Unpopular opinions

[LeftyGreenMario]

I don't look down on people who play with shift. It's their choice ultimately and I know there are people who just like easy, fun games. And for those who don't even realize how shift trivializes the game and believe that the game is too easy, I fault bad game design rather than get angry at those players. I find it a little ironic that Pokemon can be notorious for babying and tutorials but some basic mechanics are tucked away in options or just plain out hidden and unnecessarily cumbersome to manage. For suggestions, "set" should be the default, recommended mode while "shift" is encouraged for beginners or super casual players.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I think there's only one problem with Shift: it tells you the opponent's next Pokemon. If that wasn't there I think Shift wouldn't be considered "easy mode", or at least not to the extreme many do. Probably be more considered a "casual mode".

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

If shift didn't tell you what the next Pokemon was, the only time I think you'd want to shift is if your Pokemon is running low on HP or statused. I just don't think that justifies the constant prompting otherwise.

 

[Hugin]

If shift didn't tell you what the next Pokemon was, the only time I think you'd want to shift is if your Pokemon is running low on HP or statused. I just don't think that justifies the constant prompting otherwise.

Or if you’re grinding or otherwise paying a lot of attention to xp.

 

[Siggu]

I think the best choice for this is to outright ask the player at the beginning of the game if they want to play on Shift or on Set. It's likely many players don't even KNOW this option exists, and think Set is only possible on PvP and Battle Facilities.

 

[Codraroll]

I might come off as elitist, but Pokemon in-game should have battle options to "set" to default or just leave it as set. Shift is the default. If you're not familiar, shift is when a message tells you that a trainer is bringing in a Pokemon and you can switch out your Pokemon or keep it in. Set automatically makes the trainer bring the next Pokemon without warning. Anyway, "shift" teaches very bad habits by not punishing the lack of coverage moves and players don't get to appreciate matchups (which would also facilitate coverage moves). Battle Frontier doesn't use "shift" either. And unless you take the time to look at the options, you probably won't realize that "set" is just how regular pvp battles are and you might come in as a shock. Better people learn it early than get accustomed to a bad system, so ideally, just remove "shift" or just put it as part of "easy" mode.

The above is one of the reasons why I think the Battle Whatever is a rather poor form of postgame content on their own. Because so much of what the game has allowed until that point is suddenly forgotten. Want 6v6 battles? A use for the items you have been hoarding? Want to pit your Amie boosted Pokémon pals against tough foes where the Amie boosts can save a hopeless situation rather than allowing you to steamroll foes you'd have beaten without the boosts anyway? Or to challenge strong trainers with that unique, post-game legendary, or other post-game Pokémon? Maybe train your Pokémon all the way to level 100 to see what lies at the top of that ladder? Too bad, now you're past all that. Instead, have a facility where a lot of the mechanics you've come to know are taken away, legendaries aren't allowed, the battle format is locked to 3v3 if you play Singles, and in later generations levels don't even matter, you're scaled to 50 anyway. And of course, EV and IV mechanics means that the Pokémon you've used until then are practically worthless for Battle Whatever success in the long run.

Sure, if you're used to competitive play the Battle Whatever might represent a more "pure" form of battling compared to the rest of in-game, but to newcomers it's an absurdly high jump on the difficulty curve, with really limited options, no narrative, and very little room for failure. You go straight from casual romp with no restrictions to full-on tournament rules with no transition at all. And the payoff isn't that great either, it's just an endless flood of trainers no matter how well you do, in the long run you can only lose, and the only goal is pushing that win streak higher and higher. You don't even gain experience. Sure, earning BP is great, but half the items you can buy for them are consumables that are only useful in the facilities themselves. Then again, there's usually nowhere else to use them anyway.

So yeah, getting anywhere in the Battle Whatever requires a level of commitment and knowledge that the rest of the game barely prepares you for, and if you're not willing to go that deep into the mechanics, the game has practically nothing else to offer. It's the point where many players put the games away to wait for the next game to give them another dose of the casual gameplay they love the series for. Sure, the newest games have a casual mode where you can use legendaries to tear through the Tree against easier opponents, but that turns repetitive quite quickly too.

When people are asking for more post-game, I think this is what they're wanting. Another option to continue playing without the insanely difficult Battle Whatever grind, or repeating what few repeatable challenges the games have to offer (the E4 over and over again). In that respect, White Treehollow/Black Tower was great, as those challenges had a clear end point with a sweet reward, and building up Join Avenue was very fun too. But from XY onwards, the amount of stuff to do has dwindled down to those two things, and players take the third option and just go play something else instead.

 

[adman2]

A use for the items you have been hoarding? Want to pit your Amie boosted Pokémon pals against tough foes where the Amie boosts can save a hopeless situation rather than allowing you to steamroll foes you'd have beaten without the boosts anyway?

Maybe you'd enjoy my solo playthrough thread. BEETRICE the Vespiquen and Firestorm the Butterfree never would have survived X and Moon without Affection bonuses like random dodges.


Generally, I like to think of variant playthroughs as the best form of replay value the Pokemon games have. Pick an early Pokemon that isn't a starter, and try to get through the game using only that. If you're using a Pokemon that's at least mediocre, try abstaining from Battle Items (e.g. Potions, X Attack) as well. You'll learn about things that you otherwise might not have, such as experience groups (Fluctuating and Erratic can be nasty surprises if you don't know about them).


Different games have different quirks that you'll notice in a challenge playthrough too. Some delay evolution stones until late in the game, while others may restrict the best TMs to the postgame (that means you, Black/White!) In the Kanto games, try doing the Gyms out of order, because that region is less linear compared to others.

 

[DreamPrince]

On the topic of not telling how to evolve Pokemon blatantly, I'd like to point that in BW2 you could call Juniper and she would tell you how to evolve Pokemon via the Xtranciever. Kind of a nice feature if you were a beginner , especially since they can be called anywhere and anytime. Yet, they took it out in the next games and never replaced it. This is GF’s problem: They always drop features regardless whether it’s good or not. And they do it for a reason. They want to make every region unique. And while that does have some good features, like PokeRide, there’s also things that are awful, like SOS battles and Rotom Dex.

 

[Siggu]

On the topic of not telling how to evolve Pokemon blatantly, I'd like to point that in BW2 you could call Juniper and she would tell you how to evolve Pokemon via the Xtranciever. Kind of a nice feature if you were a beginner , especially since they can be called anywhere and anytime. Yet, they took it out in the next games and never replaced it. This is GF’s problem: They always drop features regardless whether it’s good or not. And they do it for a reason. They want to make every region unique. And while that does have some good features, like PokeRide, there’s also things that are awful, like SOS battles and Rotom Dex.

SOS battles were fine to me (moreso in USUM that they "fixed" them so that Pokémon cannot get aid more than once if you don't use the Adrenaline Orb), though they could have been better... for instance, by letting you catch one of the Pokémon without the battle ending.

Which, by the way, reminds me of another (currently) region-specific feature. I hope wild Pokémon chaining stays catch-based like in Let's Go instead of encounter-based like in othe games. That way cannot be punished by RNG (apart from Let's Go's controversial catching mechanics). And preferably including other benefits that chaining style has (like boosting the encounter rates of rare Pokémon... and why not the experience multipliers?)

 

[Codraroll]

Generally, I like to think of variant playthroughs as the best form of replay value the Pokemon games have. Pick an early Pokemon that isn't a starter, and try to get through the game using only that. If you're using a Pokemon that's at least mediocre, try abstaining from Battle Items (e.g. Potions, X Attack) as well. You'll learn about things that you otherwise might not have, such as experience groups (Fluctuating and Erratic can be nasty surprises if you don't know about them).

And that brings up another issue for the casual player: The Pokémon games have a high replay value, but they are extremely punishing to start over. To replay, you have to delete your progress. Dozens of hours of playtime. Unless you have multiple systems and/or a Bank subscription, there goes all the Pokémon you caught. All the items you collected, including Mega Stones. Player customization options. High scores. Your Trainer ID and the stamps on your Trainer Card. Friend Codes too, if I recall correctly. Join Avenue progress, Secret Bases, Pokémon Contest portraits, PokéDex progress. All gone and wiped clean. And then in recent games (which are especially bad, considering how their postgame is so poor otherwise as noted in my previous post), upon restarting you have to do the hours of unskippable cutscenes, tutorial dialogue and general hand-holding over again. To replay the games, you need to be willing to let go of everything you worked for, and be patient enough to endure having everything explained to you again as if you've never touched a Pokémon game before.

Previous Pokémon games, as in generations III-V, had a pretty solid postgame with lots of stuff to do. They seemed to be designed to let players play for long after the main story was over. Nowadays, there's only the Battle Whatever, and it isn't there to keep the interest of the casual player and maybe introducing them to the more exotic mechanics and more difficult challenges, slowly making a long-time fan out of them, but to give the already hardcore players a familiar challenge to grind in perpetuity while waiting for the next game. Unless you're already familiar with those aspects of the games, and already have the desire to have your skills seriously challenged without much of an introduction, the newer games have little to offer. They seem designed to be picked up by people who have no idea what the games are about, played through exactly once, and then abandoned. The repeatable parts of the postgame will assume you know everything about IVs, EVs, breeding and the ins and outs of battle mechanics (or else letting you catch 'em all without giving you anything to use 'em all for), while starting over (or buying the next game) assumes you never played the games before.

We joke about Game Freak not catering to their long-time fans, but at least they acknowledge the demand for a Battle Whatever. It's the step from casual player up to long-time fan they're truly neglecting, as the games contain less and less content to grab the attention of those who didn't fall in love/become addicted back before the 3D era. Nowadays, the game either assumes you're already a long-time fan, or that you will never be.

 

[adman2]

And that brings up another issue for the casual player: The Pokémon games have a high replay value, but they are extremely punishing to start over. To replay, you have to delete your progress. Dozens of hours of playtime. Unless you have multiple systems and/or a Bank subscription, there goes all the Pokémon you caught. . .To replay the games, you need to be willing to let go of everything you worked for, and be patient enough to endure having everything explained to you again as if you've never touched a Pokémon game before.

Everyone hates the "1 save slot" restriction in Pokemon games. It's probably not an unpopular opinion. Just to rub it in everyone's faces, GameFreak didn't include save states in the 3DS version of Crystal, while almost all other Virtual Console games do (including Pokemon Trading Card Game GBC). Etrian Odyssey used to have similar restrictions, but even that series added multiple save slots in the later 3DS entries (e.g. Untold 2, Nexus). And in the older EO games, you could at least make level 1 characters for a New Game Plus file and avoid buying advanced equipment to play through the game again without having to redraw the maps.


It's easier for me to let go of some previous saves because I burned out on competitive battling. That said, you might not see another Moon solo soon because it would mean deleting Firestorm the solo Butterfree, slayer of legendaries on Battle Spot. Caterpie and Alolan Rattata were fillers in those fights, and I forfeited if Butterfree fainted. Well, I guess I could trade Firestorm the Butterfree to give him a good home. . .


To speed up repeat playthroughs, I set the text speed to the fastest possible, turn off battle animations, and switch to Set to avoid having to read Shift prompts when I carry around HM Mules. (Don't ever play Pearl with animations on. It's unbearably slow compared to the other Pokemon games.)


Moon was the slowest in the series as far as "slogging through dialogue to get your starter" went, unless the Ultra versions are even worse. (Never played Ultra Moon.)

 

[Detective Barricade]

And that brings up another issue for the casual player: The Pokémon games have a high replay value, but they are extremely punishing to start over. To replay, you have to delete your progress. Dozens of hours of playtime. Unless you have multiple systems and/or a Bank subscription, there goes all the Pokémon you caught. All the items you collected, including Mega Stones. Player customization options. High scores. Your Trainer ID and the stamps on your Trainer Card. Friend Codes too, if I recall correctly. Join Avenue progress, Secret Bases, Pokémon Contest portraits, PokéDex progress. All gone and wiped clean. And then in recent games (which are especially bad, considering how their postgame is so poor otherwise as noted in my previous post), upon restarting you have to do the hours of unskippable cutscenes, tutorial dialogue and general hand-holding over again. To replay the games, you need to be willing to let go of everything you worked for, and be patient enough to endure having everything explained to you again as if you've never touched a Pokémon game before.

Previous Pokémon games, as in generations III-V, had a pretty solid postgame with lots of stuff to do. They seemed to be designed to let players play for long after the main story was over. Nowadays, there's only the Battle Whatever, and it isn't there to keep the interest of the casual player and maybe introducing them to the more exotic mechanics and more difficult challenges, slowly making a long-time fan out of them, but to give the already hardcore players a familiar challenge to grind in perpetuity while waiting for the next game. Unless you're already familiar with those aspects of the games, and already have the desire to have your skills seriously challenged without much of an introduction, the newer games have little to offer. They seem designed to be picked up by people who have no idea what the games are about, played through exactly once, and then abandoned. The repeatable parts of the postgame will assume you know everything about IVs, EVs, breeding and the ins and outs of battle mechanics (or else letting you catch 'em all without giving you anything to use 'em all for), while starting over (or buying the next game) assumes you never played the games before.

We joke about Game Freak not catering to their long-time fans, but at least they acknowledge the demand for a Battle Whatever. It's the step from casual player up to long-time fan they're truly neglecting, as the games contain less and less content to grab the attention of those who didn't fall in love/become addicted back before the 3D era. Nowadays, the game either assumes you're already a long-time fan, or that you will never be.

I get the sense that replay value is a somewhat foreign concept for Game Freak, at least the Game Freak of today. The Pokemon games have a ton of variety in how a play through can go. Even choosing the exact same team of six Pokemon can vary due to IVs, EVs, natures, etc. In that regard, Pokemon is amazing for providing an experience that's virtually never exactly the same between players.

But Game Freak has stubbornly chosen not to provide a second save slot. Not even in Black/White 2 with their poorly implemented assist/challenge modes, which I'm sure we can all agree should have been unlocked from the start regardless of version, did they offer it.

I do to some extent like that you can't just overwrite your previous save file. But it's pretty clear Game Freak only really expects players to go through once, chew through what little extra grind there is while waiting for the next games, and then basically drop it once the new games are announced. Maybe it's a product of the almost yearly release they've been doing lately.

Oh, and the only good thing the keys really did was allow switching between Black City and White Forest. I don't know if that's an unpopular opinion, but there you go.

 

[Zowayix]

Everyone hates the "1 save slot" restriction in Pokemon games. It's probably not an unpopular opinion. Just to rub it in everyone's faces, GameFreak didn't include save states in the 3DS version of Crystal, while almost all other Virtual Console games do (including Pokemon Trading Card Game GBC). Etrian Odyssey used to have similar restrictions, but even that series added multiple save slots in the later 3DS entries (e.g. Untold 2, Nexus). And in the older EO games, you could at least make level 1 characters for a New Game Plus file and avoid buying advanced equipment to play through the game again without having to redraw the maps.


It's easier for me to let go of some previous saves because I burned out on competitive battling. That said, you might not see another Moon solo soon because it would mean deleting Firestorm the solo Butterfree, slayer of legendaries on Battle Spot. Caterpie and Alolan Rattata were fillers in those fights, and I forfeited if Butterfree fainted. Well, I guess I could trade Firestorm the Butterfree to give him a good home. . .


To speed up repeat playthroughs, I set the text speed to the fastest possible, turn off battle animations, and switch to Set to avoid having to read Shift prompts when I carry around HM Mules. (Don't ever play Pearl with animations on. It's unbearably slow compared to the other Pokemon games.)


Moon was the slowest in the series as far as "slogging through dialogue to get your starter" went, unless the Ultra versions are even worse. (Never played Ultra Moon.)

Not counting soft resets, core series Pokemon games have never included any form of 'save manipulation' like save states, as they would easily allow cloning Pokemon. This goes all the way back to Colosseum and Box on the Gamecube, which if I recall correctly were the first games to disallow backing up a memory card.

 

[Kurona]

The good thing is that Sword/Shield will automatically technically have as many save slots as you like -- save data on the Switch is tied to whichever user you select; so if you want a new save file, you can just make a new user. Imo it's the best thing SwSh has going for it rn

 

[Zowayix]

The good thing is that Sword/Shield will automatically technically have as many save slots as you like -- save data on the Switch is tied to whichever user you select; so if you want a new save file, you can just make a new user. Imo it's the best thing SwSh has going for it rn

Wasn't there some Switch game where no matter which user you selected, they would all still share the same save file?

 

[Kurona]

Wasn't there some Switch game where no matter which user you selected, they would all still share the same save file?

I'm not aware of that. Even ones with online ranking systems like Smash and Splatoon have separate save files for different users.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

But it's pretty clear Game Freak only really expects players to go through once, chew through what little extra grind there is while waiting for the next games, and then basically drop it once the new games are announced. Maybe it's a product of the almost yearly release they've been doing lately.

I have been thinking about this for a bit lately. It seems like some areas in the recent games have been designed specifically with the purpuse that the player is only supposed to go through them once (the first time, during the main story), then never again. One thing that really stuck me regarding this is the layout of Malie City. Or at least the placement of the Pokémon Center. It is placed so that you can easily heal yourself during the main story as it is close to the garden which has to be visited twice during the main game. But it is very far away from all the other interesting things the city has to offer that you are likely to be visiting multiple times during the post-game, such as the clothing shop, the library, the city hall and the Gym (in US/UM). I might be nitpicking here, but after playing US/UM a lot and doing daily battles at the Gym during some periods, it has started to feel this way for me. The Pokémon Center should have been located more in the "center" of the city, so you don't have to walk/ride for an eternity when you want to get to one of the more useful locations in the city.

As for the yearly releases, I think you are right. Personally, I wouldn't mind waiting a little longer for the new main series game(s) if the longer development time meant better gameplay and more content, but I guess that's not going to happen. As long as the games sell well, there's probably no reason for them to not release a new game every year. Maybe it has even gotten to the point that if they don't release a new game every year, it might mean a loss of money. I'm still surprised there was no new main series game in 2015.

Oh, and the only good thing the keys really did was allow switching between Black City and White Forest. I don't know if that's an unpopular opinion, but there you go.

Not really. I have seen a lot of criticism towards the key system over the years, disliking it isn't unpopular at all.

So that brings me to the opposite, which is also an unpopular opinion of my own. I liked the key system in B2/W2. Yes, the execution could have been better, but it was still fun for what it was. I loved Memory Link, it made B/W and B2/W2 feel a lot more connected. Getting both Black Tower and White Treehollow in both games was tons of fun. I think that is something they could expand on with more Battle Facilities in future games, but I guess that's just never going to happen. I liked how they handled the Regis too, exclusive legendaries that could still be obtained in both games. I also had tons of fun playing through White 2 on Challenge Mode. I think the main issues with the key system was that the difficulty modes was unlocked post-game only, and the fact that the system only worked through local wireless. If it had been useable over Wi-Fi as well, I think there would have been a lot less complaints. The best option could have been to make it work over both wireless and Wi-Fi. I'd like to see the key system return in the future, but with support for both Wi-Fi and local wireless. Though I don't think that is going to happen.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

I think there's only one problem with Shift: it tells you the opponent's next Pokemon. If that wasn't there I think Shift wouldn't be considered "easy mode", or at least not to the extreme many do. Probably be more considered a "casual mode".

Some Pokemon game hack does that, they allow you to switch but they don't tell you what is the mon that is coming in. Thus, shift can be both advantageous and disadvantgeous.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'm sure this isn't unpopular, but it wouldn't hurt if the Move Reminder was found earlier than at the League's doorstep. I wouldn't want to see being able to learn later moves now go away, and recognize that option being earlier would be VERY unbalanced, so... why not have two Move Reminders? A young one about midway, and their grandma at the League who's more knowledgeable and thus can teach the moves a Pokemon has yet to learn. (and potentially the pre-evolution moves they could have learned had they not evolved)

That or have the Move Reminder be midway in the game, when first encountered he can only re-teach moves already learned, but after getting the 8th Badge/whatever before facing the League you can go back to them (or they'll move to where the Pokemon League is) and they'll now be able to teach your Pokemon any move it can possibly learn.

I'm not sure if the games go through the lengths of informing you why you'd want to hold back evolutions (some exclusive moves and moves being learned earlier), and so they should say that stone evolutions mean you miss out on some useful level up moves.

The games really need an in-game knowledge databank which at least hints when there is something like that to discover, so players can search for Easter eggs without trying in vain while still retaining some element of surprise. If only the Pokémon franchise had an element like that, a knowledge bank trainers carry on their person, it would be really useful in-game... a "Pokémon Index" or something like that...

They could have all this information be available at the Trainer School. They put it in every game but it's hardly used for anything important. Sometimes you're told/required to visit it but all you really learn from it are what the status ailments do. In addition to that they could have a classroom/book which tells you about how certain Pokemon evolve, useful moves they get earlier/only in their pre-evolved form, how certain moves and Abilities can work together, IVs, EVs, stats Natures effect, how much of a buff/debuff the stage increases/decreases do, how certain types have additional traits to them (I would suggest also having the Type Chart but that's something you should be able to call up any time via the Pokedex), etc..

Going back to stone evolutions

Some stone evolutions do actually still get some moves after evolving too. For example, Victreebell gets leaf tornado on evolution, leaf storm at level 32 and leaf blade at level 44. Bellossom gets four moves on level-up, but at very late levels. This is exactly what Pikachu315111 described. The system would be fine if the devs handled all stone evolutions this way. Giving all of the stone evo's a move on evolution is an especially good way of making the trade-off mechanic interesting and balanced at the same time.

Also another thing they should do is upon evolving maybe give these Pokemon a decent move in case someone does evolve them early. Using the Fire Stone evolvers as an example, give Flame Wheel to Arcanine & Flareon (later levels they can learn Fire Fang & Flare Blitz) and Flame Burst to Ninetales and Simisear (later levels they can learn Flamethrower & Fire Blast). While not all that powerful in the long run, at least it's something they can use to start out with.

Players should know how to take care of berries. They don't need to know fancy formulas, just that they need to be told that they should water the plant once per each growth stage of the berries, and any more times is unnecessary. I remember wasting time watering berries so much because I was unaware. Growth times don't have to be told, though, players should be able to figure that out.

I'm mixed on how complicated they should make Berry growing. I like the idea that if you take care of the Berries you'll be able to get more Berries, but don't like if you forget to pick them they die (though at least the berry replants itself). I do like they now have all the Berry planting happening in one location, so maybe they could do something where you can either take care of the Berries yourself or can hire a gardener to grow the berries for you (but you'll only get the average amount of Berries). Also they should have a way for you to check on your Berries progress, like the Berry Growing app for the Poketch.

If shift didn't tell you what the next Pokemon was, the only time I think you'd want to shift is if your Pokemon is running low on HP or statused. I just don't think that justifies the constant prompting otherwise.

In that case players who get annoyed with it will turn it off. However I think by having set not tell you what Pokemon is coming up next might help young players learn to "predict".

Say if your active Pokemon is a Fire-type. Unless the trainer you're battling is a Type Specialist like a Gym Leader, if they have two or more Pokemon left they'd send out the one which is best for facing Fire-types. Fire is weak to Water, Ground, and Rock, so if you have a Grass (or even Water) type you could start the next battle off on the advantage. Now, of course you may run into situations where you predict wrong and turns out they send out a Poison-type because they don't have a countering Type. But that's the risk you take on switching, it's no different then when you start a battle and your opponent sends out a Type the first Pokemon in your party is weak too.

And there's also other factors like if your active Pokemon is low on HP or you just want to spread experience around.

I think the best choice for this is to outright ask the player at the beginning of the game if they want to play on Shift or on Set. It's likely many players don't even KNOW this option exists, and think Set is only possible on PvP and Battle Facilities.

Yeah, but also keep the option in the menu and the game should tell you if you change your mind you can change the setting in the options. Maybe also have the Trainer School explain that too.

When people are asking for more post-game, I think this is what they're wanting. Another option to continue playing without the insanely difficult Battle Whatever grind, or repeating what few repeatable challenges the games have to offer (the E4 over and over again). In that respect, White Treehollow/Black Tower was great, as those challenges had a clear end point with a sweet reward, and building up Join Avenue was very fun too.

I agree they should bring back something like White Treehollow/Black Tower but do more with it. After you complete it, while you can always challenge it again, it does feel like you're doing the same thing again as at that point the story is done. Maybe they could do something like have little post story campaigns you can do that tells a story and gives you choices which you can replay over and over again. Like have your player join a Escape Room/LARP/Dungeon & Dragons-like group. And while the base game will have a batch of stories to play though, they could add even more through DLC (free of course, this is something to keep the player invested in the game).

Everyone hates the "1 save slot" restriction in Pokemon games.

I think upon completing your initial playthrough they should unlock a second save slot that lets you replay the game (and maybe even have it give New Game+ options but that's an entirely different discussion). And when you complete that playthrough you can then send Pokemon (and maybe certain items) between the save slots (that way you can keep on restarting the 2nd save slot yet still keep the Pokemon you trained in it by sending them to your 1st save slot game).

But as said, with the Switch allowing for different accounts that'll probably be a non-issue (unless they make it one save slot per console). When the games are handheld it makes sense, handhelds are personal devices thus having the one save file encourages players to trade & battle each other. However since home consoles are used by many members of the family I say makes sense for each account on it to have its own save file. It will just mean you can't trade with the other version without using the GTS.

So that brings me to the opposite, which is also an unpopular opinion of my own. I liked the key system in B2/W2. Yes, the execution could have been better, but it was still fun for what it was. I loved Memory Link, it made B/W and B2/W2 feel a lot more connected. Getting both Black Tower and White Treehollow in both games was tons of fun.

I agree, nothing wrong with the Key System itself, just some of the things they did with it was REALLY stupid. Notably the difficulty settings, they shouldn't be keys at all but standard options from the start.

LOVE Memory Link, really what makes Gen V such a unique generation and only frustrating they haven't done something like this in Gen VI (which they skipped having a 3rd version/2nd paired games) and Gen VII (which second paired games was just a slightly altered version of the initial versions). Memory Link made it feel like what you did in BW mattered, there was a purpose to those games and the relations and choices you made in them.

 

[adman2]

That or have the Move Reminder be midway in the game, when first encountered he can only re-teach moves already learned, but after getting the 8th Badge/whatever before facing the League you can go back to them (or they'll move to where the Pokemon League is) and they'll now be able to teach your Pokemon any move it can possibly learn.

The Move Reminder is in Pastoria City in Pearl, where you find the 4th Gym. My solo Roserade learned Weather Ball there in my recent playthrough. Heart Scales can be acquired by digging them out of walls in the Underground minigame. Other games probably delay the Move Reminder until later.

 

[Pikachu315111]

The Move Reminder is in Pastoria City in Pearl, where you find the 4th Gym. My solo Roserade learned Weather Ball there in my recent playthrough. Heart Scales can be acquired by digging them out of walls in the Underground minigame. Other games probably delay the Move Reminder until later.

Prior to Gen VII the Move Reminder was generally in the middle or 3/4th way into the game (though in Johto it was in Blackthorn). However in Gen VII they changed it so that the Move Tutor could teach your Pokemon any move it learns by level-up, even if it hadn't passed that level yet. Because of this they moved the Move Tutor to the Pokemon League.

What I'm saying is having the Move Reminder appear mid-game like they do in other games but only teaching Pokemon moves that it learned from levels it had passed through. Then when you're about to face the Pokemon League have them move to the Pokemon League and have them offer to teach any move learned by level-up.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Not counting soft resets, core series Pokemon games have never included any form of 'save manipulation' like save states, as they would easily allow cloning Pokemon. This goes all the way back to Colosseum and Box on the Gamecube, which if I recall correctly were the first games to disallow backing up a memory card.

That didn't stop cloning Pokemon through other means such as in Gold and Emerald and it didn't stop cheating in general. And what's the big deal about cloning Pokemon? The idea of anti-cheat measures being in mostly single player games astounds me.

 

[Dialganet2]

On the previous subject of withheld information, there is one egregious case that nobody mentioned (if I haven't missed anything) in the discussion and they are another case of sheer GF lazyness: egg moves.

Anyway, it would be pretty easy to implement evolution tables in the Dex via progressive unlocking: instead of cash prices for certain pokemon (Gen VII people in Pokemon Centers, or stupid rewards when completing/updating the Dex in older games), why can't the dex simply function like this: if the dex is 300 mon, at 100 you get an alert like "this pokemon does not evolve via level up", at 200 more details like "requires a stone (without specifying)/requires another player…” and upon completing you of course unlock the specific details.

Maybe even earlier than upon completing, since there are peculiar evolutions, to say the least, you would have no clue about (hello, Malamar).

Going back to Egg moves: as far as I recall, nobody even hints at EMs during the game (some NPCs may say “this mon has a special move”, but I can’t recall presently, and I am pretty confident), the only instance being “special moves” in ORAS. This is a huge pet peeve of mine since EMs are important not only for competitive battlers and breeders but could represent a fun, very unique to Pokemon in-game feature.

Let me explain myself: while it is certainly a competitive battler aimed mechanic (DD Zard, E-Speed Dragonite, Meteor Mash Lucario, Pursuit Bisharp… you name it), and it makes for a fun gimmick if you want to use shitmons in an in-game run (First Impression, Leaf Blade Farfetch’d, Inferno Slugma, Elemental Fangs Poochyena… you can guess), provided of course you have a copy/friend to breed you such mons, it could also be used to turn some non-plot relevant battles into still noteworthy bouts.

Take, for instance, the “Route Boss” trainers in Gen VII, that require you to beat the entire route before battling them. They’re usually remarkably stronger than the competition you will have faced thus far, and may have a Z-Move too, and will reward you with a TM. This was a good implementation, but it could be expanded: imagine being on the third route of the game, and you come across an Ace Trainer: apparently he just has a normal Lickitung, but said Lickitung used… Muddy Water? Hammer Arm? Why is that Veteran’s Barboach Dragon Dancing and Sparking?

Or maybe someone’s Rock Head Aggron could use Head Smash and would like to know how did that Medicham handled him a loss with priority moves, for Arceus’ sake.

Of course this would come at the “price” of actually telling the player what is going on and how the game works, something GF seems particularly stingy about.

You mainly breed for the following things: Nature inheritance (explained through everstone), IVs (little to no explanation, outside of the judge) and Egg Moves (no indication whatsoever). You can throw in ball inheritance if you’re a collectors like myself and many others (something you learn on the fly, but again, no explanation).

Of course this would require some work, but it’s not like it would turn GF gameplay developers’ job into slavery: the “shape” indication in previous gens’ Dex could be used to inform the player of a Pokemon egg group(s), while upon Dex completion like aforementioned (or number of eggs hatched, whatever) you could implement Egg Move indications. You just need a couple of NPCs at the daycare to explain you the mechanic and figure out which potential parent could learn the move you want the offsprings to inherit. All without internet, mind you.

 

[Siggu]

On the previous subject of withheld information, there is one egregious case that nobody mentioned (if I haven't missed anything) in the discussion and they are another case of sheer GF lazyness: egg moves.

Anyway, it would be pretty easy to implement evolution tables in the Dex via progressive unlocking: instead of cash prices for certain pokemon (Gen VII people in Pokemon Centers, or stupid rewards when completing/updating the Dex in older games), why can't the dex simply function like this: if the dex is 300 mon, at 100 you get an alert like "this pokemon does not evolve via level up", at 200 more details like "requires a stone (without specifying)/requires another player…” and upon completing you of course unlock the specific details.

Maybe even earlier than upon completing, since there are peculiar evolutions, to say the least, you would have no clue about (hello, Malamar).

Going back to Egg moves: as far as I recall, nobody even hints at EMs during the game (some NPCs may say “this mon has a special move”, but I can’t recall presently, and I am pretty confident), the only instance being “special moves” in ORAS. This is a huge pet peeve of mine since EMs are important not only for competitive battlers and breeders but could represent a fun, very unique to Pokemon in-game feature.

Let me explain myself: while it is certainly a competitive battler aimed mechanic (DD Zard, E-Speed Dragonite, Meteor Mash Lucario, Pursuit Bisharp… you name it), and it makes for a fun gimmick if you want to use shitmons in an in-game run (First Impression, Leaf Blade Farfetch’d, Inferno Slugma, Elemental Fangs Poochyena… you can guess), provided of course you have a copy/friend to breed you such mons, it could also be used to turn some non-plot relevant battles into still noteworthy bouts.

Take, for instance, the “Route Boss” trainers in Gen VII, that require you to beat the entire route before battling them. They’re usually remarkably stronger than the competition you will have faced thus far, and may have a Z-Move too, and will reward you with a TM. This was a good implementation, but it could be expanded: imagine being on the third route of the game, and you come across an Ace Trainer: apparently he just has a normal Lickitung, but said Lickitung used… Muddy Water? Hammer Arm? Why is that Veteran’s Barboach Dragon Dancing and Sparking?

Or maybe someone’s Rock Head Aggron could use Head Smash and would like to know how did that Medicham handled him a loss with priority moves, for Arceus’ sake.

Of course this would come at the “price” of actually telling the player what is going on and how the game works, something GF seems particularly stingy about.

You mainly breed for the following things: Nature inheritance (explained through everstone), IVs (little to no explanation, outside of the judge) and Egg Moves (no indication whatsoever). You can throw in ball inheritance if you’re a collectors like myself and many others (something you learn on the fly, but again, no explanation).

Of course this would require some work, but it’s not like it would turn GF gameplay developers’ job into slavery: the “shape” indication in previous gens’ Dex could be used to inform the player of a Pokemon egg group(s), while upon Dex completion like aforementioned (or number of eggs hatched, whatever) you could implement Egg Move indications. You just need a couple of NPCs at the daycare to explain you the mechanic and figure out which potential parent could learn the move you want the offsprings to inherit. All without internet, mind you.

Which brings me back to something I pointed out before: Pokémon is not beginner-friendly. Especially not in concepts that are used in online battles.

Double Battles, the official tournament format? If there are 10 double battles between both SM and USUM, it's more than I think there were.

IVs? Oh, sure, there's an NPC that tells you that not every Pokémon of the same species has the same strength, and you have the Judge functionality from SM onward, but the game does not really tell you what they mean, that they increase stats by a flat amount.

EVs? Similarly, there are many tools where you can see them... assuming you know those tools are showing you EVs. Again, it does not tell you how they work. There's been an NPC in pretty much every game that tells you that trained Pokémon are stronger than wild Pokémon, but not much else.

Breeding? In Gen VII there's an NPC that tells you that an Everstone makes hatchling have the same nature as the parent that carries it, and another that tells you that Pokémon of differing languages produce eggs more often. And that's it. Nothing about other items with breeding effects, Egg Moves, Ability inheritance, IV inheritance, Poké Ball inheritance, egg groups, egg steps... nope.

STAB? It took until Gen IV for the game to mention it. At least, as far as I can remember.

Evolution? BW2 had that neat Bianca call to tell you how to evolve a Pokémon, but it was never reused.

Type chart? Only the Pokétch app in Gen IV showed it in-game.

Move, item and ability descriptions? Hah, good luck getting all the info you need from it *stares at Water Bubble*

Base stats, learnset and possible abilities? Nope. At least the learnset is shown through the new Move Reminder.

And I might be forgetting about other things.

 

[Detective Barricade]

Which brings me back to something I pointed out before: Pokémon is not beginner-friendly. Especially not in concepts that are used in online battles.

Double Battles, the official tournament format? If there are 10 double battles between both SM and USUM, it's more than I think there were.

IVs? Oh, sure, there's an NPC that tells you that not every Pokémon of the same species has the same strength, and you have the Judge functionality from SM onward, but the game does not really tell you what they mean, that they increase stats by a flat amount.

EVs? Similarly, there are many tools where you can see them... assuming you know those tools are showing you EVs. Again, it does not tell you how they work. There's been an NPC in pretty much every game that tells you that trained Pokémon are stronger than wild Pokémon, but not much else.

Breeding? In Gen VII there's an NPC that tells you that an Everstone makes hatchling have the same nature as the parent that carries it, and another that tells you that Pokémon of differing languages produce eggs more often. And that's it. Nothing about other items with breeding effects, Egg Moves, Ability inheritance, IV inheritance, Poké Ball inheritance, egg groups, egg steps... nope.

STAB? It took until Gen IV for the game to mention it. At least, as far as I can remember.

Evolution? BW2 had that neat Bianca call to tell you how to evolve a Pokémon, but it was never reused.

Type chart? Only the Pokétch app in Gen IV showed it in-game.

Move, item and ability descriptions? Hah, good luck getting all the info you need from it *stares at Water Bubble*

Base stats, learnset and possible abilities? Nope. At least the learnset is shown through the new Move Reminder.

And I might be forgetting about other things.

Well S/M onward shows the type chart for a Pokemon's moves versus the current opponent... after you've fought that Pokemon for the first time, and only in battle. (and I think people threw a stink about it, and of course it doesn't account for ability, so feel free to EQ that Levitating Weezing. Knowing Game Freak, this feature will probably be absent in Sword and Shield)