Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

Blanched said:
ok lets start a quick discussion on cinderace:
This guy functionally beats every mon in the tier with 10+ sets like band, bu taunt, passho counter, scarf, specs, etc. etc. Consistent counterplay doesn't really exist, every mon conceivably loses to some cinder set, and with the annihilape suspect currently ongoing its making getting reqs an even more difficult chore. Our options as of right now are leave cinderace in the tier, suspect/qb cinderace after the annihilape suspect, qb cinder now, or qb cinder now and resuspect it after the annihilape suspect. I'm personally in favor of qb'ing cinder asap to reduce the amount of inconsistency and mu fishing on the suspect ladder, and just not resuspecting it later. I think cinder is a clear cut case of broken mon with no viable counterplay that doesn't leave a team with massive holes, especially in the current broken-check-broken meta we find ourselves in. The 1v1 council is interested in hearing the thoughts of the community before taking action, but as the ape suspect is nearing its close a fast decision is the best choice we have right now.
Click to expand...
Cinderace isn’t broken one bit. Just because he can run multiple sets doesn’t make him broken. He is not on chi-yu’s level, he is not on palafins level, and he is walled by plenty of mons in this current meta. I find it funny how we call him broken when he is just Meowscarada adjacent.

I feel like every time a strong Pokémon is being ya know (strong), we are quick to throw the word broken around.

without a doubt cinderace is strong but broken? Not at all and I will tell you why.
  1. Cinderace has good coverage but cannot run all of his moves. The popular sets are running court change. When means effectively he can only have two coverage moves outside of his PB and CC. Most will run u-turn for quick pivots or sucker punch for priority. Effectively leaving him with only three to four viable coverage options.
    I should note that if some opts to not run CC then they can have more coverage but then cinderace become just a coverage Mon and loses its unique niche which makes it potent in our trap stack meta. Additionally in a hazard stacking meta if Cinderace is not running heavy duty boots and opting for a more choice band or bulk up/SD set, his glaring weakness to hazards become all to obvious.
  2. There are way too many answers for him, regardless of sets.
  3. Libro nerf makes it a shell of its previously potent self



A few OU mons that check his most popular sets of choice band and heavy duty boots:
  1. Dondozo (best check in the meta)
  2. Defensive Toxapex (Depending on zen headbutt coverage
  3. Great Tusk (depending on zen headbutt coverage)
  4. Skeledirge
  5. Ceruledge (wins 1v1 more often that not)
  6. Chi-Yu Scarf man handles him
  7. Dragapult specs or band (depending on sucker punch coverage)
  8. Full rain teams that are popular now completely stuff him as well.
  9. Clodsire ( if you are not running zen headbutt, then this is pesky although is is usually a special wall)
  10. Choiceband Roaring Moon outspeeds at jolly and OHKOs with earthquake
  11. Popular bulky Dragonite with no attack investment handles Cinderace in 2 rounds
  12. Garchomp is self explanatory

Treats lower than OU and are valuable checks:
  1. Slowbro
  2. Choice band Azumarill AJ has a 69% chance to OHKO
  3. Rotom Wash (situational)
I am sure that more are around but that’s besides the point. Cinderace is strong as he should be due to his hazard countering niche and good coverage but broken is something I completely disagree with.
 
TrueMagic said:
Cinderace isn’t broken one bit. Just because he can run multiple sets doesn’t make him broken. He is not on chi-yu’s level, he is not on palafins level, and he is walled by plenty of mons in this current meta. I find it funny how we call him broken when he is just Meowscarada adjacent.

I feel like every time a strong Pokémon is being ya know (strong), we are quick to throw the word broken around.

without a doubt cinderace is strong but broken? Not at all and I will tell you why.
  1. Cinderace has good coverage but cannot run all of his moves. The popular sets are running court change. When means effectively he can only have two coverage moves outside of his PB and CC. Most will run u-turn for quick pivots or sucker punch for priority. Effectively leaving him with only three to four viable coverage options.
    I should note that if some opts to not run CC then they can have more coverage but then cinderace become just a coverage Mon and loses its unique niche which makes it potent in our trap stack meta. Additionally in a hazard stacking meta if Cinderace is not running heavy duty boots and opting for a more choice band or bulk up/SD set, his glaring weakness to hazards become all to obvious.
  2. There are way too many answers for him, regardless of sets.
  3. Libro nerf makes it a shell of its previously potent self



A few OU mons that check his most popular sets of choice band and heavy duty boots:
  1. Dondozo (best check in the meta)
  2. Defensive Toxapex (Depending on zen headbutt coverage
  3. Great Tusk (depending on zen headbutt coverage)
  4. Skeledirge
  5. Ceruledge (wins 1v1 more often that not)
  6. Chi-Yu Scarf man handles him
  7. Dragapult specs or band (depending on sucker punch coverage)
  8. Full rain teams that are popular now completely stuff him as well.
  9. Clodsire ( if you are not running zen headbutt, then this is pesky although is is usually a special wall)
  10. Choiceband Roaring Moon outspeeds at jolly and OHKOs with earthquake
  11. Popular bulky Dragonite with no attack investment handles Cinderace in 2 rounds
  12. Garchomp is self explanatory

Treats lower than OU and are valuable checks:
  1. Slowbro
  2. Choice band Azumarill AJ has a 69% chance to OHKO
  3. Rotom Wash (situational)
I am sure that more are around but that’s besides the point. Cinderace is strong as he should be due to his hazard countering niche and good coverage but broken is something I completely disagree with.
Click to expand...
I don't know what are you talking about, but you are in 1v1 sub-forum... not OverUsed.
 
TrueMagic said:
Cinderace isn’t broken one bit. Just because he can run multiple sets doesn’t make him broken. He is not on chi-yu’s level, he is not on palafins level, and he is walled by plenty of mons in this current meta. I find it funny how we call him broken when he is just Meowscarada adjacent.

I feel like every time a strong Pokémon is being ya know (strong), we are quick to throw the word broken around.

without a doubt cinderace is strong but broken? Not at all and I will tell you why.
  1. Cinderace has good coverage but cannot run all of his moves. The popular sets are running court change. When means effectively he can only have two coverage moves outside of his PB and CC. Most will run u-turn for quick pivots or sucker punch for priority. Effectively leaving him with only three to four viable coverage options.
    I should note that if some opts to not run CC then they can have more coverage but then cinderace become just a coverage Mon and loses its unique niche which makes it potent in our trap stack meta. Additionally in a hazard stacking meta if Cinderace is not running heavy duty boots and opting for a more choice band or bulk up/SD set, his glaring weakness to hazards become all to obvious.
  2. There are way too many answers for him, regardless of sets.
  3. Libro nerf makes it a shell of its previously potent self



A few OU mons that check his most popular sets of choice band and heavy duty boots:
  1. Dondozo (best check in the meta)
  2. Defensive Toxapex (Depending on zen headbutt coverage
  3. Great Tusk (depending on zen headbutt coverage)
  4. Skeledirge
  5. Ceruledge (wins 1v1 more often that not)
  6. Chi-Yu Scarf man handles him
  7. Dragapult specs or band (depending on sucker punch coverage)
  8. Full rain teams that are popular now completely stuff him as well.
  9. Clodsire ( if you are not running zen headbutt, then this is pesky although is is usually a special wall)
  10. Choiceband Roaring Moon outspeeds at jolly and OHKOs with earthquake
  11. Popular bulky Dragonite with no attack investment handles Cinderace in 2 rounds
  12. Garchomp is self explanatory

Treats lower than OU and are valuable checks:
  1. Slowbro
  2. Choice band Azumarill AJ has a 69% chance to OHKO
  3. Rotom Wash (situational)
I am sure that more are around but that’s besides the point. Cinderace is strong as he should be due to his hazard countering niche and good coverage but broken is something I completely disagree with.
Click to expand...
this thread is for 1v1, not OU
LeCehlou said:
I don't know what are you talking about, but you are in 1v1 sub-forum... not OverUsed.
Click to expand...
:greninja:
 
Taking a moment to talk about some things that have been on my mind.

A few thoughts on teambuilding: it was absolute pain at the start of the generation but I feel like its stabilizing a bit as long as you don't slap on three brokens and hope they synergize together. Pokemon like :ursaring: :bellibolt: :abomasnow: :haxorus: :volcarona: and others have unique traits that allow them to cover mus a chi-yu / annihilape / gholdengo /etc ... can't.
There are a ton of new fun (and sometimes better!) cores to explore once ppl stop spamming chiyu/dirge/arcanine + dozo/azu/bundle.

Secondly, the more I think about it, the more I feel like Chi-yu is not a healthy influence on the meta.
I have compiled a list of counters/generally solid answers to it below though I think that analyzing it only through the lens of a vacuum doesn't do it justice. At preview Chi-yu struggles to ever beat less than 1.5/3 of the opposing team and oftentimes can soft 3-0 or help break down the opposing team structure by narrowing down what sets opposing pokemon are. It exerts ridiculous pressure on the opposing team - nothing resists its stabs + psychic / hyper beam.
Setguessing it is a nightmare because if you pair it with any other minimally versatile pokemon you can hide its set pretty well.
While it does have more hard counters than annihilape each of its sets cover larger portions of the meta. With av it can beat EVERY special attacker bar mixed goodra and hard spdef stall. Specs obliterates non resists and I fear the day ppl start running bulk and it starts beating all the av/scarf mons that try to beat it while not resisting its dual stabs. Scarf doesn't cover as much as other sets but the surprise factor and the ability to pick off faster threats that think they can ohko you adds a level of unpredictability at preview that only favors the chi-yu user. Imo having an effective base special attack stat of 186 and ok speed for a breaker along with far too good special defense and only somewhat lacking physdef is what pushes it over the edge and over and above the rest of the meta. Of the four types supereffective against it, fighting, ground, rock, water, only rock resists its strongest stab and currently we have half a viable rock type. Water types are often forced to max their spdef in order to tank its hits and fightings that beat it generally need some way to boost their speed to try and not drop to its attacks. Overall I fear that its presence is overbearing and should be looked into.

:dondozo: - band wins pretty handily, though curse really wants to run lefties and more physbulk and isn't really allowed to do either.
:azumarill: - IMO av is an incredibly mid set that loses to sableye and dirge but lorb/choice band still do pretty well.
:donphan: forced into lum is not terrible as it can use it to fake beat dirge.
:ting-lu: incredibly overrated IMO as it has 0 useful coverage bar heavy slam (and even with it it struggles vs fairies) + its bad speed tier its a bit of a sitting duck but one thing it does well is ruination -> eq to win reliably.
:garchomp: this mon is struggling imo, maybe someone's made a cool set, but one thing it does is beat chiyu + gholdengo reliably.
:goodra: you need to run eq or else u lose to av chiyu and also need to be careful around WP but acid spray -> move should win.
:tyranitar: kinda bad rn, doesnt beat ghold, can't beat sylv + arcanine in one set. Struggles with item/evs.
:roaring moon: another middle of the pack dark type that does ok as a scarfer but doesn't really stand out as having any exceptional traits.
:gastrodon: run a stab move or else crit bait but reasonably solid.
:gyarados: who uses this?

:iron valiant: valiant can run a physical fighting move to 100% but often doesn't, usually favorable for it, though I've seen occasional fire + beam coverage on chiyu which wins vs moonblast. Non speedbooster sets lose to scarf chiyu though that isn't a huge deal.
:iron hands: its a mess of a mu but wisp chi-yu has real chances to beat most iron hands, at best ihands needs to setguess
:arcanine: depending on bulk and speed its a bit of a mess of a mu, at best arcanine needs to setguess.
:great tusk: you CAN run obese av and win by surprise factor though if u get wisped gg. Speed booster does p well tho against anything but scarf.
:ursaring: guts is goated but you need to setguess specs vs nonspecs as cc on WP loses.
:talonflame: almost very reliably wins with spdef invest but I've gotten finessed by flame charge -> dark pulse from WP Chi-yu.

:iron treads: this mon is so bad and literally doesn't win even with ada scarf against bulky variants. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-1760745971-emftbjuszps9pq97koqklkn2y6bw2f9pw
:flutter mane: u do pretty okay with clear amulet until av runs payback. Normal sets lose to av chiyu.
:sylveon: you either run max max spdef wishtect cm or lose. Bulky specs does ok until u run into av chiyu.
:iron bundle: you lose to av and sometimes scarf.
:meowscarada: band wins vs non-scarf.
:rotom wash: you can run obese specs and lose to av chiyu.
:chien-pao: lose to scarf.
:avalugg: lose to wisp.
:bellibolt: spdef bellibolt loses to nasty plot variants/can get rolled by modest specs.

High chance that i missed a pokemon or two but I hope it serves to give a general idea. Another thing that compounds the chi-yu problem is that a lot of its hard answers share weaknesses to common types/coverage or can be walled by strong physdef pokemon as they are mostly strong attackers.

Code: 
Chi-Yu @ Assault Vest 
Ability: Beads of Ruin 
EVs: 248 HP / 20 SpA / 240 SpD 
Modest Nature 
- Snarl 
- Payback 
- Overheat 
- Ruination
takes a 1/16 roll vs modest specs bundle but having modest is important IMO. I clicked dark pulse little enough that I swapped it for payback, a Deddd tech to beat flutter mane 100%.

Code: 
Chi-Yu @ Choice Specs 
Ability: Beads of Ruin 
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA 
Bold Nature 
- Overheat 
- Dark Pulse 
- Psychic 
- Hyper Beam
This set lives everything and is incredibly threatening to weak pokemon that hope to snipe chi-yu and bank on only WP chiyu being bulky. It has a very favorable roll vs speed booster great tusk which I think is hilarious.

Code: 
Chi-Yu @ Choice Scarf 
Ability: Beads of Ruin 
EVs: 84 HP / 248 SpA / 176 Spe 
Timid Nature 
- Overheat 
- Dark Pulse 
- Psychic 
- Hyper Beam
A bit of bulk for specs zone/specs flutter moonblast is nice.
 
Chi yu (best mon in the tier) and gholdengo (despite being only like 3rd best imo) are both unhealthy and annoying (as FUCK) for the meta. Chi yu because of the reasons mentioned above but gholdengo is for another reason. Good as gold makes it pretty much impossible to tech, meaning that you basically have to run 1 of a list of like 8 mons which 50% of the time is gonna be Chi yu or specs flutter mane that can beat it and nothing else, especially with that new (Fuck you frUan) reflect wp set that beats another half of the meta with no way to check it. And because your not gonna beat it with anything else and your opponent knows it, every game with a gholdengo just turns into a 50/50 between gholdengo and another Pokémon vs ghold counter and filler, with little other depth or setguessing which is boring as fuck and unhealthy (ooh buzzword xddd) for the meta. Every single time there is a gholdengo on preview and it is a viable pick I immediately become comatose komala Harris + sleepy forme Joe Biden drowsy because it’s so fucking boring and there’s like literally just a 50/50 between probably a chi yu and a gholdengo i stg it’s like half of all sv games now just come down to that. We need Obama to give us home ASAP so we have more mons than chi yu valiant flutter mane gholdengo hands goodra annhilape is not a top tier dragapult please mr care I’m HUNGERING on h my goodness. Another thing, annhilaple is nowhere near the most atrocious mon in the tier, like every top tier beats it somehow It loses to gholdengo, loses to offensive valiant prolly it’s a fairy type, loses to flutter mane, loses to chi yu most of the time, probably loses to hands unless they they pull a rumia V clicking taunt vs gholdengo with iron hydreigon and fake out t1, loses to curse lefties dondozo, etc etc, it may be the most overrated mon since BEN SIMMONS that’s right you heard me AHHNILAPE IS THE BEN SIMMONS OF 1V1 GOOD NIGHT.
BTW tyranitar can and does beat gholdengo with the right set S/o waylaid. you are wrong fruan.
 
2022 1v1 Awards Results
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Favorite Pokemon of Gen 9 1v1 so far?
:chi-yu: Chi-Yu - 6 :chi-yu:
:iron-valiant: Iron Valiant - 5 :iron-valiant:
:great-tusk: Great Tusk - 5 :great-tusk:

Best teambuilder of 2022?
1. fruan - 7
2. crucify / smely socks - 5
3. bored_glitch - 4

Most influential player of 2022?
1. DEG / Gangsta Spongebob - 9
2. smely socks - 7

Most gimmicky player of 2022?
1. 5luke - 6
2. Justdelemon / Joker 1v1 / motogp / XanderUrBoi / "me" - 3

Luckiest player of 2022?
1. Jamez - 7
2. eblurb / frogfacts - 5
3. zioziotrip - 4

Most intimidating player of 2022?
1. XSTATIC COLD - 14
2. Close / smely socks / zioziotrip - 3

Best new player of 2022?
1. Justdelemon - 9
2. "idk" - 7
3. Nick - 6

Best ladder player of 2022?
1. smely socks - 13
2. XSTATIC COLD - 12
3. Justdelemon - 6

Best tournament player of 2022?
1. smely socks - 10
2. zioziotrip - 7
3. Close / Justdelemon - 5

Best overall player of 2022?
1. Close - 10
2. smely socks - 9
3. Justdelemon - 6

Nicest user of 2022?
1. smely socks - 7
2. DenisTheMenace / Murman - 4

Meanest user of 2022?
1. XSTATIC COLD - 9
2. HeyMan - 8
3. Murman - 6

Funniest user of 2022?
1. XSTATIC COLD / frogfacts / Joker 1v1 - 5
2. "nobody" - 4
3. "me" - 3

User most likely to play Pokemon in their 50s?
1. XSTATIC COLD - 14
2. Rosa - 12
3. DEG - 9

Best user to have in a team discord?
1. bored_glitch / DEG - 4
2. Elo Bandit / smely socks / Murman / STABLE - 3

User most likely to make a multiple page essay on a Pokemon for the Viability Rankings?
1. Murman - 6
2. STABLE / Lumii - 5
3. LRXC / Rosa - 4

User you'd most like to meet in real life?
1. DEG / smely socks / XSTATIC COLD / "nobody" - 3

User most likely to time out in a tournament game?
1. zo - 9
2. pqs / rumia - 4
Honorable mention: "t" - 1

[From Sanshokuinsumireko] Biggest weeb of 2022?
1. Sanshokuinsumireko - 23
2. "idk" - 4
3. Rosa - 3

Most memorable moment of 2022?
1. Trashuny being discovered as an alt of a banned user - 8
2. ADV LT drama - 7
3. 1v1 Premier League - 7

As eventful of a year as 2022 may have been, we still have a lot to look forward to with Scarlet & Violet 1v1, as well as the changes and extra releases that will be coming in 2023! Here's to another year of 1v1!​
 
Rosa said:
2022 1v1 Awards Results

Funniest user of 2022?
1. XSTATIC COLD / frogfacts / Joker 1v1 - 5
Click to expand...

Since I was awarded this title, I must tell a joke. I recommend XSTATIC COLD and frogfacts do the same :p

so the richest man in the world decides he wants to build a hotel

and he does so

he builds a hotel as large as New York City

it's a pretty good hotel

lots of celebrities show up, it's opening night, party's gettin' started

on opening night, a little purple man checks in to the hotel

that night, the hotel burns to the ground

the rich man is devastated but he won't let this ruin his plans

he decides to raise the stakes, and he builds a hotel as large as the state of Texas

it's great it's got like a pool bunch of great stuff

opening night, the same little purple man checks in

that night, the hotel burns to the ground

rich man, again, is devastated - but again, he decides to go bigger and better

he builds a hotel as large as the Americas

it's a sweet hotel

biggest opening night yet

little purple man checks in

it burns to the ground that very night

rich man is in too deep

he builds a hotel as large as the planet Earth

it's a nice hotel

little purple man checks in opening night

it burns to the ground

rich man builds a hotel as large as the milky way galaxy

it's sweet it's got like 2 pools

little purple man checks in that night

it burns to the ground

rich man is devastated more than ever before

he decides he'll give it one more shot

he builds a hotel as large as the known universe

this one's got not only 2 pools but a sauna as well

it's nice

opening night

little purple man checks in

and that night it burns to the ground

the rich man is broken

he's penniless

emotionally destroyed

wife left him

and he becomes a hermit

20 years pass

the rich man has finally picked up the shattered remains of his life

but he needs closure

one day he sees the little purple man sitting on a park bench

he approaches him and asks him

"little purple man, did you burn down my hotels?"

the little purple man says yes

Ha. Ha. - Rosa
 
Joker 1v1 said:


Since I was awarded this title, I must tell a joke. I recommend XSTATIC COLD and frogfacts do the same :p

so the richest man in the world decides he wants to build a hotel

and he does so

he builds a hotel as large as New York City

it's a pretty good hotel

lots of celebrities show up, it's opening night, party's gettin' started

on opening night, a little purple man checks in to the hotel

that night, the hotel burns to the ground

the rich man is devastated but he won't let this ruin his plans

he decides to raise the stakes, and he builds a hotel as large as the state of Texas

it's great it's got like a pool bunch of great stuff

opening night, the same little purple man checks in

that night, the hotel burns to the ground

rich man, again, is devastated - but again, he decides to go bigger and better

he builds a hotel as large as the Americas

it's a sweet hotel

biggest opening night yet

little purple man checks in

it burns to the ground that very night

rich man is in too deep

he builds a hotel as large as the planet Earth

it's a nice hotel

little purple man checks in opening night

it burns to the ground

rich man builds a hotel as large as the milky way galaxy

it's sweet it's got like 2 pools

little purple man checks in that night

it burns to the ground

rich man is devastated more than ever before

he decides he'll give it one more shot

he builds a hotel as large as the known universe

this one's got not only 2 pools but a sauna as well

it's nice

opening night

little purple man checks in

and that night it burns to the ground

the rich man is broken

he's penniless

emotionally destroyed

wife left him

and he becomes a hermit

20 years pass

the rich man has finally picked up the shattered remains of his life

but he needs closure

one day he sees the little purple man sitting on a park bench

he approaches him and asks him

"little purple man, did you burn down my hotels?"

the little purple man says yes

Ha. Ha. - Rosa
Click to expand...

It’s William Afton no way
 
ok so we gotta talk about gholdengo we are talking about this thing because its metagame defining counter is quickbanned like just
ok so bec it had only one viable counter it also has counters like appe and more like shit was controlled by chiyu and bec chi yu is quickbanned
gholdengo is..shit .....this is what everyone says right this thing has counters but those counters arent looked at shit some bombirdier sets are counters
appe,donphan,bombirdier,specs mane,proto booster spatk mane and if home comes im psure we get Zarude,gmolt btw gmolt cant be viable in sv lol
its best item custap is unobtainable but the problem is counters arent good hey the best counter is mane,appe,donphan and maybe dozo just bruh
ok so now currenet meta best mons :gholdengo: :annhilliappe: :flutter mane: :dondozo: all o these are counters to gholdengo but problem
thing has sets to beat its counters ik dozo is beat with bulk tbolt mane kasib,appe kasib,donphan is the honest counter and i dont want to include bombirdier cause it underused in 1v1 and underlooked of its capability but thats a story for another time gholdengo is banworthy just like STABLE said thing is its like chi yu but has more coverage shit gets dgleeam and tbolt able to beat darks and corvik and btw meowscarada cat is scared with colbur and yes donphan beats every set idwant to say shucca cause its 0% used some ppl use kasib and colbur but no shuca goat kills the metagame and the new stored power user espathra should edit this post and btw i think its ok to include gholdengo on the onthe radar thread were talking about gholdengo just ban it please and yes since i already covered its counters so even if counters came with home this thing is good as gold
this is also a good valliant counter if you speak about it btw chiyu quick ban isnt implemented ye im tired seeing that shit on ladder let ape stay
and LET GHOLDEN(GO) AWAY so yes ban it
 
After the ban of 吃鱼 I think we could see a rise in usage of 蜗神. It's bulky, can outstall things like 停鹿, and can run a very bulky wp set that beats big threats like gholdengo, iron bundle, meowscarada, and even skeledirge(unless they're really fast). Leech seed and a special(for now) type combination give 蜗神 a unique metagame matchup which separates from other more popular stall pokemon.

Edit: happy Chinese New Year
 
Last edited:
There are two Pokemon I'd say that are on everyone's mind, Greninja and Gholdengo. Both of these are extremely prevalent threats that have insanely good qualities in their own way, Greninja is similar to the banned Cinderace where it can take on any type whilst running a variety of different sets with different moves and Gholdengo can be a fiercely powerful attacker or even a wall of sorts or can even manage both at the same time. Gholdengo is a Pokemon I have seen myself spamming on multiple teams, looking at any of my replays you can probably see it on 9/10 of my squads and for good reason to as building around it practically guarantees an amazing team. Similarly to the suspected Annihilape, Gholdengo is intimidating on preview and can be running a variety of sets to take on many threats. Unlike Annihilape however, it has more practical use in battle and ends up seeming impossible to beat. When looking at Greninja and its movepool it immediately can be seen as metagame defining, it has a powerful Petaya berry + Torrent boosted Hydro Cannon set, high power with move coverage in a Choice Specs set and a few more niche options when running Choice Band and Choice Scarf. Though I wouldn't exactly call the last two good, it can check a lot of Pokemon which usually try to beat it such as Flutter Mane losing to Choice Scarf Gunk Shot. Both of these should definitely be considered for a suspect test and even a quickban for Greninja.
 
Adam3560 said:
After the ban of 吃鱼 I think we could see a rise in usage of 蜗神. It's bulky, can outstall things like 停鹿, and can run a very bulky wp set that beats big threats like gholdengo, iron bundle, meowscarada, and even skeledirge(unless they're really fast). Leech seed and a special(for now) type combination give 蜗神 a unique metagame matchup which separates from other more popular stall pokemon.

Edit: happy Chinese New Year
Click to expand...

lol
 
I wanna talk about Encore Disable on this meta, this article gonna talk about my opnion on this strategy.

1.Iron Valiant : It has 368 of speed and can easily out speed an ton of mons so we have to brought specified counters to it, cause of if having 368×1,50 of speed (502) wich means an lot of times we have to brought that counter it like, Adamant Scarf-Pao(maybe getting banned), Speed Scarf PRough Meowscarada, Booster Speed Mane, SpeBoost Sub Espathra, Gholdengo and Mental Herb Taunt.
-Random Voice in my head : so still has an counter right?
-No until i say the next problem.

2.Sableye : This one can be countered easily but... (there's always an but) it has 2 sets and and both are good to counter who couter Valiant, counter almost half lets get to the next part, we have the Trick Disable Recover Fling Prankster, a Protect Encore Disable Recover, wich are good counters to the half of pokémon that counters Valiant, and still there's another thing.

3.Specified Counters : Now there's another thing that they' brough pokémon that counter who counter this strategy and counter who use this strategy, meaning that they use the same mons if they see each others only won who won the SpeedTie, making the game meaningless.

Resumed : You always are going to have something that beat this strategy making you to have to waste an slot for counter the "meta", and having -1 Pokémon is gonna be impactfull, and simples way to make these pokémon viable and not stupid stall is banning Disable, Encore is not the true problem Disable it make Choice Itens not viable, also makes your highest damage move not work (also if do not use your highest damagjng move encore will make you stuck into it), Encore can come in hand without begin broken.

So respectfully say that they should ban Disable, thanks for your time!
 
XzDANI3LzX said:
I wanna talk about Encore Disable on this meta, this article gonna talk about my opnion on this strategy.

1.Iron Valiant : It has 368 of speed and can easily out speed an ton of mons so we have to brought specified counters to it, cause of if having 368×1,50 of speed (502) wich means an lot of times we have to brought that counter it like, Adamant Scarf-Pao(maybe getting banned), Speed Scarf PRough Meowscarada, Booster Speed Mane, SpeBoost Sub Espathra, Gholdengo and Mental Herb Taunt.
-Random Voice in my head : so still has an counter right?
-No until i say the next problem.

2.Sableye : This one can be countered easily but... (there's always an but) it has 2 sets and and both are good to counter who couter Valiant, counter almost half lets get to the next part, we have the Trick Disable Recover Fling Prankster, a Protect Encore Disable Recover, wich are good counters to the half of pokémon that counters Valiant, and still there's another thing.

3.Specified Counters : Now there's another thing that they' brough pokémon that counter who counter this strategy and counter who use this strategy, meaning that they use the same mons if they see each others only won who won the SpeedTie, making the game meaningless.

Resumed : You always are going to have something that beat this strategy making you to have to waste an slot for counter the "meta", and having -1 Pokémon is gonna be impactfull, and simples way to make these pokémon viable and not stupid stall is banning Disable, Encore is not the true problem Disable it make Choice Itens not viable, also makes your highest damage move not work (also if do not use your highest damagjng move encore will make you stuck into it), Encore can come in hand without begin broken.

So respectfully say that they should ban Disable, thanks for your time!
Click to expand...

Iron Valiant has a lot more counters than you have listed here, it is a very prevalent Pokemon and very powerful in its own right. The way you've worded this entire post makes it seem like your main problem is Iron Valiant, which makes sense as it is a Pokemon that could definitely be suspected. Disable isn't overpowered as a move, but it becomes more powerful due to its abusers such as the ones you've listed here. You also give Iron Valiant a lot more credit than it really has, it is beatable without outspeeding it or using Mental Herb. Due to the fact of Iron Valiant being frail, a lot of Pokemon can have multiple moves to beat it such as: Azumarill, Charizard and Corviknight for example.

Again you aren't completely wrong, a post speaking about how strong Iron Valiant can be isn't farfetched but I'd say banning Disable would be the wrong way to go about this. Iron Valiant and Sableye are the only notable abusers of this move after all and previously Scream Tail, which was a better abuser of the strategy than Iron Valiant, was banned instead of the move.
 
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