SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

Realistically it's likely that the details of the stories of the Tao dragons are something that Drayden is only willing to disclose to a person he trusts with such knowledge, which would explain why Juniper says Drayden probably won't talk to you unless you beat him. Since he's a strong Gym Leader, you beating him means you both prove your strength and your own character, that you are a Trainer who treats their Pokemon well and has a good heart, and thus someone he can trust to tell you the details of the story.

Especially when you consider he had possession of an artifact related to Kyurem that involves its fusion/separation with Reshiram or Zekrom and he's been keeping guard of it for his entire life, having it passed down along his bloodline, and he admits he does not fully comprehend its power himself. So he likely does not want the knowledge of the legends of Unova or the artifact that he has to be given into the wrong hands, especially with Team Plasma still being around, so he's secretive about it unless you can prove that you can be trusted with such information, and beating him in a Gym Battle is the way you earn that trust.
 
Did they ever explain what the Watchtowers were all around Paldea? Like, I know their meta function was to provide Fly spots, and are pretty much the main locations to catch Gimmighoul (and also a chunk of coins), but I can't remember if there was any lore attached to them. We know Paldea had an old kingdom which collapsed, were these Watchtowers a part of the old kingdom? What were their function? Why do they have different amount of platforms ranging from one to three? Does Gimmighoul appearing their have any significance?
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Did they ever explain what the Watchtowers were all around Paldea? Like, I know their meta function was to provide Fly spots, and are pretty much the main locations to catch Gimmighoul (and also a chunk of coins), but I can't remember if there was any lore attached to them. We know Paldea had an old kingdom which collapsed, were these Watchtowers a part of the old kingdom? What were their function? Why do they have different amount of platforms ranging from one to three? Does Gimmighoul appearing their have any significance?
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They don't directly explain them but yes they probably were from the old kingdom, where they acted as. Watchtowers. Presumably. There's usually other ruins nearby so there probably used to be other buildings and settlements beyond what became the nearby towns.

Gimmighoul shows up on them because they're ruins and htey like to hang out in old places tat presumably have those gold coins and such.
 
So, patterns in Pokemon....people just love to find them. And I think a lot of them are, for the most part, just equal parts coincidental or are so broad that they aren't very convincing. And any given "pattern" has often been broken or tweaked
Only ones to really, truly count on (& and even those are subject to change, especially if you get granular about the details) are probably the 3-stage F/W/G starters, the 3 stage psuedo, and we're getting 2 Box Legends




And also odd generations have new mushroom Pokemon. Parasect, Breloom, Amoongus, Shiinotic, Brute Bonnet + Toedscruel....?????

How does this keep happening. Like coincidences sure fine, we have those all the time, but really? Not a single mushroom was thought of for any of the even generations? Not even a regional form, mega evolution, or g-max? Every single time a mushroom was thought of, it was in the context of an odd generation?? Or even just felt like NOT making a new mushroom Pokemon in an odd gen? Got a lot of those guys as it is after all, could easily skip one it wouldn't be that weird.
 
R_N said:
And also odd generations have new mushroom Pokemon. Parasect, Breloom, Amoongus, Shiinotic, Brute Bonnet + Toedscruel....?????
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I went to check if this was due to sleep/spore nerfs, and ironically, it seems they do NOT introduce a new thing that knows Spore in generations where Spore has been nerfed and do introduce a mushroom if Sleep is particularly bad.
Gen 1: 1-7 turns, wasted turn after waking up.
Gen 2: 1-6 turns, no wasted turn, Sleep Talk/Snore exist.
Gen 3: 1-5 turns, glitch makes it last longer than expected if you use Sleep Talk/Snore.
Gen 4: Glitch fixed
Gen 5: 1-3 turns, but reset on switchout which makes it particularly awful.
Gen 6: Overcoat/Grass/Safety Goggles make you immune to Spore, sleep counter does not reset on switch
Gen 7-9: No further changes.
 
RocketSurgery said:
With confirmation of Walking Wake's typing, I am now all in on my conspiracy theory that slither wing was originally designed to be bug/dragon but they decided that the scarlet paradoxes were already slaying so hard that they couldn't make 3 of them dragons (not counting the raidons), and so they nerfed the little slithery guy. :(

And just to twist the knife they made it part fighting, the most overrepresented paradox type :P
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The confirmation that Raging Bolt is part dragon and a likely paradox entei will almost certainly be part dragon too just further fuels this conspiracy theory of mine that slither wing was meant to be our first bug/dragon but got screwed over because they didn't want too many dragon type past paradoxes. Wish they'd taken the dragon type from roaring moon instead. :P
 
A comment in a different thread got me to thinking about trainer classes: namely, their relation to one another. An interview to promote Gold and Silver mentioned that Schoolboys grow up to be Super Nerds, while Lasses grow up to be Beauties. There seems to be a conceptual link between Beauties and Swimmers too - in Gen I, female Swimmers do not exist so all female trainers encountered in water routes are Beauties, while in Emerald two elderly female move tutors brag about their past glory, with one having being a renowned Beauty and the other a famously tough Swimmer.

This is an interesting idea, and makes me wonder how many other NPC classes are supposed to be connected in this way. Tubers, for instance, would seem to be younger versions of Swimmers, and are sometimes found paired with them in sea routes as "Sis and Bro" in the Kanto and Hoenn games. It's pretty much confirmed that Bug Maniacs are basically just older versions of Bug Catchers, who fittingly use stronger and/or more evolved Bugs like Parasect, Pinsir, and Ninjask. In Gen V at least, Experts appear to be older Ace Trainers. Pokefans are presumably grown-up Pokekids, or at least the parents of said children. Presumably Gentlemen and Socialities are older Rich Boys/Ladies.

Several trainers often have overlap while being distinct: Bikers and Roughnecks/Cue Balls often hang out together, while Collectors and Pokemaniacs have a lot in common but are generally considered to be different.

Any others I'm missing? I'm specifically thinking of the main series since the GameCube and Wii games have a whole separate system of trainer categories.
 
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I'm partial into believing Veterans in X/Y and S/M are grown up Rising Stars, or at least that their designs are meant to be similar to each other.

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Tourists in X/Y are explicitly based on Japanese Tourists in France, with all of the ones outside of the Battle Mansion having Japanese names and using Pokemon from Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, but never from Unova.

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QuentinQuonce said:
A comment in a different thread got me to thinking about trainer classes: namely, their relation to one another. An interview to promote Gold and Silver mentioned that Schoolboys grow up to be Super Nerds, while Lasses grow up to be Beauties. There seems to be a conceptual link between Beauties and Swimmers too - in Gen I, female Swimmers do not exist so all female trainers encountered in water routes are Beauties, while in Emerald two elderly female move tutors brag about their past glory, with one having being a renowned Beauty and the other a famously tough Swimmer.

This is an interesting idea, and makes me wonder how many other NPC classes are supposed to be connected in this way. Tubers, for instance, would seem to be younger versions of Swimmers, and are sometimes found paired with them in sea routes as "Sis and Bro" in the Kanto and Hoenn games. It's pretty much confirmed that Bug Maniacs are basically just older versions of Bug Catchers, who fittingly use stronger and/or more evolved Bugs like Parasect, Pinsir, and Ninjask. In Gen V at least, Experts appear to be older Ace Trainers. Pokefans are presumably grown-up Pokekids, or at least the parents of said children. Presumably Gentlemen and Socialities are older Rich Boys/Ladies.

Several trainers often have overlap while being distinct: Bikers and Roughnecks/Cue Balls often hang out together, while Collectors and Pokemaniacs have a lot in common but are generally considered to be different.

Any others I'm missing? I'm specifically thinking of the main series since the GameCube and Wii games have a whole separate system of trainer categories.
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Old Couples and Young Couples seem like a decent shout, although Old Couples are depicted as pairs of Experts in RSE/ORAS (the only games where the class appears), while Young Couples have always had a unique dual sprite that doesn't correspond to any individual trainer classes.

Triathletes are also an interesting one. I feel like they were introduced in Hoenn primarily as a way to include cycling trainers to populate Cycling Road. Why not just introduce 'Cyclists' then, like they did a generation later? Idk maybe they wanted a more competitive/sporting vibe to go with the Mach Bike challenge. Also, being rugged and outdoorsy is one of Hoenn's key traits as a region (and also one of its greatest strengths in terms of aesthetic and vibe imo), so the introduction of Triathletes may reflect how travelling through Hoenn requires some level of physical strength and endurance. Anyway, in terms of related classes, they exist in the water alongside the classic Swimmers and Tubers. Triathletes in the water don't seem to be any stronger as trainers than their more casual counterparts. As mentioned, Gen 4 introduced Cyclists, but also Joggers, completing the trifecta and leaving Triathletes as a Hoenn-exclusive class.

Sr. and Jr. pairs and Schoolboys/Schoolgirls don't seem to have any thematic connection beyond them all being students. The latter are generally depicted as studious, often telling the player about mechanics in their dialogue, while the former tend to just be stereotypes of teenage girls/female friendships.

Might add more if I think of them
 
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Cobalt Empoleon said:
Sr. and Jr. pairs and Schoolboys/Schoolgirls don't seem to have any thematic connection beyond them all being students. The latter are generally depicted as studious, often telling the player about mechanics in their dialogue, while the former tend to just be stereotypes of teenage girls/female friendships.
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Sr. and Jr. is actually Senpai and Kouhai in Japanese. The closest thing to it would be calling it Upperclassman and Lowerclassman, but this type of relationship, which barely has any presence outside of Japanese culture, is quite different from friendship. Basically the Senpai(Upperclassman) is supposed to be the responsible one and teach their Kouhai(Underclassman) the ropes of whatever they have in common. The translation I gave of upper/lower classman isn't completely accurate, because it's not only used in school settings but also in the workplace or sometimes the Senpai can merely be more experienced in a shared profession or hobby without having to always work directly with the Kouhai, or even just merely be the Kouhai's predecessor for the role or title they have. Actual Age also isn't a factor on who is the Senpai or who is the Kohai, because the length of time one has been a part of something is the only thing that really determines that.

It's a very Japanese thing and the Gen III translation of the name was pretty clunky so I'm not surprised ORAS gave up directly translating it entirely.
 
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Nokocchi said:
Sr. and Jr. is actually Senpai and Kouhai in Japanese. The closest thing to it would be calling it Upperclassman and Lowerclassman, but this type of relationship, which barely has any presence outside of Japanese culture, is quite different from friendship. Basically the Senpai(Upperclassman) is supposed to be the responsible to to teach their Kouhai(Underclassman) the ropes of whatever they have in common. The translation I gave of upper/lower classman isn't completely accurate, because it's not only used in school settings but also in the workplace or sometimes the Senpai can merely be more experienced in a shared profession or hobby without having to always work directly with the Kouhai, or even just merely be the Kouhai's predecessor for the role or title they have. Actual Age also isn't a factor on who is the Senpai or who is the Kohai, because the length of time one has been a part of something is the only thing that really determines that.

It's a very Japanese thing and the Gen III translation of the name was pretty clunky so I'm not surprised ORAS gave up directly translating it entirely.
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Haha I considered going into the senpai/kōhai stuff because I suspected that if I didn't someone would reply with an explanation assuming (fairly) that I didn't know, but decided to treat the English translations as their own thing for the purpose of this discussion. My mistake I guess!
 
In typical fashion, I posted something in a different thread which prompted me to post about a whole other topic in another thread. So let's have at it!

Since day one Pokemon Go has featured certain Pokemon with a massively outsized evolution cost relative to other species. Initially, this was limited to Magikarp alone, but it's since expanded to include Wailmer, Swablu, Noibat, Stufful, Wimpod, Larvesta, and Meltan.

For those who don't play, most evolutions in PoGo work on a standard basis: Pokemon which evolve once typically require 50 candies to evolve (occasionally with an additional item or quest thrown in, such as the Metal Coat for Onix or walking 10km for Bonsly). Pokemon which evolve twice typically require 25 candies for their first evolution, and then 100 for the second (again sometimes with the aid of an item, such as the King's Rock for Politoed or the Dragon Scale for Kingdra).

Some exceptions do exist: weaker, more common Pokemon such as Ledyba have a reduced cost of 25 candy to evolve, while Pidgey, Caterpie, and Weedle similarly only need 12 candy for their first evolution and 50 for their second. Azurill only requires 25 candy for both its evolutions. Several two-stage Pokemon like Accelgor and Ambipom do need 100 candy instead of 50 to evolve.

So looking at the 400-candy crew, it's evident enough why most of them have this requirement:
  • Magikarp, Wimpod, and Larvesta all reflect the extra effort needed to evolve them in the main series
  • Wailmer feels like a slight meme pick, but it's a nod to Wailord being the largest Pokemon in the series
  • It's generally accepted that Swablu and Noibat being part of this group reflects Niantic's general efforts to make Dragon the most elusive type, as well as Noibat's incredibly high evolution level in the main series. Each of the eighteen types has a catching medal that slightly increases the catch rate for Pokemon of that type when certain numerical milestones are hit (for which obtaining Pokemon by trade and evolution both count towards the overall total); due to Dragon being the rarest type, the platinum Dragon medal is fittingly frequently the hardest to obtain. Swablu is weak and relatively common (now - like most things, it was rare when introduced) so the high evolution cost prevents players from evolving a bunch of them to artificially inflate their numbers.
  • Lastly, Meltan is a mythical Pokemon, so has a high cost to reflect this fact
Unreleased Pokemon with the 400-candy requirement are Applin (for both evolutions) and Kubfu: these fit for the same reasons covered already. Poipole and Type:Null also both have an evolution requirement of 200 candies. Obviously all of these are subject to change before release.

The odd one out in this group is... Stufful. Bewear isn't a particularly brilliant Pokemon in Pokemon Go or the main series, nor does it have a particularly onerous evolution requirement. It's particularly odd since it literally debuted during a community day with double candy, meaning that evolving it was trivial if you caught a relatively small amount (using Leppa Berries, it's 12 candy per catch), and it has been fairly common since then.

Weirdly, there's an omission here, too: Skrelp. Interestingly, when Skrelp was first datamined, it was a 400-candy evolution. Why? Because it, like Swablu, evolves into a Dragon-type. Skrelp hasn't been a vastly common Pokemon since its debut (shame, because it's a favourite of mine - though coincidentally the shiny will be available from tomorrow) but it's common enough that you could conceivably catch enough to evolve a bunch of them. It was tweaked to have the standard 50-candy evolution prior to release.


DrPumpkinz said:
What would Curse's non-Ghost effect be translated as? The original name could be read as either "curse" or "dull/slow" (Google Translate reveals the less-euphemistic "stupid" as another interpretation). But while Curse works well for a move name in English, Stupid is an adjective, which is reserved for ability names as far as I can tell.
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Perhaps "slow down" or "decelerate", or even "slump", which broadly fits what the Pokemon is doing. Agility is described as the user "relaxing and lightening its body" to become faster so Curse, having the opposite effect, could feasibly be described as the user settling down and spreading its weight/thickening its body to become stronger and sturdier.

"Stall" and "Slack Off" came to mind as well but obviously those names are taken.
 
Was going through the full list of Unova mons for the "equivalencies" thread, when I was reminded that there might be another pair of Fighting types that reference Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan. Specifically, Buzzwole learns punch moves but not kick moves, while Pheromosa learns kick moves but not punch moves. Their stats also seem to reflect the evolution requirements for their gen 1 counterparts: Buzzwole can feasibly run a defensive set (unlike Hitmonchan being stuck with base 50 HP) while Pheromosa is a pure glass cannon.

This then led to the idea that the UB-04 mons (Kartana and Celesteela) might also be based on a notable pair, but my first thought of gen 1 grass/poisons was too tenuous since the split between offense and defense is common enough to be likely coincedental.
 
QuentinQuonce said:
The odd one out in this group is... Stufful. Bewear isn't a particularly brilliant Pokemon in Pokemon Go or the main series, nor does it have a particularly onerous evolution requirement. It's particularly odd since it literally debuted during a community day with double candy, meaning that evolving it was trivial if you caught a relatively small amount (using Leppa Berries, it's 12 candy per catch), and it has been fairly common since then.
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Personal theory here, but I assume the high cost for Stufful to Bewear is similar to Wailmer to Wailord, Stufful to Bewear is a pretty notable size increase (over quadruples in height, and its weight is just under 20x higher). In addition, Bewear is portrayed as being deceptively strong in a lot of the series, the pokedex entries alone show this, but though I haven't watched much of the Alola anime, it plays a significant role with some impressive feats in that as well, fighting at least somewhat evenly against a Guzzlord from what i've read.

These combined are my theory on what led to the heightened candy cost it has

(also minor correction, it's pinap berries rather than leppa)
 
QuentinQuonce said:
In typical fashion, I posted something in a different thread which prompted me to post about a whole other topic in another thread. So let's have at it!

Since day one Pokemon Go has featured certain Pokemon with a massively outsized evolution cost relative to other species. Initially, this was limited to Magikarp alone, but it's since expanded to include Wailmer, Swablu, Noibat, Stufful, Wimpod, Larvesta, and Meltan.

For those who don't play, most evolutions in PoGo work on a standard basis: Pokemon which evolve once typically require 50 candies to evolve (occasionally with an additional item or quest thrown in, such as the Metal Coat for Onix or walking 10km for Bonsly). Pokemon which evolve twice typically require 25 candies for their first evolution, and then 100 for the second (again sometimes with the aid of an item, such as the King's Rock for Politoed or the Dragon Scale for Kingdra).

Some exceptions do exist: weaker, more common Pokemon such as Ledyba have a reduced cost of 25 candy to evolve, while Pidgey, Caterpie, and Weedle similarly only need 12 candy for their first evolution and 50 for their second. Azurill only requires 25 candy for both its evolutions. Several two-stage Pokemon like Accelgor and Ambipom do need 100 candy instead of 50 to evolve.

So looking at the 400-candy crew, it's evident enough why most of them have this requirement:
  • Magikarp, Wimpod, and Larvesta all reflect the extra effort needed to evolve them in the main series
  • Wailmer feels like a slight meme pick, but it's a nod to Wailord being the largest Pokemon in the series
  • It's generally accepted that Swablu and Noibat being part of this group reflects Niantic's general efforts to make Dragon the most elusive type, as well as Noibat's incredibly high evolution level in the main series. Each of the eighteen types has a catching medal that slightly increases the catch rate for Pokemon of that type when certain numerical milestones are hit (for which obtaining Pokemon by trade and evolution both count towards the overall total); due to Dragon being the rarest type, the platinum Dragon medal is fittingly frequently the hardest to obtain. Swablu is weak and relatively common (now - like most things, it was rare when introduced) so the high evolution cost prevents players from evolving a bunch of them to artificially inflate their numbers.
  • Lastly, Meltan is a mythical Pokemon, so has a high cost to reflect this fact
Unreleased Pokemon with the 400-candy requirement are Applin (for both evolutions) and Kubfu: these fit for the same reasons covered already. Poipole and Type:Null also both have an evolution requirement of 200 candies. Obviously all of these are subject to change before release.

The odd one out in this group is... Stufful. Bewear isn't a particularly brilliant Pokemon in Pokemon Go or the main series, nor does it have a particularly onerous evolution requirement. It's particularly odd since it literally debuted during a community day with double candy, meaning that evolving it was trivial if you caught a relatively small amount (using Leppa Berries, it's 12 candy per catch), and it has been fairly common since then.

Weirdly, there's an omission here, too: Skrelp. Interestingly, when Skrelp was first datamined, it was a 400-candy evolution. Why? Because it, like Swablu, evolves into a Dragon-type. Skrelp hasn't been a vastly common Pokemon since its debut (shame, because it's a favourite of mine - though coincidentally the shiny will be available from tomorrow) but it's common enough that you could conceivably catch enough to evolve a bunch of them. It was tweaked to have the standard 50-candy evolution prior to release.
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Some additional notes for context to non-Go players
- Noibat also had a Community Day similar to Stufful, even if not with the Double Candy it was spawning very frequently to get one stockpiled during that time
- Meltan is a Mythical but you can also span 30+ of them with the Box every 3 days if you're doing Home/Switch transfers (which you can do easily on that frequency with any junk)
- Skrelp may have been changed because outside of events or rare seasonal spawns, it's only available through 12km eggs I believe, which are a task to hunt down (need to fight a Rocket Leader who in turn needs 6 grunts to get a Radar, then have an open slot to receive the egg), are the longest to hatch, and obviously are only a chance of Skrelp out of the pool. Niantic may have decided that was excessive for Dragalge who's just okay and didn't have a shiny until this Go Fest.


Mex said:
Personal theory here, but I assume the high cost for Stufful to Bewear is similar to Wailmer to Wailord, Stufful to Bewear is a pretty notable size increase (over quadruples in height, and its weight is just under 20x higher). In addition, Bewear is portrayed as being deceptively strong in a lot of the series, the pokedex entries alone show this, but though I haven't watched much of the Alola anime, it plays a significant role with some impressive feats in that as well, fighting at least somewhat evenly against a Guzzlord from what i've read.

These combined are my theory on what led to the heightened candy cost it has

(also minor correction, it's pinap berries rather than leppa)
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Specifically on the Alola anime, Bewear is shown fighting the Ultra Beasts evenly if not winning (Grapples Buzzwole for literally half an episode, curbstomps a Pheromosa, and has the upperhand on Guzzlord until it takes bad shots protecting its cub), although that depends on if you chalk that up to the species and "Mama Bear" concept, or just that specific Bewear where its being absurdly strong is usually for comedy. Notably most of the UB's aren't battled directly by the cast, and those that are tend to be a combined effort (the Guzzlord Bewear took on was fought by the Kahunas, the first Shiny one needed a Z-move combination from all of Ash's Classmates plus Hau and Gladion, and the last one was fought back by Ash and Masked-Royal-Kukui), so being able to 1v1 them consistently is supposed to indicate strength clearly.
 
Mex said:
Personal theory here, but I assume the high cost for Stufful to Bewear is similar to Wailmer to Wailord, Stufful to Bewear is a pretty notable size increase (over quadruples in height, and its weight is just under 20x higher). In addition, Bewear is portrayed as being deceptively strong in a lot of the series, the pokedex entries alone show this, but though I haven't watched much of the Alola anime, it plays a significant role with some impressive feats in that as well, fighting at least somewhat evenly against a Guzzlord from what i've read.

These combined are my theory on what led to the heightened candy cost it has

(also minor correction, it's pinap berries rather than leppa)
Click to expand...

To think I've played that damn game since 2016 and got that wrong

pika pal said:
Some additional notes for context to non-Go players
- Noibat also had a Community Day similar to Stufful, even if not with the Double Candy it was spawning very frequently to get one stockpiled during that time
- Meltan is a Mythical but you can also span 30+ of them with the Box every 3 days if you're doing Home/Switch transfers (which you can do easily on that frequency with any junk)
- Skrelp may have been changed because outside of events or rare seasonal spawns, it's only available through 12km eggs I believe, which are a task to hunt down (need to fight a Rocket Leader who in turn needs 6 grunts to get a Radar, then have an open slot to receive the egg), are the longest to hatch, and obviously are only a chance of Skrelp out of the pool. Niantic may have decided that was excessive for Dragalge who's just okay and didn't have a shiny until this Go Fest.
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Re Stufful, my point was that Stufful literally debuted with its community day. It had a high cost but you could evolve it from the off; the same is not true of any other 400-candy mon

Re Skrelp, yes but no. Pretty much everything is rare initially and Skrelp has been in 5KM eggs at various points - it's also been part of events. Swablu was rare too when it was added, but that changed over time as most things tend to. I'd imagine Skrelp won't stay in 12KMs forever, much as I imagine Pancham will be in the wild eventually (it was briefly during Go Fest). The 12KM pools are overdue a shakeup though
 
DrPumpkinz said:
What would Curse's non-Ghost effect be translated as? The original name could be read as either "curse" or "dull/slow" (Google Translate reveals the less-euphemistic "stupid" as another interpretation). But while Curse works well for a move name in English, Stupid is an adjective, which is reserved for ability names as far as I can tell.
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TBH, I've never liked Curse as a name. It works for the ghost element but doesn't for the non-ghost option. Acupuncture would be an interesting name since it still works by stabbing, but making you slower-but-better would be a reasonable thing it could do.
 
Hugin said:
TBH, I've never liked Curse as a name. It works for the ghost element but doesn't for the non-ghost option. Acupuncture would be an interesting name since it still works by stabbing, but making you slower-but-better would be a reasonable thing it could do.
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I think Curse works for the non-ghost version, getting thing X but at the cost of thing Y feels like a curse's warehouse.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
What would Curse's non-Ghost effect be translated as? The original name could be read as either "curse" or "dull/slow" (Google Translate reveals the less-euphemistic "stupid" as another interpretation). But while Curse works well for a move name in English, Stupid is an adjective, which is reserved for ability names as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

So you want an alternative English name for Curse which could relate to both its effects like its Japanese name? Here's three I thought of:

Dread: Dread is an overwhelming feeling of oncoming despair. That alone fits the Ghost-type effect, the afflicted Pokemon will no doubt be feeling dread as it slowly loses a chunk of its HP each turn. But it also fits the non-Ghost-type effect as Dread is meant to be a gradual yet building feeling of something bad is coming and you can't stop it. In this case the non-Ghost-type is causing the feeling of dread by increasing its power & endurance but slowing down, like a movie slasher which can't be stopped so steadily paces itself as it picks off targets one at a time.
Diminish: Not as strong as a word, but I still feel a plausible option. Referring to the Ghost-type effect, the effect Pokemon's HP is diminishing. And for the non-Ghost-type effect, the user is diminishing itself (via its Speed) in order to better "diminish" its opponent (by becoming bulkier and increasing its attack power).
Attrition: A word similar to diminish, it means to slowly wear down something. No need to explain the Ghost-type effect relation. As for the non-Ghost-type, the word's best known use is the military terms "attrition warfare" or "war of attrition". What that means is that the side using this tactic is purposely slowing things down/dragging things out so that the opponent wears itself down in performance and resources. So, for a non-Ghost-type, they're pulling their own "attrition warfare" in a way by slowing themselves down in which case they can then wear down the opponent with its increased defense and attack power.

Honestly, as R_N said, I feel "Curse" is alright as is. Not just in the case of "exchanging x for y", but I like the mental image of the non-Ghost-type yelling out obscenities at the target, something which slows it down as its focus is now mouthing off but increasing its rage (the adrenaline rush increasing its endurance to hits and having it hit harder).
Back in my glory days when I came out onto the field the opponent's knees trembled like the Sprout Tower in an earthquake. Cause they knew once I began cursin' they were F***ED. They p***ed me off and were about to find out how far up s*** creak they were without a paddle. Oh, they tried to take me down, they'd rushed up to me and begin swinging. But I was so p***ed I neither noticed nor cared, cause when it then came time for me to get to work I wrecked their s*** in REAL good. I'm talking no. F***ING. Mercy. But then they came out with Abilities, and basing a Move's category on what it did, and new bulky and hard-hitting competition. UGH, f***ing p****ies. WELL I'LL SHOW THE A THING OR TWO WHEN I KICK THEIR CRYING B*** A** BACK TO...
SarcasticRichAnkole.jpg


:changry: Sir, this is a Pokemon Center...

QuentinQuonce said:
The odd one out in this group is... Stufful. Bewear isn't a particularly brilliant Pokemon in Pokemon Go or the main series, nor does it have a particularly onerous evolution requirement. It's particularly odd since it literally debuted during a community day with double candy, meaning that evolving it was trivial if you caught a relatively small amount (using Leppa Berries, it's 12 candy per catch), and it has been fairly common since then.

Weirdly, there's an omission here, too: Skrelp. Interestingly, when Skrelp was first datamined, it was a 400-candy evolution. Why? Because it, like Swablu, evolves into a Dragon-type. Skrelp hasn't been a vastly common Pokemon since its debut (shame, because it's a favourite of mine - though coincidentally the shiny will be available from tomorrow) but it's common enough that you could conceivably catch enough to evolve a bunch of them. It was tweaked to have the standard 50-candy evolution prior to release.
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EDIT: I originally wrote a response but then saw most others beat me to the punch here. I'll still post it since I typed it all out.
Maybe Stufful was also a meme choice of sorts. Bewear's role in the anime (as well of its shockingly dark Pokedex entries in the games) made it seem like an unstoppable force of plush mascot. Now whether it actually reached this threat level I don't know (according to Smogon's Strategy Dex, no), but I can see them pushing that narrative especially if they were giving it a special community day that made getting enough candy to evolve it easier. And they likely don't want to lower it cause it'll get people who did get the 400 required Candy to evolve it angry and demanding some compensation, so it now remains a relic of a of-the-moment choice (aka a similar problem many Pokemon have, especially Gen V).

I can only assume Skrelp was decreased because by then there were now plenty of Dragon-types that getting the Dragon-type medal was no longer such a major accomplishment. When Swablu was released there was only the Dratini family, Horsea family, and then also added the Flygon and Bagon family (I'm assuming this, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There were so few Dragon-types they likely felt it would cheapen the medal if Swablu could be used to farm Dragon-types. But by the time of Gen VI? They would have added the Gabite family, Axew family, Druddigon, and Deino family. They were now plenty of Dragon-types, in addition to Noibat and Goomy also being added (or were to be added). It just wasn't worth being so gatekeepy anymore. Noibat being 400 is an oddity, but already being a Dragon-type I wonder it's another issue why it's so high, like maybe they were worried Boomburst was going to be so powerful?
 
Pikachu315111 said:
I can only assume Skrelp was decreased because by then there were now plenty of Dragon-types that getting the Dragon-type medal was no longer such a major accomplishment. When Swablu was released there was only the Dratini family, Horsea family, and then also added the Flygon and Bagon family (I'm assuming this, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There were so few Dragon-types they likely felt it would cheapen the medal if Swablu could be used to farm Dragon-types. But by the time of Gen VI? They would have added the Gabite family, Axew family, Druddigon, and Deino family. They were now plenty of Dragon-types, in addition to Noibat and Goomy also being added (or were to be added). It just wasn't worth being so gatekeepy anymore. Noibat being 400 is an oddity, but already being a Dragon-type I wonder it's another issue why it's so high, like maybe they were worried Boomburst was going to be so powerful?
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In terms of other Dragons released when Swablu was, Rayquaza was introduced on the very same day as one of the absolute easiest raid bosses of the time, I remember people saying that Rayquaza was a more efficient way of farming the dragon medal than evolving Swablu, despite requiring a raid pass per encounter. Bagon was also released the same day, and Trapinch a couple weeks earlier, the only dragons as of Gen 3 unavailable at the time were the Latis which came about two months later

The big thing, though, was that they hosted a Dratini community day just over 2 weeks after Swablu's release, which was easily the best way to get the medal up to gold and made Swablu farming nowhere close to even a consideration for people who were able to play


For Noibat, it's still pathetically weak as a Noibat, and I'm fairly certain boomburst being too good was not a consideration with its normal typing being a major hindrance by default. It's probably just to do with it being a weak pokemon that's a major challenge in the main series to raise to evolution.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
I can only assume Skrelp was decreased because by then there were now plenty of Dragon-types that getting the Dragon-type medal was no longer such a major accomplishment. When Swablu was released there was only the Dratini family, Horsea family, and then also added the Flygon and Bagon family (I'm assuming this, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There were so few Dragon-types they likely felt it would cheapen the medal if Swablu could be used to farm Dragon-types. But by the time of Gen VI? They would have added the Gabite family, Axew family, Druddigon, and Deino family. They were now plenty of Dragon-types, in addition to Noibat and Goomy also being added (or were to be added). It just wasn't worth being so gatekeepy anymore. Noibat being 400 is an oddity, but already being a Dragon-type I wonder it's another issue why it's so high, like maybe they were worried Boomburst was going to be so powerful?
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Disagree, Dragon is still majorly gatekept. The idea that it's "not worth gatekeeping it anymore" fails to account for newer players: they're not going to make it easy for someone who started playing yesterday to get a Gible just because a day-one player probably has hundreds of them.

Every Dragon has been intentionally extremely elusive following its release, particularly the pseudo-legends: Gible was incredibly rare until it had a community day, and even now is a very uncommon wild spawn; the same is true of Deino. Axew is not a psuedo-legendary but notoriously was one of the rarest Pokemon in the game until they put it in Go Fest then gave it a community day this year. Goomy is currently exceptionally rare in the wild and Jangmo-o is basically nonexistent: the current event starting today is a Dragon/Poison-themed one and Goomy is not a part of it at all while a single Jangmo-o is being hyped as the final reward from completing the free research quest.

For the others: Druddigon and Turtonator are only available through raids (likely to remain the case for years based on the precedent set by Absol, Mawile, Alolan Raichu, Galarian Weezing, Pancham, and others) while Noibat was nonexistent in the wild when it first debuted; for a good couple of years it was something you'd be extremely lucky to see and usually late at night to boot. Trapinch, Horsea, and Skrelp are all highly uncommon species - of all the non-Dragons that evolve into one Swablu is, as I said, the most common but has the massive evolution cost to offset that. The fact that Applin may also have the same evolution cost indicates that this is something that will be maintained going forward.

I've actually found Tyrunt fairly abundant since its release, but that might be anecdotal - it's allegedly more common during the day, and Rock-boosting weather is extremely frequent where I live. Otherwise it's not unusual for me to go weeks without seeing a Dragon-type in the wild. The Dragon-type Team Rocket Grunt iirc has an appearance rate of less than 1% according to TSR's research.

Additionally, while a lot of rarer Pokemon start off in 10KM eggs and eventually get "downgraded" to lower-distance eggs (Mareep, Pineco, Eevee, Onix, Scyther, Pinsir, Sableye, Skarmory, Ralts, Feebas, et al) Dragon-types tend to stay in 10KM eggs except for events. These are the current 10KM pools, for reference - Horsea, Trapinch, Swablu, and Noibat are not currently in any eggs while Skrelp, of course, is in 12KM eggs.

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