Project Metagame Workshop

[IMakeNoSense]

I think the best way to solve this whole "what we even do with status moves" deal is to just exclude any status move that doesn't directly target the opponent, the premise is that being hit by a move adds the type, so there is no need to also include stuff that affects the user in a non-offensive way, also stuff that affect the field just gen confusing, Hazards, Terrains, Weather, etc. just end up making this more complicated that it needs to be, so yeah, just limit it to stuff that hits you, or we will be discussing if SR changes your type when they are set, when they deal damage or both.
It is very important that mechanics stay simple and easy to understand, so the less added rules you end with, the better.

Call it Paint Warfare or something cool, dunno.

Understandable. I am willing to concede on Status that directs to opponents if it becomes too much of a hassle; I just think that a metagame where your advantages is dependent on your playstyle is unique and unheard of. I don't think we've ever seen a meta where Dragon can be neutral on the first hit, and super effective on the second due to Dragon type being added.

However, if my argument for "defensive mons never stay peaceful" is difficult to implement, then I'm all good with simplifying it. Just- help me explain how it might work in a simpler sense. Would moves called by Status count as the attack that was called? Would moves like WoW give the user Fire type, or the opponent? Rather, if a non-directed Status is used, then does that still change your own type? Or does the directed status moves only change the opponent? If/When I change the original post, I just want to make sure there isn't any errors (as I've already proven that I can and will post).

 

[IMakeNoSense]

I wanna bring up this quote from the Other Metagames' Rules & General Info Page, on the submission process:


In general that refers to stuff like Wonder Guard in abilities that give mons' abilities, Spore on fast mons or other stuff that is ridiculously broken. Tera doesn't fit into that; it's not ridiculously overpowered, overcentralizing or anything like that. Using terminology from the Tiering Policy Framework; Tera here isn't Uncompetitive, Broken or Unhealthy - at the very least, not on a first-glance sight.

This ban would be on the much muddler waters of "interfering with the gameplay of the metagame" (an argument could be made for this sentence to mean "interferes with the [intended] gameplay of the metagame" and another whole discussion could pop up about the metagame as intended by the creator vs what it ends up being but that's neither here or there). Tera wouldn't make the tier practically unplayable like letting Wonder Guard into ability-based OMs; it slightly devaluates the "intended gameplay of the metagame" but that by no means warrants a quickban.


Banning Tera has always been a tricky, complicated and controversial subject on Smogon since the start of Gen 9. I don't think it makes sense to quickban it; if there's an argument to be made about it staying then it should not get quickbanned. It could get the first suspect test of the format and even get banned there but I doubt there's enough meat to warrant a quickban.

---------------

As an aside, the OM Tiering Guidelines should desperately be updated to say something about Tera. It's the elephant in the room of Gen 9. While I personally am against quickbanning Tera in this format I can see the concern and argument for banning Tera in type-based formats. The OM Tiering Guidelines does say

as one of its main principles but in general it seems to apply to banning individual mons rather than whatever was distributed (banning Dragonite rather than Aerilate in AAA for example) and is rather unuseful when it comes to Tera.

There should be some words on what to do in regards to Tera. Namely:

1. Is OMs whose gimmick is changing the pokemon's type get any different treatment than any other OM regarding Tera?
2. Should OMs by by default have Tera banned or not have Tera banned on the submission process?
3. How fine is quickbanning Tera in the submittion process in scenarios where it's not horribly broken?
4. How long should OMs wait from approval to suspect testing Tera? A month? Three months? Instantly?

My only issue for banning Tera isn't of how good/bad it is, but that it just makes some of the aspects of this metagame obsolete. If you terastelize a Pokemon, you cannot add or change its type after that, it's that one typing for the rest of the match. I tested this earlier too, using moves like Soak or (theoretically) ToT on a Terastelized Pokemon will fail. I imagine with this metagame, adding typings by attacks (and staying as close to vanilla mechanics as possible) won't work on a Tera Pokemon. For a game centralized on the chaos of typings changing and offenses being used to create new weaknesses, I feel as if it ruins the meta. Of course, I'm still open to try it out. But I'd personally rather have it disallowed rather than allowed. I get that it's a fun mechanic, and usually I do like it.

 

[IMakeNoSense]

Call it Paint Warfare or something cool, dunno.

Oooh! What about Type Wars for the name? Could make for some fun art, plus it's all about your offensive behaviors shaping your opponent's weaknesses. Inspired by Kaen's post.

I think it's cool but I'm flexible!

 

[DosDogs]

However, if my argument for "defensive mons never stay peaceful" is difficult to implement, then I'm all good with simplifying it. Just- help me explain how it might work in a simpler sense. Would moves called by Status count as the attack that was called? Would moves like WoW give the user Fire type, or the opponent? Rather, if a non-directed Status is used, then does that still change your own type? Or does the directed status moves only change the opponent? If/When I change the original post, I just want to make sure there isn't any errors (as I've already proven that I can and will post).

I think if we disregard non directed status moves then (1) moves that are called by like sleep talk would take the properties of the called move and (2) moves like WoW would give the mon it affected the fire type at the end of the turn.
Disregarding non-directed Status moves would mean they would not change your type, like hazards.

So the mechanic for the meta would be this:
Moves that target the opponent will give the opponent the type of the move used as a third typing.
think of how VoltTurn treats status moves, hazards and stat boosting moves don't make you switch, but toxic and taunt do.

What about Type Wars for the name

I like that name.

Also btw you can quote multiple times in a post, just highlight the part you want to quote and click reply and it will add it at the bottom of the post you are currently creating

 

[IMakeNoSense]

I think if we disregard non directed status moves then (1) moves that are called by like sleep talk would take the properties of the called move and (2) moves like WoW would give the mon it affected the fire type at the end of the turn.
Disregarding non-directed Status moves would mean they would not change your type, like hazards.

So the mechanic for the meta would be this:
Moves that target the opponent will give the opponent the type of the move used as a third typing.
think of how VoltTurn treats status moves, hazards and stat boosting moves don't make you switch, but toxic and taunt do.

I like that name.

Also btw you can quote multiple times in a post, just highlight the part you want to quote and click reply and it will add it at the bottom of the post you are currently creating

no thats too much work for my small feeble brain to comprehend lol

OK, so moves that target the opponent adds and changes the bonus type to match the move's type. Do we just disregard the "status changes self" idea?

 

[DosDogs]

no thats too much work for my small feeble brain to comprehend lol

OK, so moves that target the opponent adds and changes the bonus type to match the move's type. Do we just disregard the "status changes self" idea?

I think thats what Kaen was saying yeah

 

[IMakeNoSense]

Type Wars
(formerly aliased as Echomons)
---
Metagame premise:
Moves targeted to opponents will apply a third type based on the type of the attack used!

It's a pretty basic premise: being hit by a move, physical or special, will add a third type (correlating to the move you were hit by) at the end of the turn. If the Pokémon already has the type in question, the Pokémon will not gain a third type.

It's similar to the other type-manipulating based OMs we've had, but it can create some interesting scenarios and strategies that either ruin or enable other Pokémon. For example, if you hit a Corviknight with a Water type move, it'll then become a Flying/Steel/Water type, making it 4x weak to an upcoming Electric attack. Likewise, if a Pokémon uses Toxic on the opponent, it may need to watch out for Earthquakes in the next turn since it's now partially Poison type!

• Terastelization would interfere with the flow of the metagame, and would take longer making it work with the game rather than just not allowing it. As such, Tera Clause would stay active. This is up for debate though, since it only changes the original types.
• All usual clauses will remain active, I assume.
• More than likely, this would be OU-Based.

---

If an attack fails (ex. Last Resort), is absorbed (ex. Storm Drain), or is negated by immunity (ex. Psychic hitting Dark), the bonus type will not be placed on the opponent.

If a status move is bounced (ex. Magic Bounce), the type change will not occur on the target.
Example: Spiritomb using Will-o-Wisp on a Magic Bounce Pokemon will not make the target a Fire type.

If a status is negated (ex. Prankster), the type change will not occur on the user.
Example: Using Grafaiai's Switcheroo on Hydreigon will not change Hydreigon's third type to Dark.

If any move is protected, the move that was protected from will not be placed onto the target. If the protection is broken or bypassed (ex. Hyper Drill), then regular procedure applies. (Attack = Change Target)
Example: Slowking uses Protect, Magnezone uses Thunderbolt. It does not add Electric, regardless of speed, since Thunderbolt was protected from.

If a type is changed by a move that replaces all types in favor of a new one (ex. Soak), then even the bonus type will be changed.

If a type is added by a status move (though no such move exists in Scarlet and Violet as of making this post, ex. Forest's Curse), then the user will change their type to match the type of the move used, and the opponent will gain/replace their bonus type with the type that the move adds.

If a move is called by a move (ex. Sleep Talk), the user will change the target's bonus type to match the type of the directed attack used.
Example: Sleep Talk calls Body Press, the user of Sleep Talk will change its bonus type to Fighting. It will NOT change the target's type to Normal.

Potential bans and threats:
I imagine Gholdengo can become an issue almost immediately. It has a really convenient type combination that allows it to ignore Fighting type moves that would otherwise target its Steel type.

Great Tusk, as pointed out by The Faz, could definitely be an issue. It's Ground and Fighting types are great offensively. I would probably ban it immediately, though I'd like to see first.

Ghost and Dragon type moves are likely to be the better types in this meta, since the moves they use can set types they are super effective to. Luckily, both types have ways to be immune to these moves (Normal and Fairy respectively). On the contrary, types that resist themselves may be harder to use consecutively. This can create interesting variations to strategies, I imagine.

While not a threat or a ban, I think Levitate will serve to be popular in this metagame. Being able to negate a common offensive type is invaluable when multiple tri-combos will be weak or severely weak to Ground, and having that failsafe could allow otherwise dangerous combinations like of Fire, Electric, Rock and or Steel to have a safer time switching in.

Questions for the community:

• Is Type Wars a good name for this meta? If not, what would you name it otherwise?
• What are your thoughts on Ghost or Dragon type in relations to this metagame? How game changing is it to be weak to your own type?
• Do you think this is a hostile and inhospitable environment for defensive Pokémon?
• What other Pokémon could you see becoming a threat that I could have missed?

Critique appreciated!
---
This is a revised and updated version of an old post with the same premise.

 

[DosDogs]

Moves targeted to opponents will apply a third type based on the type of the attack used!

If a status/hazard move is bounced (ex. Magic Bounce), the type change will still occur on the user.
Example: Great Tusk using Stealth Rock on a Magic Bounce Pokemon will still make Great Tusk a Rock type. This works the same way for moves like Will-o-Wisp.

Likewise, if a Pokémon uses Toxic on the opponent, it may need to watch out for Earthquakes in the next turn since it's now partially Poison type!

Seems like the post still includes the part where using a status move changes your third type, but the mechanic line was changed to targeted and makes no mention of status moves, then your explanation also makes no mention of status, even though some status moves are considered targeted.

Great Tusk, as pointed out by The Faz, could definitely be an issue. It's Ground and Fighting types are great offensively. I would probably ban it immediately, though I'd like to see first.

I wouldn't ban any mons immediately (disregarding Ubers), there will be a lot of strong mons and its hard to discern which will be broken to start.

• What are your thoughts on Ghost or Dragon type in relations to this metagame? How game changing is it to be weak to your own type?

I feel ghosts and dragons will be very strong, but their immunitys should easily keep them from being broken. Though I could see a Dragapult ban happening, even though it doesn't get a great ghost STAB. (unless you use special pult)

• Do you think this is a hostile and inhospitable environment for defensive Pokémon?

I think defensive pokemon will be OK, mostly because the opponent needs to hit them before hindering the defensive mon with the type, meaning you have an opportunity to heal, inflict statuses, chip, set up hazards, before the type is added, then you can easily read what move the opponent is going to use and switch into a appropriate check/counter.

• Should protection moves (ex. Protect, Detect, Spiky Shield, etc.) reset bonus types?

I mean, I don't see why they would. That would be a rule that doesn't fit with the mechanic and therefore strays out of OM territory.

• Should non-direct Status moves change your own type?

Just for the sake of answering most of the questions, No. With your current mechanic line that would not fit in the rules. You would have to change it back to previous, and then we are back to the beginning of all these posts.

As previously mentioned, the post example's make little sense with your tag/mechanic because (1) non-targeted status moves should do nothing and (2) targeted status moves should change your opponents type not yours.
Otherwise looks fine overall imo.

 

[KaenSoul]

Type Wars
(formerly aliased as Echomons)
---
Metagame premise:
Moves targeted to opponents will apply a third type based on the type of the attack used!

It's a pretty basic premise: being hit by a move, physical or special, will add a third type (correlating to the move you were hit by) at the end of the turn. If the Pokémon already has the type in question, the Pokémon will not gain a third type.

It's similar to the other type-manipulating based OMs we've had, but it can create some interesting scenarios and strategies that either ruin or enable other Pokémon. For example, if you hit a Corviknight with a Water type move, it'll then become a Flying/Steel/Water type, making it 4x weak to an upcoming Electric attack. Likewise, if a Pokémon uses Toxic on the opponent, it may need to watch out for Earthquakes in the next turn since it's now partially Poison type!

• Terastelization would interfere with the flow of the metagame, and would take longer making it work with the game rather than just not allowing it. As such, Tera Clause would stay active. This is up for debate though, since it only changes the original types.
• All usual clauses will remain active, I assume.
• More than likely, this would be OU-Based.

---

If an attack fails (ex. Last Resort), is absorbed (ex. Storm Drain), or is negated by immunity (ex. Psychic hitting Dark), the bonus type will not be placed on the opponent.

If a status/hazard move is bounced (ex. Magic Bounce), the type change will still occur on the user.
Example: Great Tusk using Stealth Rock on a Magic Bounce Pokemon will still make Great Tusk a Rock type. This works the same way for moves like Will-o-Wisp.

If a status is negated (ex. Prankster), the type change will not occur on the user.
Example: Using Grafaiai's Switcheroo on Hydreigon will not change Grafaiai's third type to Dark.

If any move is protected, the move that was protected from will not be placed onto the target. If the protection is broken or bypassed (ex. Hyper Drill), then regular procedure applies. (Attack = Change Target)
Example: Slowking uses Protect, Magnezone uses Thunderbolt. It does not add Electric, regardless of speed, since Thunderbolt was protected from.

If a type is changed by a move that replaces all types in favor of a new one (ex. Soak), then even the bonus type will be changed.

If a type is added by a status move (though no such move exists in Scarlet and Violet as of making this post, ex. Forest's Curse), then the user will change their type to match the type of the move used, and the opponent will gain/replace their bonus type with the type that the move adds.

If a move is called by a move (ex. Sleep Talk), the user will change it's bonus type to match the type of the move used, regardless of the move called.
Example: Sleep Talk calls Body Press, the user of Sleep Talk will change its bonus type to Normal. It will NOT change the target's type to Fighting.

Potential bans and threats:
I imagine Gholdengo can become an issue almost immediately. It has a really convenient type combination that allows it to ignore Fighting type moves that would otherwise target its Steel type.

Great Tusk, as pointed out by The Faz, could definitely be an issue. It's Ground and Fighting types are great offensively. I would probably ban it immediately, though I'd like to see first.

Ghost and Dragon type moves are likely to be the better types in this meta, since the moves they use can set types they are super effective to. Luckily, both types have ways to be immune to these moves (Normal and Fairy respectively). On the contrary, types that resist themselves may be harder to use consecutively. This can create interesting variations to strategies, I imagine.

While not a threat or a ban, I think Levitate will serve to be popular in this metagame. Being able to negate a common offensive type is invaluable when multiple tri-combos will be weak or severely weak to Ground, and having that failsafe could allow otherwise dangerous combinations like of Fire, Electric, Rock and or Steel to have a safer time switching in.

Questions for the community:

• Is Type Wars a good name for this meta? If not, what would you name it otherwise?
• What are your thoughts on Ghost or Dragon type in relations to this metagame? How game changing is it to be weak to your own type?
• Do you think this is a hostile and inhospitable environment for defensive Pokémon?
• Should non-direct Status moves change your own type?
• Should protection moves (ex. Protect, Detect, Spiky Shield, etc.) reset bonus types?
• What other Pokémon could you see becoming a threat that I could have missed?

Critique appreciated!
---
This is a revised and updated version of an old post with the same premise.

It's a pretty basic premise: being hit by a move, physical or special, will add a third type (correlating to the move you were hit by) at the end of the turn. If the Pokémon already has the type in question, the Pokémon will not gain a third type.

This doesn't need to mention the category, but either way you excluded status moves and that makes the post contradict itself later on. Also, it would be better if the change was upon being hit instead of the end of the turn.

If a status/hazard move is bounced (ex. Magic Bounce), the type change will still occur on the user.
Example: Great Tusk using Stealth Rock on a Magic Bounce Pokemon will still make Great Tusk a Rock type. This works the same way for moves like Will-o-Wisp.

Entry hazards also don't target the pokemon, they shouldnt be part of the mechanic.

If a status is negated (ex. Prankster), the type change will not occur on the user.
Example: Using Grafaiai's Switcheroo on Hydreigon will not change Grafaiai's third type to Dark.

It should fail to change Hydreigon's type.

If a move is called by a move (ex. Sleep Talk), the user will change it's bonus type to match the type of the move used, regardless of the move called.
Example: Sleep Talk calls Body Press, the user of Sleep Talk will change its bonus type to Normal. It will NOT change the target's type to Fighting.

This would be the other way around.


Either way, my main concern of this format is that it may not be popular down the line, type change formats have not been that popular this gen, and this one has very little impact on teambuilder and just thinking of Ghost and Dragons in general make me fear it will have some serious balancing problems.

 

[IMakeNoSense]

Seems like the post still includes the part where using a status move changes your third type, but the mechanic line was changed to targeted and makes no mention of status moves, then your explanation also makes no mention of status, even though some status moves are considered targeted.

I wouldn't ban any mons immediately (disregarding Ubers), there will be a lot of strong mons and its hard to discern which will be broken to start.

I feel ghosts and dragons will be very strong, but their immunitys should easily keep them from being broken. Though I could see a Dragapult ban happening, even though it doesn't get a great ghost STAB. (unless you use special pult)

I think defensive pokemon will be OK, mostly because the opponent needs to hit them before hindering the defensive mon with the type, meaning you have an opportunity to heal, inflict statuses, chip, set up hazards, before the type is added, then you can easily read what move the opponent is going to use and switch into a appropriate check/counter.

I mean, I don't see why they would. That would be a rule that doesn't fit with the mechanic and therefore strays out of OM territory.

Just for the sake of answering most of the questions, No. With your current mechanic line that would not fit in the rules. You would have to change it back to previous, and then we are back to the beginning of all these posts.

As previously mentioned, the post example's make little sense with your tag/mechanic because (1) non-targeted status moves should do nothing and (2) targeted status moves should change your opponents type not yours.
Otherwise looks fine overall imo.

Seems like the post still includes the part where using a status move changes your third type, but the mechanic line was changed to targeted and makes no mention of status moves, then your explanation also makes no mention of status, even though some status moves are considered targeted.

I wouldn't ban any mons immediately (disregarding Ubers), there will be a lot of strong mons and its hard to discern which will be broken to start.

I feel ghosts and dragons will be very strong, but their immunitys should easily keep them from being broken. Though I could see a Dragapult ban happening, even though it doesn't get a great ghost STAB. (unless you use special pult)

I think defensive pokemon will be OK, mostly because the opponent needs to hit them before hindering the defensive mon with the type, meaning you have an opportunity to heal, inflict statuses, chip, set up hazards, before the type is added, then you can easily read what move the opponent is going to use and switch into a appropriate check/counter.

I mean, I don't see why they would. That would be a rule that doesn't fit with the mechanic and therefore strays out of OM territory.

Just for the sake of answering most of the questions, No. With your current mechanic line that would not fit in the rules. You would have to change it back to previous, and then we are back to the beginning of all these posts.

As previously mentioned, the post example's make little sense with your tag/mechanic because (1) non-targeted status moves should do nothing and (2) targeted status moves should change your opponents type not yours.
Otherwise looks fine overall imo.

Fixed the errors; the Magic Bounce bit I *swear* I changed but I didn't.

The question about "status changing self" was just in case someone else was intrigued by that.

 

[IMakeNoSense]

This would be the other way around.

I got confused because I had tested this with a Protean pokemon who used Sleep Talk and it became Normal type, so I was so sure that the move they call would be Normal type as well.

Nonsensical.

Fixed.

 

[Blastfury0614]

Back To Square One
View attachment 518264​

Metagame premise:
In this OU based metagame, every Move, Held Item, Ability and Pokémon's base stats will work like they did in their debut generation. Raichu has 100 base Speed instead of 110, Blizzard has 120 BP and 90% acc, Protean activates for every move used, etc.

Details:

• Every Gen 1 Pokémon will have SpA and SpD stats equal to their Special Stat in RBY (Ex: Charizard has 85 SpA and SpD, Gengar has 130 SpA and SpD, etc.);​
• Any move that affected Special in Gen 1 (ie Psychic and Amnesia) will now affect SpA and SpD at the same time (meaning Amnesia is a double Calm Mind, but Cosmic Power will still never raise SpA, since it didn't debut in Gen 1);​
• Status conditions still work as normal (So no super OP Freeze and no Electric type getting Paralysed);​
• Every Pokémon's movepool and Ability options will remain the same (otherwise early Gen Pokémon would suck);​
• Moves introduced prior to Gen 4 will have their original type-dependent categories (Ice Punch is Special, Hyper Voice is Physical, etc.).​

Potential Rules:
Smogon Wide Clauses; Invunerabilty clause (For Dig and Fly glitch)

The Winners (Potenital bans and threats)

Cloyster @ White Herb
Ability: Overcoat
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Blizzard
- Tera Blast
- Hydro Pump
Icicle Spear Sucks now, but Cloyster now has a solid 85 SpD, meaning that setting up is much easier now. Plus Blizzard is a good replacement.

/

/

/

Do you remember that weather was so broken in Gen 5 that weather abilities were nerfed to not be permanent? Well forget about that, 'cause the chaos is back! Also... Hail Yeah! Because Hail is also back and Snow is now only settable via Chlilling Reception and Snowscape and its pretty much useless anyways.

Yeah... let's talk about the Great Tusk on the room: Amnesia. Now this move raises SpA and SpD by two stages, basically like a double Calm Mind. Scream Tail and Slowking in particular also have Stored Power to get past Unaware Pokémon.

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Tera Blast
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind
Chansey has its precious 105 SpA back. Calm Mind sets probably will be quite hard to stop thanks to its massive bulk and recovery.

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute/ Psychic Fangs
Dragapult has Physical Shadow Ball now... is this really getting banned from another OM?

Protean and Libero, like I mentioned earlier, now work like they did prior to being nerfed. Time to see who is getting banned first.

The Losers :'(

Forget about Dual Screens, they only affect the user now. Aurora Veil still works jut fine though.

While Dragapult may have loved that Shadow Ball is Physical now, I wouldn't say the same about other, special attacking Ghost types. Now the only half decent, non signature Special Ghost moves are Hex and Ominous Wind, the latter not even being in the game...

Unlike Cloyster, Breloom hates losing Bullet Seed, making Technician sets effectively useless now. At least it can still run Poison Heal ig.

Losing Stabs to the lazy early gen Physical-Special Split is never fun. For example, Crunch, Knock Off (which now only has 20bp anyways), Dragon Claw and Outrage (now only 90bp) are all special now. Night Slash and Dragon Rush aren't nearly as good.

Weak Armor now only raises speed by one stage.

Questions for the community:

• How should the type chart be handled? Should it be untouched or should all types work like they did in their debut too?

If there is something that I may be missing, just let me know please!

 

[KaenSoul]

Back To Square One
View attachment 518264​

Metagame premise:
In this OU based metagame, every Move, Held Item, Ability and Pokémon's base stats will work like they did in their debut generation. Raichu has 100 base Speed instead of 110, Blizzard has 120 BP and 90% acc, Protean activates for every move used, etc.

Details:

• Every Gen 1 Pokémon will have SpA and SpD stats equal to their Special Stat in RBY (Ex: Charizard has 85 SpA and SpD, Gengar has 130 SpA and SpD, etc.);​
• Any move that affected Special in Gen 1 (ie Psychic and Amnesia) will now affect SpA and SpD at the same time (meaning Amnesia is a double Calm Mind, but Cosmic Power will still never raise SpA, since it didn't debut in Gen 1);​
• Status conditions still work as normal (So no super OP Freeze and no Electric type getting Paralysed);​
• Every Pokémon's movepool and Ability options will remain the same (otherwise early Gen Pokémon would suck);​
• Moves introduced prior to Gen 4 will have their original type-dependent categories (Ice Punch is Special, Hyper Voice is Physical, etc.).​

Potential Rules:
Smogon Wide Clauses; Invunerabilty clause (For Dig and Fly glitch)

The Winners (Potenital bans and threats)

Cloyster @ White Herb
Ability: Overcoat
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Blizzard
- Tera Blast
- Hydro Pump
Icicle Spear Sucks now, but Cloyster now has a solid 85 SpD, meaning that setting up is much easier now. Plus Blizzard is a good replacement.

/

/

/

Do you remember that weather was so broken in Gen 5 that weather abilities were nerfed to not be permanent? Well forget about that, 'cause the chaos is back! Also... Hail Yeah! Because Hail is also back and Snow is now only settable via Chlilling Reception and Snowscape and its pretty much useless anyways.

Yeah... let's talk about the Great Tusk on the room: Amnesia. Now this move raises SpA and SpD by two stages, basically like a double Calm Mind. Scream Tail and Slowking in particular also have Stored Power to get past Unaware Pokémon.

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Tera Blast
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind
Chansey has its precious 105 SpA back. Calm Mind sets probably will be quite hard to stop thanks to its massive bulk and recovery.

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute/ Psychic Fangs
Dragapult has Physical Shadow Ball now... is this really getting banned from another OM?

Protean and Libero, like I mentioned earlier, now work like they did prior to being nerfed. Time to see who is getting banned first.

The Losers :'(

Forget about Dual Screens, they only affect the user now. Aurora Veil still works jut fine though.

While Dragapult may have loved that Shadow Ball is Physical now, I wouldn't say the same about other, special attacking Ghost types. Now the only half decent, non signature Special Ghost moves are Hex and Ominous Wind, the latter not even being in the game...

Unlike Cloyster, Breloom hates losing Bullet Seed, making Technician sets effectively useless now. At least it can still run Poison Heal ig.

Losing Stabs to the lazy early gen Physical-Special Split is never fun. For example, Crunch, Knock Off (which now only has 20bp anyways), Dragon Claw and Outrage (now only 90bp) are all special now. Night Slash and Dragon Rush aren't nearly as good.

Weak Armor now only raises speed by one stage.

Questions for the community:

• How should the type chart be handled? Should it be untouched or should all types work like they did in their debut too?

If there is something that I may be missing, just let me know please!

This is too complex and subjective for an OM, I can only imagine this being possible as a Solomod, you can check those here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/solomods.743/

 

[Blastfury0614]

This is too complex and subjective for an OM, I can only imagine this being possible as a Solomod, you can check those here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/solomods.743/

Ok, I´ll check that out

 

[cat]

Re-Powered (idk tbh)​

Metagame premise:
All neutral-priority damaging moves that originally had a fixed base power have their base power adjusted to 90. (unaffected moves at the bottom of the post)

Initial Banlist:

• Pokemon: Annihilape, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Espathra, Flutter Mane, Houndstone, Koraidon, Miraidon, Palafin
• Moves: All Multi-Hit moves, All Pivot Moves, Acid Spray, Acrobatics, Baton Pass, Fury Cutter, Hex, Knock Off, Payback, Power Trip, Rollout, Stored Power, Weather Ball
• Items: King's Rock
• Clauses: Standard OMs, Terastral Clause

Potential bans and threats:

• Draining Moves -With an increase in base power, this gives potential users like Hatterene and Iron Valiant better longevity to allow them to continue their sweep.
• Moves with a ≥50% chance to cause a secondary effect -Moves such as and Flame Charge are incredible setup options that can enable a wide variety of users like Iron Moth and Cinderace.
• Trapping Moves - With a higher BP, constant damage over time, trapping factor and good users in Toxapex, Trapping Moves have the potential to be unhealthy for the meta.
• Garganacl -Salt Cure becomes extremely spammable and has the stats, movepool, and setup in Curse to act as a bulky sweeper.

Increased Viability:

• Great Tusk -Great Tusk has a lot of strong options, such as Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. Close Combat and Headlong Rush's nerf annoys it however.
• Meowscarada -Although it loses Knock Off and Sucker Punch, Flower Trick and Night Slash are buffed, with their higher crit ratios meaning they have naturally high BPs. With Protean, it also gets access to strong STABs like Thunder Punch and Brick Break.

Decreased Viability:

• Scizor -With Technician being useless, and U-Turn being banned, Scizor has lost its niche entirely.
• Azumarill -Without Aqua Jet, it suffers greatly from its base 50 Speed and having no way to outspeed targets.
• Iron Bundle -A nerfed Hydro Pump as well as the removal of its pivoting weakens Iron Bundle's ability to break Offense as easily.

Questions for the community:

• Is 90 BP too low or too high?
• What other potential threats did I miss out on?
• Is Iron Bundle really worth freeing?

unaffected moves

Moves unaffected because they have increased priority
Accelerock
Aqua Jet
Bullet Punch
Extreme Speed
Fake Out
Feint
First Impression
Ice Shard
Jet Punch
Mach Punch
Quick Attack
Shadow Sneak
Sucker Punch
Vacuum Wave
Water Shuriken

Moves unaffected because they have decreased priority
Avalanche
Circle Throw
Dragon Tail
Focus Punch

Moves unaffected because their BP is variable
Beat Up
Dragon Energy
Electro Ball
Eruption
Flail
Fling
Grass Knot
Gyro Ball
Heat Crash
Heavy Slam
Low Kick
Power Trip
Present
Reversal
Stored Power
Water Spout

Moves unaffected because they ignore the normal damage formula
Super Fang
Counter
Mirror Coat
Metal Burst
Seismic Toss
Night Shade
Endeavor
Final Gambit
Ruination
Comeuppance

 

[zuki_]

Re-Powered (idk tbh)​

Metagame premise:
All damaging moves that originally had a fixed base power have their base power adjusted to 90.

Initial Banlist:

• Pokemon: Annihilape, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Espathra, Flutter Mane, Houndstone, Koraidon, Miraidon, Palafin
• Moves: All Multi-Hit moves, All Priority Moves except First Impression and Extreme Speed, All Pivot Moves
• Clauses: Standard OMs, Terastral Clause

Potential bans and threats:

• Draining Moves -With an increase in base power, this gives potential users like Hatterene and Iron Valiant better longevity to allow them to continue their sweep.
• Moves that increase in power if a certain requirement is met -While situational, moves like Payback and Avalanche have the potential to have 180 base power, especially on Bulky users like Avalugg and Ting-Lu.
• Moves with a ≥50% chance to cause a secondary effect -Moves such as Acid Spray and Flame Charge are incredible setup options that can enable a wide variety of users like Iron Moth and Cinderace.
• Garganacl -Salt Cure becomes extremely spammable and has the stats, movepool, and setup in Curse to act as a bulky sweeper.

Increased Viability:

• Great Tusk -Great Tusk has a lot of strong options, such as Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. Close Combat and Headlong Rush's nerf annoys it however.
• Meowscarada -Its natural STABs have a sudden jump in power, usually having an effective base power of 135 without counting STAB. With Protean, however, it also gets access to strong STABs like Thunder Punch and Brick Break.

Decreased Viability:

• Scizor -With Technician being useless, and U-Turn being banned, Scizor has lost its niche entirely.
• Azumarill -Without Aqua Jet, it suffers greatly from its base 50 Speed and having no way to outspeed targets.
• Iron Bundle -A nerfed Hydro Pump as well as the removal of its pivoting weakens Iron Bundle's ability to break Offense as easily.

Questions for the community:

• Is 90 BP too low or too high?
• What other potential threats did I miss out on?
• Is Iron Bundle really worth freeing?

This seems fun just wanted to add you seem to have forgot to add stored power and power trip to the starting ban list.
EDIT adding on to my post rather then double posting.

some pokemon that benefit from this change
Av pex likes infestation and acid spray doing real damage and being able to run chilling water over surf without a damage draw back
Toxapex @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Chilling Water
- Icy Wind
- Infestation
- Acid Spray

Dragon dance pult can use real ghost stab with astonish
Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Astonish
- Substitute


Iron Valiant is odd it loses big close combat damage but gains fairy stab, the broken knock off with it being 135bp and a 90bp psych move to hit Amoonguss(assuming that it will still be good).
+2 252 Atk Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 460-542 (106.4 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy / choice band
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Spirit Break
- Swords Dance / knock off
- Psycho Cut / knock off

Gren likes being able to use all of its nice low bp moves like mud slap to counter would be checks like av pex.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Mud Shot vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 159-190 (52.4 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Chilling Water
- Mud-Slap
- Icy Wind
- Dark Pulse

Some moves that look broken
1. knock off 135bp and removes item.
2. Venoshock/hex 180bp on statused target(venoshock requires posion).
3. Rollout doubles in power with use kinda goes crazy with 90 base bp.
4. furry cutter rollout but with out the locked in downside but bug type.
5. Acrobatics 90bp with item and 180 without, completely broken.

 

[cat]

This seems fun just wanted to add you seem to have forgot to add stored power and power trip to the starting ban list.

oh yeah i forgot to add that, that was on my mind

 

[unfuuny]

Re-Powered (idk tbh)​

Metagame premise:
All damaging moves that originally had a fixed base power have their base power adjusted to 90.

Initial Banlist:

• Pokemon: Annihilape, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Espathra, Flutter Mane, Houndstone, Koraidon, Miraidon, Palafin
• Moves: All Multi-Hit moves, All Priority Moves except First Impression and Extreme Speed, All Pivot Moves, Stored Power, Power Trip
• Clauses: Standard OMs, Terastral Clause

Potential bans and threats:

• Draining Moves -With an increase in base power, this gives potential users like Hatterene and Iron Valiant better longevity to allow them to continue their sweep.
• Moves that increase in power if a certain requirement is met -While situational, moves like Payback and Avalanche have the potential to have 180 base power, especially on Bulky users like Avalugg and Ting-Lu.
• Moves with a ≥50% chance to cause a secondary effect -Moves such as Acid Spray and Flame Charge are incredible setup options that can enable a wide variety of users like Iron Moth and Cinderace.
• Garganacl -Salt Cure becomes extremely spammable and has the stats, movepool, and setup in Curse to act as a bulky sweeper.

Increased Viability:

• Great Tusk -Great Tusk has a lot of strong options, such as Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. Close Combat and Headlong Rush's nerf annoys it however.
• Meowscarada -Its natural STABs have a sudden jump in power, usually having an effective base power of 135 without counting STAB. With Protean, however, it also gets access to strong STABs like Thunder Punch and Brick Break.

Decreased Viability:

• Scizor -With Technician being useless, and U-Turn being banned, Scizor has lost its niche entirely.
• Azumarill -Without Aqua Jet, it suffers greatly from its base 50 Speed and having no way to outspeed targets.
• Iron Bundle -A nerfed Hydro Pump as well as the removal of its pivoting weakens Iron Bundle's ability to break Offense as easily.

Questions for the community:

• Is 90 BP too low or too high?
• What other potential threats did I miss out on?
• Is Iron Bundle really worth freeing?

moves that can go past doubling like rollout and ice ball maybe are a bit broken

 

[cat]

Some moves that look broken
1. knock off 135bp and removes item.
2. Venoshock/hex 180bp on statused target(venoshock requires posion).
3. Rollout doubles in power with use kinda goes crazy with 90 base bp.
4. furry cutter rollout but with out the locked in downside but bug type.

moves that can go past doubling like rollout and ice ball maybe are a bit broken

yeah, edited that and a few more stuff

 

[KaenSoul]

Re-Powered (idk tbh)​

Metagame premise:
All damaging moves that originally had a fixed base power have their base power adjusted to 90.

Initial Banlist:

• Pokemon: Annihilape, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Espathra, Flutter Mane, Houndstone, Koraidon, Miraidon, Palafin
• Moves: All Multi-Hit moves, All Priority Moves except First Impression and Extreme Speed, All Pivot Moves, Acid Spray, Acrobatics, Fury Cutter, Hex, Knock Off, Payback, Rollout, Weather Ball
• Items: King's Rock
• Clauses: Standard OMs, Terastral Clause

Potential bans and threats:

• Draining Moves -With an increase in base power, this gives potential users like Hatterene and Iron Valiant better longevity to allow them to continue their sweep.
• Moves with a ≥50% chance to cause a secondary effect -Moves such as Acid Spray and Flame Charge are incredible setup options that can enable a wide variety of users like Iron Moth and Cinderace.
• Garganacl -Salt Cure becomes extremely spammable and has the stats, movepool, and setup in Curse to act as a bulky sweeper.

Increased Viability:

• Great Tusk -Great Tusk has a lot of strong options, such as Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. Close Combat and Headlong Rush's nerf annoys it however.
• Meowscarada -Although it loses Knock Off and Sucker Punch, Flower Trick and Night Slash are buffed, with their higher crit ratios meaning they have naturally high BPs. With Protean, it also gets access to strong STABs like Thunder Punch and Brick Break.

Decreased Viability:

• Scizor -With Technician being useless, and U-Turn being banned, Scizor has lost its niche entirely.
• Azumarill -Without Aqua Jet, it suffers greatly from its base 50 Speed and having no way to outspeed targets.
• Iron Bundle -A nerfed Hydro Pump as well as the removal of its pivoting weakens Iron Bundle's ability to break Offense as easily.

Questions for the community:

• Is 90 BP too low or too high?
• What other potential threats did I miss out on?
• Is Iron Bundle really worth freeing?

I feel like the need to ban most priority moves will have a very bad impact for most offensive archetypes that may cause some big balancing issues down the line, but I guess there isn't an alternative. Maybe if you change the rule to "All offensive moves with neutral priority become 90 BP" or something, not sure if the rest of the staff would like that but it sounds easier to balance.
Honestly, I don't like this idea but that could change.

 

[HiZo]

Re-Powered (idk tbh)​

Metagame premise:
All damaging moves that originally had a fixed base power have their base power adjusted to 90.

Initial Banlist:

• Pokemon: Annihilape, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Espathra, Flutter Mane, Houndstone, Koraidon, Miraidon, Palafin
• Moves: All Multi-Hit moves, All Priority Moves except First Impression and Extreme Speed, All Pivot Moves, Acid Spray, Acrobatics, Fury Cutter, Hex, Knock Off, Payback, Rollout, Weather Ball
• Items: King's Rock
• Clauses: Standard OMs, Terastral Clause

Potential bans and threats:

• Draining Moves -With an increase in base power, this gives potential users like Hatterene and Iron Valiant better longevity to allow them to continue their sweep.
• Moves with a ≥50% chance to cause a secondary effect -Moves such as Acid Spray and Flame Charge are incredible setup options that can enable a wide variety of users like Iron Moth and Cinderace.
• Garganacl -Salt Cure becomes extremely spammable and has the stats, movepool, and setup in Curse to act as a bulky sweeper.

Increased Viability:

• Great Tusk -Great Tusk has a lot of strong options, such as Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. Close Combat and Headlong Rush's nerf annoys it however.
• Meowscarada -Although it loses Knock Off and Sucker Punch, Flower Trick and Night Slash are buffed, with their higher crit ratios meaning they have naturally high BPs. With Protean, it also gets access to strong STABs like Thunder Punch and Brick Break.

Decreased Viability:

• Scizor -With Technician being useless, and U-Turn being banned, Scizor has lost its niche entirely.
• Azumarill -Without Aqua Jet, it suffers greatly from its base 50 Speed and having no way to outspeed targets.
• Iron Bundle -A nerfed Hydro Pump as well as the removal of its pivoting weakens Iron Bundle's ability to break Offense as easily.

Questions for the community:

• Is 90 BP too low or too high?
• What other potential threats did I miss out on?
• Is Iron Bundle really worth freeing?

Since Power trip and Stored power start at 90 bp, now at 1 calm mind you end up at 130 (imagine getting 3 calm minds off?). It looks like flittle is going to have a ball despite having crummy stats. Hatterene however seems. more unwallable at that point. Probably best to ban the move.

 

[Lectrys]

Re-Powered (idk tbh)​

Metagame premise:
All damaging moves that originally had a fixed base power have their base power adjusted to 90.

Initial Banlist:

• Pokemon: Annihilape, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Espathra, Flutter Mane, Houndstone, Koraidon, Miraidon, Palafin
• Moves: All Multi-Hit moves, All Priority Moves except First Impression and Extreme Speed, All Pivot Moves, Acid Spray, Acrobatics, Fury Cutter, Hex, Knock Off, Payback, Rollout, Weather Ball
• Items: King's Rock
• Clauses: Standard OMs, Terastral Clause

Potential bans and threats:

• Draining Moves -With an increase in base power, this gives potential users like Hatterene and Iron Valiant better longevity to allow them to continue their sweep.
• Moves with a ≥50% chance to cause a secondary effect -Moves such as Acid Spray and Flame Charge are incredible setup options that can enable a wide variety of users like Iron Moth and Cinderace.
• Garganacl -Salt Cure becomes extremely spammable and has the stats, movepool, and setup in Curse to act as a bulky sweeper.

Increased Viability:

• Great Tusk -Great Tusk has a lot of strong options, such as Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. Close Combat and Headlong Rush's nerf annoys it however.
• Meowscarada -Although it loses Knock Off and Sucker Punch, Flower Trick and Night Slash are buffed, with their higher crit ratios meaning they have naturally high BPs. With Protean, it also gets access to strong STABs like Thunder Punch and Brick Break.

Decreased Viability:

• Scizor -With Technician being useless, and U-Turn being banned, Scizor has lost its niche entirely.
• Azumarill -Without Aqua Jet, it suffers greatly from its base 50 Speed and having no way to outspeed targets.
• Iron Bundle -A nerfed Hydro Pump as well as the removal of its pivoting weakens Iron Bundle's ability to break Offense as easily.

Questions for the community:

• Is 90 BP too low or too high?
• What other potential threats did I miss out on?
• Is Iron Bundle really worth freeing?

The 100-BP version of this was an OM in Gens 6-7: Move Equality. Bizarrely, Move Equality indeed used to set moves to 90 BP in Gen 6.

As a result, I highly recommend re-submitting the nearly identical but refined Move Equality instead.

(Partial trapping moves seem kinda busted here, with mons like Hydreigon, Ting-Lu, and Garchomp all wanting to use them if they become 100 BP. For some reason, they were neither banned nor nerfed in Gen 7 Move Equality.)

 

[cat]

I feel like the need to ban most priority moves will have a very bad impact for most offensive archetypes that may cause some big balancing issues down the line, but I guess there isn't an alternative. Maybe if you change the rule to "All offensive moves with neutral priority become 90 BP" or something, not sure if the rest of the staff would like that but it sounds easier to balance.

thats one approach to it, ill consider it to be the best option right now and ill implement that. as such, palafin regains jet punch and will be banned.

Since Power trip and Stored power start at 90 bp, now at 1 calm mind you end up at 130 (imagine getting 3 calm minds off?). It looks like flittle is going to have a ball despite having crummy stats. Hatterene however seems. more unwallable at that point. Probably best to ban the move.

accidentally deleted it, mb

The 100-BP version of this was an OM in Gens 6-7: Move Equality. Bizarrely, Move Equality indeed used to set moves to 90 BP in Gen 6.

As a result, I highly recommend re-submitting the nearly identical but refined Move Equality instead.

(Partial trapping moves seem kinda busted here, with mons like Hydreigon, Ting-Lu, and Garchomp all wanting to use them if they become 100 BP. For some reason, they were neither banned nor nerfed in Gen 7 Move Equality.)

you said what now

ill adjust the move bans/restrictions based around the original restrictions

 

[FakeFan0]

Power Ceiling
(really can't think of anything good for a name)​

Metagame Premise:
Moves that boost stats lose those effects!
This means that a status move that only boosts a stat fails if used(or is just banned, whatever's easier), and moves with raised stats as an effect keep the rest of the move the same. Abilities and items that boost stats are unaffected, unless they actively increase a stat stage.
Examples:
Quiver Dance and Dragon Dance would not work at all
Flame Charge, Fiery Dance, and Ancient Power would be incapable of boosting the stat, but would still do damage.
Guts and Quick Feet would still boost the Pokemon's stats, since they multiply the stat by a certain amount. However, Speed Boost and Moxie would not boost, since they explicitly raise the stat by 1 stage.

Initial Banlist:
Besides the standard Ubers bans, I don't think many other mons would get banned for a while in this meta. Actually, some Ubers mons might find themselves unbanned due to the nature of the meta.
The biggest example of this is Espathra. This mon was so unbelievably busted since it could boost speed and special attack and easily sweep. Now, it has no possible way to boost a stat, and its most useful ability would be Frisk.
However, the rest of Ubers probably would be better off staying there.

Potential Bans and Threats:
The key players here would fall into 2 categories: Unstoppable Forces and Immovable Objects
Unstoppable Forces
This would include a few different kinds of threats, namely mons with super high attacking stats(Iron Moth, Baxcalibur, Roaring Moon, Kingambit) that can wallbreak without boosting, other boosters(Choice Items, Guts, Huge/Pure Power) which don't have the same potential, but would have another leg up on the high stats, since a raised in-game stat is leagues better, and BP boosted moves, and their enablers(facade, sharpness, hex, venoshock, technician(?), Kingambit again) since bp is really the only way to increase your damage. Also, with HOME dropping uhhh... TODAY?! guts ursaluna will be one of the most potent wallbreakers.

Immovable Objects
The main things here are the main damage sponges available right now. Garganacl would prove a massive issue to me, as status might be the only way to chip down pokemon. Clodsire will be a curious case, since it has no reason to run unaware anymore, so water absorb is a very good fallback. The main defensive utility of pokemon will be stat lowering. Intimidate, burns, paralysis, chilling water, and mystical fire all seem like they will also run rampant, as well as recovery moves. Overall, without bans, there will be an EXTREME abundance of damage sponge/bulky offense/stall teams in this meta, but this will also allow some yet unsung heroes to rise again.

Big Winners:
As mentioned before, some massive winners are Ursaluna, which will have more ability to switch in and immense wallbreaking capability, Kingambit, who with Supreme Overlord and a versatile movepool can offer good sweeping potential, Garganacl, who soaks up damage and salt cures, with not much wallbreakers to beat it, and Clodsire, which basically does the same thing. Honorable mentions include Toxapex, which has an extra moveslot for not running haze, and Blissey, which does Blissey things better now.

Big Losers:
Do you have a pokemon that relies on a setup move to do things? TOO BAD! Ddancers, Qdancers, Sdancers, Bdrummers, all can't do that anymore. Espathra isn't in an awful spot, since its utility with Lumina Crash is improved. Azumarill is now completely walled by Clodsire, so Medicham will rise in popularity(maybe). Maushold was never amazingly popular, but now tidy up only removes hazards(and subs), so it will reallybarely have a sort-of niche for that. Gholdengo might drop a bit, since it can't re-boost with nasty plot after a Make It Rain. Unaware is the big one, since it's just fundamentally worse, now that it only ignores stat drops, and most unaware Pokemon(hi DonBozo) don't really have another good ability to use.

Questions for the Community:
Is there any better name for this?(please help I'm so uncreative with names)

Would a protosynthesis boost be looped in with the intrepid sword category or the guts category? For me it seems like it is more like guts, but it might be more closely programmed with stat-stage raising abils.

Should all stat stage changes be completely removed? This would mean a whole different meta and could be worth trying, but for now I feel just raises should be removed.

If stat stage drops are also removed, how would balancing be different?

Is this too restrictive of a format? Also, since I was too lazy to fully check, has this idea been brought up before, and how can I improve it?

BTW, Contrary is a weird thing, i'm airing on the side of disable any boosts from contrary, but there might be something easier. Honestly, it could just be banned but please lmk what your opinions are.

 

[KaenSoul]

Power Ceiling
(really can't think of anything good for a name)​

Metagame Premise:
Moves that boost stats lose those effects!
This means that a status move that only boosts a stat fails if used(or is just banned, whatever's easier), and moves with raised stats as an effect keep the rest of the move the same. Abilities and items that boost stats are unaffected, unless they actively increase a stat stage.
Examples:
Quiver Dance and Dragon Dance would not work at all
Flame Charge, Fiery Dance, and Ancient Power would be incapable of boosting the stat, but would still do damage.
Guts and Quick Feet would still boost the Pokemon's stats, since they multiply the stat by a certain amount. However, Speed Boost and Moxie would not boost, since they explicitly raise the stat by 1 stage.

Initial Banlist:
Besides the standard Ubers bans, I don't think many other mons would get banned for a while in this meta. Actually, some Ubers mons might find themselves unbanned due to the nature of the meta.
The biggest example of this is Espathra. This mon was so unbelievably busted since it could boost speed and special attack and easily sweep. Now, it has no possible way to boost a stat, and its most useful ability would be Frisk.
However, the rest of Ubers probably would be better off staying there.

Potential Bans and Threats:
The key players here would fall into 2 categories: Unstoppable Forces and Immovable Objects
Unstoppable Forces
This would include a few different kinds of threats, namely mons with super high attacking stats(Iron Moth, Baxcalibur, Roaring Moon, Kingambit) that can wallbreak without boosting, other boosters(Choice Items, Guts, Huge/Pure Power) which don't have the same potential, but would have another leg up on the high stats, since a raised in-game stat is leagues better, and BP boosted moves, and their enablers(facade, sharpness, hex, venoshock, technician(?), Kingambit again) since bp is really the only way to increase your damage. Also, with HOME dropping uhhh... TODAY?! guts ursaluna will be one of the most potent wallbreakers.

Immovable Objects
The main things here are the main damage sponges available right now. Garganacl would prove a massive issue to me, as status might be the only way to chip down pokemon. Clodsire will be a curious case, since it has no reason to run unaware anymore, so water absorb is a very good fallback. The main defensive utility of pokemon will be stat lowering. Intimidate, burns, paralysis, chilling water, and mystical fire all seem like they will also run rampant, as well as recovery moves. Overall, without bans, there will be an EXTREME abundance of damage sponge/bulky offense/stall teams in this meta, but this will also allow some yet unsung heroes to rise again.

Big Winners:
As mentioned before, some massive winners are Ursaluna, which will have more ability to switch in and immense wallbreaking capability, Kingambit, who with Supreme Overlord and a versatile movepool can offer good sweeping potential, Garganacl, who soaks up damage and salt cures, with not much wallbreakers to beat it, and Clodsire, which basically does the same thing. Honorable mentions include Toxapex, which has an extra moveslot for not running haze, and Blissey, which does Blissey things better now.

Big Losers:
Do you have a pokemon that relies on a setup move to do things? TOO BAD! Ddancers, Qdancers, Sdancers, Bdrummers, all can't do that anymore. Espathra isn't in an awful spot, since its utility with Lumina Crash is improved. Azumarill is now completely walled by Clodsire, so Medicham will rise in popularity(maybe). Maushold was never amazingly popular, but now tidy up only removes hazards(and subs), so it will reallybarely have a sort-of niche for that. Gholdengo might drop a bit, since it can't re-boost with nasty plot after a Make It Rain. Unaware is the big one, since it's just fundamentally worse, now that it only ignores stat drops, and most unaware Pokemon(hi DonBozo) don't really have another good ability to use.

Questions for the Community:
Is there any better name for this?(please help I'm so uncreative with names)

Would a protosynthesis boost be looped in with the intrepid sword category or the guts category? For me it seems like it is more like guts, but it might be more closely programmed with stat-stage raising abils.

Should all stat stage changes be completely removed? This would mean a whole different meta and could be worth trying, but for now I feel just raises should be removed.

If stat stage drops are also removed, how would balancing be different?

Is this too restrictive of a format? Also, since I was too lazy to fully check, has this idea been brought up before, and how can I improve it?

BTW, Contrary is a weird thing, i'm airing on the side of disable any boosts from contrary, but there might be something easier. Honestly, it could just be banned but please lmk what your opinions are.

Yeah this wouldn't be interesting to play, is the same as saying "OU with set up moves banned", is not the kind of stuff people play OMs for.