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- Thread starter The_Rider
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Well ladies and gentleman... I've been saying it forever, talking trash in every post. KINGDRA IS UBER!!!!! This, is one of the most devastating combos to sweep the uber metagame.. and one of the most deadly since growthtran... its...
KingOGRE
I use this on my uber team, and they make the best sweeper duo I've ever seen, and not just for double battles. Now for the sets!
Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Quiet, 0 speed IV
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Defense / 252 Special Attack
*Surf
*Thunder
*Ice Beam
*Water Spout
Not original by any stretch of the imagination.. but underused thanks to stupid Scarfogre. Specsogre hits just as hard, thanks to specs making surfs power comparable to water spout. Quiet gives me weather priority, and the HP EVs allow him to take a hit quite well. Kyogre is a bulky bastard. Blissey is 2HKOed, and everything non-resistent is OHKOed, except Lugia, who still takes about 85%. Now for the math:
657 Special Attack (Choice Specs) * 1.5 (Drizzle) = 996.5.. YIKES
Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Mild
EVs: 200 Attack / 56 Speed / 252 Special Attack
*Surf
*Draco Meteor
*Waterfall
*Rain Dance / Filler... Brine could work as lol but this slot doesn't matter.
Seriously, OU is actually holding Kingdra back. In an environment with infinite rain, Thunderwave-less Blisseys, no grass pokemon, many dragons and only two pure water types... Kingdra thrives.. and is outright scary. The EVs net 440 speed, enough to outspeed everything in the uber metagame (including you, Attack Deoxys) barring Scarf Palkia. If he frightens you, only 100 EVs is needed to outpace you, which is 2 above Jolly Raquaza's magic DD number. The strategy is to smash through anything you kno you can kill, and use Draco Meteor to slay the dragons. After that, either switch out or use Waterfall to sweep, which still hurts things quite a bit.
Uber-common pokemon vulnerable to Kingdra:
*Deoxys Attack, Darkrai, Forretress, Skarmory, and Metagross are all OHKOed by Surf. Mewtwo has a chance of being KOed with Stealth Rock Support. Deoxys also dies to waterfall.
*Tyranitar gets butt-fucked by Surf in the rain or Waterfall in the sand.
*Blissey is 2HKOed by Waterfall.
*Lugia / Arceus /Mew are all 2HKOed by Surf. I wouldn't advise leaving him in against Extreme-Arceus unless his weakened enough to KO him! Mew takes 80% from Surf, and really can't do much.
*Lati@, Giratina, Garchomp, and Palkia all get thrown into the next dimension by a full power Draco Meteor. Giritina stands a small chance to survive, but if SR is up, he always dies.
*Ho-oh can survive a Surf only if he uses max special defense. But who uses that?
*Groudon make sure it's raining to outspeed him... he dies to surf.
*Manaphy is 2HKOed by Draco Meteor and doesn't have time to do anything.
Rayquaza (screw air lock), Dialga, and Kyogre can be problematic, but no ones perfect.
Opinions?
KingOGRE
I use this on my uber team, and they make the best sweeper duo I've ever seen, and not just for double battles. Now for the sets!
Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Quiet, 0 speed IV
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Defense / 252 Special Attack
*Surf
*Thunder
*Ice Beam
*Water Spout
Not original by any stretch of the imagination.. but underused thanks to stupid Scarfogre. Specsogre hits just as hard, thanks to specs making surfs power comparable to water spout. Quiet gives me weather priority, and the HP EVs allow him to take a hit quite well. Kyogre is a bulky bastard. Blissey is 2HKOed, and everything non-resistent is OHKOed, except Lugia, who still takes about 85%. Now for the math:
657 Special Attack (Choice Specs) * 1.5 (Drizzle) = 996.5.. YIKES
Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Mild
EVs: 200 Attack / 56 Speed / 252 Special Attack
*Surf
*Draco Meteor
*Waterfall
*Rain Dance / Filler... Brine could work as lol but this slot doesn't matter.
Seriously, OU is actually holding Kingdra back. In an environment with infinite rain, Thunderwave-less Blisseys, no grass pokemon, many dragons and only two pure water types... Kingdra thrives.. and is outright scary. The EVs net 440 speed, enough to outspeed everything in the uber metagame (including you, Attack Deoxys) barring Scarf Palkia. If he frightens you, only 100 EVs is needed to outpace you, which is 2 above Jolly Raquaza's magic DD number. The strategy is to smash through anything you kno you can kill, and use Draco Meteor to slay the dragons. After that, either switch out or use Waterfall to sweep, which still hurts things quite a bit.
Uber-common pokemon vulnerable to Kingdra:
*Deoxys Attack, Darkrai, Forretress, Skarmory, and Metagross are all OHKOed by Surf. Mewtwo has a chance of being KOed with Stealth Rock Support. Deoxys also dies to waterfall.
*Tyranitar gets butt-fucked by Surf in the rain or Waterfall in the sand.
*Blissey is 2HKOed by Waterfall.
*Lugia / Arceus /Mew are all 2HKOed by Surf. I wouldn't advise leaving him in against Extreme-Arceus unless his weakened enough to KO him! Mew takes 80% from Surf, and really can't do much.
*Lati@, Giratina, Garchomp, and Palkia all get thrown into the next dimension by a full power Draco Meteor. Giritina stands a small chance to survive, but if SR is up, he always dies.
*Ho-oh can survive a Surf only if he uses max special defense. But who uses that?
*Groudon make sure it's raining to outspeed him... he dies to surf.
*Manaphy is 2HKOed by Draco Meteor and doesn't have time to do anything.
Rayquaza (screw air lock), Dialga, and Kyogre can be problematic, but no ones perfect.
Opinions?
Shadow Ball and HP fight is better for coverage maybe, but if you hate Gyarados is TB better but Psyschic hits only Toxicroak really hard.
raiku: how about giveing it thunder and enough speed to beat scarfogre? that would remove kyogre from the list of pokes that beat it. or ice beam for quazas switching in? T tar could beat you then but its not as common as Ky.
Kingdra can't learn thunder. He outspeeds modest Scarfogre as it is, so he can at least dent him to make water spout useless if needed. He can't stay in against ray, because swift swim is ineffective because of air lock. T-tar NEVER beats Kingdra. He dies to waterfall in the sand, and can't OHKO kingdra unless he gets a SE crit. To be fun, he can just clear the sand and OHKO him with Surf.
ok my mistake about the thunder bit, i thought virtuly all dragons and waters got it. ice beam would be good if you have already seen quaza or think it will try to DD up and cant aford to let it, but i suppose draco metior would be better. the only thing rain dance would be good or is if T tar or groudon is in, and you would be better switching out or attacking ether of them.
Xatu @ Flame Orb
Calm/Careful nature
EVs: 200 HP , mixed defenses.
IVs: 30+/10-/30+/10-/30+/20+
Air Slash/Psychic
Power Swap
Psycho Shift
Roost/Wish
Turns your opponent into a useless sack of crap. Swap your 166 Satk and 155 Atk onto your opponent, rendering them useless. You get a nice attack stat in exchange. After you've swapped with something, you can still burn some stuff. Roost keeps poor frail Xatu from dying, and you can attempt to damage stuff with an attacking move.
321 HP lets you survive eight turns of burn without roosting. Xatus mediocre defenses use the remaining EVs. In UU, this could be a serious pain in the butt to deal with, because nobody wants to be left with 155 attack and a burn.
Calm/Careful nature
EVs: 200 HP , mixed defenses.
IVs: 30+/10-/30+/10-/30+/20+
Air Slash/Psychic
Power Swap
Psycho Shift
Roost/Wish
Turns your opponent into a useless sack of crap. Swap your 166 Satk and 155 Atk onto your opponent, rendering them useless. You get a nice attack stat in exchange. After you've swapped with something, you can still burn some stuff. Roost keeps poor frail Xatu from dying, and you can attempt to damage stuff with an attacking move.
321 HP lets you survive eight turns of burn without roosting. Xatus mediocre defenses use the remaining EVs. In UU, this could be a serious pain in the butt to deal with, because nobody wants to be left with 155 attack and a burn.
Power Swap switches the stat changes, not the stats themselves. Clever idea, though.
Celescarf?! I don't think many people use this, but it's awesome...
Celebi @ Choice Scarf
Modest
EV's: 120 HP, 136 Spe, 252 SpAtk
Leaf Storm
Psychic
T-wave
HP ice/fire/fighting/U-turn
136 speed EVs put you at 405 speed with choice scarf, enough to out speed CS heracross (this can be increased to outspeed other CS pokes that run 405 speed, but I don't recommend it).
Psychic outspeeds and OHKO's common leads crobat, roserade, infernape and gengar. Scarfed gengar outspeeds you, but fails to ohko with shadow ball. It also does 87-102% to a heracross with 104 EVs in HP.
Hippowdon is killed by leaf storm. Adamant max atk tyranitar fails to OHKO with crunch (does KO with LO and CB though) and at max HP takes 70-82% (2HKO) from LS. Weavile has a very slight chance to be KOed by LS, and can also be crippled by t-wave. It also needs a CB to KO with night slash (LO fails). LS kills all starmie, most vaporeon, and milotic about 50% of the time. It does 96-114% to azelf with no defensive investments.
The hidden power can be difficult to decide: do you want coverage, or do you want to take out some very dangerous threats. I personally use HP ice, even though it leaves you walled by steels, and you can use t-wave to paralyze most of them. HP ice KO's salamence leads if they don't boost their defensive EV's. It does 90-105% to a garchomp with 16 HP EVs. It has no chance to KO dragonite, however, unless it uses no EVs for defense.
I haven't done any calcs for HP fire, but it probably hits metagross, skarmory, and bronzong for decent damage. U-turn is great for scouting, and can help against Wobb leads. HP ground can also be used against heatran, though I don't recommend it as it fails to OHKO.
T-wave is great for a hit and run and can help you wear down threats that your team has trouble with. It's great against a lead gyarados who tries to taunt you.
Overall, this work great as a lead and revenge killer. It's just bulky enough to take some hits and strike back for major damage. I've had so many "WTF! how did you outspeed me" and "that's gay, scarfed celebi" comments. I can't count all the times someone has switched in an infernape after I killed something with psychic and gets killed. Works great with stealth rock support, as it turns some of those iffy OHKOs into sure OHKOs.
Celebi @ Choice Scarf
Modest
EV's: 120 HP, 136 Spe, 252 SpAtk
Leaf Storm
Psychic
T-wave
HP ice/fire/fighting/U-turn
136 speed EVs put you at 405 speed with choice scarf, enough to out speed CS heracross (this can be increased to outspeed other CS pokes that run 405 speed, but I don't recommend it).
Psychic outspeeds and OHKO's common leads crobat, roserade, infernape and gengar. Scarfed gengar outspeeds you, but fails to ohko with shadow ball. It also does 87-102% to a heracross with 104 EVs in HP.
Hippowdon is killed by leaf storm. Adamant max atk tyranitar fails to OHKO with crunch (does KO with LO and CB though) and at max HP takes 70-82% (2HKO) from LS. Weavile has a very slight chance to be KOed by LS, and can also be crippled by t-wave. It also needs a CB to KO with night slash (LO fails). LS kills all starmie, most vaporeon, and milotic about 50% of the time. It does 96-114% to azelf with no defensive investments.
The hidden power can be difficult to decide: do you want coverage, or do you want to take out some very dangerous threats. I personally use HP ice, even though it leaves you walled by steels, and you can use t-wave to paralyze most of them. HP ice KO's salamence leads if they don't boost their defensive EV's. It does 90-105% to a garchomp with 16 HP EVs. It has no chance to KO dragonite, however, unless it uses no EVs for defense.
I haven't done any calcs for HP fire, but it probably hits metagross, skarmory, and bronzong for decent damage. U-turn is great for scouting, and can help against Wobb leads. HP ground can also be used against heatran, though I don't recommend it as it fails to OHKO.
T-wave is great for a hit and run and can help you wear down threats that your team has trouble with. It's great against a lead gyarados who tries to taunt you.
Overall, this work great as a lead and revenge killer. It's just bulky enough to take some hits and strike back for major damage. I've had so many "WTF! how did you outspeed me" and "that's gay, scarfed celebi" comments. I can't count all the times someone has switched in an infernape after I killed something with psychic and gets killed. Works great with stealth rock support, as it turns some of those iffy OHKOs into sure OHKOs.
ARE YOU SERIOUS!??!?! I'm gonna check... because Power Trick swaps defenses/attack , not boosts... wouldn't Power Swap swap the stats too?
^^^^ I've used it as a lead before. Replace T-wave with HP fighting and you solve the Weavile problem. You can also get Tar with out lowering your special attack to keep any heatrans and lucarios from coming in and setting up. U-turn is the 4th move. Note that with HP fighting, you need 144 EVs, giving you 406, which is beneficial since so many things have 405.
Thanks RL, I knew I was forgetting something...
HP fighting is a great option (and I should have put it over HP fire), dealing with with leading weavile and hitting all those steels SE (but not metagross, bronzong, or skarm). However, it is a probable 3HKO (can 2HKO) on a max HP Tyranitar with lefties. It hurts incoming Lukes, but Heatran is still taking <50%, and that's with no defensive EVs (still better than barely scratching it with another leaf storm though).
If you've got the dragons covered, definitely use HP fighting. But with the threat that garchomp and friends pose, having a poke that can take an earthquake or outrage and kill it is very valuable.
I used to run U-turn too, and I loved the scouting aspect of the move. However, with the EV spread I used, it just did crap damage. I could run more atk, but it needs its defenses to survive some hits. It works well with a team that can take some hits, but on an offensive team, t-wave is crucial.
HP fighting is a great option (and I should have put it over HP fire), dealing with with leading weavile and hitting all those steels SE (but not metagross, bronzong, or skarm). However, it is a probable 3HKO (can 2HKO) on a max HP Tyranitar with lefties. It hurts incoming Lukes, but Heatran is still taking <50%, and that's with no defensive EVs (still better than barely scratching it with another leaf storm though).
If you've got the dragons covered, definitely use HP fighting. But with the threat that garchomp and friends pose, having a poke that can take an earthquake or outrage and kill it is very valuable.
I used to run U-turn too, and I loved the scouting aspect of the move. However, with the EV spread I used, it just did crap damage. I could run more atk, but it needs its defenses to survive some hits. It works well with a team that can take some hits, but on an offensive team, t-wave is crucial.
Garchomp is 2HKOed by Leafstorm and Salamence is 2HKOed by Psychic. And I don't think HP Ice will OHKO either (Salamence with SR is a different story) so it might not be needed.
No, you probably just looked at Power Trick's effect and assumed Power Swap works similarly. As I remember, the same applies to Guard Swap.
Now then, here's something I've just bred up. Opinions, plz.
Golbat @Choice Band
Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
-Brave Bird
-Poison Fang
-Steel Wing
-U-Turn
CB Golbat. The concept came to me one day. I remembered that at one point in its existance, Golbat had been considered fully evolved. This prompted me to take a look at its stats, and that's when I discovered its decent speed and somewhat-viable Attack. Base 90 speed, that's not too bad. And base 80 Attack, prime for CB boosting. With Jolly nature and a Choice Band, Golbat achieves 388 Attack, and 306 Speed. Brave Bird for your basic sweeping potential, Poison Fang for STAB, and most notably, the chance for Toxic poisoning. Steel Wing because, unlike Staraptor, Golbat has nothing else for dealing with them Rock-types. And U-Turn to GET OUTTA THERE! Sure, it won't outspeed some of the bigger threats in the game, but it holds its own. UU material, perhaps?
EDIT:
Seadra @Wise Glasses
Modest
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spd, 6 Def
-Agility
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Dragon Pulse/Signal Beam
Agilidra. Most people underestimate Seadra's Special Attack and Defense stats. It's decent Special Attack, coupled with Wise Glasses (which, if I'm correct, boost by 1.1x), allow Seadra to reach 348 Sp. Atk. And after 1 Agility, we're talking 538 speed here. And with a base 95 Defense, Seadra can take a physical move before using Agility. Surf for STAB, Ice Beam for sweeping purposes. The last move's your call. Signal Beam for type diversity, or Dragon Pulse if you fear Kingdra (whom, might I remind you all, is NOT weak to Ice).
There's always the shame and humiliation of having been PWNed by something that isn't even fully evolved.
Uh, no. See, the idea is to take advantage of Seadra's Sp. Atk and GOOD Defense, and its Agility move, in order to be able to sweep. Seaking, while sporting a slightly usable movepool, Agility, and decent Attack, has no good defenses of which to take advantage. Thus, this strategy is nothing like anything Seaking would be able to do. Seaking might need a sub passed to it, or to hold a Focus Sash, in order to be able to pull off an Agility. Now trust me, I've used this strategy with my own Seadra, with magnificent results.
yes, i use one as a lead in UU
Acceptable answers would've been 'I just like it' or 'it's for a theme', competitive battlers are allowed to enjoy novelty.
As it is using Golbat to showoff is plain stupid, counter-intuitive and NOT creative in anyway.
Point being again its a set that fails horrendously for using a NFE which is inferior in every possible way to its evolution. It doesn't even get to keep the Dragon typing.
What exactly stops Kingdra doing this 5x better than Seadra?
Last I checked this thread is 'Creative Movesets/EV spreads', not 'slap random half assed sweeper moveset onto crappy NFE thread.'
Also for the record Seaking has superior defenses to Seadra. Seadra may have good defense but it has bollocks for HP and Sdef. Seaking actually has great HP, good Sdef and defense which balances out with its HP. Physical Seaking isn't far off either, they hit with the same types too, Bug, Ice, Water cept Seadra has non-STAB Dragon which is a poor idea in itself and Seaking actually has a GOOD Bug attack.
Depends on why you want it to be mixed. Certainly does work though, Cacturne has high enough base offenses that even if the nature is -offense it should be respectable with STAB or if its a 4x HP.
did ether of you read this? he plans to use tem in UU crobat is banned in UU as is kingdra, the sets may be simple but he is not just being stupid.
I was thinking about the uses of Choice Scarf, and got over to a Scarf set. May I introduce...Scarfturne!
Cacturne@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
Evs: 6 HP/252 Atk./252 Spd.
Adamant Nature (+Atk. -SpAtk.)
- Seed Bomb
- Brick Break
- Return/Thunder Punch
- Faint Attack/Sucker Punch/Thunder Punch
This is an attempt to make use of Cacturne's low speed and high attack. His movepool is what really wrecks this set. Thunderpunch is available for either bottom move. With a Adamant nature, you hit 313 speed. I would try this with Toxicroak instead, but this will come first. Next time, Scarfcroak!
Cacturne@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
Evs: 6 HP/252 Atk./252 Spd.
Adamant Nature (+Atk. -SpAtk.)
- Seed Bomb
- Brick Break
- Return/Thunder Punch
- Faint Attack/Sucker Punch/Thunder Punch
This is an attempt to make use of Cacturne's low speed and high attack. His movepool is what really wrecks this set. Thunderpunch is available for either bottom move. With a Adamant nature, you hit 313 speed. I would try this with Toxicroak instead, but this will come first. Next time, Scarfcroak!
Instead of Payback maybe Sucker Punch or some other darkmoves maybe.
I don't want Sucker Punch too much since they could set up on me, but I will consider it.
EDIT: I lurk so much, I'm at 110! woot woot!
EDIT: I lurk so much, I'm at 110! woot woot!
Most OU NFE's also happen to not be accepted in UU not because they're effective but as they offer nothing new besides watered down versions of their evolutions so that point is moot.
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