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Tournaments ADVPL VI Format Discussion
- Thread starter goldmason
- Start date
I think a better alternative would be draft twice, pick one per week (blindly). I didn't mention it because I didn't think it would get enough traction but as someone who has hosted such tournaments before I think even one draft would be better than a Callous format (which was more like pick and ban in practice).
If such a format were to be greenlit, my preferences would be (in order):
Draft two, pick one (worked in the invitational so it has precedent, needed a neutral third party for it to be accomplished)
Draft one (the standard for individuals, which makes some sense when it's one slot)
Pick and ban
I'm just gonna drop this here, no reason
In terms of activity, I'd also like to say that the UUBL discord probably has more messages on average than almost all the rest of the lower tiers combined.
As an aside, separate from the above, I agree with others that for sure we don't drop ou slots for anything in PL (and it would be kinda cringe to drop another tier for something else as well). Adding slots would be better
In terms of activity, I'd also like to say that the UUBL discord probably has more messages on average than almost all the rest of the lower tiers combined.
As an aside, separate from the above, I agree with others that for sure we don't drop ou slots for anything in PL (and it would be kinda cringe to drop another tier for something else as well). Adding slots would be better
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No opinions to offer on other tiers position in the tour, but just wanted to contribute Adv PU is currently THE most played oldgen in PUCL above all other gens 8-1, very likely to finish among the top few gens by the end, and some random discord poll can't speak against that. Adv PU is a well liked tier that rewards knowledge and investment, consistently outputs quality games and is really fun to build in. Only more and more people have been realising that.
I also think the idea of Advpl barely drafting active PU players to start last year and then ditching it next year would be pretty dumb and insulting. As the player who acted as an undrafted support for iirc 4 separate teams so that yall could have functioning games in the tier, perhaps there could be some reflection on how some people start to dismiss PU before they've even looked into it. Perhaps there's a reason some of us don't see ur discord polls.
Whatever is done with the format, PU should stay.
I also think the idea of Advpl barely drafting active PU players to start last year and then ditching it next year would be pretty dumb and insulting. As the player who acted as an undrafted support for iirc 4 separate teams so that yall could have functioning games in the tier, perhaps there could be some reflection on how some people start to dismiss PU before they've even looked into it. Perhaps there's a reason some of us don't see ur discord polls.
Whatever is done with the format, PU should stay.
If people are wanting to add formats to the tour, why not just make it a 12 slot tour and add 2 new formats? I think that'd be a better solution than replacing anything already here
Fwiw I am 99% certain Erfder dropped the poll to shout out UUBL being #1, not a shot a PU. Very unlikely for PU to be cut from the tour.
Understood and thanks for the reassurance, I had seen the poll presented outside of the forum in an argument against PU so I had jumped on the opportunity to counteract it when it came up despite that post being about UUBL
I was not suggesting deletion of pu haha, just that UUBL can show up when called. Because it's an "unofficial" tier it's often overlooked and just wanted to show that it has support, not trying to comment on the lack of it elsewhere in that poll
ADV is by far the oldgen most capable of producing a successful 12 slot 8 team tour. Not saying other oldgens cannot do it, but clearly ADV had the best capabilities to try it out and see how it goes. 5/12 OU representation seems ideal (4/12 is not it), and can add one more low tier to round it out. No opinion on which one, but definitely not necessary to cut anything.
I really don't want to see a DOU vs. Orre debate; zee's post in the ADVLTPL format discussion I think really highlights how both formats are different enough to warrant inclusion in the same team tournament and how in a team tournament situation having both allows for teammates to work together rather than having just one doubles player out on an island without proper team support. I think having both formats in ADVLTPL was healthy for both communities and the camaraderie of a team league.
Orre as a separate community from Smogon would be able to be added as a format without cannibalizing the player pool of other formats and would get enough signups; if it's the same with DOU (I'm not sure how many of the top DOU players also play the other formats) then I think if there's an interest in adding doubles to ADVPL then going up to 12 format slots should be achievable without watering down the formats used for the first ten slots. And I think that having both DOU and ORRE for LTPL didn't negatively affect the other tiers.
So if 10 slots are doable, I think 12 slots to add in doubles formats are doable and healthier than doing just one doubles slot if there's an interest in adding doubles into ADVPL.
Orre as a separate community from Smogon would be able to be added as a format without cannibalizing the player pool of other formats and would get enough signups; if it's the same with DOU (I'm not sure how many of the top DOU players also play the other formats) then I think if there's an interest in adding doubles to ADVPL then going up to 12 format slots should be achievable without watering down the formats used for the first ten slots. And I think that having both DOU and ORRE for LTPL didn't negatively affect the other tiers.
So if 10 slots are doable, I think 12 slots to add in doubles formats are doable and healthier than doing just one doubles slot if there's an interest in adding doubles into ADVPL.
I would like to propose replacing the least popular tiers with 3 flex slots so we can give the more popular tiers a chance to be slotted, as well as more flexibility in team construction. I’d suggest the flex slots to be reserved for RU, PU, UUBL, DOU, LC, ZU.
This should be a decent middle ground for the community, while maintaining 10 slots, and allowing less draft constraints.
Edit: I also think upping to 12 slots would be more than doable. Anyone saying this would ruin the prestige of the tour simply doesn’t know ball.
This should be a decent middle ground for the community, while maintaining 10 slots, and allowing less draft constraints.
Edit: I also think upping to 12 slots would be more than doable. Anyone saying this would ruin the prestige of the tour simply doesn’t know ball.
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I agree with this based on the size of the playerbase.
Adding UUBL and either 1 more OU slot or Orre would be my ideal format.
If there's worries about manager load, entertain the third manager.
Quick vouch for ADV ZU. It’s gained a lot of popularity, has a highly competitive player base, and is continuing to see new developments even as we speak in the first edition of ZUCL. Based on support for other ADV tiers in the thread, my opinion is that the best format would be moving to 12 slots instead of 10, with ADV ZU and one of UUBL/OU getting the twelfth slot. I’m excited to see how this tour develops, I’ve always enjoyed looking at ADV’s various metagame developments across tiers!
I think the current number of OU slots is correct. while some games last year were of questionable quality, I think 4 OU slots gives managers enough room to take chances on promising up-and-comers and give them a chance to play. I think it's important that managers aren't just incentivized to draft Names as year after year we've seen this tour be an important early step in the development of many strong OU players, and it gives fresh faces an opportunity to branch out beyond the mushi/revival bubble.
I certainly wouldn't add another slot; while I think the tier's playerbase has gotten bigger lately, I still think the average game's quality would decline significantly with an additional OU slot. Last ADVPL, most new players that I thought deserved a shot were picked up as low-end starters or subs (with a few exceptions). I think four OU slots strikes a good enough balance between maintaining the tour's prestige and giving new talent adequate opportunities. an additional slot would bring us to 40 OU players + subs, and i'm not confident that the community can provide enough players while maintaining good game quality.
most active new faces can still get a triyearly ADV OU team tour experience in mushi league, and with all the circuit and revival individuals, i don't think we're lacking in lower barrier to entry competitions. it helps that every year at least a few ADVPL managers are tuned into mushi league and revival tours, so good performance there can certainly lead to getting picked up for ADVPL. i'd rather players take the necessary time to hone their skills in smaller tours and move onto ADVPL when they've reached a certain level as opposed to pushing undercooked talent onto a stage they might not yet be ready for.
I certainly wouldn't add another slot; while I think the tier's playerbase has gotten bigger lately, I still think the average game's quality would decline significantly with an additional OU slot. Last ADVPL, most new players that I thought deserved a shot were picked up as low-end starters or subs (with a few exceptions). I think four OU slots strikes a good enough balance between maintaining the tour's prestige and giving new talent adequate opportunities. an additional slot would bring us to 40 OU players + subs, and i'm not confident that the community can provide enough players while maintaining good game quality.
most active new faces can still get a triyearly ADV OU team tour experience in mushi league, and with all the circuit and revival individuals, i don't think we're lacking in lower barrier to entry competitions. it helps that every year at least a few ADVPL managers are tuned into mushi league and revival tours, so good performance there can certainly lead to getting picked up for ADVPL. i'd rather players take the necessary time to hone their skills in smaller tours and move onto ADVPL when they've reached a certain level as opposed to pushing undercooked talent onto a stage they might not yet be ready for.
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I'd like to give my own input that I would really like to see 12 slots with one extra OU and one extra LT (UUBL and ZU seem to be the popular options). I think theres a lot of qualified players in the ADV sphere, both in OU and in lower tiers, and believe that there being more slots is good. For Draft, I think the format can and should be refined further for team tours such as this, but would be open to more on that next year. One nice benefit of draft is that a week also provides time for everyone to write PRs or anything else they'd like to do if it is included, but again, I'd push against that for this year personally and look at the logistics for it next year instead, board and double draft or single draft format included.
Another point in favor of an extra OU slot + UUBL slot: Registeel's ascension to OU post-SPL is almost completely assured. This will likely be our last chance to play UUBL with Senor Aura in it.
*ahem* keep the format as is. That is all!