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Tournaments ADVPL VI Format Discussion
- Thread starter goldmason
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The format is great as is. I could get behind a few changes depending on the support they get, but im extremely against draft in this tournament given It usually drags tours a lot and i dont see enough support to justify It. DOU shouldnt get added back either imo - if we are gonna make any changes at all i think its trolling to not go for an OU slot + ZU/UUBL.
Given I've recently stepped forward as ADV ZUTL in the past year, I would like to advocate my points on why I believe ADV ZU should feature in ADVPL this year.
First of all, developments for ADV ZU have continued to grow in 2025. We have started to see greater team tournament presence with the recent inclusion of ZUPL, cementing it as a serious fixture of ZU. Furthermore, ADV ZU is generally considered relatively popular compared to other ADV and ZU tiers alike, boasting the 2nd biggest turnout in ZU Classic (56) and the 3rd largest turnout in ADV Grand Slam (47), all while factoring in that both tournaments were being held simultaneously. The inaugural ADVLTPL held last year provided ADV ZU with the second-highest number of signups, totaling 62 players who were interested in playing the tier.
Furthermore, there is a very dedicated player base that actively wants to see ADV ZU grow. Players like Baoba, Melninja, BP, Plznostep, Joaf, Czim, and Hachimaki, to name some examples, have been a core part of our community throughout our development in the last couple of years, with some of those players being significant individuals in terms of their overall ADV presence. By including ZU in this year's ADVPL, it rewards the efforts everyone has been putting in to ensure this tier is both played and developed at a high standard.
Regarding where I would put ADV ZU, I think it should take the place of ADV OU4 (one of the Bo1 spots). The quality of games in ADV ZU is stronger compared to OU4, in my opinion. While it is always nice to acknowledge the players who actively participate in their respective metagames, I believe three slots, including a Bo3, are more than enough to showcase that. Furthermore, while ADV ZU is relatively easy to pick up, there is a high skill ceiling, which grants the potential for really exciting games to occur. Additionally, it would be illogical to remove other tiers, such as RU, LC, and especially PU, because each of those tiers remains to have a sizable player base of its own, and doing so would undermine their contributions to ADV altogether. Read the update part now that it is confirmed that there will be 12 slots.
I would consider ADV to be one of my first true homes on Smogon. The ADV ZU spotlight tour was my second tour I ever signed up for, and it would mean a lot to me if ADV ZU could finally get the recognition it deserves and establish itself as a mainstay in ADVPL. Thank you for your time.
Update: Just a couple of other things I wanted to bring up after reading through this thread again.
- I wasn't completely aware of the demand for 12 slots as I didn't think the arguments were significant enough for it, but I do resonate with a lot of points Violet River made in her post and after a small back and forward on Discord, I thought I would include a section for it. If we were I would probably look to keep the OU4, and then include ZU alongside any combination of OU5 Bo3, UUBL, DOU, ORRE, or Draft. I don't have a strong opinion on that 12th slot, but I do think ADV being one of the largest communities of the site should look to celebrate the wide spectrum of tiers and high standard of gaming that is on display, and expanding the amount of slots ADVPL has would be a great way of presenting that.
- If in the event having to cover for 8 seperate tiers is too much of a hassle, I do believe as with what Zac mentioned that we could entertain the idea of allowing 3 managers to alleviate some of the workload that might go into drafting or supporting slots.
First of all, developments for ADV ZU have continued to grow in 2025. We have started to see greater team tournament presence with the recent inclusion of ZUPL, cementing it as a serious fixture of ZU. Furthermore, ADV ZU is generally considered relatively popular compared to other ADV and ZU tiers alike, boasting the 2nd biggest turnout in ZU Classic (56) and the 3rd largest turnout in ADV Grand Slam (47), all while factoring in that both tournaments were being held simultaneously. The inaugural ADVLTPL held last year provided ADV ZU with the second-highest number of signups, totaling 62 players who were interested in playing the tier.
ADV Ubers - 68 signups
ADV UUBL - 61 signups
ADV UU - 60 signups
ADV RU - 55 signups
ADV NU - 60 signups
ADV PU - 48 signups
ADV ZU - 62 signups
ADV LC - 61 signups
ADV DOU - 50 signups
ORRE Colosseum - 47 signups
Source: ADVLTPL Signups
ADV UUBL - 61 signups
ADV UU - 60 signups
ADV RU - 55 signups
ADV NU - 60 signups
ADV PU - 48 signups
ADV ZU - 62 signups
ADV LC - 61 signups
ADV DOU - 50 signups
ORRE Colosseum - 47 signups
Source: ADVLTPL Signups
Furthermore, there is a very dedicated player base that actively wants to see ADV ZU grow. Players like Baoba, Melninja, BP, Plznostep, Joaf, Czim, and Hachimaki, to name some examples, have been a core part of our community throughout our development in the last couple of years, with some of those players being significant individuals in terms of their overall ADV presence. By including ZU in this year's ADVPL, it rewards the efforts everyone has been putting in to ensure this tier is both played and developed at a high standard.
I would consider ADV to be one of my first true homes on Smogon. The ADV ZU spotlight tour was my second tour I ever signed up for, and it would mean a lot to me if ADV ZU could finally get the recognition it deserves and establish itself as a mainstay in ADVPL. Thank you for your time.
Update: Just a couple of other things I wanted to bring up after reading through this thread again.
- I wasn't completely aware of the demand for 12 slots as I didn't think the arguments were significant enough for it, but I do resonate with a lot of points Violet River made in her post and after a small back and forward on Discord, I thought I would include a section for it. If we were I would probably look to keep the OU4, and then include ZU alongside any combination of OU5 Bo3, UUBL, DOU, ORRE, or Draft. I don't have a strong opinion on that 12th slot, but I do think ADV being one of the largest communities of the site should look to celebrate the wide spectrum of tiers and high standard of gaming that is on display, and expanding the amount of slots ADVPL has would be a great way of presenting that.
- If in the event having to cover for 8 seperate tiers is too much of a hassle, I do believe as with what Zac mentioned that we could entertain the idea of allowing 3 managers to alleviate some of the workload that might go into drafting or supporting slots.
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After reading the reactions here and on Discord, it seems clear that almost everyone supports increasing to 12, and that one of the two new slots should be for OU. This also means the other one wouldn’t be for DOU/ORRE, since people like them but only as a package or not at all. So I suppose that spot would go to ZU (in my opinion, they deserve it after ADVPLT, both because of the number of sign-ups and the games), Draft (another cool option, since Draft is fun and a good way to bring communities together during a tournament), or UUBL
I would also like to point out that if the issue with Doubles is “both or none,” then they shouldn’t be competing for a single slot. The format should be decided without taking them into account first, and only afterwards should it be determined whether to add two more slots for them (in this year case, increasing from 12 to 14)
I would also like to point out that if the issue with Doubles is “both or none,” then they shouldn’t be competing for a single slot. The format should be decided without taking them into account first, and only afterwards should it be determined whether to add two more slots for them (in this year case, increasing from 12 to 14)
I honestly like 14 slots with Doubles as well. Doubles is interesting and if there are 2 slots (orre, dou) then a lot of the issues with 1 slot doubles are diminished and I think doubles likely has a very big playerbase. That said it feels too happy so we shouldn't do it as ppl wud get all they want and that's not good. I believe we shud axe lower tiers because it makes a lot of ppl unhappy. Especially tiers like RU, UU and NU.
I also support 3rd manager. It should be done.
I also support 3rd manager. It should be done.
gm.
ADV mods have talked a bit and decided on a few things:
- ADVPL VI will have 12 slots.
- One of the new slots will be ADV OU.
- The other slot is open currently.
Biggest thing we want further input on is whether the new ADV OU slot should be Bo3, and continued discourse on the other open slot.
Additionally, speaking as Draft staff, we appreciate the support for it but ADV Draft will not be included in ADVPL VI. ADV Draft staff is not quite ready for it to be on Smogon, as has previously been discussed with many of the people who have advocated for it here, and it has functionally very little Smogon presence by design at the moment. Discussion should be focused towards the other metas mentioned in this thread.
Lastly, I would like to formally announce that ADVLTL will be returning this year, and also will be expanding to 12 slots. There will be a formal format discussion on ADVLTL in the future; it is set to have player signups in July.
Thank you everyone for all of your interest in ADVPL VI thus far! Looking forward to reading any of the additional replies.
ADV mods have talked a bit and decided on a few things:
- ADVPL VI will have 12 slots.
- One of the new slots will be ADV OU.
- The other slot is open currently.
Biggest thing we want further input on is whether the new ADV OU slot should be Bo3, and continued discourse on the other open slot.
Additionally, speaking as Draft staff, we appreciate the support for it but ADV Draft will not be included in ADVPL VI. ADV Draft staff is not quite ready for it to be on Smogon, as has previously been discussed with many of the people who have advocated for it here, and it has functionally very little Smogon presence by design at the moment. Discussion should be focused towards the other metas mentioned in this thread.
Lastly, I would like to formally announce that ADVLTL will be returning this year, and also will be expanding to 12 slots. There will be a formal format discussion on ADVLTL in the future; it is set to have player signups in July.
Thank you everyone for all of your interest in ADVPL VI thus far! Looking forward to reading any of the additional replies.
Free UUBL.
I wouldn't be annoyed in any way if ZU made it in, but more UUBL is the most hype outcome.
Speaking as a manager a couple years ago, it was stressful trying to lock in a player at draft for the OU Bo3 slot. Having two seems like a nightmare from a drafting perspective - you really ideally want an elite player in that slot and I’m just not sure enough sign up to do it for 2 Bo3 slots. And besides, people can always gentlemen’s to Bo3 from a Bo1 slot in all those slots.
We could get into a whole fight about bo1 vs bo3 but it never leads anywhere ( i personally think the bo1 arguments are bs).
So I argue the following:
Bo1 already has 3 slots.
Bo3 has 1 slot.
Bo3 gang should get another slot to push the slot count closer to our sworn enemies Bo1 gang. This is fair
So I argue the following:
Bo1 already has 3 slots.
Bo3 has 1 slot.
Bo3 gang should get another slot to push the slot count closer to our sworn enemies Bo1 gang. This is fair
don't really know any of the lower tiers well enough to have a proper opinion on them, but i'd like for the new OU slot to be bo3. teams are incentivized to put their stronger players in the bo3 slots, so it's more likely we get a higher volume of exciting pairings, which was one of my concerns with adding an OU slot in the first place. ADV OU bo3s also are a lot more interesting from a spectator point of view, and meaningfully reduce the tier's inherent high variance, both in matchups and RNG. for an exciting and competitive tour, another bo3 slot is a no-brainer to me.
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Don't wanna yap without prerequisite qualification but I think a Bo3 would be best. Mantis does bring up a valid point, but I think it'd be fine and potentially "self-healing" - allowing "new talent" to gravitate towards a Bo1 slot.
I am biased towards UUBL but I would not be annoyed if ZU got a slot. Again, my biggest "reason" for UUBL getting a slot is that ADV's UUBL is a very unique case among all of Smogon. For that reason, I think it'd both celebratory of ADV's identity to include it, as well as nice to give some time in the spotlight to a tier without a tier, so to speak.
I am biased towards UUBL but I would not be annoyed if ZU got a slot. Again, my biggest "reason" for UUBL getting a slot is that ADV's UUBL is a very unique case among all of Smogon. For that reason, I think it'd both celebratory of ADV's identity to include it, as well as nice to give some time in the spotlight to a tier without a tier, so to speak.
Vouching for ZU. Ever since the gold rush tournament back in 2024, it has been one of my favorite tiers, so I feel inclined to support it here, even if I’m not a well known player.
To reiterate what Zpice said, the tier is quite accessible from a newcomer’s perspective, but there is also plenty of room for creative building and skill expression, and as such, entertaining games — which PL would be likely to bring. By introducing it to a large tour like ADVPL, I feel that the tier would only continue to develop for the better, both in terms of player base and the metagame itself. Despite being a low tier, it has a good foundation of players to back it up and Zpice showed it with the numbers, and it would be nice to see ZU get representation on this level to prove that it can be a good addition.
Honorable mention to UUBL, also a very fun tier with a good community, I just am not nearly as involved there.
To reiterate what Zpice said, the tier is quite accessible from a newcomer’s perspective, but there is also plenty of room for creative building and skill expression, and as such, entertaining games — which PL would be likely to bring. By introducing it to a large tour like ADVPL, I feel that the tier would only continue to develop for the better, both in terms of player base and the metagame itself. Despite being a low tier, it has a good foundation of players to back it up and Zpice showed it with the numbers, and it would be nice to see ZU get representation on this level to prove that it can be a good addition.
Honorable mention to UUBL, also a very fun tier with a good community, I just am not nearly as involved there.
ZU has been on the fringe of inclusion for years, now that we expand ADVPL it would be a kick in the teeth to have any other format over it. I personally don't support another OU Bo3 -> one downside to expansion is that it takes more prep work every week, which isn't a huge deal if its a bo1 slot, but if its a bo3 slot it does unironically have a negative impact.
Been involved with adv zu to some degree for a few years(way back when pidgeotto and cyndaquil were good) and i can promise of the tiers considered it has the most history and most reliable fan base by a good margin.
Would be a shame to see it snubbed here considering the increase in size.
Would be a shame to see it snubbed here considering the increase in size.
There's also an argument to be made that bo3 actually takes less prep than bo1, or at least only similar amounts. Because in bo1 a single game decides the matchup, people tend to try to get the perfect team vs a given opponent, often building something very specific that requires a lot of testing and analysis of the opponent's tendencies in great detail. On the other hand, in a bo3 I believe most people tend to just bring 3 solid teams that are generally good into the opponent's tendencies, because there will be more variance across 3 games anyways and a broader range of teams needs to be covered. "Loading good teams", to dumb down the point I just made, often means taking a well known team or scouring a dump and then potentially making a few minor changes, which arguably does not take as much effort and time as building the perfect team from scratch for a bo1 does.
Given this, I believe prep time should at least not be used as an argument for bo1.
I personally prefer bo3 just because I like the format. Arguments for bo3 include the fact that there are already more bo1 slots as fj2k mentioned, that a bo3 reduces the effects of luck on a series, and potentially, that bo3 games tend to be more similar to ladder games for the prep reasons mentioned above. This last point is only an argument for bo3 if it is also accepted that tour games and ladder games should be similar in character, which not everyone believes.
I think the whole bo3 takes less time for prep is a logical fallacy. Anyone who is really trying to win is going to prep just as hard for all 3 teams in an important bo3 MU in a team tour setting. I've been there before thinking I won't prep as much and just bring "good teams" but then end up spending the exact same amount of time on all 3 anyways for 3x the effort. Doesn't mean everyone does that but I just don't think people saying this realize that many players do in fact put in maximum effort for all 3 teams in a Bo3 setting.
That being said if people prefer Bo3 because it's just a preferred format that's probably fine, but I wouldn't try saying it's less prep/work because it usually is not. At best you put it in the same effort for at least one team, at worst you are putting maximum effort in all 3.
prep time for an individual? sure. if i am prepping my teammate it is just 100% easier to build them one team than three. i would be in favor of the slot being bo1.
I like this format of tiers, but i feel that there much adv ou... and an adv ou bo3, maybe put 2 adv ou and 2 adv bo3 was more interesting for feel not is boring view 3 games adv of same format, i guess that the rest is fine.
Some that it.
ADV Ubers
ADV OU x2
ADV OU BO3 x2
ADV UU
ADV RU
ADV NU
ADV PU
ADV LC
The first argument made here only works if it reffers to the player making their own prep. If the player has 10 hours to prep per week, they can use the same ammount of time to prep for both formats, but the bo1 team will go through way more testing or more practice, increasing the chances that the player can figure out more team optimizations. However, in bo3 tours, reusing or using half baked concepts are a necessity due to the player not having enough time to make 3 "bo1 quality teams" in one week. Of course, this depends from player to player and has a lot of variance even if you keep track of the same player stats over multiple tours.
When the prep is being made for a teammate, the dynamic changes drastically. Now, the player has to take care of their slot and another players slots in the same 10 hours that they had before. In all fairness, in that scenario the player most likely wont test the team or concept that they pass to another player. However, even without the testing part, passing 3 concepts or teams in fact take MORE time then passing one, so it will make their OWN prep time shorter. This is very significant, because usually the most competent player is slotted in the bo3 slot, and the most competent player often has the responsability of taking care of others preps or at least giving them headers. If we add another bo3 slot, either the bo3 slot will have less time to do its own preparation, because it will be stuck more time helping the other bo3 slot, or the other slots wont recieve as much help and will not have the full experience of having support from an experienced player.
Another bo3 slot, in my opinion, would only be valid if we had enough signups of experienced players to fill all 16 bo3 slots. Of course, being "competent", "experienced", "proven", etc is subjective, but its important to consider if the ammount of sign ups is enough for this proposition.
Last season i had the opportunity to play in the bo3 slot, and i decided it wasnt a good idea right after the first week. I was overwhelmed with my teammates preparations (since we had a lot of players that cant build) and couldnt prepare properly for my best of 3 match against Hclat. I believe that, if i played best of 1 that week against the same opponent, i wouldve had a better shot at winning partially because i could make a better team for the matchup and study his replays with more caution. Some could say that the better strategy mightve been to draft more self sufficient players or another prepper, but even with most of the ou prep being done by myself, we managed to win the tour and get multiple positive scores in ou. I doubt that the team wouldve had the same results if i kept playing bo3 and took less time to help my teammates to focus on my run.
With that in mind, id preffer if the new ou slot would adhere to the bo1 format.
Gm.
The format for ADVPL VI will be:
ADV Ubers
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU BO3
ADV UU
ADV RU
ADV NU
ADV PU
ADV ZU
ADV LC
There will only be 2 manager slots per team. 150k credits for 12 starters and 3 subs.
We will also allow gentleman's agreements very similar to how we did last year, including for ADV OU Bo1 slots.
Manager signups up shortly.
The format for ADVPL VI will be:
ADV Ubers
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU BO3
ADV UU
ADV RU
ADV NU
ADV PU
ADV ZU
ADV LC
There will only be 2 manager slots per team. 150k credits for 12 starters and 3 subs.
We will also allow gentleman's agreements very similar to how we did last year, including for ADV OU Bo1 slots.
Manager signups up shortly.
- Status