A lot of things lost access to Toxic because it is no longer a TM in generation 8 and there is no past generation transfer method at this point (hence dexit). Please keep questions like this for the SQSA in the future, thanks.
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Pokémon Dracovish
- Thread starter Marigold
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can I just point out that this abomination of nature may just be the best fossil Pokémon we’ve had since Aerodactyl?
oh boy. let me check.
based on the calculator, a max-damage dracovish set does 59-70% of health to a Ferrothorn, while water bubble does 79-93% damage to ferrothorn, which makes sense considering we're loosing the strongjaw boost.
Ironically, Dracovish already does so much damage that this boost is nominal at best for 90% of situations, sense most pokemon either die in 1 hit or fall into 2 hit KO range. The only situation I can see the damage boost being useful is against a Toxapex, which makes fishous rend a 2 hit KO garenteed instead of onlya 10.2% chance.
So while there is also the burn immunity and 8x water resistence, there are definitly better skill-swap users available.
Thanks. jesus, so this thing is so strong that its considered overkill to pass a water bubble to it... thats kinda nuts. Seriously, the best water boosting ability in the game is considered overkill with this pokemon and move...
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 141-167 (46.3 - 54.9%)
So, Adamant Banded Strong Jaw Fishious Rend has a very good shot at 2HKO-ing Max Def Toxapex, with no rain. And that's without any random crit happening.
This basically means you need to have Seismitoad, Jellicent, Vaporeon or some other water absorb mon on your team, because any other "wall" is incapable of stopping it. And if your water absorb mon gets KO'd at any other point in the match, it's GG. Max def Corsola-G takes 78-93% and max def Ferrothorn takes 44-53%. Idk who at GF thought giving STAB Explosion with no drawbacks was a good idea. If this mon doesn't get looked at later for being extremely restricting for team building I'll be surprised.
So, Adamant Banded Strong Jaw Fishious Rend has a very good shot at 2HKO-ing Max Def Toxapex, with no rain. And that's without any random crit happening.
This basically means you need to have Seismitoad, Jellicent, Vaporeon or some other water absorb mon on your team, because any other "wall" is incapable of stopping it. And if your water absorb mon gets KO'd at any other point in the match, it's GG. Max def Corsola-G takes 78-93% and max def Ferrothorn takes 44-53%. Idk who at GF thought giving STAB Explosion with no drawbacks was a good idea. If this mon doesn't get looked at later for being extremely restricting for team building I'll be surprised.
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A lot of people, myself included, have been using Baneful Bunker for this and for Choice Scarf variants in Rain. It can cripple Dracovish significantly as well as minimize the chances of it 2HKOing, assuming both spreads from the calc remain a constant in the equation.
I still believe that Dracovish is devastating and it being as strong as it is leads to a lot of the usage of Seismitoad (as well as the occasional Jellicent and Vaporeon sighting, as you allude to), but I do think that there are a small handful of other options to keep it in check, such as Baneful Bunker Toxapex.
Man, imagine having stab boltbeam and be slow af, if that's not a joke God did on you I don't know what is, an abomination in every sense of the word.
Nah dude, Rotom-F got nothing on this, I get it, even though from BW onward the power creep fucked things up 86 still isn't slow like arct, as a matter of fact, if you look at Rotom-F during various generations, including DP where it's ghost, (but the speed stat is the same anyway and you still have Rotom-A as a choice scarf user) you'll find scarf as a set, and you at the very least need ok or above speed to consider such, or a very specific niche such as magnet pull Magnezone which can't even outspeed Starmie sadly, for example:
Rotom-A outspeeds Breloom, Heatran, base 80s like Mamoswine or Dragonite, adamant Lucario, Cm3 Suicune, Gyarados and so on, Scarf was very useful in order to check dd threats, as none of them outspeed Rotom, and it also gave you the ability to check a great deal of speed boosters like Dragonite, modest Empoleon, Gyarados etc.
Bw is when it got cursed with ice type, but it's immune to ground and got Volt Switch so at least it could try being a pivot in lower tiers, xy ou had its speed tier do an important job in checking Altaria 70% of times, sm did pretty much the same, ss ou I don't use rotom-f, but I used several times Rotom-h or w scarf, where you can do a bunch of nifty stuff like outspeeding and tricking scarf on Kommo as it setup, outspeed Gyarados at +1, neutral scarf darmanitan, non scarf Dragapult, Gengar, Dracovish etc, all this wouldn't be possible if you had a terrible 55 base speed. Point being, yes, Rotom-f became a trashmon the moment it gained ice type, but lack of speed was never one of its fault.
Oh right, forgot, the famous volturn strategy popularized in bw, it had stuff like Landorus, i then t, celebi and Rotom-w, most of the time scarf, again.
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Agreed. You can counter it, IF.....*3 options here*. Should be looked at, simply for its restricting nature. Can't even call it a counter anymore when you need an optimal situation to be able to (no rain, full health, etc).
It's a skewed metagame when you have to prepare for a certain pokemon with limited options, who then become ubiquitous, and then in turn have to be prepared for, it doesn't leave a lot of room for teambuilding.
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I've been wondering for a while now, what has stopped Dracovish from being banned? Even Dracovish's counters thus far can be dealt with using moves like Crunch (G-Corsola), Psychic Fangs (Toxapex), and Ice Fang (Appletun). G-Darmanitan has already gotten the boot to Uber, and part of me thinks Dracovish may not be far behind.
Darmanitan was way harder to keep in check, Dracovish is super centralizing but there are consistent ways to stall it, its wallbreaking power outside of Fishious Rend is notably mediocre, Seismitoad blocks it entirely while providing utility and it generally has matchups that aren't 100% in its favor.
Compared to Darmanitan destroying the majority of its "checks" by clicking earthquake and getting a U-turn off of 140 base attack with 1.5x boost at minimum, it controls match momentum to an obscene degree once it's on the field and almost any team could be made better by having it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Dracovish or Dugtrio is next on the chopping block, but it's understandably not as much of a priority as Darmanitan was and each time something is banned the metagame changes considerably so it's best to let the changes simmer for a bit before moving on.
I can only assume the people calling Vish's Outrage "Weak" are talking about the Jolly Scarf set, because the Adamant Band set 2HKOs every relevant Water immunity in the tier even if they run suboptimal max/max spreads.
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 217-256 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 229-271 (53.7 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 246-291 (53 - 62.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 226-267 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 217-256 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 229-271 (53.7 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 246-291 (53 - 62.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 226-267 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Clicking Outrage is a pretty big risk though, with all the steels and fairies running around and potentially providing them with a somewhat free turn while you're forced to do it for potentially another turn after the switch.
Still ooph, guess you can't underestimate a banded 120 bp STAB move.
EDIT: Wait nvm, switching in a fairy type would stop Outrage and allow you to switch.
Still, it CAN be played around "more easily" than darm
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F for your necrobump, too. Locking
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