Based on the voting sheet, alphabetical order actually starts in the B ranks. I think the OP just didn't get updated when we made the switch.
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Resource SV Ubers Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Aberforth
- Start date
Yup!
Fixed the OP to reflect that both the S tier and the 3 A tiers are ranked in order of viabiltiy as voted by the VR council. B+ and below is ranked alphabetically.
Arceus-Dark: C+ --> C
What does he even DO ? in the current meta? It's thoroughly outclassed by many of the common defensive staples, and it has to compete with some of the best Pokémon in the tier just to even show up on a team. Other Arceus forms are also very capable of running Taunt + Calm Mind sets to far greater success without having to deal with being weak to the top Pokémon. Arceus-Fire and Arceus-Ground also hit Necrozma hard, while offering their own upsides beyond just checking Necrozma (typing, coverage, moveslots, etc.). Arceus fairy water and even ghost are far better in terms of defensive capability.
The only reason I wouldn't personally call this mon completely unviable is that defensive Will-O-Wisp sets can bait in Koraidon or Zacian and burn them on the switch. Long story short: C+ to even further down to C-
hot take time lets go
Tinkaton: UR > C+
Tinkaton is actually an interesting utility pokemon for balance teams, being able to compress Knock Off + Stealth Rocks for teams while having a pretty serviceable bulk and powerful typing that allows it to score Paralysis against a large portion of the metagame consistently. This competes pretty directly with defensive NDM sets which can also compress those same moves while having reliable healing, but the unique benefits to Tinkaton appear when you start utilizing its Fairy typing and access to encore to help it disrupt CM Arceus-formes and get your team in, rather than being an abusable blob for setup.
A lot of Tink's value comes from how you can weaponize the multitude of utilities it can carry on one set, seeing as its speed stat requires very little investment to outspeed every relevant pokemon short of Deo-S after paralysis. This actually makes it an incredibly solid anti-lead into all of the relevant HO leads, by taking apart the lead and staggering it from making free progress and pivoting in some method of removal support to follow (usually Gira-O) since most HO teams don't want to let something get paralyzed for free.
Tinkaton: UR > C+
Tinkaton @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 192 SpD / 64 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Thunder Wave
- Knock Off
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 192 SpD / 64 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Thunder Wave
- Knock Off
Tinkaton is actually an interesting utility pokemon for balance teams, being able to compress Knock Off + Stealth Rocks for teams while having a pretty serviceable bulk and powerful typing that allows it to score Paralysis against a large portion of the metagame consistently. This competes pretty directly with defensive NDM sets which can also compress those same moves while having reliable healing, but the unique benefits to Tinkaton appear when you start utilizing its Fairy typing and access to encore to help it disrupt CM Arceus-formes and get your team in, rather than being an abusable blob for setup.
A lot of Tink's value comes from how you can weaponize the multitude of utilities it can carry on one set, seeing as its speed stat requires very little investment to outspeed every relevant pokemon short of Deo-S after paralysis. This actually makes it an incredibly solid anti-lead into all of the relevant HO leads, by taking apart the lead and staggering it from making free progress and pivoting in some method of removal support to follow (usually Gira-O) since most HO teams don't want to let something get paralyzed for free.
Deo-S:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336663073-knm96v74do8kqgdwu54m8c3vnipbh2wpw
Glimm:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336391520-l4ri6amolwsw8331bjcbrrcqfqsxon1pw
somehow when writing this I realized i forgot to get a webs replay but it does virtually the same thing on anti-lead here I'll edit one in later
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336663073-knm96v74do8kqgdwu54m8c3vnipbh2wpw
Glimm:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336391520-l4ri6amolwsw8331bjcbrrcqfqsxon1pw
somehow when writing this I realized i forgot to get a webs replay but it does virtually the same thing on anti-lead here I'll edit one in later
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336840303-88kxgppu2djxlsk8pwahvvyj2bn44qepw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2335692776-th8fgedtgd8nmebchf8spe9jaikijdipw
didn't realize i was faster than lando t1 lol:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336110007-j31xwy1vepdo3byv4da7mxiaro0xn77pw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336656577-ipn6rpheybmm0u4dj1ax3429od3rjjypw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2335692776-th8fgedtgd8nmebchf8spe9jaikijdipw
didn't realize i was faster than lando t1 lol:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336110007-j31xwy1vepdo3byv4da7mxiaro0xn77pw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2336656577-ipn6rpheybmm0u4dj1ax3429od3rjjypw
STOP EVERYTHING AND RANK GOODRA-HISUI HES LITERALLY TING LU BUT IF HE HAD 8X MORE BITCHES LIKE CAN U IMAGINE TINGLU BUT HE WALLS KYOGRE?! THIS SHIT CRAZY AF SPIKES IS OVERRATED ANYWAYS LIKE EVERYTHING ALREADY OHKOES EVERYTHING ELSE SO Y DO U NEED SPIKES? NOT TO MENTION HE HAS GOOEY WHICH LIKE LETS U SACK VS KORAI AND THEN GO TO YOUR OWN KORAI TO COUNTERATTACK LIKE U CANT MAKE THIS UP GOODRA IS LITERALLY LEBRON HOW IS HE NOT RANKED BRO WALLS EVERY SPECIAL ATTACKER IN THE TIER ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY HES LIKE A CLOD+TING LU MIX MON BUT DOESN'T LOOK UGLY LIKE U CRAZY? ALSO LIKE UNLIKE LU U CAN'T USE HIM ON WEAK SHIT PLAYSTYLES U NEED 3 DON DADAS THAT WIN BEFORE HOODRA DECIDES YOUR ASS IS TOO PATHETIC FOR HIM TO BE DEFENDING U FROM ALL THOSE SPECIAL ATTACKERS
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thinking about how this legend farmed 51 react points from this
Goodra-Hisui is literally Ting-Lu but if he had 8x more bitches. Absolute Cinema. Nomming this post to S+ (2) (the view vs the strap is still S+ (1) i'm afraid...)
Can someone explain to me what makes RIbombee A tier as a web setter and why it is better than Araquanid in Ubers ? Cause I thought Araquanid was just overall better or is that just an OU thing
aquaranid is very slow, and ribombee has stun spore to paralyze most mons, plus stab moonblast hits korai for a ko which makes it risky to send it out vs a bee. Bee's just more reliable in this tier.
Faster than arceus forms so can taunt and fairy typing means it isn’t scale shot setup fodder
here's some noms while I'm on break, including a potentially controversial suggestion that I feel is the best solution for VR accuracy.
Rises:
-> S+
I understand VRs tend to shy away from subranks in the S tiers, but truthfully there just isn't a better way to characterize the meta and especially this mon. While Ho-Oh and Kyogre are amazing, lots of teams can justify dropping either or both. The same is just absolutely not true for Koraidon; unless you're using stall (which isn't really in the best place rn) there is literally no reason to drop Koraidon. It's nigh-mandatory and firmly in a class of its own.
-> S (2)
The reason I feel subranks in the S tiers are needed is because of Ho-Oh and Kyogre, who are just straight up better than everything in the A tiers. Their splashability is so great that it's quite uncommon to not see at least one on any given team, and they both consistently significantly impact every game they appear. Kyogre is similar in viability to the currently S-ranked Ho-Oh, which warrants Kyogre being in S as well.
-> A (3)
Arguably the best non-Fairy Arceus in the tier, only things that keep it from rising higher are that it doesn't fit on HO at all and can sometimes be passive in sun
-> B+
Highkey this mon is super underrated, its been seeing more usage and wins since UPL but there's more room for experimentation with this mon imo. Outside of the Tera Ghost CM Taunt set used on HO, it's one of the better Arceus formes on bulky offense teams electing to drop Arceus-Fairy. It's a CM Arc that actually threatens Ho-Oh and Kyogre with STAB which is insane, plus has coverage to take on the few Electric resists in the tier in conjunction with Tera. Defensively, it helps its team play around Zacian and to a lesser extent Ho-Oh. Ofc it isn't perfect in the latter role, but a Zacian check is a Zacian check no matter how you slice it.
-> B+
Spikes are good and this mon is a decently sturdy Spiker and phazer vs mons like Koraidon and Zacian, even if its not perfect. It also doesnt have the passivity issues that Ting-Lu and Gliscor tend to run into because it actually has an offensive profile. It's being used and winning more than ever in important games to the point where C+ rank is doing it a disservice.
-> C+
-> C
Will have to see more of these two before I can confidently rank them any higher, but they've been seeing scattered usage and success and deserve to be ranked.
Drops:
-> A- (3)
CM feels insanely underwhelming and I often feel like bulky teams with it would much rather be using a different Arceus, DDance is good (especially mixed) but really doesn't fit outside of HO. Groundy is good ofc, just not splashable enough to warrant any higher than A-.
-> B-
This mon just doesn't see much use anymore as the teams it used to do so well on have been struggling to keep up in this meta. It's passive, not a good defensive answer to the top threats, and hard to justify over mons like LandoT, Groudon, and Ting-Lu. It's a staple on stall, but stall itself is not in the best place right now so that doesnt mean much.
-> B
Passivity, lack of recovery, and weaknesses to top mons has been hurting it for a long time, made even more prominent now with the return of Groudon who isnt passive and lacks important weaknesses that Ting has, most notably to Korai, Zac, and Arceus-Fairy. Being the best Etern answer is valuable, and it's sturdier against niche CM Arcs, but Groudon matches up better into the top mons overall which has hurt Ting a good amount.
-> B+
-> B
HO is real and you have to respect it, but it's just not consistent enough to warrant the current ranks for the HO leads.
-> B-
-> C+
These guys just haven't been seeing nearly as much usage or success as they used to a couple months ago, certainly not enough to remain in their current ranks.
-> C+
Both of these mons have been fraudulent for a long time, they're okay into bulky offense but their nonexistent defensive profile has kept them from being much more than paper mons that just suck to actually use, and both are rarely used as a result.
-> B-
Screens are fishy, moreso than the other HO styles, but it occasionally has its moments which is why Grimm is not lower. KyuB's awful defensive profile makes it more or less tied to screens, so it should be in the same rank as Grimm.
-> C+
This mon is good on paper, but in practice there's just always better options than this mon to the point where it just doesn't fit on more than a handful of teams.
-> C
Stall has its moments sometimes but it's just too fishy and inconsistent to bring in important games vs good players, it just hasn't been seen tour use in a hot minute and thus doesn't deserve to be ranked anywhere higher than C.
There are also many Pokemon that are only ranked for "vacuum niches;" that is, niches that a mon technically has that pushed it onto the VR, but in practice do not make the mon worth using. The full list of these mons are:
- Chien-Pao
- Mewtwo
- Rayquaza
- Alomomola
- Arceus-Poison
- Garganacl
- Gouging Fire
- Zekrom
- Everything currently in C and C-
I am suggesting all of these mons to be dropped to D rank or unranked.
Finally, my personal VR. All mons are ordered by viability in their subranks until B+, at which point all mons are ordered alphabetically. Anything not listed is unviable. (unless I forgot something)
Rises:
-> S+ I understand VRs tend to shy away from subranks in the S tiers, but truthfully there just isn't a better way to characterize the meta and especially this mon. While Ho-Oh and Kyogre are amazing, lots of teams can justify dropping either or both. The same is just absolutely not true for Koraidon; unless you're using stall (which isn't really in the best place rn) there is literally no reason to drop Koraidon. It's nigh-mandatory and firmly in a class of its own.
-> S (2)The reason I feel subranks in the S tiers are needed is because of Ho-Oh and Kyogre, who are just straight up better than everything in the A tiers. Their splashability is so great that it's quite uncommon to not see at least one on any given team, and they both consistently significantly impact every game they appear. Kyogre is similar in viability to the currently S-ranked Ho-Oh, which warrants Kyogre being in S as well.
-> A (3)Arguably the best non-Fairy Arceus in the tier, only things that keep it from rising higher are that it doesn't fit on HO at all and can sometimes be passive in sun
-> B+Highkey this mon is super underrated, its been seeing more usage and wins since UPL but there's more room for experimentation with this mon imo. Outside of the Tera Ghost CM Taunt set used on HO, it's one of the better Arceus formes on bulky offense teams electing to drop Arceus-Fairy. It's a CM Arc that actually threatens Ho-Oh and Kyogre with STAB which is insane, plus has coverage to take on the few Electric resists in the tier in conjunction with Tera. Defensively, it helps its team play around Zacian and to a lesser extent Ho-Oh. Ofc it isn't perfect in the latter role, but a Zacian check is a Zacian check no matter how you slice it.
-> B+Spikes are good and this mon is a decently sturdy Spiker and phazer vs mons like Koraidon and Zacian, even if its not perfect. It also doesnt have the passivity issues that Ting-Lu and Gliscor tend to run into because it actually has an offensive profile. It's being used and winning more than ever in important games to the point where C+ rank is doing it a disservice.
-> C+ -> CWill have to see more of these two before I can confidently rank them any higher, but they've been seeing scattered usage and success and deserve to be ranked.
Drops:
-> A- (3)CM feels insanely underwhelming and I often feel like bulky teams with it would much rather be using a different Arceus, DDance is good (especially mixed) but really doesn't fit outside of HO. Groundy is good ofc, just not splashable enough to warrant any higher than A-.
-> B-This mon just doesn't see much use anymore as the teams it used to do so well on have been struggling to keep up in this meta. It's passive, not a good defensive answer to the top threats, and hard to justify over mons like LandoT, Groudon, and Ting-Lu. It's a staple on stall, but stall itself is not in the best place right now so that doesnt mean much.
-> BPassivity, lack of recovery, and weaknesses to top mons has been hurting it for a long time, made even more prominent now with the return of Groudon who isnt passive and lacks important weaknesses that Ting has, most notably to Korai, Zac, and Arceus-Fairy. Being the best Etern answer is valuable, and it's sturdier against niche CM Arcs, but Groudon matches up better into the top mons overall which has hurt Ting a good amount.
-> B+ -> BHO is real and you have to respect it, but it's just not consistent enough to warrant the current ranks for the HO leads.
-> B- -> C+These guys just haven't been seeing nearly as much usage or success as they used to a couple months ago, certainly not enough to remain in their current ranks.
-> C+Both of these mons have been fraudulent for a long time, they're okay into bulky offense but their nonexistent defensive profile has kept them from being much more than paper mons that just suck to actually use, and both are rarely used as a result.
-> B-Screens are fishy, moreso than the other HO styles, but it occasionally has its moments which is why Grimm is not lower. KyuB's awful defensive profile makes it more or less tied to screens, so it should be in the same rank as Grimm.
-> C+This mon is good on paper, but in practice there's just always better options than this mon to the point where it just doesn't fit on more than a handful of teams.
-> CStall has its moments sometimes but it's just too fishy and inconsistent to bring in important games vs good players, it just hasn't been seen tour use in a hot minute and thus doesn't deserve to be ranked anywhere higher than C.
There are also many Pokemon that are only ranked for "vacuum niches;" that is, niches that a mon technically has that pushed it onto the VR, but in practice do not make the mon worth using. The full list of these mons are:
- Chien-Pao
- Mewtwo
- Rayquaza
- Alomomola
- Arceus-Poison
- Garganacl
- Gouging Fire
- Zekrom
- Everything currently in C and C-
I am suggesting all of these mons to be dropped to D rank or unranked.
Finally, my personal VR. All mons are ordered by viability in their subranks until B+, at which point all mons are ordered alphabetically. Anything not listed is unviable. (unless I forgot something)
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Last edited:
Wanted to do a longer post in here sometime soon but now I don't have to :4Evil:
Endorsing everything this Oreo fella said before the "Drops" section. Maybe Groudon to "A-" since it's a staple mon on a seemingly solid BO archetype (cm Ceus + Don spikes + knock NDM, sometimes Pagos; and variations on that theme). Really it's just pretty nice to be a bulky spiker that isn't forced to kick the can down the road in most interactions courtesy of an actual offensive presence.
As for the drops, I disagree about Groundceus, definitely feel like it belongs in "A" at worst (recover DD in particular is ending games with increasing frequency, even if the BO structures that fit it the best are probably a little non-standard). I think I also have qualms with the ranks assigned to the hatt-ditto-pagos anti-offense thruple, but otherwise I mostly agree.
Endorsing everything this Oreo fella said before the "Drops" section. Maybe Groudon to "A-" since it's a staple mon on a seemingly solid BO archetype (cm Ceus + Don spikes + knock NDM, sometimes Pagos; and variations on that theme). Really it's just pretty nice to be a bulky spiker that isn't forced to kick the can down the road in most interactions courtesy of an actual offensive presence.
As for the drops, I disagree about Groundceus, definitely feel like it belongs in "A" at worst (recover DD in particular is ending games with increasing frequency, even if the BO structures that fit it the best are probably a little non-standard). I think I also have qualms with the ranks assigned to the hatt-ditto-pagos anti-offense thruple, but otherwise I mostly agree.
D -> CThe standard set of Dragon Tail, Will-O-Wisp, Defog, and Rest can be awkward to use at times, but its insane bulk and Pressure allow it to actually check Donbozo and setup Arceus-Water, something which Ho-Oh and most other defensive walls struggle to do effectively. Paired with Ditto, it can pretty effectively threaten opposing stall teams, especially if they have a hazard setter such as Gliscor.
What makes Giratina different from Giratina-O is that it is much more defensive and needs Heavy-Duty-Boots to work, which I don't feel is that terrible since there are so few Pokemon that actually run Knock Off.
However, Giratina is still weak to a majority of the meta and thus relies on Terastalization quite often.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2402111852?p2 (Ditto + Giratina beat up stall)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-2398828415 (Giratina able to annoy Donbozo, burn Waterceus, burn Primarina, and probably burn Zacian-Crowned if no crit)