Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[ayevon]

But yeah, the dog and the fish probably need to end up being be banned, especially if Tera stays, but probably even without it. None of them have actual switch ins, an alarming number of games come down to dog sacred swords speed ties

 

[alephgalactus]

I knew I was onto something with Dragonite being absolutely going nuts on the tier since Bundle got the boot. You can see the Tera Normal on it coming from a mile away but it's quite easy to get up a +1 DD and sweep with ESpeed if you come in on anything slightly passive. I'm not going to say I'm a top tier teambuilder by any means, but I do think I make some good teams and right now I find Dragonite and Chi-Yu to be the main offensive threats I have to think about when making a team.

Yeah, I think Dragonite might need a suspect at some point. Especially with Grimmsnarl’s screens and/or a Shed Tail sub from Cyclizar helping out Multiscale, it’s basically guaranteed at least one Dragon Dance, and usually gets off two or more. Nothing viable except Corviknight, Air Balloon Gholdengo, and Ting-Lu can beat the combination of Tera ESpeed and Earthquake once it sets up.

But yeah, the dog and the fish probably need to end up being be banned, especially if Tera stays, but probably even without it. None of them have actual switch ins, an alarming number of games come down to dog sacred swords speed ties

What kind of dogs have you been hanging around? Chien-Pao is a sabertooth tiger.

 

[Astroblastyt]

hi there first time posting here, i wanna ask for tips to improve this ou team:

draco (Cyclizar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shed Tail
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Fang

toxicus (Iron Moth) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fiery Dance
- Flamethrower
- Discharge

pin cussion (Pincurchin) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Curse
- Discharge
- Poison Jab
- Spikes

za hando (Iron Hands) @ Life Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Brick Break

buggy wuggy (Slither Wing) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- First Impression
- Flame Charge
- Earthquake

Homo duck (Quaquaval) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Step
- Brick Break
- Close Combat
- Encore
thank you in advace for the help

 

[Critaquil]

Tyrannitar is the single best Chi-Yu switchin outside of Blissey. Unfortunately, Ttar is unviable in this metagame. In a meta with Meowscarada, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, Dondozo, Annihilape, omnipresent Tera Fighting and Water, and so on, almost everything in the tier either has supereffective STAB or supereffective coverage vs. Tyrannitar. Its poor typing finally caught up with it. It's a bit sad, really. TTar's reign since gen 2 was powerful and awe inspiring, and now it's gone. Nothing is forever. we are simply taking a temporary break from a quiet nothingness and spending our blip in the tiny cosmic timeline playing with made-up monsters on our computer. Like Tyrannitar, our reign over nonexistence will soon end.

on the contrary, ttar is very strong in this meta imo, yes it has checks, but it also is a great defensive presence that allows it to check many special threats without being nearly as passive as blissey, and I think that you're dismissing of tyranitar is a bit odd here, lets take a look at some of the swichins you listed:
even an uninvested stone edge does 50, hates getting twaved
good counter, but having counters doesn't make something unviable; it makes them healthy
this thing REALLY hates getting twaved, especially booster energy sets that don't even want to come out till they're ready to sweep
this thing checks litterally every physical threat under the sun, but also letting dozo get chipped is if anything a good thing for you since BO (the main playstyle you'd see ttar on) has more than enough available checks to dondozo and its passivity can be easily exploited
okay yeah letting this thing in is never a great thing, but also ape dislikes passive damage that doesn't trigger its move to grow stronger and as such dislikes sticking around in sand
tera fighting and water things: A, ttar isn't even 2hko'd by most of them and B, for every tera type it struggles with theres another it absolutly stomps, you could use tera typings as an argument for why any mon is checked by anything.

Tl;Dr: ttar is good stop the hate

 

[Bakugames]

I found ttar really good tbh! While there's things that counter it, I've been able to pair with stuff like dondozo, nacl, corvi that has good synergy with its weakness and vice versa. Sand chip is also really good vs HO and thunder wave is really nice

 

[alephgalactus]

Tyrannitar is the single best Chi-Yu switchin outside of Blissey. Unfortunately, Ttar is unviable in this metagame. In a meta with Meowscarada, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, Dondozo, Annihilape, omnipresent Tera Fighting and Water, and so on, almost everything in the tier either has supereffective STAB or supereffective coverage vs. Tyrannitar. It’s poor typing finally caught up with it. It's a bit sad, really. TTar's reign since gen 2 was powerful and awe inspiring, and now it's gone. Nothing is forever. we are simply taking a temporary break from a quiet nothingness and spending our blip in the tiny cosmic timeline playing with made-up monsters on our computer. Like Tyrannitar, our reign over nonexistence will soon end.

Tyranitar’s perfectly viable in the current meta. Being the only thing that can reliably switch in on Chi-Yu even Tera’d in the sun is a very good niche to have, and that’s nowhere near all it has going for it. It massively disrupts Sun teams just by existing, it can 1v1 Gholdengo after a DDance, it blocks Parting Shot from Grimmsnarl, it beats Dragapult, and it can make Garganacl even more salt-inducing by giving it a Sp. Def boost.

 

[dsbruce]

I found ttar really good tbh! While there's things that counter it, I've been able to pair with stuff like dondozo, nacl, corvi that has good synergy with its weakness and vice versa. Sand chip is also really good vs HO and thunder wave is really nice

Defensive ttar plus a relatively self-sufficient Mon like tera Dirge that can sit with goggles on and boost in the face of the opponent taking sand chip is pretty alright.

 

[ritch.]

View attachment 469442
Homo duck (Quaquaval) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Step
- Brick Break
- Close Combat
- Encore

Prestige 200 light skin

 

[Astroblastyt]

Prestige 200 light skin

i was considering naming my homo duck drake at first
lol

 

[MrE]

Yeah, I think Dragonite might need a suspect at some point. Especially with Grimmsnarl’s screens and/or a Shed Tail sub from Cyclizar helping out Multiscale, it’s basically guaranteed at least one Dragon Dance, and usually gets off two or more. Nothing viable except Corviknight, Air Balloon Gholdengo, and Ting-Lu can beat the combination of Tera ESpeed and Earthquake once it sets up.

What kind of dogs have you been hanging around? Chien-Pao is a sabertooth tiger.

Doesn't it run tpunch for corv?

 

[alephgalactus]

Doesn't it run tpunch for corv?

I run DDance/ESpeed/EQ/Roost, but I don’t find myself using Roost too often so I might switch to TPunch.

 

[CarrierPidove]

Defensive core duos feel incredibly strong right now. Something like ting + corvi. I think partly this has to do with tera allowing them to function as practically two different mons as needed allowing the core to blanket check so much more than it usually would. Almost let’s you play balance without actually going full balance.

which defensive duo is most potent right now in your opinion? I really like the ting + corvi duo mentioned above, but I haven’t explored a ton beyond that.

I've been having loads of fun with dondozo, skeledirge both can deal with each others checks decently enough and have great longevity and even a chance to break through slower teams

 

[FuzzyPckls]

Apologies if I'm interrupting a conversation, but I was lurking on this thread as a guest for ideas on teambuilding before I remembered I actually made an account here, so now I can hopefully make a decent contribution to you all. I do have to go to work soon, but I'll read back on this chat later in case I can join any conversations afterward.

I fell in love with Maushold when I first learned about it because it's such a goofy design yet it's so adorable at the same time. I was excited to hear all the discussion surrounding it in the early days of the meta, hoping it would end up being an OU or UU staple considering it had two exclusive moves this gen, both of which looked pretty good on their own. However, it seems to have more trouble now that Rocky Helmet is seeing pretty notable usage, and sets like Rough Skin Rocky Helmet Garchomp especially give it a tough time. Its only really viable item is Wide Lens so just using Protective Pads isn't as easy of a fix as I would've hoped, but I was determined to still find some way to use the House of Mouse. Unfortunately, I'm not exactly a good teambuilder and I give my apologies in advance for the potential horrors this set may bring.

Maushold @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Normal
Jolly Nature
- Super Fang
- U-Turn/Bite/Aerial Ace
- Tidy Up
- Population Bomb

This is more of a set you put on a Balance or maybe a Hyper Offense team with screens, but the idea here is pretty much to act as bait for Rocky Helmet users. You make them think you want to set up and Population Bomb their entire team, and then you nail them with a Super Fang and take half their health instead of outright dying from helmet recoil before they go down. This set trades sweeping potential for some decent surprise factor, though I haven't tested it out on the ladder due to my general lack of confidence in battling.

U-Turn is great for pivoting, and you can use it in case you predict the helmet user will switch out. Otherwise, you can try and hard switch into something that has some sort of bulk (Skeledirge for example, can deal with Corviknight or Will-O-Wisp a Garchomp next turn). Worst-case scenario, you take the extra helmet damage by using U-Turn again and switch that way to let a teammate deal with the helmet user. If you'd prefer to trade pivoting potential for extra coverage, you can replace U-Turn with either Bite to deal with Ghost types or Aerial Ace to deal with Fighting types.

Tidy Up is useful against Cyclizar leads and Substitute, though do be weary of Knock Off. It's damn near required to set up one of these to do super meaningful damage since Maushold has a pretty pitiful base 75 Attack, though having at least +1 should be good. Maushold isn't what I'd consider a good defogger, but it's at least something funny that it can do.

Finally, if you're not running Population Bomb, there's no real point in using Maushold in the first place. You can try to use your tera to nuke with Population Bomb, though I wouldn't recommend committing your tera to Maushold that often if you have better options. It still does pretty respectable damage of course, but on this set, you lack an attack that boosts stats like Trailblaze, and you won't have good coverage moves like Bite or Aerial Ace if you decide to keep U-Turn. This makes it risky to try and turn it into a set-up sweeper without your threats being neutralized first. Having one of your coverage moves makes sweeping a bit easier, but you still risk being run over by whatever type your coverage move can't hit for super-effective damage.

If you swap your coverage moves for Super Fang and U-Turn, this set will struggle a lot against Ghost, Fighting, and Steel types, practically requiring them to be gone or for you to outspeed to have a chance at sweeping. You'll definitely need Pokemon like Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, or Iron Valiant to help your matchup against them, and Defensive pokemon like Skeledirge, Bulky Garchomp, or even Great Tusk, Dondozo, or Tyranitar could help as well. However, if you decide to use either Bite or Aerial Ace, you can focus more of your team on dealing with either Fighting types or Ghost types (depending on which move you're running) while adding a pokemon or two with pivoting potential.

Does Noivern do this job infinitely better? Probably. Is Maushold funnier? I sure hope so.

edit: just fixed some of my awful grammar

 

[BolTingBlazie]

it's not uncompetitive though, and definitely not for the same reasons baton pass was, bp was broken for its ability to pass stat boosts to pokemon that absolutely were not supposed to have those kinds of boosts (see: speed boost scolipede passing speed boosts to various sweepers that can't fit a speed boosting move) sub passing was always one of the least problematic elements of baton pass, calling it "uncompetitive" also just feels like a buzzword in this case, it's not adding more rng than usual to the game, its not inherently matchup fishy, and it still does in theory reward the better player. I'm personally neutral on shed tail, but if you're gonna argue for it to be banned, I encourage you to argue as to why it is broken in its own merits rather than argue that it's uncompetitive for its similarities to a far more problematic move than this one.

It is problematic because just one free pivot is typically all you need to enable some of your most monstrous sweepers that could end games outright, and gives you an unfair advantage since there is less opportunity cost to run shed tail than substitute since you keep momentum with shed tail. There is far less opportunity cost and it makes certain pokemon much harder to beat due to the nature of the move.

Dragon dance Dragonite can end games outright if behind shedtail since the shed tail keeps the momentum of scarf cyclizar and bring dnite in safely without having to run sub on dnite in order to try and sweep. All you need is one sub for dnite since multiscale takes subs into account and you can typically get enough dragon dances off to try and end a game outright. These are the qualities that make shed tail problematic, not just the fact that it is similar to baton pass in some ways.

 

[Sad Ken]

Apologies if I'm interrupting a conversation, but I was lurking on this thread as a guest for ideas on teambuilding before I remembered I actually made an account here, so now I can hopefully make a decent contribution to you all. I do have to go to work soon, but I'll read back on this chat later in case I can join any conversations afterward.

I fell in love with Maushold when I first learned about it because it's such a goofy design yet it's so adorable at the same time. I was excited to hear all the discussion surrounding it in the early days of the meta, hoping it would end up being an OU or UU staple considering it had two exclusive moves this gen, both of which looked pretty good on their own. However, it seems to have more trouble now that Rocky Helmet is seeing pretty notable usage, and sets like Rough Skin Rocky Helmet Garchomp especially give it a tough time. Its only really viable item is Wide Lens so just using Protective Pads isn't as easy of a fix as I would've hoped, but I was determined to still find some way to use the House of Mouse. Unfortunately, I'm not exactly a good teambuilder and I give my apologies in advance for the potential horrors this set may bring.

Maushold @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Normal
Jolly Nature
- Super Fang
- U-Turn/Bite/Aerial Ace
- Tidy Up
- Population Bomb

This is more of a set you put on a Balance or maybe a Hyper Offense team with screens, but the idea here is pretty much to act as bait for Rocky Helmet users. You make them think you want to set up and Population Bomb their entire team, and then you nail them with a Super Fang and take half their health instead of outright dying from helmet recoil before they go down. This set trades sweeping potential for some decent surprise factor, though I haven't tested it out on the ladder due to my general lack of confidence in battling.

U-Turn is great for pivoting, and you can use it in case you predict the helmet user will switch out. Otherwise, you can try and hard switch into something that has some sort of bulk (Skeledirge for example, can deal with Corviknight or Will-O-Wisp a Garchomp next turn). Worst-case scenario, you take the extra helmet damage by using U-Turn again and switch that way to let a teammate deal with the helmet user. If you'd prefer to trade pivoting potential for extra coverage, you can replace U-Turn with either Bite to deal with Ghost types or Aerial Ace to deal with Fighting types.

Tidy Up is useful against Cyclizar leads and Substitute, though do be weary of Knock Off. It's damn near required to set up one of these to do super meaningful damage since Maushold has a pretty pitiful base 75 Attack, though having at least +1 should be good. Maushold isn't what I'd consider a good defogger, but it's at least something funny that it can do.

Finally, if you're not running Population Bomb, there's no real point in using Maushold in the first place. You can try to use your tera to nuke with Population Bomb, though I wouldn't recommend committing your tera to Maushold that often if you have better options. It still does pretty respectable damage of course, but on this set, you lack an attack that boosts stats like Trailblaze, and you won't have good coverage moves like Bite or Aerial Ace if you decide to keep U-Turn. This makes it risky to try and turn it into a set-up sweeper without your threats being neutralized first. Having one of your coverage moves makes sweeping a bit easier, but you still risk being run over by whatever type your coverage move can't hit for super-effective damage.

If you swap your coverage moves for Super Fang and U-Turn, this set will struggle a lot against Ghost, Fighting, and Steel types, practically requiring them to be gone or for you to outspeed to have a chance at sweeping. You'll definitely need Pokemon like Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, or Iron Valiant to help your matchup against them, and Defensive pokemon like Skeledirge, Bulky Garchomp, or even Great Tusk, Dondozo, or Tyranitar could help as well. However, if you decide to use either Bite or Aerial Ace, you can focus more of your team on dealing with either Fighting types or Ghost types (depending on which move you're running) while adding a pokemon or two with pivoting potential.

Does Noivern do this job infinitely better? Probably. Is Maushold funnier? I sure hope so.

edit: just fixed some of my awful grammar

From my limited experience, it's difficult to bring in given how frail it is, so having it get in twice (one to chunk Garchomp and the next to potentially sweep) would be extremely tough. Its biggest nemesis, RH Corviknight, can Roost off the Super Fang easy enough and U-Turn is doing around 2% to it, while Maus is taking 8 times that in chip damage. Not to mention losing coverage on Ghosts would really hurt.

I love how Maus looks, but I've not had much joy in using it, unfortunately. Feel you about the battling part though, I spend way too long theorying and not nearly enough time battling.

 

[SuperBabyMode44]

Summing majority of discussions in 2 sentences or less for people to TL;DR.

Bans
Too fast, too strong, too inconsistent to counter. Obnoxious and the playerbase hated facing it, both at preview and in TB. Banned.
On paper, balanced(?); in practice, its just physical Kyogre , but faster and with a higher attacking stat. Oh, and priority. Good luck. Banned.
Mega-Delibird's greatest gift to OU was leaving it behind. Perfect coverage, too fast (and physically bulky) to check offensively, especially once this guy slaps on a scarf. Banned.
He's coming back, (probably), guys. Chill out. Temp-Banned.

Rader'd/Potentially Radar'd
Super annoying, fast mon that can repeatedly give free switches to its teammates. Big team player that lets frail-er mons get a shot in the limelight.
Nemo in the sun is genuinely nuclear. Can be revenge killed, cannot be reliably defensively checked.
The funny mozzarella stick is the greatest OU spinblocker of all time bar none (ORAS ), and has 100 million support sets that each have their own offensive presence.
Damn-boy-he-thick.mp4. Fantastic physical sponge that can dish it out to an astronomical degree. Arguably the biggest abuser of Tera as a mechanic atm.


Staples/Potential Staples
Tinted Lens is a fantastic pokémon. Good priority, good damage; bit of a glass cannon given its typing.
New Fat #1. Is great at shutting down offensive threats and forcing them out. Definitely a stall staple that can also fit on BO teams. Loves Tera.
One of the most fun offensive mons that can easily snowball early in a game. Definitely some 4MSS in terms of balancing coverage and power output, but a great addition.
New Fat #2. This is literally just physical Blissey with shitty recovery.
A rock type that can force out both Steel and Water types is a fantastic addition, great for punishing the spammable water-tera that seems to benefit every mon. Still loses to the vast majority of fighting and ground coverage running around.
Mega-Mamboswine with better typing and coverage.
New Fat #3. No real recovery besides rest and , but the sheer bulk it has is fantastic. Consistent hazard setter for BO teams. Personally I think it'll be more of a staple than Glimmora, but thats subjective and team-dependant too.
New Fat #4. Not the greatest typing but gets a lot of mileage out of mindgames between its two main abilities.
Mega-Weavile with two stab priorities, and coverage. Reminiscent of Kartana in a way, but definitely isn't as good. Has the same bulk as a piece of paper though.
Yep, they're going up.
The biggest 50/50 mon in the game. Sometimes it just sweeps off preview, sometimes it can't even collect a kill.
The return of the king of OU. He is choosing HO for his breakfast.
Dual Hazards chomp is fantastic. Beats Ting-Lu out as a phazing hazard-setter but doesn't have a same versatility that Ruination gives TL.

Underrated/UU Picks:
Fast, hits hard. Protean nerf is definitely felt. Not the greatest typing, wants to Tera Fighting for coverage but still is at risk for getting blown up by Brave Bird.
The lightskin duck is just a wannabe Palafin. Bulk Up/Swords Dance and Banded are its only real sets.
Unfortunately forced to run to be effective in any capacity; fun gimmick though.
Also has a bit of 50/50 syndrome, coupled with 4MSS. Very cool ability, could definitely see potential as OU, but needs more exploration and discussion.
Tries to be Ekiller, multiscale goes a long way. Forced to run boots given that hazards seem to be here to stay.

Feel free to contribute or offer corrections. Just making a tl;dr to sum up the discussions offered up to this point.

 

[Rothj]

I'm working on a semi stall team with my only threats being chi-yu and iron valiant. I'm thinking about making my two special defense walls clodsire and vaporeon - vaporeon gets water absorb(for rain teams, I want clodsire to have unaware) and wish. It can resist chi-yu in sun I believe but haven't really tested it.

For my two defensive walls, I was originally thinking corviknight and garg but the problem is they both lose to iron hands. Maybe amoongus and corviknight is better? Wondering if anyone has some crazy suggestions that tank iron hands effectively while also covering for things that beat corviknight. Or if I could replace corv that might be good too. Amoongus/corv are both weak to fire which is an issue.

 

[iLiekMudkipz_]

Chi-Yu @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot / Flame Charge / Psychic / Taunt


this thing, evil creature, this demonic little guppy, very-icky-no-good-fishe
While I am writing this post, the ability Beads of Ruin does not work on the damage calculator. I compensated for this by simply changing the Pokemon's special defense stat to 75% of what it normally was (For Example, Clodsire would be calc'd with base 75 special defense instead of base 100)

I think chi-yu is a particularly strong force in the meta right now and it, in my opinion, deserves a suspect.

Chi-Yu is splashable onto HO, balance, and fat teams that rule the meta so far. Fire and Dark are incredibly hard to stop defensively. Its base 135 special in conjunction with Beads of Ruin, an ability that lowers the opponent's Special Defense, makes this pokemon unwallable.

The only moves necessary on Chi-Yu are Overheat, Flamethrower, and Dark Pulse. The fourth slot can be anything, really. Flame charge is a niche on Sun teams that allows Chi-Yu to clean up with sun boosted Flamethrower. Not the most consistent, but funny when you pull it off. Taunt and Nasty plot are the best, naturally, as Taunt shuts down recovery for its bulky switchins and Nasty Plot takes its power to the next level. Psychic is just there if you really want to ruin Toxapex's day, but Toxapex isn't that great anymore due to the move nerfs it recieved (honest to god pex has no moves anymore im about to run god-forsaken body slam pex for para hax)

As for checks to the glowing guppy, there aren't many.

The only true "counter" is Blissey, but she can still take a beating from the fish.
(252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 378-445 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

Clodsire and Toxapex can attempt to take it on with sheer bulk. However, Clodsire is needed to check the entire tier as of now, and it only has 8 recovers per game to do so. Clodsire gets claimed by 2 Flamethrowers at +2 (+2 252 SpA Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 378-445 (81.4 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

Toxapex is almost guaranteed to go down to 2 Dark Pulses, (+2 252 SpA Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 151-178 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO)

Dondozo can take a specs Dark Pulse and Rest off the damage. However, It cannot do anything back to Chi-Yu unless it uses the semi-unreliable Sleep Talk. (which, for me, always uses rest.) (252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dondozo: 180-213 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO).

Tyrannitar is the single best Chi-Yu switchin outside of Blissey. Unfortunately, Ttar is unviable in this metagame. In a meta with Meowscarada, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, Dondozo, Annihilape, omnipresent Tera Fighting and Water, and so on, almost everything in the tier either has supereffective STAB or supereffective coverage vs. Tyrannitar. Its poor typing finally caught up with it. It's a bit sad, really. TTar's reign since gen 2 was powerful and awe inspiring, and now it's gone. Nothing is forever. we are simply taking a temporary break from a quiet nothingness and spending our blip in the tiny cosmic timeline playing with made-up monsters on our computer. Like Tyrannitar, our reign over nonexistence will soon end.

anyways these are the most reliable Chi-Yu switchins

Dragonite can Dragon Dance in its face if it isn't Choiced, Nasty Plot, or is locked into a Fire move. These aren't uncommon scenarios, but outside of them a mighty dragon will fold to a goldfish.

Ting-Lu can stomach some hits, but Specs Flamethrower and Specs Overheat will eventually wear it down (252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ting-Lu: 262-310 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

in conclusion, please take a look at this fish. I think it needs a ban.

1: As to the point about Clodsire, you forget that Wish clerics like Vaporeon exist, right?
2: This thing isn't very bulky, and 100 speed tier is very feasable to outspeed. So if you have a speedy physical mon with a super effective move, well... YIPPIE KAI YAY
3: Meowscarda isnt in the metagame, I never see tera fighting, and tera steel exists
4: Chi-yu still broken, just not as broken

 

[Rothj]

1: As to the point about Clodsire, you forget that Wish clerics like Vaporeon exist, right?
2: This thing isn't very bulky, and 100 speed tier is very feasable to outspeed. So if you have a speedy physical mon with a super effective move, well... YIPPIE KAI YAY
3: Meowscarda isnt in the metagame, I never see tera fighting, and tera steel exists
4: Chi-yu still broken, just not as broken

I think saying meowscarada isn't in the metagame is extremely incorrect.

 

[Negative Charge]

I looked into my crystal ball and see that Annihilape and Chi-Yu will ultimately be banned. Both have been discussed at length and both are super busted. Chi-Yu in particular reminds me of Gen 6 Hoopa-U, just a brainless nuke that dismantles bulky teams. There's really no good options for even switching into its stabs rn.

 

[1LDK]

Ive been trying something extremly out of meta and never before seen called rain
did you guys know that can summon rain? no? i understand, rain fucking sucks, it no longer has good abusers outside of a handfull, and i feel like im need of teammates, bulky grass, attackers that trully benefit rain, Pelipper lost fucking defog for no reason, why gamefreak, its a fucking bird. also mons like Chien Pao, Sandy Shocks, breloom and many others can just punch you untill your gone

if theres one good thing i took out of this experience is
Tatsugiri @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Nasty Plot
Utility mon, rapid spin + nasty plot can serve as a nice sweeper, The legendary water + dragon combo that its only walled right now by Water Absorb Clodsire

On another different topic, ive been using Wo-Chien for a while and i dont know if it just me but Wo its just too pasive, and can take a hit to save its life, it also a toxic + uturn magnet, im gonna keep trying out of meta things but this doesnt look too cool

 

[Critaquil]

Ive been trying something extremly out of meta and never before seen called rain
did you guys know that can summon rain? no? i understand, rain fucking sucks, it no longer has good abusers outside of a handfull, and i feel like im need of teammates, bulky grass, attackers that trully benefit rain, Pelipper lost fucking defog for no reason, why gamefreak, its a fucking bird. also mons like Chien Pao, Sandy Shocks, breloom and many others can just punch you untill your gone

if theres one good thing i took out of this experience is
Tatsugiri @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Nasty Plot
Utility mon, rapid spin + nasty plot can serve as a nice sweeper, The legendary water + dragon combo that its only walled right now by Water Absorb Clodsire

On another different topic, ive been using Wo-Chien for a while and i dont know if it just me but Wo its just too pasive, and can take a hit to save its life, it also a toxic + uturn magnet, im gonna keep trying out of meta things but this doesnt look too cool

while rain is pretty bad, a mon that I think has gone under the radar for rain is floatzel, floatzel gained access to wave crash, meaning it actually outputs more damage than baraskewda does with liquidation, its also got better bulk, allowing it to better utilize its recoil move and giving it more switchin opportunities

 

[Moyashi]

on the contrary, ttar is very strong in this meta imo, yes it has checks, but it also is a great defensive presence that allows it to check many special threats without being nearly as passive as blissey, and I think that you're dismissing of tyranitar is a bit odd here, lets take a look at some of the swichins you listed:
even an uninvested stone edge does 50, hates getting twaved
good counter, but having counters doesn't make something unviable; it makes them healthy
this thing REALLY hates getting twaved, especially booster energy sets that don't even want to come out till they're ready to sweep
this thing checks litterally every physical threat under the sun, but also letting dozo get chipped is if anything a good thing for you since BO (the main playstyle you'd see ttar on) has more than enough available checks to dondozo and its passivity can be easily exploited
okay yeah letting this thing in is never a great thing, but also ape dislikes passive damage that doesn't trigger its move to grow stronger and as such dislikes sticking around in sand
tera fighting and water things: A, ttar isn't even 2hko'd by most of them and B, for every tera type it struggles with theres another it absolutly stomps, you could use tera typings as an argument for why any mon is checked by anything.

Tl;Dr: ttar is good stop the hate

Respectfully disagree. Ttar, spdef sets anyway, are really horribly passive. There aren't that many special attackers it matches into well and the few it does tend to have tech to beat it. Chi-Yu can wisp it, to say nothing of Ttar eating hazard damage very often. Espathra can tech fighting tera for it, Dragapult just uturns on its face, Iron Moth can chip with energy ball... Ttar also lets in a ton of dangerous physical stuff, and we have many great ground types that stuff it. Ttar isn't even a great stealth rocker imo and it struggles to do anything beyond checking Chi-Yu. Offensive sets are outclassed, and defensive sets are just not good. After the Houndstone ban, I have barely seen any Ttar anywhere. I would not be surprised to see Ttar in UU when the time comes.

Mega-Weavile with two stab priorities, and coverage. Reminiscent of Kartana in a way, but definitely isn't as good. Has the same bulk as a piece of paper though.

Also has a bit of 50/50 syndrome, coupled with 4MSS. Very cool ability, could definitely see potential as OU, but needs more exploration and discussion

It so many times better than Kartana. What are you talking about? Meanwhile Bax is very good so I don't at all see it dropping.

On another note...

7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?

7. Breloom! It's nice to see it come back and put in solid work. Got some pretty decent buffs this gen so I hope to see more experimenting with it as the meta develops. Though I find it odd how ladder hasn't really been using it that much despite how it checks several relevant threats.
8. I think punching glove is cool. Would probably be better in a meta with lots of rocky helmet usage. But i love loaded dice making multi hit moves like icicle spear and bullet seed way more reliable as moves. Breloom uses it nicely but I have seen clever use of it on DD Baxcalibur as well. Fun item.

 

[leng loi]

Stumbled into a bit of a teambuilding/laddering block since the waters got banned, but I've still been having some fun trying to figure out the meta a bit and playing with some of the more unorthodox new mons. Namely, this chonky dude right here.

(how metal is that)

Wo-Chien is appealing for a lot of reasons despite some glaring weaknesses. On one hand, dedicating a slot to a specially defensive mon on Balance/BO that doesn't offer hazards or removal and has nightmares about Chi-Yu feels very constraining. However, I've found that it offers a deceptively large amount of utility against offense, with the ability to remove boots, provide consistent chip with leech seed, and even spread paralysis on would-be switch-ins like Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, and Corviknight. It also provides a surprising amount of support in breaking defensive cores that rely on recovery moves due to Taunt and its relatively high speed tier for a defensive mon.

This is the set I've been running:

Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost/Poison/Fairy/Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Stun Spore/Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Taunt

These are pretty much the expected options for this thing, but I'll talk a bit about them in order. First, the tera types this thing can run really are crazy. People have commented in this thread and the tera-policy thread about how tera allows your defensive cores to feel resilient and customisable in way that's really cool. As such, the best type depends on whatever you need this thing to be able to take a hit from and Knock Off/Taunt in return. I think you can even add Water or Fighting to the list, though the main things I've wanted were a Bug resist and either a Fairy or Fighting resist. Embarassingly, I forgot where the EVs come from but I believe I wanted it to take a certain hit on the special side so I'm just sticking with this, a more mixed or physically bulky set might prove better.

Ok, so the elephant in the room is Stun Spore. I know, 75% accuracy feels really bad, but I pretty much only click this on the switch when I know I have a defensive answer to the incoming pokemon. But there are really a lot of things that feel great to be para'd that love to come in on this thing. Chi-Yu, Iron Moth, Volcarona, Chien-Pao, Annihilape, Roaring Moon. I really think that coming in on more passive pokemon or resists and para'ing key offensive mons that switch-in to deal with it is the key to whatever limited viability the snail can claim.

I also mentioned that there are some pretty heavy teambuilding constraints that this thing imposes on two fronts. First, it takes a slot for a defensive mon without playing the hazard game (though it can be argued that playing around Gholdengo, knocking off boots, and taunting setters/defoggers counts) and second, 2 kinds of relatively specific support.

The first, as has been discussed in this thread at length, is harder to come by, and that is a Chi-Yu switch-in. And the second is pretty easy and helpful to slot on a team, which is a way to punish U-Turn.

I'll quickly go over some partners that I've tried to accomplish these purposes:

- SpDef rocks has been getting love but Great Tusk usage is way up recently, I also tried Band and Specs, which were surprisingly effective.

-I didn't give this one a ton of time but AV seemed promising. Banded can be a one-time switch and appreciates paralysis, though.
Quaquaval - AV has been underwhelming. Fast isn't bulky enough and bulky isn't fast or strong enough. It getting spin is cute though.

- As others have mentioned, this thing is the star player of balance. U-Turn/Defog sets in particular mess with Gholdengo hazards, and can bring in Wo-Chien on the cheesetick to do its thing with Knock, Seeds, or Para. Rocky Helmet can quickly wears down U-turners including opposing Corvs.

- On the builds I tried that were more BO, this thing was impressive. Max HP + Speed is thriving this meta but I'll give a quick shout to Full Special Attacker with Draco/Fireblast/EQ/Spikes or SR and tera Fire.

Overall, I've had a lot of fun building and playing with this guy. I don't think it's very good in the grand scheme of things. It suffers from passivity, team building challenges, and often taking the tera slot from its teammates. However, the things it accomplishes against opposing balance squads, in addition to scoring some potentially key Knocks and Paras against offense are actually really valuable and isn't something any other single pokemon can really claim to do. Definitely recommend trying it out, and perhaps a better balance builder than me can make something truly disgusting with it.

 

[awyp]

I looked into my crystal ball and see that Annihilape and Chi-Yu will ultimately be banned. Both have been discussed at length and both are super busted. Chi-Yu in particular reminds me of Gen 6 Hoopa-U, just a brainless nuke that dismantles bulky teams. There's really no good options for even switching into its stabs rn.

Oh who do you know?

I think it's a fair call to assume both might get the banhammer but I do think there are probably more Pokemons still out that are more broken than Chi-Yu at least. It only has base 100 speed and yes it's ability Beads of Ruins can be very annoying and assisted with it's already high 135 base special attack it still gets walled by most special defensive oriented walls (especially if that Pokémon has unaware so Nasty Plot doesn't become a problem [Shoutout to Clodsire]). Cyclizar on the other hand is literally a matter of time before it gets tested, the combination of Shed Tail + Regenerator + 121 base Speed becomes a little OD in terms things you can do to prevent it from setting up or passing on a substitute.