Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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The council 12 hours after iron crown is released
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I told the same in orange island. Also, secret sword needs to be included in the list of sharpness moves
it doesn’t really, sure it would make sense, but keldeo doesn’t have sharpness, which is the only thing that affects slicing moves
 
Are people still babbling about gambit being broken/not broken? C'mon guys, DLC's in 6 days from now, go back to theorymonning smth else while we wait to see what the new meta has to offer. Whether or not gambit's tera X set becomes broken again or if gambit decides to chill at n2-4 in usage depends on what we get, so why not just talk about any other thing the DLC could offer instead of the 17th godforsaken "Gambit broken!!! No tusk + encore beats gambit!!!" discussion


The council 12 hours after iron crown is released
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The council 12 hours after iron crown is released
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it doesn’t really, sure it would make sense, but keldeo doesn’t have sharpness, which is the only thing that affects slicing moves
Yes I know
We just said it would be a good idea.
But unfortunatly, GameFreak will probably keep the bad " justified " on Keldeo.

We said it because Keldeo and the 3 other swords will probaly not be good in gen9 ou
(Keldeo isn't really confirmed to be in the game, but Terrakion Virizion and Cobalion are confirmed so Keldeo should be there)


About Iron Crown, the typing is good but we don't know the movepool and the stats, so we'll see.
 
But unfortunatly, GameFreak will probably keep the bad " justified " on Keldeo.
you say that, but they did replace defiant with competitive on empoleon and early bird with wind rider on shiftry, so they've proven willing to replace not-useful abilities with more useful ones. it wouldn't be too much of a stretch of the imagination to give sharpness to the three stooges and knuckles the three musketeers and keldeo, and who are we to deny someone their hopium?
 
Are people still babbling about gambit being broken/not broken? C'mon guys, DLC's in 6 days from now, go back to theorymonning smth else while we wait to see what the new meta has to offer. Whether or not gambit's tera X set becomes broken again or if gambit decides to chill at n2-4 in usage depends on what we get, so why not just talk about any other thing the DLC could offer instead of the 17th godforsaken "Gambit broken!!! No tusk + encore beats gambit!!!" discussion




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Because that's not what this thread is about? DLC hopes/predictions belong on Orange Islands, this thread is for discussing the current OU metagame
 
I'm gonna say this right now: unless next week we get 10 new good Spinners/Defoggers, Great Tusk becomes immune to Ghost and Steel moves, Good as Gold gets erased from our collective minds and this whole dimension OR we straight up get a new ability that auto-selects Defog upon the mon entering the field, Gholdengo needs to go.
 
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Let's talk about something else. For example, lokix is pretty cool. Have any of you used lokix, and what was the best set in your opinion?

Its a fun ''viable'' niche mon. Could use some usage as a Lati@s, Serperior, Dragapult, Darkrai and few others check, but will never be ''meta''

DLC2 unless some important movepool/Tera changes happen doesnt seem like it will make HUGE meta shifts... Seems like everything will most likely be the same but with a few new mons, some which might or might not be broken... Kyurem, Terrakion and the likes seem like the most troublesome mons.
 
Its a fun ''viable'' niche mon. Could use some usage as a Lati@s, Serperior, Dragapult, Darkrai and few others check, but will never be ''meta''

DLC2 unless some important movepool/Tera changes happen doesnt seem like it will make HUGE meta shifts... Seems like everything will most likely be the same but with a few new mons, some which might or might not be broken... Kyurem, Terrakion and the likes seem like the most troublesome mons.

Terrak and broken are words I would not have expected to be used in the same sentence unless this was BW1 OU. Since Gen 6, Terrak had been a niche pick cause of power creep. I don’t see that changing in Gen 9 unless it gets some absurd buff, hell, the environment is even worse for Terrak. Several base 110+ speed Pokemon that can scare off Terrak. It doesn’t like its competition in Valiant, Zama, and Tusk who also fuck it over in some way. If you wanted a fast offensive Rock, you have Cornerstone Ogerpon. Then you have Ghold who mandates the use of EQ onto its sets. God forbid if its Balloon. Easily rkilled and outdone by alot of newer mons. Terrak was good in BW OU because its damage output and speed was perfect for the tier, only outpaced by a few mons such as Latios and Zam while speed tieing with Keldeo. It even had defensive utility as a Ttar check that was immune to sand. Sadly like its brethren Keldeo and the Lati twins, they have been outdone.
 
like seriously, these have already been discussed to death over and over and over again. Let's talk about something else. For example, lokix is pretty cool. Have any of you used lokix, and what was the best set in your opinion?

Lokix is usable, but doesn't really stand out - it needs a boost to be dangerous, but First Impression doesn't work with Swords Dance and forces you to switch out with Choice Band, and Kingambit will forever be the superior Sucker Puncher. Tinted Lens is an outstanding ability, but there's plenty of quad-resists to Bug to limit the potential of Leech Life.

STAB Tinted Lens U-Turn is admittedly really cool, and if it had either better bulk or more Attack, it'd be an interesting pivot, but Scizor does the job better in OU. It's not quite strong enough for Banded First Impression to OHKO a Tera-Dark Kingambit from full, so even a team with a crippling weakness to that Kingambit set doesn't quite cut it.

Lokix has plenty of tools that can combine interestingly, but it's just not quite strong enough for successful role compression.
 
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I'm really intrigged to see what mons will make a splash once the DLC is out. We have a pletora of legendaries coming back but we'll also get like 6-7 new pokemon we almost know nothing about plus the ubers mons that will be released too to spice things up.

The rest of december will be a hot ass mess, can't wait!!
 
Terrak and broken are words I would not have expected to be used in the same sentence unless this was BW1 OU. Since Gen 6, Terrak had been a niche pick cause of power creep. I don’t see that changing in Gen 9 unless it gets some absurd buff, hell, the environment is even worse for Terrak. Several base 110+ speed Pokemon that can scare off Terrak. It doesn’t like its competition in Valiant, Zama, and Tusk who also fuck it over in some way. If you wanted a fast offensive Rock, you have Cornerstone Ogerpon. Then you have Ghold who mandates the use of EQ onto its sets. God forbid if its Balloon. Easily rkilled and outdone by alot of newer mons. Terrak was good in BW OU because its damage output and speed was perfect for the tier, only outpaced by a few mons such as Latios and Zam while speed tieing with Keldeo. It even had defensive utility as a Ttar check that was immune to sand. Sadly like its brethren Keldeo and the Lati twins, they have been outdone.
While I agree with your points I find the part about Earthquake being mandatory kind of odd. EdgeQuake is still a good combo and it's not like Terrakion has much else to run after STABs. The other moveslots are kind of filler, to the point where non-STAB Quick Attack has been used on Band and I think SD sets in the past.

Unless you were super married to using offensive Tera on SD Terrakion I don't see the problem, plus Fire could be a good option anyway.
 
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like seriously, these have already been discussed to death over and over and over again. Let's talk about something else. For example, lokix is pretty cool. Have any of you used lokix, and what was the best set in your opinion?
Ik that also other people are tired of these discussions and of others mons as MattC said above, even me that joined Smogon to know better the competitive Pokémon now perfectly knows them without even doing a match (Ik that I should play games and be in other threads and not only the OU one, but don't know where to go and I'm scared to do battles and also Teambuilding is hard when you just started and don't know how to do that, but for not derail too much this will be for another day and feel free to tell me in the messages if you want to help me), but in the end is unavoidable, since are some of the mons that besides being popular, are also some of the most hated ones, so it's normal that people constantly rant about them and doing this they try to find a miracle as someone that has a solution for them or that their messages are finally seen by the Showdown mods and that they will finally ban them from the tier.

About Lokix, in the first day of random battles I played, it with Life Orb or Choice Band was strong as hell, but sadly we live in a hazard infested meta, and it's weak to SR, so you are forced to use HDB but you will sacrifice power, but if you manage to Teambuild focusing on hazard removal and also for it then it should leave holes even in the metal thanks to the Choice Band set.
 
why is rimbombee running skill swap?

is she this desperate to paralyze garganacl?

why not u-turn?

For example, lokix is pretty cool. Have any of you used lokix, and what was the best set in your opinion?

if I remember correctly lokix was in OU at the start of the generation until it dropped.

this pokemon has some wasted pottential.
it is mostly held back because of its speed.
the tinted lens ability makes up for the resistances of its bug type, and its fighting type coverage combined with its dark type can only be resisted by fairies.
it can alson make some good use of tera.

that darn speed needs to be fixed.
 
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why is rimbombee running skill swap?

is she this desperate to paralyze garganacl?

why not u-turn?



if I remember correctly lokix was in OU at the start of the generation until it dropped.

this pokemon has some wasted pottential.
it is mostly held back because of its speed.
the tinted lens ability makes up for the resistances of its bug type, and its fighting type coverage combined with its dark type can only be resisted by fairies.
it can alson make some good use of tera.

that darn speed needs to be fixed.

Skill Swap annoys Hatterene and Gholdengo when they switch in, allowing you to para something for free should you keep your focus sash. Outside of that it trips up mons like dnite that rely on multi to shrug off hits after they dd tera normal. They're normally not dumb enough to stay in front of you if you're healthy tho.
 
People who actually still want Kingambit banned, how do you reckon with its 38% win rate in OUPL? Above-average tournament win rate has been a useful metric for determining brokenness for Pokémon such as Chien Pao and Espathra, and more recently Rillaboom and Sneasler. Rillaboom even without Sneasler has a 77% win rate as of Week 1, despite being the 8th most used Pokémon! Tied with Glowking, Kingambit has the lowest win rate of the top 10. And this is supposed to be a Pokémon that "flips outcomes and steals games!"
Tournament winrate is a very misleading statistic that has to be analyzed very carefully and in context to have any merit. The more used a pokemon is, the more useless winrate becomes. In the extreme case, a pokemon with 100% usage such as Gen 2 snorlax will always have a 50% winrate. At the same token, less used pokemon fall into a different problem of having low sample sizes. I'd recommend checking out BKC's video on the topic. What you would have to do to start using this data in a useful way is carefully go through replays one by one in context, looking at what role kingambit played in the game, whether it was even sent out, what kind of teams it is on, and more. A more interesting statistic would be how frequently a "true 50/50 turn" pops up in games after kingambit is sent out, namely the kind of turn where one or both players have to make a raw prediction of tera or no tera, as is common in the kingambit vs iron valiant both sides haven't terad yet interaction.
 
Silver lining is that we'll have a somewhat stable tier soon, as this will probably be the last big banwave. I honestly like what Dexit has done to differentiate competitive gens (hot take probably), but the DLC release model really sucks in this regard.
Until they ban something that leads to another thing being broken, and that to another, like most of this gen ngl. Hell, i expect half of the new mons to be suspected bare minimum at this point. When's shit broken, and when's shit just the new OU?
 
Honestly, the higher I've climbed on the ladder the less broken I've found gambit to be. Every team and every player is so prepped for it by this point that I cant remember the last time I saw kingambit reverse sweep through more than two pokemon, and even then it usually only happens due to something like a lucky iron head flinch. Especially now that straight up HO is dying off in favor of fatter cores(from my experience), its usually being asked to come in a lot more which means plenty of opportunities to chip it. It also hates zap being the best mon in the metagame. Using this thing feels so hard sometimes with all the hazards and helmets running around, it really forces you to get a lot of turns right to make the most of it.
 
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