Now this is the type of comprehensive response I like. Much appreciated! And damn..well I guess 3 out of 4 isn’t bad. Re: Blastoise though & considering the addition of Wave Crash and Ice Spinner, could a Shell Smash/White Herb/Jolly Nature set place him in UU at least?
the most consistently well-performing mon in the entire franchise (bw doesn't count) for a reason. high spa, powerful stabs, reasonably fast, and decently bulky, especially with its unique defensive typing. pairs excellently with the still-strong balance core of glowking and ting-lu, though it now faces stiff competition in this role from skarmory. static is excellent for punishing contact moves and will stop sweeps dead in their tracks with just a little sprinkle of luck. matches up well defensively into top-tier mons like great tusk and zamazenta and offensively into enamorus, kingambit, gholdengo, great tusk and zamazenta again, pex, dozo, hamurott, volc, skarm, and a host of others. has consistently been a top-10 mon in this gen in the last two metas and will likely continue to perform, though raging bolt and skarmory compete for teamspace as an offensive electric-type and a defensive flying-type
a very solid mon that's historically performed quite well this generation. boots let it come in on hazards to keep multiscale intact, giving it plenty of opportunities to set up a dragon dance or two and start sweeping. tera normal espeed is some of the strongest priority in the meta. i expect its viability to suffer a little in this dlc, though, because there are several more options against it—skarmory walls the eq/espeed/roost sets all day long and can phaze out the ice spinner sets before they threaten it too much; icicle spear kyurem and triple axel weavile destroy it through multiscale, forcing it to tera early if it wants to survive; volcarona and roaring moon are back to threaten it with burn and the occasional scale shot; basically every relevant new dlcmon threatens it on switch, except gouging fire, which threatens to burn… this dlc was really not good for dragonite, but i still expect it to have a place here when all is said and done
almost completely outclassed offensively by its hisuian form, which can do every meaningful thing the kantonian form can plus fling insanely powerful dual stabs with no recoil, and has a little more attack to boot. defensively, though, it's a bit more interesting since it isn't shackled with a defensively hideous rock typing. intimidate, will-o-wisp, decent bulk, and reliable recovery in morning sun make it a potential niche pick as a defensive fire-type, but it has to compete in this role with gouging fire, moltres, and occasionally volcarona, all of whom just kinda do the job better while offering more offensively. the pure typing and intimidate are interesting, though—i could see this being a microniche mon
i hate to say this about someone's favorite mon, but unfortunately, i don't think blastoise has any role in ou. it's outclassed as a bulky water-type spinner by tentacruel, as a bulky water-type shell smasher by cloyster, and as a bulky water-type in general by a bunch of other pokemon that people actually use. it doesn't really bring anything unique to the table that can't be done better by something else
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING SURVEY UP]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
DaRotomMachine
I COULD BE BANNED!
It's literally the first thing he mentioned
There's no core that can handle all of the tier's threats. That core you just showed gets destroyed by Weavile, Meowscarada, Specs Dragapult, Tera Flying DD Roaring Moon, Banded Roaring Moon, Gouging Fire if Tusk gets chipped, Tera Ground Serperior and SD H-Samurott. And that's just what came to my mind.
This Metagame seems too offensive right now.
DaRotomMachine
I COULD BE BANNED!
And what happens because of that............?
I don't know, only time can tell.
Regarding possible bans: Deoxys-S, Roaring Moon, Enamorous, Kyurem and Serperior are pretty controversial.
Gholdengo and Kingambit might be banned later on when the meta settles.
The meta feels weird idk how to put it. Nothing stands out as extremely overbearing but it feels as though everything is hanging by a thread. There are no solid cores that can withstand all the mons and games are very matchup-dependent. It also feels like broken checks broken, I think once the first ban happens a whole bunch of bans and suspects are going to follow. still on that suspect ghold wave
I've found that shockingly Gambit's pretty managable at the moment. If you are having trouble, Gouging Fire is unironically a really good answer. The gambit can try to SD + Defensive tera or Kowtow Cleave all you want, Gouging Fire just Dragon Dances or Burns you with Burning Bulwark and threatens to reverse sweep the gambit user. Gambit unironically feels more managable with the stuff we got.
I do think Ghold needs to go because its too good of a spinblocker that punishes stall too hard, but suspecting it feels like the wrong time when Tera is still busted as well as other mons that potentially end up being busted like Roaring Moon, Deo-S, and Kyurem (Veil Kyurem is stupid bulky under snow by the way).
I think tera is a staple of the meta and I don't see it going away, as for what to go first, it's up to the council. I only voice ghold over everything because it's the most centralizing mon with its ability, not it's offensive or defensive capabilities. With ghold banned, we can play a meta with defog and better hazard control, which would allow for easier decisions with other mons. Additionally, for anyone who says certain mons would become better because ghold can't check them, good. Broken checks broken is not a good thing and never will be, it'll help with the development of a better meta. Gambit is a fun mon that I like a lot but burn doesn't stop that bad boy after its checks are weakened or removed
Alright the real question is, how does the DLC affect Goatchomp? 
Our boy did a quick tour of UU before ripping it apart and getting sent to UUBL. Then he chomp'd his way back to OU just for the DLC to drop and for everyone to abandon him for new toys. Will GarGoat be back or was that his last hurrah of OU in gen9.
Garchomp has a favorable matchup against several key new and returning mons:
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Iron Boulder
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Gouging Fire,
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Hydrapple,
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Raging Bolt,
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Archaludon,
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Kyurem,
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Iron Crown, etc.
But despite his good matchups (on paper at least), we are simply not garback and it seems no one is using him.
Returning mons like
Deo-S running ice beam or LO psycho boost threaten the KO or huge chip on chomp, and 
Enamorus is as good as it has ever been with stellar tera. The addition of Triple Axel Meow 
and Triple Axel Meow Jr 
are definitely massive thorns on this side of this landshark.
Also while Garchomp might beat Gouging Fire, Kyurem, Raging Bolt, Hydrapple, and Archaludon, they still have several unique qualities and offer massive dragon type competition for a team slot. Gouging Fire in particular directly outclasses chomp as a setup dragon type sweeper, as dragon/fire stab with 100 bp ground coverage is much scarier than dragon/ground with 65 bp fire coverage.
Is the lack of Garchomp an example of new toy syndrome? Will Garchomp be back once the meta settles and people take advantage of its matchups (I predict that tankchomp will be at its absolute best due to stuffing iron bolt and threatening all slower dragons)? Or is it simply the end for this OU legend and he will begin his downward retirement spiral?
Our boy did a quick tour of UU before ripping it apart and getting sent to UUBL. Then he chomp'd his way back to OU just for the DLC to drop and for everyone to abandon him for new toys. Will GarGoat be back or was that his last hurrah of OU in gen9.
Garchomp has a favorable matchup against several key new and returning mons:
-
Iron Boulder-
Gouging Fire, -
Hydrapple, -
Raging Bolt, -
Archaludon, -
Kyurem, -
Iron Crown, etc.But despite his good matchups (on paper at least), we are simply not garback and it seems no one is using him.
Returning mons like
Deo-S running ice beam or LO psycho boost threaten the KO or huge chip on chomp, and Enamorus is as good as it has ever been with stellar tera. The addition of Triple Axel Meow and Triple Axel Meow Jr are definitely massive thorns on this side of this landshark.Also while Garchomp might beat Gouging Fire, Kyurem, Raging Bolt, Hydrapple, and Archaludon, they still have several unique qualities and offer massive dragon type competition for a team slot. Gouging Fire in particular directly outclasses chomp as a setup dragon type sweeper, as dragon/fire stab with 100 bp ground coverage is much scarier than dragon/ground with 65 bp fire coverage.
Is the lack of Garchomp an example of new toy syndrome? Will Garchomp be back once the meta settles and people take advantage of its matchups (I predict that tankchomp will be at its absolute best due to stuffing iron bolt and threatening all slower dragons)? Or is it simply the end for this OU legend and he will begin his downward retirement spiral?
Also asking for a friend that really wants to know lol
I know y'all have been waiting for the HeartfulKitty hot takes for the last over a thousand posts, so here's some scatterbrained thoughts.
Deo-S and Roaring Moon currently seem like the most problematic elements to me. Deo-S is both the best lead and an incredible offensive threat, giving it a lot of versatility in roles that it overperforms in, while Roaring Moon is doing the same things it did in DLC1. I don't believe either currently warrant a quickban, but suspects seem appropriate, pending meta developments over the next couple weeks.
Darkrai is very good but not broken. Scarf is for sure the best set, while specs and utility sets both put in decent work. NP + 3 attacks could eventually be broken if the meta slows way down, but it sure as shit ain't right now. I'd go so far as to say that it's the least reliable non-meme set. (Sorry whoever hyped it up, hypnosis is a meme that only works if the funny gods allow it.)
Raging Bolt, Gouging Fire, and Archaludon are all appropriately hyped and good in this meta. Use defensive Gouging Fire, it's not as fun as just pressing buttons on sun but burning bulwark + morning sun is solid. Stamina + body press Archaludon is very funny into whoever's running Maushold (so like 5 people), and stealth rocks is neat role compression. Iron Boulder is overhyped but still rock (hah) solid in my opinion, it doesn't ever do quite as much damage as I want it to but it's still fast as shit and very strong with a good rock move. Iron Crown mid but can do funny stored power shenanigans, and I'm sure someone will make a non stored power set that's fine enough. Hydrapple is something I haven't played with or played against enough to have a strong opinion on, but it seems like it'll be the first of the new mons sent to UU along with Iron Crown.
Hazards are still annoying as fuck, especially with Deo-S/Skarmory/Gliscor in the tier, but temper flame is actually a nice little boost to Great Tusk's toolkit. Helps a lot with spinning against Gholdengo at least. I don't think Gholdengo is currently broken or even overly centralizing at the moment, as the current problem is sheer lack of options over many things being shut down in battle, but the hazard situation will eventually need to be dealt with somehow. Might just be that banning Deo-S and Gliscor again is the best way forward, maybe banning Gholdengo is the only way to fix it. Who knows.
Serpeior and Kyurem are potential problems but not currently broken, just really annoying. Volcarona and Enamorus are great but currently fine. Kingambit is still Kingambit and thus still sucks to face, even if it isn't broken. I hope somebody's able to make a sand team that doesn't suck because Excadrill is fun. Stellar Tera is better than people think but still only useful on like 5 mons max.
Skarmory being back and top tier means there's an excuse to use Magnezone again, as it rarely wants to tera out of its base typing. Although I actually feel like analytic is better with tera making trapping steels not nearly as useful which isn't a meme and can put in actual work I promise. No I don't have any proof of that, why do you ask?
Meta is, as everyone else is saying, surprisingly balanced at the present moment. I'm 99% sure there's gonna be some development soon that throws everything out of whack, but I'm enjoying it for now.
This concludes this edition of HeartfulKitty Says Things About Pokemon Online™️©️
Deo-S and Roaring Moon currently seem like the most problematic elements to me. Deo-S is both the best lead and an incredible offensive threat, giving it a lot of versatility in roles that it overperforms in, while Roaring Moon is doing the same things it did in DLC1. I don't believe either currently warrant a quickban, but suspects seem appropriate, pending meta developments over the next couple weeks.
Darkrai is very good but not broken. Scarf is for sure the best set, while specs and utility sets both put in decent work. NP + 3 attacks could eventually be broken if the meta slows way down, but it sure as shit ain't right now. I'd go so far as to say that it's the least reliable non-meme set. (Sorry whoever hyped it up, hypnosis is a meme that only works if the funny gods allow it.)
Raging Bolt, Gouging Fire, and Archaludon are all appropriately hyped and good in this meta. Use defensive Gouging Fire, it's not as fun as just pressing buttons on sun but burning bulwark + morning sun is solid. Stamina + body press Archaludon is very funny into whoever's running Maushold (so like 5 people), and stealth rocks is neat role compression. Iron Boulder is overhyped but still rock (hah) solid in my opinion, it doesn't ever do quite as much damage as I want it to but it's still fast as shit and very strong with a good rock move. Iron Crown mid but can do funny stored power shenanigans, and I'm sure someone will make a non stored power set that's fine enough. Hydrapple is something I haven't played with or played against enough to have a strong opinion on, but it seems like it'll be the first of the new mons sent to UU along with Iron Crown.
Hazards are still annoying as fuck, especially with Deo-S/Skarmory/Gliscor in the tier, but temper flame is actually a nice little boost to Great Tusk's toolkit. Helps a lot with spinning against Gholdengo at least. I don't think Gholdengo is currently broken or even overly centralizing at the moment, as the current problem is sheer lack of options over many things being shut down in battle, but the hazard situation will eventually need to be dealt with somehow. Might just be that banning Deo-S and Gliscor again is the best way forward, maybe banning Gholdengo is the only way to fix it. Who knows.
Serpeior and Kyurem are potential problems but not currently broken, just really annoying. Volcarona and Enamorus are great but currently fine. Kingambit is still Kingambit and thus still sucks to face, even if it isn't broken. I hope somebody's able to make a sand team that doesn't suck because Excadrill is fun. Stellar Tera is better than people think but still only useful on like 5 mons max.
Skarmory being back and top tier means there's an excuse to use Magnezone again, as it rarely wants to tera out of its base typing. Although I actually feel like analytic is better with tera making trapping steels not nearly as useful which isn't a meme and can put in actual work I promise. No I don't have any proof of that, why do you ask?
Meta is, as everyone else is saying, surprisingly balanced at the present moment. I'm 99% sure there's gonna be some development soon that throws everything out of whack, but I'm enjoying it for now.
This concludes this edition of HeartfulKitty Says Things About Pokemon Online™️©️
Soiramio3000
Banned deucer.
What niche does smeargle have in OU?
Also what about comfey?
I have never even consided using that one.
Smeargle learns every move its niche is that it is theoretically the best lead HO can ask for but in practice it's just dogshit
even though smeargle's stat spread makes me want to vomit, it has literally any combination of utility moves you can think of besides revival blessing. it traditionally has a niche as a focus sash lead (there's no other way for it to live attacks) that spores whatever the opponent leads, then sets up webs or spikes or whatever. in theory it can do other things—i've seen discussion of salt cure, nuzzle, mortal spin, burning bulwark, ruination, and of course there's the meme option of shell smash + power trip + population bomb—but its best niche is as a hazard setter that can also inflict sleep
as for comfey,
"the game is balanced but maybe if we ban some things we can mess it up"
really joggin my noggin on the psychology of typical smogon users tbh
anyways this replay isnt extremely special but how many of you are experiencing a significant amount of battles that go like this? arch doing chip damage to the whole team before its broken if ever? seems like it could be worth building around with heal bell / rest or wish support bc its so great and i often regret letting it finally die but often enough its chip damage lets deoxys or rilla revenge anything that could sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2017020945
really joggin my noggin on the psychology of typical smogon users tbh
anyways this replay isnt extremely special but how many of you are experiencing a significant amount of battles that go like this? arch doing chip damage to the whole team before its broken if ever? seems like it could be worth building around with heal bell / rest or wish support bc its so great and i often regret letting it finally die but often enough its chip damage lets deoxys or rilla revenge anything that could sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2017020945
DaRotomMachine
I COULD BE BANNED!
Anyone - hopefully? Maybe?
Let us know dog were all too busy trying some new better toys. Maybe he'll kill it in UU. He's not getting past my dozo or archbridgedragon in OU though. And rilla can follow up.
Been running this stall team lately and managed to break 1400 ELO with it.
https://pokepast.es/d7773010844b3add
Gouging Fire works surprisingly well in a defensive role with its signature move and if it fails, Temper Flare just gets a power boost. Hex is also really good against Gliscor.
https://pokepast.es/d7773010844b3add
Gouging Fire works surprisingly well in a defensive role with its signature move and if it fails, Temper Flare just gets a power boost. Hex is also really good against Gliscor.
Yeah I've been doing quite well with defensive gouging as well. I've been running heat crash and dragon claw over earthquake and temper flare instead. The thing is that is can stonewall any physcial attacker quite well, but is screwed decently against special attackers. It can't really fit onto every team but in some matchups, it can feel like an immovable wall. Does especially well into sun teams, because it gets boosted healing and can stall out sun turns with burning bulwark.
- Weavile viability increased with the higher incidences of offensive dragon and ice types
- Serperior is viable, but doesn’t feel OP, partially because;
- Two bulky new dragons. Conveniently one is electric type, the other is neutral to water, and;
- Kingambit is feeling ridiculous again after a few days of the meta. Not much of the new additions really add much value against gambit
- Booster energy is everywhere
- The need for absorbing misc physical hits is here again
- The big Apple boi has promise with its SpDef set, but surprisingly high utility with its phys Def set
- Mr bridge loves taking multi-hit attacks and makes a reasonable Tera receiver candidate
- Gliscor is disgusting, skarmory is viable
- Waterpon: exists
- Roaring moon: likely a ban candidate
Nope, sure, all these things do hurt urshifu-RS, but it still will dominate with the swords dance sets. Don't forget that archaludon is ohko'd by choice band urshifu and two-hit ko'd at plus one. So imagine +2 urshifu destroying it.
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Archaludon: 284-336 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Plus, every pokemon is destroyed by close combat, to varying degrees. And if kingambit is being ridiculous, that is more grounds for banning it then retesting something that was broken in the past.
A few pages back I posted about 5 replays of offensive comfey getting it done in the 1500-1700 range. I personally think the grassy seed calm mind set is better than knock off but each to their own
So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.