Ok I'm posting this because Alice is lazy (Wobbuffet "discussion")

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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Ok, I have Hippowdon out, having just switched into your Metagross. I use Stealth Rock as you switch to Shaymin, and then switch my Heracross into your Seed Flare. Seeing no reason to risk your Shaymin to MegaHorn, you switch to Skarmory, who takes negligable damage from MH + SR and recovers most of that with Leftovers. Feeling as though you have the upper hand again, you deem it safe to use a Stealth Rock of your own. I switch to Wobbuffet as you do that though, about to assert maybe once and for all that the blue blob is definitely more uber than OU.

Whatever, you just WW, not about to fall for being Countered. I use Encore, though, locking you into your previous Stealth Rock thanks to move priority. Not really phased, you wonder what I plan on switching to...you know I don't use Magnezone because I don't care enough about trapping Skarmory with it. What you don't know and won't for another seven turns is why I don't need Zone to beat Skarmory.

So anyway, stuck in your place, you hastily click the only button you can to see what I'm going to do next. To your surprise, I use Tickle, dropping your Attack and Defense one stage. I do this for the next three turns, refreshing the Encore as I see it run out. When you reach -6 Atk and Def, I finally switch out...to CB Tyranitar.

Adamant Tyranitar using an Choice Banded Pursuit on a 334HP/390Def (standard), switching, -6 Def Skarmory: 81-95%


Skarmory is effectively dead over 50% the second it switches back in if you can't get rid of Stealth Rock.

Pretty damn annoying, huh? Well, user Alice (Futami Eriko on Shoddy) has been employing this strategy for some time on the ladder, Skarmory being one of the most difficult pokemon to take down. Blissey, Bronzong, Hippowdon, Swampert, Cresselia...all fall victim to this strategy rather easily, or so I would think. I've only seen it used against Cresselia but Alice told me she actually succeeded in OHKOing an evidently poorly EVed Skarmory with Pursuit, and the scenario I crafted above is as unrigged as possible. Wobby can come in on Hippowdon's SR or Slack Off and do much the same as above, or Blissey's Softboiled or Aroma, or Cresselia in general (CB Tar doesn't need much help OHKOing it).

Tyranitar also works with Life Orb or even something like Muscle Band if you're not really worried about OHKOing Skarmory. Basically anything slow with a set up move that's not Curse risks being OHKOed by Tyranitar after being tickled by Wobbuffet. Bronzong even has the disadvantage of largely being slower than its 33 Base Speed cousin thanks to a Relaxed or Sassy nature, meaning that Stealth Rock will usually be Encored instead of Bronzong having a chance to directly attack or use Hypnosis. Hippowdon even has the disadvantage of not exactly wanting to EQ, since that will spell its doom in two turns in exchange for less than a 4HKO on Wobby even in the sand.

So all in all, losing Safeguard doesn't seem like too much of a disadvantage when you can treat Skarmory and Bronzong as if they were a Slowbro without anything to hit a (CB Pursuit) Tyranitar. This strategy is really, really easy to employ, almost to the point that it's "cheap". Thoughts?
 
It's cheap. I'm not against it though. Those people should prepare and have a (what is it?) shed something for switching out. Or sub or taunt. Use wobby if you know he has one and tickle them yourself? (Btw, why wouldn't you use Weavile? He is faster so you can KO sweepers too).
 
It's cheap. I'm not against it though. Those people should prepare and have a (what is it?) shed something for switching out. Or sub or taunt. Use wobby if you know he has one and tickle them yourself? (Btw, why wouldn't you use Weavile? He is faster so you can KO sweepers too).
It's called Shed Shell, and CBTar is more powerful, and way more bulkier.
 
That is a well thought out strategy, the only thing I would like to request is logs from some of your Shoddy Battles, this way I can see the ways you employed it and be able to find a way to destroy your strategy without a Shed Shell... Encore is definitely effective against walls we know this, but will this strategy work against Sweepers? Obviously, not against Special Sweepers but this can work against a Physical Sweeper if you are very good at predicting and have much experience. I am only stating this case, because I think this can cripple a Physical Sweeper. This is because Tickle also decreases Attack. I would like to see what you have to say, and your thoughts about this.
 
And you're afraid blissey is giong to KO you after being locked on a sucky move? That's why encore is there.
No I meant bulkier during the switch-ins, as Weavile is crippled with Flamethrower, and takes some damage from T-bolt as well, as for T-Tar, it can switch basically into any move (besides status), and hit her with a STABed CB Pursuit.
 
No I meant bulkier during the switch-ins, as Weavile is crippled with Flamethrower, and takes some damage from T-bolt as well, as for T-Tar, it can switch basically into any move (besides status), and hit her with a STABed CB Pursuit.
But a poke shouldn't be locked in such a move, because then there would be no need for Wobuffet to tickle, because he can just mirror coat. And status is also not an option because wobuffet would be crippled.
 
How does Wobbuffet learn Tickle exactly? It's mentioned in the SmogonDex analysis but it's not listed when I check on veekun or serebii's pokedex. Needless to say this is a great strategy and I want to make use of this for my Battle Tower team in some way.

EDIT: OK it's through NYPC apparently
 
But a poke shouldn't be locked in such a move, because then there would be no need for Wobuffet to tickle, because he can just mirror coat. And status is also not an option because wobuffet would be crippled.
You do have a point, which I missed, but many people would prefer T-Tar.
 
You do have a point, which I missed, but many people would prefer T-Tar.
That could be true. I just said Weavile would be an option against "sweepers" locked into a move. (someone who can predic encore and just don't do damage to you? So you tickle and switch to weavile?)
 
This is just reconfirmation that the new tier list is wack. But more specifically on Wob...

You can't ban movesets on a poke because its just to confusing, not everyone will adhere to it yada yada yada. So unfortunately that wont solve this problem. In order for me to get a good grasp on how detrimental this thing can be, I would have to test it my self, and I urge all of you to go test this poke out in battle.

I'm assuming the move set is Encore, Tickle, Counter, Mirror Coat? The more I think about facing that moveset, with out the ability to switch my pokemon, the more I want to say bann it to ubers without even testing it my self. I mean this thing can safely switch in on any wall, and just destroy it. It would have some problems with more offensive minded teams, but that is not reason enough for me to think Wob is to powerful for OU.

It's good that we are trying to use it in OU, every poke deserves a shot. But unless there is a new tier added or some shit, its time to go back to the Uber environment Wob.

Now.......lets make Dragonite and Latios/Lati@s OU!
 
This is just reconfirmation that the new tier list is wack. But more specifically on Wob...

You can't ban movesets on a poke because its just to confusing, not everyone will adhere to it yada yada yada. In order for me to get a good grasp on how detramental this thing can be, I would have to test it my self, and I urge all of you to go test this poke out in battle.

I'm assuming the moveset is Encore, Tickle, Counter, Mirror Coat? The more I think about facing that moveset, with out the ability to switch my pokemon, the more I want to say bann it to ubers without even testing it my self.

It's good that we are trying to use it in OU, every poke deserves a shot. But unless there is a new tier added or some shit, its time to go back to the Uber environment Wob.
Wobbuffet shouldn't be a problem. BP and u-turn are still great moves and shed shells could be used as well.
 
How does Wobbuffet learn Tickle exactly? It's mentioned in the SmogonDex analysis but it's not listed when I check on veekun or serebii's pokedex. Needless to say this is a great strategy and I want to make use of this for my Battle Tower team in some way.
Marriland and bulbapedia don't mention it either. Does he even actually learn it?
 
A strategy that is just as effective is IPL's JollyWobb. If your lead Pokemon is at Skarmory's min speed or lower, you've essentially just lost a Pokemon through being PP stalled out of the first move you use. It can also switch in on any of the moves of Pokemon like Swampert, Hippowdon and Forretress and guarantee a kill.

Both strategies have advantages over the other. For instance Alice's strategy will probably never run out of encore PP as it only has to be used probably only 2-3 times per time you bring Wobb in, while IPL's Wobb can go through 4-6 encores against one Pokemon. However IPL's strategy doesn't require the loss of recovery through sandstorm. I mean you could always used Weavile with Alice's strategy if you prefer, but it's probably not recommended.

Overall both strategies are completely broken (and annoying in the case of IPL's :/)
 
Marriland and bulbapedia don't mention it either. Does he even actually learn it?

According to Netbattle, Wobbufet/Wynaut learn Tickle via Box/NYPC.

Sorry Carl, but I don't think you'll be able to get one for BT. :(
 
Wobbuffet is officially "Limbo" for the new edition of the tier list, until it receives more playtesting and discussion.
 
Wobbuffet shouldn't be a problem. BP and u-turn are still great moves and shed shells could be used as well.

Oh? let's just stickk Shed shell, U-turn or BP on everything! Then we'll have no wobb weak, but 6 less item slots/moveslots!

[/sarcasm]
 
Wobbuffet shouldn't be a problem. BP and u-turn are still great moves and shed shells could be used as well.

Two of those options become null and void due to Encore, and do you really think all wall should carry those two moves to deal with Wob? Like really? That just not......thats just.....just...stupid.

I mean what walls have U-turn or Batton Pass anyway?
 
Also the point is to set up on skarm or some other defensive pokemon. So the chances of them having U-turn or BP is slim to none. Plus why the hell do we need to start using shed shell Bliss just to counter this wobb set.

Just get Blissey on the turn she is softboiling up
 
Here's the problem. All the moderately intelligent players know that Wobbs is Uber material and doesn't belong in the OU metagame. So instead of using him, none of us put him on our teams. Since he's not on all the teams, a particular idiot who runs a particular program we use to battle refuses to ban him back to Ubers. The "data" supports this singular person's decision to unban him to satisfy his own bloated ego.

So we either ALL do this nonsense to each other for a couple of months and have no fun playing Pokemon or we accept the fact that until a *ahem* competitor arises for this particular program, we're all doomed to suffer through retarded matches against the broken blue blob.
 
Wobbuffet is uber like Celebi, Jirachi, and Deoxys-Superduper. also shaymin but notrly
 
That strategy is nothing compared to Doorman's. The quickest version of Wobba can reach 181 speed, which outruns no speed Skarmory. It also outruns Bronzong, Forretress, Swampert, Hippowdon and other slow users of Spikes / Stealth Rock. Daym, you can encore a Blissey's Softboiled, repeating the same process of PP stall / death by struggle. You also get to protect yourself from status by having a faster Safeguard.

GG.
 
You can't counter Wobbuffet unless every single Pokemon on your team is safe against it. Using Wob+Dugtrio (Magnezone can be used too) or this strategy you can pick off pretty much any wall/medium strength attacker. One fainted wall leaves a huge hole in your team. This is what sets Wobbuffet away from other big threats in DP. I tested Wobbuffet a lot in Feburary (reaching top 10 with a team based around it) and in my opinion it should be uber. There are so many more threats in DP that a single hole in a team can cause defeat.

Take a look at Pokemon that kill a wide range of the metagame yet can't because the opponent's team always has a plan against them.
DDMence, SDLucario, Garchomp, Heracross, etc.
Think of your team and what you do to stop these. Then think of what would happen if your opponent paired one of these up with Wobbuffet+Dugtrio/This strategy. Wobbuffet means that you have to counter these without resorting to walls. How exactly are you going to that? BP Gliscor and U-turn Celebi are options but you can't use Forry, Zong, Pert, Blissey, etc.

In the "How do you handle Chomp/Mamo" topic almost everyone posted something that wouldn't work if the opponent used this strategy.

Revenge killing doesn't work because once they realize your only answer to Hera was a Gliscor then they aren't going to let it die that easily.

Yes you could use an all offensive team but you shouldn't be limited to that. Also, offensive teams tend to have a lot of Choice items meaning Wobba can come in on a resist and kill something.

Wobbuffet doesn't exactly destroy teams but it definitely hurts having your physical or special wall dead really early in the game.

This strategy is definitely cheap in my opinion, as well as Wob+Trio. There shouldn't be anything in OU that kill walls that effectively and easily.

Here's the problem. All the moderately intelligent players know that Wobbs is Uber material and doesn't belong in the OU metagame. So instead of using him, none of us put him on our teams.
I agree with this. It always seemed like a lot of the top players weren't using Wobba and thus not proving he was uber. More people need to show what Wobba can really do.
 
Here's the problem. All the moderately intelligent players know that Wobbs is Uber material and doesn't belong in the OU metagame. So instead of using him, none of us put him on our teams. Since he's not on all the teams, a particular idiot who runs a particular program we use to battle refuses to ban him back to Ubers. The "data" supports this singular person's decision to unban him to satisfy his own bloated ego.

So we either ALL do this nonsense to each other for a couple of months and have no fun playing Pokemon or we accept the fact that until a *ahem* competitor arises for this particular program, we're all doomed to suffer through retarded matches against the broken blue blob.
If you were really as intelligent as you say, you'd realize that the best way to get him banned would be to use him.

Also it was not a singular person's decision it was agreed by most of the premiere smogon members that he should be tested. Colin unbanned him because smogon asked him too.
 
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