Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

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pqs

u rly thought
Umbreon is a god.
This is not my set, but still works. The EVs are mine.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 128 Def / 112 SpD
Careful Nature
- Yawn
- Moonlight
- Curse
- Payback


Turn 1- Yawn
Turn 2- Curse or Moonlight
Turn 3- Set up, heal, or payback

Gets wrecked by Koko, but just run Donphan and you're fine.

Kills-

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-661854295 (Charizard)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-661854941 (Jirachi)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-661854941 (Metagross-Mega)

and random stuff like-
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-661854941 (Togedemaru)
the jirachi, metagross-m, and togedemaru are all jirachi replays, and why is that air balloon jirachi
 
Oh crap copy paste error, so sorry. I will get more when I have time

And this was middle of ladder, about 1400 ELO
 

Rosa

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As some of you may know, I've lately been teambuilding vigorously in an attempt to make every legendary pokemon useful, as well as either optimize or add onto legendary pokemon that are already used in 1v1, and today's post will be outlying a very interesting result I found while doing Gen 5's legendaries.

Kyurem-Black is back at it again:



Kyurem-Black @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 148 Spe
Lax Nature
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Laser Focus

With Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon introducing some new tutor moves, Kyurem-Black has picked up a new toy: Laser Focus. For those who don't know what Laser Focus is, it is a status move that makes it so that the next attack the user uses will always land in a critical hit. As a result, this allows Kyurem-Black to undermine threats like Gyarados without having to utilize some niche Choice Band set, though you still need these EVs to safely outspeed and withstand anything Gyarados can throw at you.

0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Gyarados-Mega on a critical hit: 414-487 (105 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 372-438 (96.8 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 444-523 (112.6 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 646-762 (91.8 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO


At first, I was initially thinking that this would just end up falling under the niche sets category with Groundium and friends, but esteemed memelord/teamlord Wrath of Alakazam suggested to me that it could counter Slowbro and Chansey, and lo and behold, it does. As a result, I now strongly believe that Dragonium has a strong reason to become a mainstream item on Kyurem-Black, as well as Laser Focus becoming a mainstream move, regardless of which item you pair it with.
 
As some of you may know, I've lately been teambuilding vigorously in an attempt to make every legendary pokemon useful, as well as either optimize or add onto legendary pokemon that are already used in 1v1, and today's post will be outlying a very interesting result I found while doing Gen 5's legendaries.

Kyurem-Black is back at it again:



Kyurem-Black @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 148 Spe
Lax Nature
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Laser Focus

With Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon introducing some new tutor moves, Kyurem-Black has picked up a new toy: Laser Focus. For those who don't know what Laser Focus is, it is a status move that makes it so that the next attack the user uses will always land in a critical hit. As a result, this allows Kyurem-Black to undermine threats like Gyarados without having to utilize some niche Choice Band set, though you still need these EVs to safely outspeed and withstand anything Gyarados can throw at you.

0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Gyarados-Mega on a critical hit: 414-487 (105 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 372-438 (96.8 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 444-523 (112.6 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 646-762 (91.8 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO


At first, I was initially thinking that this would just end up falling under the niche sets category with Groundium and friends, but esteemed memelord/teamlord Wrath of Alakazam suggested to me that it could counter Slowbro and Chansey, and lo and behold, it does. As a result, I now strongly believe that Dragonium has a strong reason to become a mainstream item on Kyurem-Black, as well as Laser Focus becoming a mainstream move, regardless of which item you pair it with.
I would just like to say that about 50% of slowbro set EV's are as follows:
252 HP / 252+ SPD

upload_2017-11-22_21-10-14.png



This lives a dragonium z crit from both ends, so I wouldn't say that its a slowbro counter just yet.

4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 306-361 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(yes it lives another draco crit, the only real hope of winning is that people haven't caught on yet and they'd iron defense or something)

4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sorry to ruin the fun, but I do think its an outstanding set and would be very fun and hilarious to use.

Great work Glyx and Wrath of Alakazam for coming up with another reason to ban kyub I mean another fun set!
 
Hi, this is your favorite Wrath Of Alakazam aka Attidude, back with another post. Ummmm, I don't know what to post about, so I'm doing this..............


For those who are annoyed about Mega Gyarados and Tapu Koko, here goes,

MEET DHELMISE:


Dhelmise @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 184 HP / 144 Atk / 180 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Phantom Force
- Power Whip
- Anchor Shot


It has a rather defensively unique typing in Grass/ Ghost( who can forget the cuddly monster called Trevanent from gen5? ), which places it ideally to kill Water-types like GyaradosM, Primarina and Tapu Fini, Electric-type Pokemon like Tapu Koko, and many other Grass-types like Mega Venusaur and Jumpluff. It also has a good HP/ Defence stat, which helps it tank an Ice Punch from Metagross Mega.

Moving on to some calculations for the set,
CALCULATIONS:

1)+1 144+ Atk Dhelmise Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Gyarados-Mega: 510-602 (129.4 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And if it does not have Crunch, +1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Dhelmise: 245-289 (74.9 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

2) 144+ Atk Dhelmise Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 334-394 (118.8 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO and
252 Atk Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Dhelmise in Electric Terrain: 196-231 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 184 HP / 180 SpD Dhelmise in Electric Terrain: 165-195 (50.4 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

3)252+ SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 184 HP / 180 SpD Dhelmise: 141-166 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
+2 144+ Atk Dhelmise Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Venusaur-Mega: 399-471 (109.6 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4)252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Ice Punch vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Dhelmise: 254-300 (77.6 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and 144+ Atk Dhelmise Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross-Mega: 410-486 (112.6 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

5) 144+ Atk Dhelmise Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 350-414 (96.1 - 113.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
and 252+ SpA Primarina Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 184 HP / 180 SpD Dhelmise: 279-328 (85.3 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

6)252 SpA Choice Specs Genesect Flamethrower vs. 184 HP / 180 SpD Dhelmise: 252-298 (77 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and 144+ Atk Dhelmise Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 306-360 (108.1 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It has a chance only against no-bulk Genesect, not against bulky sets....

7)144+ Atk Dhelmise Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 240-284 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

8)252+ SpA Tapu Fini Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 184 HP / 180 SpD Dhelmise: 229-270 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and 144+ Atk Dhelmise Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 96 Def Tapu Fini: 326-386 (95 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO


It is weak to KyuB and Charizards, which brings me the next mon for this post..

MEET GIGALITH



Mama, no one likes me ;_; (Gigalith) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Atk / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Superpower

The task is simple, come in, ZNuke Pokemon weak to Rock, and cover Dhelmise's weakness.

Relevant calcs:
  • 252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Tectonic Rage (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Gigalith in Sand: 272-322 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and
  • 128+ Atk Gigalith Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 480-566 (105.7 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

  • 252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Gigalith: 316-372 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO,and
  • 128+ Atk Gigalith Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 1024-1212 (284.4 - 336.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

  • +1 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gigalith: 306-360 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO,and
  • 128+ Atk Gigalith Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 408-480 (113.3 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO



I know there are some gaping holes in this core, but i was not building a team here, so I'll leave it here. HF with Dhelmise and Gigalith
 

Rosa

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Moderator
I know I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record with all these sets I'm dropping, but this one is at least also relevant with new releases and unbans and stuff-

The God Himself



Zygarde @ Groundium Z
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 240 HP / 56 Atk / 128 Def / 84 SpD
Impish Nature
- Coil
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Rest

On my quest to make every legendary pokemon viable in 1v1, I've just recently finished doing gen 5, and upon my arrival to gen 6's legends, I found out that I had already made sets for all of them except Zygarde, so I got to building. Now, I was able to make quite a few decent sets for each of Zygarde's forms, however, most of them only really performed niche roles of beating X mon with X moveset, until I got to this big guy.

It took a lot of careful building to come to this conclusion, but I'd say it paid off, as this guy now completely counters Aegislash, Porygon-Z without Ice Beam, and max HP Magearna. It also has a great chance at beating other threats as well, though most of them are considerably more variable in matchup due to moveset possibilities and/or type changes caused by Mega Evolution.

Coil is a key component to the set, providing a very helpful boost to both Zygarde's Defense and Attack. Thousand Arrows is your main form of dealing damage while Extremespeed is used to pick up KOs on anything that just barely survives Z-Arrows. The last move is definitely still up for debate since it doesn't really have anything useful for beating the mons I built it for, but Rest seems to be the most overall applicable when looking at the entirety of threats contained in the VR.

Gyarados
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 240 HP / 128+ Def Zygarde: 226-268 (54.1 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Recovers ~51.8% after Power Construct
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. +1 240 HP / 128+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 152-180 (24 - 28.4%) -- 96.4% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. +2 240 HP / 128+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 114-136 (18 - 21.4%) -- possible 5HKO
Charizard-X
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 240 HP / 128+ Def Zygarde: 354-416 (84.8 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Recovers ~51.8% after Power Construct
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. +1 240 HP / 128+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 236-282 (37.2 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Magearna
56 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 366-432 (100.5 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mawile
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Ice Punch vs. +1 240 HP / 128+ Def Zygarde: 288-340 (69 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
56 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 338-402 (111.1 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Metagross
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Ice Punch vs. 240 HP / 128+ Def Zygarde: 356-420 (85.3 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 56 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross-Mega: 432-510 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Aegislash
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 240 HP / 84 SpD Zygarde: 306-360 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Recovers ~51.8% after Power Construct
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. +1 240 HP / 128+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 30-36 (4.7 - 5.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+1 56 Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def protected Aegislash-Shield: 108-127 (33.3 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 56 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 218-258 (67.2 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Porygon-Z
252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 240 HP / 84 SpD Zygarde: 352-416 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


My ultimate conclusion for this behemoth is to put it in A- at LEAST, seeing as to how much of the meta this single set alone takes on. Many other sets can likely be made to take on many other threats, but I believe that this build provides Zygarde the widest range of metagame coverage it can have in a single set.
 
Warning: this one is just stupid but fun to mess around with.


Ambipom @ Normalium-Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Last Resort

So if you come across a level 1 Pokémon that stalls, for instance Magnemite, you can Fake Out in their faces.
Basically how this works is:
Turn 1: Fake Out (Watch out for Inner Focus or Steadfast i guess).
Turn 2: Breakneck Blitz from a Last Resort (Don't use Giga Impact, it has the same base power from the Z-move and if the opponent survives, Last Resort is a better option).

The counters aren't specific, you can put it on your team to cover stalling Pokémon or just to cover the ones that your others can't cover.
You probably want something to check Ghost types if you wanna use this. Good luck!
 

pqs

u rly thought
Warning: this one is just stupid but fun to mess around with.


Ambipom @ Normalium-Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Last Resort

So if you come across a level 1 Pokémon that stalls, for instance Magnemite, you can Fake Out in their faces.
Basically how this works is:
Turn 1: Fake Out (Watch out for Inner Focus or Steadfast i guess).
Turn 2: Breakneck Blitz from a Last Resort (Don't use Giga Impact, it has the same base power from the Z-move and if the opponent survives, Last Resort is a better option).

The counters aren't specific, you can put it on your team to cover stalling Pokémon or just to cover the ones that your others can't cover.
You probably want something to check Ghost types if you wanna use this. Good luck!
Most FEAR Pokemon in 1v1 are running protect now, so that leaves Ambipom open to even FEAR.

This Pokemon beats almost 10% of the meta, loses to almost all of the ranked Pokemon in 1v1 - But I guess if you want a counter to smeargle... oh noo quick claaw
 
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Sample Teams

By partys over
Pheromosa / Gyarados-Mega / Magnezone
fantasy and you (Pheromosa) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Focus Blast
- Hyper Beam

sur la plage (Gyarados-Mega) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 96 Def / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Outrage

rising sun (Magnezone) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Mirror Coat
- Electroweb
- Metal Sound


By Iron Crusher
Heatran / Mimikyu / Tapu Lele
dreamer (Heatran) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 180 Def / 192 SpA / 136 Spe
Rash Nature
- Overheat
- Rock Tomb
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power

ponder (Mimikyu) @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Curse
- Substitute
- Protect

tapu leveling (Tapu Lele) @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind


By Wrath of Alakazam
Tapu Koko / Slowbro-Mega / Metagross-Mega
Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Charge
- Wild Charge
- Substitute

Take it slow,bro! (Slowbro-Mega) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Oblivious
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Iron Defense
- Rest

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 132 HP / 76 Atk / 100 Def / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm

By Quantum Tesseract
Gyarados-Mega / Charizard-Mega-Y / Mimikyu
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Waterfall

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 172 Def / 232 SpA / 104 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Blast Burn
- Air Slash
- Rock Tomb

Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Curse
- Play Rough
- Protect
- Substitute

By Kentari
Magearna / Landorus-Therian / Jumpluff
Magearna @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 232 HP / 224 SpA / 24 SpD / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt

Landorus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Substitute

Jumpluff @ Wide Lens
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 48 HP / 208 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect

By Dream Eater Gengar
Snorlax / Togekiss / Gyarados-Mega
Sleep with me (Snorlax) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Yawn
- Protect
- Double-Edge
- Belly Drum

TogeKISS you bye (Togekiss) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower
- Trick

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 76 SpD / 104 Spe
Impish Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

By Uselesscrab
Keldeo / Magnezone / Charizard-Mega-X
Keldeo @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 116 SpA / 20 SpD / 40 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Icy Wind

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 112 HP / 24 Atk / 120 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp

By Kaneki 7024
Zygarde-Complete / Porygon-Z / Tapu Koko
Yami (Zygarde-Complete) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 80 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Coil
- Substitute
- Extreme Speed

Julius (Porygon-Z) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
- Hyper Beam
- Conversion

Aster (Tapu Koko) @ Fairium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute
Nice work on changing the sample teams, could you just do the one thing of changing Fairium Mimikyu to Mimikium Mimikyu? Let's Snuggle Forever is just a way more powerful ZMove than Twinkle Tackle.
 
Nice work on changing the sample teams, could you just do the one thing of changing Fairium Mimikyu to Mimikium Mimikyu? Let's Snuggle Forever is just a way more powerful ZMove than Twinkle Tackle.
Yeah,and why does Keldeo have HP rock while both of the other Pokemon counter Charizard Y?
 
Yeah,and why does Keldeo have HP rock while both of the other Pokemon counter Charizard Y?
It’s just my personal preference for not having things that only counter one of the Charizards. You make a good point, though. The same EV spread with Waterium Z Hydro Pump and Secret Sword is a valid option that I have also used with the same partners
 

Kaneki 7024

Banned deucer.
DEG has encouraged me to post something on Smogon, so I thought I would just post something simple to start off with, one of my favourite sets to use in 1v1.


Yami (Zygarde-Complete) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 80 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Coil
- Substitute
- Extreme Speed


This is my Zygarde-Complete form set which I have used to achieve a decent amount of success on the 1v1 PS! ladder. The EVs are designed to take a +1 max attack gyarados outrage, so even if it outboosts you by 1 you can take a hit, and an ice punch from mega metagross. The speed hits 244 which is to speed creep base 100s which are bulky and run a bit of speed. Rest of the EVs are dumped into attack to hit as hard as possible after a few coils and weakness policy boost, versus threats like mega gyarados, mega metagross, non adamant mega charizard-X. The moves themself are important too, I run Thousand Arrows and Coil two very standard options, but I prefer substitute over rest as it allows me to sub on stuff like Magearna and lower its special attack from fleur cannons so I can take a hit and be able to 2HKO with thousand arrows safely without being OHKOed. Finally I run Extreme Speed which is another uncommon option apparently, I use it because it allows me to finish off weakened pokemon at low HP such as mega metagross, mega gyarados, mega charizard-Y before they can deal the last piece of damage needed. It allows me to feel safer I guess. Anyway thats my Zygarde-C set!
 
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Tired of facing the same core over and over? (Zygarde-10%,Tapu Koko,Snorlax)
I'm here to save you.
Rhyperior @ Icium Z
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Rock Wrecker
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

This a remake of an old set I met on the ladder which actually ran Z-Blizzard Rhyperior.I realised that if you turn this to physical it can beat all 3 meta Pokemon.
Tapu Koko obviously loses,against Snorlax just use Substiute turn 1,Substitute again turn 2 if they break it with Z-Move and then (since they can no longer break it),Earthquake twice followed by Rock Wrecker to grab the KO.
Zygarde is a little trickier.Against Substitute you have to predict,but it is in your favor anyway (http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-668302726).Non-Substitute sets don't stand a Chance,since
252+ Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 267-315 (71.7 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and
+1 0+ Atk Zygarde Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 315-370 (84.6 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(252+ Atk Rhyperior Subzero Slammer (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 404-476 (96.1 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO)
 

Nalei

out!
is a Pre-Contributor
CCAT #1 - Occa Berry Whimsicott

Whimsicott @ Occa Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Moonblast

Mimikyu @ Mimikium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Curse
- Substitute
- Protect

Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mind Blown
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Hyper Beam

We decided to build around Occa Berry Whimsicott, which is a good Charizard lure. It was decided to pair it with Choice Band Garchomp, but we quickly realized that they simply weren't a good core. After some speculation, we came up with Mimikium Cursekyu, who beats most of Whimsicott's counters. While there was some controversy about running Adamant or Jolly, Adamant was eventually deemed the superior nature considering that it OHKOs Tapu Koko and stands a better chance vs extra-bulky Kyurem-B. After constructing a list of Pokemon that the two lose to (Mega Metagross, Mega Venusaur, Mega Pinsir, Scarf Genesect, Ferrothorn, Kartana), Scarf Blacephalon came to mind almost instantly. In the last slot, there was some discussion about running HP Ice or Hyper Beam, and Hyper Beam was agreed upon by the majority. Keep in mind that both Hyper Beam and HP Ice are filler moves; neither are necessary to cover threats that the team would otherwise lose to, so feel free to swap them as you wish.

Thanks to all of our participants, but in particular, shoutouts to DEG , partys over , motogp , pqs and I!
Logs: https://pastebin.com/MSvpyuLh
 
Okay, let's do this.....

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET BANNED IN USUM 1v1 :
1) Sleep
2) Power Construct + Rest


And things to be unbanned:

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET UNBANNED IN USUM 1v1:

1) Species Clause
2) Shaymin-Sky

I'll go through the points one by one, adding why i want them banned/unbanned.

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET BANNED IN USUM 1v1 :

1) Sleep-Inducing:




Sleep-inducing has always been an essentially much used, much talked-about topic, and it is also been considered for a possible ban. Here's why I support a ban on sleep-inducing moves.

The sleep inducing strat has a problem both with the strategy and with the users of the strategy. While the strategy in itself is in no way flawed, it reduces the 1v1 metagame from being competitive to merely a metagame relying on luck to win. Also, it forces a choke in the team-building process wherein dedicated counters, like the moves Substitute or Taunt, or abilities like Insomnia and Magic Bounce which keeps the Pokemon from either falling asleep or Bouncing back the sleep-inducing move. Even then, Jumpluff has access to the ability Infiltrator, and Snorlax can use Z-Yawn regardless of whether it is taunted or not. Here's where the Pokemon using sleep-inducing strats come into play, where the sleep-inducing Pokemon themselves are of two categories, one being Pokemon being bulky enough to tank a hit and in turn induce sleep on foes, like Snorlax, Mega Swampert and Mega Venusaur, and the other being Pokemon which can outspeed the needed targets, induce sleep and wear them down or render them immobile to attack like Jumpluff and Smeargle. Also, while anti-sleep ban people say that there are enough countermeasures to counter sleep, I'd like to point out (again) that every other banned strategy in 1v1 had countermeasures and yet were banned because they were fundamentally crippling and bringing down the game for competitive levels.

Keeping all this in mind, I'd like to call a BAN ON SLEEP-INDUCING MOVES.

2) Power Construct + Rest:



Boi, this is a bit more interesting than the first one Ever since Zygarde entered the 1v1 metagame along with USUM Pokemon, it has indubitably( MaceMaster :D) left its impact, having the ability to take on Pokemon very much used in the game like Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard X and Y, Tapu Koko, Mega Venusaur, Landorus-T amongst many others. It has the innate ability to tank physical attackers to a great level, set up with Dragon Dance/ Coil, and KO them back with Substitute, Glare, and Rest to aid the behemoth in setting up. Once, it struck to me to see what amount of the meta this monster exactly takes on with its usual set(Rest/Sub/Coil/ThousandArrows), and the results were frightening:


According to October 1630 usage stats,
  • of the top 010 most used Pokemon, it defeats 07.
  • of the top 020 most used Pokemon, it defeats 12.
  • of the top 050 most used Pokemon, it defeats 30.
  • of the top 100 most used Pokemon, it defeats 62.
  • of the top 150 most used Pokemon, it defeats 89.

If you're really interested, I've made a list of Pokemon from the top 150 most used Pokemon which dies to PConstruct+Rest combination
  1. Mega Gyarados(Without Taunt, which only 7.895% use)
  2. Mega Charizard X
  3. Mega Metagross
  4. Tapu Koko
  5. Mega Charizard Y
  6. Mega Venusaur
  7. Landorus-Therian
  8. Donphan
  9. Mega Blaziken
  10. Mega Lopunny
  11. Heatran
  12. Aegislash
  13. Magearna
  14. Magnezone
  15. Mega Sableye(non Taunt variants)
  16. Victini
  17. Golem
  18. Mega Tyranitar
  19. Snorlax
  20. Mega Swampert
  21. Celesteela
  22. Mega Diancie
  23. Ferrothorn
  24. Mega Heracross
  25. Chansey
  26. Jirachi
  27. Crustle
  28. Tapu Bulu
  29. Mega Pinsir
  30. Kartana
  31. Mega Gengar
  32. Porygon2
  33. Mega Aggron
  34. Alolan Marowak
  35. Mega Scizor
  36. Haxorus
  37. Excadrill
  38. Volcanion
  39. Salazzle
  40. Jumpluff
  41. Mega Lucario
  42. Blissey
  43. Buzzwole
  44. Rotom-Wash
  45. Mega Gallade
  46. Nihilego
  47. Terrakion
  48. Aron
  49. Hawlucha
  50. Skarmory
  51. Aggron
  52. Umbreon
  53. Conkeldurr
  54. Mega Camerupt
  55. Archeops
  56. Durant
  57. Carracosta
  58. Chandelure
  59. Blaziken
  60. Gengar
  61. Bisharp
  62. Hitmonlee
  63. Entei
  64. Magnemite
  65. Mega Ampharos
  66. Arcanine
  67. Xurkitree
  68. Krookodile
  69. Darmanitan
  70. Rotom-Heat
  71. Klefki
  72. Talonflame
  73. Swampert
  74. Hippowdon
  75. Alolan Raichu
  76. Barbaracle
  77. Toxapex
  78. Rampardos
  79. Gliscor
  80. Machamp
  81. Magneton
  82. Tyranitar
  83. Azumarill
  84. Ambipom
  85. Shuckle
  86. Diggersby
  87. Granbull
  88. Zapdos
  89. Wobbuffet

This is the level of potency of the PConstruct+ Rest combo we are seeing about. Of course, there are some sets from the listed Pokemon which can counter Zygarde, but they are very niche and are not in much use as well.

Considering all the facts I presented,and the fact that no other set(s) manage to beat this proportion of the meta, I call for a BAN ON POWER CONSTRUCT + REST COMBO.



Now that I've given my opinion on all I wanted to be banned, I'll give my opinions on something I wanted to get unbanned..
POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET
UNBANNED IN USUM 1v1

1) SPECIES CLAUSE:

??<-
->??


???
???

The species clause was introduced to make sure that there are no overusage of OP mons, and Pokemon with enough coverage to take out any opponent the opponent may have. But like, you could have two Charizard, one being X and other being Y, one taking care of some opponents and others taking care or some others. Here, species clause also brings with it the possibility of having a common counter for the all these, like Archeops. So, keeping in mind the possibility of having a common counter if bringing the same Pokemon, i call for a UNBAN ON SPECIES CLAUSE.

2) Shaymin-Sky:



Since its release in Generation 4, Shaymin-Sky has always been a decent Pokemon, with its signature move Seed Flare with a 120 Base Power along with a 80 percent chance of reducing the Special Defence by 2 stages and its Air Slash having a 60% chance of flinching, because of its Serene Grace ability. But apart from these weapons, which gives Shaymin-Sky tremendous stall-breaking capabilities, it gets nothing, and its typing in Grass/Flying is also very bad in 1v1 with common offensive Pokemon in 1v1 being Tapu Koko, Kyurem-B, Mega Charizard, Tapu Lele, Mega Metagross and Sturdy Pokemon, which can easily tank some hits from Shaymin-Sky and retaliate with their own. It is also a bit frail for its typing, thus not being able to tank its weakness.

Calculations:

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 326-386 (89.5 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 272-320 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 308-364 (85.7 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 235-277 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 258-304 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 282-334 (78.9 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These calcs show proof that the coverage moves it gets are not enough to KO relevant threats.

To conclude, it is a Pokemon a little better than a glass cannon, which deserves to be unbanned, and so I support for a UNBAN ON SHAYMIN-SKY.
 
Last edited:
My stands:
Sleep: Do not ban or suspect
Zygarde father: Suspect
Shaymin-s: Keep Banned
Species Clause: UNBAN for sure
Darkrai: Suspect

other stuff : i do know it cant happen but possibly retesting deo-d and im not sure about gyara and kyurem(more kyurem) if they are too much for this metagame but recently i am more pushing for them to stay.

ik no one cares especially bc i am too lazy to wright my reasonings.I am posting just to document my opinion at this time as it can change.Also ill add more stuff later on to the list.
 
Last edited:

pqs

u rly thought
Okay, let's do this.....

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET BANNED IN USUM 1v1 :
1) Sleep
2) Power Construct + Rest


And things to be unbanned:

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET UNBANNED IN USUM 1v1:

1) Species Clause
2) Shaymin-Sky

I'll go through the points one by one, adding why i want them banned/unbanned.

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET BANNED IN USUM 1v1 :

1) Sleep-Inducing:




Sleep-inducing has always been an essentially much used, much talked-about topic, and it is also been considered for a possible ban. Here's why I support a ban on sleep-inducing moves.

The sleep inducing strat has a problem both with the strategy and with the users of the strategy. While the strategy in itself is in no way flawed, it reduces the 1v1 metagame from being competitive to merely a metagame relying on luck to win. Also, it forces a choke in the team-building process wherein dedicated counters, like the moves Substitute or Taunt, or abilities like Insomnia and Magic Bounce which keeps the Pokemon from either falling asleep or Bouncing back the sleep-inducing move. Even then, Jumpluff has access to the ability Infiltrator, and Snorlax can use Z-Yawn regardless of whether it is taunted or not. Here's where the Pokemon using sleep-inducing strats come into play, where the sleep-inducing Pokemon themselves are of two categories, one being Pokemon being bulky enough to tank a hit and in turn induce sleep on foes, like Snorlax, Mega Swampert and Mega Venusaur, and the other being Pokemon which can outspeed the needed targets, induce sleep and wear them down or render them immobile to attack like Jumpluff and Smeargle. Also, while anti-sleep ban people say that there are enough countermeasures to counter sleep, I'd like to point out (again) that every other banned strategy in 1v1 had countermeasures and yet were banned because they were fundamentally crippling and bringing down the game for competitive levels.

Keeping all this in mind, I'd like to call a BAN ON SLEEP-INDUCING MOVES.

2) Power Construct + Rest:



Boi, this is a bit more interesting than the first one Ever since Zygarde entered the 1v1 metagame along with USUM Pokemon, it has indubitably( MaceMaster :D) left its impact, having the ability to take on Pokemon very much used in the game like Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard X and Y, Tapu Koko, Mega Venusaur, Landorus-T amongst many others. It has the innate ability to tank physical attackers to a great level, set up with Dragon Dance/ Coil, and KO them back with Substitute, Glare, and Rest to aid the behemoth in setting up. Once, it struck to me to see what amount of the meta this monster exactly takes on with its usual set(Rest/Sub/Coil/ThousandArrows), and the results were frightening:


According to October 1630 usage stats,
  • of the top 010 most used Pokemon, it defeats 07.
  • of the top 020 most used Pokemon, it defeats 12.
  • of the top 050 most used Pokemon, it defeats 30.
  • of the top 100 most used Pokemon, it defeats 62.
  • of the top 150 most used Pokemon, it defeats 89.

If you're really interested, I've made a list of Pokemon from the top 150 most used Pokemon which dies to PConstruct+Rest combination
  1. Mega Gyarados(Without Taunt, which only 7.895% use)
  2. Mega Charizard X
  3. Mega Metagross
  4. Tapu Koko
  5. Mega Charizard Y
  6. Mega Venusaur
  7. Landorus-Therian
  8. Donphan
  9. Mega Blaziken
  10. Mega Lopunny
  11. Heatran
  12. Aegislash
  13. Magearna
  14. Magnezone
  15. Mega Sableye(non Taunt variants)
  16. Victini
  17. Golem
  18. Mega Tyranitar
  19. Snorlax
  20. Mega Swampert
  21. Celesteela
  22. Mega Diancie
  23. Ferrothorn
  24. Mega Heracross
  25. Chansey
  26. Jirachi
  27. Crustle
  28. Tapu Bulu
  29. Mega Pinsir
  30. Kartana
  31. Mega Gengar
  32. Porygon2
  33. Mega Aggron
  34. Alolan Marowak
  35. Mega Scizor
  36. Haxorus
  37. Excadrill
  38. Volcanion
  39. Salazzle
  40. Jumpluff
  41. Mega Lucario
  42. Blissey
  43. Buzzwole
  44. Rotom-Wash
  45. Mega Gallade
  46. Nihilego
  47. Terrakion
  48. Aron
  49. Hawlucha
  50. Skarmory
  51. Aggron
  52. Umbreon
  53. Conkeldurr
  54. Mega Camerupt
  55. Archeops
  56. Durant
  57. Carracosta
  58. Chandelure
  59. Blaziken
  60. Gengar
  61. Bisharp
  62. Hitmonlee
  63. Entei
  64. Magnemite
  65. Mega Ampharos
  66. Arcanine
  67. Xurkitree
  68. Krookodile
  69. Darmanitan
  70. Rotom-Heat
  71. Klefki
  72. Talonflame
  73. Swampert
  74. Hippowdon
  75. Alolan Raichu
  76. Barbaracle
  77. Toxapex
  78. Rampardos
  79. Gliscor
  80. Machamp
  81. Magneton
  82. Tyranitar
  83. Azumarill
  84. Ambipom
  85. Shuckle
  86. Diggersby
  87. Granbull
  88. Zapdos
  89. Wobbuffet

This is the level of potency of the PConstruct+ Rest combo we are seeing about. Of course, there are some sets from the listed Pokemon which can counter Zygarde, but they are very niche and are not in much use as well.

Considering all the facts I presented,and the fact that no other set(s) manage to beat this proportion of the meta, I call for a BAN ON POWER CONSTRUCT + REST COMBO.



Now that I've given my opinion on all I wanted to be banned, I'll give my opinions on something I wanted to get unbanned..
POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET
UNBANNED IN USUM 1v1

1) SPECIES CLAUSE:

??<-
->??


???
???

The species clause was introduced to make sure that there are no overusage of OP mons, and Pokemon with enough coverage to take out any opponent the opponent may have. But like, you could have two Charizard, one being X and other being Y, one taking care of some opponents and others taking care or some others. Here, species clause also brings with it the possibility of having a common counter for the all these, like Archeops. So, keeping in mind the possibility of having a common counter if bringing the same Pokemon, i call for a UNBAN ON SPECIES CLAUSE.

2) Shaymin-Sky:



Since its release in Generation 4, Shaymin-Sky has always been a decent Pokemon, with its signature move Seed Flare with a 120 Base Power along with a 80 percent chance of reducing the Special Defence by 2 stages and its Air Slash having a 60% chance of flinching, because of its Serene Grace ability. But apart from these weapons, which gives Shaymin-Sky tremendous stall-breaking capabilities, it gets nothing, and its typing in Grass/Flying is also very bad in 1v1 with common offensive Pokemon in 1v1 being Tapu Koko, Kyurem-B, Mega Charizard, Tapu Lele, Mega Metagross and Sturdy Pokemon, which can easily tank some hits from Shaymin-Sky and retaliate with their own. It is also a bit frail for its typing, thus not being able to tank its weakness.

Calculations:

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 326-386 (89.5 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 272-320 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 308-364 (85.7 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 235-277 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 258-304 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 282-334 (78.9 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These calcs show proof that the coverage moves it gets are not enough to KO relevant threats.

To conclude, it is a Pokemon a little better than a glass cannon, which deserves to be unbanned, and so I support for a UNBAN ON SHAYMIN-SKY.
Nice post overall, I just wanna know why the Shaymin-Sky against Primarina isn't specs, seeing that you only put non-specs for Tapu Koko to outspeed it. (sorry for he one liner)
 

Nalei

out!
is a Pre-Contributor
Okay, let's do this.....

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET BANNED IN USUM 1v1 :
1) Sleep
2) Power Construct + Rest


And things to be unbanned:

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET UNBANNED IN USUM 1v1:

1) Species Clause
2) Shaymin-Sky

I'll go through the points one by one, adding why i want them banned/unbanned.

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET BANNED IN USUM 1v1 :

1) Sleep-Inducing:




Sleep-inducing has always been an essentially much used, much talked-about topic, and it is also been considered for a possible ban. Here's why I support a ban on sleep-inducing moves.

The sleep inducing strat has a problem both with the strategy and with the users of the strategy. While the strategy in itself is in no way flawed, it reduces the 1v1 metagame from being competitive to merely a metagame relying on luck to win. Also, it forces a choke in the team-building process wherein dedicated counters, like the moves Substitute or Taunt, or abilities like Insomnia and Magic Bounce which keeps the Pokemon from either falling asleep or Bouncing back the sleep-inducing move. Even then, Jumpluff has access to the ability Infiltrator, and Snorlax can use Z-Yawn regardless of whether it is taunted or not. Here's where the Pokemon using sleep-inducing strats come into play, where the sleep-inducing Pokemon themselves are of two categories, one being Pokemon being bulky enough to tank a hit and in turn induce sleep on foes, like Snorlax, Mega Swampert and Mega Venusaur, and the other being Pokemon which can outspeed the needed targets, induce sleep and wear them down or render them immobile to attack like Jumpluff and Smeargle. Also, while anti-sleep ban people say that there are enough countermeasures to counter sleep, I'd like to point out (again) that every other banned strategy in 1v1 had countermeasures and yet were banned because they were fundamentally crippling and bringing down the game for competitive levels.

Keeping all this in mind, I'd like to call a BAN ON SLEEP-INDUCING MOVES.

2) Power Construct + Rest:



Boi, this is a bit more interesting than the first one Ever since Zygarde entered the 1v1 metagame along with USUM Pokemon, it has indubitably( MaceMaster :D) left its impact, having the ability to take on Pokemon very much used in the game like Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard X and Y, Tapu Koko, Mega Venusaur, Landorus-T amongst many others. It has the innate ability to tank physical attackers to a great level, set up with Dragon Dance/ Coil, and KO them back with Substitute, Glare, and Rest to aid the behemoth in setting up. Once, it struck to me to see what amount of the meta this monster exactly takes on with its usual set(Rest/Sub/Coil/ThousandArrows), and the results were frightening:


According to October 1630 usage stats,
  • of the top 010 most used Pokemon, it defeats 07.
  • of the top 020 most used Pokemon, it defeats 12.
  • of the top 050 most used Pokemon, it defeats 30.
  • of the top 100 most used Pokemon, it defeats 62.
  • of the top 150 most used Pokemon, it defeats 89.

If you're really interested, I've made a list of Pokemon from the top 150 most used Pokemon which dies to PConstruct+Rest combination
  1. Mega Gyarados(Without Taunt, which only 7.895% use)
  2. Mega Charizard X
  3. Mega Metagross
  4. Tapu Koko
  5. Mega Charizard Y
  6. Mega Venusaur
  7. Landorus-Therian
  8. Donphan
  9. Mega Blaziken
  10. Mega Lopunny
  11. Heatran
  12. Aegislash
  13. Magearna
  14. Magnezone
  15. Mega Sableye(non Taunt variants)
  16. Victini
  17. Golem
  18. Mega Tyranitar
  19. Snorlax
  20. Mega Swampert
  21. Celesteela
  22. Mega Diancie
  23. Ferrothorn
  24. Mega Heracross
  25. Chansey
  26. Jirachi
  27. Crustle
  28. Tapu Bulu
  29. Mega Pinsir
  30. Kartana
  31. Mega Gengar
  32. Porygon2
  33. Mega Aggron
  34. Alolan Marowak
  35. Mega Scizor
  36. Haxorus
  37. Excadrill
  38. Volcanion
  39. Salazzle
  40. Jumpluff
  41. Mega Lucario
  42. Blissey
  43. Buzzwole
  44. Rotom-Wash
  45. Mega Gallade
  46. Nihilego
  47. Terrakion
  48. Aron
  49. Hawlucha
  50. Skarmory
  51. Aggron
  52. Umbreon
  53. Conkeldurr
  54. Mega Camerupt
  55. Archeops
  56. Durant
  57. Carracosta
  58. Chandelure
  59. Blaziken
  60. Gengar
  61. Bisharp
  62. Hitmonlee
  63. Entei
  64. Magnemite
  65. Mega Ampharos
  66. Arcanine
  67. Xurkitree
  68. Krookodile
  69. Darmanitan
  70. Rotom-Heat
  71. Klefki
  72. Talonflame
  73. Swampert
  74. Hippowdon
  75. Alolan Raichu
  76. Barbaracle
  77. Toxapex
  78. Rampardos
  79. Gliscor
  80. Machamp
  81. Magneton
  82. Tyranitar
  83. Azumarill
  84. Ambipom
  85. Shuckle
  86. Diggersby
  87. Granbull
  88. Zapdos
  89. Wobbuffet

This is the level of potency of the PConstruct+ Rest combo we are seeing about. Of course, there are some sets from the listed Pokemon which can counter Zygarde, but they are very niche and are not in much use as well.

Considering all the facts I presented,and the fact that no other set(s) manage to beat this proportion of the meta, I call for a BAN ON POWER CONSTRUCT + REST COMBO.



Now that I've given my opinion on all I wanted to be banned, I'll give my opinions on something I wanted to get unbanned..
POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET
UNBANNED IN USUM 1v1

1) SPECIES CLAUSE:

??<-
->??


???
???

The species clause was introduced to make sure that there are no overusage of OP mons, and Pokemon with enough coverage to take out any opponent the opponent may have. But like, you could have two Charizard, one being X and other being Y, one taking care of some opponents and others taking care or some others. Here, species clause also brings with it the possibility of having a common counter for the all these, like Archeops. So, keeping in mind the possibility of having a common counter if bringing the same Pokemon, i call for a UNBAN ON SPECIES CLAUSE.

2) Shaymin-Sky:



Since its release in Generation 4, Shaymin-Sky has always been a decent Pokemon, with its signature move Seed Flare with a 120 Base Power along with a 80 percent chance of reducing the Special Defence by 2 stages and its Air Slash having a 60% chance of flinching, because of its Serene Grace ability. But apart from these weapons, which gives Shaymin-Sky tremendous stall-breaking capabilities, it gets nothing, and its typing in Grass/Flying is also very bad in 1v1 with common offensive Pokemon in 1v1 being Tapu Koko, Kyurem-B, Mega Charizard, Tapu Lele, Mega Metagross and Sturdy Pokemon, which can easily tank some hits from Shaymin-Sky and retaliate with their own. It is also a bit frail for its typing, thus not being able to tank its weakness.

Calculations:

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 326-386 (89.5 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 272-320 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 308-364 (85.7 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 235-277 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 258-304 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 282-334 (78.9 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These calcs show proof that the coverage moves it gets are not enough to KO relevant threats.

To conclude, it is a Pokemon a little better than a glass cannon, which deserves to be unbanned, and so I support for a UNBAN ON SHAYMIN-SKY.
I've said this before, but I don't think that sleep is inherently broken. If something is broken, it's the individual users of sleep (and I don' think any of them are).

Power Construct+Rest simply isn't broken. It does indubitably beat a lot of mons, but compare that to Kyurem-B's Choice Band or special Scarf sets, and it just doesn't seem like a lot anymore. Additionally, the very nature of Power Construct+Rest leaves it as a bit of a one-trick pony.

Special Clause absolutely deserves an uban. Nothing more to say.

It was as if you included and excluded Specs on your Shaymin calcs for whatever makes it look better. "It's so weak, it can't even OHKO Primarina" (It does with Specs) "Oh, but even with Specs it can't KO Metagross" etc... Additionally, 248/80 isn't even a Charizard Y spread; no one runs any SpD. When talking about Garchomp, you also excluded the superior coverage option: HP Ice. Finally, and most importantly by far, you straight-up excluded Air Slash from the narrative. You mentioned it once, and in a way that makes you quickly glance over it. Z moves and set speculation also wasn't discussed. What I've said has been a bit ad hominem, but Serene Grace Air Slash with everything else it has going for it is just not okay.

I've said this before many times, but just to be clear, I don't think Darkrai is broken and I do think Kyurem-B is. Also, jan Birachi.
 
My stance on some of the standing topics:

Sleep: Trying to target sleep as noncompetitive while not also discussing serene grace or paralysis is a case of double standards. As long as serene grace and paralysis are legal, no ban or suspect for sleep.

Zygarde-Complete: 1v1 is no stranger to boosting sweepers, but what makes zygarde particularly dubious is its ability to invalidate defensive mons in a way that no other setup sweeper can through use of rest PP stall. Sure other sweepers could use rest as well, but almost no other mons can utilise rest so effortlessly in the manner that Zygarde-C can since zygarde doesn't need to worry about a moveslot to account for ground immunities. All of Zygarde-Complete's attributes form a very dangerous 1v1 presence that should be suspect tested.

Shaymin-Sky: Really not 100% sure how I feel about this one. One one hand, it's relatively frail and struggles against certain common threats on paper. However, I can also see it obtaining a lot of wins against would-be counters by chipping away with air slash and then nuking with a powerful move (skymin would likely use supersonic skystrike and tectonic rage quite effectively). What separates Skymin from Jirachi and Togekiss is that it does not need to rely on a choice scarf to outpace a huge amount of the metagame and I really think that's all that's needed to push it over the edge. Sure Togekiss and Jirachi can outspeed through use of t-wave, but that wastes a whole turn where Skymin has already smacked you rather hard and sliced your special defense in half or already started flinch haxing you within range of a powerful move. As much as I would love to see Shaymin-Sky excel in 1v1, especially since it's one of my most favourite mons period, I just don't see it being edition to 1v1; not because of the hax, but for the speed that it gets to use those hax effectively without a scarf or t-wave. So IMO, keep it banned.

Species Clause: In my opinion, this clause is unnecessary. If someone brings any pokemon to battle, you can never really be sure of what the set is until you actually face it. Even if they bring 3 of the same pokemon this fact doesn't change. Only carrying one of a certain pokemon on a team in no way stops you from changing the sets or EV spread between battles (I have my own teams that are sometimes the same chosen pokemon, but just have different sets or spreads to account for certain threats more effectively). It seems that the species clause is meant to stop potential guessing games, but I'd say that's exactly what we already have to do with most Pokemon that aren't completely one-dimensional. Get rid of the species clause.
 
Okay, let's do this.....

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET BANNED IN USUM 1v1 :
1) Sleep
2) Power Construct + Rest


And things to be unbanned:

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET UNBANNED IN USUM 1v1:

1) Species Clause
2) Shaymin-Sky

I'll go through the points one by one, adding why i want them banned/unbanned.

POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET BANNED IN USUM 1v1 :

1) Sleep-Inducing:




Sleep-inducing has always been an essentially much used, much talked-about topic, and it is also been considered for a possible ban. Here's why I support a ban on sleep-inducing moves.

The sleep inducing strat has a problem both with the strategy and with the users of the strategy. While the strategy in itself is in no way flawed, it reduces the 1v1 metagame from being competitive to merely a metagame relying on luck to win. Also, it forces a choke in the team-building process wherein dedicated counters, like the moves Substitute or Taunt, or abilities like Insomnia and Magic Bounce which keeps the Pokemon from either falling asleep or Bouncing back the sleep-inducing move. Even then, Jumpluff has access to the ability Infiltrator, and Snorlax can use Z-Yawn regardless of whether it is taunted or not. Here's where the Pokemon using sleep-inducing strats come into play, where the sleep-inducing Pokemon themselves are of two categories, one being Pokemon being bulky enough to tank a hit and in turn induce sleep on foes, like Snorlax, Mega Swampert and Mega Venusaur, and the other being Pokemon which can outspeed the needed targets, induce sleep and wear them down or render them immobile to attack like Jumpluff and Smeargle. Also, while anti-sleep ban people say that there are enough countermeasures to counter sleep, I'd like to point out (again) that every other banned strategy in 1v1 had countermeasures and yet were banned because they were fundamentally crippling and bringing down the game for competitive levels.

Keeping all this in mind, I'd like to call a BAN ON SLEEP-INDUCING MOVES.

2) Power Construct + Rest:



Boi, this is a bit more interesting than the first one Ever since Zygarde entered the 1v1 metagame along with USUM Pokemon, it has indubitably( MaceMaster :D) left its impact, having the ability to take on Pokemon very much used in the game like Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard X and Y, Tapu Koko, Mega Venusaur, Landorus-T amongst many others. It has the innate ability to tank physical attackers to a great level, set up with Dragon Dance/ Coil, and KO them back with Substitute, Glare, and Rest to aid the behemoth in setting up. Once, it struck to me to see what amount of the meta this monster exactly takes on with its usual set(Rest/Sub/Coil/ThousandArrows), and the results were frightening:


According to October 1630 usage stats,
  • of the top 010 most used Pokemon, it defeats 07.
  • of the top 020 most used Pokemon, it defeats 12.
  • of the top 050 most used Pokemon, it defeats 30.
  • of the top 100 most used Pokemon, it defeats 62.
  • of the top 150 most used Pokemon, it defeats 89.

If you're really interested, I've made a list of Pokemon from the top 150 most used Pokemon which dies to PConstruct+Rest combination
  1. Mega Gyarados(Without Taunt, which only 7.895% use)
  2. Mega Charizard X
  3. Mega Metagross
  4. Tapu Koko
  5. Mega Charizard Y
  6. Mega Venusaur
  7. Landorus-Therian
  8. Donphan
  9. Mega Blaziken
  10. Mega Lopunny
  11. Heatran
  12. Aegislash
  13. Magearna
  14. Magnezone
  15. Mega Sableye(non Taunt variants)
  16. Victini
  17. Golem
  18. Mega Tyranitar
  19. Snorlax
  20. Mega Swampert
  21. Celesteela
  22. Mega Diancie
  23. Ferrothorn
  24. Mega Heracross
  25. Chansey
  26. Jirachi
  27. Crustle
  28. Tapu Bulu
  29. Mega Pinsir
  30. Kartana
  31. Mega Gengar
  32. Porygon2
  33. Mega Aggron
  34. Alolan Marowak
  35. Mega Scizor
  36. Haxorus
  37. Excadrill
  38. Volcanion
  39. Salazzle
  40. Jumpluff
  41. Mega Lucario
  42. Blissey
  43. Buzzwole
  44. Rotom-Wash
  45. Mega Gallade
  46. Nihilego
  47. Terrakion
  48. Aron
  49. Hawlucha
  50. Skarmory
  51. Aggron
  52. Umbreon
  53. Conkeldurr
  54. Mega Camerupt
  55. Archeops
  56. Durant
  57. Carracosta
  58. Chandelure
  59. Blaziken
  60. Gengar
  61. Bisharp
  62. Hitmonlee
  63. Entei
  64. Magnemite
  65. Mega Ampharos
  66. Arcanine
  67. Xurkitree
  68. Krookodile
  69. Darmanitan
  70. Rotom-Heat
  71. Klefki
  72. Talonflame
  73. Swampert
  74. Hippowdon
  75. Alolan Raichu
  76. Barbaracle
  77. Toxapex
  78. Rampardos
  79. Gliscor
  80. Machamp
  81. Magneton
  82. Tyranitar
  83. Azumarill
  84. Ambipom
  85. Shuckle
  86. Diggersby
  87. Granbull
  88. Zapdos
  89. Wobbuffet

This is the level of potency of the PConstruct+ Rest combo we are seeing about. Of course, there are some sets from the listed Pokemon which can counter Zygarde, but they are very niche and are not in much use as well.

Considering all the facts I presented,and the fact that no other set(s) manage to beat this proportion of the meta, I call for a BAN ON POWER CONSTRUCT + REST COMBO.



Now that I've given my opinion on all I wanted to be banned, I'll give my opinions on something I wanted to get unbanned..
POTENTIAL THINGS TO GET
UNBANNED IN USUM 1v1

1) SPECIES CLAUSE:

??<-
->??


???
???

The species clause was introduced to make sure that there are no overusage of OP mons, and Pokemon with enough coverage to take out any opponent the opponent may have. But like, you could have two Charizard, one being X and other being Y, one taking care of some opponents and others taking care or some others. Here, species clause also brings with it the possibility of having a common counter for the all these, like Archeops. So, keeping in mind the possibility of having a common counter if bringing the same Pokemon, i call for a UNBAN ON SPECIES CLAUSE.

2) Shaymin-Sky:



Since its release in Generation 4, Shaymin-Sky has always been a decent Pokemon, with its signature move Seed Flare with a 120 Base Power along with a 80 percent chance of reducing the Special Defence by 2 stages and its Air Slash having a 60% chance of flinching, because of its Serene Grace ability. But apart from these weapons, which gives Shaymin-Sky tremendous stall-breaking capabilities, it gets nothing, and its typing in Grass/Flying is also very bad in 1v1 with common offensive Pokemon in 1v1 being Tapu Koko, Kyurem-B, Mega Charizard, Tapu Lele, Mega Metagross and Sturdy Pokemon, which can easily tank some hits from Shaymin-Sky and retaliate with their own. It is also a bit frail for its typing, thus not being able to tank its weakness.

Calculations:

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 326-386 (89.5 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 272-320 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 308-364 (85.7 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 235-277 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 258-304 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-Sky Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 282-334 (78.9 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These calcs show proof that the coverage moves it gets are not enough to KO relevant threats.

To conclude, it is a Pokemon a little better than a glass cannon, which deserves to be unbanned, and so I support for a UNBAN ON SHAYMIN-SKY.
This is on my phone so don’t judge
Sleep: There are many things that beat all relevant sleep users, such as Greninja, Tapu Koko, any Magic Bouncer, any Ghost types in the case of Snorlax, any Grass types in the case of Smeargle, Venusaur or Jumpluff, and anything with Substitute.
Zygod with recovery: before I even start on your arguments, let me just point out the sheer hypocrisy of a person whose basic view on Marshadow was “let the meta settle” and is refusing a much worse Pokemon the same chance. Zygarde-complete is only a behemoth if you let it complete itself, so use a strong Ice-type attack and it’s just kinda dead. With the omnipresent Kyurem-Black, this should not be a problem. Or Greninja for that matter.
Skymin: “Sleep is luck based” “Let’s let the most powerful and fastest user of serene grace and air slash into the tier” I can take a lot of things, but not sheer hypocrisy.
Species Clause: I couldn’t care less about this really

Anyway, Greninja is a Pokémon I can see getting a lot better in USUM, so see y’all on the ladder!
 
im gonna do the same as ggopw and put my opinions, despite little people caring lol

sleep: ban (its annoying as hell and jumpluff makes me hate the game, extremely uncompetitive imo, but if not sleep in general then at least ban jumpluff that shit has no place in this metagame)
zygarde: its good as hell and beats a lot but its not broken imo, so keep unbanned
shaymin-s: keep banned last thing we need is a faster togekiss which is already annoying as fuck to deal with, extremely uncompetitive once again
species clause: keep oh man cant wait for everyone to be running dual charizards and both god damn porys, really looking forward to becoming AG
darkrai: keep banned honestly it would be aggravating to deal with, imo a lot like shaymin with really high speed and a 60% chance to win, not including specs sets with its amazing coverage moves (basically a more usable gengar-mega, which hypnosis on is already beyond tilting)
 
Why is sleep broken? It doesn't matter if it is broken.

The real point is that it is uncompetitive. Let's compare it to 3 things that are banned without even need of suspect: OHKO, accuracy lowering, evasion.

1. OHKO - Let's compare the math to the least accurate sleep move that is utilized, Hypnosis. Hypnosis has 60% accuracy with 66% chance the sleeping mon does not wake up first turn. .6*.66 is about 40% chance you get the free turn to set up the win. Obviously the math gets better as you use higher accuracy moves. OHKO moves are 30% accurate and you don't have to option to set up a sub to protect yourself from the failure that is first turn wake.
Additionally, the potential "abusers" of OHKO would be rather pathetic. Sheer Cold: Abomasnow (probably the most effective abuser of all OHKO); Guillotine: Kartana (I guess it doesn't gain too much from coverage), Pinsir (has much better things to do), Durant (going swarm?); Horn Drill: Excadrill (niche move for niche mon, at best), Dragonite (did you forget your movepool?); Fissure: Zard (why?), Donphan/Golem (maybe you finally beat Gyarados! if he doesn't flinch you...), Lando (why have nice things?)
Counters to OHKO may be far more numerous than counters to sleep. Sturdy has more users than Magic Bounce, more mons in the meta are immune to Fissure or Guillotine/Horn Drill than immune to sleep powder, and the counters to the actual pokemon that would use OHKO moves are numerous.
2. Accuracy lowering - The math on this is also clear. If Venusaur uses Mudslap, the opposing Mawile has a 75% chance to land an attack and a 100% chance to set up a Substitute or Swords Dance next turn. Meanwhile, if Venusaur uses Sleep Powder, Mawile has about a 50% chance to do anything at all next turn (75% accuracy * 66% you don't wake up). Additionally, accuracy lowering has 0 impact on landing a Z-attack or receiving Z-status boosts, while Z-moves cannot be used at all while asleep.

Potential abusers of accuracy lowering include: Venusaur, Chansey? Both of these have much better move options. Am I missing something else that would bother?

Counters include Clear Body, substitute/ground immunity for mud slap, taunt & magic bounce for flash.

3. Evasion
- Evasion is a stronger mechanic than accuracy lowering (not the point of this discussion) but the math is effectively the same as for accuracy lowering. I'm out of steam so see math above.

Replies to previous comments:
Sleep: Trying to target sleep as noncompetitive while not also discussing serene grace or paralysis is a case of double standards. As long as serene grace and paralysis are legal, no ban or suspect for sleep.
Serene Grace should be banned too (discuss soon after). Paralysis has different math so that's a different discussion.

Sleep: There are many things that beat all relevant sleep users, such as Greninja, Tapu Koko, any Magic Bouncer, any Ghost types in the case of Snorlax, any Grass types in the case of Smeargle, Venusaur or Jumpluff, and anything with Substitute.
Greninja & Koko beat Snorlax or Venusaur? There are 2 Magic Bouncers. How many usable grass types are there? (just the ones that can abuse sleep?). Put Crunch on Snorlax sometime and enjoy a day of freelo. Substitute - Smeargle has quick claw for a reason, good luck subbing on Gengar, Jumpluff.

In summary, no sleep suspect. Quick ban as you did with accuracy lowering.

- how many likes does it take to hold up a planet of text?
 
Nice post overall, I just wanna know why the Shaymin-Sky against Primarina isn't specs, seeing that you only put non-specs for Tapu Koko to outspeed it. (sorry for he one liner)
It was as if you included and excluded Specs on your Shaymin calcs for whatever makes it look better. "It's so weak, it can't even OHKO Primarina" (It does with Specs)
Dudes, what you fail to understand here is that a high base Special Attacker along with a very high Base Power Special Attack in Seed Flare should have ideally KOd any Water-type Pokemon, but it doesn't take a Water-type Pokemon which is too low in the usage list to actually tank something that is 2X against it, Primarina with its 80 HP/ 116 SpD is able to nearly tank it, was my point.




"Oh, but even with Specs it can't KO Metagross" etc... Additionally, 248/80 isn't even a Charizard Y spread; no one runs any SpD. When talking about Garchomp, you also excluded the superior coverage option: HP Ice. Finally, and most importantly by far, you straight-up excluded Air Slash from the narrative. You mentioned it once, and in a way that makes you quickly glance over it. Z moves and set speculation also wasn't discussed. What I've said has been a bit ad hominem, but Serene Grace Air Slash with everything else it has going for it is just not okay.
All other calcs are quite relevant, I don't see anything faulty or wrong, the specs calculation was to show that it doesn't even net the KO with specs, Specs vs Koko is irrelevant coz outspeeds, HP Ice does nothing against anything else but LandoT and Garchomp
252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 248 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 306-360 (85.2 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
. And if we are not unbanning a Pokemon just because it can flinch 60% of the time, purpose defeated. Z-Move Shaymin hits nothing ( Z-Seed Flare hits nothing but Water-types , Z-anything else doesn't exactly cut the edge), which is why i neglected mentioning them. Set speculation is after I get something worth mentioning, as of now, it's Scarf and Specs.
Why is sleep broken? It doesn't matter if it is broken.

The real point is that it is uncompetitive. Let's compare it to 3 things that are banned without even need of suspect: OHKO, accuracy lowering, evasion.

1. OHKO - Let's compare the math to the least accurate sleep move that is utilized, Hypnosis. Hypnosis has 60% accuracy with 66% chance the sleeping mon does not wake up first turn. .6*.66 is about 40% chance you get the free turn to set up the win. Obviously the math gets better as you use higher accuracy moves. OHKO moves are 30% accurate and you don't have to option to set up a sub to protect yourself from the failure that is first turn wake.
Additionally, the potential "abusers" of OHKO would be rather pathetic. Sheer Cold: Abomasnow (probably the most effective abuser of all OHKO); Guillotine: Kartana (I guess it doesn't gain too much from coverage), Pinsir (has much better things to do), Durant (going swarm?); Horn Drill: Excadrill (niche move for niche mon, at best), Dragonite (did you forget your movepool?); Fissure: Zard (why?), Donphan/Golem (maybe you finally beat Gyarados! if he doesn't flinch you...), Lando (why have nice things?)
Counters to OHKO may be far more numerous than counters to sleep. Sturdy has more users than Magic Bounce, more mons in the meta are immune to Fissure or Guillotine/Horn Drill than immune to sleep powder, and the counters to the actual pokemon that would use OHKO moves are numerous.
2. Accuracy lowering - The math on this is also clear. If Venusaur uses Mudslap, the opposing Mawile has a 75% chance to land an attack and a 100% chance to set up a Substitute or Swords Dance next turn. Meanwhile, if Venusaur uses Sleep Powder, Mawile has about a 50% chance to do anything at all next turn (75% accuracy * 66% you don't wake up). Additionally, accuracy lowering has 0 impact on landing a Z-attack or receiving Z-status boosts, while Z-moves cannot be used at all while asleep.

Potential abusers of accuracy lowering include: Venusaur, Chansey? Both of these have much better move options. Am I missing something else that would bother?

Counters include Clear Body, substitute/ground immunity for mud slap, taunt & magic bounce for flash.
3. Evasion - Evasion is a stronger mechanic than accuracy lowering (not the point of this discussion) but the math is effectively the same as for accuracy lowering. I'm out of steam so see math above.

Replies to previous comments:
Serene Grace should be banned too (discuss soon after). Paralysis has different math so that's a different discussion.

Greninja & Koko beat Snorlax or Venusaur? There are 2 Magic Bouncers. How many usable grass types are there? (just the ones that can abuse sleep?). Put Crunch on Snorlax sometime and enjoy a day of freelo. Substitute - Smeargle has quick claw for a reason, good luck subbing on Gengar, Jumpluff.

In summary, no sleep suspect. Quick ban as you did with accuracy lowering.

- how many likes does it take to hold up a planet of text?
Seconded. Nice factual post.
 
Why is sleep broken? It doesn't matter if it is broken.
Potential abusers of accuracy lowering include: Venusaur, Chansey? Both of these have much better move options. Am I missing something else that would bother?
alright to be fair the accuracy lowering ban was a combination of things, including aligning the meta with others and their similar-in-scope evasion clauses, but it was also in large part a relic of deoxys-defense. pressure+natural bulk+amnesia/iron defense+recover was strong enough on its own but mud slap made it strong and also annoying, so it was banned first. now that deo-d is banned, accuracy reducing moves wouldn't be a problem, but there's now way that they're gonna be unbanned because they dont really add anything and they feel bad to fight.
 
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