Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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DaddyBuzzwole said:
why is dondozo placed in the same tier as pincurchin? why are blissey and corviknight in the same tier as noivern and land shaymin? why are great tusk and rockpon in the same tier? why is ghold not s-tier and why is rilla not a+? why is clef that far down? what's munkidori doing all the way up there? what is bellibolt even doing on the list?
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Dondozo has a bad placement cuz its a hard fit outside of stall, which is ass rn
Same for blissey
Corv is straight ass
Noivern and shaymin have use, noivern can be a decent specs user that's faster than a few key threats, especially on webs, that can also utilize LO tera normal boomburst to do a lot of damage. By no means a useless mon. Shaymin actually serves as a usable offensive check for oger-w and as a blanket for dnite and gambit, i made a post to justify why shaymin deserves a low placement in the vr thread that you can read here. A little outdated at this point but the point is still there
Rockpon is hard to run because wellspring is objectively better, but is by no means bad. Controversial take, clearly, but i think tusk has fallen off recently because of how dominant HO has become. Going with the intention to waste a turn spinning can be easily exploited
I think ghold is good but not as good as the mons i placed in s tier, refer to the tier descriptions
In hindsight, you're right about rillaboom. Shouldve been a+
I think clef is too easily exploitable and does not have the necessary bulk to switch into a lot of things you'd want to out of a utility mon like that
I consider munkidori to be a pretty decent balance option
Bellibolt can do stuff, but like the placement says, its not good. Ive seen it a few times in suspect runs for gliscor and it showed up at 1400-1600s so it wouldve felt weird no to include even if its not great
 
Heres my personal viability list of the current metagame(please don’t turn into “post your personal viability lists” i just want to express my opinions)
im sure some the placements will seem odd to people, but this is 100% subjective and just exists to show my thoughts on post dlc 1 ou, of course some mons are missing and you can express what YOU think about my tier list
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Blaze_101392 said:
The fact you can even mention Furret in the context of OU and not have it be pants on head crazy is insane. Tidy Up is a hell of a move.
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that was a semi ironic entry, furret isn’t him
 
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So yeah if you guys were wondering I gave

Ghold and Sneasler got 5, Waterpon got 4, Manaphy and Gambit got like a 3 if I remember right
RaikouLover said:
Enjoyability: 2/10
Balance: 2/10

I think the council is doing a great job. Gen 9 just still feels like a joke to me. Game Freak just broke this game. They were smoking something since last Gen.

Gholdengo: 2/5
String cheese man is fine. Net positive.

Sneasler: 4/5
I still think this mon is dogshit. However, it is uncompetitive dogshit. Thick daddy Zapdos is getting trolled. Not uncommon for it to be 1v1ed for a loss thanks to Dire Claw. This guy is no world beater but he can kick rocks.

Kingambit: 5/5
Joke of a mon.

Manaphy: 3/5
More cheesey than good.

Ogerpon-W: 5/5
Fuck this thing.

Other things to look into:
Garganacl. Pure cancer. Busted af.
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String cheese man needs to go, even without tera it would literally warp the meta around it. Don't believe me, try running hazard removal on anything and watch it get blocked every single fucking time. Its meta warping even if it isn't broken statwise and needs to go to Ubers for the rest of the gen. Also Ghold walks all over stall so there is that too.
 
woodgoldtwo said:
As of today, Scarlet and Violet (and by extension SV OU) are 1 year old


What have been some of your favorite experiences of SV OU so far?
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the first days of home and dlc 1 were actually unhinged, thats thats why they were so fun, post home was actually chill apart from stall being useless but the first week of walking wake made it look like the mega knight of pokemon, now its just alright
 
woodgoldtwo said:
What have been some of your favorite experiences of SV OU so far?
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honestly? my favorite part of this gen was playing the actual game. some of the most solid storylines in the franchise, although i would've preferred if they enforced an order properly (or set both sides' mons to level 50 for each battle like the battle frontier) and maybe fleshed out pneumonia nemona's character a little more. from a technical perspective the games were terrible at the start, but it didn't bother me too much because getting upset at a pokemon game for being poorly programmed is like getting upset at the tide for coming in. i also think that locking you out of every building in the game and purposely not rendering the interior of shops was inexcusably lazy, but it didn't detract from my experience enough to make me not enjoy the game

as for ou itself, i'm having trouble picking out a "favorite" experience because every time i go on ladder it feels like a punishment from god and i can't wait for gambit to be banned so i can play gen 9 ou without giving a longing look at every cemetery i pass, but if i had to pick a favorite i'd have to say the pre-home era was pretty neat after the initial several banwaves
 
woodgoldtwo said:
As of today, Scarlet and Violet (and by extension SV OU) are 1 year old


What have been some of your favorite experiences of SV OU so far?
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Teal Mask meta at the very start and after the initial quickbans was really refreshing and fun, loved the first week of everyone getting used to Ogerpon’s unique quirks (and the freeness of Hearthflame Sun). Ofc it did devolve into the current mess we have as people got used to the meta and started learning what was good but those first few weeks were really great.
 
Chlora said:
Trust me on this one i got reqs on gliscor using stall. Blissey gets PP stalled hard and straight up gets used for setup fodder by take heart sets. Consider that lots of manaphy are leftovers, and to beat manaphy you actually need to KO it, not just sit on it. You always want soft boiled cm shadow ball for gholdengo, and i used stealth rock on the last slot, so no seismic toss to even dent it. Most blissey at the time used shadow ball to beat dengo because it was a necessity
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Genuine question, why not mirror coat over stealth rocks to really fuck up special attackers? Like especially stored power manaphy.

woodgoldtwo said:
As of today, Scarlet and Violet (and by extension SV OU) are 1 year old


What have been some of your favorite experiences of SV OU so far?
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I got to 1500s pre h-sam with an h-zoro meowscarada team. It's not impressive in the grand scheme of things but pre h-sam OU is my favorite iteration of the tier and I miss it. I also really liked making fun of stall players who complained about gholdengo back then.
 
So I guess we're waiting for the Sneasler quickban now, right? Cause I think the results of the survey are pretty clear, and the vast majority of the community believes that Sneasler is a problem. We are also weeks away from DLC2, and between getting reqs and the voting process the whole suspect test would take too long. I'm also fairly certain that the Council members have made up their minds over what to do with that mon.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
honestly? my favorite part of this gen was playing the actual game. some of the most solid storylines in the franchise, although i would've preferred if they enforced an order properly (or set both sides' mons to level 50 for each battle like the battle frontier) and maybe fleshed out pneumonia nemona's character a little more. from a technical perspective the games were terrible at the start, but it didn't bother me too much because getting upset at a pokemon game for being poorly programmed is like getting upset at the tide for coming in. i also think that locking you out of every building in the game and purposely not rendering the interior of shops was inexcusably lazy, but it didn't detract from my experience enough to make me not enjoy the game
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Ik this is the OU thread and not the thread about the games themselves, but as you said, I honestly loved them besides all their flaws, but because was a Pokémon game I played after so long and honestly I enjoy single-player games without minding their flaws unless are so big they make them unplayable, then the end-game of the Area Zero compared to the usual pokémon games was really wonderful and if they were optimized better they could even challenge BW as best titles.

Anyway, to avoid the post to be deleted because doesn't talk about OU, as everyone are saying, after Sneasler's ban (even if this sounds incredibly dumb to think, but there is a chance that maybe will be suspected and not QB), the Meta will probably improve by nerfing the HO style, while also giving more focus on the other threats and not only being forced to run Pokémon to try to "check" Sneasler, but also discussing how to face these threats and also doing theories about DLC2.
 
yNot Mence said:
So I guess we're waiting for the Sneasler quickban now, right? Cause I think the results of the survey are pretty clear, and the vast majority of the community believes that Sneasler is a problem. We are also weeks away from DLC2, and between getting reqs and the voting process the whole suspect test would take too long. I'm also fairly certain that the Council members have made up their minds over what to do with that mon.
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yeah, based on the near-universal response from this thread, the very limited time until dlc2, and the opinions that council members have given on the mon, i expect a council vote on sneasler leading to a well-deserved quickban (and i think the council would be justified in ignoring the survey results and going ahead with the ban anyway in the unlikely event that sneasler doesn't score high enough—in fact, i'd go so far as to say that, whatever the results of the survey are, not banning sneasler immediately would be dereliction of duty). i also think the score for ghold might be high enough to trigger a council vote, but i think that one will narrowly fail to quickban, resulting in the last suspect of the dlc1 era
 
Remember that, even when checking every post here, our averages did not match even the unqualified playerbase average. One Smogon metagame thread is not indicative of everyone taking the surveys, and everyone posting here is likely more inclined to advertise why they did their vote (likely 1-2 or 4-5). The only Pokemon I see coming close enough to warrant a council vote is Sneasler. Hearthflame and Gliscor both didnt even make it above an average 4.1 from EITHER playerbase.

EDIT: Also thinking on it, as gung ho as I am about current Gholdengo, I think with how close DLC2 is it could bring better Defog distribution (esp to those who could win against Joe like Lando T or like idk Moltres or something), it may be better to wait on the string cheese guy since it would be an incredibly short lived ban that would likely cause a resurgence in the same circular discussion we've had with Joe in DLC1. Longstanding threats like Gambit and Joe just seem to make the most sense to wait and hedge things for the next month.
 
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SittinGamer said:
Remember that, even when checking every post here, our averages did not match even the unqualified playerbase average. One Smogon metagame thread is not indicative of everyone taking the surveys, and everyone posting here is likely more inclined to advertise why they did their vote (likely 1-2 or 4-5). The only Pokemon I see coming close enough to warrant a council vote is Sneasler. Hearthflame and Gliscor both didnt even make it above an average 4.1 from EITHER playerbase.

EDIT: Also thinking on it, as gung ho as I am about current Gholdengo, I think with how close DLC2 is it could bring better Defog distribution (esp to those who could win against Joe like Lando T or like idk Moltres or something), it may be better to wait on the string cheese guy since it would be an incredibly short lived ban that would likely cause a resurgence in the same circular discussion we've had with Joe in DLC1. Longstanding threats like Gambit and Joe just seem to make the most sense to wait and hedge things for the next month.
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With gambit I understand because tera could be banned via a suspect at the start of DLC2, but Gholdengo even if we get more defoggers will definitely still be problematic for blocking said defog even if they are everywhere again. Ghold's just too meta warping for this meta even if we had proper defoggers since it warps the entire hazard metagame around it to an unhealthy degree and squashes stall to boot.

That being said if we do get more defoggers I think that's a very good reason to let Gliscor back out, as without Ghold and with more defoggers it probably will be manageable if we get equally splashable defoggers like Zapdos and Tornadus-T getting it back potentially without Ghold blocking them from removing hazards

Also i'm pretty sure Ghold will end up getting more support than Sneasler, but I think both will be gone one way or another because both probably have really high support, as well as the small timeframe that the council has I would expect possibly both to be Quickbanned in this scenario if not one of them
 
I don't think you're wrong, but getting Defog on anything that checks Gholdengo could happen, and a DLC2 ban on Gholdengo would be much more permanent. We'd be fixing the Gholdengo problem with a DLC1 test for what, 7-10 days?

Edit: Don't wamt to triple post so I'll reply to the below again here. Yeah that's basically my line of thought. Sneasler has been doing the same things for months and will continue to do them no matter the new DLC2 tools. We lose nothing.
 
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SittinGamer said:
I don't think you're wrong, but getting Defog on anything that checks Gholdengo could happen, and a DLC2 ban on Gholdengo would be much more permanent. We'd be fixing the Gholdengo problem with a DLC1 test for what, 7-10 days?
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That's exactly why I mentioned the Sneasler QB, everything else at this point seems too late anyways, I don't think we're gonna die if we wait a couple more weeks for the DLC to drop. The QB on Sneasler on the other hand seems fair, efficient and also logical, considering that it would very likely still be broken regardless of what happens next.
 
ghold dropping back down if it's banned isn't a guarantee either. the plan, at least last time i checked, is to hold a survey to see what the community thinks should drop, instead of dropping a shit-ton of obviously broken nonsense clown-tundra-style. it's possible that ghold could stay banned via survey
 
I know that UU
DaddyBuzzwole said:
ghold dropping back down if it's banned isn't a guarantee either. the plan, at least last time i checked, is to hold a survey to see what the community thinks should drop, instead of dropping a shit-ton of obviously broken nonsense clown-tundra-style. it's possible that ghold could stay banned via survey
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Idk if you just came up with this, or if it's a known thing, but that is the best description of that entire meta. A++

As for QB vs suspect vs etc, I think that DLC will (hopefully) only have one or two QBs at most before the first inevitable suspect (I'm just thinking there's probably something that will show up that Should Not. I don't even know what it is, just a gut feeling, yknow?). I have a lot of opinions on this and that and these and those, but I mostly just want to see what happens just before the DLC "finalizes" additions to this format. (there's no DLC 3 or Scar2/Vi2, right?)
 
I think it's a little early to completely write off Gholdengo. Even if he is a defog blocker, it is possible we get defog distribution to checks/counters to sets being commonly run. As people pointed out in the Gliscor suspect, even were we to factor out Good as Gold, there aren't many defoggers which would actually rise up. We have Corv, Manibuzz, and probably Scizor, who all independently match up into Gholdengo terribly. The point is that the limited distribution of hazard removal seems to be a bigger deal at the moment than the blocking of removal, so if defog is let out of jail, we could see adaptation to where Gholdengo goes from what it is now to healthier. I think it'll still be suspect, but I feel like it and Kingambit both deserve time to see what DLC2 does to them and whether they still warrant a full gen 9 ban (Kingambit definitely does, I think Gholdengo currently does but could move around depending on meta shifts.)
 
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