Yeah, but the absolute power disparity isn't that different. They're just not engaged in a struggle between the old school of thought (bans being a last resort) and the new (bans are a required part of dealing with Gamefreak's design decisions). It's completely normal to send things up from UU (and especially lower tiers) just because they have the wrong vibe.
I've never really agreed with the argument that "we're banning too many things", but increasingly, I at least understand it. It stems from an era when Gamefreak wasn't dropping nearly 2 dozen 570+ BST mons into a new tier and letting God sort it out. And that doesn't even capture the full scope of the problem, because Annihilape, Espathra, Kingambit and Garganacl are (mostly) just regular mons!
So i mean, yeah. Sure. Tera is definitely having an effect on the format. But Gen 9 having more new legendary-BST mons than the first 3 gens did, combined, means that it was always going to be a herculean effort to get the format into a balanced state.
...and then they started shadow-dropping things like Walking Wake into the tier. God help us.
There's certainly a chance that banning Tera might make things appreciably better, but as long as the specter of "older formats never needed to ban things" looms overhead, we'll all continue to suffer.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who is thinking about the subject
I've been thinking this for a while now.
Is it Tera or is it the mons who are OP? To understand this I'm putting into perspective something, and is the amount of bans and the amount of new pokémon available.
In this list I'm counting Melmetal as Gen 8 and Hisuan mons as gen 9, since that was the first time it could be played in a traditional pokémon game smogon bases their formats on.
| Gen 1/2 | Gen 3 | Gen 4 | Gen 5 | Gen 6 | Gen 7 | Gen 8 | Gen 9 |
|---|
Fully evolved mons | 79/61 | 76 | 72 | 83 | 37 + 45 | 67 | 62 | 86+ |
Fully evolved "evolutions" | 0/5 | 0 | 18 | 0 | 45 Megas | 0 | 4 | 9 |
Minor legendary/Mythicals | 4/4 | 6+Deoxys | 11 | 13 | 4 | 18 | 11 | 22+ |
2 much 4 (O)U
New | | | | | | | | |
% of non-common mons |
5.714%
| 13.158% | 15.28% | 15.66% | 4.878% | 26.87% | 17.74% | 25.58% |
No longer 2 much | - | | | | | | | |
| - | - | | | Phione
Regigigas
Kyurem-B
Kyurem | Phione
Regigigas
Hoopa-U
Kyurem-B
Kyurem | | |
Conclussions I was able to gather
- Gen 3 Lacks any meaningful specie interaction with gen 1-2. That's likely because TPCi was new at this point in time and they didn't knew how to manage a franchise (Not that they improved too much though).
- Gen 4 Introduced the most evolutions to fully evolved mons. It did not cause damage on competitive though, since those were there mostly there to increase the amount of options on the adventure, just like physical/special split.
- Gen 5's powercreep seem to come more from the hidden habilities than the regular species themselves, despite introducing so many of them. Just like Hoenn, Unova lacks relation with previous gens due to a very bold and divisive move tht was in perspective, not something who improved the games if you ask me.
- Gen 6 Megas caused lot less damage than expected in OU despite being so many. The reasons are that you could only use 1 per battle and 2 megastones is not a good idea outside VGC, the delay turn on speed made them easier to handle. The only gen 6 megas who truly broke OU in the long term were Salamence, Lucario, Gengar and Kangaskhan, with Metagross being a Gen 7 issue of speeds.
- A big reason Kalos felt so empty is their lack of minor legendaries. The only one is Zygarde and even that was supposed to be a mayor one but got cut due to deadlines, giving the region next to no lore we care about, unlike the 3 previous gens; the fact Squishy and Zydog appeared in the anime before gen 7 got announced should be enough proof of this.
- Gen 7's meta I would describe as "Somehow it worked well". If I had to guess why it's because Ultra Beasts are overly polarized stat-wise, which rarely worked in their favor due to very exploitable weaknesses. That might explain why the tier, despite being so active, is hesitant to changes or testing, like doing one to Deoxys-Defense who is in most cases a worse Toxapex.
- Tapus and Mythicals are another story, because they're well-rounded and ALL of them were meta shapings. I'm sure the Tapus were made that way on purpose for VGC 2017 spectacle.
- Gen 8 is filled with arguably intentional powercreep. 3 bans are to minor legendaries who were somewhat busted on release or just have OP with weaknesses that were not properly accounted for in singles OR doubles. Honorable mention to Dragapult and Tornadus-T, who were banned in NatDex, as well as a lot of mons that are OP but can't do anything to X type.
- Gen 9 Is clearly intentional powercreep. This region alongside Hisui introduced 31 mons who are either "legendary" or a not so necessary evolution. Not to mention, most of those "legendaries" stats are distributed in more efficient ways than Ultra beasts, letting them much less exploitables than a Kartana, Xurkitree or Nihilego.
- Most bans are either OP paradox/legendary paldean/galarian creatures. Most exceptions are also self explanatory in Annihilape (Rage Fist + good bulk), Espathra (Speed Boost + Stored power + Calm mind + Recovery), Palafin (Water Slaking without truant + jet punch) and Shed Tail (A failed attempt to make baton pass fair). The questionable case is Volcarona, the matchup moth.
Overall, it seems like 65/35 with
the new roster being more responsible. Of course too many legendaries without exploitable weaknesses would cause this, and of course if you only have one weakness and its patched by tera.
Powercreep
We know powercreep and hate it, the act to creeping up powerlevel on videogames. I think it's kinda appropiate to remind you how severe it might be for the switch era. Keep in mind some mons also favored from this that are from older games, most notably Dragonite and Volcarona, but they're exceptions to this, not the rule.
Huge physical stats and has a 144 BP STAB move with 51% flinch rate.
If it gets added through DLC or something it'll get banned due to tera steel being unstoppable, just like in natdex.
It had both Grassy Glide and Grassy Surge, aka a an stronger priority move than STAB extreme speed from Arceus. Nerfed so it would not dominate VGC, and still good in btw.
It had STAB on all its moves, good coverage and a better Flare blitz. Nerfed so it could not dominate BSS again.
A better Skarmory in everything except hazards. It's a big responsible of why they nerfed recovery moves in gen 9 due to its stall tactics back in gen 8 BSS alongside Zapdos, Toxapex, Porygon 2, Dragonite and Hippowdon. That being said, Dragonite, Zapdos and Porygon 2 were the most egregious cases and the metal bird is more of an early meta issue.
It's a pokémon who can either have 2 choice bands or choice band + choice scarf, with an almost unresisted attack combo. It's so strong it was the first time people took Ice types seriously.
FISHIOUS REND + Strong Jaw. Who though this was a good idea?!
BOLT BEAK. Be glad electric can be walled by ground types and Hail is a bad style without the frozen frankenstein.
It has 142 speed with good offenses and U-Turn. Before pokémon were not reaching over 130, let alone over 140 without serious sacrifices, setups or items. Be glad 100 special attack is kinda bad and is forced to use that... then Tera happened.
The strongest legendary ever created due to best type combo, incredible 138/148 speed and a better choice band as hability. So busted even its weak form was too much FOR UBERS. Needed a nerf and is still an S-Tier pokémon in Ubers.
STAB 113/120 BP moves who ignore defense boosts, attack drops and protect, alongside either receiving a powerboost from rain or being almost impossible to resist. They're dominating VGC for a reason.
Because defense also gets powercrept. A perfect defensive pokémon, with access to a pivot move who removes weather, regenerator, toxic immunity, great bulk, future sight and can go on a tank role if necessary... which it can't atm due to all the legos in Paldean fields.
200 SPEED and an electric boost. The only thing holding it back was no ground coverage.
This mon is proof of how OP ghost had become after the. Impossible to realistically wall, snowball effect and also incredibly fast. No tools against dark types wasn't enough to keep it in OU back in gen 8, let alone gen 9.
Almost as broken as Zacian due to both moxie + unnerve, , another better close combat, and being even faster than Zacian-C. Only hold up by dark types and not even that prevented this thing from winning worlds 2023.
It has a 97.5 BP STAB move who puts spikes you can't bounce off, and a 50% power boost to other slicing moves like sacred sword o razor shell. A big reason the meta is so offense-oriented is how reliably this mon each time it uses its strongest dark type move it also puts
a layer of his ancient Lego collection in the opposing battlefield.
(Side comment. Why NO ONE in the community has ever compared
Spikes to legos? They're the same thing!)
The strongest facade user ever made. Is a lot of stats in general and very difficult to wall, but not unbeatable because is slow and lacks lots of resistances. More of a VGC mon with niche in 6v6.
LAST RESPECTS + SWIFT SWIM.
A good reminder of why ground + fairy is kinda busted offensively, specially with very high special attack and high speed.
Gen 1 razor leaf is back. Also has Knock off which most mons lost because it was seemed too good to keep.
Unaware on a mon who is not passive and has a better fiery dance who bypasses substitutes. No wonder why it's so good in Ubers and also the King of UU.
While not amazing in singles, in doubles it's a great offensive support due to follow me and a 300 BP STAB move. Good thing normal types are easy to wall in 6v6, rocky helmet exists and Maushold is bad outside speed.
A wall who can melt water and steel types, with status immunity, ghost resistances and recovery. Is the wall smogon somehow doesn't like.
It has the dreaded combo of stored power + Calm mind + recovery + speed boost. If not, Lumina Crash is also a ridiculous move that would force everyone to use covert cloak. Australia was right, flightless birds are evil.
What if Slaking did not had truant? Also give it a better typing and 60BP STAB priority.
SHED TAIL SHENANIGANS.
LAST RESPECT + SAND RUSH.
Basically a physical blissey. Be glad it lacks toxic and reliable recovery because this version of blissey has actual attacking power I think most dondozos should invest into... oh wait, those sets would be curse chestorest which is not viable due to all the lego pieces going around.
Infinite scaling move in raging fist, alongside the stats to use it effectively and worst of all, it does not reset on switch meaning it punished ridiculously hard U-Turn and defensive teams.
Swords dance + Sucker punch, a free choice band as hability, bulk to survive a pyro ball from offensive Cinderace without Tera, and coverage to break through almost everyting, even without tera. According to Smogon this is fine to keep in OU... Oh wait, most think this should have been banned, just barely not enough.
The mon who managed to outclass Landorus-T as a bulky ground type. The only reason this tier has any semblance of stability, both due to somewhat checking the guy above it and being the only spinner who can defeat Gholdengo on a 1v1 to keep up with the ridiculous hazard meta more in check.
The most used mon in VGC for a reason. Amazing speed, special bulk and special attack alongside very difficult to resist combo, there's no wonder why it was banned so quickly.
Another OP Ice type, this time due to having over 130 speed + a combo of freeze dry + hydro pump nothing can resist without tera + avobe average special attack. I still wonder why people still says ice is the worst type when we get stuff like THIS and both bug and rock exists.
An Ice type with gargantuan attack who get's +1 attack from every attempt to burn it and a 120 BP move without drawbacks. Also good bulk and decent speed. Back in gen 5 said Ice type had next to no defensive utility, was weaker, slower and was still good.
The ultimate spinblocker guaranteeing there's no reliable way of removing hazards, or to use any kind of status move on it for that matter. No wonder why the meta is so utterly offensive and spike-oriented alongisde Samurott.
So...
Why is this thing allowed in OU?! Seriously, almost every single issue with offense is due to spikes, and almost all issues with spikes are due to the cheese bar blocking any attempt of removing it. It doesn't matter it has reliable checks or even counters, this mon invalidates entire playstyles and forces almost everyone to run boots or support cinderace, limiting sets of pokémon and therefore defensive counterplay to a meta who desperately needs it.
Combo of over 170 Attack and over 130 speed with great STAB combo, strong priority and enough coverage. Do I need to explain why it was too much when Weavile with less was already a bit of a problem back in gen 8?
Great STAB combo with a 33% power boost to make it more powerful than even box legendaries, while also not being slow or specially frail. Back in gen 6 that hability demanded to use moves with secondary effects or to use megastones and contact moves.
Fast mix attacker with incredible coverage and the hability to use choice scarf without being locked, and has tons of viable sets who become even better due to surprise factor. At least it lacks snowball effect of Beast boost.
One is a powercreep Groudon in a lot of ways, the other acheived ban in NatDex ubers alongside Calyrex-Shadow. Both alongside Nerfed Zacian-C are the 3 most popular Ubers by a longshot.
Opinion
This is the single most important OU moment. It's clear to me that the new direction of Pokémon isn't compatible with traditional 6v6, where defense and offense used to balance eachother out on gen 3-7 (Gen 1 and 2 are unpopular because it's almost impossible to make progress). There's 4 choices we can make, and all are just AWFUL in some way or another or will be very difficult to implement.
Ban more new mons: Yeah, this will make a lot of people angry because they're a big reason people play gen 9 OU to begin with. It's incredibly difficult to make people realize that non-obvious cases of mons being OP are indeed OP. Even evident cases don't always end up with action as we saw with Gen 4 Jirachi where people literally modded the game, going against what Smogon defends, instead of just banning something almost no one thinks is balanced in OU. Also no, don't pretend that the differences of mechanics are that relevant, otherwise BDSP OU would be played,
which is not. The fact Kingambit evaded banhammer should be enough saying here.
Ban Tera: The more you propose this, the more you create a group who will actively keep tera even though it's conscious it's better to do something, just because they don't want a ban, because Tera is a big reason to play OU to begin with. Why do you think nothing happened the first time? Because enough people feared a Tera ban that it got enough people to not ban due to all the vocal minority, not to mention the lack of compromise from OU to even consider the lower tier metas as affected negatively.
Restrict Tera: This seems the more logical step. As much as Smogon is traumatized with Baton Pass, the only realistic solution that could work is to implement solutions slowly to see if things work, then ban if nothing does. Again, a big reason people play gen 9 IS due to Tera. That being said, we have a serious problem:
WE'RE NOT RATIONAL. Have you seen people complaining about being banned for modifying pokémon genes, in
a country where modifying software is illegal and in a world tournament? I did yesterday's afternoon, and this tells me that pokémon players don't really understand how stuff or even laws works For your reminder, the Smogon users consists mostly of teenagers and young adults, neither group very experienced with the whole negotiation thing, of trying if our theories if they are true or not; btw, I'm included on the latter group.
Do nothing: This NEVER works in any context. If there's a problem ignoring it just makes it bigger and bigger; just ask Blizzard if you don't believe me. The meta has a serious problem of being overly offensive (
I know, usually is the other way around) and you can't deal with it with not dealing with it and hide it under the rug, this is not politics.Sadly the more we do pointless discussions, the more we'll get into doing nothing.
I'll tell you something important to keep in mind while waiting for the inevitable suspect test: Gen 9 WILL NEVER be like other gens because Balance is not better than offense in OU, unlike most gens since advance.
Whatever we do, a large group will be upset...
Sorry for the rant, but this is incredibly serious and should NOT be let into winners and losers, it should be a search for the best solution and try to convince others why it is that way. Unless we act like proper adults nothing will be ever be acheived due to supermayority restrictions. The Kingambit suspect test let us clear something:
THE NEXT SUSPECT TEST HAS TO BE TO TERA. If Kingambit was not banned with 50% usage and being a mixup hell smogon is very against in general, then
NOTHING will be banned otherwise.
That being said, there's a lot of new moves who suggest a tutor place, aka a place where we could get defog, and a new tera variation which is even more reason to work on something so when DLC comes out we know what to do next.
PS: What do you think said tera is? I bet is tera "typeless", a tera who removes all weaknesses and resistances to types, and gives you a supereffective move. If that's the case then there's even more reason to ban Tera blast.
