Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

[RADU]

I don't get the convincing arguments part, if the arguments weren't good then the majority of the community wouldn't be siding with the suspect side. I don't think the community will rally behind a non suspect worthy Pokemon by providing bad arguments.

I believe the whole OTR>Council Voting system is flawed. As we've just witnessed both of these can be contradictory. There's no reason to have an OTR if the council is still going to vote against the community, might as well just have read that thread and vote. OTR is redundant and useless if it's not going to serve its true purpose which is to rally all voices in one thread. If that's not OTR objective then the whole system should change.

OTR was a tool for the council to gather more community input, and that it did. What I gathered from OTR was that there was no adequate justification for a suspect, so I acted accordingly by voting do not suspect.
I stated clearly and openly what I would've liked to see for me to vote for a suspect, as I was somewhat on the fence at the time, and that did not happen. OTR served its purpose in letting me know that either there was no solid argument for the pro-ban side to make, or that the feelings towards regidrago were not strong enough for that argument to come to fruition.

Frankly speaking, drago got suspected into a DNB, sentiments towards its ban were mixed in the OTR thread, and the council (representatives of the community) voted do not suspect. There is no such thing as an overwhelming push towards its ban

Also, as a member of the council I speak for myself, not for the whole council, so DEG as a member of the community please speak for yourself, not for the entire community. If this sentiment is as you say, then the community would have/will follow suit on its own.

DreamPrince is actually a two-time sv 1v1 reqs qualifier and suspect voter.

I do not like it when my council members arbitrarily decide that someone's comment is less worthy of consideration, and I think that this is a clear signal of how the council views the community.

yea I fucked up, I apologize DreamPrince I didn't mean it this way towards you, my main sentiment was directed towards the contents of the post which on top of being only 5 lines short contained misinformation such as corvi losing to drago and also the statement that drago doesnt have any hard counters besides fairies, which are just false. I did not mean to carry out my general dismissal of his post as a specific dismissal of him as a player/person. so again i apologize, i know he's a qualified contributor

 

[Frailty]

In 1v1 there is no objective measure of whether something is unhealthy or not, the closest thing you can get is lots of subjective opinions on whether it’s healthy or not.

The community found something unhealthy in the survey, the council voted do not suspect. Increase council size or give community a way to contribute beyond trying to influence council members through posts.

I feel like lots of council members use the cop-out excuse blaming people for not making posts as to why they voted a certain way. “If you want it gone, post about it etc etc”

From experience as an ex council member, I was never really influenced at all by other people’s posts, meta discussion or otr. I still used that excuse though!

Can we also stop treating scarlet violet 1v1 metagame discussion like an ace attorney court case. This is just making problems where everything is already fine (been there done that).

 

[Felucia]

I figure it's about time I write a post on the matter considering the way things have gone. I don't know exactly where to start so bear with me, but I'll be trying my best to clear up as much as I can; addressing concerns, clearing up misconceptions, and talking about how the process can be improved in the future.

First and foremost, I'm disappointed in the way this news was received. Some of our community members claim that this outcry was to be expected, and sure I also expected a portion of the community to be dissatisfied when the vote ended the way it did, but being dissatisfied does not justify resorting to personal attacks, passive-aggression, and sarcastic remarks. This doesn't just go for the above discussion, but also discourse in the discord server, 1v1 room, and in private circles. This includes people who argue pro-suspect and anti-suspect, between authority figures, council members, and regular users. I'm not just telling you this as a moderator, I'm telling you this as someone trying to be a decent person on the internet: If you want to feel listened to, give people a reason to want to listen, and the first step to that is treating them with some basic respect.

My role is somewhat special in the sense that I didn't get a vote myself and am not directly responsible for the outcome, but as council leader I feel responsible for managing the process and more importantly the community's expectations. A lot of what happened here wasn't just a result of council members voting the way they did, but also the result of me not giving everyone the stable process and clarity I could've. I'm sorry this situation didn't turn out according to your expectations, I could've done more to make things clear had I proceeded with more patience, structure, and caution.

With that said, I'm going to try to address as many of the complaints and misconceptions I've seen floating around as possible. First things first, I've seen a lot of concerns about the vote ending in a tie. There's heaps of precedent across both 1v1 and smogon for councils having an even amount of members (as a matter of fact Ubers and UU currently have 8 members each), and this hasn't led to problems for us in the past. There is no difference between "even number doesn't reach majority" and "uneven number doesn't reach majority" unless the community's expectations about the meaning of a tie are wrong. Let me make it clear: in the case of ties in votes, the winning side will always be the status quo unless a different tiebreaker is explicitly in place, which is not the case here.

Additionally, at least one person was confused about this ogerpon-hearthflame vote resulting in a suspect despite being a 50/50 ban vote. At first glance I can understand why this looks like an opposite outcome for an identical situation, but relevant context here is that this Oger-H vote was not a suspect vote. The suspect was already decided at this point and due to the timing potentially disrupting PL, the vote went between "ban and re-suspect" and "suspect immediately." In this case, just like for Regidrago, the option deviating from status quo (default is suspect) didn't get a greater than 50% support, and thus Oger-H got suspect tested and not quickbanned.

Next, I want to talk about the notion that this vote was treated by individual council members as "DNB vs Ban" and not "DNS vs Sus." The story being portrayed here is that it's impossible for half the council to decide not to want to suspect test Regidrago when it's so clearly supported in the rest of the community. I won't pretend I know exactly what the community wants in extensive detail, but I do know that a portion of the council was strongly weighing the fact that this is a resuspect. I've publicly said this as well: The case for banning drago despite a suspect already having been done just needs to be stronger than it was before. Although I personally probably would've voted to suspect drago, I am incredibly on the fence and don't blame anyone who believes the case was not strong enough.

Tangent

Putting this in a hide tag because it's arguing semantics and subjective interpretation of statistics and people's opinions, this is not constructive to the general discussion and I'd much rather focus on things we can actually verifiably change to work towards a better future, but I want to have it said

Council has a responsibility to the community, to the metagame, and to smogon's general tiering policy. This means that the community is just one factor in making decisions, and if you believe council should be a perfect reflection of the community's wishes then you're misunderstanding the role of the council. After all, that would make a council vote a formality, and we might as well decide everything by public poll. So let's look at the community's actual wishes in the most valid and objective way possible (please read the sarcasm): A room poll. Thankfully a lovely staff member made such a roompoll after the conclusion of OTR, so we have such data to use for our little thought experiment. The result of this poll was that 65% of the voters want to suspect Regidrago, and 35% did not (spread across a few options because Iron Crown was also factored). Considering council is weighing more than just the direct wishes of the community, I honestly don't think a 15% deviation from the expected voting outcome is all that surprising or excessive.

I know these numbers are useless because roompolls don't paint a good picture due to the excessively low barrier of entry to voting, but the point here is that the wishes of the community are easy to misrepresent. Hell, the last drago suspect was supposedly "what the community wanted" and yet it didn't end up banned because there wasn't enough community support.

I also want to address something DEG said:

Additionally, I was informed that a council member stated in the Discord that they do not care about the community's opinion. Such a comment is concerning, as it undermines the principles of collaboration and accountability that should guide the council’s actions. It is essential for council members to listen to and engage with the community, as their feedback is critical in making informed decisions that reflect the broader player base.

If you have records of this happening, please reach out to me about it so I can take action. Pretty much all of 1v1 council has been very vocal during the whole process of this OTR, answering public questions, posting on OTR and in discord's metagame discussion channel, addressing points made by the community and attempting to argue both in favour of and against a regidrago suspect test in good faith. If there is a council member undermining these efforts by wholeheartedly making statements like this, they should be held accountable. That being said, as it stands this statement only serves to draw conclusions and set an inflammatory tone to vilify the council as a whole because of the supposed words of an individual. I've said this earlier in my post and it was far from directed just at you or this comment, but I want everyone to please mind your tone. If you or anyone else has pressing concerns about the integrity of council especially if you have evidence to back it up reach out to someone who can do something about it, I urge everyone to do this, I am more than happy to personally address your concerns if you approach me in good faith.

Lastly, I want to reassure everyone who thinks the votes are not public. We are not hiding who voted what, and have in fact mentioned it on discord more than once. I didn't think it was important to include something like that in the OTR closing post, but since some people want it in writing on smogon here it is:

• bern: Do Not Suspect
• delemon: Do Not Suspect
• lost heros: Suspect
• Murm: Suspect
• neomon: Suspect
• RADU: Do Not Suspect

I'll be keeping an eye out, considering the clamours for publishing these votes have come from the same people who are passionately unhappy with the voting outcome, I will not have any tolerance for directing dissatisfaction at individual council members who didn't vote according to your wishes. If you wish to talk to them, feel free to reach out and I'm sure they'll be happy to explain to you why they voted the way they did, but if you do so with hostility I will protect them as a moderator.

What's next?
I would genuinely like to hear if there are notable improvements to be made to the entire process that we just went through. I've seen a lot of conflicting feedback that is incredibly hard to work with, ranging from "surveys are useless" to "we should've done a survey." Please engage in serious discussion about this so we can make 1v1 the best it can be. I heard a few suggestions about tiebreakers, and am willing to look into them provided they fit into tiering policy or precedent elsewhere. Even if we make a change to tiebreakers though, we won't be retroactively applying them to this vote.

As we start talking about how to move forward, it's important to mention the upcoming post-worldcup survey that will most likely be released next week. We (council) would love your input on how to decide which Pokémon should be mentioned on the survey, ideally not cluttering the metagame discussion thread with it but instead reaching out in the 1v1 room or on discord. I would personally like to aim to keep the pool of Pokémon relatively small, to get focused input from the community on a set of key issues, but I know opinions on this differ so do reach out.

Also, the aforementioned roompoll (if you read my tangent) showed almost 50% support for an Iron Crown suspect test, so despite it being overshadowed by Regidrago on OTR, now might not be a bad time to start giving your thoughts about it in an organised way.

Felu out o/

 

[Kala chasmah]

All Threads:- Qualifiers:- https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-regidrago-suspect-voter-id-thread.3744258/
Votes:- https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-1v1-suspect-7-regidrago.3745144/

Additionally, at least one person was confused about this ogerpon-hearthflame vote resulting in a suspect despite being a 50/50 ban vote. At first glance I can understand why this looks like an opposite outcome for an identical situation, but relevant context here is that this Oger-H vote was not a suspect vote. The suspect was already decided at this point and due to the timing potentially disrupting PL, the vote went between "ban and re-suspect" and "suspect immediately." In this case, just like for Regidrago, the option deviating from status quo (default is suspect) didn't get a greater than 50% support, and thus Oger-H got suspect tested and not quickbanned.

First of all I believe comparing Regidrago's suspect test from gouging fire (not mentioned in ur post), Archaludon (not mentioned) or oger-h (mentioned) that it didn't got support above 50%. Why?

1.) 12 Users only able to qualify to come to a final decision whether regidrago feels bannable or not compared to Gouging and Oger-h suspect tests which felt very rough.
2.) The Voting ended with 7 BAN and 5 DO NOT BAN in which after 2 really very imp. suspect test done in past, thoughts changing for regidrago getting banned is possible. King Griffin is one of them and their reason was same as others stating ''Very versatile stats with a hell lot of hp + atk nd spa which makes it a great mixed atacker can take hits nd blocks a whole lot of meta to build around with''. I still don't know what longrat think but it seems like he don't like the presence of regidrago too ig? Not sure.

The case for banning drago despite a suspect already having been done just needs to be stronger than it was before. Although I personally probably would've voted to suspect drago, I am incredibly on the fence and don't blame anyone who believes the case was not strong enough.

Regidrago's suspect test was probably the worst i have seen until now compared to the other 3 lol.

Lastly, I want to reassure everyone who thinks the votes are not public. We are not hiding who voted what, and have in fact mentioned it on discord more than once. I didn't think it was important to include something like that in the OTR closing post, but since some people want it in writing on smogon here it is:

• bern: Do Not Suspect
• delemon: Do Not Suspect
• lost heros: Suspect
• Murm: Suspect
• neomon: Suspect
• RADU: Do Not Suspect

Since starting of the discussion for regidrago 1 thing was always mentioned, it can be used in any team and forces to use their real counters and we can't enhance our skills by using any other mon. Before radu say that ''What do u wanna use, a grass type?'', I would like to mention that Bo Bobson (If I am not wrong) said in his post that we just don't want to be creative! Nah, hell na.... Firstly, I feel like using some sort of a mon that runs av and have great def and have the capability to defeat regidrago feels very hard due to their bulk and power. Secondly, If we achieve to do the first, the problem begins is losing to other mons and it gets to hard to cover rest of the mons we usually have in our threalist due to 1st mon being less able to face others. Well I have tried it so I thought it made a sense to write it here.

Now with the context to the above paragraph, In this complete list of councils who voted, all of them had 0 uniqueness in their builds [Murm hasn't played any tour after PL so won't be targeting them and he was actually building really good compared to me and lumii (she was busy IRL)] . I don't think I need to spam their replays here and analyse it. At the end of the day, we stick to the same pattern of building because of being scared of regidrago and keep neglecting mons which can be used if regidrago has no presence in this tier.

For Radu:- Don't take this personal but in most of ur post u made until now whether its OTR or here, what I could see was you reading out the Policies which made 0 sense and didn't prove your point. You kept asking the community to provide a strong evidence (thats what felucia did rn) makes 0 sense too lol after pointing like every single thing i believe.

Rest of the Council:- (Specifically Bern, Delemon and Radu) If u have any idea to convince us that suspecting/banning Regidrago is of no use without pasting your old thread and telling us to read it would be appreciable.

After this post if this discussion continues I would ask you all 1 more thing that stop picking a line of any1 and start stretching that look we are being told that corvi loses to specs drago or some other stuff... Its better to correct them and move on! (Thanks for the Apology)

If the arguments were made using faulty evidence then yes the arguments can be unconvincing even if a lot of people believe it. Just because someone said corv loses to specs drago does not mean it is true and if that’s one of the reasons a person uses as justification for a position then of course it’s possible a community can rally behind a non suspect worthy mon by providing bad arguments.

Just like that^

What's next?
I would genuinely like to hear if there are notable improvements to be made to the entire process that we just went through. I've seen a lot of conflicting feedback that is incredibly hard to work with, ranging from "surveys are useless" to "we should've done a survey." Please engage in serious discussion about this so we can make 1v1 the best it can be. I heard a few suggestions about tiebreakers, and am willing to look into them provided they fit into tiering policy or precedent elsewhere. Even if we make a change to tiebreakers though, we won't be retroactively applying them to this vote.

Well thats understandable someone saying ''surveys are useless'' after pointing out 1000 times but ye thats not right. IDK but it seems funny to ME how everyone are stuck in 1 loop of building a team and we think 1v1 will become the best it can be.

Also, the aforementioned roompoll (if you read my tangent) showed almost 50% support for an Iron Crown suspect test, so despite it being overshadowed by Regidrago on OTR, now might not be a bad time to start giving your thoughts about it in an organised way.

Felu out o/

Roompoll's are usually terrible imo. People usually enter different room's and vote and then leave with 0 knowledge what and why they should vote. Its exactly like my teacher's asking complete class to vote in 4 options and more than half of the students love to click option 1.

Also, as a member of the council I speak for myself, not for the whole council, so DEG as a member of the community please speak for yourself, not for the entire community. If this sentiment is as you say, then the community would have/will follow suit on its own.

Tbh I am on deg side and idr mind whatever he wrote in every single post above. I think reactions system in smogon is great to express your feelings how much do u like what a person wrote and I think most of the people are agreeing what he's saying who wants to get regidrago banned. Maybe, yeah maybe you are trying to say indirectly that he's trying to put words in our mouth but idt that's true.

Well, I am sorry if I was rude anywhere in my post but it was necessary to point you out what seems logical and what's not to me. I hope my post not to be deleted and be open and give a great response.

Regards,
Kala Chasmah

 

[LongRat]

I still don't know what longrat think but it seems like he don't like the presence of regidrago too ig? Not sure.

Get that mf dragon out !!!!

 

[BigChuchu]

Kala chasmah I appreciate the effort in your post but I think we should move on, really, and that's coming from a hardcore Drago hater. Felucia's post seemed like the best conclusion to this whole debate.

Best we can do as a "protest" is manually add Drago in the "any other mon" field of the next OTR survey, because it won't be among the pre-suggested mons anymore, the council made that clear. :D

In the meantime, merry Christmas and happy new year to all!

 

[recti]

If Regidrago is such a problem then just use a fairy type. Ik ik, easier said than done but like... THIS IS 1v1. The whole point is to bamboozle the meta with the unforseen tech (see this post right here for the weird basculegion). If anything, I can come in to save the day and fry regidrago for yalls

The argument is that it's unhealthy because it restricts creativity by forcing fairies and steels on to teams, not that it's broken.

 

[Kanha Greninja]

The argument is that it's unhealthy because it restricts creativity by forcing fairies and steels on to teams, not that it's broken.

Isn’t that the exact argument in gen 8 aswell? Regidrago should never be banned imo

 

[delemon]

In umpl

I think if we ban hoopa crown and drago the metagame will be more stable because then people wont be forced into running hoopa crown and drago on every team

In umpl only a little over a third of the teams had one of regidrago, iron crown, hoopa unbound and hoopa bound
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/umpl-iv-usage-statistics.3753480/

then there will be more metagame diversity allowing for less common birds like squawkabilly, cramorant, and regigigas

Regigigas is not a bird.

 

[DEG]

weird weird and weird.

This survey is like a slap on the face of the community truthfully. Can we please get full transparency on why was the most popular "unhealthy" Pokemon skipped? I don't believe it was done as a form of spite or elitism but this does seem like a way for council to hide behind their finger and not giving the community the data it wants to "prove" that the majority of the community thinks Regidrago is THE unhealthy element. Come on, we had better tiering times, why did we send our tiering system to years ago, this is disastrous. Give US the elements to show you that we think Regidrago is THE unhealthy element, why was it removed, why, why.

Also, as a member of the council I speak for myself, not for the whole council, so @DEG as a member of the community please speak for yourself, not for the entire community. If this sentiment is as you say, then the community would have/will follow suit on its own.

I do speak for the majority of the community, while it is not the best way, the reaction score showcase that. Not everyone likes to argue over and over again when they realize their posts are being brushed over, but I'm not everyone. Plus a lot of people don't enjoy posting but I'm sure that's the majority sentiment, we need a Regidrago suspect.

I won't pretend I know exactly what the community wants in extensive detail, but I do know that a portion of the council was strongly weighing the fact that this is a resuspect. I've publicly said this as well: The case for banning drago despite a suspect already having been done just needs to be stronger than it was before. Although I personally probably would've voted to suspect drago, I am incredibly on the fence and don't blame anyone who believes the case was not strong enough.

Should have put it on the survey so you're sure what the community wants, and not add Pokemon people barely talked about. As of now, the council decision-making is just them talking and deciding in an empty room, doing what they think is best, while closing their ears. If that's not the case then that's what its showing.

If you have records of this happening, please reach out to me about it so I can take action. Pretty much all of 1v1 council has been very vocal during the whole process of this OTR, answering public questions, posting on OTR and in discord's metagame discussion channel, addressing points made by the community and attempting to argue both in favour of and against a regidrago suspect test in good faith. If there is a council member undermining these efforts by wholeheartedly making statements like this, they should be held accountable. That being said, as it stands this statement only serves to draw conclusions and set an inflammatory tone to vilify the council as a whole because of the supposed words of an individual. I've said this earlier in my post and it was far from directed just at you or this comment, but I want everyone to please mind your tone. If you or anyone else has pressing concerns about the integrity of council especially if you have evidence to back it up reach out to someone who can do something about it, I urge everyone to do this, I am more than happy to personally address your concerns if you approach me in good faith.

I was given the logs / were discussed with me by people but apparently it was a joke as cleared above.

I would genuinely like to hear if there are notable improvements to be made to the entire process that we just went through. I've seen a lot of conflicting feedback that is incredibly hard to work with, ranging from "surveys are useless" to "we should've done a survey." Please engage in serious discussion about this so we can make 1v1 the best it can be. I heard a few suggestions about tiebreakers, and am willing to look into them provided they fit into tiering policy or precedent elsewhere. Even if we make a change to tiebreakers though, we won't be retroactively applying them to this vote.

Be my guest, will post about that later cause it needs more brainstorming and at a time that is less chaotic so we can focus on that.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Hey hey hey everyone. Happy New Year to all! 2025 is going to bring forth good fortune, I can feel it.

To start off the new year, I GOT TOP 500 ON LADDER FOR THE FIRST TIME WHOOOOOOOOOO!!! I feel so happy that I can come back to 1v1 and make waves so soon. Granted I had a biiit of a push with the Incineroar team a while back, but hey--I made it. And besides, even if I started at 0 Elo, I bet my team would've made the distance within a short amount of time

This is the team that I used to make the 230-ish Elo distance. It's currently 14-2, and makes use of my newfound cook in Granbull that I continuously glaze until people see its potential.

TuFF the Granbull

TuFF (Granbull) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 204 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Play Rough
- Encore
- Bulk Up
- Endure

This is the focal point of my team. I was looking at the meta and realized something: The Dragons are incredibly oppressive, in part due to the fact that they cover most of each others flaws. The main one you need to beat is the oppressive , however, that's quite easy nowadays given its severe vulnerability to any Fairy type with a semblance of bulk. So then we move on to , , ... suddenly, that Drago check isn't looking too good against the other dragons. Enter , the slow bulldog that could.

effectively beats nearly every single popular Dragon, Fighting, and Dark type in the current metagame, ASSUMING that you aren't simply hard countered against the set you're facing. With Bulk Up and Encore, this Custap Berry variant of can effectively solo what it needs to beat, made better by Bulk Up's +1 Attack and Defense. Encore furthermore can put the opponent in a setup move that they don't want to be in (thank the Lord for Bulk Up boosting that defense). While Play Rough as the only attack might seem like a joke, keep in mind that is only supposed to beat the Dragons, and some other stuff along the way. And this is the best set to do that. The bulk investment lives Choice Band/Specs as well as Hydro Steam > Aqua Jet. This set 1v1s the following from my personal experience, varying in no order from always to needing a few reads:

This guy is TuFF as hell, man.

Steamy boi the Volcanion

Steamy boi (Volcanion) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 112 HP / 88 Def / 128 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Overheat
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Much like the epic gen 8 team I made (Gorsola + AV Zeraora + Garmanitan), I needed to fill in the blanks. was so incredibly specific in what it beat, much like , so I needed to cover its main weakness: Steels.

However, a little story about this guy: I initially had and instead of and . The reason being, I wanted to beat Encore + Disable as well as , with being the fix-it glue of sorts. This was, a very VERY bad first team, but... it was the initial draft, so you can't really blame the me 9 days ago for being naive compared to the me now.

This aims to delete all Steel types in its path, as well as beat , , and like... over half the meta in general. The bulk allows it to live 2 Power Whip's from standard . 180 Speed to barely creep 32 Speed that are so common nowadays. The rest of the stats were put into a modest 128 Special Attack that can just about OHKO everything. THIS guy, is really good.

Donfan the Great Tusk

Donfan (Great Tusk) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 116 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Head Smash

So as the last slot, I realized that needed to beat Ground types, but couldn't beat most of them. This is where comes into play.

44 Speed for 32 speed , outbulks a hurricane, then the rest of the stats are put into Attack, with the remainder in Defense. Head Smash is a BALLSY move, able to annihilate the likes of and . Headlong Rush, Close Combat, and Ice Spinner are simple coverage options to use against meta. Not really much to say here. Head Smash is goated for a move with like no accuracy.

These are the winning replays I saved along the way, with a few not being ladder matches. The later matches are earlier in my journey, if you're confused on the ELO Rankings shown in the matches.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2273212121
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2272296066-k28jp521v4nx59gb58jbqvt090wwbjrpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2272295359-8eg7v5n6ukndfdxrqtbty135rus76hzpw?p2 (pre Great Tusk)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2271162633-um6xintt8054h2af4zqqv50jckt3hcppw (pre Volcanion/Great Tusk)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2273210965
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2272385987
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2272380147-jlnaq5iq1rkiiwy6tsl4jjad9e6kq0zpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2272377159-uvn6caz7i932cdn2cazzb9fk3z3yhxypw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2273214116

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2272361051
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2272379245-3mwo3l70vrbbid083qkq9fbfbaqiudipw

CLOSE OUT

SHOUT OUT :speaking_head:

Huge shoutouts to the majority of the 1v1 community, mainly happysh, Iron Crusher, UwU1v1, Elo Bandit, and DripLegend. Y'all all helped me during the teambuilding process of this heat, giving me suggestions and helping me during the beginning stages of this team. If I missed anyone else who helped me, I'm sorry, but your work will be remembered in honor of this post.

This is the pokepaste of the team, for those that skipped through everything else: https://pokepast.es/036239bbe70779c6
And thank you for your time, my friends. In the meantime, I'll be making more Granbull sets for the upcoming Granbull addition to the VR. Hope you guys try out the team. See ya!

 

[Patricick]

Hey yall, none of yall probably remember me cause I was last active here like 3 years ago at this point, but I adored gen 7 1v1 and was an active member in the community during that generation for quite a while. I, much like Christ, have returned from a place that people thought you couldn't return from (employment) to this worldly, sinful world (Smogon forums)

You may be wondering, "who is this moron and what is he talking about", which, ouch, rude, but there is actually a reason I'm making this post. I'd like to get into this current gen of 1v1, but the sample team I tried literally had a banned pokemon on it so something tells me they aren't exactly up to date. Basically, I'm making this post to ask for some good starter teams to try out that aren't too specialized but provide a good matchup spread so I can get familiar with the metagame. I really hope I fall in love with this gen of 1v1 like I did gen 7, but I just don't know where to start right now.


P.S. It's good to see nothing and none of us are changed in the slightest. We're all still getting into heated debates over fictional characters in a children's game, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Btw, ban Draco (an opinion that was decided by a literal coin flip. Heads won.)

 

[Mentality]

Hey yall, none of yall probably remember me cause I was last active here like 3 years ago at this point, but I adored gen 7 1v1 and was an active member in the community during that generation for quite a while. I, much like Christ, have returned from a place that people thought you couldn't return from (employment) to this worldly, sinful world (Smogon forums)

You may be wondering, "who is this moron and what is he talking about", which, ouch, rude, but there is actually a reason I'm making this post. I'd like to get into this current gen of 1v1, but the sample team I tried literally had a banned pokemon on it so something tells me they aren't exactly up to date. Basically, I'm making this post to ask for some good starter teams to try out that aren't too specialized but provide a good matchup spread so I can get familiar with the metagame. I really hope I fall in love with this gen of 1v1 like I did gen 7, but I just don't know where to start right now.


P.S. It's good to see nothing and none of us are changed in the slightest. We're all still getting into heated debates over fictional characters in a children's game, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Btw, ban Draco (an opinion that was decided by a literal coin flip. Heads won.)

Here are the current samples
https://pokepast.es/ece1ef02d96927ff
https://pokepast.es/c5b40322eed418de
https://pokepast.es/406b0ea15f75a2f6
https://pokepast.es/9807bec08ecbcfee

 

[DEG]

I would genuinely like to hear if there are notable improvements to be made to the entire process that we just went through.

Yes.

I would like to address some ongoing concerns regarding the disconnect between the council and the community, particularly in light of recent issues such as the Regidrago complaints being ignored and the ORAS ruling, which goes against survey results. It is clear that there is a significant misalignment between the council's decisions and the feedback provided by the community, and this stems from an ineffective and disorganized process that fails to yield meaningful results.

Key questions arise in this context: What role do OTRs play? What purpose do surveys serve? How should metagame discussions be conducted, and where do they lead? At present, these community-oriented initiatives appear largely ineffective and, frankly, discouraging. When the community voices its concerns and those concerns are ignored—twice—it raises questions about the underlying causes. Is it a lack of understanding on the part of the council regarding their role, a disconnect in communication tools, or something else entirely?

I believe the concept of surveys and OTRs has been misunderstood within the 1v1 metagame. Unlike OU, where an active metagame discussion thread exists, surveys and OTRs are meant to gather community sentiment when no other discussions are taking place. They should serve as a tiebreaker when there is significant dispute. However, the current application of these tools seems to have caused more confusion than clarity.

Moving forward, I propose that the metagame discussion threads be revived as the central place for community discourse regarding problematic Pokémon. If the community is not actively posting, council members should take the initiative to encourage participation. In turn, the council's role should be to lead discussions and listen to the community, rather than dismissing their concerns outright, as happened with the Regidrago situation. The council must recognize that their purpose is to facilitate community-driven decisions, not to override them, as this erodes trust and participation.

Furthermore, surveys should not be the primary tool for gauging community opinion. They should only be used as a supplementary measure in situations where there is a clear need for a tiebreaker or when the council is comfortable enough to initiate a suspect test based on community input. Surveys should not be conducted if there is no intention of respecting the outcome, as this only undermines their validity and discourages further engagement.

Lastly, I believe the OTR should be retired in favor of revitalizing the metagame discussion threads. There is no need to have multiple threads serving the same purpose, especially when one is not as active as it could be. A single, well-managed discussion thread will ensure better organization and more meaningful engagement in the long term.

I trust that the council will consider these points carefully and take steps to restore the sense of collaboration and trust that is vital for the health of the 1v1 metagame.

tldr:
Discuss in metagame discussion > if one option > suspect (should have been the Drago case)
Discuss in metagame discussion > more than one option AND ready for tiering action > survey > if favorable results suspect

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Moving forward, I propose that the metagame discussion threads be revived as the central place for community discourse regarding problematic Pokémon. If the community is not actively posting, council members should take the initiative to encourage participation. In turn, the council's role should be to lead discussions and listen to the community, rather than dismissing their concerns outright, as happened with the Regidrago situation. The council must recognize that their purpose is to facilitate community-driven decisions, not to override them, as this erodes trust and participation.

Furthermore, surveys should not be the primary tool for gauging community opinion. They should only be used as a supplementary measure in situations where there is a clear need for a tiebreaker or when the council is comfortable enough to initiate a suspect test based on community input. Surveys should not be conducted if there is no intention of respecting the outcome, as this only undermines their validity and discourages further engagement.

Lastly, I believe the OTR should be retired in favor of revitalizing the metagame discussion threads. There is no need to have multiple threads serving the same purpose, especially when one is not as active as it could be. A single, well-managed discussion thread will ensure better organization and more meaningful engagement in the long term.

I trust that the council will consider these points carefully and take steps to restore the sense of collaboration and trust that is vital for the health of the 1v1 metagame.

I agree. On average, this discussion thread (which btw, is titled 1v1 Metagame Discussion and not specifically anything in regards to Gen 9) only gets maybe 4 total messages per month, which for a metagame discussion thread... is kinda sad. Currently this would be post #404, with the thread being opened as far back as SS 1v1 towards the end of the tiers life.
Another thing is that this metagame was transitioned to an Unofficial Metagame a few years back (or maybe months? idk i wasn't here for that). This only makes the issue of meta discussion a lot worse given that it's not even an official tier. It's not as popular as something like the Other Metas or Singles Tiers, so the only thing we as consumers and chatters can do is simply wait for someone to say something eventually. Even if it wasn't as popular before becoming a UM, many UMs--if not all of them--are not nearly as common as even some of the least popular official metas.

As for the survey concern:
The fact that the survey results had nothing in regards to Regidrago is kinda crazy to me. Yes, there are other mons that are perhaps more impactful and need to be addressed before Drago, but its controversy has stemmed as far back as DLC 1 with the Drago-Val-Firepon trio of "you cannot win"--maybe even further. This isn't to say Drago needs to be looked at--I fully trust the 1v1 tier leaders to go through the steps needed to address this metagame, but you can't deny the lack of action on it is definitely an eyebrow raiser. The recent survey however, was to look at Hoopa-Unbound and Pecharunt, as well as the ongoing suspect of Iron Crown. After this suspect, and maybe the banning of Iron Crown, then perhaps the SV 1v1 tier leaders will look at those 2 as well as Regidrago for future suspects. They also said that this wasn't the last time they'd look at it, and probably hinted at a future suspect test for it. Keep in mind however that Regidrago has been suspect tested before, and the result was to keep it in the tier. Hoopa-Unbound has been banned and unbanned, and is now an arising concern of it should stay banned. Pecharunt hasn't been suspect tested from my understanding, seeing as it was released in the DLC 2 and was partially overshadowed by things like Archaludon and Gouging Fire (who were both banned).

Let's hope for a better future in the coming months leading to November and the end of SV. There is 10 months and a few days for potential Drago action to be taken. If it is, then it will. If it isn't, then we'll just have to live with it. The same goes for Iron Crown if it stays in the tier, as well as Pecharunt and Hoopa-Unbound. I'll be posting more in this thread in regards to finding answers for these mons to try and make the situation seem more like an unfortunate moment than "Regidrago isn't getting suspected this tier is ass" and "Pecharunt is such an RNG fest that can't die I hate this thing"--or even "Hoopa-Unbound forces me to use U-Turn on everything man why is this thing here"

 

[Kala chasmah]

As for the survey concern:
The fact that the survey results had nothing in regards to Regidrago is kinda crazy to me. Yes, there are other mons that are perhaps more impactful and need to be addressed before Drago, but its controversy has stemmed as far back as DLC 1 with the Drago-Val-Firepon trio of "you cannot win"--maybe even further.

Ye that's where avalugg-hisui was born and I cteamed tgo and 1 more guy's ass in ladder.

The recent survey however, was to look at Hoopa-Unbound and Pecharunt, as well as the ongoing suspect of Iron Crown. After this suspect, and maybe the banning of Iron Crown, then perhaps the SV 1v1 tier leaders will look at those 2 as well as Regidrago for future suspects. They also said that this wasn't the last time they'd look at it, and probably hinted at a future suspect test for it. Keep in mind however that Regidrago has been suspect tested before, and the result was to keep it in the tier. Hoopa-Unbound has been banned and unbanned, and is now an arising concern of it should stay banned. Pecharunt hasn't been suspect tested from my understanding, seeing as it was released in the DLC 2 and was partially overshadowed by things like Archaludon and Gouging Fire (who were both banned).

Well for now and for future until there's no ban on any pokemon (except Regidrago) I feel like and won't make any problems having multiple checks without any issue. What hoopa runs is scarf/band/custap and all of these sets are countered by mons like landorus-t, valiant, Regidrago, Ursaluna, Hoodra, Haxorus, Ninetales-A and list goes on.....
Talking about pecharunt, Sets used are maranga/kee berry/clear amulet and choice band (murm op). It's just a bit annoying due to its ability poison puppeteer but it can be dealt just by using steel ground dark etc. types or leech seeders.

From my side these 2 pokemon's are not much of a problem in teambuilding and not even close/worth of ban.
There's nothing much left to say about this mon as well.... big chuchu, deg and crow crumbs have already explained it in https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ironic-iron-crown-suspect.3758337/

Till the end of SV these 3 mons will remain chill dudes creating no problem imo

 

[glitched]

sure u could run av and risk losing to thinks like ursa bloodmoon while still not beating strong fightings like speed tusk/ the shifus and lose to iron moth
sure u could run snarl and risk losing to any bulky phys attacker or any fast physical attacker
sure u could run wisp and lose to bulky spa
sure u can run scarf/specs but every attacker can run scarf/band or specs its not game breaking
some of these mons havent been tested in 2 years and the meta has changed alot since then with many new mons.
for reference nalei, smely, and rosa (yikes) were on council when this thing was banned
this is like if an ominipotent figure had to build a 1v1 team out of species on earth and looked at humans 200k years ago and decided they were worthless and never used them again even as we evolved and gained new technologies (idk if this analogy makes sense ngl but I thought it was clever)
and you didnt even give a reason why crown cant run specs when mons like sylveon/landorus/greninja run boosting items w worse spa

S Rank
Primarina
this looks like an easy matchup for the primarina to win, HOWEVER
1. you first have to run enough spdef to live modest specs beam
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Hyper Beam vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 324-382 (96.1 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
2. not only this, u have to run enough SpA to KO light screen WP chi yu, although that also loses to Encore Turn 1.
Chi-Yu @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Beads of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 112 SpA / 112 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Hyper Beam
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse
mod lo prim after a light screen, jolly scarf gross eq, speed for volcanion / gross, rest in spa
3. However, if you DO use Encore turn 1, u have to live 2 modest specs psychics
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Psychic vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 195-230 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4. Your Hydro Cannon can just miss(?)
Chi-Yu @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Beads of Ruin
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 116 SpA / 112 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Hyper Beam
saves 4 evs, doesnt beat earth power volcanion



S- Rank
Iron Crown
Chi-Yu @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 56 SpA / 172 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Hyper Beam
mod spa booster crown focus blast, def for jolly scarf gross eq, speed for ada gross and also some volcanion



A+ Rank
Corviknight
lol

Hoopa-Unbound
av hoopa wins vs all but idt it beats wp wisp. rest explode to variants of bulky specs etc



Iron Valiant
run chople + 2 fire moves to beat all val i think u lose to subreversal tho unfort

Metagross
good luck



Pecharunt
good luck



Regidrago
idt u beat av or scarf ever but the other sets get giga owned by specs beam


Ursaluna
20% flinch chance from dark pulse good luck
theres also this
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 152 HP / 164 SpD Ursaluna: 475-561 (108.2 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
so i think u need le av ursaluna

A Rank
Goodra-Hisui
some av set prolly wins vs the fish

Landorus-Therian
av bulldoze / rock tomb + eq landot is prolly the most consistent mon vs chi yu, however u have to bulk this
+1 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 244 HP / 72 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-Therian: 352-415 (92.6 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (93.8% chance to OHKO after burn damage)

+ setguess scarf since bulldoze doesnt actually ko 0 invest chi yu

+ u are getting flinched by dark pulse

Meowscarada
scarf chi yu


Ogerpon-Wellspring

Chi-Yu @ Passho Berry
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 212 HP / 168 SpA / 112 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Snarl
- Flame Charge
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse

ada oger wellspring cudgel, -1 steam eruption from mod volcanion into same thing at -2 so u can snarl snarl dark pulse, darkpulse twice vs specs. flame charge for oger. scarf volcanion wins.
- Oh but oger can run superpower! no it cant u still have to setguess Chi-Yu's item which is NOT REVEALED ON PREVIEW UNLIKE IRON CROWN



Raging Bolt
Chi-Yu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 8 SpA / 220 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ruination
- Dark Pulse
- Overheat
bulk tbolt tbolt clap from mod booster raging bolt, def for scarf gross, speed for ada gross, rest in spa. can remove speed if want. vs raging bolt ruination ruination dark pulse. last move can be physical eg flare blitz for like sylveon



Urshifu
Chi-Yu @ Chople Berry
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 28 HP / 248 Def / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse

this is overkill but u outspeed non scarf, click wisp > plot > overheat, bulks 2 ada ccs into sucker after wisp best odds (around 5%)



Volcanion
volcanion first has to live a modspecs beam if they r not scarf to even TRY to beat chi yu:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Hyper Beam vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Volcanion: 395-465 (108.8 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
for more detailed explanation read the ogerpon wellspring point. u also need to beat WP chi yu, which clicks light screen and OHKOS u if u dont OHKO them.


Volcarona
u are speed tie vs timid specs if u are max speed if not modest owns u


too lazy to do rest, important mons that beat chi yu are some wake, av shifurapid

 

[True Psycho]

Ye that's where avalugg-hisui was born and I cteamed tgo and 1 more guy's ass in ladder.


Well for now and for future until there's no ban on any pokemon (except Regidrago) I feel like and won't make any problems having multiple checks without any issue. What hoopa runs is scarf/band/custap and all of these sets are countered by mons like landorus-t, valiant, Regidrago, Ursaluna, Hoodra, Haxorus, Ninetales-A and list goes on.....
Talking about pecharunt, Sets used are maranga/kee berry/clear amulet and choice band (murm op). It's just a bit annoying due to its ability poison puppeteer but it can be dealt just by using steel ground dark etc. types or leech seeders.

From my side these 2 pokemon's are not much of a problem in teambuilding and not even close/worth of ban.
There's nothing much left to say about this mon as well.... big chuchu, deg and crow crumbs have already explained it in https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ironic-iron-crown-suspect.3758337/

Till the end of SV these 3 mons will remain chill dudes creating no problem imo

nuh uh not da lando!
136 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 308-364 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
-1 20 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Rock Tomb vs. 8 HP / 196 Def Landorus-Therian: 39-47 (12.1 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
-1 20 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Ice Punch vs. 8 HP / 196 Def Landorus-Therian: 200-236 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hoopa-Unbound @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Atk / 236 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Psychic
- Rock Tomb

just for nerds who are like "umm actually you didnt use 252 atk!", stop talking nerds, here is 252
252 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 328-388 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
-1 4 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Rock Tomb vs. 8 HP / 196 Def Landorus-Therian: 39-47 (12.1 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
-1 4 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Ice Punch vs. 8 HP / 196 Def Landorus-Therian: 196-232 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hoopa-Unbound @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Psychic
- Rock Tomb


lando get cooked!
these are set comp lando, of course their bad, set comp i dont like, not real sets like no good hands

 

[Aco2PlaysShowdown]

S Rank
Primarina
this looks like an easy matchup for the primarina to win, HOWEVER
1. you first have to run enough spdef to live modest specs beam
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Hyper Beam vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 324-382 (96.1 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
2. not only this, u have to run enough SpA to KO light screen WP chi yu, although that also loses to Encore Turn 1.
Chi-Yu @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Beads of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 112 SpA / 112 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Hyper Beam
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse
mod lo prim after a light screen, jolly scarf gross eq, speed for volcanion / gross, rest in spa
3. However, if you DO use Encore turn 1, u have to live 2 modest specs psychics
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Psychic vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 195-230 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4. Your Hydro Cannon can just miss(?)
Chi-Yu @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Beads of Ruin
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 116 SpA / 112 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Hyper Beam
saves 4 evs, doesnt beat earth power volcanion



S- Rank
Iron Crown
Chi-Yu @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 56 SpA / 172 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Hyper Beam
mod spa booster crown focus blast, def for jolly scarf gross eq, speed for ada gross and also some volcanion



A+ Rank
Corviknight
lol

Hoopa-Unbound
av hoopa wins vs all but idt it beats wp wisp. rest explode to variants of bulky specs etc



Iron Valiant
run chople + 2 fire moves to beat all val i think u lose to subreversal tho unfort

Metagross
good luck



Pecharunt
good luck



Regidrago
idt u beat av or scarf ever but the other sets get giga owned by specs beam


Ursaluna
20% flinch chance from dark pulse good luck
theres also this
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 152 HP / 164 SpD Ursaluna: 475-561 (108.2 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
so i think u need le av ursaluna

A Rank
Goodra-Hisui
some av set prolly wins vs the fish

Landorus-Therian
av bulldoze / rock tomb + eq landot is prolly the most consistent mon vs chi yu, however u have to bulk this
+1 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 244 HP / 72 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-Therian: 352-415 (92.6 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (93.8% chance to OHKO after burn damage)

+ setguess scarf since bulldoze doesnt actually ko 0 invest chi yu

+ u are getting flinched by dark pulse

Meowscarada
scarf chi yu


Ogerpon-Wellspring

Chi-Yu @ Passho Berry
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 212 HP / 168 SpA / 112 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Snarl
- Flame Charge
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse

ada oger wellspring cudgel, -1 steam eruption from mod volcanion into same thing at -2 so u can snarl snarl dark pulse, darkpulse twice vs specs. flame charge for oger. scarf volcanion wins.
- Oh but oger can run superpower! no it cant u still have to setguess Chi-Yu's item which is NOT REVEALED ON PREVIEW UNLIKE IRON CROWN



Raging Bolt
Chi-Yu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 8 SpA / 220 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ruination
- Dark Pulse
- Overheat
bulk tbolt tbolt clap from mod booster raging bolt, def for scarf gross, speed for ada gross, rest in spa. can remove speed if want. vs raging bolt ruination ruination dark pulse. last move can be physical eg flare blitz for like sylveon



Urshifu
Chi-Yu @ Chople Berry
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 28 HP / 248 Def / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse

this is overkill but u outspeed non scarf, click wisp > plot > overheat, bulks 2 ada ccs into sucker after wisp best odds (around 5%)



Volcanion
volcanion first has to live a modspecs beam if they r not scarf to even TRY to beat chi yu:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Hyper Beam vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Volcanion: 395-465 (108.8 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
for more detailed explanation read the ogerpon wellspring point. u also need to beat WP chi yu, which clicks light screen and OHKOS u if u dont OHKO them.


Volcarona
u are speed tie vs timid specs if u are max speed if not modest owns u


too lazy to do rest, important mons that beat chi yu are some wake, av shifurapid

1. Im prim I click endure t1 vs chi yu
2. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Iron Crown Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 172 SpD Chi-Yu: 306-360 (97.7 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO. honestly u could have just idk ran max speed but u decided to pull out bs sets instead so
3. 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Assault Vest Hoopa-Unbound: 133-157 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 48 HP / 16 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 252-297 (80.5 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 192 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 332-392 (132.2 - 156.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Could u win with chople maybe but hoopa should recover enough w drain punch
4. Scarf meow beats scarf shifu, 252+ SpA Choice Specs Protean Meowscarada Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chi-Yu: 270-318 (107.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO should beat others besides maybe bulkier versions but they should drop to giga impact band
5. Chi yu loses to leech seed, 168+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 52 HP / 184 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 261-307 (83.1 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and while u do have snarl u dont do enough with snarl bc you destroyed ur spa with overheat. the only way you beet leech is with scarf which drops to ivy cudgel
6. yeah u win against raging bolt but ur just running a bad set atp
7. im scarf urshifu
8. forgive me bc I dont know what evs ur running but 8 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 109-129 (30 - 35.5%) -- 24.4% chance to 3HKO so u need a screen turn + 3 dark pulse and I just sludge wave t1+t2 and kill with steam t3 (if u give me evs proving me wrong ill delete this point)
9. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. +1 252 HP / 16 SpD Volcarona: 301-355 (80.4 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
bulks after quiver dance and kills due to swarm (+1 64 SpA Life Orb Swarm Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 329-387 (131 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
so you beat 3 of the top mons consistently and the rest can win (without weird sets which u seem to be running at times to counter these) dont seem broken to me

 

[LongRat]

4. Scarf meow beats scarf shifu, 252+ SpA Choice Specs Protean Meowscarada Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chi-Yu: 270-318 (107.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO should beat others besides maybe bulkier versions but they should drop to giga impact band

Scarf Meow is a joke and Specs is borderline unviable

Also most of ur sets that beat Chi-Yu are only one of many. Being funnelled into a couple sets because of one mon is practically the definition of a broken mon.

 

[Aco2PlaysShowdown]

Scarf Meow is a joke and Specs is borderline unviable

Also most of ur sets that beat Chi-Yu are only one of many. Being funnelled into a couple sets because of one mon is practically the definition of a broken mon.

scarf volcanion wins too but I didnt include it

 

[glitched]

1. Im prim I click endure t1 vs chi yu
2. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Iron Crown Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 172 SpD Chi-Yu: 306-360 (97.7 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO. honestly u could have just idk ran max speed but u decided to pull out bs sets instead so
3. 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Assault Vest Hoopa-Unbound: 133-157 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 48 HP / 16 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 252-297 (80.5 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 192 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 332-392 (132.2 - 156.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Could u win with chople maybe but hoopa should recover enough w drain punch
4. Scarf meow beats scarf shifu, 252+ SpA Choice Specs Protean Meowscarada Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chi-Yu: 270-318 (107.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO should beat others besides maybe bulkier versions but they should drop to giga impact band
5. Chi yu loses to leech seed, 168+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 52 HP / 184 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 261-307 (83.1 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and while u do have snarl u dont do enough with snarl bc you destroyed ur spa with overheat. the only way you beet leech is with scarf which drops to ivy cudgel
6. yeah u win against raging bolt but ur just running a bad set atp
7. im scarf urshifu
8. forgive me bc I dont know what evs ur running but 8 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 109-129 (30 - 35.5%) -- 24.4% chance to 3HKO so u need a screen turn + 3 dark pulse and I just sludge wave t1+t2 and kill with steam t3 (if u give me evs proving me wrong ill delete this point)
9. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. +1 252 HP / 16 SpD Volcarona: 301-355 (80.4 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
bulks after quiver dance and kills due to swarm (+1 64 SpA Life Orb Swarm Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 329-387 (131 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
so you beat 3 of the top mons consistently and the rest can win (without weird sets which u seem to be running at times to counter these) dont seem broken to me

enduring vs chi yu is still a 5050 vs specs since they can psychic

imean i assumed that people already knew about maxmax chi yu so i gave examples of non maxmax but ok

pretty sure wisp plot chi yu wins since they have to knock into drain punch to remove ur wp

doesnt that die to spdef specs? its not exactly reliable as a beats all chi yu counter

click flame charge vs ogerpon wellspring

av was more real in flutter meta i agree but its still an example of how far stretched chi yu can be

the set i posted does live a scarf shifu cc and ohko back with overheat

use the wp set above, sludge wave 3x into steam is a 44% chance to ohko

u outspeed the volcarona and kill it

 

[Aco2PlaysShowdown]

enduring vs chi yu is still a 5050 vs specs since they can psychic

imean i assumed that people already knew about maxmax chi yu so i gave examples of non maxmax but ok

pretty sure wisp plot chi yu wins since they have to knock into drain punch to remove ur wp

doesnt that die to spdef specs? its not exactly reliable as a beats all chi yu counter

click flame charge vs ogerpon wellspring

av was more real in flutter meta i agree but its still an example of how far stretched chi yu can be

the set i posted does live a scarf shifu cc and ohko back with overheat

use the wp set above, sludge wave 3x into steam is a 44% chance to ohko

u outspeed the volcarona and kill it

my volcarona is 300 speed, urs is 299
if u psychic I calm mind/hydro cannon
wisp loses to specs, all chi yu lose to spa invest scarf
252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 393-463 (156.5 - 184.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO, u could run 252 hp 252 def to win but atp ur just running a bad set (which as we established w crown does not make smth good)
ok I trailblaze t1 with offensive pon and win
u win against urshifu (the dark one at least) but the opportunity cost is not worth running at all but now u lose to ursaluna which u countered earlier as well as losing to ogerpon (which again u countered earlier) and also losing to things like zapdos (which im pretty sure u beat earlier)

 

[crow crumbs]

This nonsense is being taken way more seriously than it deserves. Aco2’s argument is mainly based on the fact that the council members (who he shaded personally for no reason? like what?) during the ban are no longer on the current council.

Taking a moment to remember that Pokemon is a game played with Pokemon and not Smogon Members, it can be observed that the only major new hurdles for chi-yu are wellspring, raging bolt and probably hoodra. This issue is not even that all of these mons share a lot of checks like hands, max def luna, drago. It’s that they all win the matchup by statchecking chi-yu.

It is still very clear that the traditional ways of blanking strong attackers still fail against chi-yu. There is no way to setup on chi-yu. There is no way stall it out after tricking it. There are very few custap users that can reliably fight back. There is 1 subseeder that can handle most (but not all) chi-yu sets.

You can say that the sets jumping through 6 hoops to beat bolt/pon/prim are bad (and they likely are), but the reason that Chi-Yu is still able to do this against nearly the entire vr is indicative of a deficiency. Almost all of Chi-Yus checks can only give it 1 turn of action at most and they live or die on whether or not their move kos. The counterplay (and counter-counterplay) remains the same despite the passage of time.

Anyway I took the bait like a chump. Let’s go back to real 1v1 now ^_^

 

[Aco2PlaysShowdown]

This nonsense is being taken way more seriously than it deserves. Aco2’s argument is mainly based on the fact that the council members (who he shaded personally for no reason? like what?) during the ban are no longer on the current council.

Taking a moment to remember that Pokemon is a game played with Pokemon and not Smogon Members, it can be observed that the only major new hurdles for chi-yu are wellspring, raging bolt and probably hoodra. This issue is not even that all of these mons share a lot of checks like hands, max def luna, drago. It’s that they all win the matchup by statchecking chi-yu.

It is still very clear that the traditional ways of blanking strong attackers still fail against chi-yu. There is no way to setup on chi-yu. There is no way stall it out after tricking it. There are very few custap users that can reliably fight back. There is 1 subseeder that can handle most (but not all) chi-yu sets.

You can say that the sets jumping through 6 hoops to beat bolt/pon/prim are bad (and they likely are), but the reason that Chi-Yu is still able to do this against nearly the entire vr is indicative of a deficiency. Almost all of Chi-Yus checks can only give it 1 turn of action at most and they live or die on whether or not their move kos. The counterplay (and counter-counterplay) remains the same despite the passage of time.

Anyway I took the bait like a chump. Let’s go back to real 1v1 now ^_^

i didnt diss any members lol I was pointing out how since chi yu has been banned half the council has retired and that we have never thought to retest it. I provided evidence to disprove the claims made my glitched
I didnt even mention (for the most part) the good ground types/ rock types/ fighting types that beat this thing like boulder and a-hisui)