Is that not just a more restrictionary form of doubles? I don’t see what value it provides besides just enabling stall to become viable.
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Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
this seems similar to this very old OM, https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/binary-battles.3557666/
in singles or doubles, if you were to have a pokemon capable of countering an opponents pokemon and sent it out, as long as that pokemon is on the field, if the opponent sends out that pokemon, you can answer it. in this scenario, if you do that, they can send their pokemon at the other lane, and you cannot use that pokemon to answer them. it makes you have to position yourself a lot more carefully.
Regi Cup
Metagame premise: Pokémon's base stats will be tweaked to the closest of 50, 100, and 200. And additionally Pokémon's highest base stat (before the above modification) will be fixed to 200 (hp>atk>def>spa>spd>spe if tied). Detailed explanation is as followed:
- Pokémon's highest base stat will be tweaked to 200 (hp>atk>def>spa>spd>spe if tied).
- If Pokémon's base stat is less than 75, it will be tweaked to 50.
- If Pokémon's base stat is greater than or equal to 75, but less than 150, it will be tweaked to 100.
- If Pokémon's base stat is greater than or equal to 150, it will be tweaked to 200.
EvioliteNFE Pokémon looks like benefiting a lot from the metagame mechanics, especially those gifted with 200 base HP. But what if I tell you that 1.5x base 50 is almost the same as base 100? Besides than I think
chansey can have a niche of being a solid special wall thanks to its 200-100 special bulk.
Ditto"Oh god how can I handle these 200 atk monsters!?" Ditto (with its base 200 HP) is here to force these HO players to improof.
Zamazenta-CrownedThis thing has 200 base Def and Dauntless Shield and STAB Body Press.
Many Pokémon from lower tiers are happy with their new stats. Here are just 2 examples.
Chien-Pao (100-100-100-100-50-200)200 base Speed is more than ideal but with only 100 base Atk I don't think Chien-Pao can play an offensive Role any more.
Q&As:
Q: Why is there a special rule about Pokémon's highest base stat?
A: Otherwise most Pokémon will only have 50 and 100 stats, which makes this meta no longer a fun Regi Cup but a dull 50/100 Cup.
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It seems fine as a new take on Averagemons and Scalemons, I'm not a big fan of making new stat modifier metagames as they have a tendency of losing interest after people have seen all the stat changes, but it does sound like a cool flavor that may get some interest over time and with the previously mentioned formats not returning this gen it may take over that niche.
Metagame premise: Pokémon's base stats will be tweaked to the closest of 50, 100, and 200. And additionally Pokémon's highest base stat (before the above modification) will be fixed to 200 (hp>atk>def>spa>spd>spe if tied). Detailed explanation is as followed:
Potential bans and threats: It will be an Ubers-based metagame since the gaps between base stats are somewhat filled.
- Pokémon's highest base stat will be tweaked to 200 (hp>atk>def>spa>spd>spe if tied).
- If Pokémon's base stat is less than 75, it will be tweaked to 50.
- If Pokémon's base stat is greater than or equal to 75, but less than 150, it will be tweaked to 100.
- If Pokémon's base stat is greater than or equal to 150, it will be tweaked to 200.
NFE Pokémon looks like benefiting a lot from the metagame mechanics, especially those gifted with 200 base HP. But what if I tell you that 1.5x base 50 is almost the same as base 100? Besides than I think
"Oh god how can I handle these 200 atk monsters!?" Ditto (with its base 200 HP) is here to force these HO players to improof.
This thing has 200 base Def and Dauntless Shield and STAB Body Press.
View attachment 678957
View attachment 678958
200 base Speed is more than ideal but with only 100 base Atk I don't think Chien-Pao can play an offensive Role any more.
Q&As:
Q: Why is there a special rule about Pokémon's highest base stat?
A: Otherwise most Pokémon will only have 50 and 100 stats, which makes this meta no longer a fun Regi Cup but a dull 50/100 Cup.
Has there ever been an other meta developed with reversed speed tiers?
Mechanically, this would effectively make Trick Room default (and actually using Trick Room in such a meta would temporarily reestablish the normal default speed tiers but for only 5 turns). This would inherently advantage slow bulky mons, while making fast-glass cannons like Meowscarada and Sneasler unusable, and making for what you might think could develop into a pretty heavy balance/stall based meta, not unlike Balanced Hackmons. On the contrary, to offset this defensive focus, offensive Uber-tier mons (who generally have high speed stats themselves) would provide enough breaking opportunities to dismantle such playstyles.
Furthermore, offensive but slow mons like Ursaluna, Hatterene or Eruption Torkoal would become potent offensive breakers/cleaners.
Any thoughts? Would anyone be interested in such a meta?
Mechanically, this would effectively make Trick Room default (and actually using Trick Room in such a meta would temporarily reestablish the normal default speed tiers but for only 5 turns). This would inherently advantage slow bulky mons, while making fast-glass cannons like Meowscarada and Sneasler unusable, and making for what you might think could develop into a pretty heavy balance/stall based meta, not unlike Balanced Hackmons. On the contrary, to offset this defensive focus, offensive Uber-tier mons (who generally have high speed stats themselves) would provide enough breaking opportunities to dismantle such playstyles.
Furthermore, offensive but slow mons like Ursaluna, Hatterene or Eruption Torkoal would become potent offensive breakers/cleaners.
Any thoughts? Would anyone be interested in such a meta?
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This is a terrible idea, lets do it.
Pretty funny idea, but I can see this meta getting boring pretty fast. The highest stat becoming 200 is just too high and some Pokemon become too samey when they have only 50, 100, or 200 individual stats. Like for example, any Pokemon who is fast with smaller other stats will just have 200 Speed like every other Pokemon whose highest stat is Speed.
Metagame premise: Pokémon's base stats will be tweaked to the closest of 50, 100, and 200. And additionally Pokémon's highest base stat (before the above modification) will be fixed to 200 (hp>atk>def>spa>spd>spe if tied). Detailed explanation is as followed:
Potential bans and threats: It will be an Ubers-based metagame since the gaps between base stats are somewhat filled.
- Pokémon's highest base stat will be tweaked to 200 (hp>atk>def>spa>spd>spe if tied).
- If Pokémon's base stat is less than 75, it will be tweaked to 50.
- If Pokémon's base stat is greater than or equal to 75, but less than 150, it will be tweaked to 100.
- If Pokémon's base stat is greater than or equal to 150, it will be tweaked to 200.
NFE Pokémon looks like benefiting a lot from the metagame mechanics, especially those gifted with 200 base HP. But what if I tell you that 1.5x base 50 is almost the same as base 100? Besides than I think
"Oh god how can I handle these 200 atk monsters!?" Ditto (with its base 200 HP) is here to force these HO players to improof.
This thing has 200 base Def and Dauntless Shield and STAB Body Press.
View attachment 678957
View attachment 678958
200 base Speed is more than ideal but with only 100 base Atk I don't think Chien-Pao can play an offensive Role any more.
Q&As:
Q: Why is there a special rule about Pokémon's highest base stat?
A: Otherwise most Pokémon will only have 50 and 100 stats, which makes this meta no longer a fun Regi Cup but a dull 50/100 Cup.
I think a better approach would be to do
-Highest stat = 200
-2nd/3rd highest stat = 100
-4th highest stat = 80
-5th/6th highest stat = 50
That way there is more variety in stats. Maybe do something similat but with the Eeveelution stats since they are more tame.
Also you completely forgot about Registeel. In your proposal, he gets 100/100/200/100/200/50 stats.
Also Charizard exists. It simply melts everything under the Sun.
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Ghost Registeel in Sun: 331-391 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Tera Fire Charizard Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic in Sun: 221-261 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If you’re 2HKOing Milotic that now has 100/200 Special bulk with resisted attacks, that is something to be concerned about (Charizard also has Solar Beam so that isn’t an option). This shit is Chi-yu x10.
Cuddly's idea for the the Regi Cup OM definitely seems more diverse (and should definitely ban Eviolite), but then won't most offensive Pokemon still be speed tied at 200 (Dragapult, Barraskewda, Weavile, Iron Boulder, Meowscarada, etc) and then any slower offensive Pokemon (Roaring Moon, Darkrai, Iron Valiant, Azelf) be nearly useless from their mostly unchanged/nerfed defensive stats?
There is more variety because the vast majority of Pokemon will have their stats become 100 or 50.
At least with the system I propose, there would be stats that are actually 80 and not every stat spread would look like 50/100/50/50/50/200 or 100/100/100/200/100/50 something like that. You're guaranteed to have two 100 stats, two 50 stats, and one 200 and 80 stats. This also increases the pool of viable Pokemon significantly by making something like Pikachu viable who otherwise is bad.
Yes, that is my point. There are too many viable Pokemon that all reach 200 speed and have 100 in attack or special attack, making HO and balance incredibly repetitive.
I wouldn't be so sure it'd be HO. Its very easy to have something outspeed offensive threats like Charizard or Chi-yu while also having pretty easy access to incredibly bulky Pokemon to stuff out faster Pokemon, whose 100 offenses wouldn't dent 200 defenses.
I already have 2 OMs so if anyone wants to take this they are free to do so. I realized that EV yields are an unutilized aspect of OMs so here we go.
EV Training: The Metagame
Premise: If you KO a Pokemon, effort values get added to your team corresponding to the EV yield of the KO'ed Pokemon. If the team accumulates 4 EVs in any stat, all Pokemon that switch in now will have that stat boosted by 1 stage. In the case of HP, the HP just increases by 50% for stage 1, 100% for stage 2, etc.
Example:
For example, if you KO your opponent's Zapdos and Iron Crown, you get 6 SpA EVs in total. Any Pokemon you switch in will now get a +1 in Special Attack. If you also KO your opponent's Darkrai, you now have 8 SpA EVs in total (and 1 Spe EV) so any Pokemon you switch in will now get a +2 in Special Attack.
Teams with spread out EV yields would obviously be the best. I found an OU sample that illustrates this:
. It's EV yield would be 1/4/2/3/3/3, only giving +1 Attack if the opponent KO's Kyurem and Great Tusk.
Stall teams that rely mostly on passive damage such as hazards and status are great as these teams don't lose a Pokemon very often. In a similar vein, Unaware and Haze are really good.
Questions:
Is this too unbalanced? Giving you boosts if you KO a Pokemon sounds like a sure-fire way to snowball super easily.
Is 4 EVs per stat too easy to get and should this value be changed? Most Pokemon give at least 2 and usually 3 EVs. This makes it so you theoretically only have to KO 2 Pokemon to get your stat boost.
EV Training: The Metagame
Premise: If you KO a Pokemon, effort values get added to your team corresponding to the EV yield of the KO'ed Pokemon. If the team accumulates 4 EVs in any stat, all Pokemon that switch in now will have that stat boosted by 1 stage. In the case of HP, the HP just increases by 50% for stage 1, 100% for stage 2, etc.
Example:
For example, if you KO your opponent's Zapdos and Iron Crown, you get 6 SpA EVs in total. Any Pokemon you switch in will now get a +1 in Special Attack. If you also KO your opponent's Darkrai, you now have 8 SpA EVs in total (and 1 Spe EV) so any Pokemon you switch in will now get a +2 in Special Attack.
Teams with spread out EV yields would obviously be the best. I found an OU sample that illustrates this:
. It's EV yield would be 1/4/2/3/3/3, only giving +1 Attack if the opponent KO's Kyurem and Great Tusk. Stall teams that rely mostly on passive damage such as hazards and status are great as these teams don't lose a Pokemon very often. In a similar vein, Unaware and Haze are really good.
Questions:
Is this too unbalanced? Giving you boosts if you KO a Pokemon sounds like a sure-fire way to snowball super easily.
Is 4 EVs per stat too easy to get and should this value be changed? Most Pokemon give at least 2 and usually 3 EVs. This makes it so you theoretically only have to KO 2 Pokemon to get your stat boost.
Nohaxmons
Premise:All RNG factors are removed. Secondary effects that have a chance of activating will never activate, unless their chance is at least 50%, in which case it will always activated (unless the move is Dire Claw). All moves have perfect accuracy. Speed ties will result in both pokemon using their moves simultaneously. Critical hits will never activate unless the move has at least a 50% chance to happen, in which case it will always activate. Paralysis can't cause you to not move. Abilities with a chance of doing things will never do that thing. (I know that last one is kind of boring, but could you imagine Cursed Body if it always activated). The random damage multiplier is nonexistant. Ect.
Rises/Drops:Dragon types get to use Dragon Rush. Roaring Moon will likely see more usage.
Potential Bans:Sleep moves, OHKO moves, Kyurem (Blizzard) Maushold
Questions:What should be implemented to fix other smaller bits of RNG? Should I be lighter on abilities?
Premise:All RNG factors are removed. Secondary effects that have a chance of activating will never activate, unless their chance is at least 50%, in which case it will always activated (unless the move is Dire Claw). All moves have perfect accuracy. Speed ties will result in both pokemon using their moves simultaneously. Critical hits will never activate unless the move has at least a 50% chance to happen, in which case it will always activate. Paralysis can't cause you to not move. Abilities with a chance of doing things will never do that thing. (I know that last one is kind of boring, but could you imagine Cursed Body if it always activated). The random damage multiplier is nonexistant. Ect.
Rises/Drops:Dragon types get to use Dragon Rush. Roaring Moon will likely see more usage.
Potential Bans:Sleep moves, OHKO moves, Kyurem (Blizzard) Maushold
Questions:What should be implemented to fix other smaller bits of RNG? Should I be lighter on abilities?
ok short lived break is over (for ideas at least). Here's one that keeps garbage pokemon garbage but makes them viable while not having the premise of loser's game. The meta itself may be garbage too.
also among the "feel free to take it if you like it" (bit swamped to submit right now)
BATTLE & BARTER
Metagame premise: The healthy pokemon sitting in the back of your party (the pokemon Zoroark would use to set its illusion) will be traded at the end of turn with the active opposing pokemon if they both share a common type.
Q: What is a trade?
A: For the purposes of compatibility with PS - a double permanent form swap
Q: Is your last slot pokemon the same as your 6th slot pokemon?
A: Initially yes, but doesn't always have to be. This uses the same mechanics as how illusion is copied.
Q: How do you know what pokemon occupies opponent's last slot?
A: Progress Checker / last mon reveal clause
Q: What if you're down to your last pokemon?
A: No illusions to copy, therefore your team cannot force a trade. Your opponent can still force a trade if they have more than 1 pokemon.
Some Strategies:
1) Creating a "type chokehold" with your active pokemon and your last slot pokemon such that threats cannot switch in easily.
2) Running 1 or 2 LC Pokémon in last slot(s) with type coverage that is a threat or shared with known threats to the rest of your team.
3) Having your team members to be as distinctly typed as possible. Monotype teams will be very unstable as you're prone to never-ending trades.
4) Running pokemon walled by your own team
5) You need to lookout for 2 potential trades, one between your active pokemon and opponent's last pokemon and one between your last pokemon and opponent's active pokemon
6) Putting the actual pokemon you want to trade with opponent in 5th (penultimate) slot. Having a pokemon in 5th slot that shares a type with most threatening opposing pokemon helps you in the long run. If that pokemon gets a kill, you’re guaranteed to get them via trade as you can make your last slot pokemon active while prepping 5th one for trade before end of turn. (a bit complicated)
(+) Viability:
These items are quite powerful, as they allow you to shuffle your own or opposing team-members, potentially guaranteeing a trade.
Volt-Switch, U-turn, Flip Turn: Pivot moves are important scouting moves that can help you make or avoid a trade.
Roar, Whirlwind, Circle Throw, Dragon Tail: These can force random trades and as such probably belong in the banlist
These mons, when active have the potential to guarantee trades by becoming a random type.
These mons and more get type changing moves, which are quite powerful for this meta, if you want to force a trade.
tera has niche in this meta as it is a potential safeguard against unwanted trades.
booming and other self-sacrificial moves: Fainting can be a positive in this OM as this gives you control over pokemon in the back of your party before the turn is over
(-) Viability:
Monotype teams as mentioned in strategy
Weather centered teams
Stall as this can be easily disrupted with a trade
Banlist: OU Banlist + other things TBD
Questions for the community:
Too much chaos / unpredictability / hard to code?
Is it better to limit to sharing primary types?
Do you think troll teams have any chance to win in this?
What do you think a competitive team would look like?
also among the "feel free to take it if you like it" (bit swamped to submit right now)
Metagame premise: The healthy pokemon sitting in the back of your party (the pokemon Zoroark would use to set its illusion) will be traded at the end of turn with the active opposing pokemon if they both share a common type.
Q: What is a trade?
A: For the purposes of compatibility with PS - a double permanent form swap
Q: Is your last slot pokemon the same as your 6th slot pokemon?
A: Initially yes, but doesn't always have to be. This uses the same mechanics as how illusion is copied.
Q: How do you know what pokemon occupies opponent's last slot?
A: Progress Checker / last mon reveal clause
Q: What if you're down to your last pokemon?
A: No illusions to copy, therefore your team cannot force a trade. Your opponent can still force a trade if they have more than 1 pokemon.
Some Strategies:
1) Creating a "type chokehold" with your active pokemon and your last slot pokemon such that threats cannot switch in easily.
2) Running 1 or 2 LC Pokémon in last slot(s) with type coverage that is a threat or shared with known threats to the rest of your team.
3) Having your team members to be as distinctly typed as possible. Monotype teams will be very unstable as you're prone to never-ending trades.
4) Running pokemon walled by your own team
5) You need to lookout for 2 potential trades, one between your active pokemon and opponent's last pokemon and one between your last pokemon and opponent's active pokemon
6) Putting the actual pokemon you want to trade with opponent in 5th (penultimate) slot. Having a pokemon in 5th slot that shares a type with most threatening opposing pokemon helps you in the long run. If that pokemon gets a kill, you’re guaranteed to get them via trade as you can make your last slot pokemon active while prepping 5th one for trade before end of turn. (a bit complicated)
(+) Viability:
Volt-Switch, U-turn, Flip Turn: Pivot moves are important scouting moves that can help you make or avoid a trade.
Roar, Whirlwind, Circle Throw, Dragon Tail: These can force random trades and as such probably belong in the banlist
(-) Viability:
Monotype teams as mentioned in strategy
Weather centered teams
Stall as this can be easily disrupted with a trade
Banlist: OU Banlist + other things TBD
Questions for the community:
Too much chaos / unpredictability / hard to code?
Is it better to limit to sharing primary types?
Do you think troll teams have any chance to win in this?
What do you think a competitive team would look like?
My Turn!
Rules:
Mechanic: True Turn-Based Combat. At the start of the battle, the faster Pokemon goes first, then the opposing Pokemon acts. Turn order gets re-calculated every traditional turn (aka 2 individual turns, which is where terrain/weather/etc. calculation also happens), meaning a player can also act twice in a row, but both players will cumulatively act for the same amount of overall turns.
Taken from this game, we lead with Landorus-Therian vs Great Tusk
Turn 1 Begins
Faster Action: Landorus-Therian is faster, so it U-Turns out into Ogerpon-Wellspring
Slower Action: Great Tusk is now faced off against Ogerpon-Wellspring, so the opponent decides to switch it out for Dragapult
Turn 2 Begins
Faster Action: Dragapult is faster, so it clicks Will-O-Wisp
Slower Action: Ogerpon-Wellspring is burned and knows it, so the player decides to click Knock Off in return.
Turn 3 Begins
Faster Action: Dragapult is faster, and decides to click U-Turn into Zapdos
Slower Action: Ogerpon-Wellspring is faced against a Zapdos, so the player clicks U-Turn into Slowking-Galar
The game goes on with this repeating pattern, with the faster pokemon acting first and the opposing pokemon acting second, then turn order being recalculated
Turn 1 Begins
Faster Action: Landorus-Therian is faster, so it U-Turns out into Ogerpon-Wellspring
Slower Action: Great Tusk is now faced off against Ogerpon-Wellspring, so the opponent decides to switch it out for Dragapult
Turn 2 Begins
Faster Action: Dragapult is faster, so it clicks Will-O-Wisp
Slower Action: Ogerpon-Wellspring is burned and knows it, so the player decides to click Knock Off in return.
Turn 3 Begins
Faster Action: Dragapult is faster, and decides to click U-Turn into Zapdos
Slower Action: Ogerpon-Wellspring is faced against a Zapdos, so the player clicks U-Turn into Slowking-Galar
The game goes on with this repeating pattern, with the faster pokemon acting first and the opposing pokemon acting second, then turn order being recalculated
Bans: Annihilape, Arceus-*, Basculegion-Base, Baxcalibur, Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Darkrai, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Base, Dialga, Dialga-Origin, Eternatus, Espathra, Iron Bundle, Flutter Mane, Giratina, Giratina-Origin, Gouging Fire, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Landorus, Lugia, Lunala, Koraidon, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Magearna, Mewtwo, Miraidon, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Palafin, Palkia, Palkia-Origin, Rayquaza, Regieleki, Reshiram, Sneasler, Spectrier, Terapagos, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Urshifu, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Volcarona, Zacian, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta, Zamazenta-Crowned, Moody, Shadow Tag
Quirks:
- Priority does not function. I don't think there's any good workaround that would make this not into a Pet Mod, but suggestions are open. Moves like Protect and Endure can still be used but are generally less useful now.
- Speed is important and switching can be dangerous: pivoting moves don't allow you to come in for free, meaning when you switch a Pokemon in, due to turn recalculation, if they switch in a faster Pokemon that OHKOs you they can faint your Pokemon right then and there.
- This is one of the few OMs where the Terastal phenomenon is actually weaker, as it removes the surprise aspect that so often wins games, thus Tera is unbanned.
Council:
none yet! @ me about it if you like the idea
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I think this is the biggest issue with this idea. By switching a slow Pokemon out and a fast Pokemon in, you get to go twice in a row and potentially KO the opponent using a mon that wasn't on the field when you started, which seems extremely broken.
Also, Focus Punch should be banned, since this meta makes it a 150BP move with no drawbacks.
fix this, and I'm so in
Perhaps status moves already with priority/Prankster can still have priority? I don’t like the idea of Choice Itemed Pokemon running around without any effective way to scout/eliminate them with the lack of Protect or offensive priority moves.
the first suggestion i would have is a naming thing really to avoid a bit of confusion - i would make the "new" turn definition to called actions instead, while keeping the "original" turn definition - ie turn recalculation would be called action order recalculation, two actions in a turn, one action per player in a turn, etc
second suggestion to address the very valid problems above: i theorised that perhaps the action order should not change after the first turn, but this comes with its own problems (mainly being making speed completely obsolete).
another solution to balance slow pivoting would be: if you switch, you always move last, unless both players switched, in which case action order recalculation would happen as normal
final note: with priority becoming obsolete by the nature of the metagame, phasing moves would need to be banned chartung provides a pretty good reason as to why this is not the case below
second suggestion to address the very valid problems above: i theorised that perhaps the action order should not change after the first turn, but this comes with its own problems (mainly being making speed completely obsolete).
another solution to balance slow pivoting would be: if you switch, you always move last, unless both players switched, in which case action order recalculation would happen as normal
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I disagree. In most metas, the turn ends when you're phased out, but in this case, if a mon is phased out, the mon that replaced it would still be able to move that turn.
A point worth discussing, and I see two ways to go with this:
- Embrace the nature of what it provides. MT!'s idea is perfect sequencing and ideal plays, since lines are straightforward besides luck you know exactly what can happen and how. Let's take a scenario: Lead Deoxys-Speed vs Lead Ting-Lu: something straightforward to think is that Iron Valiant is a good mon to switch into Ting-Lu, but not if they have their own Deoxys-Speed in the back, you risk your Pokemon dying right away. This is sort of how very fast and strong Pokemon self balance themselves, in this scenario they become a liability. Depending on team compositions a better approach than going Iron Valiant would be to go a bulky mon like Kyurem or Zapdos, that wins the 1v1 without getting instantly OHKO'd by something in the back. This can create a trade-heavy metagame that rewards good positioning and momentum the utmost, with players running into dead ends if they didn't have enough foresight. It's really hard to theorycraft so we'd have to see how it goes in practice
- Try to mitigate the perceived issue. My preferred idea is that slow switch-out makes the pokemon who is switching in act second in the next turn, no matter what. This maintains Pokemon's core lack of switch-in "safety", in that you are hardly ever able to bring in a threat for free and get a kill off it, but you instead have to work for it by getting your threat in against a Pokemon that cannot kill you, and that you can kill back. This can also polarize MUs by making it extremely more difficult to switch into a strong Pokemon, considering one Quiver Dance or Dragon Dance can have you completely cooked. I would say this more closely resembles how Pokemon is currently played, so it's an option worth considering.
- What the fuck is a speed stat?! Option 3 consists in calculating turn order at preview using the average speed of all Pokemon on the field, and maintaining that turn order for the rest of the game. This is a potentially gamebreakingly horrible option that I am including because I find it sorta amusing.
I still think we could implement something similar to option 3 for deciding turn order: given that speed is very important in this meta and high speed mons are bound to be prevalent, this would sort of balance it by giving the slower team the advantage, counterpicking their lead. It would also help remove the potentially only 50/50 in the game.
The problem is the logistics of the implementation: say a slower Pokemon wants to use the move Protect, how do you make that happen. Do you give the slower Pokemon the choice to act first by using the priority move every time he's moving second, effectively broadcasting that they have a priority move and adding a plethora of empty confirmation turns in each game? Do you make it a "quick time event" by being able to click Protect in your opponent's turn if you're faster than him but making Protect counterplay be "literally just instaclick"?
Choice Items still have their drawbacks: a Choice Band Iron Valiant may click Spirit Break on your Great Tusk, but instead of being forced to go a faster mon that OHKOs, you can now safely go Kingambit, force them to switch out and kill something else entirely. Probably a poor example but you get the idea.
While theorycrafting with a few friends we also thought about negative priority moves like Trick Room and Counter. While technically you can just remove the priority from the moves, they can end up being overly broken as a result, so more discussion has to be done about that.
And yeah Focus Punch should definitely be banned, the alternative is that we have it work the same way it normally does, with it only attacking if you don't get hit in the opponent's next action, but that sounds sorta gimmicky to implement with slow focus punch and would also probably just make the move useless as a result. There's definitely other things that need to be looked at, like the ability Stakeout and moves like Eject Pack and Eject Button, but all in due time.
pokemon has become chess now. whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is for you to decide.
I would just make priority status moves bypass the mechanic entirely. The person using the status move can only use it when it is their time to perform an action, and the turn order would not be changed unless the Pokemon uses Prankster Tailwind or some other speed-modifying status move that raises the speed high enough.
Doesn't this just essentially turn the meta into a game of a ton of forced 1v1s? You send out a Pokemon to OHKO the Iron Valiant, then what? Your opponent sends out a Pokemon to OHKO or set up on that Pokemon, and so on. I predict the strategy will just be to either setup early and eliminate your opponents with sheer power, or to build a team maximizing coverage moves. With how offense-oriented this metagame is, I propose unbanning Ho-Oh and/or Lugia.
I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. You mean that you would make it so a move with +priority can only be used if you have the first action? Doesn't that actually just nerf the move instead? I also don't understand how using Prankster Tailwind would function logistically, you cannot select the move until it's your action, so how are you gonna modify the turn order retroactively?
Valid thought, and we can't really know until we try, so here's something we can use for reference:
My Turn! Replay Showcase
I made this replay by playing against myself using two OU sample teams and pitting them against each other, emulating the My Turn! metagame by going into custom game and using splash to give players the free action. I do have to note that I messed up on Turn 25, because Zapdos used Slow Volt Switch on Turn 24, thus Samurott Hisui should've gone first, and gotten the guaranteed Knock Off on Slowking Galar. I'm not certain whether I made any mistakes elsewhere but I'm pretty sure I got the rest of the turns correct.
I might end up making more, and if you wanna try it out yourself, make note of the fact that AV and Choice Items don't really work with this format. You can bypass AV by using something like Dream Eater, but Choice Items require some annoying double switching, and that can be tedious to keep track + ticks burn/terrain and other effects even more.
So, what does this tell us?
What I noticed is that it's not that easy for someone to get a cheeky guaranteed kill right away, you have to stumble across a position that allows for it, due to the opponent not playing correctly. This may be due to the team compositions since the amount of mons that OHKOd each other was sort of scarce, so I will have to test with more offensive teams, and also with more defensive teams, I encourage you all to try this method if you're interested.
One important consideration is that progress, momentum and positioning are more important than ever, so the onus is on every Pokemon to be worthwhile and do something useful., simply sitting down and walling the opponent is not worthwhile enough, which is why Garganacl ended up being simply dead weight, the moveset of Earthquake, Salt Cure, Curse, Recover was not enough to get immediate pressure.
I might test some games with the mechanics of "slow action switch makes the pokemon go last the turn after" to test how it plays out, but I'm liking the way this metagame is played as of rn. I'm potentially concerned that the meta could become streamlined given that there's a real chance moves can be "forced" and the only skill expression being "don't do something stupid, silly", but there's a plethora of options and lines are a bit too long to calculate, so I don't think this is gonna happen.
Lastly I may have been wrong about Terastal, there's no option for defensive tera, so offensive tera can become too annoying to handle, which is why I didn't use it in my showcase; we'll have to see about that situation too.