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Lower Tiers RBY NU Hub

speedrun nu.png

speedrunning this shit so they get one sentence each

1. 100% usage justified but can be dropped for an agility mon probably
2. 100% usage is unjustified, ironically makes zard have more openers to sd, very very comfortable lead no contest so i get the usage
3. annoying to run in lead, very powerful mon in back, single sleeper not venomoth in back is so awkward to pilot
4. edges out the spot because of role compression, fearow weakness sucks but you can build a better team with him being shitty
5. fairly matchup neutral. never gonna be in a situation where this guy sucks
6. very comfortable revenge killer with excellent ranges with high potential to bail a losing game
7. can serve as defensive profile while asleep, eq weakness sucks but this can catch zard hbeams when unrevealed, piles damage on everything
8. doesnt just fight magneton, good mu into the other ground and force damage on not seadra not duck
9. stellar for trading with mime and for randomly critting waters down to half, love her
10. stellar for being a thunder waver in nu because there's literally nothing good left and having stupid moveset potential
11. excellent paralysis abuser and the speed tier rly makes a diff in counter/stoss wars
12. thunder waver that hards on mr mime is good, but randomly getting grounded limits fearow as a partner
13. zard + fearow endgames are why this guy should be nu imo, getting value outside of those situations relies on good booms though
14. revenge killed easily by the best revenge killers, but not bad at all into the grounds
15. good zard partner, rest sets probably help with the abundance of waters
16. this robbed some games but its not consistent at all w hypnosis t1
17. if backzard was winning that many games id understand why ud want to lead zard without some of zard's actual benefits
18. this wasn't used much, but you can play pretty badly around zard w this guy imo
19. ground that switches into the rock/ground and possibly handles fearow
20. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1nu-891777
21. see above but worse
22. this shit is ass at single sleeper and probably makes your team worse automatically
23. one day someone will build the 5% team where this works
24. thunder wave automatically makes u 20% more viable to me, does decent damage to mime tbh
 
Just my 2 cents
Arcanine is not too washed.
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Dm on discord if u think im a stupid idiot idw yap on here
1. Mr.mime
2. Venomoth
3. Charizard
4. Raticate
5. Poliwrath
6. Blastoise
7. Magneton
8. Fearow
9. Nidoking
10. Seadra
11. Moltres
12. Golduck
13. Kabutops
14. Porygon
15. Poliwhirl
16. Arcanine
17. Graveler
18. Venusaur
19. Exeggcute
20. Aerodactyl
21. Sandslash
22. Staryu
23. Gastly
24. Kingler
25. Dragonair
26. Wigglytuff
27. Rapidash
28. Magmar
 
Last edited:
what do you mean you guys are forcing us to do this before NUCL is over? lolllll. oh well. ill do this now, add context later

(S) the goats
1. Mr. Mime
2. Venomoth
3. Charizard
(A+) the staples
4. Blastoise
5. Magneton
6. Poliwrath
(A) good pokemon
7. Fearow
8. Raticate
9. Seadra
10. Kabutops
11. Nidoking
(B) good but situational pokemon
12. Arcanine
13. Porygon
14. Golduck
15. Moltres
(C) usually self sabotage, but into the godscout they can get legitimate leads
16. Poliwhirl
17. Graveler
18. Sandslash
(D) always self sabotage, but into the godscout they can survive
19. Aerodactyl
20. Venusaur
21. Rapidash
22. Exeggcute
(E) everything else - do not run
 
my-image (1).png

S
1.mr.mime is rarly if ever gonna sweep or even blow an big hole into the oposing team but its super consistent at doing somthing because of psycic typing ok bulk solid speed twave psycic tbolt and seismic so its very hard to drop
A1
2. charizard is an quit solid mon that often makes progress and can even sweep but setting up an sweep is very hard and depending on the oposing team it can also do very litle so even though its an consistent mon with its high speed good move pool and in general ok stats its a bit less consistent but has higher highs then mr mime the lower consistency makes it also more droppable
3. venomoth is the premair sleeper of the tier with its good speed tier and stunspore after sleep and it even can do somthing afterwards with psycic hb or dedge but sometimes the team rather uses another sleeper or is sleepless
A2
4.poliwrath is an good role compressor of sleeper and zard answer and somtimes you run it as an secondary sleeper if you alredy have an lead sleeper its movepool is also quit good with multiple 4th options
5.fearow is an very strong and fast revenger or sweeper while also not being bad as an lead only problem is if the oponent is running an rock and also a bit with mag
6.rat is fearow light it gives up the highs fearow can reach but isnt as impacted by bad matchups
7.blastois is the other bulky water it gives up a bit of bulk sleep and the movepool variaty of wrath for speed stronger special attack and special bulk and no fighting type weaknesses
8.magneton is an very matchup dependent mon and even in good matchups for it it cant sweep its to slow for that but it can blow masive holes into the team magneton preys on people understemating it till they are invetebly fucked hard by it and then prep for it again i think we are right now in the middle of overpreping for mag but even then its still scary as we can see by how much it influences curent tiering phylosophy
B1
9.kabu is the best rock its not slow quad resists fire and does solid damage vs basically anything it also has sd to help with porygon
10.nidoking is the best ground it was first used as an mag answer but then people saw being an medium fast trader that can trade with most of the tier is good even if the oponent isnt runing mag but supervaluable if the oponent runs mag and gives you free turns but its poisen type is very anoying for it and also that it only barly trades so it cant switch in and stil loses if it gets crit
11.moltress is an ok sweeper that also helps vs mime and the normals its just anoyed by the amount of waters in the tier and also zard
12.porygon can be very strong and wall half of the oposing team or more if it remains unparad and doesnt get crit it needs to play very conservative vs para tough and loses to amna or sd users also only having 2 attacking moves can creat problems for it
13.seadra is the 3rd best agility sweeper and it can also work as an emergency zard check or run rest sets with or without smokescreen only problem for it is that the meta isnt super favorble for an only water and ice attacking mon with there being 5 difrent viable watertypes in the tier and the rest of the meta also doesnt have super bad matchups into it so its somewhat hard to creat good sweeps with it and its somwhat matchup dependent
14.duck is a bit of an mix of the bulky waters and seedra altough its much less bulky but its even faster then stois and got amnisia againthis can helps vs porygon and mime and even give you sweeping opertunitys if the oponent misplays
B2
15.poliwhirl is dumb its not an mon you ever wanna bring its main defining trait is that it doesnt have many bad lead matchups but its good lead matchups arnt really good for it as it needds to use hypnosis and hydropump its very much an mon you wouldnt really bring to an induvidual but instead to an team tour where to oponent trys to scout you and both players get help from 1-3 other people which makes the lead matchup game much harder also even if it wins the lead matchup its stil doesnt bring supermuch as unless the oponent misplays or you get super lucky as it is an frail weak mon that needs amnisia to do anything
16.gravler role compresses an rock and an mag check wile doing solid damge and having explosion but its super slow and any waterattack ohkos you
17.sandslash is the ground that beats the other ground while also helping a bit vs mrmime and being an sd user for pory but sadly its still slower then poliwrath
C
18.arcanine is an ok lead that just does damage and spreads para and also works a bit in the back to help with mime its not bad but it also isnt good
19.venu is an rolecompressed slepper and magcheck which can also help vs waters but its week into many top mons so its very hard to fit
20.aero is the fastest mon in the tier which also helps vs fearo and zard but its super weak if it doesnt crit
21.scyther is an solid sweeper it got sd and agility so it doesnt care as much about para and it also is stronger then zard while not having its water weakness but it has an fire and flying weakness while just thuding into rocks even harder then fearow also its fast speed both helps and hurts it as it outspeeds most mons but also random crits more if it gets the opertunity to set up
22.staru can work as an solid mon with it spreading para and just walling most sets of most waters so depeding on the team it faces it can be quit scary but its slower then mr mime and doesnt have much physical bulk
D speedrun
ok trader
fire that hurts kabu and wrath
fast fire
mr mime check that works half the time
fucks rat sleeper bad otherwise
amni water with twave slow and not very bulky
mr mime check that works half the time but has twave
hits superefectivly
sd sweeper but good vs rocks but still bad
mr mime trader same speed but frail as fuck
 
VR time

Mr. Mime
Charizard
Poliwrath
Blastoise
Venomoth
Fearow
Arcanine
Seadra
Magneton
Porygon
Raticate
Golduck
Graveler
Nidoking
Poliwhirl
Moltres
Aerodactyl
Kabutops
Scyther
Magmar
Kingler
Gastly
Slowpoke
Sandslash
Venusaur
Rapidash
Exeggcute
Staryu
NU Tier List post RBYPL.png

S
:mr mime:
Mr. Mime is the best pokemon in the tier, we all know this. I really dislike the type of gameplay mime introduces by so often trading with itself and occasionally haxing one playing into a massive lead which never feels deserved from either side. It probably should've been banned but with this meta (sadly) coming to a close, it's pointless to do so now.
:charizard:
Charizard is the other S tier mon. With great speed swords dance and strong stab, it's useful in every game. Unlike mime it isn't mandatory to use on every single team, but you can do so and not be punished super hard because even in the face of its worse matchups it's still useful.

A
:poliwrath:
Ranking poliwrath at #3 is a bit of a weird call but let me explain. No matter what if you want to consistently win you will need to land sleep and so the choice is to gamble with venomoth or poliwrath. Venomoth does have a higher accuracy sleep move, stun spore, better speed, ect, but poliwrath is a much better pokemon after landing sleep, especially if it lands sleep on the first try. That's not to slight venomoth because it is still good after landing sleep but it's just to say I believe poliwrath to be better, and while hypnosis accuracy is a huge bummer, that isn't something to hold against poliwrath because it's a sleeper and it's job is to land sleep, It's not like I'm going to make a team without sleep so this doesn't impact viability, so to speak. The extra 15 accuracy venomoth has on poliwrath isn't noticeable enough for me to call venomoth a better mon when both can totally fail at their job and the upside to poliwrath of being a secondary, more disposable water, is better on average.
:blastoise:
Blastoise is a pokemon that can lock down endgames with relative assurance, because of its great matchup again many late game threats, like charizard, seadra, and fearow. Earthquake is especially nice to hit magneton if you don't fancy bringing a ground on that team, and there are even some niche moveset choices like rest, counter, and my favorite tail whip. Much like zard this mon is useful in nearly every single game, though the potential upside to this is a lot lower compared to zard who can just rob games with lucky crits or sword dance on chokes.
:venomoth:
Venomoth is a good pokemon, there's a brave take for you. In all seriousness venomoth is great at landing sleep and can paralyze stuff afterwards. Though you can tell I'm not the biggest fan here ranking this mon at #5. My issues come from stun spore accuracy and low damage output, let's start with low damage output. Even pokemon venomoth should be theoretically beating have odds against moth because it just does so little damage with psychic and really kinda needs those drops, low damage also makes it a lot harder to double switch because the opponent might just stay in and eat the hit because it's not immediately threatening, and when it's attacking and not clicking stun spore it has a nasty tendency to let in so really scary mons like mime, fearow, or zard. Stun spore accuracy also really sucks because it will often just miss and completely fuck over the user, like allowing a fearow free entry instead of paralyzing it. And I don't afford moth the same leniency as I do wrath because sleep is more often than not necessary, paralysis is just nice to have but not always worth the risk of missing. And this especially hurts because moth is supposed to be the consistent sleeper but if you have to land a sleep powder and then a stun spore, I'd really rather take poliwrath who just needs to land hypnosis.

Tldr moth is good, very good even, but both sleepers are inconsistent as hell and wrath is better.

A-
:Fearow:
I really don't have much to say about fearow that isn't fairly obvious, it's a very good revenge killer that struggles into rock types. The main thing I like about fearow as opposed to other matchup fish mons is that it can overcome its poor matchups with good play and/or crits, so it isn't nearly as helpless as say magneton into a ground.
:Arcanine:
Arcanine is the best lead in the tier, no debate. Because you are clicking body slam you can cheese through any lead, and it's not even that unlikely because of arcanine's good attack and crit rate. The only lead that you don't have decent odds against is poliwrath because they are just so bulky. Now lead charizard also exist and your odds against that are also pretty low, but that's why I always run poliwrath in the back to switch in and claim my free sleep. Even past the lead slot arcanine is extremely useful, it can switch into both moth and mime then click body slam to chip down and hopefully paralyze some water type, obviously it isn't always good to let these water types in but if you build a sturdy enough team against waters than this isn't the biggest issue, especially because poliwrath helps with that a good amount. I've also been running leer arcanine a lot recently and it can be very useful against paralyzed pokemon or porygon.

B
:Seadra:
Seadra is maybe the most "whatever" mon in the tier for me, it does its job well but not like super well. It's beaten by other waters which are on every team but if you can remove them seadra is a force to be reckoned with. It's much less splashable than blastoise or poliwrath but firmly the third best water type in my opinion. It also gets some funny options like rest or smokescreen, but I haven't played around with these too much.
:Magneton:
This is the ultimate high risk high reward pokemon. It loses real bad into grounds but is very happy into everything else, it's especially nice into porygon which has been on the rise lately. Ground types have been a bit more popular recently, especially nidoking, but even so magneton is always worth considering for a team and must be kept in mind whilst building or else you might just get steamrolled.
:Porygon:
Porygon has been on the rise, and this has led to a lot of crazy meta developments, now every team must have a plan to take this duck out. During Rbypl I ran a lot of niche options to take out porygon, leer arcanine, tail whip blastoise, golduck over my standard blastoise to amnesia and kill it, even some of my nidoking were chosen more with the intention of playing around porygon rather than for magneton. I didn't run a lot of porygon of my own because It's unreliable and I don't at all like the type of gameplay it brings, but I loaded it a few times and while I got unlucky more often than not this pokemon still has a lot of merit.
:Raticate:
Raticate is a super lame pokemon to use but a necessary evil if you want a fast normal type and don't want to load a fearow into rocks every game. It really only succeeds as a revenge killer because of its poor bulk, but it does do that pretty well.

B-
:Golduck:
The most mediocre water type in the tier, it does have some nice moveset options but the loss in bulk makes it so much worse than blastoise. The only reason I ever find myself running this is when I have a team that is weak into porygon so I throw this on over blastoise and call it a day.
:Graveler:
Graveler isn't great but being able to check fearow and counter magneton in one slot is insane role compression. I'm never over the moon about loading graveler but I have had great success with it because it has a high chance to face something it wants to, and it isn't even useless if it doesn't get the matchup. While not something I specifically run this mon for, graveler can survive +2 charizard earthquake and rockslide it into dust, unlike a certain other rock type who can't ko zard in one with its stab move. It also has explosion which isn't always useful because you want to remain alive to check stuff, but it's very good when you can click it, I also always run substitute to punish chokes late game.
:Nidoking:
Nidoking is the last pokemon on my list that I would consider genuinely good. Ground typing is of course nice for magneton, but its other attributes are what make it good. While not amazing its speed tier is solid getting the jump on porygon and the most relevant water types, it also has thunderbolt making it the only ground actually capable of fighting waters if it really comes down to it. Its movepool goes even further with blizzard, rockslide, and substitute all being solid, it even has leer if it really wants extra insurance against porygon, which is another good matchup for it because it can dodge twave and fish for crits or just pivot out. Nidoking does still have a lot of problems with things such as water types and really anything faster than it, but it's great into magneton and useful elsewhere.

C
:Poliwhirl:
Poliwhirl only exists as a cheese lead with a high potential upside and the risk of missing hypnosis and being completely useless. If you like gambling this is the mon for you, it just isn't the mon for me.
:Moltres:
Moltres has been on a major downtrend ever since fire spin was banned, but the fact it even needed that to hang in the first place shows how awful it is.

C-
:Aerodactyl:
Aerodactyl is not a good pokemon, nor is it even really viable, but it has a niche that can be used for those so inclined.
:Kabutops:
Everyone is going to call me crazy or idiotic for putting kabutops this low, even below famous shitmon aerodactyl, but just hear me out so you can properly make fun of me. Kabutops is meant to be a fearow check, and while it does win 1v1 it does so little elsewhere that I'd actually be happy to take the chip on kabutops and then just switch in something that forces kabutops out, and finding something that forces this mon out is pathetically easy because it's the entire tier. Kabutops literally cannot afford to take any damage from anything that isn't a fearow or else it just crumples, especially because it can't one shot fearow, or even come close enough that fearow it in range of its own recoil. Kabutops only other positive matchups, acanine and moltres, are not super relevant because moltres is a bad pokemon who's usage is dying, and arcanine is a lead who outside of myself has never had high usage, and there also aerodactyl but that mon has almost zero usage these days. Outside of these mons kabutops is useless because it can never afford to take an attack when it gets the fearow matchup and if it doesn't than you wasted your team slot, which to be clear was wasted on kabutops regardless. Oh yeah and just to pile on kabutrash some more it is the easily the most counterable (the move) mon in the tier, if the opponent has counter blastoise or god forbid poliwrath you might as well gg because you sure as hell can't scout for that with kabutops's paper mache body.
:Scyther:
I've used this mon once in a tournament game and it won, I've always wanted to use scyther again but just haven't gotten around to it.

D
:Magmar:
I've also used this thing once and it won, but unlike scyther I don't see as much value in this guy because other fires are just better mostly.
:Kingler:
Just like the last two I brought this guy once, however it didn't win so it gets the lower spot.
:Gastly:
I used to use this a fair amount, then I stopped and my brain grew three sizes that day. Jokes aside gastly will die if it misses hypnosis and it has really rough matchups outside of that.
:Slowpoke:
Maris brought this once and it won in style so that automatically makes it better than all the mons below who lose constantly and even when they do win they have to drag themself to the finish line.
:Sandslash:
Technically has some advantages over other ground types but they are so minimal that you'd never notice.

D-
:Venusaur:
Please stop using this I'm worried about you.
:Rapidash:
I don't drink diet soda and I don't use diet arcanine.
:Exeggcute:
Good pokemon if you like losing 1v1 to the things you check.
:Staryu:
Despite what you may believe this pokemon is not a star.

Unranked
These pokemon don't count for the ranking, all of them are just mons I've seen used or considered using but were too bad to justify ranking.
 
And here's the official tier list. Thank you to everyone to sent a submission and a big thanks to Wanted in 49 States for walking me through the process of how to make this. You can see where everyone ranked everything below

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q9_RQmaMrVmCurfXxIFNtIGuOib5niDIuIkjILspNUw/edit?usp=sharing

And this is where everyone ended up (after we moved Grav up so we didn't have a tier containing just Grav.)

1766978635291.png


This is just an interim so no Porygod rising sadly.

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Some Fun Facts

Porygon is the highest ranked non-NU pokemon at 12th while Victreebel is the lowest ranked NU pokemon at

Staryu has the biggest gap between its highest rank and its lowest rank, ranging from 18th-32nd.

I have no idea what this dendrogram means. It just looks like Grav got constant byes up until round 4 of a tournament.

This is likely gonna be the last time Seadra will be happy.

Golduck in NU is more important than Mew2 in Ubers and is ranked 14th. I think Ubers needs to put Mew2 on a fraud watch.

Here's hoping the new era approaching NU will be as good as it was made out to be in the hypothetical battles we had a while ago. Multiple defensive mons that doesn't lose to half the tier? In a lower tier? Hell yeah.
 
PSA: Please do not click Super Fang in the Raticate lastmon mirror. It has worse odds.
Presuming you win the final speedtie and 1/256 misses do not occur:
Body Slam into Hyper Beam is around a 94.9% chance to win.
(~18.95% chance you crit Body Slam one and KO with the next one, ~13.82% you don't crit Bslam and hit and crit the Hyper Beam, ~62.14% you don't crit either attack and hit the Hyper Beam and get the 94.6% roll)
Super Fang into Hyper Beam is around a 82.7% chance to win.
(~81% chance that you land both Super Fang and Hyper Beam, ~1.7% you miss Super Fang but land a crit Hyper Beam next turn)

In a pure mirror, Super Fang odds are in reality even worse, since it is optimal to go for the Super Fang misser to go for Hyper Beam crit outspeed (~17% chance of occuring rather than Hbeam miss from opponent which is only 10%), meaning you have to recharge next turn. Please stop clicking Super Fang in the lastmon mirror it is not right
 
NUCL done. 8-1, my best teamtour ever by score I believe :D

Old NU was a real banger, one of my favorite RBY tiers ever. I'm gonna repost my list and actually add some thoughts now, ofc meta is dead now but hopefully they are interesting to fans of the old iteration of NU. Not gonna touch on everything bc I already made a comprehensive post about the overall state of the tier here, just adding a few updated observations after RBYPL and NUCL

(S) the goats
1. Mr. Mime
2. Venomoth -- This is probably the single biggest thing I've come to unbalance myself on. I watched one too many games where solo Poliwrath got sleep off but paid its full health bar for it, I think Venomoth is just so much better. The accuracy, the Nidoking insurance (mon is actually demonic vs Venoless), Stun is Porygon ensurance also, there are sooooo many things to like about this mon. Full Veno hate is possible and viable, and I don't think this mon should have the full 100% usage like Mime vs. wise and cteam-savvy opposition, but it is by far the clear best sleeper for me. Wrath is still very serviceable in addition to Venomoth, but I don't see solo Poliwrath as reliable enough in most situations.
3. Charizard
(A+) the staples
4. Blastoise
5. Magneton -- Autowin potential for this mon pushes it up to 5 for me, especially vs. Graveler users as I think that mon is bad and not a real punish. Giving Nidoking free entry is very bad, I'm happy with this guy in every other match up incl. some unique qualities as a lead so I'm pretty convinced to push him at 5.
6. Poliwrath -- As I said above in the Veno paragraph, I don't rate this mon as a solo sleeper I think those structures are gambly and unsound. But I've ran it together with Veno quite a few times especially towards the end of NUCL, still a very good mon (and solo Wrath is probably still necessary from time to time as 100% Veno gets exploitable in concept, tho I don't think I got punished much for it at all)
(A) good pokemon
7. Fearow
8. Raticate
9. Seadra -- This mon rose a lot in my estimations as Nidoking has gotten more popular, feels like it hits so many more outstanding endgames since then. Agi/Surf/IceBeam/Rest to win the 1v1 with enemy Seadra and cheese random paralyzed things w/ Rest until FPs is a set I enjoyed a lot. Still very MU fishy, but a lot of people are scared asf to ever load Rest Waters and end up loading autoloss to Seadra so. I've enjoyed this guy
10. Kabutops
11. Nidoking -- The three bolded guys above all have quite a lot to do with Nidoking's rise in popularity, this guy has shifted a lot of subtle balances. Great pokemon, extra high or extra low Nidoking is something to pay very keen attention to when deciding what structures you should or shouldn't try.
(B) good but situational pokemon
12. Arcanine
13. Porygon -- Ended up loading this I think maybe once in all NUCL but not because he's bad, I just struggled to conceptualize consistently good endgames for it vs most scouts. But I think I probably ought to have used it more. Struggled to find space for it alongside my desire to simultaneously spam Venomoth and respect enemy Venomoth, good pokemon though.
14. Golduck
15. Moltres -- Could maybe make a case for this to rise a couple spots, the damage on this guy is just crazy. You can have shit type mu into the entire tier but when you still crit them for 50 you have space to maneuver, the base damages are just so high. 2HKOing Magneton/Mime/etc is just nuuuuuts. Somewhat situational but I've grown to enjoy the stat stick. Tox Rest much better than anything with Agility, don't rate the endgame cleaner very much
(C) usually self sabotage, but into the godscout they can get legitimate leads -- I feel really strongly that you should not use these guys almost ever. These are the sub-Jolteon/Slowbro tier in OU terms. Should have single digit % usage.
16. Poliwhirl -- Math just isn't in his favor in the long run compared to other options, lead mus aren't interesting or unique enough to justify him over the much more consistent options. Could have dropped him even lower tbh
17. Graveler -- Slow as sin and SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO weak and forced out hard by so much stuff. Most of the time I'm not unhappy to slam my Fearow STAB into this, take the Rock Slide or EQ on switchout, and get another hit onto something else as the Grav is forced to switch out. That's just not a very punishing sequence. Magneton is punished ever so slightly harder as it's walled indefinitely in theory, but bringing out the early Magneton and using the Grav for free sleep with either of Veno/Wrath leads down good lines too. The bad MUs (waterspam etc) force you to explode in really shit spots to have any chance at value at all otherwise you're just deadweight and swept. The typing looks convenient but I think the stats are not there in practice. Then again, his NUCL winrate is phenomenal (12-4 through W6 pending hosts updating the rest of the thread xddd) so maybe I'm wrong.
18. Sandslash
(D) always self sabotage, but into the godscout they can survive
19. Aerodactyl -- actually I probably underrated this mon, the MU on SD Zard is straight up really handy. Has the Graveler Problem where I don't think the defensive utility is worth the tradeoff of hitting like a complete wet noodle, buuuuut, maybe I have slept on this guy also, owning backzard is genuinely really nice.
20. Venusaur
21. Rapidash
22. Exeggcute
(E) everything else - do not run
 
the new nu drops have been official for a little, and i have various miscellaneous thoughts after a few weeks of RBY kickoff tour and altpl IV. these will likely become outdated soon as more games are played but hopefully should be an interesting historic bookmark or possibly get a few other people's gears turning to specific mons while the meta is in infancy . i will also slap a vr on here because viability rankings are cocomelon for smogon users

my-image(17).png

Kadabra
after being shut down by hypno , farmed by slowbro and demolished by dugtrio and persian in uu, kadabra probably is the new #1 in nu, and despite being so , is likely less oppressive in-game and in builder than mr mime in 2025 nu? i certainly tried to drop mr mime during a few nu games and outside of some possible endgame advantage with another pokemon with agility, there was no making up for the extreme pressure you got with 2025 mr mime. fortunately, the 2026 nu is a lot more equipped for avoiding kadabra mirrors, both before and after paralysis: mr mime is a entire slot instead of a half slot like exeggcute and drowzee, the waters have higher special, and golem is 2hko'd by psychic 5% of the time and will always survive a critical hit at full:

Kadabra Psychic vs. Vaporeon: 104-123 (22.4 - 26.5%) -- 21.3% chance to 4HKO
Kadabra Psychic vs. Dewgong: 114-135 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 19.8% chance to 3HKO
Kadabra Psychic vs. Golem: 158-186 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 5.4% chance to 2HKO
Kadabra Psychic vs. Golem on a critical hit: 306-360 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

golem hinges on predicting a thunder wave and hard switching in during the expected thunder wave trade with the other kadabra. i havent dropped kadabra in any games yet, but the mirror is certainly not a forced play. playing the mirror will still be good enough for many games, im sure
psychic thunder wave and recover are probably the only 3 mandatory moves: seismic toss is literally only used for the kadabra mirror and mr mime and frankly, you dont need it for the mirror. kadabra is significantly physically frailer than mr mime : this mostly means slapping random hyper beams into your pokemon to snipe a paralyzed kadabra after you trade paralysis., and often times just paralyzing the kadabra means you will KO it later in the game or directly after the mirror with something else. seismic toss does about twice the damage as psychic on average but spamming psychic is frankly more effective: whoever gets the first drop can now keep spamming their strongest move for criticals, more drops, and more damage than stoss in case they try to switch to something that would shrug off stoss, and with reapplication kadabra will be slower than whatever is switched in even if it calls it out with thunder wave. i was already preaching for people to drop seismic toss on kadabra in 2024 uu and i will repeat myself here

reflect , substitute and kinesis/flash are all options to consider for kadabra: kadabra is killed by a few hyper beams in one hit but will survive them and hit back twice(barring criticals), which is an option to save itself in a scenario where it has to 1v1 a fearow(before it clicks agility) orraticate(going for hail mary beam), and leaves it safer to fight waters. substitute is brutally punishing on sacks with no thunder waver to stop it, and kinesis might ruin an opponent sweep if throwing the thunder wave out isnt a more viable option. it can certainly force kadabra out in the mirror efficiently.

I like the impact kadabra has in the tier: charizard and fearow can be revenge killed effectively, venomoth is less oppressive due to finally having a faster pokemon to paralyze it or just 2hko it, and it makes for a decent sleepblocker with recover. The lower physical defense means it is far easier to deal with once it is paralyzed and relatively easy to contain: it also encourages slapping hyper beam on random pokemon so they can snipe it

Venomoth Hyper Beam vs. Kadabra: 155-183 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Poliwrath Hyper Beam vs. Kadabra: 185-218 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Victreebel Hyper Beam vs. Kadabra: 212-250 (74.9 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dewgong Hyper Beam vs. Kadabra: 162-191 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Raticate & Fearow

I dont have nearly as much to say about raticate despite it likely being another contender for #1. There's almost no bad matchup for it in the tier's current state, with what i assume will happen:

there will be a sleeper in most teams
there will be a kadabra in most teams

if you consider these 2 facts , you see why raticate is good. thunderbolt is not quite as good with all the waters since raticate has 50 special and vaporeon takes more from body slam than thunderbolt. blizzard really shouldnt be dropped with how actually good golem is. substitute may be possible to fit if you play around the existence of rock/water pokemon somehow, tbh, the potential upside is really good on sacks. despite these facts also applying to fearow, it is also significantly stopped by golem, who is quite good. nidoking isnt a rock type but will 2hko fearow because of the thunderbolt/blizzard weakness, but 3hkos raticate with earthquake. fearow of course is significantly more dangerous to sleepers and kadabra but the presence of golem and dewgong will certainly keep it down from being a spammable pick

half of raticate's newfound success comes from fearow and charizard having to contend with a better rock type and stronger bulkier water types btw: those 2 are not as spammable anymore

Vaporeon

This is...a lot weaker than i expected in practice. 130/65/110 bulk means you can send this into almost anything and equalize the trade somehow, but the 65 speed and lack of seismic toss means every other water and the razor leaf grasses have the free entry to pressure it. dewgong is free to freeze fish, golduck and poliwrath have amnesia, tentacruel has sub + sd, kabutops is faster and 3hkos with slash(surprisingly not usually 2hko'd by surf). this literally only applies pressure to omastar out of all the waters? It is , fortunately, quite consistent at trading down with anything that is not a water type or grass type. I think that alone makes it quite good despite how slow and passive it can be. this is also the one water type that can get away with hard switching into venomoth post sleep stun spore and still being very functional(likely the best rest user too). acid armor and sand attack are moves that should be explored on vaporeon

Dewgong


Dewgong actually has a stronger blizzard than Lapras, its just worse than it in a lot of ways LOL
Despite being less bulky than vaporeon, this can comfortably switch into vaporeon , click substitute and proceed to spam body slam or ice moves, depending on whether you want to freeze fish or fish for paralysis. it is also great to have a water type that cannot get freeze fished that also fishes for random freeze with its optimal damage moves. shoutout toxin boost and amaranth for bringing this into each other in the same game of the set

Dewgong Blizzard vs. Fearow: 338-398 (101.5 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO -- this is a great calc

not actually resisting fire is quite unfortunate though, not something i rly considered when using it but does make fire types a lot more dangerous

Charizard

This isnt going to win games with swords dance as often as 2025 nu, but it is still effective as a lead, just likely better running 4 attack sets now instead of trying to sweep. trading charizard for 60-90% of a water is still rather viable as an opener in the lead slot, as charizard is both fast and ok to great vs the other fastmons. despite receiving 3 whole new water types you probably still dont want to run all of them together so zard is a good way to weaken at least 1 and set up another water(or fire!) to be mostly unimpeded.

Poliwrath

A little bit worse than before, but honestly should have bigger moveset diversity and remain viable as a sleeper that enters on vaporeon and charizard safely. Kadabra is going to be a nightmare to it, but should also be the safest switch to an amnesia set post sleep in many games, giving it the chance to pressure it directly. Vaporeon is a godsend for this, as it finally has a slower pokemon to hard switch into and click hypnosis vs. He finally gets to play like venomoth in exactly (1) matchup. i have tried a hypnosis amnesia substitute 1 attack set that is quite threatening to set up on vaporeon and should be kept in rotation with how common vaporeon will likely be

Golem

Since graveler historically was quite bad (but usable) in 2025 nu, i had similar expectations for golem going into the tier, but im pleasantly surprised to say golem's stats actually do make quite a difference. it still dies in one hit to the waters clicking their water type move but it dishes out more damage and isnt actually 2hko'd by psychic from mr mime or kadabra. raticate only has a roll to 2hko it with blizzard(Raticate Blizzard vs. Golem: 165-194 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 36.2% chance to 2HKO) which lends to golem playing less predictably. The higher physical bulk also checks fearow this time more than barely.

Fearow Double-Edge vs. Graveler: 45-54 (14.3 - 17.2%) -- possible 6HKO
Fearow Hyper Beam vs. Graveler: 68-81 (21.7 - 25.8%) -- 2.1% chance to 4HKO
Fearow Hyper Beam vs. Golem: 62-74 (17 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
Fearow Double-Edge vs. Golem: 42-50 (11.5 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO


it also:
outspeeds exeggcute and porygon
ties wigglytuff
which i dont consider very important but are nice for the random shitmons

all this without bringing up the elephant in the room

Tentacruel

Is this the future rby zu superstar LOL


its not btw. the 100 speed tier does a lot here: tying fearow and charizard and revenge killing raticate is huge. when you consider how often kadabra likes to trade paralysis, it is often not an issue in practice. sub + swords dance + hyper beam is a very good set for setting up on vaporeon and dewgong. this set also introduces an interesting dynamic with grasses: without blizzard, victreebel and tangela are both able to switch in and click stun spore to shut the set down and break the sub(the world if venusaur learned stun spore utopia.png). tentacruel sort of fulfills the niche that seadra did as a fast water type in 2025 nu but a lot more dynamic with swords dance and substitute


Omastar

the actual future rby zu superstar


If vaporeon has an issue with fighting other waters rn, omastar is like that but wayyyy worse LMAO. vaporeon is already slow at 65 and this is even slower at 55. it doesnt resist water and is ohko'd by razor leaf from vic and venu. demolished by earthquake from golem too, and it doesnt do a good job of handling kadabra in a 1v1 either. Nearly as passive as Vaporeon but with far less consistent bulk, so ill settle for mentioning the few niche advantages omastar may have over kabutops:

it 1v1s kabutops pretty efficiently
Kabutops Surf vs. Omastar: 74-88 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- 0.6% chance to 4HKO
Omastar Surf vs. Kabutops: 142-168 (43.9 - 52%) -- 13.4% chance to 2HKO

4hko'd instead of 3hko'd by rat thunderbolt, so in a 1v1 scenario its definitely better
the higher special bulk means it could attempt to hard switch on kadabra , but less threatening than kabutops in return with the lack of physical moves

Victreebel & Venusaur

With Blastoise and Golduck seeming worse rn, tentacruel having a set that may drop ice moves occasionally, vaporeon being speed 65 and dewgong tying at 70, this looks like a surprisingly friendly meta for victreebel. Venusaur at speed 80 has the advantage of tying kabutops so its not slapped around as easily by slash, but the lack of stun spore might be too punishing for it

Electrode

i didnt forget about the demon btw. i think electrode should be clicking thunderbolt a lot more than thunder wave with a 27% chance to do 1.95x the damage. or commit to twave into boom or smth. this ensures you will shut down at least one fast mon if they dont have checks for trode. it also does a pretty good job of switching into itself so grasses and grounds arent really needed to check it, they just offer a more decisive advantage than playing mirror. of course golem vs golem is a nicer prospect than electrode vs golem. much like in this post, electrode works better if kept hidden for a while, if the player can force the opponent's ground to sacrifice itself to fight raticate or smth, as golem into mosts lasts is quite bad, so if the opponent assumes a water or a grass, the incentive to sacrifice golem is there with limited information

there are a number of pokemon in here i did not talk about much, so i leave it to the yappers to elaborate on them if they wish
 
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