To be completely honest myself, I'm beginning to doubt flovv's findings. Our ability to hit seeds within a range of +-20 is astounding given the not so infallible gcn controller mechanics. Sure, it is much more precise than human hands, but I doubt it's fast enough to get values that are mearly nearby, much less exact! I mean to go into vba soon and look at this firsthand. Oh, and I searched the thread for flovv's posts and he mentioned an offset of 4 ticks for the seed.