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Pet Mod SV OU Theorymon

Votings up!
Votes:
:tinkaton: 10
:tyranitar: 9
:rotom-heat: 1
:toedscruel: 0
:iron-thorns: 0

New slate!
:sv/Salamence: + Defog + 20 HP
:sv/Electrode-Hisui: +Magic Guard(Replaces Static)
:sv/Gyarados: Water/Grass (+Power Whip) + 8 Speed
:sv/Donphan: + Poison Heal + 20 HP
:sv/Umbreon: + Poison Touch + Knock Off

As always, around 5 days of discussion before voting!
 
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Hello I am here with approximately 17 seconds of playtime in OU and am gonna spread misinformation.

:salamence: This looks decent ig. My limited knowledge of the OU metagame leads me to have no idea how valuable Dragon/Flying is defensively, but if it's solid, this might be worth it. It's not the best thing at hitting gholdengo, but it can flame to prob 2hko so it's not as bad as corv at fogging against it.

:electrode-hisui: Rock head doesn't affect chloroblast, prob replace with Magic Guard cause this is ass.
Edit: With MGuard, this is now hype as shit, free LO+Chloroblast is a super strong option to be spamming, though it still needs tera to hit Dragons and Grasses for a lot. Should be a super good offensive pivot overall though, but idt overwhelming due to how ass most of its stats are despite its other traits.

:gyarados: STAB Pwhip is pretty good, but Water/Grass itself is not great coverage not to mention a generally worse defensive typing than Water/Flying in terms of setting up. Still should be pretty decent and it has some other options to make use of it, idk if it's quite good enough though, I would've rather seen Water/Flying even.

:donphan: Pheal tusk, but I think the fighting typing is pretty important for your resists. At least doesn't really lose to tusk like treads does and can prob carve a decent niche, but it def can't replace it on a team so idk if it's actually worth it.

:typhlosion-hisui: The famous 139 spatk Sheer Force mon. This just looks broken.
 
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:sv/salamence:+ Defog + 20 HP
i like this quite a bit. it gives salamence a role as a bulky defogger, something that we generally lack in gen 9 outside of corviknight (and defensive talonflame for the bold). mence also has a good amount of offensive presence with 135/110 offenses, so it's not too passive either

:sv/electrode-hisui: + Magic Guard
ungabunga me click chloroblast. all jokes aside, this is really good for helectrode. the sheer power of stab chloroblast combined with the fact that life orb's recoil is blocked by mguard means that helectrode is able to patch up its otherwise mediocre spatk stat

gyarados.gif
Water
Grass
(+Power Whip) + 8 Speed
it's an ok sub. 89 speed goes past stuff like gholdengo and rotom-w (right below 90 though grrr) and actual double stab is nice, but water/grass as a type is arguably worse than water/flying defensively, since it resists a lot less and becomes weak to uturn.

donphan.gif
+ Poison Heal + 20 HP
good sub, gives me gliscor vibes. donphan needed better recovery than lefties pretty desperately, and with pheal, facade also becomes a viable neutral option.

umbreon.gif
+ Poison Touch + Knock Off
a good improvement for umbreon that makes it less passive. umbreon having a knock that can poison also has potential to punish the foe for thinking it was any less than setup fodder. idk whether knock off will be used over foul play though; the ability to punish physical attackers is one of the main things that umbreon has going for it (bonus points for flavor!!)

Ranking: :salamence: > :electrode-hisui: > :umbreon: = :donphan: > :gyarados:
 
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Salamence: Meta needs Defoggers that can get past Gholdengo, so this is good. Has a nice defensive typing and with Intimidate the bulk is high. 7/10

Electrode: Very good change, this Mon is now immune to Hazards and can use Life Orb too, while dealing incredible damage with Chloroblast. It also outspeeds almost the whole Meta. I say almost, since Modest nature is kinda a must to do the damage its supposed to be doing. 8/10.

Gyarados: From the competitive standpoint, this is good. However, Gyarados makes absolutely no sense being Water-Grass, so I am not accepting it as valid. 0/10.

Donphan: Same here, nothing on the pokedex even remotely suggests Poison Heal. IRL elefants don,t have anything to do with poison either. If he learned like Breloom does, it could be considered, but as it is, it makes no sense. 0/10.

Umbreon: Now, this one originally was a Poison type, so, Poison Touch does make a lot of sense. Knock Off + Poison Touch is already very good on Alolan Muk, so something with Wish is even better at that, especially with Hazards support. Since its an Eeveelution and the change is good and makes sense, this is the best submission from the slate for me. 9/10.
 
Eeveeto said:
Salamence: Meta needs Defoggers that can get past Gholdengo, so this is good. Has a nice defensive typing and with Intimidate the bulk is high. 7/10

Electrode: Very good change, this Mon is now immune to Hazards and can use Life Orb too, while dealing incredible damage with Chloroblast. It also outspeeds almost the whole Meta. I say almost, since Modest nature is kinda a must to do the damage its supposed to be doing. 8/10.

Gyarados: From the competitive standpoint, this is good. However, Gyarados makes absolutely no sense being Water-Grass, so I am not accepting it as valid. 0/10.

Donphan: Same here, nothing on the pokedex even remotely suggests Poison Heal. IRL elefants don,t have anything to do with poison either. If he learned like Breloom does, it could be considered, but as it is, it makes no sense. 0/10.

Umbreon: Now, this one originally was a Poison type, so, Poison Touch does make a lot of sense. Knock Off + Poison Touch is already very good on Alolan Muk, so something with Wish is even better at that, especially with Hazards support. Since its an Eeveelution and the change is good and makes sense, this is the best submission from the slate for me. 9/10.
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u know we are not balancing from a flavor standpoint.... we are balancing with the goal to make it OU not adding flavor points lol
 
:salamence: 8/10 - 20 more base HP seems like overkill but defog is a very good addition. Salamence being too weak for OU is just... wrong.

:electrode-hisui: 9/10 - Kind of an obvious change but it does a lot more for helectrode beyond chloroblast spam. Would likely be an effective fast pivot

:gyarados: 5/10 - Has no business being changed to water/grass. Besides that, not bad

:donphan: 7/10 - Competes hard with Tusk, but pheal is pretty enticing, and it helps Donphan perform better as bulky support

:umbreon: 9/10 - knock + poison touch is a pretty based combo and it helps umbreon's passivity; would be niche at best, but it's a welcome addition

Overall better slate than last time :bellipog:
 
Eeveeto said:
Well, you can do that if you want.
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by ‘we’ they mean the mod itself lol. flavor isn’t a consideration here - we’re just trying to make things as viable as possible. anyway,

:salamence: this seems fine enough. that bulk with Intimidate is pretty nuts, and its other stats are nothing to sneeze at either. not exactly sure what top-tier OU mons it’s beating though, since a lot of the offensive stuff seems pretty hostile to it.

:electrode-hisui: I’ve seen enough funny calcs at this point to know this mon will be good. a pivot that doesn’t have to worry about hazard chip is a PREMIUM in this meta, and electrode even gets a solid typing to back it up.

:gyarados: fun change, but in all honesty I’m not sure how good it’ll be. Water/Flying being so good defensively was a big part of what makes Gyarados good, and without that I think its OU niche is questionable (though we did buff Gyara last gen by just giving it speed and it sucked, so who knows).

:donphan: competes too hard with Tusk without offering enough in exchange. No secondary STAB leaves it passive, as a status absorber it’s outclassed by stuff like Garganacl and Gholdengo, and its bulk isn’t even that good for a mon with no recovery outside of PHeal. I think the don needs a bit more than this to be viable.

:umbreon: Shitmon. Idk why OU Theorymons folks are so obsessed with the Eeveelutions, but this is not a viable OU mon and nobody can tell me otherwise. This thing is just sooooooo passive. Kingambit sets up in your face, Garg sits on you forever, Valiant owns you regardless of whether or not you Poison it. There is no world where this hits OU, and even if it did, it’s still a massive momentum sink.

:electrode-hisui: > :salamence: > :gyarados: = :donphan: > :umbreon:
 
Eeveeto said:
Salamence: Meta needs Defoggers that can get past Gholdengo, so this is good. Has a nice defensive typing and with Intimidate the bulk is high. 7/10

Electrode: Very good change, this Mon is now immune to Hazards and can use Life Orb too, while dealing incredible damage with Chloroblast. It also outspeeds almost the whole Meta. I say almost, since Modest nature is kinda a must to do the damage its supposed to be doing. 8/10.

Gyarados: From the competitive standpoint, this is good. However, Gyarados makes absolutely no sense being Water-Grass, so I am not accepting it as valid. 0/10.

Donphan: Same here, nothing on the pokedex even remotely suggests Poison Heal. IRL elefants don,t have anything to do with poison either. If he learned like Breloom does, it could be considered, but as it is, it makes no sense. 0/10.

Umbreon: Now, this one originally was a Poison type, so, Poison Touch does make a lot of sense. Knock Off + Poison Touch is already very good on Alolan Muk, so something with Wish is even better at that, especially with Hazards support. Since its an Eeveelution and the change is good and makes sense, this is the best submission from the slate for me. 9/10.
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Dawg is gonna vote for dogshit Umbreon for flavor, you oft to laugh.
 
:sv/Salamence: + Defog + 20 HP

geez 3 subs from me, dam. But we lack viable defog users... corv cant beat gholdengo and talon and lucha are niche. Mence can beat gholdengo

252 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 190-224 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 152-180 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It guarantees a 2hko and offensively hurricane -> flame with rocks up is ofetn to KO and deter it from coming in. it has a huge defensive presence pretty much walling all great tusk with its use of its typing (unless ice spinner) and just threaten it + defog all of the rocks away. It is able to switch into many things well such as lando-t, cind, (heatran with the use of hydro pump), kingambit if its running a bulky set.

-1 252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 126-148 (33.9 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 126-148 (29 - 34.1%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO

It has a pretty good stat line with 115/80/80 ad 135 attack which means it can use eq to threaten heatran, gholdengo, kingambit, and cind which is pretty helpful esp since a DD set can be possible since DWB, eq, and smth in last slot with its higher bulk can be amazing. Tho i will say offensive defog or def defog can be invaluable on many different teams to use esp with hurricane + flame having amazing coverage or draco + flame if u want to hit stuff such as rotom, roaring moon, and have a harder hit in general.

:sv/Electrode-Hisui: +Magic Guard(Replaces Static)

Dam...

252 SpA Life Orb Electrode-Hisui Chloroblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 294-347 (82.3 - 97.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Electrode-Hisui Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zapdos: 152-179 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Electrode-Hisui Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 133-156 (41.1 - 48.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Electrode-Hisui Chloroblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 289-343 (56.2 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

it is a pretty solid mon... 140 speed means it can fire chloroblast -> volt switch often or just fire 2 of them... and it shows how strong magic guard + LO is on a mon like this... it gives 2 shits about status, hazards, or recoil which means it gets to rain free with its moves... its a pretty strong pokemon ... and its prob def OU but do i really want it there? its pretty much unblockable volt switches outside of clodsire which still.. takes a decent chunk

252 SpA Life Orb Tera Grass Electrode-Hisui Chloroblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 221-263 (47.7 - 56.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

:sv/Gyarados: Water/Grass (+Power Whip) + 8 Speed

A bit part of what makes gyarados good... in my opinion is its defensive utility of water/flying. Water / grass is prob better using its stab but i would prob prefer giving it an actual flying stab instead of making it a much worse defensve typing since it can setup on a lot of the tier.. now its weak to common u-turns, fire moves, fighting types, and while it takes electric moves better... i think its not worth sacrificing ur ground immunity and a lot of def utility. Could be tuned a bit in a future slate and i could see it being a good mon

:sv/Donphan: + Poison Heal + 20 HP

110/120/60 bulk is pretty good in my opinion... i think it is a great alternative to great tusk that isnt exactly outclassed by it. Earthquake of a 120 attack while having knock and coverage options is pretty decent and not exactly passive in my opinion. Like that is a pretty strong earthquake hitting stuff like dragapult for pretty good damage. Being smth that is a great status absorber

obv its my sub... im overselling it but like its a pretty darn good sub at what it does, idt its passive otherwise a defensive great tusk is passive then.

32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 96-114 (22.6 - 26.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 91-108 (20.9 - 24.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

this shows its raw bulk esp since its item cant be knocked off, once its activated its a very good wall and can be a good pokemon into great tusk itself esp since a non offensive great tusk does jack shit to it and even with investment it can switch into it a couple times, what if it runs protect? it can eat hits fairly well

0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 87-103 (20.5 - 24.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 126-148 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- 27.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

:sv/Umbreon: + Poison Touch + Knock Off

Geez... i find it hard that people think kingambit is just setting up in ur face.. even a resisted foul play is doing 37-42% to bulky and 45-52 to offensive... and u also have to take another one since ur doing 60% max to phys def umbreon. Umbreon can just foul play u again and u faint unless ur full hp.

+2 252+ Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 150-177 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 149-176 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 199-235 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(you do not beat kingambit 1v1 by switching in but you deter in from setting up... since if it has taken some chip its easily getting hit for a bunch.)

Foul play deters setup while knock off can hurt things that dont want to lose their item... sure iron valiant can switch in but its losing its item (unless its blunder booster) or it can be poisoned with a 30% chance and that hurts a lot.... You do not want to be poisoned and makes it much easier to play around. Kingambit wants nothing from an umbreon clicking a foul play using its +2 attack esp if its been chipped which realistiically it would be, garg losing leftovers makes it much more managable, like it has to burn a lot more recovers than usual, and valiant being poisoned + Knocked is a very big boon for it, also if its choiced you can always protect scout it.

Soo all in all...

my order is mence > electrode-h > donphan > umbreon > gyarados
 
1. :sv/electrode hisui: My #1 vote for SV. While it doesn't necessarily fill a metagame role that's needed like :Salamence:, it is still a very cool concept and would spark a lot of life into this mostly mediocre Pokemon. Magic Guard Life Orb Chloroblast earns my vote.

2. :sv/salamence: Salamence would fulfill a valuable niche in the OU meta. Being able to threaten :Gholdengo: while packing Defog is valuable utility in the current meta. And it packs roost too. An HP buff would allow it to be tougher as well. I just didn't like it as much as :Electrode Hisui:. Partially because I have another Pokemon in mind to learn Defog.

3. :sv/Donphan: Donphan is #3 because :Kingambit: is broken. Poison Heal would allow it to compete on a more even playing field with its prehistoric older brother, :great tusk:. 20+ HP brings its HP stat to 110, allowing it to replicate :great tusk:'s bulk to an extent. Overall pretty good.

4. :sv/Umbreon: It's nice, but still pretty passive if the opponent has some way around Poison Touch. Knock Off Utility is nice, but it still doesn't do all that much on the field. It might make it a better wish passer than :scream tail: but that's not saying much.

5 :sv/Gyarados: Gyarados will probably be better, as having access to a 120 BP STAB move will certainly help it, I just don't see it competing with more standard Dragon Dancers like :Roaring moon: and :Baxcalibur:. Pretty meh.
 
:electrode-hisui:+ :salamence:

Imo none of these subs are ou material but these two are the most salvagable
 
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