Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Sacrificial Lambtias said:
Fully aware of the name and what it is, but the scenario you describe sounds like one where the traditional suspect process is doomed to fail because nobody can reach a consensus on what to ban first because there are too many broken mons. So unless there's another option, the Kokoloko method seems worth considering.
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Okay, reading it back, I kinda did put it that way huh. I don't think it will occur as the traditional suspect process is great and I think the kokoloko method is worse. I was moreso saying that if we get to a point where nobody agrees with what to ban and thus we get consecutive DNB's which stagnate the metagame, then your first option wouldn't work. Again, didn't mean to put it that way, because the current system is fine and there are even talks in the views from the council thread about reducing it to 55% from finch, though not in this gen, which would make it even better than it already is. Sorry for the confusion, I quite often forget to add context/a few key words to my thoughts that completely changes its meaning :smogonbird:
 
Heatranator said:
I mean, there are only three ghost types in the tier, though something like Double Status Dragapult and Scarf Hex Ghold could work together to defeat checks. You would need a dark type, so Gambit could work. Also include a fighting type to destroy dark types that could get in your way. Sadly, due to the limited amount of ghost type, it is difficult to build a team like that. This is a sample team that I quickly whipped up you could experiment and tweak with.
https://pokepast.es/40ef3c9e0648f7ce
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Okay. Would a specs dragapult work? That would be cool with shadow ball spam. I also meant not like only ghost types but like two ghost types aas the wallbreakers that wear down shared checks. Could it possibly be like specs pult+scarf gholdengo with gambit and then a defensive core? IDK if that would work but I'm just nostalgic for ghost spam after gen 8 I guess.
 
Conflux123 said:
Okay. Would a specs dragapult work? That would be cool with shadow ball spam. I also meant not like only ghost types but like two ghost types aas the wallbreakers that wear down shared checks. Could it possibly be like specs pult+scarf gholdengo with gambit and then a defensive core? IDK if that would work but I'm just nostalgic for ghost spam after gen 8 I guess.
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Well, the team was mainly focused around Hex spam, so that's why I didn't choose specs pult. It could work, but then you run into the problem of any defensive dark type kinda stuffing you, which the dual status helps with. Gambit is imo the definite team member you need on the team. Specs pult could work, but you would need to make sure you don't let a dark type set up. If you want to run specs pult and you only want two ghost types, then you could swap out skeledirge for clefable, preferably unaware so you don't lose to the setup sweepers.
 
Just A Shroom God said:
Ok real talk: if we ban kingambit and raging bolt it's gonna be completely chaos. Ghosts get 100x better, especially Dragapult as it jumps from almost-busted to super-busted. Ghold makes a resurgence making it that much harder to remove hazards as excadrill (and sand by proxy) drops because its typing isn't that great anymore. Kyurem completely shatters the tier with specs ice beams, and a bunch of busted setup sweepers lose a revenge killing option i.e. enam wogerpon barra volc valiant serp and tera'd moon. Darkrai actually might make a resurgence as nasty plot LO loses one great check and doesn't have to slot FB, freeing up space for ice beam, sludge bomb, thunder, maybe even options like WoW or Knock. We're gonna need at LEAST 3 more bans (moon pult gouging) with the possibility of more depending on what emerges. It is crazy how much role compression gambit (and to a lesser extent Bolt) has for a setup sweeper.

Not saying we shouldn't, I personally would welcome the reining in of power creep, but it's something to keep aware of
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look ima be real pult just cannot take a hit and if it wants to truly hit hard it either has to choice lock itself or setup over several turns. I'm not saying pult isn't a good pokemon, it definitely is, but there's a reason physical pult is almost always banded or just a meme

Heatranator said:
It's fair to say those, because most people only have 3 mons on their radar as broken, with 5 being the max. Something like zamazenta or darkrai would have been broken in Gen 8 but in this gen due to power creep they are managable.
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I have like 7 and then 3 additional things that might become too much if one of the original 7 are banned
 
YubelVT said:
look ima be real pult just cannot take a hit and if it wants to truly hit hard it either has to choice lock itself or setup over several turns. I'm not saying pult isn't a good pokemon, it definitely is, but there's a reason physical pult is almost always banded or just a meme
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Pult's shadow ball becomes incredibly spammable once Kingambit is gone, and with specs it would attain decent power with basically the most spammable move in OU. The only mon that would really be able to punish it is roaring moon, and that only fits on HO (unless it's band on sun). That makes shadow ball spam basically free against a lot of teams, which is very very good as it has good power and will wear down checks over time.
 
Anchor9 said:
I just lost to the most stupid thing ever. Proof that people bring the most random things even up in the 1600s:

Drifblim @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Electric
- Strength Sap
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power

Like, why?! Again, WHY?!!!!
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I'm for anybody glorifying Drifblim. Where tf is Morkal ?
 
weirdo faye said:
do you guys have any ideas to make this sun team (i rlllly like it its very colorful and fancy) from the samples not actually lose to stall, i tweaked some of the sets to my preferences but ngl its still loses to stall ;-; its so hard to have some fun when all u do is run into stall wannabes.
https://pokepast.es/b1a25a406b672210

i know some ppl here are going to say im here to cry about me being unable to beat stall when i just wanted to see if anyone has suggestions so i can play a team i actually like without getting owned by stall. i think stall is terrible in sv ou (and im entitled to my opinion) and u just feed on clueless people who dont know how to dismantle it so heres something

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js if i bring my own creations i usually dont fail to dismantle most ladder stalls within 20-30 turns, ladder rly do be plagued with stuff like this cos all the recent hot rmts were stall
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Tera Fire CB Adamant max attack Gouging is insane against stall. To give you a taste of its power, it 2HKOes Dondozo after tera fire under sun. Yeah. If you do this though, I would switch roaring moon to a different win condition, like possibly kingambit.
 
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Conflux123 said:
I lost to an alluring voice spam primarina, I set up with tera water volc and then it just used alluring voice, then haxed me with me attacking myself 3 times in a row leading to a loss.
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That...I'm legit sorry for the experience. As a man who lost because every single Dragon Tail missed, I feel you.
 
:Goodra_Hisui:
Goodra-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon
- Knock Off

Archaludon finally left, so I used this citizen here a little.
What it lacks in physical bulk, it makes up for in special, it's insane.
Trading Electro Shot boost by fishing paralyze with Thunder. STABs are non-negotiable, but the last slot is interesting with Knock Off for some progress, Body Press or Hydro Pump/Surf/Weather Ball for pseudo STAB in the rain.
Tera can be aimed at Fairy defensively, but Tera Dragon gives it the power it lacks compared to Archaludon.
Unfortunately it doesn't have Hydration like its original form, but being immune to Grass is very interesting. Speed to pass Pelipper without investment (4), as well as Clefable.
I don't think it's an automatic replacement, but it offers some fun.
 
Conflux123 said:
Tera Fire SB Adamant max attack Gouging is insane against stall. To give you a taste of its power, it 2HKOes Dondozo after tera fire under sun. Yeah. If you do this though, I would switch roaring moon to a different win condition, like possibly kingambit.
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heyo, i usually dont like to share my replays much anymore but i just played a quick 1 with your suggestion (just so you know i actually do try suggestions out if i think theyre good) and what do you know i actually ran into a stall. i think its very satisfying to see a stall player get his team dismantled so ill share this with here with you. lmao0o0o fr i think the only person that wouldnt like this is danny dozo

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2063578022?p2
 
Heatranator said:
Swap out the gouging fire set for choice band, that can break stall really easily with raging fury. Then to compensate, swap the roaring moon set for dd. It may not seem like a lot, but it could help as gouging's raw power can help break a stall team. You also have to play carefully against a stall team and try to get guarenteed progress such as knock off. Sometimes you just have to persevre and keep trying to get a predict right.
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ive got something similar but i tweaked the sets a bit to my preferences now, thanks (:
 
though i have to be honest with you i think the game wouldve harder if he didnt swap his blue blob in directly, so idt its that reliable of a stallbreaker as opposed to taunt and knock off strats but it gave me a laugh so (:
 
YubelVT said:
look ima be real pult just cannot take a hit and if it wants to truly hit hard it either has to choice lock itself or setup over several turns. I'm not saying pult isn't a good pokemon, it definitely is, but there's a reason physical pult is almost always banded or just a meme
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I agree, I was mainly talking about the specs or boots hex sets. DD and band have a lot more checks like ival even if they do hit a bit harder than specs
 
Conflux123 said:
Pult's shadow ball becomes incredibly spammable once Kingambit is gone, and with specs it would attain decent power with basically the most spammable move in OU. The only mon that would really be able to punish it is roaring moon, and that only fits on HO (unless it's band on sun). That makes shadow ball spam basically free against a lot of teams, which is very very good as it has good power and will wear down checks over time.
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This was the status quo in generation 8 and dragapult was very good, but not banworthy. I understand that gen 8 OU and gen 9 OU are very different tiers but I cannot imagine a universe where pult is suddenly so much better in gen 9 than in 8 to be banworthy
 
YubelVT said:
This was the status quo in generation 8 and dragapult was very good, but not banworthy. I understand that gen 8 OU and gen 9 OU are very different tiers but I cannot imagine a universe where pult is suddenly so much better in gen 9 than in 8 to be banworthy
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I agree that for now Dragapult is not banworthy, but for me he is better now than in generation 8.
Scarf is an almost non-existent item for outspeed, being replaced by the 1-use Booster Energy.
There are no more Tapus, especially Fini, in addition to status healing moves being less distributed in the moveset rework, Toxic is no longer accessible to everyone from Gen7 and earlier, so status distribution has become more common, sets with both Thunder Wave and WoW with Hex are viable now.
 
YubelVT said:
This was the status quo in generation 8 and dragapult was very good, but not banworthy. I understand that gen 8 OU and gen 9 OU are very different tiers but I cannot imagine a universe where pult is suddenly so much better in gen 9 than in 8 to be banworthy
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Specs Pult did have to consider the fact that Tyranitar... existed in Gen 8 compared to 9 as a Bulky Switch-in, and Shadow Ball was the one move that let Weavile in against Drag, and potentially giving SS Weavile the turn it needs to SD was legitimately risky enough to second guess Shadow Ball there.

The Gen 8 lookback I think actually shows why Drag could be significantly more concerning if we lose its tenuous Ghost resist options like Gambit or a decline in Ting-Lu. Gen 8 was a Meta with a lot more room for Bulky/Balance teams where Dragapult's neutral Shadow Balls didn't make as much free Progress compared to how offensive Gen 9 lets you be, and a lot of tier staples have a lot more to fear due to statline (Great Tusk), Hazard Spam, lack of recovery, or simply not being able to make enough progress to justify tanking a SBall.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
the one with 160 attack and 60-power stab priority?
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maayyyyyyyyybee that one?
breloom and scizor both have a 60 base power priority move.
I did the math and if their piriority had 70 base power they would do almost the same ammount of damage that palafin's jet punch does.

it looks to me like palafin is the least broken ubers pokemon right now.
the metagame has changed a lot since it got banned.
ogeron can keep it in check by absorbing its water moves.
there is also rilaboom which also has a priority stab that can hit it super effectively.
zamazenta should also be able to tank its hits.
dondozo was always an answer to it.

are we sure that he is going to be much of a problem?

any way.

if you think that he is still going to be an issue if he gets tested then I am not going to insist.
I just said that theoretically speaking he may not be much of an issue.

I can't think of anything in defence for the other ubers.
 
Soiramio3000 said:
maayyyyyyyyybee that one?
breloom and scizor both have a 60 base power priority move.
I did the math and if their piriority had 70 base power they would do almost the same ammount of damage that palafin's jet punch does.

it looks to me like palafin is the least broken ubers pokemon right now.
the metagame has changed a lot since it got banned.
ogeron can keep it in check by absorbing its water moves.
there is also rilaboom which also has a priority stab that can hit it super effectively.
zamazenta should also be able to tank its hits.
dondozo was always an answer to it.

are we sure that he is going to be much of a problem?

any way.

if you think that he is still going to be an issue if he gets tested then I am not going to insist.
I just said that theoretically speaking he may not be much of an issue.

I can't think of anything in defence for the other ubers.
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Guys, for the past 4 weeks this forum has discussed how broken rain is. We finally ban the Pokémon that abuses rain like no other and we are now making up priority moves that Breloom and Scizor don’t have to try and justify bringing another infamous rain abuser back to OU?
 
Soiramio3000 said:
maayyyyyyyyybee that one?
breloom and scizor both have a 60 base power priority move.
I did the math and if their piriority had 70 base power they would do almost the same ammount of damage that palafin's jet punch does.

it looks to me like palafin is the least broken ubers pokemon right now.
the metagame has changed a lot since it got banned.
ogeron can keep it in check by absorbing its water moves.
there is also rilaboom which also has a priority stab that can hit it super effectively.
zamazenta should also be able to tank its hits.
dondozo was always an answer to it.

are we sure that he is going to be much of a problem?

any way.

if you think that he is still going to be an issue if he gets tested then I am not going to insist.
I just said that theoretically speaking he may not be much of an issue.

I can't think of anything in defence for the other ubers.
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Taunt bu tera fairy palafin 1v1's zamazenta
It can take ogerpon as well by taunting and spamming dpunch
Taunt the dozo and chip it down
Insert band rain calc vs rillaboom

Come onnn guys we've had the damn palafin talk like 17 times how about dropping iron bundle instead that could be a fun Uber instead of setup sweepers number 17 million
 
pika pal said:
It would expedite things to skip the "Set-up and kill everything" Mons for the "just kills everything immediately" Mon.
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Skip the "having to use teammates" mon and just unban last respects so we can go to the "sacrifice every mon on your team and click one button" mon. Yes, 4 memento users was a viable strategy with last respects.
And as a fun side bonus, tyranitar becomes OU again, just to sweeten the deal.
 
I didn't think Bolt was an issue. Sure, I've lost to it, I've lost to Gambit before, too. Handles much the same way (at least in lower elo). That's when it hit me - that's an issue in and of itself. We don't need special Gambit. Electric is an amazing offensive type, even in a ground heavy meta, and personally I don't feel like having what feels like 2 Gambit checksin that i gotta prep for the same strategy more than once, and they don't even overlap like that.

I prefer Bolt to Gouging however. At least they need to gather steam, if it's hot out, fuck it Flare Blitz.
 
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