Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[Welcome to mars]

sticky web is actually a top meta defining playstyle instead a gimmick, thats crazy

Kingambit used Tera Blast!
It’s super effective!
Great Tusk lost 100% of its health!
Great Tusk fainted!

sounds like a kingambit issue, more than one mon needs to broken to justify sending tera blast to ubers, tera blast is also pretty important for lower tiers, being able to turn the tables on goodra and jolteon is what barely keeps them in check

 

[Welcome to mars]

I know im not supposed to do one liners but i kinda wanna see a metagame with gliscor but no gholdengo, it would be pretty interesting, also can’t wait for poltchageist to inevitably become a part of grassy terrain teams

 

[RaikouLover]

sounds like a kingambit issue, more than one mon needs to broken to justify sending tera blast to ubers, tera blast is also pretty important for lower tiers, being able to turn the tables on goodra and jolteon is what barely keeps them in check

Nah, this is cope. Any Pokémon can use Tera Blast to similar effect. It’s a dumb move and mechanic.

 

[658Greninja]

Nah, this is cope. Any Pokémon can use Tera Blast to similar effect. It’s a dumb move and mechanic.

I just want to point out that outside of Gambit.

The only prominent Tera Blast users are Sneasler and Moth. The others like DD Pult, Tera Flying Dnite, or Thundy-T are either too niche for people to really mind or it often rarely runs it.

Also the fact that outside of Terastilization, Tera Blast is a completely empty slot, meaning smart Tera use/management is encouraged when using it.

 

[Welcome to mars]

Nah, this is cope. Any Pokémon can use Tera Blast to similar effect. It’s a dumb move and mechanic.

but most aren’t as threatening as gambit, a surprise tera isn’t a guaranteed win and even if it was, the last meta warping threat to use tera blast was espathra, the rest just used tera for a free turn or two, so those match ups don’t excuse restricting tera blast to ubers and anything goes, especially since it is a crucial part of the things holding some metas together, its also an empty slot for physical attackers and crappy “coverage” for special attackers without tera

 

[RaikouLover]

I just want to point out that outside of Gambit.

The only prominent Tera Blast users are Sneasler and Moth. The others like DD Pult, Tera Flying Dnite, or Thundy-T are either too niche for people to really mind or it often rarely runs it.

Also the fact that outside of Terastilization, Tera Blast is a completely empty slot, meaning smart Tera use/management is encouraged when using it.

It got Volcarona and Regeleki banned. It also sees use on the rare Sandy Shocks. I don’t think Tera Blast itself is breaking the meta, but it’s surely another cheap aspect of the Tera mechanic that has no business in a serious meta. Tera Blast is whatever coverage you want it to be. How is that healthy? Because it is “fun?”

 

[Shinto7654]

If banning Tera Blast has a knockon effect of having people look at Hidden Power in older gens and deciding to ban it, that would be funny because you can basically port over the arguments for banning Tera Blast to it lol

 

[Fusion Flare]

5 - Tweedle dee and Tweedle dumb here twist the metagame to absurd degrees with hazard stacking. I’ve given both of them a five, but i’d definetly prefer action on Gliscor more than Gholdengo. Because trust me, Corviknight is NOT enough to justify this thing’s utterly straining presence on the meta. Lest we forget the classic way to rid one of Corviknight…

4 - don’t let anyone fool you, this thing is still irritating as shit to play against in Tera meta, and definetly warrants a future suspect after The Terrible Two, though this one is more solidly defined by the Tera problem than the others.

3 - Also Tera reliant, but a much better defensive typing, the speed to show for it, and Take Heart + Acid Armor sets mean that that it is incredibly easy for this to take over, and Tail Glow sets are still alive and kicking like usual. I rank it a 3 if only because of it being strictly relegated to webs (thanks ghold), as well as another pokemon on this list…

3 - A big beneficiary of the Roaring Moon ban to be sure, but this thing caught people’s eyes long before then. The meta has done nicely to adapt to its shenanigans with Grass/Dragon teras, and it offers a lot of offensive and defensive utility, so i’m less iffy on this than Manaphy.

3 - Nothing too scary for now, but when Gholdengo and Gliscor recieve the boot, it’s definetly gonna be WAY stronger, even more than it already is given that its the face of terrain offense.

Tera Blast - 1 - LMAO are you serious? the Tera situation is absolutely binary. It’s either broken or its not. Tiptoeing around the situation with a practically meaningless ban is not a worthy compromise.

 

[Ehmcee]

It got Volcarona and Regeleki banned. It also sees use on the rare Sandy Shocks. I don’t think Tera Blast itself is breaking the meta, but it’s surely another cheap aspect of the Tera mechanic that has no business in a serious meta. Tera Blast is whatever coverage you want it to be. How is that healthy? Because it is “fun?”

To say having "whatever coverage you want is unhealthy" is historically untrue, for every generation Hidden Power's been available it's been legal.
Now it's obviously somewhat different because Tera Blast effectively has 2x base power (80 + 40 from stab compared to HP's 60), as well as having the option of being physical or special, but you cannot say that just the ability to pick a coverage type makes Tera Blast "Unhealthy".

All users of Tera Blast are mainly good due to the exceptional factors they possess aside from being able to gain a coverage move:

- Kingambit: SD/Sucker with access to Supreme Overlord, has the bulk to be a dedicated tera Pokemon

- Sneasler: Unburden + an insane speed stat with access to SD, it doesn't take a genius to figure out how this combo is good

- Iron Moth: Booster Speed + Fiery Dance = Good, not to mention Moth's already very respectable coverage

Tera Blast is an extremely commital move to run on a moveset, by running it you're essentially dictating: "This will be the Pokemon I tera during most games, since if I don't tera it, I'm wasting a moveslot." Even on offensive teams you can't afford to run more than like, 2 mons with the move, because then you get bloat due to only being able to Tera a mon.

If you're running into a game already pre-deciding which Pokemon of yours is most likely to Tera, then that means that Pokemon individually potentially has broken aspects to it, Tera Blast on it's own isn't the issue.

I think the ban on Tera Blast is at least somewhat analogous to people wanting a Booster Energy ban, it's an option only a very select few Pokemon viably run, has an extreme opportunity cost (booster is only available on first switchin, while Tera Blast takes up a moveslot if you don't Tera), and are factors that make some of the top Pokemon as good as they are, but would have a very large number of domino effects affecting other mons.

TLDR:

Don't artifically nerf Pokemon by banning an aspect that's good on a select few, who are already dominating viability-wise

 

[Welcome to mars]

5 - Tweedle dee and Tweedle dumb here twist the metagame to absurd degrees with hazard stacking. I’ve given both of them a five, but i’d definetly prefer action on Gliscor more than Gholdengo. Because trust me, Corviknight is NOT enough to justify this thing’s utterly straining presence on the meta. Lest we forget the classic way to rid one of Corviknight…

4 - don’t let anyone fool you, this thing is still irritating as shit to play against in Tera meta, and definetly warrants a future suspect after The Terrible Two, though this one is more solidly defined by the Tera problem than the others.

3 - Also Tera reliant, but a much better defensive typing, the speed to show for it, and Take Heart + Acid Armor sets mean that that it is incredibly easy for this to take over, and Tail Glow sets are still alive and kicking like usual. I rank it a 3 if only because of it being strictly relegated to webs (thanks ghold), as well as another pokemon on this list…

3 - A big beneficiary of the Roaring Moon ban to be sure, but this thing caught people’s eyes long before then. The meta has done nicely to adapt to its shenanigans with Grass/Dragon teras, and it offers a lot of offensive and defensive utility, so i’m less iffy on this than Manaphy.

3 - Nothing too scary for now, but when Gholdengo and Gliscor recieve the boot, it’s definetly gonna be WAY stronger, even more than it already is given that its the face of terrain offense.

Tera Blast - 1 - LMAO are you serious? the Tera situation is absolutely binary. It’s either broken or its not. Tiptoeing around the situation with a practically meaningless ban is not a worthy compromise.

Magnezone needs speed evs just to outspeed corv so it doesn’t u turn, but he also needs his bulk, alot of it since its so slow, so its a dilemma for a C tier mon, sorry to go full nerd emoji on you over a joke but apart from that , pretty valid

 

[Gohankuten]

If banning Tera Blast has a knockon effect of having people look at Hidden Power in older gens and deciding to ban it, that would be funny because you can basically port over the arguments for banning Tera Blast to it lol

Biggest difference between HP and TB is that TB is effectively DOUBLE the base power of HP since TB is 80 and always gets STAB making it effectively 120 while HP is only 60 for Gen 6+ and max of 70 for Gens 5- with no STAB. Also HP only uses special attack for Gen 4+ while TB uses highest attacking stat.

 

[ausma]

The idea behind addressing Tera Blast isn't that it's overpowered, but rather uncompetitive.

Even if it isn't used super commonly, it is still a fixture of high-level play and many Pokemon can use it very viably. From the S- to A-ranks, Kingambit, Dragapult, Dragonite, and Iron Moth use it well, and there's even more beyond that like Sandy Shocks, Thundurus-T, Landorus-T, etc etc. The idea that a Pokemon can inflate its coverage profile with sudden, powerful coverage does indeed add a layer of volatility in Tera as a mechanic that undermines the thought processes that go into other, positive uses of the mechanic that can be predicted and played around more feasibly. That volatility can be extremely powerful; even if there's an opportunity cost behind it, that can often be worth it if it means sniping and removing a Pokemon you don't want to deal with.

Tera Blast is emphatically a 5 for me on the survey, and I will die on the hill that it is one of the biggest problems behind Tera, if not the biggest.

 

[Wolf-X]

5, this guy already had its fun run, its time to let it go, its sinergy with Gliscor is unhealthy thanks to its broken ability that allows for hazards to become almost unremovable except for Cinderace court change and maushold tidy up. On top of it all it can hit extremly hard or totally wall some threat.

5, its fun but its a bit too much imo, thanks to Tera kingambit can easily get enough steam for it to eqsily turn the game around f you dont guess the mind games.

4 very strong, specially thanks to the sinergy with Gholdengo

3 can be annoying but nothing too crazy right now

1 No real suspect worth but could become too much after some of the above get banned.

To finish... I cant believe people are discussing Tera blast, if anything just ban tera as a whole imo. Its barely used and most of the time just a niche surprise move, that more often than not is just useless.

Still i do believe a Tera meta can be healthy

 

[Shinto7654]

Biggest difference between HP and TB is that TB is effectively DOUBLE the base power of HP since TB is 80 and always gets STAB making it effectively 120 while HP is only 60 for Gen 6+ and max of 70 for Gens 5- with no STAB. Also HP only uses special attack for Gen 4+ while TB uses highest attacking stat.

Oh I know, I don't actually think that Hidden Power was ever broken or a real problem, it's just hearing "Tera Blast gives coverage that Pokemon shouldn't have!!!!" as a big reason to ban it, and think about how that was literally just Hidden Power. I'm also not a fan of how it would just lead to yet again lower tiers getting fucked up by it (NU does not have an issue with Tera Blast at all aside from kinda Jolteon as an example) because lol move and item bans from higher tiers being auto applied to lower tiers

 

[tigers jaw]

any proposition that terablast is problematic or banworthy in itself is for the birds - it is negligible in the grand scheme of the meta. pokemon cannot afford to sacrifice a moveslot that is useless without the in-game investment of using tera to not have a wasted move.

there are very few pokémon that actually take advantage of terablast in a problematic way (gambit, espathra, volcarona), and kingambit’s brokenness is amped up even without terablast by virtue of tera itself flipping matchups or offering overwhelming power.

focus on more fundamental aspects of tera imo.

edit: ausma, the only pokémon you listed there that in any way makes problematic usage of terablast is gambit, & that is on one set of many which can achieve similar results without forgoing one of iron head/low kick (which is most important now) or kowtow.

the rest of the pokémon you listed much prefer other moves, such as dazzling gleam tera fairy/tera grass eball sub moth, tera normal dnite, or they are totally irrelevant/unproblematic in the meta.

it is laughable to assert that terablast is a problem.

edit TWO (2): the actual issues with tera are that it affords mostly offensive but also defensive pokémon to circumvent would-be answers by flipping matchups & affording unacceptable levels of power. both of these have 2 interrelated impacts, those being:

making building foundationally solid teams a nightmare, & introducing uncompetitive aspects during crucial moments & sequences within games.

 

[cosmogii]

Tera Blast is emphatically a 5 for me on the survey, and I will die on the hill that it is one of the biggest problems behind Tera, if not the biggest.

i just can't in good consciousness agree with this, honestly. tera blast is a niche move which is without a doubt, very strong! of course having perfect coverage that mon specifically needs is good, it'd be silly to say otherwise. but its not even close to an issue, and saying that its an issue behind terastilization is like saying the specific thorn that pricked you is the issue, after you stepped into a thorn bush. there are limited abusers for the move, and it's a (in my opinion) silly branching off from the core issues to this meta.

though, i will say, i'm getting kind of sick hearing everyone complain about ghold glisc and crew. we know they're busted, we know the meta is wonky, can we PLEASE just change the topic before i get an aneurysm and kingambit gets a supreme overlord boost from it? i feel like i'm in an echo chamber where everyone is just trying to make their echo the one that lasts longest.

 

[ianlazerbeem]

I know im not supposed to do one liners but i kinda wanna see a metagame with gliscor but no gholdengo, it would be pretty interesting, also can’t wait for poltchageist to inevitably become a part of grassy terrain teams

This would be the opposite of interesting. Btw please stop double posting, edit your post if you have more to add

i just can't in good consciousness agree with this, honestly. tera blast is a niche move which is without a doubt, very strong! of course having perfect coverage that mon specifically needs is good, it'd be silly to say otherwise. but its not even close to an issue, and saying that its an issue behind terastilization is like saying the specific thorn that pricked you is the issue, after you stepped into a thorn bush. there are limited abusers for the move, and it's a (in my opinion) silly branching off from the core issues to this meta.

though, i will say, i'm getting kind of sick hearing everyone complain about ghold glisc and crew. we know they're busted, we know the meta is wonky, can we PLEASE just change the topic before i get an aneurysm and kingambit gets a supreme overlord boost from it? i feel like i'm in an echo chamber where everyone is just trying to make their echo the one that lasts longest.

Ignoring the irrelevant thorn bush metaphor, maybe the reason everyone is complaining about Gliscor is it's a problem? You'll stop hearing about it once the problem is solved by the council. Also, asking people to stop discussing Pokémon they believe deserve tiering action less than a day after a tiering survey is released is clown behavior

Oh I know, I don't actually think that Hidden Power was ever broken or a real problem, it's just hearing "Tera Blast gives coverage that Pokemon shouldn't have!!!!" as a big reason to ban it, and think about how that was literally just Hidden Power. I'm also not a fan of how it would just lead to yet again lower tiers getting fucked up by it (NU does not have an issue with Tera Blast at all aside from kinda Jolteon as an example) because lol move and item bans from higher tiers being auto applied to lower tiers

But didn't Game Freak ban Hidden Power by removing it from the game? Hidden power also does not give you a 3rd stab and is not activated by pressing a "free setup turn" button.

Lower tiers are not a real consideration nor a priority, if something is broken in OU, it's broken in OU. Lower tiers are secondary and basically only exist for fun. OU is Smogon's premier metagame, a broken feature should not be preserved in the real metagame for the sake of tiers that barely anyone plays. We also had an NU where Goodra was banned for months, and it was great, so not super concerned about Goodra counterplay leaving when Goodra could simply leave

 

[Jumpheart]

Meta is not good right now, but booting Roaring Mid to UUbers was a step in the right direction. Quickban the triple Gs and also Sneasler or something to distract the people whining about banning the Gs

The Spoiler with 5 Names AKA Survey responses AKA Gliscor's Lament AKA Ramblings of a noob AKA I only play petmods and Monotype right now

Enjoyment: 2/10
While I've never been the biggest OU player, I've played some of both Gen 8 and Gen 9 for fun, and have gone back and messed with most other oldgens, even if it's just playing a couple games with friends. Intermediate metas such as Crown Tundra may have been worse from what I've heard, but of metagames I've played, this is the worst OU i've touched. I was having a fairly good start to my suspect run for RM ban but I stopped because I wasn't having fun--I didn't want to waste time playing ~40 games in a meta I hated playing.

Competitive: 5/10
With that said, I do think people are underrating the meta's competitiveness. From my perspective, the player who played better still wins more often than not. Matches aren't true coinflips, skill expression does matter, which is why it's still a 5--but there's a lot of room for improvement in this regard.

Council Aggression: 8/10
Normally, I believe in the power of suspect tests, however this metagame is unique in how many threats qualify for suspect tiering. People are in this thread saying Sneasler (for example) isn't broken at all, but to me it's pretty clearly insane, just being overshadowed by the more obscene threats. If we want this meta to be balanced before DLC2, we need more aggression in terms of quickbans. If there's another Volc situation, that's fine--I'd much rather ban 5 broken threats and lose a questionable mon than ban a single threat in the same timeframe. We can retest the more controversial threats after the meta is playable.

Gliscor: 5
First leg of the triple Gs. Not broken in a conventional sense but uncompetitive and poised to get better. Is the biggest or second-biggest culprit behind why the meta is so bad.

Manaphy: I voted 4 but its more a 3.5
I think this mon will go soon, and the fact that Take Heart / Acid Armor and Tail Glow have different counterplay is going to be the biggest reason why, but it's not currently quick-ban worthy at the moment. Will be enemy #1 after the Gs get banned. Perhaps I'll be proved wrong.

Gholdengo: 5
Second leg of the triple Gs. The biggest problem, in my opinion, for why the meta is so bad. Even if we assume in-game it's pretty reasonable (which is not a safe assumption), its strain in the teambuilder is insane in how much hazard removal it prevents. I've posted a full rant in this thread before.

Waterpon: 4
This mon is very silly right now but I could actually see it being balanced down the line when possible counterplay becomes less oppressed by the Gs. That said, it's pretty clearly not balanced right now. Voted 4 since it's too good right now but I would be opposed to a quickban at the moment--ban the triple Gs and see where we are.

Sneasler: 3
Already talked about this dude a bit above. I think he's stupid and deserves a suspect if we had more time, but compared to the other threats we have he's probably the lowest priority on this survey. Rilla-Sneasler was my main core in my suspect team I was using and it was responsible for like half my wins, just by sending it out lategame, but way earlier than a cleaner should be able to

Kingambit: 5
Third leg of the triple Gs. King of the coinflips and is actually probably the most uncompetitive mon on this survey, even if its less warping than the hazard bros. Sucker Punch is a stupid move on this. Has been discussed to death. Would be more reasonble without Tera (I'm not sure how much no TB actually nerfs Gambit though) but that's not a bridge we should cross right now.

Tera Blast: 5
I'm not convinced that TB being banned fixes the Tera issue entirely but it definitely helps, so I'm in favor of banning it. I would prefer a full Tera ban over banning TB but that's not relly an option right now as we know.

 

[swampass911]

hard to have a full suspect on a generational mechanic when dlc2 could be in a month and there is much more support for other suspects

DLC2 could also be next February at the latest, and there's no guarantee it will be the last DLC content for Scarlet / Violet. Also, how is there much more support for other suspects if a general tera ban has not been included in the past few surveys? I'm a bit surprised the question was not asked beyond just Tera Blast in the most recent one.

A huge amount of the bans have been mostly due to Tera has pushed mons over the edge (Chien Pao, Regieleki, Roaring Moon, and Volcarona being the most glaring examples). And even in the current meta we're still having discussions for the latest iteration of setup + tera cheese (Manaphy, Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, and especially Kingambit).

Just my two cents, but I think we should stop farting around, not addressing one of the issues in the meta - an uncompetitive mechanic which is kept purely because it's exclusive to Gen9. And yes, I'm aware the council is doing their best and you dedicate a lot of your own time to this.

 

[Shinto7654]

Lower tiers are not a real consideration nor a priority, if something is broken in OU, it's broken in OU. Lower tiers are secondary and basically only exist for fun. OU is Smogon's premier metagame, a broken feature should not be preserved in the real metagame for the sake of tiers that barely anyone plays. We also had an NU where Goodra was banned for months, and it was great, so not super concerned about Goodra counterplay leaving when Goodra could simply leave

Lol what. I pointed out Jolteon because it's the only user of Tera Blast in NU that actually is somewhat of an issue due to it. How the hell you saw that and went "ah yes, they were clearly talking about Goodra counterplay with Tera Ice or Fairy Jolteon" is beyond me aside from an immense lack of reading comprehension. Also, trying to act like tiers aside from OU aren't real or only for fun when lower tiers are literally in official tournements, have their own subforums that have been a mainstay since gen 4 (Gen 5 in RU's case and Gen 6 in PU's case), and are literally referred to as official tiers on site is absurd. Actual intense Gen 9 OU player brainrot on full display lmao

 

[Finchinator]

DLC2 could also be next February at the latest, and there's no guarantee it will be the last DLC content for Scarlet / Violet. Also, how is there much more support for other suspects if a general tera ban has not been included in the past few surveys? I'm a bit surprised the question was not asked beyond just Tera Blast in the most recent one.

The thing is here we cannot assume February and we cannot be in a situation where we are screwed come December, so the decision makes itself here.

Support internally, but also just based on discussion in this thread. Regardless, we plan on including more and being more thorough as circumstances permit. This is just the first step and tip of the iceberg really.

 

[tofa]

I had a hypothesis that SV OU is generally perceived as less balanced than previous generations, and that this would be reflected in the Tiering Surveys when compared to the previous generation, SS OU. But after looking at the data, I'm not yet convinced that the tier is necessarily in a worse state than previous gen around the same "milestone" (early DLC1), even if I personally do not enjoy SV OU at all at the moment.

I have summarized the average enjoyment & competitiveness of the qualified playerbase across SS OU & SV OU. I also highlighted where DLCs were released. The dates are when each survey ended. I put --/--- when I couldn't find the data or the survey is yet to be completed. The chunk of missing data post DLC1 for SV OU has been described as "trending upwards" which is nice to hear. I also read that Finchinator is making a formal summary on current generation metagame scores which is great as well. They are doing a great job tracking the pulse throughout the entire lifetime of SV OU.

SS OU, QUALIFIED
----------------

DATE        ENJOYMENT        COMPETITIVENESS
--- DYNAMAX BANNED DECEMBER 2019 ---
--- DLC1 JUNE 2020 ---
2020-07-21    63/100            58/100
--- DLC2 OCTOBER 2020 ---
2020-11-20    74/100            63/100
2021-02-19    69/100            65/100
2021-04-02    68/100            73/100
2021-07-21    69/100            70/100
2021-10-10    73/100            74/100
2021-11-21    70/100            73/100
2022-02-20    76/100            78/100
2022-07-31    73/100            73/100
2022-09-11    72/100            77/100

SV OU, QUALIFIED
----------------

DATE        ENJOYMENT        COMPETITIVENESS
2022-12-09    --/---            --/---
2023-01-27    71/100            60/100
2023-02-12    68/100            57/100
2023-02-22    70/100            65/100
2023-04-15    62/100            58/100
2023-06-07    64/100            47/100
2023-07-02    64/100            54/100
--- DLC1 SEPTEMBER 2023 ---
2023-09-17    --/---            --/---
2023-09-22    --/---            --/---
2023-10-17    --/---            --/---
2023-10-31    --/---            --/---

Some things to note:

1. I remember SS OU generally being disliked during the HOME-metagame (pre-DLC1). Make of that what you will.
2. SS OU bounced back to rather strong scores >70/100 about 5 months after DLC2 (released late October 2020). This score stood firm through the end of current generation SS OU.
3. SV OU pre-DLC1 scores are roughly the same as the SS OU post-DLC1 scores.

What I'm gaining from this is that it is a bit too early to point fingers at any particular mechanic, item, move or Pokémon in SV OU as the root cause for any consistently mediocre scores in SV OU. Currently, the score follows a similar path as early generation SS OU in my eyes. The tier may just need a bit more time to settle after the DLC release, just like SS OU.

The deciding factor that would make me want to e.g reconsider a Terastallization suspect or similar would be if SV OU can't seem to increase its score very much at all post DLC1. If it struggles to stay above 60/100 in competitiveness for much longer despite further suspects, I'd say that's an indication that something bigger e.g Terastallization should be reinvestigated.

This is just my opinion as someone who isn't super active in SV OU at the end of the day, and I think everyone involved in leading the tier is doing a great job in staying on top of recent developments.

Nevertheless, it'll be really interesting to follow the scores as the SV OU DLC1 metagame progresses and as DLC2 is released.

PS: Not related to the above at all and is a pure gut feeling, but I feel that SV OU has had quite a lot of quickbans & suspects compared to the equivalent time frame for SS OU. It would be interesting to see data on this, especially since SS OU had it's Dynamax mechanic (rightfully) banned very early on. It would be far from a fair comparison, but would be interesting in terms of how banning a generation's mechanic could impact the tiering frequency and competitiveness of a generation.

 

[SittinGamer]

I don't recall exactly the numbers but I think someone found OU bans in a generation would sit somewhere around 10 to low 10s as a banhappy gen before while we are not even one calandar year in and have 16 bans thus far, with 3 suspects resulting in a no ban as well. While I think this is due to a ton of different things right now, the level of powercreep of the new mons this gen is probably unparalleled with only 4>5 coming close.

 

[tofa]

While I think this is due to a ton of different things right now, the level of powercreep of the new mons this gen is probably unparalleled with only 4>5 coming close.

That's a good point, there's definitely been a fair amount of power creep in terms of the new Pokémon themselves!

 

[ianlazerbeem]

Lol what. I pointed out Jolteon because it's the only user of Tera Blast in NU that actually is somewhat of an issue due to it. How the hell you saw that and went "ah yes, they were clearly talking about Goodra counterplay with Tera Ice or Fairy Jolteon" is beyond me aside from an immense lack of reading comprehension. Also, trying to act like tiers aside from OU aren't real or only for fun when lower tiers are literally in official tournements, have their own subforums that have been a mainstay since gen 4 (Gen 5 in RU's case and Gen 6 in PU's case), and are literally referred to as official tiers on site is absurd. Actual intense Gen 9 OU player brainrot on full display lmao

Current Gen OU is competitve Pokémon. Lower tiers are variations on competitve Pokémon. This has been the case for 20 years. There is no disputing this, and these other metagames should have as much bearing on OU tiering as Natdex, Monotype, or Balanced Hackmons, which is to say none.

I am sorry for misapplying someone else's Goodra argument to you. But the fact remains that "x isn't a problem in lower tiers" has nothing to do with OU aka competitve Pokémon

I just want to point out that outside of Gambit.

The only prominent Tera Blast users are Sneasler and Moth. The others like DD Pult, Tera Flying Dnite, or Thundy-T are either too niche for people to really mind or it often rarely runs it.

Also the fact that outside of Terastilization, Tera Blast is a completely empty slot, meaning smart Tera use/management is encouraged when using it.

Part of that is because the rest have been banned. My understanding also is that tournament players' issues with Tera blast is related to lure cheese in serious games, not just the amount of Tera blast you see on the ladder (which is not much)

It also does not matter if Tera blast is a wasted slot if you don't use it, if using it wins you the game