that trash. Too boss for that

Mismagius: Built in shade. Perfect for hot- oh wait, it's nocturnal....It's still purty!

Dudunsparce: Meh. Imagine if this was its evo instead...

Weavile: Till this day, people debate whether it's a cat or weasel...
Sneasler: It's a cat. Same with Trubbish

Froslass: Why is it female exclusive? Glalie didn't even benefit from the Sp/Phy split. Ah well, it's nice
I skipped over branched evolutions as many would have to diverge from the design theme of the family it was added into.

Bellossom: Why are you looking up Bellossom's skirt. :blobglare:
Just kidding. Anyway, Pokedex says its a biped though Bulbapedia notes in the anime it seemingly uses the leaves which makes up its skirt as legs. I'm going to guess we're just not supposed to think about it. Either it does have legs (probably would look like Oddish's) or it just floats (if you want to throw some pseudo-science in how, can just say its skirt leaves pushes air through it giving it lift to move the direction it wants).

Steelix: "Though it isn't winning beauty contests with that smile"
So, in the Sinnoh games Jasmine uses her Steelix, Rusty, in Contests and one of the best Contests its set up for is Beauty. Infact, in BD/SP, her Steelix has the highest Visual Evaluation score for Beauty in the Master Ranks.

Kleavor: "Wait, steel beats rock in pokemon-"
We need a Rock version of Freeze-Dry which is SE against Steel, a Steel version which is SE against Grass, and a Grass version which is SE against Rock, um, forget that last one.

Togekiss: Oh no, it lost its dinky arms it could barely do anything with for bigger wings which it can do more with (btw it still learns punching moves, not that it would want to).

Honchkrow: "Though keep it away from tasteless trilby wearing "nice guys", it doesn't deserve that trash. Too boss for that"
Let's not lie, Honchkrow would probably have a side hustle as a pimp.

Mismagius: Hides it from moonlight?

Dudunsparce: I like Orthworm fine but it's definitely better as a one off.
As I said, most fanmade Dunsparce evos looked like this.

Weavile & Sneasler: It's both a cat & weasel. Haven't we learned our lesson from the Legendary Beasts?

Froslass: Its female exclusive because the Yuki-onna are all female.
 
Last edited:
Honchkrow: "Though keep it away from tasteless trilby wearing "nice guys", it doesn't deserve that trash. Too boss for that"
Let's not lie, Honchkrow would probably have a side hustle as a pimp.
Suddenly realizes Honchkrow was introduced in the same Gen Lopunny was
:psycry:

Agree for Dunsparce, fan evos of it being a winged dragon is cooler. But like, give the thing an actual evo!

As for Bellossom, Smash Bros Melee's trophies model has it legless. Was looking at mon models that game cuz some are stupidly high poly (Heracross), or flat out CG (Lugia for Movie 2's ref model, Blastoise for a TCG card). It likely is Oddish legs for legit rep, but ghostly floating works too
 
Bellossom: Why are you looking up Bellossom's skirt. :blobglare:
Just kidding. Anyway, Pokedex says its a biped though Bulbapedia notes in the anime it seemingly uses the leaves which makes up its skirt as legs. I'm going to guess we're just not supposed to think about it. Either it does have legs (probably would look like Oddish's) or it just floats (if you want to throw some pseudo-science in how, can just say its skirt leaves pushes air through it giving it lift to move the direction it wants).
As for Bellossom, Smash Bros Melee's trophies model has it legless. Was looking at mon models that game cuz some are stupidly high poly (Heracross), or flat out CG (Lugia for Movie 2's ref model, Blastoise for a TCG card). It likely is Oddish legs for legit rep, but ghostly floating works too
Its skirt leaves are legs, and walks like a spider.
 
1. In what way do you mean that? I would say in general Dexit is a big deal, especially for long time players, BUT there are certainly aspects of Dexit people had issue with that in a bigger picture isn't, as you said, a big deal.
I will put it bluntly: I played since Gen 1, played Stadium, Colloseum and all other spin-offs in my youth. With so many Pokemon, I have never missed one of them. We have so much choice, why restrict ourselves to old Pokemon at all? Furthermore, it is always sweet when a favorite of yours returns (in my case Skarmory)

Although now that I think about it maybe Pokemon fans are to loyal and only have one favorite Mon or something. Obviously for them it is devistating.

2. While there are certainly Moves I would not have removed, there are also Moves I totally get them removing. However another aspect of this is them removing a Move due to the complexity of it but not then replacing it with a Move which fills the role most were using it for. Two examples that come to mind is Scald and Return.

Scald is a good example of how to replace a Move, Scald was too powerful with its Burn effect so instead essentially replaced it with Chilling Water that still did the main function Scald was so liked for (if not better): decreasing the Attack stat.
Return is a bad example as it was used as the go-to high powered Normal attack. They got rid of it as it was too gimmicky, dealing with a statistic which otherwise had nothing to do with battle, BUT they then never replaced it with a new high power Normal-type Move. Not all Pokemon get Slash, Body Slam or Strength, all which are generally weaker than Return. They needed something like a 100 Power, Physical Normal-type Move that most Pokemon get, and to balance it out just have it have like 5 PP; maybe as a callback to Return have it be a Move a Move Tutor will only teach to a Pokemon with high Friendship, therefore still requiring that stat being high in-game but still separate from battle mechanics.
For me personally the attacks mattered more than the mons. They are the soul of the mon, the showcase of progression and interesting gimmicks for the Pokemon itself. The mon throughout Level 1 to for example Level 36 stays the same, but what changes constantly? The moves. The stats. This is what gives Mons their feel, alongside obviously objectively seen the balance of the gameplay.

I remember being excited when Heracross learned Megahorn in Gen2. When we finally got decent bug moves with Silver Wind in Gen 3. How much better Fearow was with Drill Peck instead of Wing Attack and all stuff like that.

Now they removed things like Signal Beam. They gave each Mon unlimited coverage and all that snazz. This is what annoys me.

4. White 2 specifically? What about Black 2? Though I would agree, while I feel the story of those games is a stepdown from the original BW, for the content those games offer they're one of the best in the franchise. Excited that Chuggaaconroy has started his LP of it!
I meant speficially Black and White 2. Also the let's play is exciting thank you for sharing that. I STILL WANT TO KNOW IF HE MANAGES TO GET DROUGHT VULPIX!! Yes I know I used Capslock but that still drives me completly mad. Me and my bro wasted like 10 hours + for one.

5. Mind if I ask two things for this point?
One, what exactly about the designs of the Pokemon don't you like, point out a few examples if you don't mind (and why those aren't a problem on the ones you find decent)?
Two, you have not experienced this same feeling for other generations? Mind you, Gen V is the gen that had the most Pokemon introduced, Gens II through IV usually only brought in around a 100 new Pokemon, and Gens VI+ kept under 100 new species (not counting new forms). To put into perspective, if you disliked at least half of the Pokemon from Gen V and Gen VII, for Gen V that's about 75 Pokemon and for Gen VI that's about 35; this is because Gen VI only had 71 new species of Pokemon, meaning the amount of Pokemon you don't like from Gen V equals the amount of Pokemon that's been generally introduced each gen after V (and in comparison those gens are going to have a lower amount of Pokemon you don't like which could give the illusion you hate Gen V's design more when infact it's still a 50/50 split).
My family and me rated each Generation of Pokemon, with 5 and 4 being for favorites and 1 2 and 3 being for a "negative" feeling towards a design.

I admit taste is obviously subjective and we did this I think 3 years ago but here are the results for me personally:

PokemonGen5Rating.png


1682966396696.png


Gen 5 had the worst average followed by Gen 8 for me personally. So I hated 77 of the Mons basically. That is A LOT. And the worst part is some of the Bad 1 were for final evolutions, which tainted my experience even further.
 
Although now that I think about it maybe Pokemon fans are to loyal and only have one favorite Mon or something. Obviously for them it is devistating.
I've noticed Pokemon fans will often develop parasocial relationships with fictional species. See also people phrasing their balance opinions as "it's not fair that ______ (only physical attackers have a status that cripples them, physical Electric-types are stuck with Wild Charge while special ones get Thunderbolt, etc.)" as if these are real living beings that are being treated unjustly as opposed to tools that game developers use to craft a play experience for the players.
 
I've noticed Pokemon fans will often develop parasocial relationships with fictional species. See also people phrasing their balance opinions as "it's not fair that ______ (only physical attackers have a status that cripples them, physical Electric-types are stuck with Wild Charge while special ones get Thunderbolt, etc.)" as if these are real living beings that are being treated unjustly as opposed to tools that game developers use to craft a play experience for the players.
1683009448142.png

1683009365278.png

Sorry, couldn't not meme
I mean I can understand frustration of a "tool" just sucking many gens. GF HAS been receptive to balance changes at times (See, Tauros, Talonflame and Aegislash)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 9)

Top