Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

[meleeisbetter]

Do your Pokemon have to be legally obtained to be used in streaks, or just legal in terms of it's possible to obtain them? Sometimes I see people be like "I need to change the team to have HP Ice Zapdos instead" and I'm curious if that means they just edit it, or playthrough a game to RNG a different one. Also is resetting flags ok? Like if I edit my save file to put Zapdos back in the FRLG power plant, is that fine to use? Got a GB operator and lot of potential for this, including streaming/recording streaks well on physical hardware without the use of the GameBoy player for GCC.

Also picked up Colosseum recently, any Pokemon worth trying to reroll or RNG other than the dogs?

 

[dgice]

Do your Pokemon have to be legally obtained to be used in streaks, or just legal in terms of it's possible to obtain them? Sometimes I see people be like "I need to change the team to have HP Ice Zapdos instead" and I'm curious if that means they just edit it, or playthrough a game to RNG a different one. Also is resetting flags ok? Like if I edit my save file to put Zapdos back in the FRLG power plant, is that fine to use? Got a GB operator and lot of potential for this, including streaming/recording streaks well on physical hardware without the use of the GameBoy player for GCC.

Also picked up Colosseum recently, any Pokemon worth trying to reroll or RNG other than the dogs?

I really think it's rude to just generate or edit the pokemon and put the onus on someone else to prove they can't be obtained, the surefire way to prove a pokemon can be legally obtained is to legally obtain it.

 

[meleeisbetter]

I really think it's rude to just generate or edit the pokemon and put the onus on someone else to prove they can't be obtained, the surefire way to prove a pokemon can be legally obtained is to legally obtain it.

To be clear, I'm not trying to sneak a fast one by anyone, just genuinely curious about some of the rules. I've only ever used Pokemon that I have personally legitimately obtained, but once I get the Gold Shield I plan on using some bank of hoenn pokemon. Like using the duplication glitch seems to be fair game- so I bred a 5IV Adamant Curse Snorlax with some RNG abuse. Then I clone it and train it with the EV spread I want, then use that version to battle.

Found this line in the first post that seems to answer a lot of my questions:
You are allowed to use genned Pokemon so long as they have legally obtainable stats and moves.

I've had fun doing the frontier with my own Pokemon but now that I'm nearly done I want to use genned mons to see how far I can push certain strategies, and just don't have the time that I used to to obtain each Pokemon manually.

In the list of allowed glitches, rather than performing the glitch, can I just turn the flag on/edit the Pokemon to have a move that I would've used the glitch to get?
If I modified the game with a custom event, then use RNG abuse to catch a version of a Pokemon that would be normally legal, is that allowed?
Is turning on flags for past encounters, like the Regis, allowed? (still RNG'ing each one)
RNG abuse with a button press by hand is allowed, but is setting up a timer to automatically hit the button at the right time to avoid redoing the timing allowed?

Also curious about this line on the first post:

• Reliable information on how the AI plays is most appreciated. If you find any useful information like any new mechanic, any kind of AI behavior, please let us know! Any kind of contribution, no matter how big or small is always helpful.

Since Emerald is decompiled now, would making a tool that would tell you the probably of each choice from the CPU once you know the set considered cheating? Even without a second program, after reading and understanding the code, you could calculate the percent chance of each by hand.

 

[Dave Glorbus]

Also curious about this line on the first post:

• Reliable information on how the AI plays is most appreciated. If you find any useful information like any new mechanic, any kind of AI behavior, please let us know! Any kind of contribution, no matter how big or small is always helpful.

Since Emerald is decompiled now, would making a tool that would tell you the probably of each choice from the CPU once you know the set considered cheating? Even without a second program, after reading and understanding the code, you could calculate the percent chance of each by hand.

https://will-jj.github.io/gen4to3MowAI/

That lays out all the logic in a clear and easy to understand way.

A tool where you put in the game state and it spits out odds is:
A) Very hard to make user friendly, a lot of info goes into these calculations and providing them all accurately will be quite onerous on the user and easy to make mistakes with. Also, it'd be difficult to develop well.
B) Something that various folks, at least in the Factory community, think would be taking the level of tooling available too far and reduce skill expression. Obviously, this is a subjective view that you can take into account as much or as little as you like.

Hope that helps!

 

[Jheisinho]

Hello everyone, before the year ends, I’m here one last time to share a Gen III Tower Doubles streak I streamed back in September.

Team

Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 6 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 9 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Tauros (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 38 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Return
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Swampert (F) @ Aspear Berry
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 90 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 3 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Protect
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]

Articuno @ Cheri Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 6 Atk / 30 SpA
- Protect
- Haze
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

VODs

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIJ1GdqbBWEt2FEYtGIDbdhqSEFQWa1W7&si=NbQuOlJuZ-Homhyb
(I apologize that there is CS gameplay in the VODs, just skip it)

I ended up using the same Articuno team, even though it wasn’t in my original plans. Any information related to this team can be found in this post. However, the only change I made was using HP Flying on Tauros instead of HP Ghost. It looks kind of nonsensical, but the whole idea was that if I was facing Heracross as a lead next to a non-threatening Pokemon that could be ignored, like Shuckle for example, I could take my time, Protect with Latios, and use HP Flying to play around BP or Focus Band, just to try to preserve Latios as much as possible. In practice, I don’t think I got that many opportunities to do it. HP Flying/Ghost is the least used move on Tauros, but after trying both, HP Ghost is not only more useful and makes more sense, but also gets used more often.

I wanted to do a streamed 4-digit streak, preferably using a different team, and for some time I tested different teams without much success. When I eventually got bored, I just focused on getting the streak done with the same Articuno team. It took around 5 or 6 attempts. However, the only team worth mentioning from the ones I used is the following:

Team

Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 6 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 9 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Tauros (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 38 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Return
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Snorlax (F) @ Aspear Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 144 HP / 220 Atk / 136 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake

Gengar (F) @ Cheri Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 20 Def / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk
- Protect
- Haze
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch

My never-ending love-hate relationship with Gengar… What can I say at this point? It’s one of the best Pokemon the player can have on a team to deal with Explosion, and it also has access to Haze. However, it’s very fragile, and there are plenty of Psychic QC mons in the format that OHKO it, which makes it harder to use, but it’s definitely viable. Gengar is a Pokemon I wish could have more than four move slots, since it’s so versatile. Protect and Haze are a must on Gengar for this team, but throughout the runs, I felt like I needed HP Grass—especially for Whiscash, though it would’ve also been nice to have a way to OHKO Rhydon. I just couldn’t drop any of its moves. Gengar can also switch into possible QC Cross Chops or Megahorns that threaten Tauros or Latios if needed.

Snorlax is a very decent backline mon in my opinion. It’s very bulky and offers great offensive pressure, but sadly it’s very slow, and I hate being slower than the OHKO sets in this format. I had used Snorlax in the past, but always with a Latios + Swampert lead. I must admit I never felt comfortable with the idea of using two Normal types on the same team, but to my surprise, it was okay for the most part. I used Ab2658’s Snorlax, but initially moved all the Sp. Def EVs to Attack just to test the core, and then just kept using it. I never bothered to make a better or more optimized EV spread. As for the random Substitute on Snorlax, I wanted a way to play around Counter sets, especially Blissey, and it worked just fine for that purpose at least.

I had used Gengar + Swampert as a backline several times in the past, and I absolutely hated how weak it was to Psychic types, especially Levitate mons like Latios, Latias, or Gardevoir (when traced). Gengar + Snorlax performs much better overall.

I think the Pokemon I feared the most when the team was in a bad spot was Metagross. Whiscash also felt very threatening in some specific scenarios, since I don’t have a way to hit it for a lot of damage with Gengar, and Snorlax never wants to sit in front of it and risk getting hit by Fissure.

My very first streak with this team was 839, which felt very promising. However, it was followed by multiple streaks in the 200s–500s range, so in terms of consistency, it was not an improvement at all. The team is just okay, and that’s about it. I eventually dropped it and started doing attempts with the Articuno team one last time.

 

[RosieVGC]

First time here so hope this is the right place to ask, but I’m currently working on a few teams to try and enter the Doubles leaderboard. I already figured out a rain team (Metagross, Gengar as rain setter since I want to do something that’s not a dancing pineapple, Kingdra, Zapdos) and am working on a Gyarawak build, but there are also two other Pokemon that have been on my mind.

The first one is Jumpluff. It’s seen some action in VGC over the past few years and for a reason: it’s fast, outspeeds basically everything in the sun, has an amazing movepool for a support role and when being able to fully invest in defense has acceptable bulk. You could run Sunny Day, Encore, Sleep Powder and either Protect or Solar Beam. Could it work in BF Doubles and if yes, any ideas on which teammates would make best use of Jumpluff’s assets?

The second one is good old Ninjask. Getting in a total stat boost of +4 in speed, or +2 in attack and speed, over two turns will never not be good. It could also enable Pokemon like Marowak coming in at +4 speed, or ones like Dragonite, who packs a strong Earthquake, wide movepool and has access to Haze and STAB Aerial Ace to deal with setup annoyances. I have two worries though: one, quick claw usage making Ninjask more of a risk to run on the Baton Pass turn. Two, the fact that you’d need to pair him with a Follow Me user, meaning you’re sacrificing half of the team slots on setting up a single sweeper.

Do you think that trade off could work and if yes, who would you see as the best teammates? Both in regards to the sweeper role, as well as the Helping Hand user (could be Togetic for max bulk, Clefable for bulk and utility, or Magmar/Electabuzz for some added offensive value)?

 

[RosieVGC]

Hello everyone, before the year ends, I’m here one last time to share a Gen III Tower Doubles streak I streamed back in September.

Team

Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 6 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 9 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Tauros (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 38 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Return
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Swampert (F) @ Aspear Berry
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 90 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 3 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Protect
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]

Articuno @ Cheri Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 6 Atk / 30 SpA
- Protect
- Haze
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

VODs

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIJ1GdqbBWEt2FEYtGIDbdhqSEFQWa1W7&si=NbQuOlJuZ-Homhyb
(I apologize that there is CS gameplay in the VODs, just skip it)

View attachment 797280

I ended up using the same Articuno team, even though it wasn’t in my original plans. Any information related to this team can be found in this post. However, the only change I made was using HP Flying on Tauros instead of HP Ghost. It looks kind of nonsensical, but the whole idea was that if I was facing Heracross as a lead next to a non-threatening Pokemon that could be ignored, like Shuckle for example, I could take my time, Protect with Latios, and use HP Flying to play around BP or Focus Band, just to try to preserve Latios as much as possible. In practice, I don’t think I got that many opportunities to do it. HP Flying/Ghost is the least used move on Tauros, but after trying both, HP Ghost is not only more useful and makes more sense, but also gets used more often.

I wanted to do a streamed 4-digit streak, preferably using a different team, and for some time I tested different teams without much success. When I eventually got bored, I just focused on getting the streak done with the same Articuno team. It took around 5 or 6 attempts. However, the only team worth mentioning from the ones I used is the following:

Team

Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 6 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 9 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Tauros (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 38 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Return
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Snorlax (F) @ Aspear Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 144 HP / 220 Atk / 136 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake

Gengar (F) @ Cheri Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 20 Def / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk
- Protect
- Haze
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch

My never-ending love-hate relationship with Gengar… What can I say at this point? It’s one of the best Pokemon the player can have on a team to deal with Explosion, and it also has access to Haze. However, it’s very fragile, and there are plenty of Psychic QC mons in the format that OHKO it, which makes it harder to use, but it’s definitely viable. Gengar is a Pokemon I wish could have more than four move slots, since it’s so versatile. Protect and Haze are a must on Gengar for this team, but throughout the runs, I felt like I needed HP Grass—especially for Whiscash, though it would’ve also been nice to have a way to OHKO Rhydon. I just couldn’t drop any of its moves. Gengar can also switch into possible QC Cross Chops or Megahorns that threaten Tauros or Latios if needed.

Snorlax is a very decent backline mon in my opinion. It’s very bulky and offers great offensive pressure, but sadly it’s very slow, and I hate being slower than the OHKO sets in this format. I had used Snorlax in the past, but always with a Latios + Swampert lead. I must admit I never felt comfortable with the idea of using two Normal types on the same team, but to my surprise, it was okay for the most part. I used Ab2658’s Snorlax, but initially moved all the Sp. Def EVs to Attack just to test the core, and then just kept using it. I never bothered to make a better or more optimized EV spread. As for the random Substitute on Snorlax, I wanted a way to play around Counter sets, especially Blissey, and it worked just fine for that purpose at least.

I had used Gengar + Swampert as a backline several times in the past, and I absolutely hated how weak it was to Psychic types, especially Levitate mons like Latios, Latias, or Gardevoir (when traced). Gengar + Snorlax performs much better overall.

I think the Pokemon I feared the most when the team was in a bad spot was Metagross. Whiscash also felt very threatening in some specific scenarios, since I don’t have a way to hit it for a lot of damage with Gengar, and Snorlax never wants to sit in front of it and risk getting hit by Fissure.

My very first streak with this team was 839, which felt very promising. However, it was followed by multiple streaks in the 200s–500s range, so in terms of consistency, it was not an improvement at all. The team is just okay, and that’s about it. I eventually dropped it and started doing attempts with the Articuno team one last time.

Have you tried using Metagross alongside Gengar? I know they were used a lot together in ADV Doubles when Boom wasn’t banned and could see them be able to help each other out quite well. Metagross could use Shadow Ball to deal with Psychic users threatening Gengar, while Gengar in turn could set up Metagross with Swagger. I’m thinking of Lum Metagross using Agility, Gengar using Swagger first turn to get Metagross at +2 speed and maxed out attack, with both being more than strong enough themselves to open in different ways in case the specific matchup makes the setup too risky.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I've been playing quite a bit of Gen III Battle Factory on slow days at work recently and started making notes about the utility of various Pokemon in it. Normally the first few rounds of level 50 were something I'd try and get through as quickly as possible but I've grown a fondness for this particular metagame after spending much time in it, there's a lot more to it than originally apparent and it can be a lot of fun. Seeing as there's not a guide in the vein of Gen IV's Open Level or level 50 Factory guides, I figured I'd take the plunge and write my thoughts in a similar way.

Feel free to comment telling me what you think I got wrong, would actually love input from others as I'm sure there are far more experienced players out there. But please do be polite if you take exception to anything I've written.

Level 50 sets

Grimer 1 Quirky Pecha Berry Sludge Rock Tomb Acid Armor Minimize 170/0/170/0/170/0

I rarely see this but odds are you'll get better options in your draft. The move coverage isn't great but hopefully you'll poison something with Sludge and manage to grab a couple of boosts while your opponent dies

Krabby 1 Hardy Focus Band Crabhammer Mud Shot Flail Knock Off 255/255/0/0/0/0

Not a bad mon per se but there are usually better Water-types to take. Too slow to make use of Flail and that's not worth doing in round 1 anyway.

Exeggcute 1 Naughty Persim Berry Confusion AncientPower Leech Seed Light Screen 255/0/0/255/0/0

Leech Seed is cool but in round 1 you mostly just want to be sweeping. Not a mon I'd typically go with, too slow and has a terrible typing

Eevee 1 Docile Salac Berry Charm Attract Flail Endure 255/0/0/0/0/255

Annoying to face since it can usually survive pretty much any non-Fighting-type hit and if you’re unlucky it’ll Flail after getting the speed boost. Worth keeping a Quick Attack user for, but not worth trading for.

Drowzee 1 Quirky Sitrus Berry Confusion Headbutt Disable Barrier 170/170/0/170/0/0

Not strong enough to justify using, pass

Voltorb 1 Docile Lax Incense Spark Screech Rollout Light Screen 255/0/0/255/0/0

Electric coverage is good in round 1 but there are far better mons to take

Chinchou 1 Hardy Lax Incense Spark Dive Confuse Ray Take Down 0/255/0/255/0/0

Now this is pretty good. Great typing and four useful moves, Dive lets you fish for some extra confusion damage or poison if you manage to find a Toxic user to pair this with

Teddiursa 1 Relaxed Chesto Berry Secret Power Fake Tears Faint Attack Rest 255/255/0/0/0/0

Never really used this because there's usually something better available but on paper it looks pretty great, Secret Power is decent

Delibird 1 Docile NeverMeltIce Present Ice Ball Aerial Ace Hail 255/0/0/255/0/0

Hustle Aerial Ace is pretty grear. Not a bad Ice attacker but that's mostly coverage you don't need at this point

Houndour 1 Docile Charcoal Crunch Ember Roar Protect 255/0/0/255/0/0

One of my favourite leads. Don't even bother with Ember, Crunch does more damage against pretty much everything. Just make sure to have a backup that can deal with bulky Water-types, but the jank round 1 AI means you can often beat them anyway.

Phanpy 1 Naughty Lax Incense Rollout Defense Curl Rock Tomb Sandstorm 255/255/0/0/0/0

You'll struggle to get many kills with this, pass

Spoink 1 Relaxed Sitrus Berry Psywave Bounce Magic Coat Confuse Ray 255/0/0/255/0/0

So bad, Psywave is terrible

Aron 1 Docile Persim Berry Metal Claw Aerial Ace Metal Sound Roar 255/255/0/0/0/0

Metal Sound and Roar on the same set is stupid, but this isn't the worst mon, Steel is a useful type in round 1

Luvdisc 1 Relaxed Quick Claw Sweet Kiss Attract Dive Rain Dance 255/0/0/255/0/0

Not actually as bad as it looks, but still not worth using

Tentacool 1 Hardy Pecha Berry BubbleBeam Acid Barrier Wrap 170/170/0/170/0/0

Decent pick if you badly need a Water-type on your team, Bubblebeam is decently powerful. Don't waste your time using any other move.

Cacnea 1 Quirky Sitrus Berry Needle Arm Faint Attack Cotton Spore Sand-Attack 255/255/0/0/0/0

Good attacker, just wishes it wasn't so miserably slow

Koffing 1 Quirky Poison Barb Sludge SmokeScreen Torment Haze 255/255/0/0/0/0

A moveset designed solely to waste everyone's time

Staryu 1 Quirky Shell Bell BubbleBeam Minimize Swift Light Screen 255/0/0/255/0/0

Still better Water-types to be had out there. Much as with Tentacool, pretend that Bubblebeam is the only move this thing has

Skiploom 1 Docile Persim Berry Mega Drain Confusion Cotton Spore Synthesis 255/0/0/255/0/0

Don't bother

Nuzleaf 1 Hardy Sitrus Berry Extrasensory Fake Out Razor Wind Faint Attack 255/0/0/255/0/0

Used this once or twice and been surprised by how effective it is. Faint Attack/Extrasensory hits just about everything for neutral and Fake Out takes a big chunk out of frailer foes. Not one I'd generally lead with but makes a pretty decent backup.

Lombre 1 Quirky Lax Incense Water Pulse Fake Out Brick Break Absorb 255/255/0/0/0/0

Even with Attack investment Brick Break doesn't hit hard enough. Good pick solely for its unique typing but don't expect to sweep with this.

Vibrava 1 Quirky Cheri Berry DragonBreath Dig Screech Rock Tomb 255/255/0/0/0/0

Now we're talking. Great pick in early rounds since hardly anything hits this for SE damage and the HP investment means you shrug off weaker hits. Almost always trade for this if I see it

Rhyhorn 1 Hardy Focus Band Rock Blast Dig Scary Face Roar 255/255/0/0/0/0

Dies to basically any Water or Grass or Ice attack, but if you can avoid those it's not a total waste of time. Scary Face is occasionally useful.

Clamperl 1 Docile DeepSeaScale Dive Toxic Iron Defense Double Team 170/0/170/0/170/0

Looks great in theory and yet I've never been particularly happy with this, always feel like stuff can kill it too quickly for the Toxicstalling strat to work out. Passable Water attacker if you just spam Dive though.

Pidgeotto 1 Quirky White Herb Aerial Ace Quick Attack FeatherDance Sand-Attack 255/255/0/0/0/0

If nothing else is available this can be a pretty good lead. Can't do anything to the likes of Onix but Featherdance means you can let a teammate switch in a bit more safely than they otherwise would.

Growlithe 1 Docile Rawst Berry Flame Wheel Bite Roar Agility 255/0/0/255/0/0

Kind of like Houndour in reverse. Worth using as a lead if it has Intimidate, you can fish for flinches against slow Ground-types or whatever

Farfetch'd 1 Relaxed Stick Slash Knock Off Swords Dance Agility 170/0/170/0/170/0

Actually a pretty superb lead in round 1. Can pretty much always find time to SD and then start killing stuff.

Omanyte 1 Quirky Sitrus Berry Mud Shot Water Gun AncientPower Tickle 170/170/0/170/0/0

Decent coverage, I like Omanyte but the trouble is there's usually a better Water-type available. Mud Shot gives it a slight niche against Electrics though.

Kabuto 1 Hardy Sitrus Berry Mega Drain AncientPower Sand-Attack Protect 0/255/0/255/0/0

Awful, don't bother with this

Lileep 1 Docile Lax Incense AncientPower Acid Ingrain Confuse Ray 255/255/0/0/0/0

Looks good, plays terribly. Don't be fooled by how bulky Cradily can be, Lileep just does not have the same staying power

Anorith 1 Hardy Scope Lens Metal Claw Fury Cutter AncientPower Water Gun 255/255/0/0/0/0

Under the right conditions this can be fantastic. Unfortunately the right conditions so rarely manifest

Aipom 1 Relaxed Silk Scarf Fury Swipes Sand-Attack Baton Pass Agility 255/255/0/0/0/0

Garbage, avoid

Elekid 1 Naive Cheri Berry ThunderPunch Quick Attack Swift Light Screen 255/0/0/255/0/0

Basically a weaker slower Plusle, but not the worst choice

Loudred 1 Relaxed Focus Band Stomp Howl Astonish Supersonic 255/255/0/0/0/0

Don't imagine you'll sweep with this

Spinda 1 Relaxed Sitrus Berry Dizzy Punch Teeter Dance Psybeam Faint Attack 255/255/0/0/0/0

Usable in round 1 but rapidly outclassed after that

Nidorina 1 Quirky Focus Band Double Kick Bite Aerial Ace Flatter 255/255/0/0/0/0

Not a bad option at all, the coverage means you can actually get stuff done. Also delightful when something hits you and gets poisoned for their trouble. Definitely consider using this if you see it.

Nidorino 1 Quirky Focus Band Double Kick Water Pulse Mud-Slap Flatter 255/255/0/0/0/0

Whereas this is nowhere near as good thanks to its worse moveset, pass

Flaaffy 1 Mild Magnet Shock Wave Thunder Wave Cotton Spore Light Screen 255/0/0/255/0/0

Looks good on paper but unfortunately it breaks the first rule of being an Electric-type so you just know if you pick this you'll meet a Ground-type right away. Worth choosing if your next opponent specialises in Water or Flying but otherwise not so much

Magby 1 Docile Lax Incense Fire Punch SmokeScreen Confuse Ray Smog 255/0/0/255/0/0

Poor choice overall, would not recommend

Nosepass 1 Sassy Hard Stone Rock Slide Shock Wave Thunder Wave Sandstorm 255/0/0/0/255/0

A bit on the mediocre side but could be useful in some situations. It's not as bulky as the SDef investment makes it look though.

Corsola 1 Impish Sitrus Berry BubbleBeam Mirror Coat Attract AncientPower 170/0/170/0/170/0

Really cool mon, can sweep whole teams if you're lucky. Round 1 AI makes Mirror Coat unreliable but you're specially bulky enough for that to not matter too much.

Mawile 1 Docile BrightPowder Crunch Fake Tears Iron Defense Baton Pass 255/0/0/255/0/0

Usable mainly because Steel typing is great in round 1. Crunch is neutral against a ton of stuff so you can very nearly sweep, but you'll need Fake Tears to get through loads of foes

Butterfree 1 Quirky Pecha Berry Silver Wind Psybeam Toxic Whirlwind 255/0/0/255/0/0

A worse version of other fully-evolved Bugs like Dustox and Masquerain. Doesn't have the power to use its moves well, doesn't have the bulk to stall out Toxic damage, and doesn't have the typing to soak up neutral hits. Rarely a good choice in my experience

Beedrill 1 Naughty Scope Lens Twineedle Pursuit Endeavor Agility 0/255/0/0/0/255

Don't bother with this

Poliwhirl 1 Quirky Petaya Berry Water Pulse DoubleSlap Icy Wind Rain Dance 255/0/0/255/0/0

Surprisingly fun mon to use and pretty bulky. I often take this if I need a Water-type, it's a solid pick.

Onix 1 Hardy Sitrus Berry Rock Slide Bind DragonBreath Sandstorm 170/0/170/0/170/0

Good choice for round 1 thanks to all the Bugs. Fishing for random paralysis with Dragonbreath can be fun

Beautifly 1 Docile Mental Herb Silver Wind Mega Drain Attract Whirlwind 255/0/0/0/0/255

Even worse version of Butterfree

Dustox 1 Docile SilverPowder Silver Wind Toxic Psybeam Whirlwind 255/0/0/0/0/255

Fantastic backup mon in round 1, can tank nearly any hit and get a Toxic off. Silver Wind is better than you'd think and Psybeam covers most of the stuff you can't poison.

Ledian 1 Bashful Focus Band Comet Punch Baton Pass Swords Dance Agility 0/255/0/0/0/255

I've never used this because it's just not worth the time, Baton Passing isn't useful in round 1. And it's not like it'll sweep on its own

Ariados 1 Serious Lax Incense Signal Beam Spider Web Night Shade Toxic 255/255/0/0/0/0

Looks great but Signal Beam just doesn't do it against most of the stuff you'll come up against, you're better off going with Night Shade.

Yanma 1 Relaxed Lax Incense Signal Beam Aerial Ace Double Team Detect 0/0/255/0/255/0

Decent enough for round 1, but you'll almost always have something better

Delcatty 1 Lonely Sitrus Berry Secret Power Faint Attack Double Team Heal Bell 255/255/0/0/0/0

Not the worst mon out there, but I can't imagine looking at this and deciding it's what your team needs

Sableye 1 Lonely BlackGlasses Faint Attack Confuse Ray Knock Off Fake Out 255/255/0/0/0/0

Useful mostly due to its fabulous typing giving it the illusion of bulk. Knock Off and Confuse Ray are useful against bulkier enemies, and you can just spam Faint Attack at a lot of stuff

Lickitung 1 Quirky Sitrus Berry Slam Brick Break Lick Mud-Slap 255/255/0/0/0/0

By round 1 standards, a titan of defensive prowess. I like using this because you often get outsped, take a hit, hit back with Slam, paralyse, and attack first the next turn for the KO. Great pick if you're lucky enough to get it early on.

Weepinbell 1 Quiet Scope Lens Razor Leaf Acid Wrap Sweet Scent 255/0/0/255/0/0

Decent enough Grass attacker, though that's all it can really do. Use it if you need an answer to Marshtomp or something.

Graveler 1 Adamant Focus Band Magnitude Rock Throw Defense Curl Brick Break 170/170/0/0/170/0

Solid choice all round, at this level of play Magnitude is generally strong enough to 2HKO even on a low roll. Can beat weaker special attackers like Kadabra.

Gloom 1 Quirky Persim Berry Petal Dance Acid Stun Spore Moonlight 255/0/0/255/0/0

If this could poison foes it'd be a top choice. As it is, Petal Dance is superb but you're stuck against a lot of types

Porygon 1 Relaxed Sitrus Berry Psybeam Icy Wind Recycle Agility 255/0/0/255/0/0

Looks decent but generally underwhelms, could have done with a third coverage move over Agility. Recycle looks attractive but Sitrus Berry doesn't heal enough in Gen 3 so you'll just end up using it over and over.

Kadabra 1 Impish TwistedSpoon Confusion Role Play Future Sight Disable 255/0/255/0/0/0

Still fast and powerful despite the lack of EVs because it's, well, Kadabra. You'll KO loads of stuff but once you run into a Steel or Dark mon you'll struggle. This needed Shock Wave or something to round it out.

Wailmer 1 Docile Lax Incense Whirlpool Roar Defense Curl Rollout 0/0/255/0/255/0

Hella bulky, but kind of a sitting duck since it can only do chip damage. You might get lucky with Rollout though.

Roselia 1 Docile Pecha Berry Magical Leaf Toxic GrassWhistle Cotton Spore 255/0/255/0/0/0

Now this is a good Grass-type. Quite fond of this mon since it can actually do something useful against the Steel-types it can't poison and can survive a couple of turns in case Grasswhistle misses.

Volbeat 1 Quirky Liechi Berry Silver Wind Confuse Ray Quick Attack Helping Hand 0/255/0/0/0/255

I hardly ever see this but the speed investment means that Liechi Berry isn't entirely wasted on it. The main issue is that Silver Wind's PP is too low for you to realistically be able to kill stuff.

Illumise 1 Quirky Liechi Berry Silver Wind Wish Quick Attack Helping Hand 255/255/0/0/0/0

Basically a worse version of the above entry. Wish is cool but not really worth taking this for.

Ivysaur 1 Gentle Persim Berry Petal Dance Growth Sweet Scent Fury Cutter 255/0/0/255/0/0

Looks halfway decent but there's so much stuff this can't do anything against, don't be tempted unless you really need a Grass-type

Charmeleon 1 Naughty Scope Lens Slash Fire Spin Swords Dance Aerial Ace 255/255/0/0/0/0

Often hard to find the time to SD but this is a great attacker nonetheless, Aerial Ace almost makes up for the lack of a decent Fire move.

Wartortle 1 Docile Focus Band Water Pulse Bite Mud-Slap Yawn 255/0/0/255/0/0

One of my favourite picks, Yawn is so good here

Parasect 1 Rash Sitrus Berry Slash Psybeam Stun Spore Flash 0/0/255/0/255/0

Psybeam is helpful against all the Poison-types in the early rounds, but you'll be able to do better than this for sure

Machoke 1 Adamant Focus Band Low Kick Rock Tomb Foresight Scary Face 255/0/0/0/255/0

Not as good as you'd hope, Low Kick doesn't do enough damage against all the lightweights here so it takes multiple turns to kill anything

Haunter 1 Rash Persim Berry Shadow Punch Confuse Ray Spite Grudge 255/255/0/0/0/0

Fun pick because there's lots of stuff which can't touch it. Unfortunately the same problem occurs in reverse, the mono-Ghost moveset means there's lots of stuff you can't do anything to either. Rarely a bad choice overall though, with the right team support it's great.

Bayleef 1 Docile BrightPowder Razor Leaf Toxic Safeguard Light Screen 255/0/0/255/0/0

Virtually never a bad choice, always pick this when I see it. Ridiculously bulky and the SpA investment means it's not totally passive, I like this set a lot.

Quilava 1 Docile Focus Band Flame Wheel Fury Swipes Swift SmokeScreen 255/0/0/255/0/0

Literally only has one good move, but makes a pretty decent lead. Despite the lack of speed investment it's pretty fast. On balance I'd go with Houndour or Growlithe over this given the choice but I've used this as a backup before and not been disappointed.

Croconaw 1 Docile Scope Lens Slash Water Pulse Bite Scary Face 0/255/0/255/0/0

Very reliable attacker, Scope Lens helps to patch up its slightly lacking power. Bulkier than it looks but could really have done with Ice Punch or something, Scary Face does nothing for it

Togetic 1 Relaxed Lax Incense Aerial Ace Magical Leaf Wish Follow Me 255/0/255/0/0/0

Hilarious to play against in singles because it just spams Follow Me over and over. Not that great to use though since it’s just too weak to kill things quickly.

Murkrow 1 Quirky Lax Incense Faint Attack Fly Torment Taunt

Decent option for round 1, Fly takes out a lot of stuff. Torment is irritating to get hit with but useless against round 1 AI.

Wobbuffet 1 Careful Focus Band Counter Mirror Coat Charm Safeguard

Not that threatening, thankfully the randomness of the AI means you can usually just spam your chosen move into it 3 or 4 times until it drops. Since hardly anything can 2HKO this Focus Band rarely means you’ll be taking a full-powered Counter but be aware of it.

Plusle 1 Docile Petaya Berry Spark Fake Tears Quick Attack Helping Hand

Great lead, I like this one a lot. Fake Tears is fantastic but you only really need it to set up a revenge kill, Spark 2HKOs a bunch of stuff and Quick Attack does more damage than I often expect.

Minun 1 Docile Salac Berry Spark Charm Encore Helping Hand

Also quite good, though only as a backup. Salac Berry doesn’t do much for it since it’s already decently fast.

Grovyle 1 Relaxed BrightPowder Fury Cutter Endeavor Brick Break Double Team 255/255/0/0/0/0

No STAB and no priority makes this a fairly terrible choice. Avoid.

Combusken 1 Docile Scope Lens Ember Double Kick Quick Attack Sand-Attack 0/255/0/255/0/0

Probably the best Fire overall. Great choice for a lead, Quick Attack will come in handy

Marshtomp 1 Hardy Focus Band Mud Shot Water Gun Rock Tomb Mud-Slap 0/255/0/255/0/0

Quite possibly the best Water-type, superb choice and nearly always worth taking. Mud Shot is too good.

Ponyta 1 Hardy Rawst Berry Fire Spin Bounce Quick Attack Tail Whip 255/255/0/0/0/0

Bounce is surprisingly powerful, but it's almost embarrassing for a Fire-type to need to find new ways of hitting Grass- and Bug-types super-effectively

Azumarill 1 Docile Sitrus Berry BubbleBeam Facade Dig Protect 0/0/255/0/255/0

You obviously want Huge Power on this, but it's not completely terrible with Thick Fat either. Incredibly tanky either way, outlasts loads of stuff.

Sudowoodo 1 Hardy Hard Stone Rock Slide Faint Attack Sandstorm Block 255/0/0/0/255/0

Good pick for the early rounds, Rock Slide hits for decent damage even when it's resisted. All the other moves are pointless though.

Magcargo 1 Gentle Lax Incense Rock Slide Ember Acid Armor Sandstorm 255/0/0/0/255/0

Refer to Sudowoodo's entry. Somewhat less useful though due to having one of the worst possible typings and being slower than molasses.

Pupitar 1 Hardy Soft Sand Dig Bite Scary Face Sandstorm 255/0/0/0/0/255

Looks good but just doesn't hit hard enough; useful typing but really could have done with a Rock move.

Sealeo 1 Quirky Persim Berry Ice Ball Hail Snore Rest 170/0/170/0/170/0

I used to think this would be good because of its bulk but it just isn't, you're outsped by everything and using Ice Ball prevents you from being able to heal. Not worth it overall.

Raticate 1 Naive Silk Scarf Endeavor Pursuit Scary Face Quick Attack 170/170/0/0/0/170

Not bad. Random AI means you'll often be able to use Endeavour+Quick Attack without getting killed, but it's outclassed by numerous other Normal-types.

Masquerain 1 Relaxed Cheri Berry Silver Wind Aerial Ace Icy Wind Stun Spore 0/255/255/0/0/0

Getting this in your initial draft in round 1 is your key to a swift 7 wins. Very, very good lead sweeper since Icy Wind takes care of Flying-types and stuff like Rhyhorn. Good held item, good ability, good stats, I love this mon.

Furret 1 Serious Liechi Berry Slam Protect Helping Hand Follow Me 0/0/255/0/255/0

Tedious to kill since it just spams Protect incessantly. Isn't even that bad of an attacker and makes good use of its held item but its versatility is wasted on a mono-Normal set.

Dunsparce 1 Docile Lax Incense Headbutt Glare Defense Curl Rollout 255/255/0/0/0/0

I don't think I've ever used this but I'm not opposed to it, could do worse.

Dragonair 1 Docile Cheri Berry DragonBreath Leer Wrap Safeguard 255/0/0/0/255/0

Ah, Dragonair, the mon I want to like. Whenever I've used this I always feel like it underperforms, Dragonbreath is too weak and Leer doesn't help it. Best-case scenario is you paralyse something and they stay incapacitated for long enough to be chipped down.

Mightyena 1 Timid Mental Herb Bite Poison Fang Taunt Roar 0/255/0/255/0/0

I've picked this as a lead a couple of times mainly for Intimidate. It's serviceable but the coverage is lacking, you'll be lucky to get more than one kill.

Linoone 1 Adamant White Herb Secret Power Sand-Attack Covet Tickle 255/255/0/0/0/0

It's a no from me

Castform 1 Hasty Petaya Berry Ember Water Pulse Shock Wave Icy Wind 255/0/0/255/0/0

Fantastic coverage and held item but all of its moves are too weak

Shelgon 1 Hardy Cheri Berry Headbutt DragonBreath Protect Scary Face 170/170/0/0/170/0

A better version of Dragonair because it can kill stuff more quickly. Decent choice but not top-tier.

Metang 1 Hardy Focus Band Metal Claw Confusion Pursuit Scary Face 0/255/0/0/255/0

Great typing but it just doesn't hit hard enough, has most value in being a wall against weaker stuff.

Wigglytuff 1 Relaxed Silk Scarf Sing Disable Wish Secret Power 0/0/255/0/255/0

Can't recall having ever used this. It's bulky but I can't see it actually accomplishing very much

Sunflora 1 Quirky Persim Berry Petal Dance Ingrain Leech Seed Light Screen 255/0/255/0/0/0

Surprisingly good pick for a Grass-type because it has an answer to stuff it can't KO and can support teammates. It's terribly slow though

Chimecho 1 Sassy TwistedSpoon Psywave Take Down Heal Bell Safeguard 255/0/0/255/0/0

Pointlessly has SpA investment but it can make a good stopgap team member thanks to its bulk, I've subbed this in once or twice when I needed a Psychic-type or a Ground immunity and it does quite well. Otherwise it's inferior to basically all other Psychics

Gligar 1 Hasty Scope Lens Metal Claw Dig Aerial Ace Quick Attack 255/0/0/0/255/0

Has what looks like great coverage but hits like a wet dish towel, avoid using this

Qwilfish 1 Impish Cheri Berry BubbleBeam Pin Missile Spikes Minimize 0/0/0/255/255/0

Another Water-type which may as well only have Bubblebeam in its moveset. SpDef investment does not do anything for this

Sneasel 1 Relaxed Persim Berry Faint Attack Fake Out Icy Wind Quick Attack 170/0/170/0/170/0

Awful mon overall and outclassed by numerous other options

Pelipper 1 Quiet Sitrus Berry Water Pulse Aerial Ace Stockpile Swallow 255/0/0/0/255/0

Decent thanks to good coverage and good bulk, Stockpile/Swallow is a pain to set up but you can usually find the time to do so. Aerial Ace makes this a good option against Grass-types

Swellow 1 Adamant King's Rock Fly Endeavor Facade Quick Attack 255/0/0/0/255/0

Doesn't hit as hard as it should, but a good lead nonetheless. King's Rock compensates for the lack of power by triggering whenever you least expect it to

Lairon 1 Sassy Metal Coat Metal Claw Rock Tomb Iron Defense Protect 255/0/0/0/255/0

Pretty great choice as long as you keep it away from Ground, Fighting, and Water moves

Tangela 1 Hardy Lax Incense Mega Drain Slam Toxic Bind 255/0/0/0/255/0

Toxic is appreciated, but Mega Drain is just too weak. All the SpDef investment doesn't help, it still gets 2HKO'd by every Ice and Fire move going.

Arbok 1 Adamant Persim Berry Poison Fang Dig Bite Glare 255/255/0/0/0/0

Intimidate improves this greatly and makes it a viable lead. By contrast, Shed Skin greatly diminishes Arbok's appeal

Persian 1 Quirky Silk Scarf Fake Out Slash Torment Swagger 170/0/170/0/170/0

Pathetically feeble, enjoy not being guaranteed to OHKO Sharpedo with a critical hit

Seadra 1 Sassy Mystic Water Aurora Beam SmokeScreen Water Gun Rain Dance 255/0/0/255/0/0

Too frail to sweep consistently. Poison Point is fun, though.

Kecleon 1 Naive Focus Band Secret Power Psybeam Magic Coat Seismic Toss 170/170/170/0/0/0

An inconsistent sort of mon by design, but usually capable of getting at least one kill. You're best off just spamming Seismic Toss on most stuff

Vigoroth 1 Lonely Focus Band Slash Counter Encore Uproar 255/255/0/0/0/0

Great sweeper, but predictably useless against Ghosts/Rocks/Steels

Lunatone 1 Quiet Sitrus Berry Confusion Cosmic Power Light Screen Sandstorm 255/0/255/0/0/0

Great team supporter with Light Screen/Sandstorm, but not generally worth setting up Cosmic Power since it's too weak to sweep on its own

Solrock 1 Quiet Sitrus Berry Confusion Fire Spin Light Screen Sandstorm 255/0/0/0/255/0

Slightly worse version of Lunatone

Noctowl 1 Relaxed Persim Berry Confusion Aerial Ace Faint Attack Reflect 255/0/255/0/0/0

Great mon, especially if you're lucky enough to get it in round 1. So, so bulky, and actually capable of killing loads of stuff with Aerial Ace. Very often worth taking if you see it.

Sandslash 1 Adamant Sitrus Berry Crush Claw Rock Slide Swift Sandstorm 255/0/0/0/255/0

Underwhelming, don't waste your time on this

Venomoth 1 Quirky Persim Berry Silver Wind Psybeam Sleep Powder Skill Swap 255/0/0/0/0/255

Has a slight niche over other Silver Wind users in that you can potentially put something to sleep and just spam Silver Wind in hopes of getting the omniboost. Generally not worth it though unless you need the coverage it offers.

Chansey 1 Relaxed Sitrus Berry Metronome Refresh Defense Curl Minimize 0/0/255/0/255/0

Frequently infuriating to play against since it'll inevitably manage to get in at least one evasion boost and just waste your time for the next 20 turns. Sadly not even worth using since even if you get to +6/+6 Metronome will inevitably screw you over when it selects Memento or something.

Seaking 1 Docile Sitrus Berry Water Pulse Psybeam Swift Agility 255/0/0/0/255/0

Kind of your bread-and-butter Water type, Psybeam allows it to hit Poison-types but it's mostly inferior to having an Ice move. Unless you've no other options I'd typically pass on this

Jumpluff 1 Docile Lax Incense Aerial Ace Swagger Psych Up Synthesis 255/0/0/0/0/255

Awful, awful set, just awful

Piloswine 1 Quirky Soft Sand Dig AncientPower Hail Light Screen 255/255/0/0/0/0

Relatively decent, worth using if you need a physical attacker or Ground/Rock coverage. Just be wary of Ancientpower's limited PP

Golbat 1 Relaxed Scope Lens Air Cutter Confuse Ray Toxic Steel Wing 255/255/0/0/0/0

Never really used this but I'm not opposed to it, Scope Lens Air Cutter is mighty appealing and it's a relatively fast Toxic user

Primeape 1 Quirky Scope Lens Karate Chop Counter Swagger Screech 170/0/170/0/170/0

Mono-Fighting attacker, pass

Hitmonlee 1 Adamant Black Belt Rolling Kick Brick Break Focus Energy Facade 255/0/255/0/0/0

No Attack investment and still can't touch Ghosts, pass

Hitmonchan 1 Adamant King's Rock Mach Punch Sky Uppercut Detect Counter 255/0/255/0/0/0

And once again

Girafarig 1 Quiet Petaya Berry Psybeam Stomp Wish Skill Swap 255/0/0/255/0/0

I'm never sure if Girafarig's any good or if it's just that I really want it to be so. Psybeam can 2HKO a good amount of stuff, but you're too slow for Stomp to reliably get flinches and for the Petaya to be effective

Hitmontop 1 Hardy Liechi Berry Triple Kick Dig Mach Punch Quick Attack 255/255/0/0/0/0

Intimidate and Liechi with priority moves make this a decent lead, I'm often inclined to pick this if I see it

Banette 1 Sassy Rawst Berry Night Shade Will-O-Wisp Spite Knock Off 170/0/170/0/170/0

Good disruptor, useful you need to set up a teammate or put a timer on a problematic foe. I've used this a few times and liked it

Ninjask 1 Mild Petaya Berry Baton Pass Swords Dance Endure Dig 170/0/170/0/170/0

The bulk on this set really helps, I almost always take it when it shows up. There's a bunch of slow and/or slightly underpowered attackers in round 2 and 3 and it's so easy to grab a couple of boosts with Ninjask and set up a cheap easy win.

Seviper 1 Hardy Scope Lens Poison Tail Bite Glare Screech 255/255/0/0/0/0

Not the best, poor coverage and weak to too many things.

Zangoose 1 Hardy Persim Berry Slash Double Kick Roar Quick Attack 255/255/0/0/0/0

One of the aforementioned slow and underpowered attackers. Just about gets by on its own, it's still fast enough to cope and Quick Attack helps pick off weakened foes. Zangoose is too good overall to really screw up but they certainly tried.

Camerupt 1 Quirky Focus Band Magnitude Protect Sandstorm Rock Slide 255/255/0/0/0/0

Not terrible but not one I'd take by choice, it's too slow and needs a better moveset than this.

Sharpedo 1 Adamant Scope Lens Slash Bite Water Pulse Scary Face 0/255/0/0/255/0

Only useful as a revenge killer, it's too weak to sweep and dies to basically any move

Tropius 1 Hardy Sitrus Berry Magical Leaf Whirlwind Aerial Ace Steel Wing 255/255/0/0/0/0

I always seem to run into this at the worst moment. Good coverage but I can't imagine using it unless I had Ninjask support or something

Magneton 1 Lonely Cheri Berry Shock Wave SonicBoom Thunder Wave Supersonic 0/0/0/255/0/255

On a couple of occasions I've traded for this when my next opponent specialised in Water. On neither of those occasions was that the correct choice, Shock Wave is too weak and Magneton is much too specially frail

Mantine 1 Docile Mystic Water BubbleBeam Aerial Ace Rain Dance Icy Wind 255/0/0/0/255/0

Surprisingly solid mon. Obviously can't take an Electric hit, but soaks up neutral special attacks and in rainy weather becomes an absolute nuke

Stantler 1 Gentle TwistedSpoon Extrasensory Confuse Ray Stomp Sand-Attack 255/0/0/255/0/0

Ah, Stantler, why can't you be better? No Attack investment means Stomp doesn't do nearly as much damage as it should and somehow neither does Extrasensory. Underwhelming in the extreme.

Absol 1 Adamant BrightPowder Bite Razor Wind Future Sight Quick Attack 255/255/0/0/0/0

Poor choice, you'll take ages to kill anything with this. Avoid.

Swalot 1 Quirky Lax Incense Stockpile Swallow Spit Up Sludge 0/0/255/0/255/0

No

Crawdaunt 1 Adamant Persim Berry BubbleBeam ViceGrip Knock Off Protect 170/0/170/0/170/0

There are better Water-types, there are better Dark-types, there are better Knock Off users. Hell, there are better ViceGrip users.

Pidgeot 1 Hardy Sharp Beak Aerial Ace FeatherDance Mud-Slap Faint Attack 255/255/0/0/0/0

This looks very good on paper. Unfortunately that's about where it ends. Aerial Ace feels surprisingly underpowered and once you meet anything that resists it you're basically stuck; Faint Attack does not hit hard enough. Supremely disappointing mon.

Grumpig 1 Relaxed Petaya Berry Psybeam Confuse Ray Future Sight Magic Coat 255/0/0/255/0/0

This is just an evolved version of that Spoink set, and it's still shit

Torkoal 1 Relaxed Sitrus Berry Ember Fire Spin SmokeScreen Amnesia 255/0/0/0/255/0

Nice idea in theory but this doesn't work, you'll set up with Amnesia and painstakingly chip your foe down with Fire Spin only to be met with something that knows Earthquake

Kingler 1 Hardy Scope Lens Crabhammer Metal Claw Mud Shot Protect 255/0/0/0/255/0

Way better than it looks, Mud Shot is such a fink move

Cacturne 1 Hasty Scope Lens Needle Arm Faint Attack Acid Mega Punch 255/0/0/0/0/255

The coverage looks great but the lack of offensive investment means it hits less hard than you expect. Fine if you need a Grass-type I guess

Bellossom 1 Quiet Persim Berry Petal Dance Safeguard Sunny Day Synthesis 255/0/0/255/0/0

Mono-Grass moveset with no poison/sleep move? Hard pass

Octillery 1 Hardy Shell Bell Octazooka Aurora Beam Psybeam Rock Blast 0/255/0/255/0/0

Oh my god, a fully offensive moveset that's actually good, I was starting to think that was a myth

Huntail 1 Quiet Persim Berry Whirlpool Scary Face Mud-Slap Bite 255/255/0/0/0/0

Pretty cool, Huntail's decent bulk means that this is actually kind of viable. I'm not sure when I'd take this but I like it in theory

Gorebyss 1 Brave Persim Berry Whirlpool Amnesia Icy Wind Confusion 255/0/0/255/0/0

Amnesia with no recovery and piss-weak moves? Not great.

Relicanth 1 Sassy Liechi Berry AncientPower Water Pulse Harden Amnesia 170/0/0/170/170/0

Kind of cool how it can boost all of its stats. Too bad about, well, its actual stats.

Omastar 1 Quirky Shell Bell BubbleBeam Spike Cannon Tickle AncientPower 255/0/0/255/0/0

Too slow to be very effective. Pass.

Kabutops 1 Adamant Scope Lens Slash Dig Fury Cutter Knock Off 255/255/0/0/0/0

What a godawful moveset

Poliwrath 1 Adamant Black Belt Submission Dig Rock Tomb BubbleBeam 255/255/0/0/0/0

I quite like this as I used it in combination with Ninjask to beat Noland, but it's hard to use effectively. Submission breaks things but Dig and Rock Tomb are just too weak

Scyther 1 Relaxed Liechi Berry Fury Cutter Aerial Ace Light Screen Double Team 255/255/0/0/0/0

Relaxed nature? Eurgh

Pinsir 1 Naughty Black Belt Submission Focus Energy Swords Dance Revenge 255/255/0/0/0/0

One SD is enough for Submission to wreck things, but this dies to the first Flying-type it meets

Politoed 1 Relaxed Shell Bell Dive Dig Hypnosis Swagger 0/0/255/0/255/0

This is one of those sets that's either terrible or brilliant with no middle ground. Against some stuff it's utterly dominating, against others it's worse than useless. Use at your own risk.

Cloyster 1 Sassy NeverMeltIce Aurora Beam Spike Cannon Supersonic Protect 255/0/0/0/255/0

Just not very good at all, avoid

Delcatty 2 Modest Quick Claw Fake Tears Sing Thunderbolt Ice Beam 0/0/0/255/0/255

This could be great, but - again - I cannot imagine a circumstance where this is your best option

Sableye 2 Quirky Lum Berry Shadow Ball Faint Attack Confuse Ray Recover 170/170/0/170/0/0

Still quite decent, Recover lets you outlast some stuff

Lickitung 2 Adamant Cheri Berry Earthquake Body Slam Shadow Ball Rock Slide 0/170/170/0/170/0

Finally some good moves. Solid pick most of the time, just watch out for Fighting-types.

Weepinbell 2 Quirky Scope Lens Sludge Bomb Razor Leaf Sleep Powder Reflect 0/0/255/0/255/0

Not the best but Sleep Powder can be a crutch move

Graveler 2 Adamant Focus Band Earthquake Rock Slide Brick Break Counter 255/0/0/0/255/0

Take your life into your own hands and bet everything on Focus Band Counter, I dare you

Gloom 2 Quirky Pecha Berry SolarBeam Sunny Day Sludge Bomb Moonlight 0/255/0/255/0/0

Decent, I've used this on a couple of occasions and done quite well with it

Porygon 2 Quiet Cheri Berry Tri Attack Psychic Thunder Wave Recover 0/255/0/255/0/0

Wonderful if you can copy a good ability with Trace, but at this point too much stuff outclasses it

Kadabra 2 Modest TwistedSpoon Psychic Thunder Wave Reflect Recover 255/0/255/0/0/0

Like this, for instance. As long as you've got an answer for Darks and Steels you will not regret choosing Kadabra 2

Wailmer 2 Docile Chesto Berry Water Spout Earthquake Body Slam Rest 0/0/255/0/255/0

Water Spout when you're slow as balls is very stupid

Roselia 2 Docile Quick Claw Giga Drain Sludge Bomb GrassWhistle Synthesis 255/0/255/0/0/0

Not actually as good as the previous set due to Giga Drain's lower PP and the loss of Toxic. Like a lot of similar mons, it's fine if you badly want a Grass-type far from a must-have

Volbeat 2 Quirky Petaya Berry Signal Beam Thunderbolt Ice Punch Tail Glow 0/0/0/255/0/255

...sure, if you're desperate

Illumise 2 Quirky Petaya Berry Silver Wind Thunderbolt Ice Punch Giga Drain 0/0/0/255/0/255

Impressively, worse in basically every way.

Ivysaur 2 Quirky BrightPowder Giga Drain Sludge Bomb Sleep Powder Leech Seed 0/255/0/255/0/0

Used this a few times and it's never let me down. Would have been so much better with bulk investment, but Brightpowder lets you cheese a couple of extra turns. Great mon for trapping slow passive foes

Charmeleon 2 Hardy Scope Lens Flamethrower Slash AncientPower Dragon Rage 0/255/0/0/0/255

Miles better than the other set, even without SpA EVs Blaze Flamethrower is fantastic

Wartortle 2 Docile Shell Bell Surf Ice Beam Rapid Spin Protect 255/0/0/255/0/0

Good attacker, but misses Yawn

Parasect 2 Calm Leftovers Spore Giga Drain Dig Double Team 170/0/170/0/170/0

If you can find something to set up on, this is fantastic - unfortunately anything with Aerial Ace will unravel all your hard work

Machoke 2 Adamant Scope Lens Cross Chop Rock Slide Foresight Scary Face 255/255/0/0/0/0

Scope Lens Cross Chop is utterly delightful. I've 3-0'd several teams with this

Haunter 2 Relaxed Lum Berry Psychic Hypnosis Nightmare Confuse Ray 170/0/170/0/170/0

Nightmare is fun but nothing ever seems to stay asleep long enough for it to be worth it.

Bayleef 2 Docile Chesto Berry Giga Drain Body Slam GrassWhistle Rest 170/0/170/0/170/0

Less effective overall than its previous set

Quilava 2 Docile BrightPowder Flamethrower Crush Claw Body Slam SmokeScreen 0/255/0/255/0/0

Basically a stronger version of the other set. Cheesing misses with Smokescreen and Brightpowder is pointless when you've no reason to stall, though

Croconaw 2 Adamant Focus Band Mega Kick Aerial Ace Rock Slide Dig 255/255/0/0/0/0

It'll do if there's nothing else available, but no STAB is stinky

Togetic 2 Relaxed Scope Lens Return Sweet Kiss Aerial Ace Yawn 255/0/255/0/0/0

Terrible set on its own merits, but Sweet Kiss and Yawn can give a teammate an opening to boost

Murkrow 2 Quirky BrightPowder Perish Song Mean Look Double Team Thunder Wave 170/0/170/0/170/0

Can be a fun way to ensure a kill. Just be careful that it never ends up as your last mon

Wobbuffet 2 Careful Focus Band Counter Mirror Coat Encore Destiny Bond 0/0/255/0/255/0

More useful than the previous set, especially with Destiny Bond. Can be great against Noland.

Plusle 2 Docile Petaya Berry Thunderbolt Thunder Wave Seismic Toss Wish 0/0/0/255/0/255

Doesn't have the coverage to be a lead, but makes a great revenge killer

Minun 2 Docile Salac Berry Thunderbolt Attract Charm Wish 0/0/0/255/0/255

Too fast to really need the Salac and too situational to be an effective supporter, probably better in Doubles

Grovyle 2 Docile Lum Berry Giga Drain Crush Claw Screech Rock Tomb 0/255/0/0/0/255

Screech makes this an interesting pick. Probably better options overall though

Combusken 2 Docile Scope Lens Flamethrower Sky Uppercut Slash Sand-Attack 0/170/0/170/0/170

Not bad, I don't ever seem to get this mon but I can't imagine it being a poor choice

Marshtomp 2 Docile Focus Band Muddy Water Earthquake Mud-Slap Protect 0/255/0/255/0/0

Muddy Water sucks, but who cares, you have Earthquake now

Ponyta 2 Quirky Sitrus Berry Flamethrower Body Slam Double Kick Double Team 0/0/0/255/0/255

Largely inferior to Combusken, but if you need a Fire-type this'll do I suppose

Azumarill 2 Adamant Shell Bell Mega Kick Brick Break Iron Tail Dig 255/0/0/0/255/0

Spectacular with Huge Power

Sudowoodo 2 Hardy Focus Band Mega Kick Earthquake Low Kick Selfdestruct 255/0/0/0/255/0

One of the only exploders here. Definitely worth consideration, the bulk means it can usually survive long enough to take out one mon and then blow up on another

Magcargo 2 Quiet Quick Claw Overheat Earthquake Rock Slide Body Slam 255/0/0/0/255/0

No offensive investment sucks, most Water moves still OHKO

Pupitar 2 Hardy Scope Lens Earthquake Rock Slide Crunch Scary Face 255/255/0/0/0/0

Good choice if you can get it, finally powerful enough to actually kill things

Sealeo 2 Quiet Sitrus Berry Ice Beam Surf Body Slam Hail 255/0/0/255/0/0

Good pick if you need a Water-type, probably the best Ice Beam user overall

Raticate 2 Adamant Focus Band Super Fang Hyper Fang Shadow Ball Scary Face 0/255/0/0/0/255

Not a great attacker, but Super Fang is a cheap and dirty way to break down bulkier foes

Masquerain 2 Quiet Lax Incense Hydro Pump Ice Beam Giga Drain Stun Spore 0/0/255/255/0/0

Oh man, now we're talking. Intimidate and full defence investment make this very physically resilient, and you can kill tons of stuff with these moves. Seriously good lead attacker.

Furret 2 Adamant Choice Band Trick Frustration Shadow Ball Follow Me 0/255/0/0/0/255

One of the few Choice Band mons here. Banded Frustration is superb, it's almost a waste to Trick it away.

Dunsparce 2 Quiet Lax Incense Ice Beam Rock Tomb Bite Shadow Ball 0/0/255/0/255/0

Fun set because of all the potential Serene Grace abuse, but there are better options available

Dragonair 2 Adamant Chesto Berry Return Rest Thunder Wave Dragon Dance 255/0/0/0/255/0

Still not a good choice, takes way too many turns to set up

Mightyena 2 Quirky King's Rock Crunch Shadow Ball Frustration Scary Face 0/0/255/255/0/0

Looks underwhelming but performs decently, great option against Ghosts and Psychics

Linoone 2 Jolly Choice Band Trick Frustration Thunder Wave Sand-Attack 0/255/0/0/0/255

Basically Furret 2 but weaker. You're better served Tricking your band away and crippling the foe.

Castform 2 Modest Lax Incense Thunderbolt Flamethrower Ice Beam Water Pulse 255/0/0/255/0/0

Good little mon thanks to its incredible versatility. If you can find a weather user to pair this with you'll be laughing

Shelgon 2 Hardy Focus Band Frustration Dragon Dance Crunch Scary Face 255/0/0/0/255/0

Needs a few boosts to really get going but if you can get them it's a surprisingly good sweeper.

Metang 2 Quirky Focus Band Meteor Mash Psychic Body Slam Scary Face 255/0/0/255/0/0

Not a bad mon overall. Can be a good choice if your team needs some additional bulk, but don't expect miracles

Wigglytuff 2 Docile Sitrus Berry Fake Tears Sing Dream Eater Brick Break 0/0/255/0/255/0

Takes too much time to do anything, skip it

Sunflora 2 Quiet Leftovers Giga Drain GrassWhistle Growth Double Team 255/0/255/0/0/0

If you can find something to set up on, this might be good. The issue is that once you run out of Giga Drain PP you're literally useless

Chimecho 2 Quiet TwistedSpoon Psychic Hypnosis Dream Eater Heal Bell 170/0/170/0/170/0

Quite a solid little mon. Bulky enough to afford a couple of Hypnosis misses and can keep itself healthy. Too bad it doesn't have an extra coverage move, though

Gligar 2 Adamant Quick Claw Earthquake Aerial Ace Guillotine Screech 255/0/0/0/255/0

Occasionally hideous in the hands of the AI, frequently disappointing in the hands of you the player

Qwilfish 2 Adamant Focus Band Revenge Sludge Bomb Shadow Ball Destiny Bond 255/0/0/0/255/0

Still hits surprisingly hard even without Attack investment, and has the speed and the bulk to make DBing practical. Not a bad choice at all, especially for Noland

Sneasel 2 Jolly King's Rock Crush Claw Brick Break Aerial Ace Screech 170/0/170/0/0/170

Screech is great but it still struggles to get OHKOs even after the Defence drop. Why does this have Defence EVs?

Pelipper 2 Quiet Shell Bell Surf Blizzard Aerial Ace Protect 255/0/0/0/255/0

You're too slow to sweep, but man does this thing take hits

Swellow 2 Adamant King's Rock Facade Aerial Ace Pursuit Double Team 255/0/0/0/255/0

Why do so many sets in the Factory have max HP/SpDef investment

Lairon 2 Sassy Sitrus Berry Earthquake Iron Tail Roar Protect 255/0/0/0/255/0

Too slow and has too many common weaknesses, you can do better

Tangela 2 Calm Chesto Berry Giga Drain Stun Spore Rest Amnesia 255/0/0/0/255/0

If this had Toxic it'd be really cool, but it doesn't, so

Arbok 2 Adamant Lum Berry Sludge Bomb Earthquake Iron Tail Glare 255/0/255/0/0/0

This is cool, I like it a lot as a lead because it's still fast and hits quite hard

Persian 2 Quirky Silk Scarf Frustration Shadow Ball Roar Fake Out 170/0/170/0/170/0

Looks like it should play well but it's yet another underwhelming mon with no offensive or speed investment so it doesn't

Seadra 2 Docile Shell Bell Hydro Pump Frustration DragonBreath Dragon Dance 255/0/0/0/255/0

Rarely worth the time required to boost up to the point where Frustration can actually kill stuff, but just barely passable if you need a strong Water move

Kecleon 2 Docile Choice Band Trick Brick Break Shadow Ball Skill Swap 255/0/255/0/0/0

Not a particularly good mon because it's too slow, and doesn't hit hard enough to effectively use its Band

Vigoroth 2 Adamant Salac Berry Crush Claw Reversal Endure Shadow Ball 0/255/0/0/255/0

A potentially deadly weapon, Reversal will tear through stuff. The only issue is that when you're not up against something Reversal can OHKO, Crush Claw and Shadow Ball often fall short of an OHKO so this needs heavy support

Lunatone 2 Quiet Lax Incense Psychic Ice Beam Cosmic Power Calm Mind 255/0/255/0/0/0

A lot of fun to use if you can set it up, Ice Beam lets you muscle past all the stuff Psychic doesn't touch. It's hard to find stuff to set up on though and the lack of recovery stings

Solrock 2 Hardy White Herb Earthquake Rock Slide Cosmic Power Overheat 255/0/0/0/255/0

Hits a bunch of stuff for SE but rarely OHKOs, but thankfully you can stick around for the 2HKO thanks to the bulk. Not a superb choice but a decent stopgap option

Noctowl 2 Quiet Persim Berry Psychic Faint Attack Aerial Ace Reflect 0/0/255/255/0/0

Really good backup choice, just shrugs off so many attacks and can actually deal some damage in return

Sandslash 2 Adamant Quick Claw Earthquake Rock Slide Crush Claw Sandstorm 255/0/0/0/255/0

Looks competent but will inevitably underwhelm because it doesn't hit hard enough

Venomoth 2 Docile Lum Berry Signal Beam Psychic Sludge Bomb Giga Drain 255/0/0/0/0/255

This could have been great but unfortunately it just doesn't hit for nearly enough damage. If you're lucky and get the omniboost you might sweep but unfortunately it's more likely you get killed first. Sorry Venomoth, they fumbled you

Chansey 2 Relaxed Leftovers Seismic Toss Shadow Ball Double Team Softboiled 0/0/255/0/255/0

Shadow Ball is a stupid idea, but this is great. Basically an auto-win against most Special attackers, you know what to do

Seaking 2 Impish Quick Claw Horn Drill Megahorn Sleep Talk Rest 170/0/170/0/170/0

Awful to play against, and you're awful if you choose it

Jumpluff 2 Bold Leftovers Leech Seed Sleep Powder Giga Drain Double Team 0/0/255/0/255/0

Oh man, I love this mon. You're still blazing fast so you almost always get the Sleep Powder off successfully, and then it's child's play to set up seeds and start boosting. Absolutely phenomenal staller, one time I got this at the start of round 3 and it was the easiest 7 wins of my life

Piloswine 2 Adamant Shell Bell Earthquake Rock Slide Body Slam Roar 0/0/255/0/255/0

Not a terrible option if you want something that can use Earthquake, but it's hard to use consistently because it's vulnerable to so much stuff

Golbat 2 Adamant Scope Lens Sludge Bomb Shadow Ball Confuse Ray Air Cutter 255/255/0/0/0/0

Looks good in theory but just doesn't work. Anything you want to Shadow Ball will Psychic you to death first

Primeape 2 Quirky Scope Lens Cross Chop Rock Tomb Overheat Bulk Up 170/0/170/0/170/0

If you can get the boosts this isn't bad, but there are better Fighting-types

Hitmonlee 2 Adamant Lax Incense Mega Kick Brick Break Foresight Rock Tomb 255/0/255/0/0/0

Overall, a poor choice

Hitmonchan 2 Adamant King's Rock DynamicPunch Mach Punch Detect Counter 255/0/255/0/0/0

Actually, maybe there aren't

Girafarig 2 Modest Lum Berry Psychic Crunch Baton Pass Agility 0/0/255/0/255/0

Rarely worth passing speed to anything, but this is a decent Psychic attacker. Crunch hits harder than you'd expect too, but this so needed Calm Mind

Hitmontop 2 Adamant Focus Band Double-Edge Seismic Toss Rock Slide Counter 255/0/255/0/0/0

Actually pretty usable despite the lack of STAB, it's got a lot of staying power. There are certainly worse leads

Banette 2 Adamant Lax Incense Shadow Ball Frustration Screech Will-O-Wisp 0/0/255/0/255/0

Decent because a lot of stuff can't hit this for SE damage and Will-o-Wisp is a useful insurance policy against tanks. Needed a better item though

Ninjask 2 Quirky Focus Band Slash Shadow Ball Swords Dance Baton Pass 170/0/170/0/170/0

Party time. Often very easy to get one or two or even three SDs. Passing the boosts isn't even always the optimal play, with a couple of SDs this can sweep on its own

Seviper 2 Quirky Quick Claw Sludge Bomb Earthquake Crunch Giga Drain 170/0/170/0/170/0

Versatility does not equal competence, skip this unless you're truly desperate

Zangoose 2 Adamant Scope Lens Crush Claw Shadow Ball Brick Break Aerial Ace 0/255/0/0/0/255

FINALLY an offensive mon with full Attack and Speed investment. Was that really so hard? Crush Claw stinks but getting the random Defence drop can be pleasing. Absolutely cleaves through frail stuff, enjoy using this

Camerupt 2 Quirky Lax Incense Earthquake Eruption Body Slam Scary Face 0/255/0/255/0/0

Only really useful for having a powerful EQ, you won't be using Eruption at full health ever because literally everything outspeeds you

Sharpedo 2 Quirky Scope Lens Double-Edge Crunch Earthquake Surf 0/170/0/170/0/170

Extremely sexy choice. Again most potent as a revenge killer but you can absolutely sweep with this under the right conditions

Tropius 2 Quiet Focus Band SolarBeam Sunny Day Synthesis Body Slam 0/255/0/255/0/0

Just simply not very good

Magneton 2 Hardy Lum Berry Thunder Rain Dance Thunder Wave Metal Sound 255/0/0/0/255/0

Annoying to use since you inevitably have to set up Rain Dance to consistently hit stuff, I always want to like this but it just never works for me

Mantine 2 Modest Shell Bell Surf Ice Beam Rain Dance Confuse Ray 255/0/255/0/0/0

Very solid choice and extremely tanky

Stantler 2 Adamant Lax Incense Frustration Shadow Ball Thunder Wave Confuse Ray 0/255/0/0/0/255

Decent because you can fairly consistently incapacitate stuff you can't easily kill. It's a semi-decent sweeper but needs the right support

Absol 2 Adamant Choice Band Double-Edge Shadow Ball Aerial Ace Iron Tail 0/255/0/0/0/255

Whenever I've used this I've always been really unlucky and had to switch back and forth because the next enemy mon resisted the move I'd just used. Unfortunately because so much stuff in the Factory runs random defensive investment you often fall short of OHKOs but this is still a pretty superb choice and can pretty reliably get at least one quick kill

Swalot 2 Adamant Leftovers Sludge Bomb Shadow Ball Body Slam Counter 255/255/0/0/0/0

Counter has some utility for Noland, but otherwise this just doesn't cut it

Crawdaunt 2 Adamant Quick Claw Guillotine Frustration AncientPower Aerial Ace 255/0/0/0/255/0

You won't get many kills with this

Pidgeot 2 Adamant Scope Lens Return Aerial Ace Steel Wing Mud-Slap 0/255/0/0/0/255

Not a bad mon in principle but I've never really used this

Grumpig 2 Modest Lum Berry Psychic Ice Punch ThunderPunch Fire Punch 0/0/255/255/0/0

Very, very cool mon, almost never a bad choice

Torkoal 2 Sassy White Herb Overheat Body Slam SmokeScreen Protect 255/0/0/0/255/0

Kind of a one-trick pony in that all it can really do is use Overheat. Smokescreen sucks and Body Slam is pretty worthless here

Kingler 2 Adamant Salac Berry Guillotine Rock Tomb Flail Endure 255/0/0/0/255/0

Really, really scary to play against since Guillotine seems to always hit. Hopefully you'll have a Rock or Steel or Ghost on your team so Flail won't be too threatening

Cacturne 2 Hardy Persim Berry Mega Kick Teeter Dance Faint Attack Sandstorm 0/0/255/0/255/0

Really, really poor

Bellossom 2 Modest BrightPowder SolarBeam Attract Sunny Day Synthesis 0/0/255/255/0/0

Mildly less terrible version of its other set. Literally only used this one time when my next opponent specialised in Water-types and then promptly traded it away

Octillery 2 Quirky Lax Incense Octazooka Fire Blast Thunder Wave Mud-Slap 170/0/170/0/170/0

Inferior version of its other set

Huntail 2 Quiet Shell Bell Surf Rain Dance Crunch Body Slam 255/0/0/0/255/0

Huntail is naturally physically bulky so this takes a ton of punishment. Under rain this is pretty threatening

Gorebyss 2 Quiet Shell Bell Surf Rain Dance Psychic Body Slam 255/0/0/0/255/0

Could have done with an Ice-type move, but this is a serviceable option for sure

Relicanth 2 Sassy Chesto Berry Earthquake Rock Slide Amnesia Rest 255/0/0/0/255/0

Provided you can find something to safely set up on this can put in some good work. Not a very good option overall though because it can't do much against Fighting or Grass mons

Omastar 2 Modest Sitrus Berry Hydro Pump Rain Dance Ice Beam Protect 255/0/0/0/255/0

Pretty cool looking mon. Unfortunately without investment Hydro Pump is still a 2HKO on most stuff when it's not SE, even under rain

Kabutops 2 Adamant Salac Berry Slash Rock Slide Flail Endure 0/255/0/0/255/0

Great for Noland, passable otherwise

Poliwrath 2 Adamant Chesto Berry Brick Break Hypnosis Rest Belly Drum 255/255/0/0/0/0

Don't be fooled by this, I know the thought of successfully pulling off the Hypnosis-Belly Drum-Rest combo is enticing but there's just too much stuff you still won't kill

Scyther 2 Adamant BrightPowder Silver Wind Aerial Ace Swords Dance Double Team 0/255/0/0/0/255

Pretty terrible coverage so you won't be able to sweep consistently with this

Pinsir 2 Jolly Salac Berry Guillotine Swords Dance Flail Endure 255/0/0/0/0/255

Scary as hell to play against and almost always worth trading for. You can often find the time for a couple of SDs and then Endure to grab the Salac boost. Excellent pick for Noland.

Politoed 2 Modest Lax Incense Surf Psychic Mud-Slap Swagger 0/0/255/255/0/0

Powerful Surf but otherwise this doesn't really do much

Cloyster 2 Careful Leftovers Dive Toxic Double Team Protect 255/0/0/0/255/0

Superbly good mon. If you get this it's absolutely worth using, I've taken out multiple teams 3-0 with it

 

[MDG4]

Hi I am new to the Battle Frontier. I want to get the gold symbols @ level 100 with 1 team of 3 pokemon so I do not need to do extensive IV/EV training beyond the 3 I am using.

I have researched online and come up with a pool of Pokemon I am interested in -

Slaking, Starmine, Metagross, Milotic, and Salamance

What is the best 3 pokemon team I can make from this group of 5 that will yield the best results for a level 100 run?

I already have a Beldum with the following IVs: 27/25/29/11/28/31 | Adamant Nature I was thinking the best EVs would be 244 Spe 252 A and 12 HP. - willing to pivot off it if a different group of 3 is better.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated

 

[RosieVGC]

Hi I am new to the Battle Frontier. I want to get the gold symbols @ level 100 with 1 team of 3 pokemon so I do not need to do extensive IV/EV training beyond the 3 I am using.

I have researched online and come up with a pool of Pokemon I am interested in -

Slaking, Starmine, Metagross, Milotic, and Salamance

What is the best 3 pokemon team I can make from this group of 5 that will yield the best results for a level 100 run?

I already have a Beldum with the following IVs: 27/25/29/11/28/31 | Adamant Nature I was thinking the best EVs would be 244 Spe 252 A and 12 HP. - willing to pivot off it if a different group of 3 is better.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated

Metagross, Milotic and Salamence make for a good team. Steel-Water-Dragon is a classic combination due to the way resistances cover each other. All three are just strong Pokémon. And they can compliment each other’s roles. Choice Band Meta, tanky Milotic, setup sweeper Salamence with STAB Aerial Ace to deal with evasion spam.

 

[MDG4]

Metagross, Milotic and Salamence make for a good team. Steel-Water-Dragon is a classic combination due to the way resistances cover each other. All three are just strong Pokémon. And they can compliment each other’s roles. Choice Band Meta, tanky Milotic, setup sweeper Salamence with STAB Aerial Ace to deal with evasion spam.

Done. THANK YOU. I will start researching the other two.

 

[MDG4]

Metagross, Milotic and Salamence make for a good team. Steel-Water-Dragon is a classic combination due to the way resistances cover each other. All three are just strong Pokémon. And they can compliment each other’s roles. Choice Band Meta, tanky Milotic, setup sweeper Salamence with STAB Aerial Ace to deal with evasion spam.

Do you have any suggestions for Salamence build? EV spread + Nature + Moveset based on the team. I was thinking something like:

Adamant Nature w/ (Lum Berry?!? Quick Claw?!?)

4 HP/252a/252spe
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower (maybe Dragon Dance Here instead?!?)
- Dragon Claw

All help is really appreciated :) I want to have a plan before i start breeding.

 

[Archdiocese]

Hello! I'd like to report an ongoing retail streak for the Battle Factory Singles Level 50 leaderboards
Wins:
Round 10, completed battle 2
65^*

Drafted lead Fearow3, and I have Electrode4 and Whiscash4 in the back. This meant rejecting amazing cheese offered to me in the form of Shuckle3 and Misdreavus3, as they lacked the reliability that the offensive options of this draft has to offer, and a slow redundancy in the form of Quagsire1.
31 IV Fearow3 is by far one of the normal flying mons of all time. It's biggest downside as basically just slower dodrio is it gets outsped by Starmie3. To account for this speed creep, I actually brought Electrode4 along. It's thunderbolt excels at covering potential starmie while also having the option of neutralizing threats with boom, and *theoretically covering any skarmory that walls my fearow.) Other steels get relatively dealt with by Whiscash. This, however, is definitely a draft I'm amenable to swapping 1 mon out for in exchange for one of the more reliable win cons.

Fight 1 was against the following

Fighting type
No Phrase
Lead Ludicolo3 or 4 (It got drill pecked once, double teamed, then I missed Drill peck 2 as it used Rain Dance (revealing swift swin) then dies to follow up drill peck)
Blaziken (got one shot by drill peck)
Machamp 6? (One of the sets with cross chop, Fearow lived on red health and picked up the kill)

Ground Type
High Risk
Lead Skarmory4 (used counter on Whis4 Ice beam, surf cleaned it up)
Quagsire1 (countered my Fearow's frustration then died to Whiscash4 EQ.)
Dugtrio in the back (only used Earthquale on Whiscash, but Whis4 was never dead. Risked crit and likely flinch from King's rock. Surf broke through and one shot though)

This strategy seems to have presented as relying on revenge kills as it's bottom line. Most of all, Electrode's thunderbolt picks up most KO's where drill peck or frustration miss out on, or Whiscash picks up the KO after tanking most hits that arent from grass types. At 31 IV these stats make these pokemon worthy over their faster and stronger base stat counterparts in Dodrio and Swampert. One noteable threat that can completely shut down my run at round 10 is metagross, whom I've yet to encounter either in draft or as my opponent thus far this run. For this reason I'm tempted to pick up the dugtrio, but in practice, Electrode generally switches in on mash or rock moves, gets off thunderbolt, as meta never kills whiscash in one shot and gets EQ'd (barring crit or the more likely quick claw interaction)


*(Who I ran into on battle 2, which was a ground type high risk. Skarmory4 RS'd my electrode on switch in then got the QC Rock Slide Crit to seal Electrode2's fate, and afterwards was killed via an Ice Beam+Surf from Whiscash4)


Round 9, if curious, was lucky as my swaps at this point gave me 5 elevations and among those were Registeel4, Snorlax4, and Ursaring6 (Yes, "Freddy Fazbeam"). For the two battles that it didnt get swapped it, it clicked Yawn as the lead to provide Lax and Registeel to setup curses and DT's respectively. Afterwards, it got replaced by a 3IV lati2 and those 3 were enough to get me through to the end. The Nolan fight was particularly intense as Lati led against Lapras (which is scary in it's own right for the potential 7 and 8 sets.) It turned out to be Lapras 4, indicated by it clicking thunderbolt on the regi switch in, since it saw kill overlap on the lati after taking 40% itself from the TBOLT and rolling low on the Ice beam against Lati. AP from regi got it very close to range for lati to pickup the kill with another TBOLT, but it BARELY misses the range to confirm it. So after AP-TWave-Twave-DT-DT, Lapras is around 40% and Regi is at 61hp from surf chip breaking through the hax. Here it never dies to surf but I got crit, swapped to Lax, and got to setup a single curse after it got full para'd. In comes skarmory, so I setup another curse, but it reveals counter. +6 curse Snorlax4 only potentially kills with Double Edge, so I attempt to curse up in front, of it and it gets a steel wing crit off. Now, after going for double edge, missing the KO, then killing with shadow ball, last mon is revealed to be Vileplume1.

In this scenario, the damage calc shows Petal dance kills Snorlax, who is at 36 hp btw, so barring quick claw, Vileplume sweeps with Petal dance on Lax, lives Psychic from the 3IV Lati2, and kills lati ending the run here. BUT, the calc was set to 120 BP for petal dance instead of the 70 it really is in gen 3, and Snorlax lives on 2 HP!!! Then double edges to kill Vileplume1 and Lati is still around so GG Nolan!


I'm new to submitting in general and aren't sure how to submit a proper run, though I figure providing as many details as possible only should help. I've been grinding battle factory attempts on hardware ever since june and I've been more active in LRXC's discord. I'll supply screenshots of my battle factory stats and swaps once I either complete round 10 or the run ends.

 

[RosieVGC]

Do you have any suggestions for Salamence build? EV spread + Nature + Moveset based on the team. I was thinking something like:

Adamant Nature w/ (Lum Berry?!? Quick Claw?!?)

4 HP/252a/252spe
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower (maybe Dragon Dance Here instead?!?)
- Dragon Claw

All help is really appreciated :) I want to have a plan before i start breeding.

Nature and EVs are good. For item either Lum Berry or Sharp Beak to further boost Aerial Ace. Move wise, Aerial Ace and Earthquake are a given. Dragon Dance too, since we want to use him as a setup sweeper so want a setup move. Then for the last slot you either want Rock Slide (Rock-Ground makes for a very good coverage combination) or, preferably in my opinion, Substitute. Sub prevents status moves ruining your day as it blocks them. And it makes sure you have one line of protection against follow up Pokemon with quick claw and a OHKO move/super effective move/cross ruining all of your setup work.

Dragon Claw and Flamethrower are both special so don’t synergise with dragon dance and an adamant nature, while Dragon also hits only Dragon for super effective damage so doesn’t really ‘add’ anything over the other moves.

 

[MDG4]

Nature and EVs are good. For item either Lum Berry or Sharp Beak to further boost Aerial Ace. Move wise, Aerial Ace and Earthquake are a given. Dragon Dance too, since we want to use him as a setup sweeper so want a setup move. Then for the last slot you either want Rock Slide (Rock-Ground makes for a very good coverage combination) or, preferably in my opinion, Substitute. Sub prevents status moves ruining your day as it blocks them. And it makes sure you have one line of protection against follow up Pokemon with quick claw and a OHKO move/super effective move/cross ruining all of your setup work.

Dragon Claw and Flamethrower are both special so don’t synergise with dragon dance and an adamant nature, while Dragon also hits only Dragon for super effective damage so doesn’t really ‘add’ anything over the other moves.

Thank youuuu

 

[BeVreeze]

The first one is Jumpluff. It’s seen some action in VGC over the past few years and for a reason: it’s fast, outspeeds basically everything in the sun, has an amazing movepool for a support role and when being able to fully invest in defense has acceptable bulk. You could run Sunny Day, Encore, Sleep Powder and either Protect or Solar Beam. Could it work in BF Doubles and if yes, any ideas on which teammates would make best use of Jumpluff’s assets?

I looked into building a sunny day team a little while ago, but I haven't come up with anything that looked promising. I'd love to see it, though.

Jumpluff is an interesting pokemon that I'd like to use at some point. Fast encore sounds promising, but it's probably better in singles. Encore is great if someone uses some kind of setup move turn 1, but those usually aren't the pokemon you're afraid of in frontier doubles.

I personally don't think sleep powder will work well in frontier doubles. In vgc tournaments you play sets where you only have to win most of your games or you might play on ladder where you have to win most of your games if you want to climb. In that context 75% accuracy is decent, but in the frontier you have to win every game. You can't afford to miss moves regularly.

There are a lot of ice beam users, including a bunch with quick claw. I would definitely recommend using protect.

Jumpluff gets helping hand. That's probably a move you want to consider, because with its 55 SpA it's probably not doing that much against most pokemon even with a move as powerful as solar beam. Tail whip could also be an option if you have a physical attacker, but your partner is probably spamming fire moves or solar beam whenever possible.

Some other options are substitute to help you survive a turn when you've already protected. Leech seed or toxic could maybe help if you run into something like a last mon blissey and you don't have a strong physical attacker left, but they don't seem too useful on a lead pokemon.

Fast sunny day is nice, but I'm afraid jumpluff will be too passive and probably also dies too easily. I haven't tried it myself so maybe it's better than I think, but I'm afraid it won't get you far.

The second one is good old Ninjask. Getting in a total stat boost of +4 in speed, or +2 in attack and speed, over two turns will never not be good. It could also enable Pokemon like Marowak coming in at +4 speed, or ones like Dragonite, who packs a strong Earthquake, wide movepool and has access to Haze and STAB Aerial Ace to deal with setup annoyances. I have two worries though: one, quick claw usage making Ninjask more of a risk to run on the Baton Pass turn. Two, the fact that you’d need to pair him with a Follow Me user, meaning you’re sacrificing half of the team slots on setting up a single sweeper.

Do you think that trade off could work and if yes, who would you see as the best teammates? Both in regards to the sweeper role, as well as the Helping Hand user (could be Togetic for max bulk, Clefable for bulk and utility, or Magmar/Electabuzz for some added offensive value)?

I was looking into the combination of togetic+marowak recently. I came to the conclusion that it was too weak and slow. Ninjask could in theory solve this problem, but I think you'll give up way too much tempo. There are going to be many battles where your follow me pokemon will die immediately regardless of which one you decide to use. With ninjask being quite frail it will often be targeted which would mean that it will also die or that the pokemon that's coming in may die or get statused and instantly lose you the battle. You'd probably have to win a 2v4 quite often even when you get the boosts onto your desired pokemon. Rock slide is not a very strong move and there are a lot of dangerous pokemon that are immune to earthquake. You're not always going to be able to kill both pokemon which means your boosted pokemon will go down in some of these battles. I suspect that this team will lose to the slightest bit of bad luck, but there are probably leads that are strong enough to stop you without needing much if any luck on their side. Running haze on a baton pass team also sounds very counter productive as you'll lose your own boosts.

For the follow me user I think electabuzz and magmar are just going to die to earthquake constantly, togetic is also weak to ice and electric which means a crit will eventually kill it and allows ninjask to be hit, clefable is probably going to die to a cross chop at some point and allow your ninjask to be targeted.

I'm afraid that this team idea isn't going to work, but I have no experience with this style of team in frontier doubles. Maybe it's better than I expect.

 

[meleeisbetter]

Hi I am new to the Battle Frontier. I want to get the gold symbols @ level 100 with 1 team of 3 pokemon so I do not need to do extensive IV/EV training beyond the 3 I am using.

I have researched online and come up with a pool of Pokemon I am interested in -

Slaking, Starmine, Metagross, Milotic, and Salamance

What is the best 3 pokemon team I can make from this group of 5 that will yield the best results for a level 100 run?

I already have a Beldum with the following IVs: 27/25/29/11/28/31 | Adamant Nature I was thinking the best EVs would be 244 Spe 252 A and 12 HP. - willing to pivot off it if a different group of 3 is better.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated

I don't think you should limit yourself to only 3 mons, and instead spend your time getting a few select Pokemon, even if the stats aren't as good. Getting a beneficial nature with 2 perfect IVs shouldn't be too bad, and if you train the mons all at once, it goes way faster. For example, you can give Bagon and Beldum EXP shares and have a Slaking knock out Pokemon that give attack EVs, and all three of them get the EVs, so you would only have to train their attack once rather than 3 times. In any event, this is somewhat tricky to pick only 3 because they have to be good in every facility. Strong inaccurate moves like Hydro Pump and Meteor Mash are fine in traditional facilities but are awful in the Pyramid, since you want to instead consistently be OHKOing everything you encounter and not giving them an opportunity to status you by missing a move or running out of PP. Palace is a problem as the nature of the Pokemon determines when it will attack, and having a nature that makes you attack more is far more useful than a stat boost. Your Beldum would only attack 38% of the time at full HP with the current nature, but Adamant is a clear better choice in every other facility. Sassy (SpDef up, Speed down) lets you attack 88% of the time from full but usually is not a useful nature on a lot of Pokemon. In the Pyramid, having a Pokemon that can counter the wild encounters well is more important than IVs or training- any old level 50 Houndoom does really well into the Levitate floor/Psychic floor with Crunch. You can also take advantage of the Dome IV glitch to train your Pokemon accounting for their worse stats, like having less speed.

I can imagine Metagross/Milotic/Salamence doing well in the Tower, Arena, and Dome. Factory obviously you have your own Pokemon, and the team could work in the Palace but would want other natures. Pyramid could be difficult. I will personally vouch for Starmie because Natural Cure allows you to avoid a lot of bad RNG with certain statuses and all its moves are 100% accurate and strong. Having Starmie (fast, hits hard) over Milotic (slower, bulkier) also would just make your runs faster since the battles would usually be over sooner. Part of getting a good streak is good luck which usually just means doing runs over and over. Faster team means more runs means more likely to get Gold sooner. As it stands, your team gets wiped by a lucky OHKO quick claw user, but many teams are like this- you just have to hope for a certain amount of luck. Starmie would be max special attack max speed modest nature with surf, psychic, tbolt, and ice beam. Slaking is a beast in the pyramid since you can run Return which has 20 PP (important in Pyramid) and most of the battles are one turn so Truant doesn't matter as much.

I'll write a longer post about this at some point but do your best to not run anything luck dependent on your team, like quick claw. Essentially, because the runs are so long and have so many battles, really bad luck is statistically bound to happen, so you want to operate your team assuming everything bad that can happen will happen (like if you ran quick claw, imagine it never activates, imagine Starf berry never give the right boost, or that Hydro Pump misses 5 times in a row). Consistency is king, especially in the Tower, and Lum is excellent for this reason because you can get bad luck with a Flamethrower burn or something and shrug it off (also why I love Starmie, especially in Pike and Pyramid). Really good luck is bound to happen as well, but you're already going to win those battles, so no need to prepare for them. The one exception I'd make now is Meteor Mash because it's strong, it potentially can give you an Attack boost, and there's no other option besides HP steel which I imagine you don't want to breed for.

For movesets, think about covering as many different cases as possible with each move. Flamethrower on Salamence would be good for Scizor/Forretress/Skarmory, but if you think about other things that you would use Flamethrower on, it probably still beats you or was already going to lose to you. Fire is good against bug/grass/steel, and you already beat bug and grass with flying moves, and steels usually fall to 1-2 earthquakes. Dragon Claw is similar- it's only super effective on Dragon types, many of which have Ice Beam or Dragon Claw themselves, and could survive your Dragon Claw and kill you back. Let's make it a different Pokemon's responsibility to handle these threats- Starmie or Milotic have good matchups into Dragon types and the specific Steel mons we referenced earlier, so we could switch into them when these foes appear rather than trying to make Salamence prepared for all situations. Salamence then can use Dragon Dance, potentially allowing it to sweep, which is great when you can OHKO and outspeed everything as it doesn't give them the chance to hax you. You could keep Flamethrower, but Substitute or Rock Slide might help out more. Metagross can probably take a Choice Band in most facilities with something like Meteor Mash/Earthquake/Shadow Ball with Rock Slide, Explosion, or something like that.

I'd start with getting 3 guys up and running and get in the rhythm of running that team and trying some facilities, then you can maybe get 2-3 more guys later once you have a better understanding of what your original 3 might be lacking. I'm guessing you only have Emerald without the other gen 3 games?

 

[RosieVGC]

Iiiiiuui

I looked into building a sunny day team a little while ago, but I haven't come up with anything that looked promising. I'd love to see it, though.

Jumpluff is an interesting pokemon that I'd like to use at some point. Fast encore sounds promising, but it's probably better in singles. Encore is great if someone uses some kind of setup move turn 1, but those usually aren't the pokemon you're afraid of in frontier doubles.

I personally don't think sleep powder will work well in frontier doubles. In vgc tournaments you play sets where you only have to win most of your games or you might play on ladder where you have to win most of your games if you want to climb. In that context 75% accuracy is decent, but in the frontier you have to win every game. You can't afford to miss moves regularly.

There are a lot of ice beam users, including a bunch with quick claw. I would definitely recommend using protect.

Jumpluff gets helping hand. That's probably a move you want to consider, because with its 55 SpA it's probably not doing that much against most pokemon even with a move as powerful as solar beam. Tail whip could also be an option if you have a physical attacker, but your partner is probably spamming fire moves or solar beam whenever possible.

Some other options are substitute to help you survive a turn when you've already protected. Leech seed or toxic could maybe help if you run into something like a last mon blissey and you don't have a strong physical attacker left, but they don't seem too useful on a lead pokemon.

Fast sunny day is nice, but I'm afraid jumpluff will be too passive and probably also dies too easily. I haven't tried it myself so maybe it's better than I think, but I'm afraid it won't get you far.



I was looking into the combination of togetic+marowak recently. I came to the conclusion that it was too weak and slow. Ninjask could in theory solve this problem, but I think you'll give up way too much tempo. There are going to be many battles where your follow me pokemon will die immediately regardless of which one you decide to use. With ninjask being quite frail it will often be targeted which would mean that it will also die or that the pokemon that's coming in may die or get statused and instantly lose you the battle. You'd probably have to win a 2v4 quite often even when you get the boosts onto your desired pokemon. Rock slide is not a very strong move and there are a lot of dangerous pokemon that are immune to earthquake. You're not always going to be able to kill both pokemon which means your boosted pokemon will go down in some of these battles. I suspect that this team will lose to the slightest bit of bad luck, but there are probably leads that are strong enough to stop you without needing much if any luck on their side. Running haze on a baton pass team also sounds very counter productive as you'll lose your own boosts.

For the follow me user I think electabuzz and magmar are just going to die to earthquake constantly, togetic is also weak to ice and electric which means a crit will eventually kill it and allows ninjask to be hit, clefable is probably going to die to a cross chop at some point and allow your ninjask to be targeted.

I'm afraid that this team idea isn't going to work, but I have no experience with this style of team in frontier doubles. Maybe it's better than I expect.

Hmmm yeah those seem like fair calls. I completely forgot Jumpluff could also get Helping Hand. Perhaps Sunny Day-Helping Hand-Encore-Protect might be worth a try then? Paired with something that can deal with Ice Beam users. I’ll have to see if I can work something out. Also, fair call on Haze, for some reason my brain crashed out and forgot it also deletes your own stat boosts hahaha.

Then onto another option: Scizor. Great defences, good attack stat, access to Swords Dance. Could do the Ninjask trick at slightly lower speed but without needing Helping Hand support, while also being able to dish out some proper damage on his own. I’ve seen a Morning Sun set for him in singles before, but unfortunately don’t have XD so that’s ruled out. Also, I’m doing a playthrough for both FR and Emerald to collect most of my Pokemon (RNGing and then tracking EVs, deleting what’s unwanted with berries after) as I find the enjoyment of the BF greater when it’s done with Pokemon you had along for the entire journey. Only issue is, breeding is post game in FR, as is trading to Emerald. So I’d kinda prefer a set without needing Silver Wind/Baton Pass as well. Do we think that’s still viable? A selection of Aerial Ace, Steel Wing and HP Fighting filled out with Swords Dance, Agility and/or Protect?

 

[MDG4]

I don't think you should limit yourself to only 3 mons, and instead spend your time getting a few select Pokemon, even if the stats aren't as good. Getting a beneficial nature with 2 perfect IVs shouldn't be too bad, and if you train the mons all at once, it goes way faster. For example, you can give Bagon and Beldum EXP shares and have a Slaking knock out Pokemon that give attack EVs, and all three of them get the EVs, so you would only have to train their attack once rather than 3 times. In any event, this is somewhat tricky to pick only 3 because they have to be good in every facility. Strong inaccurate moves like Hydro Pump and Meteor Mash are fine in traditional facilities but are awful in the Pyramid, since you want to instead consistently be OHKOing everything you encounter and not giving them an opportunity to status you by missing a move or running out of PP. Palace is a problem as the nature of the Pokemon determines when it will attack, and having a nature that makes you attack more is far more useful than a stat boost. Your Beldum would only attack 38% of the time at full HP with the current nature, but Adamant is a clear better choice in every other facility. Sassy (SpDef up, Speed down) lets you attack 88% of the time from full but usually is not a useful nature on a lot of Pokemon. In the Pyramid, having a Pokemon that can counter the wild encounters well is more important than IVs or training- any old level 50 Houndoom does really well into the Levitate floor/Psychic floor with Crunch. You can also take advantage of the Dome IV glitch to train your Pokemon accounting for their worse stats, like having less speed.

I can imagine Metagross/Milotic/Salamence doing well in the Tower, Arena, and Dome. Factory obviously you have your own Pokemon, and the team could work in the Palace but would want other natures. Pyramid could be difficult. I will personally vouch for Starmie because Natural Cure allows you to avoid a lot of bad RNG with certain statuses and all its moves are 100% accurate and strong. Having Starmie (fast, hits hard) over Milotic (slower, bulkier) also would just make your runs faster since the battles would usually be over sooner. Part of getting a good streak is good luck which usually just means doing runs over and over. Faster team means more runs means more likely to get Gold sooner. As it stands, your team gets wiped by a lucky OHKO quick claw user, but many teams are like this- you just have to hope for a certain amount of luck. Starmie would be max special attack max speed modest nature with surf, psychic, tbolt, and ice beam. Slaking is a beast in the pyramid since you can run Return which has 20 PP (important in Pyramid) and most of the battles are one turn so Truant doesn't matter as much.

I'll write a longer post about this at some point but do your best to not run anything luck dependent on your team, like quick claw. Essentially, because the runs are so long and have so many battles, really bad luck is statistically bound to happen, so you want to operate your team assuming everything bad that can happen will happen (like if you ran quick claw, imagine it never activates, imagine Starf berry never give the right boost, or that Hydro Pump misses 5 times in a row). Consistency is king, especially in the Tower, and Lum is excellent for this reason because you can get bad luck with a Flamethrower burn or something and shrug it off (also why I love Starmie, especially in Pike and Pyramid). Really good luck is bound to happen as well, but you're already going to win those battles, so no need to prepare for them. The one exception I'd make now is Meteor Mash because it's strong, it potentially can give you an Attack boost, and there's no other option besides HP steel which I imagine you don't want to breed for.

For movesets, think about covering as many different cases as possible with each move. Flamethrower on Salamence would be good for Scizor/Forretress/Skarmory, but if you think about other things that you would use Flamethrower on, it probably still beats you or was already going to lose to you. Fire is good against bug/grass/steel, and you already beat bug and grass with flying moves, and steels usually fall to 1-2 earthquakes. Dragon Claw is similar- it's only super effective on Dragon types, many of which have Ice Beam or Dragon Claw themselves, and could survive your Dragon Claw and kill you back. Let's make it a different Pokemon's responsibility to handle these threats- Starmie or Milotic have good matchups into Dragon types and the specific Steel mons we referenced earlier, so we could switch into them when these foes appear rather than trying to make Salamence prepared for all situations. Salamence then can use Dragon Dance, potentially allowing it to sweep, which is great when you can OHKO and outspeed everything as it doesn't give them the chance to hax you. You could keep Flamethrower, but Substitute or Rock Slide might help out more. Metagross can probably take a Choice Band in most facilities with something like Meteor Mash/Earthquake/Shadow Ball with Rock Slide, Explosion, or something like that.

I'd start with getting 3 guys up and running and get in the rhythm of running that team and trying some facilities, then you can maybe get 2-3 more guys later once you have a better understanding of what your original 3 might be lacking. I'm guessing you only have Emerald without the other gen 3 games?

Wow thank you for this detailed explanation. Maybe what I will do is leave the pyramid for last and rebuild a new team if the current team doesn’t work. I do only have emerald and only 1 Nintendo DS. But I have now learned how to RNG manip with eon timer so I am working on breeding. Hitting frames is a bit tricky.

I am currently working on a slaking with perfect speed hp and attack IVs

I’m almost there.

Slaking
Metagross
Starmie

Do you think this team would be best? Also would a mediocre latios with mild nature be better than a near perfect Starmie?

 

[meleeisbetter]

Wow thank you for this detailed explanation. Maybe what I will do is leave the pyramid for last and rebuild a new team if the current team doesn’t work. I do only have emerald and only 1 Nintendo DS. But I have now learned how to RNG manip with eon timer so I am working on breeding. Hitting frames is a bit tricky.

I am currently working on a slaking with perfect speed hp and attack IVs

I’m almost there.

Slaking
Metagross
Starmie

Do you think this team would be best? Also would a mediocre latios with mild nature be better than a near perfect Starmie?

RNG manip is, in my opinion, totally the way to go. Yes it takes more time initially, but once you get the hang of it, it doesn't end up taking very long and you get stronger mons, which sometimes makes a big difference. Plus it's kinda fun. For Latios, I would compare your Latios' stats against what a Starmie would be. Due to a glitch, Pokemon caught while roaming in this generation have IVs of zero in everything except attack, which is 5 or less, and HP which is the normal 0-31. Mild is not a bad nature when considering you could've ended up with something way worse. Plug in some numbers here against opponents you might face and see the difference yourself: https://turskain.github.io/ (switch it to ADV). Also, consider the synergy. Slaking is weak to fighting, which both of the psychics resist, and metagross is weak to fire and ground, which both resist fire, but Latios is immune to ground while Starmie is neutral. That being said, if the attacker is ground type, then Starmie's stronger surf might come in handy. There's always tradeoffs.

For breeding/RNG abuse, I have a video here that goes over this whole process of start to finish of how I get a mon I want:

it's very long, so feel free to skim or not watch, but this is like an info dump of like 80% of what I know about breeding/EV training/RNG manip optimizations specifically in Emerald.

I think your team will be plenty strong and I think it's worth obtaining the team and testing at this point. There's only so much you can do with theory alone- go play with it, pay attention to your losses (or maybe you only win and get all Golds! yay!) and come back and people can help you workshop it more. Also, even if you have a great team, if you don't know why it's good and can't wield it effectively, you probably won't make it to Gold, so consider after you train your Pokemon, train yourself a bit too by playing some runs and getting used to the Frontier. Good luck!

 

[RosieVGC]

Due to a glitch, Pokemon caught while roaming in this generation have IVs of zero in everything except attack, which is 5 or less, and HP which is the normal 0-31. Mild is not a bad nature when considering you could've ended up with something way worse. Plug in some numbers here against opponents you might face and see the difference yourself: https://turskain.github.io/ (switch it to ADV). Also, consider the synergy. Slaking is weak to fighting, which both of the psychics resist, and metagross is weak to fire and ground, which both resist fire, but Latios is immune to ground while Starmie is neutral. That being said, if the attacker is ground type, then Starmie's stronger surf might come in handy. There's always tradeoffs.

The roamer glitch only affects Ruby, Sapphire, FR and LG. So on Emerald, you can RNG a Latii with good IVs and nature. Only downside is there are no paintings between your save point and the point where the IVs get generated so you cannot adjust the seed, meaning no perfect spreads within reasonable time, just good ones.

If you want a perfect IV Latii just Pomeg glitch an Eon Ticket.

 

[Altissimo]

Jesus Christ please just embrace emulator + PKHex/PKSM I beg you

 

[MDG4]

RNG manip is, in my opinion, totally the way to go. Yes it takes more time initially, but once you get the hang of it, it doesn't end up taking very long and you get stronger mons, which sometimes makes a big difference. Plus it's kinda fun. For Latios, I would compare your Latios' stats against what a Starmie would be. Due to a glitch, Pokemon caught while roaming in this generation have IVs of zero in everything except attack, which is 5 or less, and HP which is the normal 0-31. Mild is not a bad nature when considering you could've ended up with something way worse. Plug in some numbers here against opponents you might face and see the difference yourself: https://turskain.github.io/ (switch it to ADV). Also, consider the synergy. Slaking is weak to fighting, which both of the psychics resist, and metagross is weak to fire and ground, which both resist fire, but Latios is immune to ground while Starmie is neutral. That being said, if the attacker is ground type, then Starmie's stronger surf might come in handy. There's always tradeoffs.

For breeding/RNG abuse, I have a video here that goes over this whole process of start to finish of how I get a mon I want:

it's very long, so feel free to skim or not watch, but this is like an info dump of like 80% of what I know about breeding/EV training/RNG manip optimizations specifically in Emerald.

I think your team will be plenty strong and I think it's worth obtaining the team and testing at this point. There's only so much you can do with theory alone- go play with it, pay attention to your losses (or maybe you only win and get all Golds! yay!) and come back and people can help you workshop it more. Also, even if you have a great team, if you don't know why it's good and can't wield it effectively, you probably won't make it to Gold, so consider after you train your Pokemon, train yourself a bit too by playing some runs and getting used to the Frontier. Good luck!

thank you. My latios has the following IVs and Mild Nature - 18 22 8 26 19 24

I was comparing and its hard to tell.

https://gyazo.com/ccacbcfbce618d10508c0be01348ed34

as you can see Starmie is faster but thats about it

 

[meleeisbetter]

The roamer glitch only affects Ruby, Sapphire, FR and LG. So on Emerald, you can RNG a Latii with good IVs and nature. Only downside is there are no paintings between your save point and the point where the IVs get generated so you cannot adjust the seed, meaning no perfect spreads within reasonable time, just good ones.

If you want a perfect IV Latii just Pomeg glitch an Eon Ticket.

Didn't know they fixed in this Emerald, everyday's a school day.

thank you. My latios has the following IVs and Mild Nature - 18 22 8 26 19 24

I was comparing and its hard to tell.

https://gyazo.com/ccacbcfbce618d10508c0be01348ed34

as you can see Starmie is faster but thats about it

Yeah this Latios looks quite good all things considered

 

[ThrownAway]

It’s been nearly 5 years since I posted an update in this thread… wow.

I recently got the bug to go and try another Open Level (Level 100) streak with my Latias/Steelix/Suicune team. I was inspired to give it another go since a good friend of mine helped me get a much better Suicune on Colosseum via some RNG manipulation. I also performed the Roamer glitch to obtain a perfect 31IV Latias. I’m using almost the stat spreads as before, hitting the same 207 speed on Suicune and 300 speed with Latias. However, I moved the defensive EVs on Latias to Sp. Def, since special Tyranitar leads continue to be this team's biggest threat.

https://pokepast.es/d0858257696d879a

Suicune now has 401 HP which helps me get a bit more out of each Substitute.

My steak is now ongoing at 336 with no serious close calls.