I was shooting more for balance (hazard stack volt turn), but I admit i cant tell the difference between the two playstyes. I wanted to give Pain Split Rotom a try s I keep momentum flowing
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Resource SV OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread
- Thread starter ironwater
- Start date
During Wcop, I didn't end up playing SV OU, but got to build. The 3 Wishers that I managed to make kind of work are:
-Pdef Rocky Helmet with Wish, Morning Sun, Psychic Noise, Copycat Espeon with Tera Bug. Most of the time is not an actual passer, but Copycat sometimes does allow to pivot. The main feature though is Magic Bounce. Espeon can deny Hazards against many Mons and also do funny stuff with Copycat like a Ruination to a Ting Lu (who never 2HKOs with EQ even when no Tera, unless it's offensive of course).
-Also Pdef Rocky Helmet Illumise with Wish, Roost, Encore and U-Turn, Tera Ghost (Extreme Speed immunity). Pure Bug allows Illumise to easily switch into most Tusks and Zamazentas, among other things. Prankster Encore sabotages all non-Dark set-up and when Illumise is about to die, it can still use one last priority Wish.
-Offensive Latias with Wish, Roost, Ice Beam and Aura Sphere, still Rocky Helmet (goated item) and Tera Steel. Levitate + Tera Steel is an amazing combo that allows to wall big threats, like Glimmora, Kyurem, Gliscor and most Enamorus. Since it's the anti-Gliscor, Ice Beam (pre-Tera) and Aura Sphere (post Tera) are the offensive moves, I wish Latias got Psychic Noise vs slower teams, but only Latios gets it unfortunately.
All of these 3 Mons appear on this Savouras post about our Wcop teams: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/world-cup-of-pokemon-2025-sv-ou-discussion.3764281/#post-10630984
They are all niche, but serve their purpose. Alomomola does not pair well with both Scarf Samurott and AV Primarina, since they are all Water types. That is a problem for the Water starters, since they are both trading usually (killing one opponent at the expense of their own HP). Alternative Wishers solve this by allowing them to stick around longer. AV Okidogi also likes Wish, because like Primarina, he is a trader in most match-ups.
Basically, if you cover Waterpon well and don't need offensive Waters yourself, use Alomomola, it's a proven Mon, easy to use and works. Otherwise, there are alternative Wishers that can do the job better.
Coming back to OU after a while (like 6 months).
Few questions. Why are people saying dnite is broken now (its always been in the tier and while espeed was annoying iirc it wasnt a very big problem)? Also I sorta get gweez but why is TORNADUS in OU? More specifically what sets allowed these 2 to rise? Also smaller explanations on scizor, pecha, deoxys, heatran would be appreciated.
Few questions. Why are people saying dnite is broken now (its always been in the tier and while espeed was annoying iirc it wasnt a very big problem)? Also I sorta get gweez but why is TORNADUS in OU? More specifically what sets allowed these 2 to rise? Also smaller explanations on scizor, pecha, deoxys, heatran would be appreciated.
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A lot more sets have been explored and use, a lot of users express discomfort regarding set variety, the biggest innovations have been regarding Encore and Tera Blast
Encore always gets ran with Jolly, to maximize the amount of things you can maximize the things you encore, allowing you to get to +2 easily
Tera Blast, on the other hand, lets you have Flying STAB, and there's surprisingly few physical fly resists, so having this option is cool, but the most common one is fairy, this is because you know take enemy dragons, and escape the ice weakness, especially considering Great Tusk frequently uses Ice Spinner and Zamazenta sometimes uses Ice Fang for dragonite and gliscor. Then, you add more unorthodox sets like tera ground earthquake + stone edge to bait and KO moltres and raging bolt, tera fire + fire punch for corviknight and skarmory, the usual tera normal extreme speed, moves like roost. And with double removal support, you can include items like the tablets for more tblast damage, covert cloak for garganacl, leftovers for easier multiscale recovery, loaded dice for scale shot fun. And you can see why people have troubles with it.
People who argue against dragonite ban will argue that dragonite cannot do all these things at once, and that, being able to check its set early on based on educated guesses + plays made in the game, damage calc and hazard damage can help in guessing the set and act accordingly. While also being not instantly threatening due to its rather low speed
defog against dengo :thumbsup:
Weezing-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpA
Bold Nature
- Strange Steam
- Defog
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
It is a dedicated balance breaker that basically vaporizes all defense either by Knock Off + U-turn or by Nasty Plot + 3 attacks, some people like to use AV on double removal teams alongside partners like Hatterene, Cinderace or Great Tusk, that allows it to take extra hits and retaliate
CB Bullet Punch is good vs cheese mons like Kyurem, Enamorus and Iron Valiant
The best Zamazenta check in the tier, zamazenta cannot break unless multiple crunch defense drops, this is also a decent ogerpon-w check, dnite check and spin blocker since it can potentially outspeed tusk, or tank a headlong rush, busted pivot move with parting shot, reliable recovery, broken ass Malignant Chain. Tera dark with Foul Play to deny physical sweepers, and this thing has Nasty Plot too for some reason
fastest mon in the tier and has a shit ton of moves and sets
Stealth Rock user that beats Galarian Weezing, Corviknight and Cinderace 1v1
0 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Neutralizing Gas Weezing-Galar: 440-522 (131.7 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
are people not using mir ghold anymore or smth?
anyway thats about the only question i have thanks for answering
While geezing can't directly switch into it, neutralising gas means that defog cannot be blocked by gholdengo, which is something other defoggers like corviknight cannot do. Geezing also shuts down gliscor really hard as even if it has earthquake (and a good amount do not), then it's not getting it's poison healing. It also means you can wisp Garg, stop regen on mola/glowking and lots of other neat tricks like being able to set up tspikes against hatt (though that is rarer).
how exactly does the viability system work?
who decides which pokemon are viable or niche and which are neither?
what do the rules say about who can suggest and who can't suggest a change.
no I don't have any suggestions for any changes, I am just asking out of curiosity.
it is weird that one guy managed to make it number 2 on the ladder one time with probopass yet probopass never made it to the lowest tiers of the viability list.
who decides which pokemon are viable or niche and which are neither?
what do the rules say about who can suggest and who can't suggest a change.
no I don't have any suggestions for any changes, I am just asking out of curiosity.
it is weird that one guy managed to make it number 2 on the ladder one time with probopass yet probopass never made it to the lowest tiers of the viability list.
Everyone on the VR council can vote on what rank they want a mon to be, and then it gets averaged.
VR council, at the top of the VR thread
Anyone can suggest in the thread
Ladder results are pretty meaningless and Probopass is not a Pokemon you're going to be consistently winning with at a high level, if every pokemon that could get high ladder was on the VR then everything would be on the VR, even stuff like Flittle and Pikachu
Hi everyone! I'm pretty new to learning competitive battling and I made this team that I've been laddering with. I've watched alot of Blunder and Aim's videos so I've gotten to see what mons are meta.
I wanted to get some feedback from more experienced players on what the team needs to improve. Banded Tusk puts in that work but I've struggled with Samurott-Hisui leads... can't expect myself get the lead matchup right every time lol.
Looking forward to hearing what better players think, and getting more ingrained in the community here!
I wanted to get some feedback from more experienced players on what the team needs to improve. Banded Tusk puts in that work but I've struggled with Samurott-Hisui leads... can't expect myself get the lead matchup right every time lol.
Looking forward to hearing what better players think, and getting more ingrained in the community here!
Since I have been gone, some things have changed. There is some confusion on topics of discussion.
1. Where can I discuss the concept of alternate ladders in general?
I'm not talking about the Solgaleo ladder. I'm talking about the idea of seperate ladders as a whole and the past discussion that were had around that. Where can we talk about this?
2. What mechanics can we actually discuss in the main OU thread when it comes to tiering action?
I ask because, with all the 30+ mons and maybe counting we have banned, perhaps a different approach to find balance would be a better idea. So this led me to want to discuss mechanics. Tera is apparently off limits. Except sometimes it isn't? I don't even know. Does the Tera talk include Tera Blast, too? Or can that be separated out as distinct? What about other mechanics. Is that allowed anymore? All I'll say is the mod I talked to was very confusing. Can someone please clarify this for me?
1. Where can I discuss the concept of alternate ladders in general?
I'm not talking about the Solgaleo ladder. I'm talking about the idea of seperate ladders as a whole and the past discussion that were had around that. Where can we talk about this?
2. What mechanics can we actually discuss in the main OU thread when it comes to tiering action?
I ask because, with all the 30+ mons and maybe counting we have banned, perhaps a different approach to find balance would be a better idea. So this led me to want to discuss mechanics. Tera is apparently off limits. Except sometimes it isn't? I don't even know. Does the Tera talk include Tera Blast, too? Or can that be separated out as distinct? What about other mechanics. Is that allowed anymore? All I'll say is the mod I talked to was very confusing. Can someone please clarify this for me?
This was initially allowed in Metagame Discussion, but it became pretty clear that every time we allowed it, 99% of the details went above the heads of posters and quality of discussion was lackluster + it really is not a metagame topic so much as a policy one, so there is no public discussion of it allowed now. Our stance on it is mostly firm, but reach out to me if you want to discuss it more and I can share any convos with the council + respond appropriately.
Ban of Tera outright is disallowed, discussion of Tera Blast is allowed (within reason). For what it's worth, this is outlined here, too.
Thank you so much for clarifying. I will likely reach out to you at some point in the future about the idea of separate ladders, but it isn't a priority for now.
What are some benchmarks for +1 Great Tusk to warrant the use of Booster Energy over other items like Leftovers for longevity? Or is it for giving it a cleanup potential in fast paced games with Rapid Spin?
+1 great tusk outruns the entire tier barring DoS, which is nice for bulk up sets that can't fit rapid spin, as well as like you said, to give it more opportunities to spin in faster games. It's not a clear cut thing tho, on HO and many offenses you want booster for these reasons, but the drop in power is noticeable, so typically BO and Balance strucutres will choose one of boots, rocky helmet, or lefties.
What's the usual spread for Nasty Plot/Calm Mind Fezandipiti? I've been interested on making a team with it
there isn't really a "usual spread" for Fezandipiti because it isn't used very often in OU, but that means you can play around with the stats and come up with your own! I've run setup Fez before; mine was enough speed for Kyurem so about 320 speed, max HP, and dump into special attack. You could also go just faster than Landorus to squeeze out more EVs into other stats. I think Fez has definitely be faster than Great Tusk and Co., in order avoid getting revenge killed so easily. I would recommend pulling up the damage calculator and just tweaking EVs until you hit something you like. With a mon like Fez, you do want to make sure that you're reaching reasonable damage ranges at +2. The worst thing that could happen is hitting Nasty Plot and failing to take out what's in front of you!
How are you supposed to consistently beat Kingambit with the double ghost spike stack sample team? The ghosts and darkrai can't do much to it unless you pop tera early game with ghold and spam make it rain (which is not always feasible), clef can get some chip, but having to preserve both clefable's health and dragonite's multiscale to have a shot at beating it in the end game is usually not realistic, especially against dark spam teams. Tricking the scarf onto it is not a consistent strategy - anyone who knows the team won't always switch Kingambit directly into ghold, and if you get the trick turn wrong, that is no longer an option. Gambit also doesn't always mind being tricked a scarf - if it is max speed, it outspeeds both dnite and clef after trick, so it can solo most of the team with that.
The team in general seems to have a really high skill floor - red card Lu is better on more fast paced HO or BO teams because its job is to get hazards up, shuffle stuff around and get some chip, but the Darkrai set is better suited for long games (as is CM Clefable.) I also am not sure what does that Clef set up in front of apart from really passive stall mons, defensive gliscor, and Garg because of the lack of bulk investment, especially given how offensive this meta is. Even stuff like defensive zapdos does a shit ton to it with hurricane, meaning you have to pray for misses/not getting crit while you try to set up and heal up (and that's assuming you haven't gone for tera water, in which case you can't set up in front of Zap.)
The team in general seems to have a really high skill floor - red card Lu is better on more fast paced HO or BO teams because its job is to get hazards up, shuffle stuff around and get some chip, but the Darkrai set is better suited for long games (as is CM Clefable.) I also am not sure what does that Clef set up in front of apart from really passive stall mons, defensive gliscor, and Garg because of the lack of bulk investment, especially given how offensive this meta is. Even stuff like defensive zapdos does a shit ton to it with hurricane, meaning you have to pray for misses/not getting crit while you try to set up and heal up (and that's assuming you haven't gone for tera water, in which case you can't set up in front of Zap.)
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Are you suggesting Pikachu is not a terrifying meta threat? Because if that's the case we have a problem on our hands.
Can someone explain why some defensive mons run 248 HP and others 252? I can understand in the case of SR weak mons like Zapdos and mons like Corviknight whose at 252 HP investment just happens to reach a multiple of 125.
What about Clodsire and Toxapex, who do not hit a SR number, and seems like they want to hit a even number for more recovery for Recovery, and yet their analyses got for 248?
What about Clodsire and Toxapex, who do not hit a SR number, and seems like they want to hit a even number for more recovery for Recovery, and yet their analyses got for 248?
It's because of how the game handles rounding. On occasion 248hp puts a benchmark to minimize damage from burn, poison, etc and in some there is no difference between 248 and 252 hp so you'll take the extra stat point
For the clod/pex points specifically, it's because they're predominately stallmons (and slow ones at that), so they'll almost always be under a damaging status. Especially after the recover nerf, they get far more value from the status damage reduction than the bonus from recover. EVing for recover is only gonna give you 8 extra hp max while status damage nets much more than 8.
Even with 252 HP, 6.25% from Burn and SR (for Clod) gets rounded down, 12.5% and 18.75% from SR (for Pex) and Spikes gets rounded down. 25% from Spikes rounds up but that doesn't prevent Pecharunt or Tyranitar, who also rounds up with 25% Spikes from running 252 HP.
It seems that 248 HP is not really rounding anything down special for them, so why not just run 252 HP which nets 1 more point of HP from using Recover?
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Ah, I found the problem in my calculation. I was accidentally dividing their HP values by 12.5, 6.25 etc instead of 8 and 16. Now I see which numbers get rounded down
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