Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

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Nalei

strong, wild garbage
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Magnet Rise

Make use of your base form's higher defenses. Against Mega-Lopunny, for example. You beat Kyu-B aside from Scarf carrying Iron Head. Always click sub vs Kyurem. There's some untapped potential I think. You could make it beat different mons if you wanted, like Mega-Venusaur or Mega-Gyara.
You can indeed make it beat Mega Gyarados thanks to a combination of pre-mega bulk, post-mega speed, Clear Body and Rock Tomb. To do this, you need to give up some speed, though. Here's my set:

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 128 HP / 8 Atk / 244 SpA / 128 Spe
Rash Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Magnet Rise
 
Amidst all the discussion, since I'm looking for recognition, lemme post a team for the sample teams. This is a decent team, which has a very much proven track record for me, and evolved with me from a primitive team to the tough exterior it is today. Okay, straight at it:

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Charge
- Wild Charge
- Substitute

Take it slow,bro! (Slowbro-Mega) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Oblivious
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP /252 Def/ 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Iron Defense
- Rest

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 132 HP / 76 Atk / 100 Def / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm


I'll do a rundown of each Mon in this team, their role, and the weaknesses this team has.

METAGROSS-M:


EV's: 132HP/76Atk/100Def/200SpDef
Nature: Adamant(like me!)

This is the core around which I started building this team, and it is not too hard to see why I use this mon. It has good stats, awesome ability and moveset to support it; this moveset helps it in killing Kyurem-Black, the Tapus, Venusaur-M, Dragonite, Mawile-M, Porygon-Z, Lopunny-M, Mimikyu, Magearna, Nihilego, Avalugg and many more...... The 132HP/100Def/200SpDef is to tank physical-jolly/special-timid GigaVoltHavoc Tapu Koko in Electric Terrain.

By now, you're probably screaming in your heads, "Charizards kill you, duffer! Which brings me to my next Pokemon....

Tapu Koko:


EV's: 252Atk/4SpDef/252Speed
Nature: Jolly

Tapu Koko is the stall-killer in the team, which is also very essential in this team to kill formidable meta threats like Gyarados-Mega, and Mega-Charizard Y.

And by now you're minds would be exploding with q's like "Wait, so he just dies to Mega Charizard X? " which brings me to my final Pokemon

Slowbro-Mega:



EV's 252HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpA
Nature: Bold
IV's: 0Atk

This started off as a blanket physical wall for physical mons like charX,&Landorus-Therian , but turns out, this can kill more than just Charizard-Mega X. It's very useful for killing Ferrothorn, and many other stall with rest PP killing. And unlike many other Slowbro-M, which is stall-based, this one is set-up based, which is why I have Calm Mind instead of the usual Amnesia which is run.


Weaknesses:

Marowak-Alola is a main counter to this team since Slowbro-Mega can't stall enough out of 252+Atk Marowak-Alola. Landorus-Incarcarate has enough power with a Life Or or a choice specs to take out this team. Also, special Swampert-M seems to kill it actually!

Assessment:

This is one of my old yet good teams, I personally enjoy using this team, and I would recommend newbie 1v1 players to learn how to structure a team, because although this is not the best of teams, it is bases on sound logic! I hope this team is shown as a sample team by Uselesscrab, The Immortal or Dream Eater Gengar ;)
 
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Meet PU 1v1!!!
PU 1v1


Rules: Basically the rules are the same as 1v1 rules, but with the difference of using PU Pokémon rather than the Pokémon that are normally used in 1v1. But, there are some exceptions, with the exceptions being Pokémon that are in the PU tier and would normally be used, are banned since their usage in the 1v1 metagame is high. For example, Golem is a PU Pokémon, but its high usage in the 1v1 metagame prevents it from participating in this format.
Since PU is basically a tier for Pokémon not being allowed in this meta, the idea is that Pokémon that have high usage in the 1v1 metagame should not be used since they have a large advantage against other PU Pokémon.The banlist is basically made of PU Pokémon that have usage higher than 100.

Council:
Iron Crusher
Tallydaorangez
Whammerist
Wrath of Alakazam


Added Clauses: None

Banlist:Golem,Aggron,Avalugg,Jumpluff,Carracosta,Crustle,Relicanth,Slaking,Puykumuku

Item Banlist: Focus sash

List of usable Pokémon: Butterfree,Beedrill,Pidgeot,Raticate,Raticate-Alola, Fearow,Arbok,Pikachu-(Original,Hoenn,Sinnoh,Unova,Kalos,Alola),Sandslash,Ninetales, Parasect,Dugtrio-Alola,Persian,Persian-alola,Poliwrath,Victreebell,Rapidash,Farfetch'd,Dewgong,Muk,Hypno,Kingler,Electrode,Exeggutor, Executor-alola,Marowak,Hitmonchan,Weezing,Kangaskhan,Seaking,Mr.Mime,Jynx,Pinsir,Kabutops, Articuno,Meganium,Furret,Noctowl,Ledian,Ariados,Lanturn,Bellossom,Sudowoodoo,Politoed,Sunflora,Unown,Wobbuffet,Girafarig,Dunsparce,Granbull,Quilfish,Magcargo,Corsola,Octillery,Delibird,Stantler,Mightyena,Beautifly, Dustox,Ludicolo,Shiftry,Masquerain,Ninjask,Delcatty,Mawile,Manectric,Plusle,Minun,Volbeat,Illumise, Swalot,Wailord,Camerupt,Grumpig,Spinda,Cacturne,Altaria,Zangoose,Seviper,Lunatone,Solrock, Whiscash,Cradily,Armaldo,Castform,Kecleon,Banette,Tropius,Chimecho,Absol,Glalie,Walrein,Huntail, Gorebyss,Luvdisc,Regirock,Regice,Torterra,Bibarel,Kricketune,Luxray,Rampardos,Bastiodon,Wormadam, Wormadam-Sandy,Wormadam-Trash,Mothim,Vespiquen,Pachirisu,Floatzel,Cherrim,Drifblim,Lopunny, Purugly,Skuntank,Chatot,Carnivine,Lumineon,Abomasnow,Lickilicky,Magmortar,Leafeon,Glaceon, Probopass,Dusknoir, Rotom-Frost,Rotom-Fan,Mespirit,Regigigas,Phione,Watchog,Stoutland,Liepard, Simisage,Simisear,Simipour,Musharna,Unfezant,Zebstrika,Swoobat,Audino,Throh,Leavanny,Lilligant, Basculin,Basculin-Blue-Striped,Maractus,Archeops,Gothitelle,Swanna,Sawsbuck,Emolga,Eelektross,Beheeyem, Beartic,Golurk,Bouffalant,Heatmor,Gogoat,Meowstic,Meowstic-F,Dedenne,Carbink,Trevenant,Gourgeist,Toucannon,Gumshoos,Crabominable,Oricorio-(Normal Form,Pom-Pom,Pa'u,Sensu),Lycanroc,Lycanroc-Midnight,Wishiwashi,Mudsdale,Lurantis,Shiinotic,Oranguru,Passimian,Palossand,Silvally(all formes),Komala,Turtonator,Drampa,Guzzlord

Also by default, all NFE and LC Pokemon are allowed except: Aron

And to make things easier.....
Usable Pokemon (by Type):




(all forms except normal)














(all formes)
And all NFE and LC Pokemon except:


New update of the list is comming next week but most importantly Speed Tiers are out!!! Shoutout to motogp, for their usefull input on the making of the Speed Tiers<3.
Also a VR is about to come out by motogp and Whammerist, so like the Boy Scouts, be prepared!


<iframe src="https://pastebin.com/embed_iframe/5xCupeuT" style="border:none;width:100%"></iframe>

I hope this post was useful!
 
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Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
Meet PU 1v1!!!
PU 1v1


Rules: Basically the rules are the same as 1v1 rules, but with the difference of using PU Pokémon rather than the pokemon that are normally used in 1v1. But, there are some exceptions, with the exceptions being pokémon that are in the PU tier and would normally be used, are banned since their usage in the 1v1 metagame is high. For example, Golem is a PU Pokémon, but it's high usage in the 1v1 metagame prevents it from participating in this format.

Since PU is basically a tier for Pokémon that have really low(if not the lowest) competative usage, the idea is that Pokémon that have high usage in the 1v1 metagame should not be used since they have a large advantage against other PU Pokémon.

Added Clauses: None

Banlist:Aron,Magnemite,Magneton,Dusclops,Nosepass,Murkrow,Onix,Lairon,Type: Null,Vigoroth

List of usable Pokémon: Butterfree,Beedrill,Pidgeot,Raticate,Raticate-Alola, Fearow,Arbok,Pikachu-(Original,Hoenn,Sinnoh,Unova,Kalos,Alola),Sandslash,Ninetales, Parasect,Dugtrio-Alola,Persian,Poliwrath,Victreebell,Rapidash,Farfetch'd, Dewgong,Muk,Hypno,Kingler,Electrode,Exeggutor,Marowak,Hitmonchan, Weezing,Kangaskhan,Seaking,Mr.Mime,Jynx,Pinsir,Kabutops,Articuno,Furret,Noctowl,Ledian, Ariados,Lanturn,Bellossom,Politoed,Sunflora,Unown,Girafarig,Dunsparce,Magcargo, Corsola,Octillery,Delibird,Stantler,Mightyena,Beautifly,Dustox,Ludicolo,Shiftry, Masquerain,Ninjask,Delcatty,Mawile,Manectric,Plusle,Minun,Volbeat,Illumise, Swalot,Wailord,Camerupt,Grumpig,Spinda,Cacturne,Altaria,Zangoose,Seviper,Lunatone, Solrock,Whiscash,Cradily,Armaldo,Castform,Banette,Tropius,Chimecho,Absol,Glalie, Walrein,Huntail,Gorebyss,Luvdisc,Regice,Bibarel,Kricketune, Wormadam,Wormadam-Sandy,Wormadam-Trash,Mothim,Vespiquen,Pachirisu,Floatzel, Cherrim,Drifblim,Lopunny,Purugly, Skuntank,Chatot,Carnivine,Lumineon,Abomasnow,Lickilicky, Magmortar,Leafeon,Glaceon,Dusknoir, Rotom-Frost,Rotom-Fan,Regigigas,Phione, Watchog,Stoutland,Liepard,Simisage,Simisear,Simipour,Musharna,Unfezant,Zebstrika,Swoobat,Audino, Throh,Leavanny,Lilligant,Basculin,Basculin-Blue-Striped,Maractus,Gothitelle,Swanna, Sawsbuck,Emolga,Eelektross,Beheeyem,Beartic,Golurk,Bouffalant,Heatmor, Gogoat,Meowstic,Meowstic-F,Dedenne,Carbink,Gourgeist-SmallToucannon, Gumshoos,Crabominable,Oricorio-(Normal Form,Pom-Pom,Pa'u,Sensu),Lurantis,Shiinotic,Oranguru,Passimian, Palossand,Silvally-(Bug,Dark,Dragon,Electric,Fairy,Fighting,Fire,Flying,Ghost,Grass,Ground,Ice, Poison,Psychic,Rock,Steel,Water),Komala,Drampa,Guzzlord
Also by default, all NFE and LC Pokemon are allowed, except:
Aron,Magnemite,Dusclops,Nosepass,Murkrow,Onix,Lairon,Type: Null,Vigoroth

And to make things easier.....
Usable Pokemon (by Type):
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




(all forms except normal)



(Small form)


(Small form)









(all formes except normal)
And all NFE and LC Pokemon except:


If people actually show interest on this post, I will make sure that the list will be updated monthly(so we can have a monthly tour hopefully). If anyone finds a mistake please report it to me

I hope this post was usefull!!!
I'm gonna be teambuilding the crap out of this!!
A meta where my boy deilbird might be viable?? Hell yeah!!
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
With all this talk about PU 1v1, lemme share some potential sets I came up with!

780_Sprite.gif

Drampa @ Choice Specs
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Hyper Voice

Meet the PU Meloetta! Damn, is this guy gonna hurt like a bitch. An absolutely immense 135 Special Attack, along with a massive movepool and an ability which raises it's killing power even higher? Sign me right up!

Skuntank_XY.gif

Skuntank @ Black Glasses
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Spray
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Taunt

Skuntank's Defogging niche may be lost in the 1v1 environment, but don't count it out entirely, for it still has a unique trick up it's sleeve. The gist of this set is to weaken the foe with Acid Spray, and then batter them down with a powerful Dark Pulse! Couple this with Taunt, and you have a frighteningly efficient wall breaker on your hands.

Pikachu_XY.gif

Pikachu (F) @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Encore

Tallydaorangez already mentioned this guy being a fearsome offensive threat, and I don't disagree with him in the slightest. With Light Ball, Pikachu becomes only slightly weaker than Hoopa-Unbound, and with a wide variety of tools such as Fake Out, it's signature move Volt Tackle, along with Surf and Grass Knot to hit ground types, Pikachu will surely make a splash, and should be prepped for.

Dugtrio-alola.gif

Dugtrio-Alola @ Salac Berry
Ability: Tangling Hair
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endure
- Reversal
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

Seem familiar? You may recall Joker 1v1 sharing this set a few weeks back, and it gained quite a bit of traction from the 1v1 forum community. Now, put this guy in an environment where the competition for a good ground type is far less fierce, and it might just rise as a premier Ground type in PU 1v1.
 
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To add to Yung Dramps, I have a few mons to share as well about future possible suspects actually :

1)
Throh @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

It has too much HP(120) and decent defences (85/85) to support it's bulk. Also, it has guts/mold breaker which makes this mon versatile to the point where it is unhealthy in the fragile PU1v1 meta.

2)
Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Fire Punch

This smashing monster was initially banned and for some reason brought back. For its awesome abilities(Mold Breaker/Sheer Force) coupled with a moveset to rival some high usage mons makes this Mon too a potential threat.

Looking forward to getting these two banned xP
 
Ya boi is here back with another post, this time for PU 1v1
Have you noticed that we have never banned a grass type in 1v1? Well, it's time to do so!
Torterra @ Choice Band
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Superpower
Torterra is a terrifying threat due to it's decent hp and attack stat, great defenses and ofcourse a nice movepool. Other options include Giga Impact for raw power,Outrage to hit dragons, since every single PU dragon is slower than torterra, Iron Head for fairies,
Crunch for prominent ghost types like Trevenant, Golurk etc. and even Rock Slide/Stone Edge for Bug and Flying types that fail to OHKO it. Even though it does have it's counters Torterra carrying a Choice Band or Grassium Z could be an S tier threat in thr metagame, even resulting in a ban.
 
OPERATION 'SALVUM FACERE' (UNBAN DEOXYS)


Hey there 1v1, this is Whammerist with yet another forum post about another potential 1v1 suspect. However, please don't skip this one, as I genuinely believe that this unban will not only add a really cool mon into the tier but also help rebalance a lot of factors that seem to be frustrating some of my fellow 1v1 players.

OVERVIEW
So first things first, let's give a brief overview on what Deoxys-Base is as a mon and what a 1v1 with it unbanned might look like.



It's very obviously a glass cannon in a similar vain to Tapu Koko and PorygonZ, thought it doesn't really take me to tell you that. However, you've also got a lot of coverage as compared to those other nuking mons, along with the capabilities of going mixed. Bear in mind coverage choices like Ice Beam, Energy Ball, Extreme Speed, Focus Blast, Poison Jab, Knock Off, Superpower, Rock Slide, Fire Punch (no special fire moves), etc. 50/50/50 bulk however leads to the glass part of cannon, where Deoxys demonstrates it can pretty much take no hits. However, this is all pretty face value stuff.
What you might be concerned about, though, is its brokenness in the tier, however when examining the mon it should become very clear it is in fact not broken.

CHECKS AND COUNTERS
So what beats this thing?
Well here's the list, short and simple:

Mega Gyarados, Max Scarf Kyurem-Black, Scarf PorygonZ, Snorlax, Metagross-M, Mawile-M, Magearna, Mimikyu, Aegislash, Donphan, Super Stall Altaria-M, Blaziken-M (non Z move), Scarf Garchomp, Golem, Meloetta, Tapu Fini (with improved bulk), Carracosta, Crustle, Gardevoir-M, Jirachi, Scarf Kartana, Sawk, Swampert-M, Scarf Durant, Scarf Lati@s, Mew, Pheramosa, Scarf Hoopa-U, Scarf Landorus, Sableye-M, Scarf Victini, Dusclops, Hitmonlee, Scarf Infernape, Scarf Nihilego.

Wait, that's not short at all! Let's examine why this list is so plentiful, and prove why Deoxys-Base doesn't deserve to stay banned.

BALANCE OVERVIEW
  • 150 ATTACKING STATS DOESN'T GRAB CRUCIAL KILLS
Put simply, Deoxys-B is balanced when Deoxys-A isn't because 150 attacking stats doesn't isn't enough to grab some of the kills you need with your coverage.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 442-520 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys Thunder vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 332-392 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 294-348 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 150 SPEED DOESN'T OUTPACE OUR COMMON SCARFERS
Another issue with Deoxys-B is its speed. While it's very fast, isn't not fast enough to outpace our scarfers, and thus can't get far enough up the speed tiers to be "broken".

438: Deoxys-Base (max)
441: Fast Pheromosa
445: Scarf Genesect
459: Scarf PorygonZ
475: Scarf Kartana
475: Scarf Kyurem-Black
489: Scarf Genesect
492: Scarf Jirachi
492: Scarf Victini
496: Scarf Landorus
499: Scarf Garchomp
504: Deoxys-Speed
514: Scarf Greninja
522: Scarf Kartana
565: Scarf Greninja
  • NO WAY TO BREAK STURDIES
Lastly, any Sturdy mon can beat Deoxys as well, since it has no Fake Out and it can't survive a single hit from them.
0 Atk Mimikyu Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys: 298-352 (123.6 - 146%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(RIP)

SALVUM FACERE (TO SAVE)
Okay, so how does this 'save' 1v1? It's a bit of overstatement, I won't lie, but the introduction of Deoxys-B to the metagame undoubtedly has some positive effects if you look at the bigger picture. Firstly, with both it and its counters being more commonly used, it brings down the usage of a lot of mons people are frustrated with. Let's look at the suspect mons this mon nerfs.

Kyurem-Black: Beats all sets except Scarf, and inspires the use of mons like MGyara, Steel-types and scarfers like Chomp, Victini, Kartana, etc which counter both Deoxys and Kyurem.
Jirachi: Inspires the usage of pretty much all of its counters, like steels and faster scarfers.
Scarf Togekiss: Same as Jirachi, except Deoxys also beats this mon.
Jumpluff: Not only does it beat Jumpluff, but also inspires fast scarfer usage and use of Donphan.
Gengar-M: Pretty much same as Jumpluff.
Snorlax: Could work as a neat lure w/ Band and something like Superpower, Zen Headbutt, elemental punches, Knock, and also inspires use of counters like steels and some sturdies.

Not only is Deoxys a very cool unban, but it's also clear that it balances a lot of the mons people are currently discussing suspects of.

Keep in mind that the unban also has the effect of somewhat reducing ZMove usage, shifting focus to a lot of megas like Gyara, Metagross, Mawile, Gardevoir, Swampert, etc. Overall, I think the shift of the meta away from gimmickier mechanics like sleep and flinch without outright banning them is a really great way to handle these issues that are being raised. Not only that, but Deoxys-B also shifts the meta towards bulky mons/megas like Magearna, MGyara, Gardevoir, Meloetta, and fast scarfers like PZ, Victini, Garchomp, by both being countered by those mons and Deoxys being a great supporter to those mons like being a good check to a lot of gimmicky things that might harm them. When examining the change Deoxys-B will most likely cause to the meta, I overall believe it will be very much positive.

Overall, I think we should definitely consider an unban of the base forme of Deoxys, for the reasons listed above. Thank you for reading, and I'm very excited to see the discussion this creates :3
 
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DEG

The night belongs to you
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
No, I do not think Deoxys-N should be unbanned. All the points raised by Whammerist are okay and paints a picture of why Deoxys-N can be balanced in the current metagame but fails to show the other side. As mentioned Deoxys-N is a glass cannon like other Pokemon in the tier but it sports even less checks than the aforementioned glass cannons like Koko and Porygon-Z due to the fact it has more coverage moves which were covered above, even more than Kyurem-Black which allow it to run anything that the team needs with little to no opportunity loss.

In checks and counters there's lot of Pokemon that win just cause they outspeed such as Scarf Pokemon, these Pokemon can be dealt with by either running Choice Scarf on Deo-N as 150 Attack is enough to grab some kills with no investment. Or run some bulk like Porygon-Z to tank some kills and retaliate back easily.

Also I do not believe in the chain reaction that Deoxys-N will activate if it ever gets unbanned, it might sound logical but I don't think it will work as perfect as mentioned. Unbanning something broken to balance the metagame with its check? No thanks. It should be better to ban instead of unbanning an element that is broken.
 

Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
No, I do not think Deoxys-N should be unbanned. All the points raised by Whammerist are okay and paints a picture of why Deoxys-N can be balanced in the current metagame but fails to show the other side. As mentioned Deoxys-N is a glass cannon like other Pokemon in the tier but it sports even less checks than the aforementioned glass cannons like Koko and Porygon-Z due to the fact it has more coverage moves which were covered above, even more than Kyurem-Black which allow it to run anything that the team needs with little to no opportunity loss.

In checks and counters there's lot of Pokemon that win just cause they outspeed such as Scarf Pokemon, these Pokemon can be dealt with by either running Choice Scarf on Deo-N as 150 Attack is enough to grab some kills with no investment. Or run some bulk like Porygon-Z to tank some kills and retaliate back easily.

Also I do not believe in the chain reaction that Deoxys-N will activate if it ever gets unbanned, it might sound logical but I don't think it will work as perfect as mentioned. Unbanning something broken to balance the metagame with its check? No thanks. It should be better to ban instead of unbanning an element that is broken.
Provide me with actual factual evidence that supports these claims, I don't want to turn this into something going back and forth with people telling people why their calcs are wrong but I'd like at least some calcs from you that show the checks mentioned by Whammerist aren't necessarily reliable checks.

Also Whammerist at the same time could you show me how exactly it's so easy for those same checks to keep DeoN under control?
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
No, I do not think Deoxys-N should be unbanned. All the points raised by Whammerist are okay and paints a picture of why Deoxys-N can be balanced in the current metagame but fails to show the other side. As mentioned Deoxys-N is a glass cannon like other Pokemon in the tier but it sports even less checks than the aforementioned glass cannons like Koko and Porygon-Z due to the fact it has more coverage moves which were covered above, even more than Kyurem-Black which allow it to run anything that the team needs with little to no opportunity loss.

In checks and counters there's lot of Pokemon that win just cause they outspeed such as Scarf Pokemon, these Pokemon can be dealt with by either running Choice Scarf on Deo-N as 150 Attack is enough to grab some kills with no investment. Or run some bulk like Porygon-Z to tank some kills and retaliate back easily.

Also I do not believe in the chain reaction that Deoxys-N will activate if it ever gets unbanned, it might sound logical but I don't think it will work as perfect as mentioned. Unbanning something broken to balance the metagame with its check? No thanks. It should be better to ban instead of unbanning an element that is broken.
1. Scarf Deoxys-N sounds like a meme. The thing is, it's coverage is not powerful enough without a boost to grab KOes.

252 SpA Deoxys Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 194-230 (56.8 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (This applies to Jirachi too since they have the exact same defenses and are both weak to Ghost)

252+ Atk Deoxys Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 240-283 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (60 defense, everyone)

252+ SpA Deoxys Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 220-260 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The only scarfers Whammerist listed that Deo-N beats with a Scarf of it's own are Garchomp, Landorus-Therian, Kartana and Durant. The latter two of these mons aren't even that relevant anyway (Sorry UOP).

Meanwhile, the opportunity cost for running a Choice Scarf is simply too great. For instance, without the boost from a Choice Specs/Z-Crystal, you now lose to

Mega Aggron (If not Modest. If you are Modest, it's still just a 50/50):
252 SpA Deoxys Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 262-310 (76.1 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dragonite
252+ SpA Deoxys Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 240-284 (74.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tapu Lele
252+ SpA Deoxys Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 190-224 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I also calced Psycho Boost out of curiosity, it does slightly less)

Mega Charizard Y
252+ SpA Deoxys Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 247-292 (83.1 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Altaria (In order to even 50/50, the foe must be running no bulk whatsoever, and you need to be Modest. Nobody runs Mega Altaria without bulk, simple as that):

252+ SpA Deoxys Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria-Mega: 268-316 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I could go on, but I think I've made my point here. In short, don't use Scarf Deoxys-N: It loses to too many things it would normally do fine against and in return, it doesn't even do it's main job of beating Scarfers 100% of the time.

2. Bulk, you say?

0- SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys: 118-141 (38.8 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0- Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Nope.

Overall, I think that Deoxys-N would be a super fun addition to 1v1.

Screw Darkrai!
Screw Zygod!
#FreeMrNoodle
 

The Official Glyx

Banned deucer.
Personally, I believe Deoxys-N is the boundary for most OMs between whether they're OU-based or Uber-based. It's essentially as broken/splashable as Blaziken is, but nobody uses Blaziken to its potential anyways, hence why it's ranked so low in the VR, and because of this, I can't really say Deoxys-N would be a bad addition, seeing that the majority of this community prefers novelty and entertainment over balance. That said, if we DO end up unbanning Deoxys-N, I believe we would have to redraw the line in which a pokemon is deemed "too good" for 1v1.

If we unban Deoxys-N, we should also consider:

Deoxys-A: It only has slightly higher offenses than Deo-N, but low enough bulk to make it so that it can't even withstand things like Lopunny's Fake Out, essentially making it a worse Deo-N, since it can't really even be built to take any hits.

Deoxys-D: It used to rely on frustrating hax techniques to win battles, but now that Accuracy dropping moves have been banned, we should give this guy another chance, especially with all the crazy unban suggestions floating around. And we can't really say it was too OP if it never even got to S rank, right?

Zekrom: It has lower stats than Kyub in everything but the defenses, and replaces Ice STAB with Electric, essentially making it a weird hybrid between Kyub and Tapu Koko. Since Koko is stronger AND faster, while also having better opportunity at being mixed/special, you could essentially say this is a worse Tapu Koko.

Salamence-Mega: It was broken last gen due to how easily it was able to absorb most attacks and OHKO in retaliation, but seeing as how this generation is a lot more offensive, it would now struggle managing to avoid being OHKO'd without being forced to run way more investment than it would prefer, while at the same time also being hindered offensively due to the Ate's nerf from 1.3x to 1.2x.

Marshadow: The only thing it has over Deoxys-N is better typing and bulk, otherwise it's just plain slower and weaker while only really having 3 or so moves to choose from. If Deo-N is worthy of being unbanned, why not this?

Ho-oh: Its main niche in Ubers is abusing Regenerator, but since switching isn't a thing in 1v1, it can't perform that niche, similar to how the Deoxys family is mainly good for being hazard setters. Its only really noteworthy feature is its bulk, since there are already plenty of much stronger things floating around in 1v1 making that 130 Atk look weak by comparison.

Giratina-Origin: It has great stats and moves and all, but being forced to run an offensive item on a defensive mon takes a big toll on how well it can perform. Being slower than and vulnerable to most of the top threats in the meta will make life difficult for Tina.

Varying Arceus Formes: Similar to Giratina-Origin, the typed Arceus formes are required to hold their corresponding plates or Z-crystals, thus limiting their teambuilding potential. Naturally, some Arceus formes will still prove to be too good for 1v1, but since each forme gets treated individually, we'd at least be able to keep the weaker ones like Arceus-Bug or Arceus-Ice.


Satirical post aside, we really do have to make a definitive point on what gets considered "too broken" in 1v1, and more importantly, stick to it, since all we really have to go off of is the collective group of opinions provided by the members within the community, and look where those have gotten us-
If you were to ask me, I'd say mons like Deoxys-N, Blaziken, and maybe even Kyurem-Black are pretty good points of when a mon should be just barely considered "too good" for 1v1.
 

The Official Glyx

Banned deucer.
Just curious on why you hold this position. Is there something wrong with the standard Protect/Fire Attack/HJK/Filler set? Or is there a single dominating set that just doesn't see usage?
The thing about Blaziken is that it doesn't have an ideal "standard" set for 1v1, but instead a great many individual sets. It is the perfect mon for rounding out a core with only a few, specific weaknesses threatening it, since you can build Blaziken to beat almost any pokemon in 1v1.

As for my statement itself on how nobody uses it to its full potential, this applies to most mons, since most Showdown players will typically use either the automatic spreads or sets publicly provided by other players.

By no means am I saying that the typical Protect/Dual STAB/Z-move Blaziken is bad, just that it isn't the best way to go about using Blaziken, similar to how the standard 252Atk/252Spe Gyarados isn't the ideal set for it, despite being what's most frequently used.

I strongly believe Blaziken could shoot past the S rank mons in viability if people start using it like the team anchor it's supposed to be, but at the same time, I don't want to encourage people to use it, since with the little usage it currently has, it's basically like it never got unbanned :X
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
I strongly believe Blaziken could shoot past the S rank mons in viability if people start using it like the team anchor it's supposed to be, but at the same time, I don't want to encourage people to use it, since with the little usage it currently has, it's basically like it never got unbanned :X
What I got from this statement is that we shouldn't explore the possibilities of a mon that you think has incredible potential because it might become too much to handle. That just sounds extremely petty and stupid. If you think Blaziken has far more potential then what is currently being used, then share it, or test it on your own! Experimentation can lead to the discovery of incredibly useful Pokemon that can play a helpful role on teams that might have not been used before. Not even a month ago, Snorlax was B rank. Now, it's sitting comfortably in A- alongside Landorus-Therian, Aegislash and Donphan, and the lovable lard ball is acknowledged as a worthy competitor in the 1v1 environment. Experimentation can also help nail down broken mons, and can determine whether they might need a suspect. After all, few people thought Pheromosa was broken in OU until Quiver Dance gained traction. Dugtrio/Arena Trap wasn't considered broken until people started trying it on play styles other than Stall and found huge success.
 

Elo Bandit

youtube.com/ EloBandit
is a Community Contributor
The thing about Blaziken is that it doesn't have an ideal "standard" set for 1v1, but instead a great many individual sets. It is the perfect mon for rounding out a core with only a few, specific weaknesses threatening it, since you can build Blaziken to beat almost any pokemon in 1v1.

As for my statement itself on how nobody uses it to its full potential, this applies to most mons, since most Showdown players will typically use either the automatic spreads or sets publicly provided by other players.

By no means am I saying that the typical Protect/Dual STAB/Z-move Blaziken is bad, just that it isn't the best way to go about using Blaziken, similar to how the standard 252Atk/252Spe Gyarados isn't the ideal set for it, despite being what's most frequently used.

I strongly believe Blaziken could shoot past the S rank mons in viability if people start using it like the team anchor it's supposed to be, but at the same time, I don't want to encourage people to use it, since with the little usage it currently has, it's basically like it never got unbanned :X
Okay, so in other words Blaziken has the versatility to cover whatever threat the team needs it to. For example, it might act as a Gyarados lure/counter if the team desperately needs one. Let me see if I'm doing this right:


Blaziken-Mega @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Atk / 224 Def / 12 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect / Counter
- Bulk Up
- High Jump Kick
- Flare Blitz

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 224 Def Blaziken-Mega: 306-362 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bulk Up turn 1, HJK turn 2. Doesn't matter if they attack or DD. If you want to drop Protect or Flare Blitz for even better functionality vs non-mega Gyarados, use Thunder Punch or Counter instead. Speed is to creep Gyara, rest of points dumped in attack.


Golem @ Groundium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Counter
- Sucker Punch

It's Golem. It pulls in Gyarados while dealing with a wide range of fast attackers.


Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 20 Def / 212 SpA / 24 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak

Defensive Z-Aegislash breaks stuff like Tapu Lele and acts as a special nuke for the team. It also encourages opponents to pick Gyarados, if they have it.

~~
Correct usage of Blaziken? Or is the opportunity cost of not using a better all-around set too high?

EDIT: Here, watch it beat a Mandibuzz http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-633416370
 
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Okay, so in other words Blaziken has the versatility to cover whatever threat the team needs it to. For example, it might act as a Gyarados lure/counter if the team desperately needs one. Let me see if I'm doing this right:


Blaziken-Mega @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Atk / 224 Def / 12 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect / Counter
- Bulk Up
- High Jump Kick
- Flare Blitz

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 224 Def Blaziken-Mega: 306-362 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bulk Up turn 1, HJK turn 2. Doesn't matter if they attack or DD. If you want to drop Protect or Flare Blitz for even better functionality vs non-mega Gyarados, use Thunder Punch or Counter instead. Speed is to creep Gyara, rest of points dumped in attack.


Golem @ Groundium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Counter
- Sucker Punch

It's Golem. It pulls in Gyarados while dealing with a wide range of fast attackers.


Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 20 Def / 212 SpA / 24 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak

Defensive Z-Aegislash breaks stuff like Tapu Lele and acts as a special nuke for the team. It also encourages opponents to pick Gyarados, if they have it.

~~
Correct usage of Blaziken? Or is the opportunity cost of not using a better all-around set too high?

EDIT: Here, watch it beat a Mandibuzz http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-633416370
Just asking:
What if Gyarados just doesn't Mega which is what most of them do?
 

Elo Bandit

youtube.com/ EloBandit
is a Community Contributor
Just asking:
What if Gyarados just doesn't Mega which is what most of them do?
If they non-mega DD vs your Bulk Up, they're still likely to Mega for the kill turn 2, seeing the defense boost. Clicking HJK turn 2 usually seals the matchup. Alternatively, Bulk Up > Counter beats any DD > Attack combination.

If they non-mega attack turn 1, you can always just click Counter or Thunder Punch if you have it. The only Gyarados likely to do this are ones you already fought, since most Blaziken run Stone Edge. If you're fighting the same matchup repeatedly, it's very easy to predict your opponent to do the opposite thing as last match (if they lost by DDing last game, they'll try attacking this game). It takes some prediction skill but in 9/10 cases Gyarados will Mega regardless.
 

The Official Glyx

Banned deucer.
I took a bit more of an eccentric route, since I personally hate relying on Counter, but even then, it still ends up being yet another 50/50 between the two most 50/50 mons in 1v1

Blaziken @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpA
Lax Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Focus Blast
- Endure
- Rock Slide

You win if they waterfall and don't flinch/crit while mega evolving, and otherwise 50/50 if they don't mega and/or DD. HP Electric also helps reveal EVs, since
56 SpA Blaziken Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
56 SpA Blaziken Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 200-236 (60.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And in the event they aren't bulked specially:
56 SpA Blaziken All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 117-138 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Stuck Rock Slide on there so it can also have a chance vs the zards, and Endure over Protect because Hyper/Impact exists
 

Elo Bandit

youtube.com/ EloBandit
is a Community Contributor
I took a bit more of an eccentric route, since I personally hate relying on Counter, but even then, it still ends up being yet another 50/50 between the two most 50/50 mons in 1v1

Blaziken @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpA
Lax Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Focus Blast
- Endure
- Rock Slide

You win if they waterfall and don't flinch/crit while mega evolving, and otherwise 50/50 if they don't mega and/or DD. HP Electric also helps reveal EVs, since
56 SpA Blaziken Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
56 SpA Blaziken Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 200-236 (60.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And in the event they aren't bulked specially:
56 SpA Blaziken All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 117-138 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Stuck Rock Slide on there so it can also have a chance vs the zards, and Endure over Protect because Hyper/Impact exists
Okay, I like the set even if it's a little unorthodox (I'd probably stick Blast Burn in place of Rock Slide and pair it with something that beats both zards). I do question the lack of speed - can't Gyarados simply DD and outspeed you turn 2? You're not landing a second hp ele or zmove before it Waterfalls you away at +1. Even if you Endure for another speed boost, Gyarados knows you're likely to Protect that turn and you're stuck in another 50/50 whether he DDs or attacks. It just seems easier if you outspeed Gyarados without boosts.
 

The Official Glyx

Banned deucer.
You win if they waterfall and don't flinch/crit while mega evolving, and otherwise 50/50 if they don't mega and/or DD.
perhaps I should have verbally clarified the implied turn 2

imo if you're gonna drop slide for anything, make it Will-o-Wisp, since it tanks stuff like Z-Quake with burn drop and OHKO's back.
 

Elo Bandit

youtube.com/ EloBandit
is a Community Contributor
perhaps I should have verbally clarified the implied turn 2

imo if you're gonna drop slide for anything, make it Will-o-Wisp, since it tanks stuff like Z-Quake with burn drop and OHKO's back.
oh mb, I must have missed that

While I do like the defensive utility of will-o I think I might have found something even better.


rip fish (Blaziken-Mega) @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 244 Atk / 32 Def / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Thunder Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Brave Bird / Flare Blitz / Filler

No 50/50s vs Gyarados.
You still 50/50 on the mega, but now you get two chances.

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. +1 0 HP / 32 Def Blaziken-Mega: 254-300 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 508-600 (128.9 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244+ Atk Blaziken-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 504-594 (127.9 - 150.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
...and you outspeed. And you get a moveslot for whatever you want.
 
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fanyfan

i once put 42 mcdonalds chicken nuggets in my anus
It's been 1 month since the council decided to quickban Marshadow and we have 2 more months until Ultra Sun / Ultra Moon is released. Recently Whammerist suggested that we unban Deoxys to "save" the metagame. But well, I have a better suggestion.

UNBAN MARSHADOW
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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
I bet that after seeing this you'll be like "dude wtf is wrong with you Marshadow is broken af"
And I'll remind you that Kyurem-Black is still a thing.But we are not here to talk about how broken Kyurem-Black is that's a post for later.
Rather, I am here to get Marshadow unbanned.

First of all, why was it even banned? Yeah I get it's a good wallbreaker so and? Let me get you some counters for it.
Tapu Koko
Tapu Fini
Altaria-Mega
Celesteela
Diancie/Diancie-Mega
Landorus-Therian
Lopunny-Mega
Mawile-Mega
Mimikyu
Swampert-Mega
Scizor-Mega
Talonflame
and more...

Secondly, Marshadow's decent speed and attack stats make it able to beat sleep abusers such as Jumpluff and Mega Gengar that are considered unhealthy by many.


Moreover, it beats Kyurem-Black.

Lastly, I am against the action of quickbanning Marshadow or anything, because it should be decided by the players whether a pokemon is broken or not.

Yeah that wasn't a long post.
Here's a post to explain why had Marshadow was banned and how it got around a lot of those supposed "Counters".
My thoughts on Marshadow, Deoxys Defense, and the current Suspect Test.


Here are some fun sets mentioned in the video:

Marshadow @ Marshadium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 68 Atk / 188 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Bulk Up

Standard Marshadow, you can alt Will-O, Shadow Sneak, Fight Z, etc.


Marshadow @ Assault Vest
Ability: Technician
EVs: 136 HP / 244 Atk / 44 Def / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab

AV Marshadow to bait special Koko, Lati@s, Fini, etc.


Marshadow @ Roseli Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 8 HP / 108 Atk / 252 Def / 140 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Substitute
- Endeavor
- Counter / Close Combat

Defensive Roseli Berry to bait Mega Mawile, Mega Lopunny, Mimikyu, and Magearna.


Deoxys-Defense @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 168 HP / 180 SpA / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Trick / Hidden Power [Fire]

The only Deoxys set worth using right now. Snipes Marshadow and Heracross, acts as standard CounterCoat otherwise. Trick shuts down setup/status/sub of pokemon without Z-Crystals or Mega stones. You can slide the HP and SpA around, I like this spread because it KOs most Marsh/Hera without sacrificing too much HP (countercoat effectiveness).
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
It's been 1 month since the council decided to quickban Marshadow and we have 2 more months until Ultra Sun / Ultra Moon is released. Recently Whammerist suggested that we unban Deoxys to "save" the metagame. But well, I have a better suggestion.

UNBAN MARSHADOW
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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
I bet that after seeing this you'll be like "dude wtf is wrong with you Marshadow is broken af"
And I'll remind you that Kyurem-Black is still a thing.But we are not here to talk about how broken Kyurem-Black is that's a post for later.
Rather, I am here to get Marshadow unbanned.

First of all, why was it even banned? Yeah I get it's a good wallbreaker so and? Let me get you some counters for it.
Tapu Koko
Tapu Fini
Altaria-Mega
Celesteela
Diancie/Diancie-Mega
Landorus-Therian
Lopunny-Mega
Mawile-Mega
Mimikyu
Swampert-Mega
Scizor-Mega
Talonflame
and more...

Secondly, Marshadow's decent speed and attack stats make it able to beat sleep abusers such as Jumpluff and Mega Gengar that are considered unhealthy by many.


Moreover, it beats Kyurem-Black.

Lastly, I am against the action of quickbanning Marshadow or anything, because it should be decided by the players whether a pokemon is broken or not.

Yeah that wasn't a long post.
Tapu Koko: I'll give you this one.

Tapu Fini: I'll also give you this one.

Altaria-Mega: 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. +1 0 HP / 120 Def Marshadow: 270-320 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 136 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Altaria-Mega: 390-460 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edit: Giga Impact/Hyper Beam exist. Fricc, you got me.

Celesteela: 252 Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 135-160 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- 41% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 219-258 (55 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Celesteela Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 186-222 (57.9 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In short, the only way Celesteela wins all the time is with Specs or something. Leech Seed + Protect gets cucked by Bulk Up.

Diancie: 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 219-258 (90.8 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
And no, bulky regular Diancie is bad.

Landorus-Therian: Not gonna go into logistics, but Will-O Marsh won unless it was Flyinium, which is suboptimal, and was only used because Marsh was still around.

Lopunny-Mega: Loses to bulkier Marshadows unless Sub + Flail.

Mawile-Mega: You got me on this one, unless you run into that shitty Roseli Berry bait set that was running around.

Mimikyu: Cursekyu loses to Will-O, and SD Mimikyu has no relevance at all anymore.

Mega Swampert: Still gets fricced in some scenarios by Bulk Up + Will-o, I think. Feel free to prove me wrong!

Scizor-Mega: Again, Will-o Bulk Up.

Talonflame: ok, but...


>talonflame

Also, I see some people saying "If Deoxys-N can be unbanned, why not Marshadow?" Thing is, Deoxys isn't anywhere NEAR as bad as Marshadow, or even something like Kyurem-Black, for a handful of reasons:

1. It can't cheese past it's counters like those two can. You see, a lot of the Marsh/Kyub lure sets utilize those mons' decent bulk, such as Roseli Berry/Bulk Up on Marsh and Weakness Policy on Kyub. Deoxys does not have that. It's so bad, Iron Defense/Amnesia cannot save it.

2. Bad offensive typing. Ghost/Fighting is probably the best offensive typing in the game. Dragon/Ice, coupled with 100 BP Physical Electric coverage, is also super solid. Pure Psychic, on the other hand, is just bad.

3. "But what about it's coverage movepool?" For one, most of Deoxys' "amazing coverage" is not even that useful. Like, what are you gonna do with Poison Jab and Drain Punch? Also, as I showed in an earlier post, it isn't even that strong anyway. If it had Hypnosis, a fairly common status move for Psychic types, I would say "no, keep it banned", at least until a potential Sleep banned. But once again, Deo-N does not have that.

So yeah. Marshadow was FAR more unhealthy for the meta than Deoxys-N will ever be.

#FreeMrNoodle

P.S. Could you pls list those other supposed counters kthx

P.S.S. Sorry if the end seemed rushed I have to piss lol and I don't wanna leave my school PC unattended or bring it into the digusting school bathrooms
 
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