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DrPumpkinz said:
Why is it a convergent and not just a regional form? It's not like Wiglett or Toedscool where it's a completely unrelated species. It's still a ghost possessing tea and a teapot, just with different tea. How is that any different from Galarian Yamask?
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With this in particular I wonder if it just comes down to not wanting to just call it "Kitakami Form"
The whole situation with Kitakami continues to be weird. It's part of Paldea (it has to, for Terastalization) but it also is its own Land (there's non-Paldean Wooper, they keep saying "Land of Kitakami") but also it is NOT a region dont confuse it.
 
R_N said:
With this in particular I wonder if it just comes down to not wanting to just call it "Kitakami Form"
The whole situation with Kitakami continues to be weird. It's part of Paldea (it has to, for Terastalization) but it also is its own Land (there's non-Paldean Wooper, they keep saying "Land of Kitakami") but also it is NOT a region dont confuse it.
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I'm on the theory that regional forms ironically lock Pokemon out of being truly tied to a region. No matter how hard a regional form is pushed, it's forever tied to the OG form. Alolan Ninetales and Exeggutor are never going to be part of the Alolan section of the National Dex, just forms of the Kantonian ones. Regional exclusive evolutions and convergent species defy that, so Pokemon like Obtsagoon and Toedscruel are tied exclusively to their region.
 
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DrPumpkinz said:
Why is it a convergent and not just a regional form? It's not like Wiglett or Toedscool where it's a completely unrelated species. It's still a ghost possessing tea and a teapot, just with different tea. How is that any different from Galarian Yamask?
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I was a bit thrown off at first but it seems its not actually tea - Matcha is used to make but Poltchageist seems to just be matcha powder. Even so, there's cases where similar irl animals are still convergent - Toucans and Hornbills for instance are both similar looking birds, but they are not closely related. Could be something like that here where they are both possesed pots that look similar but aren't related

That said though I do get the point that they could easily have worked this one into a regional moreso than the other two previous examples we've had. Just saying its not completely ilogical for it to be a convergent mon
 
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DrPumpkinz said:
Why is it a convergent and not just a regional form? It's not like Wiglett or Toedscool where it's a completely unrelated species. It's still a ghost possessing tea and a teapot, just with different tea. How is that any different from Galarian Yamask?
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I think it comes down to having a different origin story.

Broadly speaking, ghosts aren’t products of evolution, but rather are produced when lingering spirits become fixated on something material. Poltchageist was born of a tea master’s frustration and regret, whereas Sinistea is just a lonely lost soul that settled into some leftover tea. They have different points of origin (originating from different people experiencing different emotions), but the end result is similar — which is what convergent evolution is, no?
 
Calling it now - unlike Wiglett and Toedscool, Poltchageist is a 1-stage that resembles Sinistea but has Polteageist’s stats. Essentially the convergent equivalent of Scream Tail, and that’s why it isn’t named something like “Sinestcha”.

Oh, also, on the above topic: Sinistea is a poltergeist that directly possesses the tea itself according to the Pokédex, (even though it clearly manipulates the facial expression on its cup it resides in), but Poltchageist is ironically instead a tsukimogami or onryo which directly posesses the tea caddy and just manipulates the matcha inside it. That’s why it’s convergent; it’s not the same kind of ghost, just one that seems similar at a glance.
 
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R_N said:
With this in particular I wonder if it just comes down to not wanting to just call it "Kitakami Form"
The whole situation with Kitakami continues to be weird. It's part of Paldea (it has to, for Terastalization) but it also is its own Land (there's non-Paldean Wooper, they keep saying "Land of Kitakami") but also it is NOT a region dont confuse it.
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I'm gonna be frank, there's really nothing about the Terastal phenomenon that dictates it can only be used in Paldea. It's not like Dynamax where not only was the Dynamax phenomenon only seen in Galar, it was a case where even within the region itself it was only usable in certain power spots scattered across the region.

Kitakami and Blueberry Academy are both noted to be entirely separate landmasses away from Paldea. The Blueberry Academy is noted to be a place where you're "studying abroad", aka overseas in a foreign place, thus denoting the BB Academy to be foreign. and Kitakami is also foreign to Paldea. Neither are a totally new region or a new generation, but are both completely separate lands from Paldea.

Terastal was believed to have been found in Paldea and only seen there but there's nothing stopping Game Freak from saying "nah that's a lie, it's elsewhere with its own lore", and since Ogerpon is tied to Terastal as much as Terapagos seemingly, that would explain why a distant land like Kitakami has the Terastal phenomenon.

Case in point is Mega Evolution, which was originally stated in X and Y to have only been found in Kalos, but then ORAS came into the picture and proceeded to go "hah nope, Hoenn has Mega Evolution energy and Mega Stones too!" with its own separate lore about how it got there, different from how it got into Kalos.

Really I think it's just a matter of Game Freak having a shift in philosophy and these supposed "convergent" species, ie two unrelated species who became similar, being what they want to do now. Regional forms have definitely taken a backseat this gen with only Wooper and Tauros being such, while they have given more focus to convergents (Wiglett and Toedscool for instance), Paradox Pokemon, and a return of traditional new evolutions such as Dudunsparce, Farigiraf, Annihilape, Kingambit, and now Dipplin and Archaludon. Regional forms are something they are shifting away from, and they've felt they've done everything they wanted to for now in Alola, Galar, and Hisui, and are now trying out new concepts in terms of designs.
 
If this thing is supposed to evolve, I wonder if its stats will be closer to sinistea’s or polteageist’s. The former seems more likely, but with stronger pokemon like bisharp and duralodon getting evolutions this generation I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a similar situation to galarian Mr mime, especially since it already shares a typing with polteageist.

Also insert obligatory “I wish it wasn’t grass/ghost type” comment here.
 
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DreamPrince said:
I don’t get it.
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Gen 4 Pokémon have been around for 17 years, but the only cross-gen additions they’ve received in all that time have been a few Mega Evolutions and Origin Dialga / Palkia. (And Rotom’s new utility applications, I suppose.) No cross-gen evolutions, regional forms, convergent mons, Gigantamaxes, etc. Even with Paradox Pokémon, Gen 4 only sort of half-scored with Iron Valiant’s hybridization of Gallade, which is itself an extension of a Gen 3 family to begin with.

Meanwhile Gen 8 *just* ended last year, and already in this DLC it’s racked up two cross-gen evolutions and a convergent species.
 
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Esserise said:
Gen 4 Pokémon have been around for 17 years, but the only cross-gen additions they’ve received in all that time have been a few Mega Evolutions and Origin Dialga / Palkia. (And Rotom’s new utility applications, I suppose.) No cross-gen evolutions, regional forms, convergent mons, Gigantamaxes, etc. Even with Paradox Pokémon, Gen 4 only sort of half-scored with Iron Valiant’s hybridization of Gallade, which is itself an extension of a Gen 3 family to begin with.

Meanwhile Gen 8 *just* ended last year, and already in this DLC it’s racked up two cross-gen evolutions and a convergent species.
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To be fair, it makes some sense when you consider a huge portion of gen 4’s dex was also cross-gen evolutions of old mons to begin with. But I agree the other Pokémon deserve some love.
 
I for one was blindsided (though in a kinda good way) with the Hisuian starters, I was expecting some sort of focus at least on the Sinnoh starters. I enjoyed most of the new mons and forms, but I was a little surprised and sad more wasn’t done with original Sinnoh Pokemon - though as has been said, a large portion of them are already cross gen evo/prevos.

The only one with a Gen 4 connection was Sneasler kinda.
 
TheTraininator said:
To be fair, it makes some sense when you consider a huge portion of gen 4’s dex was also cross-gen evolutions of old mons to begin with. But I agree the other Pokémon deserve some love.
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For sure, that was probably a factor. Still though, one would think that with Legends: Arceus focusing on Sinnoh and being willing to add new cross-gen evolutions, we would have seen at least one for a proper Gen 4 family. Instead, GF seemed to be taking the route of “any new additions should be for Pokémon that didn’t appear in the original Sinnoh Dexes,” which I could sort of understand as a weirdly devout adherence to continuity, but even that doesn’t quite hold up due to Scyther and especially Sneasel getting new family members.
 
Esserise said:
For sure, that was probably a factor. Still though, one would think that with Legends: Arceus focusing on Sinnoh and being willing to add new cross-gen evolutions, we would have seen at least one for a proper Gen 4 family. Instead, GF seemed to be taking the route of “any new additions should be for Pokémon that didn’t appear in the original Sinnoh Dexes,” which I could sort of understand as a weirdly devout adherence to continuity, but even that doesn’t quite hold up due to Scyther and especially Sneasel getting new family members.
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I think the real line was just the 107 Sinnoh Pokemon wouldn't get extensions. Scyther was part of the Platinum dex but not one of the new ones, so they probably went whatever.
Sneasel is still a weird decision, but strictly speaking Weavile didn't get an evolution it got a counterpart.

I kind of wonder if the initial plan (note that beyond some concept art that makes us pull out some thinking emojis, this is pure speculation on my part) for BDSP might have been inclined to add some new form mechanic. Whether that's gmaxes (just instaretcon dynamax's galar stuff ala megas), megas or something else new, it'd have hypothetically been something to give to the Sinnoh Crew. Then BDSP could have that while LA basically stayed how it was, giving more stuff to other Pokemon and leaving the Sinnoh (beyond Dialga & Palkia and kind of Legend-Plate Arceus) untouched.

It'll be interesting to see what a hypothetical Unova game does, especially since it's kind of made out like a bandit already with regional forms, regional evolutions and even (what might be) a normal evolution. Will it also make the decision to leave them alone, will it go a new route as an excuse to continue expanding lines, will it add <ancient unova name goes here> forms as response to Hisui not doing it, etc etc
 
Interestingly, unlike Sinistea
ScraftyIsTheBest said:
I'm gonna be frank, there's really nothing about the Terastal phenomenon that dictates it can only be used in Paldea. It's not like Dynamax where not only was the Dynamax phenomenon only seen in Galar, it was a case where even within the region itself it was only usable in certain power spots scattered across the region.

Kitakami and Blueberry Academy are both noted to be entirely separate landmasses away from Paldea. The Blueberry Academy is noted to be a place where you're "studying abroad", aka overseas in a foreign place, thus denoting the BB Academy to be foreign. and Kitakami is also foreign to Paldea. Neither are a totally new region or a new generation, but are both completely separate lands from Paldea.

Terastal was believed to have been found in Paldea and only seen there but there's nothing stopping Game Freak from saying "nah that's a lie, it's elsewhere with its own lore", and since Ogerpon is tied to Terastal as much as Terapagos seemingly, that would explain why a distant land like Kitakami has the Terastal phenomenon.

Case in point is Mega Evolution, which was originally stated in X and Y to have only been found in Kalos, but then ORAS came into the picture and proceeded to go "hah nope, Hoenn has Mega Evolution energy and Mega Stones too!" with its own separate lore about how it got there, different from how it got into Kalos.

Really I think it's just a matter of Game Freak having a shift in philosophy and these supposed "convergent" species, ie two unrelated species who became similar, being what they want to do now. Regional forms have definitely taken a backseat this gen with only Wooper and Tauros being such, while they have given more focus to convergents (Wiglett and Toedscool for instance), Paradox Pokemon, and a return of traditional new evolutions such as Dudunsparce, Farigiraf, Annihilape, Kingambit, and now Dipplin and Archaludon. Regional forms are something they are shifting away from, and they've felt they've done everything they wanted to for now in Alola, Galar, and Hisui, and are now trying out new concepts in terms of designs.
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I mean with D-Max/G-Max, your band sucked up ambient Galar Particles to power the form (and it seems to be inherently more unstable than Tera or Mega given it will end on its own) whereas Terastalizing is caused by releasing a pre-collected concentrated burst of Tera Energy from the Tera Orb. There doesn't need to be ambient Tera Energy to Terastalize.

Also "Mega Energy"? That's a Go thing, in the actual canon Mega Evolution just requires the rocks, no outside energy required.
 
AztecCroc said:
Also "Mega Energy"? That's a Go thing, in the actual canon Mega Evolution just requires the rocks, no outside energy required.
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Sort of. Despite the frequent contradictions in Gen 6, the running theme with Mega Evolution is that the transformation is induced by Life Energy and the Mega Stones are essentially keys/catalysts for the transformation, with Rayquaza's ability to do so stemming from the Meteorites it consumes serving the same function internally. Infinite Energy is also frequently connected to Mega Evolution in depictions like the Manga (where it's drawn specifically out of Mega Evolved Pokemon) or powering the Ultimate Weapon that is speculated to be the cause of Kalos's Mega Stones. One could argue the contradictory themes share the thread of being a similar source through different means for the Phenomena to appear in other regions (meaning nothing obligates GF to explain Megas the same way if they want them to appear again somewhere). The energy is also in many ways rooted in Pokemon as a collective rather than a single Pokemon like Necrozma to Z-Crystals or Eternatus for Galar Particles (nice name for ensuring no portability)

Pokemon specific Mega Energy is a Go invention, but the idea of an energy related to Mega Evolution as a Phenomena is still a concept the series has done in the proper games. The other thing I would note is that Megas are vague in where the energy comes from beyond being a common factor, as is Terastal Energy pending Terapagos; however, with Megas it's related to the irradiated Stone drawing power out of the Pokemon itself, whereas Terastal seems to require the Energy be granted each use and has to be recharged at a Pokemon Center. Depending on what the source is revealed/not confirmed to be, they can anchor it to Gen 9 with a handwave of "the Power Crystals appear in Area Zero or this place in Kitikami but nowhere else" since Crystals don't "grow" like the HM they took out of the Crater
 
pika pal said:
Sort of. Despite the frequent contradictions in Gen 6, the running theme with Mega Evolution is that the transformation is induced by Life Energy and the Mega Stones are essentially keys/catalysts for the transformation, with Rayquaza's ability to do so stemming from the Meteorites it consumes serving the same function internally. Infinite Energy is also frequently connected to Mega Evolution in depictions like the Manga (where it's drawn specifically out of Mega Evolved Pokemon) or powering the Ultimate Weapon that is speculated to be the cause of Kalos's Mega Stones. One could argue the contradictory themes share the thread of being a similar source through different means for the Phenomena to appear in other regions (meaning nothing obligates GF to explain Megas the same way if they want them to appear again somewhere). The energy is also in many ways rooted in Pokemon as a collective rather than a single Pokemon like Necrozma to Z-Crystals or Eternatus for Galar Particles (nice name for ensuring no portability)
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Infinity Energy is directly produced by all Pokémon. It's not an ambient energy like how Dyanmax and Terastal work.
Life Energy is just a different name for Infinity Energy in the context of XY (literally, it's the same words for both in Japanese).

There is no outside force required for Mega Evolution, just the correct Pokémon and the correct rock.
 
AztecCroc said:
There is no outside force required for Mega Evolution, just the correct Pokémon and the correct rock.
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Yeah, even back when XY were stating that Mega Evolution had only been seen in Kalos, I never took that to mean it could only ever happen in Kalos; just that it was the only region where Mega Stones had been found, which made sense at the time because of what the game suggests about them being a product of the ultimate weapon.

I didn’t think there was anything preventing a Trainer from taking a Mega Stone and a Key Stone to another region and using Mega Evolution there. According to XY, the main limitations on Trainers using Mega Evolution were 1) scarce resources (the Mega Evolution guru only has so many Mega Rings to give out), and 2) the “intensive” training needed to master it (obviously that doesn’t apply to us as players, but Prof. Sycamore is said to have dropped out of training at the Tower of Mastery because it was too difficult for him). In fact, I feel like back then, a lot of people were assuming that Mega Evolution would become something they’d build upon for many generations, which would of course require it to be possible in other regions.
 
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