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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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FS? What's that? Focus Sash?
Future Sight
So they meant having Azu paired with Glowing as a sort of core?
Basically
Thank you
It should be mentioned that Scald coming back as a TM does not automatically mean that Defog or Knock Off will also come back, or that if they do Landorus will be guaranteed to learn them. About Toxic in particular, it will likely never be a universal move again, the last time it was a TM was in BDSP and it was restricted to Poison and poison-adjacent mons.
Finchinator when should we expect a 
suspect test? That thing is broken and is the catalyst on why Tera is is deemed too much by some. Its by far the biggest tera abuser in the tier atm.
suspect test? That thing is broken and is the catalyst on why Tera is is deemed too much by some. Its by far the biggest tera abuser in the tier atm.
We are in the middle of discussing Tera itself, but Kingambit is very much part of discussion as wellFinchinator when should we expect a
If I had to guess its likely the suspect test for
would come after the community’s decision on what to do with tera?
I've managed to achieve something I'm certain only few have before: Unironically tilting from the 2000s to the literal 1200s the past week and a half (tbf most of these games were played high).
Now that I've spent the past few days crawling up to the mid 1700s here are a few of my takeaways:
1. Unlike past gens, people on low ladder actually use meta teams (opposed to Jolteon/Ambipom teams etc.). That being said, I noticed these players tend to use their tera early or otherwise squandered it, so there's a piece of advice
2. Specs pult is the truth. I've been running modest with tera dragon, and I find myself clicking draco meteor just as much, if not more than shadow ball. Many teams rely on gambit for their pult check and since hazards are so easy to keep down it can really only switch in a couple times. Either way, I've generally observed that this set has an easy time making progress in most matchups.
3. I still have no idea how to check bax. I've been running both air balloon dengo and tera water rocky helmet lando-t, but even then it stills feels like I'm only one misplay away from letting the game slip away.
4. Speaking of lando, I like rocky helmet on it since it's annoying for tusk to spin on it (even if it has ice spinner). Additionally, I saw somewhere that people pair a RH user with a fast u-turner to stop sash sam from getting spikes down, which has come in handy.
5. Obviously it's no takeaway that gambit is as dominant as ever, but I've found running jolly low kick gambit to be much more consistent than adamant iron head because of other gambit. Unless they're running the same set and win the speed tie, you can basically always switch into gambit and win, or at worst force them to use their tera.
6. I'm seeing lots of valiant/valiant speed ties deciding games and people running tera steel on their valiant specifically to try and win this match up. Like with the gambit mirror match up I described above, this doesn't really seem that healthy.
7. I'm going to plug my own Samurrot-H set here:
Samurott-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Hydro Pump
- Taunt
- Aqua Jet
I call this set hazard god because everything about it is designed to keep hazards down. Hydro Pump with 100 sp atk evs always OHKOs 252 hp great tusk trying to spin your hazards away, Taunt is for defoggers, and Aqua Jet for cinderace trying to court change.
Tbh taunt and aqua jet could be replaced with other moves (you could also probably run HDB or protective pads over sash), but the primary reason I'm posting this set is for this calc below:
100 SpA Samurott-Hisui Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 434-512 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Now that I've spent the past few days crawling up to the mid 1700s here are a few of my takeaways:
1. Unlike past gens, people on low ladder actually use meta teams (opposed to Jolteon/Ambipom teams etc.). That being said, I noticed these players tend to use their tera early or otherwise squandered it, so there's a piece of advice
2. Specs pult is the truth. I've been running modest with tera dragon, and I find myself clicking draco meteor just as much, if not more than shadow ball. Many teams rely on gambit for their pult check and since hazards are so easy to keep down it can really only switch in a couple times. Either way, I've generally observed that this set has an easy time making progress in most matchups.
3. I still have no idea how to check bax. I've been running both air balloon dengo and tera water rocky helmet lando-t, but even then it stills feels like I'm only one misplay away from letting the game slip away.
4. Speaking of lando, I like rocky helmet on it since it's annoying for tusk to spin on it (even if it has ice spinner). Additionally, I saw somewhere that people pair a RH user with a fast u-turner to stop sash sam from getting spikes down, which has come in handy.
5. Obviously it's no takeaway that gambit is as dominant as ever, but I've found running jolly low kick gambit to be much more consistent than adamant iron head because of other gambit. Unless they're running the same set and win the speed tie, you can basically always switch into gambit and win, or at worst force them to use their tera.
6. I'm seeing lots of valiant/valiant speed ties deciding games and people running tera steel on their valiant specifically to try and win this match up. Like with the gambit mirror match up I described above, this doesn't really seem that healthy.
7. I'm going to plug my own Samurrot-H set here:
Samurott-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Hydro Pump
- Taunt
- Aqua Jet
I call this set hazard god because everything about it is designed to keep hazards down. Hydro Pump with 100 sp atk evs always OHKOs 252 hp great tusk trying to spin your hazards away, Taunt is for defoggers, and Aqua Jet for cinderace trying to court change.
Tbh taunt and aqua jet could be replaced with other moves (you could also probably run HDB or protective pads over sash), but the primary reason I'm posting this set is for this calc below:
100 SpA Samurott-Hisui Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 434-512 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yeah I have no idea what to do vs Bax either lol. Most of the time it just feels like I accidentally win against it, with Glaive Rush barely missing out on a KO & and it getting KO'D in return.
Not necessarily. We may hold off on Tera and suspect Kingambit first. Maybe vice versa. Too early to say.If I had to guess its likely the suspect test for
Okay thanks
Would love to see a Gambit suspect first. I think he's far more of a pressing issue, and from a practical point of view, it's far more likely the community will come to a consensus much more quickly than for Tera.
If Gambit were to be looked at first, what would the contingency plan be for the attackers who would immediately benefit from it leaving the tier? Dragapult and Valiant would likely immediately be on the radar I imagine. I personally think the tier would benefit from a shake-up at the top as too many teams are centralizing around the same offensive cores.
I wonder if this will lead to the nuking of tier king Tusk too, or if he's fine as-is to stay in, even if Pult gets axed.
Nah tusk is in no way overbearing for the tier, it's high presence is just because it does a lot of valuable roles in a single slot. Kingambit leaving also wouldnt really change anything for Tusk barring some Tera typing or 4th move to snipe Gambit after the latter uses Tera.
If anything Tusk might see slightly less use with Gambit being gone as its one of Gambits most splashable checks (tho I doubt it'll drop)
Imo Pult and Valiant have more checks/counters that would see rise in usage. Kingambit can beat every mon in OU with tera so I think the meta would be more healthy without it.
Tusk's just a guy. There was some concern that it was literally overcentralizing in the early days of the format, when he was sitting at 70%+ usage rate in tournaments, but now? It's just a good mon, with multiple rare moves in its learnset.
Yeah, I've always seen the top three rock-paper-scissors style competition as being between Gambit, Pult, and Tusk. If one goes, the others go nuts. If multiple go, maybe all three would topple. Tusk is a good Pokemon, and has its issues... I hope it doesn't get nuked.
Great Tusk will never be banned from SV OU. It is not broken, much like Landorus-Therian was not broken in Gen 7 or 8. It's just the most splashable Pokemon with its physical bulk, offensive profile, and ability to remove hazards in a meta with very limited removal options.
Even though a lot of people clambored for its ban due to Lando's exceptionally high usage rates.
i miss pyukumuku
Those are people stuck in the 1100s that call for a ban of Great Tusk, the same crowd that wanted Lando-T banned in previous generations. I can assure you with 100% confidence that Great Tusk in its current state is nowhere even remotely worthy of tiering action.
Which is fair enough. I like the big elephant boi quite a bit, and would be sad to see him go. I don't think he's bannable by any means but what do I know? I peaked at around 1100-1200 before I stopped laddering months ago pre-home lmao.
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