Sleep Clause Mod is a joke, incomparable to the necessary "6v6 Mod". If sleep is unbanned it has to be fully unbanned.
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Metagame Champions OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
Only game I've lost on BSS so far has been to mega Gyarados i just hit ultra ball tier 4. Having only three pokemon available makes checking things difficult turn one dragon dance can be devastating I guess I'll have to always bring a dedicated Gyarados check if they have it available. I don't have a good check in my intentory currently so I'm counting on scarf sneasler and dragonites extreme speed at the moment.hiya, for those who don't know me, I am a BSS main and have been roped into helping with this tier by dhelmise
Over the day and change since Champions release I have played quite a bit of BSS, and I've reached max rank on the singles ladder. Given that BSS and Champions OU will have significantly more overlap than prior generations I wanted to share my thoughts on a few of the anticipated problem children for the COU metagame.
As of writing this I am hovering around 1800 elo on the BSS ladder in champions, you can see the general lineup I am using in the attached imageView attachment 822504
with that out of the way, here are my takes on some of the more divisive pokes
- Just gonna get my hottest take out of the way right off the bat, I do not think this guy is too big of an issue. Yeah yeah Stag is stupid etc but honestly, I've found it to be relatively tame so far. Its speed tier is still good but nowhere near what it was back in its hayday and new additions like Dragapult can make quick work of it. That's not to say MGar isn't supremely threatening. I still believe it to be far in a way the most consistent and best mega available currently and Nasty Plot variants are some of the most punishing sets around. I believe this will get looked at, and I think it should, but I remain to be convinced that it will be a slam dunk ban.
- Heard a lot of people talking about how this guy will be insane with hazard control options being so limited and I half agree. Its a great pokemon and Ceaseless Edge is phenomenal pressure with both the damage and spike setting. I find it not quite as impactful as one would think, though. Its fantastic, don't get me wrong, but at least in the context of BSS I find it hard to consistently justify. Perhaps this will change when you are allowed to use your entire team at all times though.
- It's like, fine I guess. Its strong, its fast, Dire Claw is insane, albeit less so given the nerf. I have tried it out a couple times and while it does put in good work it is far from consistent. Getting a Swords Dance up is pretty difficult a lot of the time and activating Unburden can be a hassle as well. The most consistent method is Close Combat with White Herb, but this has a pretty consistent foil in just having a Ghost-type to block the incoming CC. Aegislash in particular gives negative fucks about Sneasler, and while Gengar is more readily threatened by non Throat Chop moves it still isn't going to instantly fold the vast majority of the time. Sneasler is also very vulnerable to being burned, which will completely ruin it. It's not too hard to threaten a burn either with pokes like Dragapult, Arcanine, and Gengar being very solid picks.
- Now this is what I expect to actually be a problem child. Throughout my time playing Champions, most of my losses and some of my most difficult games have been when this guy is present. Its got Intimidate in its base form to make setting up easier, and its STAB combination in tandem with a very basic coverage option like Earthquake make it extremely difficult for tons of teams to stand up to. The vast majority of its consistent checks are but one flinch away from being completely helpless, and while I don't believe it to be unmanageable I do find it to be probably the most difficult thing to naturally prepare for currently.
Special mention totoo, this ability is absolutely insane. If you directly damage this guy at all, you're burned. I don't think I need to go into detail why that is such a bananas ability to have, its stats will likely hold it back from being too much but I can see a lot of frustration coming from this guy and what it can do.
I was running BSS as all balance or offense but added calm unaware CM clef to just not have much issues with special attackers I'd run dozo if he was available too
Honestly champions is the most disappointing game in Pokemon ever in my personal opinion
I didn't know it got banned wow I guess I missed that
I'll repeat: they are not banned. THEY ARE NOT BANNED. Quick Claw and Quick Draw are not banned in SV OU.
Lol make sense i can't miss sv ou ban i always been there
I think Mega Gengar is gonna be too much. It's not about it as much as what it enables. I was using it on the side server and tried running some stall(it's kinda subpar because of how much resources you need on your team to handle Mega Starmie, especially on rain) and it can either get rid of threats to your team or if you run it on an offensive team, gets rid of tanks stopping your other mons from sweeping.hiya, for those who don't know me, I am a BSS main and have been roped into helping with this tier by dhelmise
Over the day and change since Champions release I have played quite a bit of BSS, and I've reached max rank on the singles ladder. Given that BSS and Champions OU will have significantly more overlap than prior generations I wanted to share my thoughts on a few of the anticipated problem children for the COU metagame.
As of writing this I am hovering around 1800 elo on the BSS ladder in champions, you can see the general lineup I am using in the attached imageView attachment 822504
with that out of the way, here are my takes on some of the more divisive pokes
Special mention to
Like a couple matches I had against Mega Starmie rain, I used it to trap not only Starmie and kill it with shadow ball, but also sub stalled Archaludon with perish song and the rest of the team couldn't handle my stall core. It's undoubtedly an unhealthy presence.
I’m looking forward to trying out all of the mons before banning any of them. The beginning of a new format is always my favorite because everything is on the table. The leadership here tends to fix issues and problematic Pokemon quickly, but it’s always nice to have every option available initially just to test the waters. Much less of a headache than convincing people down the line to retest, suspect, or unban things.
I fully agree with philosophy, sans the minor caveat that we should probably save ourselves some time by pre-emptively nuking mega gengar lol
I'll be looking forward to how the meta is shaped regardless.
i personally think sleep should be tried—not a definite answer to the discussion.
i see as well that this is the popular opinion.
with mega gengar being the fastest sleep user, it makes me wonder jsut how much sleep will actualy be utilized -> you have better odds dismantling an entire HO team alone with just WoW + Shadow Ball, i don’t see sleep having much usage similar to how it gets little usage in a format like natdex that’s much bigger that allows it.
i see as well that this is the popular opinion.
with mega gengar being the fastest sleep user, it makes me wonder jsut how much sleep will actualy be utilized -> you have better odds dismantling an entire HO team alone with just WoW + Shadow Ball, i don’t see sleep having much usage similar to how it gets little usage in a format like natdex that’s much bigger that allows it.
To add onto what i’ve said already, Lum Berry will be meta now, someone tell me how gengar will manage after dnite pops a lum berry ddance after a willowisp then equakes next turn
It's a bug and likely to be fixed soon. No need to implement this.
Haze doesn't heal, it's purely a visual bug, and yeah it's getting fixed anyways. Also this game was mostly made by ILCA
Okay so thinking about it, fat breakers who check a bunch of stuff are somewhat limited in this meta, we got mega chesnaught, gambit and primarina as the most notable ones off the top of my head. (I guess palafin too, but thank god mega chesnaught gives it a hard time.)
BSS meta keep in mind won't be reflective of this 6v6 meta, but yes primarina is very good across all formats in champions rn, singles and doubles alike
BSS and COU metas will have a fair bit of crossover this time around so I think it’s reasonable to look at the meta there to extrapolate what might be worth keeping an eye on.
Couple notes:Item Clause might be interesting, and it's not like we have items that are very spammable outside of Lefties. Still gonna suck for some mons, but the items not being present (Band, Specs, Life Orb, Toxic Orb for Gliscor, Flame Orb for Guts users, HDB, etc) will be more of a problem anyway. It'll drastically change the way we approach the tier, and ngl... I'm all for it?
On the metagame itself:
Yeah no they'll quickly get very very banned lmao, they all go stupid for reasons I don't need to specify.
Interested to see how these 2 Uber mons will do here, as they have a lot less reasons to be banned. Kangaskhan lost Seismic Toss and PuP, it will still be a very good mega (Parental Bond makes it have the equivalent of 165 base Atk), while Sneasler will certainly be balanced at least before we get Surge setters. It has to rely on White Herb, or Normal Gem, or Focus Sash to get Unburden up, Dire Claw is still very stupid but we'll see.
This one will go very stupid, Swords Dance even without Return on this profile is scary, SD/CC/Facade/Mach Punch or Triple Axel is very stupid.
Biggest buff of the bunch, getting Poltergeist in this meta might make it very good, too bad no Choice Band or Z move or Life Orb but it'll manage I think, it can still do the same SD sets it used to do, or mixed, no SubToxic tho.
I expect all of these new megas to be really good. Item clause and the poor pool of items means a mega slot isn't as bad as it used to be, and it helps Greninja or Clefable in particular, I can even imagine regular Clefable running its mega stone anyway and mega evolving if it needs the Ground immunity or Magic Bounce. Greninja-Mega will go hard, one of the fastest unboosted mons, behind Sceptile-Mega, Beedrill-Mega and Aerodactyl-Mega, combined with a really great coverage. Delphox-Mega after a Nasty Plot will go hard. I expect Meganium, Feraligatr and Froslass to at least have some viability in the tier. Finally Floette will go very stupid, we have some annoying Steels for it, but otherwise you need to be very careful around that thing, I might try to run some SubCM sets with DKiss, it might be worth a try.
Very stupid.
I'm a believer but I don't expect it to be that good.
No Toxic Orb RIP bozo
Also a very good pool of offensive threats, Gardevoir-Mega in particular will shine because no Tapu Lele to steal its spotlight.
Sun is very interesting, it has like, one great setter and 2 great abusers, no Great Tusk means removing hazards will be slightly less easy but we have Excadrill so it's fine.
Mega alakazam might be fine up until terrain setters are added
Mega lucario is also getting banned lmfao
Mega scovillain forcing burns is like, decent, but I think that taking 25% from rocks is not great, and especially bad on a mon that wants to mega, switch out, and threaten to switch in whenever something starts setting up physically
I’m trying to think about if ariados is worth running because i think sticky web is gonna be a really disgusting ho archetype wo boots, since screens doesnt have light clay i dont think itll be seen outside maybe mega froslass
I dont really believe in sand or sun, i think sun only *really* has charizard as a good mon, and sand is going to be limited to the more passive version of itself (ie, just forcing a lot of chip) with only base excadrill as an abuser
Araquanid will most likely be the default Webs setter over Ariados. If we see a lot of Hypnosis lead spam for some reason then maybe Insomnia can give it a niche, but like, don't count on it too much.
Oh i didnt see araquanid was in, in that case I think webs as an archetype could be definitely frustrating until more mons and items are freed
it wouldn't do to talk about the 3v3 format here, would it? not for the purpose of the metagame but teambuilding for in-game purposes
Idk if this has been answered yet. Blunder said on his stream that this format is releasing tomorrow. Is he correct? I don’t see that anywhere in this thread. Unless I’m blind.
Partially true yeah
It's not exactly enough to estimate what the 6v6 will be like, but it does give us ideas for what to look in the trends and sets
Two Pokemon i want to use for the example are Mega Gardevoir and Primarina
Both normally UU staples with OU prowess that are getting considerably stronger in champions due to reverse powercreep and the lack of tapu lele / fini respectively
I think it's good to keep an eye on what's good in bss because some of it will translate over